- DalkonCledwin
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Member for 16 years, 6 months, and 14 days
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Mar 11, 2010DalkonCledwin posted a message on Zendikar & Enemy Fetches related Quotesand it would seem I was wrong in that assessment, at least in the long run as they seem to have settled much lower than I initially thoughtPosted in: Dalkon's Central Headquarters
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Jun 22, 2009DalkonCledwin posted a message on Religious Fundamentalism vs. Magic the Gatheringthanks guys, I totally didn't notice that you had posted these until just now. But again thanks a great deal for the supportPosted in: Dalkon's Central Headquarters
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May 22, 2008DalkonCledwin posted a message on SSI is a *****Thanks MamelonPosted in: Dalkon's Central Headquarters
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May 20, 2008DalkonCledwin posted a message on SSI is a *****As an update, I just got word that my SSI benefits are going to be restored to what they originally were, but I am going to have to wait for this until the start of June.Posted in: Dalkon's Central Headquarters
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Except that in actuality there is currently enough resources on the planet to feed all the animals that currently are alive, as well as all of the humans that are currently alive on the planet, and to never have anyone wanting for anything. The fact of the matter is that the only reason scarcity exists is because there are people who want more than they actually need, and as such they are the limiting factor on the environment.
It is purely human Dogma and Doctrine that says that Satan's role has changed. And you are wrong, Judaism still holds that Satan is part of God's Court. It is purely a Christian Construct that Satan has become something that represents Evil in this world, not a Judaic one.
Also, only God knows what Satan's role in all of this happens to be. I am not saying that Demons/Fallen Angels don't exist... I am just saying that I doubt that they exist in the way that we were led to believe that they exist by Christian Doctrine.
I do not condone Murder. I would never be in favor of killing another human being in cold blood. What I am arguing is that the natural process of dying, or dying because of disease, or other natural causes is acceptable because it keeps the population in check.
I do not support the premeditated murder of individuals in anyway.
You are defining Omniscience too narrowly. In your definition there is only one possible path that our decisions can ever take. Thus there is only one Future. I personally however prefer to think of time as a "Timey Wimey Ball". Anyways, in my opinion God can see all possible futures and make informed guesses about what we are going to do based on that, but he doesn't necessarily know for certain what actions we are going to take until after we have taken those actions. Thus we can have free will despite his having Omniscience.
(by the way, that video makes a whole lot more sense when viewed with the other half of the conversation going along side it).
Okay, question for you. If you were part of an organization, any organization, doesn't matter what the goals and aims of that organization happens to be... would you financially support that organization so that the organization could support itself without risking going bankrupt?
That is all that the Church asking for money is really doing in the long run, that and asking for money so that it can provide for it's missionary outreach of course. If it did not have income of any sort, then the church would cease to exist. But I suppose that is what some people really want, for the church to not be able to financially support itself or it's missionary work.
The Song of Songs, also known as the Song of Solomon.
The origins of sacrifice comes from the ancient belief in Pagan Religions (not Christian or Judaic ones) that you could feed the Gods. The reason that the Jews continued burnt sacrifice has more to do with the concept that the Sacrifice was to serve as a stand in for the suffering that they would have to undertake if they were not sacrificing something, due to their sin which separates them from God. Basically the Sacrifice that the Jews were performing was intended to act as a stand in for Jesus who performed the ultimate sacrifice.
You will note that the Jews no longer perform Animal Sacrifice.
As for Tithing, that serves two functions. Neither of these two functions is something that fulfills a goal that is absolutely needed by God himself. These functions are as follows:
1.) It provides a means by which to perform Charity to those less fortunate than the Church. You will notice that many churches also perform Missionary work. This Missionary work does a great deal of good in a great many locations. The fact that they also provide "The Good News" while performing this missionary work is a secondary concern. Afterall, building houses, providing medical care, and various other things to people who don't normally have access to such things is far more important than hearing "The Good News."
2.) It provides the necessary funding to finance the Church's bare minimum financial requirements. Churches may be a Non-Profit Organization, but they still have to pay Electricity Bills, Water Bills, and other Utilities. They still need to buy paper to print their bulletins. They also need to have the money necessary to pay their permanent staff members for their services rendered, as some churches do have full-time staff.
Oh and 3.) They need money to provide for the well being of the Clergy. This is especially important in the case of the Catholic Church where the Clergy is wholly dependent on the Church itself for their livelihood.
That version of Heaven does not do justice to what the actual state of affairs in Heaven will actually be. What that describes is not the role that human souls will have in Heaven, but rather one of the roles that the Choir of Angels currently has. It should be noted that a human soul does not become an Angel upon entering Heaven.
Angels by and large do not have Free Will, except in a few notable instances (namely the highest ranked Angels in the Angelic Court). Thus why would a human soul which has free will suddenly give up that free will upon entering Heaven? That defeats the whole purpose of God creating us in his image in the first place (i.e. creating us with free will).
Also, it is interesting to note, but I have heard romantic love described on many occasions as "Worshiping your lover" in fact there is a book in the Bible that draws this same analogy about the love of God for the Nation of Israel, that it is like the love of a Romantic Partner. In fact said book gets exceedingly graphic and has been heralded as a sexual manual on the same level as the Kama Sutra.
Eh... actually that commandment means that you aren't allowed to Blaspheme the Name of God. Fortunately the Hebrews had a practical policy of never writing down the vowels in the name of God, and also never speaking the name aloud, so it is literally impossible to blaspheme the name of God in the modern age.
Blaspheming the words "Holy Spirit" is way too easy and something that a radical Atheist Group has rallied people to attempt to do en masse, fortunately it is not something you can actually be damned to hell for all eternity, mainly because the concept of the Holy Spirit is a purely Post-Resurrection of Jesus concept. Yes I believe there is a trinity aspect to God, but the concepts of the Holy Spirit as it has come to be indoctrinated in the modern church is not something that existed during or prior to Jesus' life. There are only vague references to the concept known as the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament at best, and even vaguer references to the concept of the Son of God made manifest. So the concept of blaspheming either of these would have been a weird concept in the first century at best. Blaspheming the true name of God however would have been something people would have intrinsically recognized immediately.
Oh and as a side note, Christians worship on Sunday because that is the day Jesus rose from the dead. Traditionally speaking however, the Sabbath Day of Rest is a combination of a Friday and a Saturday. Basically from sundown on Friday until sundown on Saturday. Sundown because the Hebrew day starts at Sundown, not in the morning.
A Miracle can and probably should be defined as a series of events for which there is no current plausible scientific explanation. Thus at the current time it would likely be reasonable to define the story that Northprophet describes as a Miracle. At least until a plausible scientific explanation can be provided. I mean can any of you explain how a person with no cartilage in their hips from the time they were a little kid, suddenly woke up one day and had cartilage in their hips? That defies my understanding of how biology works.
As for the God of Gaps theory, that whole theory hinges upon the assumption that God never intended us to discover the methods he uses to accomplish his miracles. It could be that what science is observing is simply the method of creation and intervention that God chose to use. And that the term "Miracle" is simply an out of date term. Though I can't think of a better term for Creation. Science doesn't really do it justice seeing as how Science is not a term to describe the act of creation so much as it is a term to describe the observation and reproduction of the act of creation.
Rufus, you said it yourself, the Israelites were YWHW's chosen people. He was to be their God. Now he cannot very well fulfill that role for his people if he allows them to worship other deities, now can he? That said however there are some key points in the Ten Commandments that bear scrutiny.
the First Commandment is "You shall have no other gods (Before/Besides) me." The thing about this commandment, is the word for Before or Besides can be translated as either or. If it is translated as Before, it can be taken to mean that YWHW is to be the Chief God in the Israelite Pantheon, much the way that Zeus is the chief God in the Greek Pantheon. If it is however translated as Besides it means that YWHW is to be the ONLY God in the Israelite Pantheon. This translational issue is largely where the confusion stems from. But to make matters worse, the word used for God in many places in the Old Testament is a plural term, not a singular. So the question arises, how many Gods did the early Israelites actually have?
The answer of course is that they were descended from Mesopotamians, and as such were polytheistic, not monotheistic. The God of Abraham, and thus the God of the Israelites is simply the personal God of Abraham's family, El Shaddai. El being a title used to refer to several of the Gods in the Ugaritic Religions of ancient Canaan/Mesopotamia. Shaddai probably being a personal name of said God (though that issue is subject to debate).
Also, the Bible is very clear (at least the New Testament is), you are supposed to question Religious Authority. Jesus himself did it on a regular basis, as did the Apostles. Heck, in the Old Testament the Prophets also questioned Religious Authority quite frequently as well. Though in the Prophets case the Religious Authority they were questioning usually belonged to other religions.
That's complete bull hockey. In the first century A.D. people of common birth were expected to memorize the Old Testament word for word. The entire thing, not just segments, but the whole kit and kaboodle. Even going into the future people regularly memorized the Bible due to the fact that the printing press had yet to be invented. It was not until the printing press was invented that you saw a surge of people ceasing to memorize the Bible in large swaths.
The fact of the matter is that today, people don't know the bible by wrote because of the fact that we have such easy access to the Bible. So the next time you sit there and think to yourself that the common man wasn't meant to read the Bible, you might stop and think to yourself instead that the common man used to take the time to actually memorize the Bible instead.
God in the guise of Jesus also says "Give unto Caesar what is due Caesar." In otherwords, If you tithe using Money made by the Federal Reserve, your wasting your time due to the fact that the money created by the Federal Reserve has ZERO Value other than what the Federal Reserve says its value is. Zeitgeist got a lot of stuff wrong, but it got that much right. Believe me or don't, but I can honestly say that God doesn't care about our money, he cares about us helping those less fortunate than ourselves.
Eh... its complicated. This has been happening ever since Christianity split off from Judaism, but alot of people misinterpret Satan's role (I don't call him Lucifer because Lucifer means the Morning Star and that is actually one of Jesus' titles). Anyways, Satan was at least according to the book of Job (one of the earliest books written in the Old Testament, predating Genesis by a long shot) part of the Court of God. By this I literally mean "Court" as in a Legal system, and not the meaning that is used by a Monarch.
Satan's role in the Court of God was basically the same as a Prosecuting Lawyer's role in a modern day court. It is largely because of what he does to Job that many people see him as Evil, including the Author of Revelation I imagine. However the problem with this interpretation is that Satan had the approval of God to go ahead with the tormenting of Job. The reason he had this approval was so that God could prove Job's faithfulness to him. And it turned out God was right in the long run.
Also, it should be noted that the snake in the Garden of Eden is only identified as Satan by Christians. Neither Islam nor the Jews recognize such an identification. Islam does recognize the snake as a demon or Ifrit (I think) but thats not the same as it being Satan.
No thats not what I am saying at all. I am saying that death is acceptable because it averts the extinction of the human species as a whole. Does that put things in better context for you?
If we hit the population cap its not so much that a few people would die as it is that EVERYONE would die. And quite rapidly as well.
EDIT: I mean can any of you comprehend what would happen to us as a species if Adam and Eve were real. If they were given the ability and knowledge of how to reproduce right at their creation, and if they and all their descendents were actually immortal (but not invulnerable) and they actually choose the option of obeying God instead of listening to the serpent? Eden may have been a paradise on earth, but I highly doubt it was infinite in size the way that Heaven is. In fact the dimensions of Eden are explicitly described in the Bible itself so we know that it was not infinite in size. Thus if Adam and Eve had spawned a race of immortal beings who were not violent by nature... they would overwhelm the ability of Eden to support them, despite it being a paradise.
Are you God? Do you presume to tell God what is and is not a necessary condition of human life and the survival of the human species?
Okay, lets put it this way... scientists to the best of my knowledge currently believe the ultimate carrying capacity for humans on the planet earth is hard capped at around 12 billion people. What that means is if the planet's population ever exceeds 12 billion, that there will not be enough resources on the planet to sustain that number of people for more than a couple of years. Our planet's population is currently sitting somewhere between 6 and 7 billion. This level of population is largely maintained by the fact that deaths are usually about even with births. However if you removed all forms of death from the human species, except for dying of hunger, then the planets population cap would be reached in a manner of a few years.
You realize the story of Adam and Eve is largely a metaphor explaining the relationship of God and Human Sin right?
EDIT: And P.S. I do not believe the painful debilitating diseases are necessarily God's idea. Just because God is the creator and ultimately the one who implements things into creation, does not mean he is the one who comes up with every single idea. He may be all knowing, all powerful and all present, but that doesn't mean he is necessarily the one who comes up with the best torment. And by the way, torment is sometimes the best way to cultivate spiritual growth. Just ask Job.
Except defining Hell as a place in the Cosmology of Christianity where God's presence is withheld is impossible. According to the doctrine of almost every Christian Denomination (except perhaps one or two fringe groups), God is by definition Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Omnipresent. The last one of those, Omnipresence, means that there cannot exist a place where his presence is withheld due to the fact that he is always present, everywhere. Thus you cannot define hell as a place where he is not. Rather hell is defined quite literally by Jesus himself, as a place of Eternal Torment. Jesus does not define it as a place without God's presence, that is a later church made and contradictory definition.
Also while I am on the subject. I define Omnipotence as the ability to do anything that is logically possible, even if it is not possible for a human to do. That is why God can create universes. Because it is logically possible for him to be able to do so. I further define Omniscience as the ability to see all possible futures, presents, and pasts branching out before him, but not to control those futures unless he takes an active role in them via one of his four other abilities (Omnipresence, Omnipotence, Incarnation, or the ability to bestow Prophecy).
With the resources that currently exist on the planet at the current time, it is possible to end world hunger 100%. Similarly it is likely that somewhere on the planet there is a cure to most diseases, and the ones we can't find a cure for, are diseases that we need in place in order to maintain some level of population control so that we don't overwhelm the food supply.
The problem is that there is a large segment of society who believes it is their god given right to have more wealth, food, and medical care than the vast majority of the worlds population. As such it is unlikely that we will ever see a situation where in humankind is willing to bring about a conclusion to the suffering of their fellow man.
As far as natural disasters, old age, and other causes of suffering that food, monetary, and medical resources cannot solve... those are a necessary evil. Natural Disasters serve a necessary role in our planets functions and while they may cause devastation, it would be far worse for the planet as a whole if they did not occur. Old Age is the ultimate limiting factor on the planets population cap, and without it we would eat our food supplies out of existence causing even more starvation than currently exists, not to mention what it would do to truly non-renewable resources. There are other factors as well, but ultimately some suffering is necessary for the survival of our species as well as all the other species on the planet.
You um... do realize that Sin is an entity itself, as well as a behavioral concept? Sin was a Mesopotamian God, and I believe that the ancient Jews (pre-Moses period) ascribed many of the same traits to Sin that modern Christians ascribe to Satan (who ironically is technically God's right hand Angel and is the one who serves as Prosecuting Attorney in the Heavenly Court, at least according to one of the earliest books of the Old Testament to be written).
So when you say we are being punished for Adam and Eve's sin, are you saying we are being punished for their behavior? Or for their worship of an ancient Mesopotamian God? In either case it would be near treachery to the Judeo-Christian God for what Adam and Eve allegedly did. They disobeyed God's one and only (at the time) commandment, that in and of itself is treachery and worthy of being cast out of paradise. Unfortunately the Ancient Jews believed in a generational punishment system for certain transgressions, and disobeying Gods most important (only) commandment would be the biggest transgression you could accumulate worthy of the biggest punishment ever.
These questions are asked far too frequently in my opinion without anyone ever actually bothering to look at the issue from God's point of view instead of the human point of view. The reason God allows us to suffer, die of old age, die of starvation, be plagued by disease, and all manner of other things is simply because he understands that if he did not allow these things, the human species as a whole would destroy this planet in a single century. There are not enough renewable food resources on this planet to feed all the humans who would be born over the course of a century or longer if there was no possibility of death at all. Thus without people dying to allow resources to renew themselves, the population cap of this planet would be reached in a very short time, and then we would starve ourselves off the face of the planet and suffer a far more painful death as a species than the deaths we currently suffer on an individual basis.
That is also a really good comparison, I like that.
While the comparison to a human father is valid, God is the divine father so he has a different role to what we have. Additionally it is not just God and the heavenly court who plays a hand in mortal affairs. You also have the demonic realm, or rather Satan and his host. According to the book of Job, it was not God who persecuted Job throughout that entire book, but rather it was Satan himself, though God explicitly allowed Satan to persecute Job. God allowed this persecution in order to prove Job's loyalty to God. And God explicitly told Satan he could do his worst to Job. Ironically, alot of the stuff that happened to Job, is far worse than stuff that happens in the normal human beings life by comparison. If you think you have it rough, read Job.
The point being that it is generally the assumption (at least it is the assumption by most people I know) that suffering is caused by Satan, but allowed by God. And it is usually the case that suffering is allowed for the express purpose of bringing an individual closer to God.
Of course, there are instances where people choose the path that would lead them into suffering of their own free will. In which case it has absolutely nothing to do with either Satan or God that the individual in question choose that suffering.
P.S. Please note, I am reading this thread, and replying to it, from the beginning. If this does not jive with some of you, then I apologize. Feel free to ignore my replies in such case. But I am replying to this just to get my replies into the open all the same.
Also there is the fact that the Heavens Mystery Oracle can be just down right annoyingly OP as a friend of mine once pointed out to me (though I am not certain I want to invest everything that is necessary in order to invest into the character to make it OP).
with 20 points to purchase. Ability scores can't be dropped below 7 or raised above 18 prior to racial bonuses.
Also, that website has the rules to pretty much every book in the game, even some fan made stuff on it.
Class options for a divine spellcaster include the Cleric, Oracle, Paladin, and Inquisitor. I would prefer an Oracle or a Cleric due to the two of them being straight up Divine Casters, while the other two are partially warriors.
The Core Rulebook and Advanced Players Guide are both allowed in their entirety, certain aspects of Ultimate Combat, and Ultimate Magic are forbidden (such as Words of Power and Spellblight). The Custom Race rules from the Advanced Race guide are out of bounds, however most of the race modifications to existing races are allowed within reason.
Any help coming up with a character would be appreciated.