I have a hard time believing that this card is any good. Not only is it slow and mana intensive, but it can be bounced up before it's activation by decks in particular, so I don't see how it helps against :symu::symw::symr: .
re your 60, here's my humble thoughts: I'm huge a fan of trickbind these days--stops all kinds of silly things like kitchen finks (target the persist ability), kiki-jiki, mirrorbreaker (stop the first copy), eldrazi abilities, etc. i'd def. squeeze it into your board.
i prefer thoughtseize over inquisition of kozilek b/c there are way too many bombs over 3cc floating around--basically the same idea is given in the channel fireball article linked in the spoiler, and i think it still holds. i know they're $$, but if you have 'em, run 'em.
i like teferi personally, but i think that's more a proclivity than a well-reasoned choice... but if you protect him for one turn, you're usually winning. enabling EoT wurmcoil engine or banselayer angel is can be enough.
your other best option would be gifts ungiven. mystical teachings has it's advantages over gifts and vice versa--the decks you build around each are v. different...
i'd really like to see people's ideas on an updated, tight mono u list. i built and tried out u/w, but i have to say it was clunky--even with fetches. off the cuff, my mono u would look something like...
I'm not so happy w/ the twosies, except for reejery--2 seems fine. tempted to fit in kira's somewhere. thoughts on cursecatcher these days? the SB is totally thrown together here--does it leave any massive holes?
idk if there's a "standard" list for this archetype--it's gotten quiet in here
see the OP in the primer for two v. good lists to work from.
as far as bringing this deck to a large event, one of the main adv. of this archetype is that it doesn't require 8 fetches... or even 4 fetches.
another is that it's fairly rogue--not many decks build expecting it. the decks that it annhilates (eg rdw) pretty much have to ignore or else dedicate their whole SB to having some kind of game against it. Since that's hardly worth it, w lifegain get's ignored.
as far as +s, you eat aggro's babies, which is good for most local level stuff (even states). against tron/pod/twin or anything that has a powerful finish, tho, you are going to have trouble and will need to build your sideboard w/ such archetypes in mind. such decks don't care if you are at 4 life or 40 life when they go off--they just own face.
control decks can also give u trouble but aren't nearly as bad. last but not least, bogle is devlish pre-board, b/c there poison counters matter not life. everything else, tho, you're ok.
been here for years and no sick siggy of my own i thought i'd ask if you'd be into helping me out. happy to recompense somehow
i play a lot of esper, so was thinking about thoughtseize+pact of negation+supreme verdict. overlaying The Dude would be icing. For text, I thought "This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand."
--another idea might be to just insert The Dude standing off to the side (left), looking at everything. i think i like this idea better, but see what you think. here's an image that would work for that: http://imgur.com/qk6pgWh , altho you'll need to black out/crop the letters at the bottom right.
imho, w/ the exception of vault of the archangel, i don't see how the black splash helps with those particular cards. zealous persecution always worked better in tokens.dec, esp. as a SB card for the mirror. the other cards have relevant effects, but you can get the similar effects from or colorless cards. e.g. chalice of life doesn't exactly replicate the vizkopa guildmage trick, but it does turn your lifegain into a tool for their life loss. orzhov charm is a decent utility card, but again you get the relevant pieces of its effects elsewhere (e.g. from emeria, the sky ruin, proclamation of rebirth; path to exile).
the consistency of the manabase combined with the power of martyr of sands activations with a grip of makes this deck fly. for me, i can see the orzhov splash being fun and working well enough, but my sense is that if you want to play those colors then you probably ought to build without the martyr/proc interaction.
thanks for the ups, mastodon. one question i have is: how much graveyard hate is needed? it's a noticeable hole in my build, imo. has anyone tried crypt incursion? or is there something better? instant speed, gains life, and gets the job done--seems pretty sweet to me
Not sure how to comment if we're talking budget decks, but certainly can say that while timely reinforcements is sweet, it's a sorcery and thus can't be tutored :/ an (inexpensive) alternative to consider is rest for the weary--it doesn't get you a team on the board, but it does gain more life and is tutorable.
BTW, in the spirit of getting the thread moving again/commenting on the last post, here's my current build:
61 cards is not a sin, especially in a tutoring deck like this. The extra utility you get greatly outweighs the downsides.
In this meta, I still like the logic of going for the opps hand and removing anything that resolves as necessary. Fetches+seizes MD hurt, so my lifegain suite is necessary.
Far/away is highly versatile and gives you a solid answer to an early Geist of Saint Traft or Slippery Bogle. Casting it fused is good times...
Everything else MD is fairly standard, I think. I never run out of uses for Trickbind--helps against all kinds of combo, tron, etc. Diving Deflection is something I'm trying out; and the rest is probably familiar enough.
well if you have the other four you are way ahead of most people i know.....
its painful now trading for them. since everyone is waiting on them to spike.
Over the past 2 weeks, I have personally contacted near every trader on MTGS showing misty rainforest in their haves and managed to get only one trade (for 2x + stuff) done so far (but that involved [CARD]Polluted Delta[CARD]). I have one "maybe" and lots of "no"--it's insanely difficult to trade for these ATM. Price will definitely head north. I wouldn't be surprised to see fetches that get come to rough parity over time...
the white lifegain MU just looks horrible. is it even worth dedicating slots in the SB to it? you either win very fast or just scoop. like, an early martyr activation for 3 wh cards is basically back to turn 1.
in short, even if you dedicated your entire SB to the MU (try it), I still think you lose most of the time. fwiw, if you wanted to try and fight through a line of wh lifegain decks, here's my off-the-cuff crack at a SB that brings the hate against wh lifegain (my humble current build is in the spoiler below):
as always, my sample is small, but after playing some games against wh lifegain i'd rather concede that MU than push my board to look like this. i'd take solace in knowing that wh lifegain is a small part of most metas.
I have a hard time believing that this card is any good. Not only is it slow and mana intensive, but it can be bounced up before it's activation by decks in particular, so I don't see how it helps against :symu::symw::symr: .
i prefer thoughtseize over inquisition of kozilek b/c there are way too many bombs over 3cc floating around--basically the same idea is given in the channel fireball article linked in the spoiler, and i think it still holds. i know they're $$, but if you have 'em, run 'em.
why 3xstony silence?
i like teferi personally, but i think that's more a proclivity than a well-reasoned choice... but if you protect him for one turn, you're usually winning. enabling EoT wurmcoil engine or banselayer angel is can be enough.
4 arid mesa
4 scalding tarn
4 blackcleave cliffs
3 mountain
2 blood crypt
1 sacred foundry
1 stomping ground
creatures 13
4 goblin guide
4 vexing devil
3 deathrite shaman
2 grim lavamancer
4 lightning bolt
4 lava spike
4 rift bolt
4 bump in the night
4 boros charm
3 skullcrack
2 lightning helix
2 searing blaze
1 shard volley
4 ensnaring bridge
3 volcanic fallout
3 smash to smithereens
3 rakdos charm
2 torpor orb
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Silvergill Adept
3 Cursecatcher
2 Cosi's Trickster
2 Coralhelm Commander
2 Merrow Reejery
2 Phantasmal Image
4 Spreading Seas
3 Echoing Truth
4 Remand
4 Aether Vial
Land 22
4 Mutuvault
18 Island
4 Pithing Needle
3 Torpor Orb
3 Threads of Disloyalty
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Dragon's Claw
I'm not so happy w/ the twosies, except for reejery--2 seems fine. tempted to fit in kira's somewhere. thoughts on cursecatcher these days? the SB is totally thrown together here--does it leave any massive holes?
thanks in advance for good resposnes
idk if there's a "standard" list for this archetype--it's gotten quiet in here
see the OP in the primer for two v. good lists to work from.
as far as bringing this deck to a large event, one of the main adv. of this archetype is that it doesn't require 8 fetches... or even 4 fetches.
another is that it's fairly rogue--not many decks build expecting it. the decks that it annhilates (eg rdw) pretty much have to ignore or else dedicate their whole SB to having some kind of game against it. Since that's hardly worth it, w lifegain get's ignored.
as far as +s, you eat aggro's babies, which is good for most local level stuff (even states). against tron/pod/twin or anything that has a powerful finish, tho, you are going to have trouble and will need to build your sideboard w/ such archetypes in mind. such decks don't care if you are at 4 life or 40 life when they go off--they just own face.
control decks can also give u trouble but aren't nearly as bad. last but not least, bogle is devlish pre-board, b/c there poison counters matter not life. everything else, tho, you're ok.
hope this helps.
also, here's a cropped version: http://imgur.com/kdKJEXs
tx again
dig your sigs
been here for years and no sick siggy of my own i thought i'd ask if you'd be into helping me out. happy to recompense somehow
i play a lot of esper, so was thinking about thoughtseize+pact of negation+supreme verdict. overlaying The Dude would be icing. For text, I thought "This will not stand, ya know, this aggression will not stand."
If you're interested in the project, here are some images to work with:
cards:
http://imgur.com/6SuKdaJ
http://imgur.com/tI8tjn8
http://imgur.com/N6j0Mlw
dude:
--one idea might be to run the eyes under or over the spread of the card images. this pic might be good for that: http://shpintv.com/images/2013/03/The-Big-Lebowski-Wallpaper-HD.jpg
--another idea might be to just insert The Dude standing off to the side (left), looking at everything. i think i like this idea better, but see what you think. here's an image that would work for that: http://imgur.com/qk6pgWh , altho you'll need to black out/crop the letters at the bottom right.
tx
the consistency of the manabase combined with the power of martyr of sands activations with a grip of makes this deck fly. for me, i can see the orzhov splash being fun and working well enough, but my sense is that if you want to play those colors then you probably ought to build without the martyr/proc interaction.
if you really want to go :symw::symb:, play thoughtseize and perhaps some inquisition of kozilek. besides dark confidant, these are the best cards in modern right now. since you seem to like lingering souls and zealous persecution, i'd read the W(x) tokens primer here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=384892 and check out Melissa DeTora's GP Toronto top 8 from 2012.
hope this helps
BTW, in the spirit of getting the thread moving again/commenting on the last post, here's my current build:
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Marsh Flats
4 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Celestial Colonnade
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
1 Calciform Pools
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Swamp
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1 Island
1 Plains
1 River of Tears
Creatures 5
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Baneslayer Angel
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Mystical Teachings
4 Path to Exile
3 Cryptic Command
3 Esper Charm
1 Consume the Meek
1 Extirpate
1 Far/Away
1 Go for the Throat
1 Rest for the Weary
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 White Sun’s Zenith
Sorceries 10
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Trickbind
1 Pact of Negation
1 Spell Snare
1 Celestial Purge
1 Divine Deflection
1 Negate
1 Essence Scatter
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Dissipate
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Disenchant
1 Silence
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Dispel
Some notes:
61 cards is not a sin, especially in a tutoring deck like this. The extra utility you get greatly outweighs the downsides.
In this meta, I still like the logic of going for the opps hand and removing anything that resolves as necessary. Fetches+seizes MD hurt, so my lifegain suite is necessary.
Far/away is highly versatile and gives you a solid answer to an early Geist of Saint Traft or Slippery Bogle. Casting it fused is good times...
I don't know why I see so little Extirpate in this archetype. It's much better than surgical extraction...
Everything else MD is fairly standard, I think. I never run out of uses for Trickbind--helps against all kinds of combo, tron, etc. Diving Deflection is something I'm trying out; and the rest is probably familiar enough.
Over the past 2 weeks, I have personally contacted near every trader on MTGS showing misty rainforest in their haves and managed to get only one trade (for 2x + stuff) done so far (but that involved [CARD]Polluted Delta[CARD]). I have one "maybe" and lots of "no"--it's insanely difficult to trade for these ATM. Price will definitely head north. I wouldn't be surprised to see fetches that get come to rough parity over time...
rain of gore can shut them down for a while, but it can also meet an oblivion ring. you can hide/seek or keening apparition (or war priest of thune) their leyline of sanctity or o-rings all you want, but the fact is that their entire deck is an answer to the burn strategy.
in short, even if you dedicated your entire SB to the MU (try it), I still think you lose most of the time. fwiw, if you wanted to try and fight through a line of wh lifegain decks, here's my off-the-cuff crack at a SB that brings the hate against wh lifegain (my humble current build is in the spoiler below):
4 Pithing Needle (for martyrs and elspeths)
4 Rain of Gore
3 Keening Apparition
3 Hide/Seek
3 Flames of the Bloodhand might also find their way in here...
as always, my sample is small, but after playing some games against wh lifegain i'd rather concede that MU than push my board to look like this. i'd take solace in knowing that wh lifegain is a small part of most metas.
4 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Mountain
2 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Stomping Ground
Creatures 12
4 Goblin Guide
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Vexing Devil
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Bump in the Night
4 Boros Charm
3 Skullcrack
3 Lightning Helix
2 Searing Blaze
2 Shard Volley
3 Rakdos Charm
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Volcanic Fallout
2 Torpor Orb
2 Molten Rain
If you read this far, I'd appreciate your thoughts