@spastika, I don't think that Aspasia was saying that Goblin Chieftain would protect Kiki, merely that he was an easy way to allow Grenzo to get Conscripts into play (does not require a sac outlet).
This stack wins the same turn you cast Doomsday and costs a total of 5 mana, it fails to instant speed removal on Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. I think protecting Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is not critical since they can just kill Grenzo in response to Doomsday anyways, meaning we are already vulnerable before Doomsday resolves.
What about Siege-Gang Commander as your infinite mana win condition, cutting Rakdos Guildmage?
Not running Sign in Blood is a mistake imo. It's extremely good on turn 2 and turn 20, saying you don't have room for it is like saying you don't have room for Ponder.
Is Rain of Filth necessary? Unlike Dark Ritual you don't want to use it outside of the combo turn making it a dead card most of the time.
A big thumbs up to the changes overall. I'm really fine with this format taking cues from the Legacy ban list. Cards that are proven degenerate in an eternal format, if anything, are more evidently ridiculous when they so randomly appear to ruin singleton games. I hope that Demonic Tutor, Mystical Tutor, Skullclamp, Earthcraft, and Survival of the Fittest get swept away in the next update. #shotsfired
Very interesting ideas there Riley. I can't say I would be against those getting banned, with a close look at the other effects banning those cards would have of course.
Cruz, I love what you're doing in the Philippines. Keep up the good work.
3rd this.
It's crazy to me to see this little format grow so fast. I remember when you were lucky to find 1 match firing on cockatrice at any given time. I knew every player online by name. Now its rare to see less than 4 matches at any given time, and we have tournament reports from around the globe...
Exactly one day after this very Primer thread went up, someone posted this Sisay list on Tapped Out, using the same title as the Primer here. Coincidence? Perhaps all Sisay players are huge perverts. From the description: "One day, Jasmine Boreal and Captain Sisay were having hot lesbian sex, when Captain Sisay decided to host a pool party for all her super sexy friends. Chainmail bikinis optional."
Ahahaha wtf.
In other news, I'm currently 3-2 in the Salvation tourney and will be battling it out in the play-offs between two others for the final top 8 spot. I'm so bored of this version of the deck though, haha. I want my Cavern of Souls and better overall land base! Not to mention Sigarda. It's funny... Sigarda may have actually won me a game in my last tourney match where Primeval Titan was, y'know, able to be spot-removed. Siiigh.
It's kind of ironic how quite frequently at 31 lands mana flooding is still an issue huh?
What I notice in particular with your list is that you lack many of the essential creatures/card advantage effects that give the deck more reach, namely:
Sage of Epityr
Fierce Empath
Kozilek
Eye of Ugin
Coiling Oracle
Raven Famliar
Sea Gate Oracle
Augury Owl
Owl Familiar
Sylvan Ranger
Phantasmal Image
Fathom Seer
Gush
Chord of Calling
Shared Discovery
Glimpse of Nature
Green Sun's Zenith
Sylvan Tutor
You basically just gutted the deck of all the cards that keep the cogs spinning, which in return makes a lot of matches harder. Burn is a manageable and quite favorable matchup, despite Animar being largely side-lined. They simply have very little to deal with Primeval Titan, among others. Being as the prime strategy against Edric is to do a reverse combo and force them into a draw-go state, the biggest tech cards are things like Rofellos, Gaea's Herald, Orc Lumberjack, Bloom Tender, and Earthcraft that all shut down counter spell time walks. Likewise, 1 mana anti-counter cards are also very strong.
Some examples:
Flusterstorm
Daze
Spell Pierce
Misdirection
Divert
On a side note, Gitaxian Probe has been completely insane. Give it a try.
Also, Phantasmal Image kills Edric, among other generals and is obscenely synergistic. It's just really good.
Anyway, my main advice, if anything, is to test various tech/control cards, but maybe in more moderation, and certainly not by tossing away all the cantrips. There's probably around ~25 flexible slots, of which only maybe 7 are truly open.
In my testing, I've always found Green Sun Zenith to be fairly low impact. How do you use it?
People asking these questions should read the whole thread fyi, I answered all these questions last year. To summarize:
Trickbind does not stop a Necrotic Ooze in play with a Devoted Druid and Moarselhoarder in the grave yard (you read that correctly, you DO NOT NEED Shivan Helkite in the graveyard, if you don't understand why read the thread).
The only card in mtg (that I can think of atm) that can stop Necrotic Ooze in play with a Devoted Druid and Moarselhoarder in the grave yard is Time Stop.
Having your combo not die to Stifle or Trickbind once Necrotic Ooze is in play IS RELEVENT because Buried Alive + Reanimate or Survival chain into Ooze is a common line of play.
Are we all forgetting that Necrotic Ooze in play with Kiki and Fanatic in the yard doesn't actually work?!? Necrotic Ooze does not gain haste from Kiki, meaning your forgetting Anger, meaning you don't save on deck space. (unless you judge anger good enough to run anyways, but then you cant assemble your combo with buried alive yadda yadda yadda, we went over this a year ago, or was it two years ago?)
I am liking this stack:
Top:
This stack wins the same turn you cast Doomsday and costs a total of 5 mana, it fails to instant speed removal on Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker. I think protecting Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is not critical since they can just kill Grenzo in response to Doomsday anyways, meaning we are already vulnerable before Doomsday resolves.
If that doesn't prove to be true, then this stack can protect Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker:
Top:
This stack also wins for 5 mana and protects Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker.
Not running Sign in Blood is a mistake imo. It's extremely good on turn 2 and turn 20, saying you don't have room for it is like saying you don't have room for Ponder.
Is Rain of Filth necessary? Unlike Dark Ritual you don't want to use it outside of the combo turn making it a dead card most of the time.
Very well said Emether, very well said indeed.
Very interesting ideas there Riley. I can't say I would be against those getting banned, with a close look at the other effects banning those cards would have of course.
3rd this.
It's crazy to me to see this little format grow so fast. I remember when you were lucky to find 1 match firing on cockatrice at any given time. I knew every player online by name. Now its rare to see less than 4 matches at any given time, and we have tournament reports from around the globe...
As a big fan of this deck, 3rd this!
Edit: musing over casting eldrazi multiple times got me to thinking...
Going to test the following additions when I get a chance:
Tradewind Rider
Wizard Mentor
Lightning Mauler
Scryb Ranger
Hoverguard Sweepers
Organization by committee, while often attempted with good intentions, is alot harder to manage than a smaller group in direct communication.
Keep up the good work French rules comity!
Was that discussion not in this thread? Could have sworn it was, woops my bad.
I always assumed it was you...
In my testing, I've always found Green Sun Zenith to be fairly low impact. How do you use it?
Trickbind does not stop a Necrotic Ooze in play with a Devoted Druid and Moarselhoarder in the grave yard (you read that correctly, you DO NOT NEED Shivan Helkite in the graveyard, if you don't understand why read the thread).
The only card in mtg (that I can think of atm) that can stop Necrotic Ooze in play with a Devoted Druid and Moarselhoarder in the grave yard is Time Stop.
Having your combo not die to Stifle or Trickbind once Necrotic Ooze is in play IS RELEVENT because Buried Alive + Reanimate or Survival chain into Ooze is a common line of play.
Are we all forgetting that Necrotic Ooze in play with Kiki and Fanatic in the yard doesn't actually work?!? Necrotic Ooze does not gain haste from Kiki, meaning your forgetting Anger, meaning you don't save on deck space. (unless you judge anger good enough to run anyways, but then you cant assemble your combo with buried alive yadda yadda yadda, we went over this a year ago, or was it two years ago?)