Hello guys,
I'm trying to find a card that allows me to return a land I control into my hand.
(In order to put the land back into play, Cavern of Souls, Mosswort Bridge, ...)
But the card has to be great regardless of this effect. Like a Meloku The Clouded Mirror in blue.
Cloudstone Curio will let you return a land to your hand and can be useful for recasting creatures either for their ETB triggers or just to get more Karametra triggers. It also helps if you're running a lot of enchantress effects.
I'm also looking for a good life gain card, I have Trostani on my list (but you have to play other creatures during the same turn) also populate is not useful in my deck, maybe Resolute Archangel which triggers immediately but is far more exepensive.
This is my own take on Atraxa, Praetors' Voice. I'm staying away from infect as a primary theme and avoiding a superfriends build because everyone is doing that. I'm thinking about brewing an infect build, but I wanted to try this first. This is mostly a good stuff deck that tries to get a benefit from Atraxa's proliferate, buffs her, or is just a good card on its own.
That's cool, combo decks are much better at dealing with a lot of opponents. Commander damage type of decks can still get there in multiplayer, but they tend to do better with 7-ish attack power, low reliance on other cards, and a fair amount of control (i.e. Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund, Thraximundar, or Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon). Haste is always a plus.
Rafiq is a little less intimidating when people know you didn't build your strategy around him, but swinging for 8 each time will still force some much needed removal to target him. I had him in a five color deck where I managed to hit someone three times with him before they had removal. They were not happy.
As for the interesting cards since Khans of Tarkir:
Dragons of Tarkir Collected Company obviously this is a good card, but needs testing here to prove its usefulness since we only have roughly 22 creatures. Display of Dominance budget option for removal/counter to blue/black hate. Dromoka's Command could be decent depending on your meta. Epic Confrontation budget pump that can double as removal. Glaring Aegis budget pump that can get a blocker out of the way. Ojutai Exemplars slow, budget option to make all of your noncreature spells double as a way to tap down blockers, its a decent threat as a blocker if you suddenly give it first strike + lifelink, and if they try to remove it you can blink it with any noncreature spell. Ojutai's Command actually seems decent. It's versatile and it can potentially get you two infectors back from the graveyard.
Magic Origins Grasp of the Hieromancer budget option to repeatedly tap a blocker. Psychic Rebuttal could be useful in some cases to counter removal and/or turn it back on your opponent's creature. Send to Sleep budget option to tap down two blockers. Whirler Rogue budget option to repeatedly provide an unblockable buff.
Battle for Zendikar Swell of Growth the only decent card from this set that I could find for this type of deck.
Oath of the Gatewatch Reflector Mage decent option to get a problematic creature off the board for a couple of turns. Slip Through Space unblockable + cantrip for 1 mana. Void Grafter is a budget option for a way to counter a spell that targets one infect creature and provides you a 2/4 blocker.
Shadows over Innistrad Corrupted Grafstone budget acceleration, but needs something in the graveyard to work. Declaration in Stone solid removal, great against tokens. Eerie Interlude save your dudes. Ghostly Wings budget aura that pumps + flying and you can discard a card to return your infect creature to your hand. Gryff's Boon budget aura that pumps + flying and you can recur it from the graveyard. Haunted Cloak decent set of abilities to add to a creature, but no pumps. Open the Armory is a solid tutor that I'd strongly consider running in any Rafiq deck (infect or not). Rabid Bite again budget removal. Combined with a pump spell this can even help your infector get rid of an indestructible creature. Skeleton Key skulk is a decent effect, and it can help you ditch useless cards when the creature hits your opponent.
I probably have not played this deck since my last post which was in 2014. This deck will most likely struggle in a meta of 4 to 5 free-for-all as opposed to 1v1 or a 3-man free-for-all. You will often be seen as a big threat because you can one-shot people out of the blue so as soon as you do anything relevant or threatening you will likely have all the removel, counterspells, and board wipes being used on you. If you're not hated off the table the next problem you face is running out of gas because you will likely have your threats dealt with quickly. If you hold back playing threats without some haste enablers then you give other players more time to setup their defenses. You can try to hold back on the killing spree to see if other players will start fighting each other first.
I'm not saying its impossible for you to win a 4 or 5 player game with infect Rafiq, but if you're opponents know what they're in for it is an uphill battle for you.
Would you like me to look over the current sets to provide my thoughts on potentially useful new cards?
The current form of my Rafiq deck is meant more for your meta, but it doesn't really focus on infect and it isn't fine tuned. I just sort of threw together a deck that was full of Bant cards that I liked. I haven't been playing as much EDH as I used to even though I still love the format. If you'd like to try a multiplayer build of Rafiq then I'd recommend looking at Swift2210's build: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/217213-edh-rafiq-of-the-many
For a lot of solid reviewing of Deck Boxes, Sleeves, 9-pocket binders, 4-pocket portfolios, the new 12-pocket portfolios, and other cool videos about Magic the Gathering I'd recommend checking out the YouTube channel: Tolarian Community College
His most recent video on deck boxes features a premium made deck box that looks like Ratchet Bomb, and in the video before this one he showed off a Zendikar Hedron deck box. I believe some of his favorite deck box recommendations for a reasonable price are the Ultimate Guard Flip'N'Tray, the Ultimate Guard Monolith, and the Ultra Pro Satin Tower.
Here is his latest video which also features a leaderboard at the end where he lists the grading he has provided from past deck box reviews: https://youtu.be/vWGReq91Y6I
I highly recommend watching some of his videos as he provides a fair and thorough review of many of these different products.
Check out rule 202.3b http://magiccards.info/rule/202-mana-cost-and-color.html#rule-202-3-b
The CMC is not 6 until the spell is on the stack. Just like when you cast an X spell. X is treated as 0 until you've paid some amount of mana for X which changes the spell's CMC on the stack.
OMG this stuff is confusing. So yea what I said in the first place. Even the link to mtgsalvation's gamepedia for Fuse rulings mentions the following: In every zone except the stack, split cards have two sets of characteristics and two converted mana costs. If anything needs information about a split card not on the stack, it will get two values. For example, if a player reveals Dirty (Down/Dirty) due to Duskmantle Seer's ability ("At the beginning of your upkeep, each player reveals the top card of his or her library, loses life equal to that card's converted mana cost, then puts it into his or her hand."), the game will see its converted mana cost as 4 and 3. This translates to that player losing a total of 7 life.
PtaQ, did you mean to say that you think he doesn't need Maelstrom Pulse in the main? Because he has it listed right above Council's Judgment in the main. So he is already playing judgment.
Novajoe, you could probably cut one or two lands, since 19 is a bit much. I think 17 or 18 is plenty since you're also running 3 mana dorks. I also agree with PtaQ that Liliana would be nice to have in the main instead of the SB. I like the Engineered Plague you have in the SB especially for the Elves match. A couple more cards to consider for dealing with elves or tokens are Golgari Charm and/or Zealous Persecution. More ways to give -1/-1 without targeting can also help deal with True-Name Nemesis.
I just realized that I have yet to see any TL Abzan list running Ready // Willing in the main or SB. Maybe some people do not see it as being legal, or is 6 mana just too much to be worthwhile? From what I found about its CMC on the official FAQ: http://tinyleaders.blogspot.com/2014/12/frequently-asked-questions.html is that the card is legal in TL. So why isn't this card being suggested or used more?
The most I've spent on a single card is probably a judge foil Flooded Strand or a Grim Tutor. Which will probably get topped by a foil Force of Will whenever I get around to buying one. Most expensive card I own is a foil Gaea's Cradle.
The most I've spent on a deck... I've been working on collecting foils for a Rafiq deck. I'm missing roughly 11 foils and among those are 5 fetch lands, 1 filter land, a brainstorm, a daze, a force of will, a wasteland, and a sword of feast and famine. So roughly another $1800 to go...
Edit: Current value for what I've got in the Rafiq list so far is about $4,400. So if I ever finish it that will bring it to about $6,200 not including inflation of future card values. Sometimes I worry about how much time and money I've invested into Magic the Gathering.
I noticed Zavros_1's Yisan list for 1v1 and thought that it may be worth a shot in Tiny Leaders. It should at the very least be fun to try out. I'm not sure if the list really has enough threats though or decent removal, but this is my first attempt at it. Comments and suggestions are welcome.
This is an interesting deck list that seems way better for multiplayer games. I may just sleeve it up. I have yet to play a game of Tiny Leaders, but I've already thrown together a good stuff Anafenza list so this will probably be a fun alternative.
The only thing that I can think to mention as a slight improvement is to swap out Silence for Orim's Chant which you can get for under $10, but like I said it is only a slight improvement. At the very least it gives you another option.
I know you already removed Nourish from your original sideboard, but the alternative that I would've suggested in its place that still provides some life gain and blockers is Timely Reinforcements. Who knows the extra bodies on the board could be useful with Ashnod's Altar and Intruder Alarm triggers to get some extra taps out of your utility creatures.
Sorry I haven't been on MTGS much lately. As for updates I have yet to test anything, but I'll list the cards that have potential.
Khans has brought us: Become Immense Dig Through Time Savage Punch (okay removal when combined with a pump spell, and if done this way it doubles as a pump) Stubborn Denial (situational, but I'd probably just run Spell Pierce instead) Treasure Cruise (steep delve, but worth it if the game is going long enough for you to have that many fetches and spells in your graveyard) Ghostfire Blade (budget option to equip to our artifact infectors)
M15 has: Ajani Steadfast Ensoul Artifact (great way to turn some of the small artifact infectors into 5/5s) Helliod's Pilgrim (budget option to grab a good aura) Hushwing Gryff Life's Legacy (if you know it's going to die next turn or something you can sac it second main phase to draw some cards) Oppressive Rays (budget way to screw with your opponent's blocker or utility creature) Return to the Ranks (okay way to reanimate multiple infect and/or utility creatures) Voidsnare (budget option to get a problem off the board)
Personally, I use Ultra-Pros. They do split every now and again, but they're also widely available and shuffle easily. I use Deckbuilder Toolkits with toploaded Commanders as dividers to keep my decks in.
This is a bit off-topic, but would anyone like to see a thread like this but for life counters? There's some really neat ones I think would be worth sharing with the community.
KMC Hyper Mattes may not be widely available at your local shops, but they're worth waiting a few days for them to ship from whichever online store you order from that carries them.
As for the bit about life-counters, I've been debating if I should expand this thread to other Magic accessories. The next accessory that I was thinking of adding was playmats since I have tried several, but I'm not sure there is much to say about them other than the quality difference between a few brands and then all of the anime playmats that come from Asia. Life counters would probably be a better topic to add, but I do not wish to steal your idea.
Also I'll admit I haven't been very diligent in updating the first post of this thread since I got my first salary job :). I would probably be more inclined to modify and update it if I could simply code the post in HTML/CSS of my own. Being limited to short-code with predefined settings feels limiting, but I try to make the best of it. I'm still not satisfied with the overall feel of the layout for the two sections. I hope to spend some time modifying the deck box listing to a much easier to read format that is more visually appealing.
Cloudstone Curio will let you return a land to your hand and can be useful for recasting creatures either for their ETB triggers or just to get more Karametra triggers. It also helps if you're running a lot of enchantress effects.
Authority of the Consuls, Fumigate, True Conviction, and Resolute Archangel are the ones I switch between as I try out different builds. True Conviction also helps with devotion. Also depending on how big your creatures are Shamanic Revalation can be a decent heal spell while mainly helping you draw a lot of cards.
On a different note, Renegade Rallier + Saffi Eriksdotter/Angelic Renewal can infinitely loop with a sac outlet.
Rafiq is a little less intimidating when people know you didn't build your strategy around him, but swinging for 8 each time will still force some much needed removal to target him. I had him in a five color deck where I managed to hit someone three times with him before they had removal. They were not happy.
As for the interesting cards since Khans of Tarkir:
Fate Reforged
Monastery Siege maybe for a more controlling build?
Ruthless Instincts as a budget combat trick.
Valorous Stance as a budget removal or combat trick.
Dragons of Tarkir
Collected Company obviously this is a good card, but needs testing here to prove its usefulness since we only have roughly 22 creatures.
Display of Dominance budget option for removal/counter to blue/black hate.
Dromoka's Command could be decent depending on your meta.
Epic Confrontation budget pump that can double as removal.
Glaring Aegis budget pump that can get a blocker out of the way.
Ojutai Exemplars slow, budget option to make all of your noncreature spells double as a way to tap down blockers, its a decent threat as a blocker if you suddenly give it first strike + lifelink, and if they try to remove it you can blink it with any noncreature spell.
Ojutai's Command actually seems decent. It's versatile and it can potentially get you two infectors back from the graveyard.
Magic Origins
Grasp of the Hieromancer budget option to repeatedly tap a blocker.
Psychic Rebuttal could be useful in some cases to counter removal and/or turn it back on your opponent's creature.
Send to Sleep budget option to tap down two blockers.
Whirler Rogue budget option to repeatedly provide an unblockable buff.
Battle for Zendikar
Swell of Growth the only decent card from this set that I could find for this type of deck.
Oath of the Gatewatch
Reflector Mage decent option to get a problematic creature off the board for a couple of turns.
Slip Through Space unblockable + cantrip for 1 mana.
Void Grafter is a budget option for a way to counter a spell that targets one infect creature and provides you a 2/4 blocker.
Shadows over Innistrad
Corrupted Grafstone budget acceleration, but needs something in the graveyard to work.
Declaration in Stone solid removal, great against tokens.
Eerie Interlude save your dudes.
Ghostly Wings budget aura that pumps + flying and you can discard a card to return your infect creature to your hand.
Gryff's Boon budget aura that pumps + flying and you can recur it from the graveyard.
Haunted Cloak decent set of abilities to add to a creature, but no pumps.
Open the Armory is a solid tutor that I'd strongly consider running in any Rafiq deck (infect or not).
Rabid Bite again budget removal. Combined with a pump spell this can even help your infector get rid of an indestructible creature.
Skeleton Key skulk is a decent effect, and it can help you ditch useless cards when the creature hits your opponent.
I probably have not played this deck since my last post which was in 2014. This deck will most likely struggle in a meta of 4 to 5 free-for-all as opposed to 1v1 or a 3-man free-for-all. You will often be seen as a big threat because you can one-shot people out of the blue so as soon as you do anything relevant or threatening you will likely have all the removel, counterspells, and board wipes being used on you. If you're not hated off the table the next problem you face is running out of gas because you will likely have your threats dealt with quickly. If you hold back playing threats without some haste enablers then you give other players more time to setup their defenses. You can try to hold back on the killing spree to see if other players will start fighting each other first.
I'm not saying its impossible for you to win a 4 or 5 player game with infect Rafiq, but if you're opponents know what they're in for it is an uphill battle for you.
Would you like me to look over the current sets to provide my thoughts on potentially useful new cards?
The current form of my Rafiq deck is meant more for your meta, but it doesn't really focus on infect and it isn't fine tuned. I just sort of threw together a deck that was full of Bant cards that I liked. I haven't been playing as much EDH as I used to even though I still love the format. If you'd like to try a multiplayer build of Rafiq then I'd recommend looking at Swift2210's build: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/217213-edh-rafiq-of-the-many
Another deck for multiplayer that I'd recommend (still not infect, but just as much of a threat at the table) is Prossh which bighaben and feverous have a nice Primer on: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/multiplayer-commander-decklists/511349-bighaben-and-feverous-prossh-skyraider-of-kher-bfz
His most recent video on deck boxes features a premium made deck box that looks like Ratchet Bomb, and in the video before this one he showed off a Zendikar Hedron deck box. I believe some of his favorite deck box recommendations for a reasonable price are the Ultimate Guard Flip'N'Tray, the Ultimate Guard Monolith, and the Ultra Pro Satin Tower.
Here is his latest video which also features a leaderboard at the end where he lists the grading he has provided from past deck box reviews:
https://youtu.be/vWGReq91Y6I
I highly recommend watching some of his videos as he provides a fair and thorough review of many of these different products.
Check out rule 202.3b
http://magiccards.info/rule/202-mana-cost-and-color.html#rule-202-3-b
The CMC is not 6 until the spell is on the stack. Just like when you cast an X spell. X is treated as 0 until you've paid some amount of mana for X which changes the spell's CMC on the stack.
The official blog for Tiny Leaders even lists it as a legal card.
http://tinyleaders.blogspot.com/2014/12/frequently-asked-questions.html
Nevermind, apparently its CMC is 6:http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Fuse
OMG this stuff is confusing. So yea what I said in the first place. Even the link to mtgsalvation's gamepedia for Fuse rulings mentions the following:
In every zone except the stack, split cards have two sets of characteristics and two converted mana costs. If anything needs information about a split card not on the stack, it will get two values. For example, if a player reveals Dirty (Down/Dirty) due to Duskmantle Seer's ability ("At the beginning of your upkeep, each player reveals the top card of his or her library, loses life equal to that card's converted mana cost, then puts it into his or her hand."), the game will see its converted mana cost as 4 and 3. This translates to that player losing a total of 7 life.
Novajoe, you could probably cut one or two lands, since 19 is a bit much. I think 17 or 18 is plenty since you're also running 3 mana dorks. I also agree with PtaQ that Liliana would be nice to have in the main instead of the SB. I like the Engineered Plague you have in the SB especially for the Elves match. A couple more cards to consider for dealing with elves or tokens are Golgari Charm and/or Zealous Persecution. More ways to give -1/-1 without targeting can also help deal with True-Name Nemesis.
I just realized that I have yet to see any TL Abzan list running Ready // Willing in the main or SB. Maybe some people do not see it as being legal, or is 6 mana just too much to be worthwhile? From what I found about its CMC on the official FAQ: http://tinyleaders.blogspot.com/2014/12/frequently-asked-questions.html is that the card is legal in TL. So why isn't this card being suggested or used more?
The most I've spent on a deck... I've been working on collecting foils for a Rafiq deck. I'm missing roughly 11 foils and among those are 5 fetch lands, 1 filter land, a brainstorm, a daze, a force of will, a wasteland, and a sword of feast and famine. So roughly another $1800 to go...
Edit: Current value for what I've got in the Rafiq list so far is about $4,400. So if I ever finish it that will bring it to about $6,200 not including inflation of future card values. Sometimes I worry about how much time and money I've invested into Magic the Gathering.
3 Yisan, the Wanderer Bard
Creature (20)
0 Dryad Arbor
1 Arbor Elf
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Myr Superion
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Talara's Battalion
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Skylasher
3 Courser of Kruphix
3 Dungrove Elder
3 Eternal Witness
3 Leatherback Baloth
3 Mul Daya Channelers
3 Predator Ooze
3 Spawnwrithe
3 Troll Ascetic
1 Ranger's Guile
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Worldly Tutor
Sorcery (1)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
Enchantment (4)
1 Rancor
2 Sylvan Library
3 Hall of Gemstone
3 Song of the Dryads
Enchantment/Artifact (1)
3 Bow of Nylea
Artifact (3)
1 Aether Vial
2 Lightning Greaves
3 Sword of Fire and Ice
Land (17)
1 Homeward Path
1 Wasteland
1 Yavimaya Hollow
14 Forest
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Lifeforce
2 Lignify
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Setessan Tactics
2 Tajuru Preserver
3 Choke
3 Defense Grid
3 Great Stable Stag
3 Witchstalker
The only thing that I can think to mention as a slight improvement is to swap out Silence for Orim's Chant which you can get for under $10, but like I said it is only a slight improvement. At the very least it gives you another option.
I know you already removed Nourish from your original sideboard, but the alternative that I would've suggested in its place that still provides some life gain and blockers is Timely Reinforcements. Who knows the extra bodies on the board could be useful with Ashnod's Altar and Intruder Alarm triggers to get some extra taps out of your utility creatures.
Æther Vial
Ancestral Vision
Serendib Efreet
Suffer the Past (decent sideboard for GY hate that can also trigger Sygg)
Sword of Fire and Ice
Unearth
Situationally great:
Skaab Ruinator
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/forum-1-vs-1-commander-decklists/206322-angry-hermit-mtgcommander-banlist
Khans has brought us:
Become Immense
Dig Through Time
Savage Punch (okay removal when combined with a pump spell, and if done this way it doubles as a pump)
Stubborn Denial (situational, but I'd probably just run Spell Pierce instead)
Treasure Cruise (steep delve, but worth it if the game is going long enough for you to have that many fetches and spells in your graveyard)
Ghostfire Blade (budget option to equip to our artifact infectors)
M15 has:
Ajani Steadfast
Ensoul Artifact (great way to turn some of the small artifact infectors into 5/5s)
Helliod's Pilgrim (budget option to grab a good aura)
Hushwing Gryff
Life's Legacy (if you know it's going to die next turn or something you can sac it second main phase to draw some cards)
Oppressive Rays (budget way to screw with your opponent's blocker or utility creature)
Return to the Ranks (okay way to reanimate multiple infect and/or utility creatures)
Voidsnare (budget option to get a problem off the board)
Born of the Gods has:
Mortal's Resolve
Out of all of these the only ones I would probably consider for the competitive list without budget restrictions would be:
Become Immense
Dig Through Time
Savage Punch
Treasure Cruise
Ensoul Artifact
KMC Hyper Mattes may not be widely available at your local shops, but they're worth waiting a few days for them to ship from whichever online store you order from that carries them.
As for the bit about life-counters, I've been debating if I should expand this thread to other Magic accessories. The next accessory that I was thinking of adding was playmats since I have tried several, but I'm not sure there is much to say about them other than the quality difference between a few brands and then all of the anime playmats that come from Asia. Life counters would probably be a better topic to add, but I do not wish to steal your idea.
Also I'll admit I haven't been very diligent in updating the first post of this thread since I got my first salary job :). I would probably be more inclined to modify and update it if I could simply code the post in HTML/CSS of my own. Being limited to short-code with predefined settings feels limiting, but I try to make the best of it. I'm still not satisfied with the overall feel of the layout for the two sections. I hope to spend some time modifying the deck box listing to a much easier to read format that is more visually appealing.