MTG Salvation

Simic Sky Swallower cannot be targeted by Prey Upon, as it has shroud.

If it didn't have shroud, or you targeted another creature, Akroma's first strike is not taken into account, as Majora said. The reminder text for fighting states 'each creature deals damage equal to its power to the other creature.'. Lifelink and Deathtouch only care about damage, while first strike allows a creature to deal damage during the first strike phase of combat.

Quote from apocalypse31

You cannot. It says "Deal 3 damage divided as you choose of up to three target creatures or players." You cannot repeat the same target. Same reason Hex doesn't work that way.

Incorrect. It says 'up to three' creatures or players. You can choose zero, one, two, or three targets for the ability, and divide the damage in any way you wish among those targets. Either no damage dealt, 3 damage to one, 2 to one and 1 to another, or 3 to three different targets.

Hex's wording requires you to have six targets to cast, because of the lack of 'up to'.

EDIT: I'm an idiot and didn't read the OP completely. You can't target something three times with one ability, so High Priest of Penance would only trigger once.

Quote from Feathas

Uh, under different situations. You pick MF against my cait any day of the week buddy and you'll see how that lane matchup goes. Here's a hint: superior range completely and utterly ****s over people who don't have mobility. Strut does nothing when I can remove it the instant you go for a cs, and then I still have an innate flash via my net.

And then their support jumps out of the bush and stuns you, and you wind up dead because you're super far forward, or MF E's from nearly double your AA range to force you back, or Double-Up a creep near you from outside your AA range.

All Cait really has going for her is a slightly better early game due to her range, and her ult. Once your lane opponent hits 6, you aren't going to be doing much to them anymore.

And one lone trooper way on the other side of the country.

Jack, I was looking over the primer a bit, and I found a mistake. You state, in the combos section, that Salvaging Station + ThopterSword combo + Lotus Bloom is an infinite mana combo, when (as far as I can tell) it isn't. Station requires something dying, and I don't see anything letting you get more than 6 mana from it.

I also thought of another infinite mana combo, involving the infinite Sharuum-Clone loop, Station, and one of the Lotus' (either petal or bloom). The Sharuum loop creates infinite dying triggers, thus infinite untaps of Station. Use station to recur a used Lotus, sac it, use the untap trigger, sac it... Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

Please do post your list. You seem to have a different view on most of the 'swear-by' cards, and I'm interested in seeing what you play instead of those.

Trading Post is pretty good, imho. I had someone comment on why I kept bringing it back with my academy ruins over other things. It's, among other things, a second ruins that brings to hand instead of the top of the library, as well as an emergency blocker, card draw, and life-gain. It also works well with Foundry and Salvaging station, using the tokens for recurring artifacts and drawing cards, and station can let you sacrifice a cheap artifact for a card, then return it for another use.

You bring up good points, however. I'm going to look at my list to see what I can cut for Karn and Venser.

Mainly for a body when we need it. Our lists don't have very many creatures. Aside from thopter tokens, they're all for their effects and if you can reliably pump out tokens with the combo, you're two or three turns from winning anyways.)


What would you put in it's place?

Quote from Jack_from_NC

A few things:

1. Why courier's capsule? Why not run Aether Spellbomb instead, which can interact with the board state, be salvaging-stationed/Artificer's Intuitioned, AND bounce your own guys/opponent's dudes in a pinch? Theoretically, it could pull off more work with less mana...and net you more cards. I bring this up because compared to other options, Courier's Capsule is sub-par. You're netting 2 cards for 4 mana. Deep Analysis, Compulsive Research would be arguably better.

2. Necrologia and Ad Naseum-I've tested both extensively. If you've got to run one, run Necrologia and cut AN-AN is more suited for decks that have an EXTREMELY low CMC curve-we're talking at least an 80% chance of turning something over with a CMC of 3 or less. As cool as AN is, you'll die to it more often than you'll win with it in Sharuum. Necrologia is much more suited here. I'd also consider Compulsive Research and friends here again.

3. How is Tainted Pact working out for you? I've seen some Sharuum players swear by it, but I've never felt the need for another tutor, especially one that exiles.

EDIT:
If you want some notation on AN, I just got done building a Grimgrin list that uses it to win:

Part One:
http://jackfromnc.tumblr.com/post/34356086010/the-glass-cannon-part-one

Part Two:
http://jackfromnc.tumblr.com/post/34764943393/the-glass-cannon-part-two

Hrm. That's a good point on the spellbomb. I liked capsule because it was concentrated, but I see what you mean. I'll swap it for spellbomb.

Just after I edited, I lost two games from going too deep with AN. Necrologia is safer and more consistent. I'll be cutting AN, then. I just need to find something to replace it.

I've yet to cast Pact, and the more I look at it the less I like it. Another tutor isn't bad, but there are better ones out there. I'm going to cut it for either a nice artifact or some card draw, preferably reusable. Deep Analysis looks good.

So far, the changes are:
-1 Ad Nauseam
-1 Tainted Pact
-1 Courier's Capsule

+1 Aether Spellbomb
+1 Deep Analysis
+1 Hanna's Custody

EDIT: Decided on Hanna's custody. It stops random targeted artifact removal, and protects the combo pieces.

Yeah. It's mostly a win-more card, to me. At 12 mana, you can fire off probably every combo in the deck.

Made my list. It's very rough, and only has one game played (Against Glissa the Traitor. Got Foundry-Sword combo out, then drew into Transmute Artifact and fetched Time Sieve for the win.) but here it is!


How's it look?

EDIT:
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Mindslaver
+1 Cephalid Coliseum
+1 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Blue Sun's Zenith

My hand is usually full of stuff I want to cast, not have exiled. If it put into the grave, I could deal with it, but not exiling.

Mindslaver is a test to see if I ever run into a situation where I want to slaverlock someone.

Coliseum is for even more card draw, and another way to get combo pieces into the 'yard, and probe is... probe. 'free' peek and cantrip. I'm considering going an instant speed X-cost draw spell, like Sphinx's Revelation or Blue Sun's Zenith. They both draw cards, but one gives life and one gives re-usability. I'm leaning towards USZ at the moment. Being able to cast for 3-6 early game, then refuel even later for 8+ is pretty good. Went USZ instead of Probe.

Also, Ad Nauseam is beast. Cast it in every game I played today (only 2, but still counting! :D), netted at least 6 cards for only 6-10 life. Our average mana cost is so low we barely feel it, since most of our stuff is lands or 0-3 cost artifacts, and if you do hit something that is 5+, it's usually something you want.

Thanks for the advice!

I'm only on 'Trice for the reason bederndern stated - to get used to piloting the deck. My issues were what I had gathered from the games I had played so far.

I plan on building the deck physically (I scoured my meager collection for a few of the cheaper cards and any of the pricier ones I may have had.) but I'll need to get out and get the rest. Until then, it's testing for me.

Those cards look like they may help, and I'll be looking out for others to add. Tabernacle would be preferable, but bridge is what I'll use, so I can still retain the affection of my wallet. If any more dickbaggery or ruses come to mind, feel free to give me a holler; I'm woefully unobservant to synergy...

@bederndern. If I could it that way, I would. But using another list as a base to get used to the general and the deck is the best way I've found to understanding it, and eventually branching off into my own deck. I agree that the little nuances take a while to understand, and longer to use them effectively. I'm just using JfNC's (or is it just Jack?) deck as a temporary measure to get a grasp of the deck in general.


I'll try it that way anyways. I may even learn something!

If any more advice or cards to test come to mind, I wouldn't mind hearing. Thanks again!


EDIT: Spine is probably better for removing more things, for all the reasons already stated. Even the exile clause from Duplicant is easily emulated, though having it packaged with the effect (and outright ignoring indestructibility, which is definitely a plus!) for one less mana makes Duplicant the better choice in a fight for a single slot, imho. It's cheaper, has a better removal effect, and comes with a body for blocks or beats, or simply an artifact to draw removal or to sacrifice to our reshape effects.

Hey!

I just want to start out by complimenting you on this thread. I visited the 'which EDH general should I play' thread and got suggested to me everyone's favourite metal cat. I liked the deck you listed, and now she's my first ever general! (Minus a haphazard Wydwyn, the Biting Gale deck I have.)

I made the deck you have listed on the OP in Cockatrice, and played a few games. I've found that everyone and their sister targets me with removal and creatures. I try and deal with them, but my only defense seems to be gritting my teeth and taking it, Maze of Ith-ing the worst offender, or the occasional Salvaging Station-Executioner's Capsule pseudo-sweep. How do you usually deal with that kind of stuff?

Somewhat related to my above point is the lack of interaction I seem to be having with others. Most times, I'm just casting mana rocks, trying to dig for Scroll Rack, Artificer's Intuition, and Top so I can dig and filter more. Part of it is my avoidance of just going off with the Ordeal-Steel/Metamorph-Sharuum combo (which, I admit, is one of the only combos I can organize relatively quickly). The solution I came up with is shifting to a control-centric build, while still keeping as much combo-ness I can from this version. What kind of cards would you suggest for that? You're already discussing Ensnaring Bridge, and I'm making notes to add that to consideration as I type.

I apologize if I'm asking any unnecessary questions. I'm more used to tweaking standard and modern decks than building my own, but I'm working on my deck-building skills!

Considering going -1 Huntmaster, +1 Dreadbridge Goliath. The big bug always requires an answer, and if it doesn't exile the bug, it makes another creature a threat.

EDIT: Went -1 Bonfire, -1 Pillar, +1 Goliath, +1 Farseek. I wasn't seeing farseek + 2 lands as often as I wanted. Pillar is becoming less and less needed, imo, since I put MM mainboard, but I can't completely delegate it to the SB yet.

Quote from SajberT

Tbh I see little reason to use Disciple of Bolas when you have cards like Garruk, Primal Hunter.

You get life and a body in exchange for sacrificing a creature instead of Garruk (note that this only applies to cast>sac instead of making a beast.) and a less restrictive cost.


On topic: I tried Disciple as a 2-of. I didn't see it often enough at 2, but when it landed and sacced a Thragtusk it was too much advantage for the opponent to recover from.

However, we have Primal Hunter, like Sajber said, who does Disciple's job better and more. Disciple is just an overpriced 2/1 if we have no creatures, while Garruk still makes 3/3's, and is always a 2-card gain at least.

I could see it in a black-centric build, where GGG is harder to attain.

Quote from Catmurderer

Seems to be pretty good proof, but it reminds me of what my english professor said in high school during a test... if the answer is on the board, then its not cheating to look.

I would think this is more like uncovering a covered answer on a board. It's there, and it's real easy to look, but it's obvious you're not supposed to.

Username: M3mentoMori
Platform: Cockatrice
Time: I'm on sporadically. Anywhere from 9:00 to 17:00 PST (-8 GMT).