How important is sun titan? It seems to me that this deck has plenty of card advantage without it, and it is no where near the best way to end a game. Truth be told I like it less without snapcaster. I might work on a list in a bit and see what i can come up with.
GU decks that run 15+ creatures that actually wants this over real card draw???????
The issue with this card is in the design. I guess it is made for aggro decks because you have to run 15+ creatures for it to be effective. Only being able to pick one creature hurts it a lot. An aggro decks cards are generally not worth a full card later in the game when this becomes useful. I believe in some midrange UG/x deck this could thrive. You could use creature based mana ramp to aid in the numbers. Then you could use value cards such as sad robot to further increase your number of creatures. You really want titans and other valuable creatures with this. Thruns, titans, geist of st. traft, wurmcoil engine, sphinxes that sort of thing.
I might do some brewing and post a list in deck creation if anyone is interested.
Playing a card without paying it's mana cost means it's free and moving a creature from the battlefield to somewhere that isn't the battlefield is removal.
just because you don't pay mana does not mean it has no cost. Instead of costing 1u it cost 1 additional card. Making something potentially cost no mana does not make it better. Sometimes it does in the case of phyrexian mana because life totals can often times be ignored. However spending 2 cards on "soft" removal is far from worth it because that additional card is worth way more than that 2 mana.
The current modern format is what extended was before it was destroyed and made Lorwyn forwards. What bugs me is that all the banned list has done is make 3 maybe 4 decks that were played back then not playable anymore. Hasn't introduced anything new and with how easy it was to predict current tier 1 metagame when banned list came out and with what already feels a little stagnant as just aren't seeing anything generally new outside of delver, its only a matter of time before the format gets boring/stagnant, as certain decks are already starting to creep ahead.
I agree, but what can you do lol. There is this false preconception that banning certain decks will make more decks playable. Really you can only have 2 tier 1 combo decks, 1 tier 1 control deck, 1 tier 1 aggro deck, then 1-2 midrange/junk/tempo/aggro-control decks.
We have both types of combo: twin and storm(might not be tier 1)
Boros or affinity is most likely going to be the aggro deck in results are any sign.
Jund and delver/fae decks are going to fill the extra 2 spots.
Control: who really knows. Nothing is even close to homerun tier 1 status so far.
Regarding manabase not supporting cards and cards not being good because not being played. Alot of whats being played is done so under the assumption that mana in modern doesn't support it, not because not strong enough. Its very easy to make make a manabase for a 2 colour deck without much pain from the lands and have 24 lands that produce every colour. As for Bloodmoon. So far, all off about 2 decks in the field play the card, so not exactly a particularly big problem at all.
What is being done under that assumption? I don't see any benefit in splashing colors in the top tier decks. I could be wrong, but even with insane mana base capabilities you do still lose consistency with every color above 2. It isn't very noticeable with 3 colors, but 4 or 5 is easily noticed. If you look at legacy you will often see decks only running 2-3 colors even though they have every fetch and fetchable duals that don't cost life.
Uhhh... ok. Personally, I think Extended feels more like "super standard". But I guess it's a matter of perception. If you've been playing Standard since 8ED/MRD, then yeah, a lot of the decks are gonna be "old hat".
But then I look at the results I'm compiling, with the outrageous numbers of "different" decks that have placed in the prizes, and I just have to break into a huge ****-eating grin: 36 "different" decks have gone 4-0, and 14 more "different" decks have gone 3-1. That's 50 "different" decks "in the meta"! If you count all the Caw & Delver & U/x/x Control variants as separate categories, that number gets even larger.
the issue with this is that standard has like 30 decks that meet this criteria. Really when looking at the meta for the real decks in the format you need to look at what is going to be competitive against the highest number of decks. I would dare say given enough time an extended deck(with exxtended's card pool) could probably get into at least a 3-1 daily spot. However that doesn't make it competitive.
For all intents and purposes modern is no faster than some standard seasons. Setting aggro at turn 4-5 and combo at turn 3-5. I agree with Paii that it feels more like standard than legacy or even extended a few years back.
So basically free removal is not worthwhile. I don't agree with this.
I don't see any where on the card where it says free or removal. It says bounce a creature possibly without paying a mana cost. If it was destroy or exile target creature with that clause it would be very playable. even if it was 2W or 2B.
You can talk to people without being snarky, you know. Makes you a lot more pleasant to be around.
snarky???? you no like my jokes?:-/
@the_cardfather
Hivemind has done some at daily events. I believe it has also gotten close in PTQs. If you consider it worthy of Developing competitive then I can write the primer. It is the deck I have been testing for like 3 months now.
And we're still deciding on who will write the new primer. I've already nominated myself, and you can do the same if you want the primer.
If you get it, though, know that a few of us are pushing for a democratic primer. People can't just add things willynilly. We want to be able to vote for any new tech to be included (beyond the essentials and already proven cards).
sounds fair. Go ahead I don't want it then. I was just going to since I didn't know anyone else was. However do expect me to vote against the 5-6 cost enchantments you like.
Officially sick of people who think strictly in terms of card advantage.
Don't care how many cards you lose. Look at what the card does and for what.
force of will is card disadvantage yet it is good. Why? because it actually does something worthwhile for free. Bouncing a creature for free is not nearly as good. Let alone the card advantage argument since card advantage is one of the most important things in magic.
Simply ignoring one of the major facets of magic just because it proves your card is marginal(or extremely niche) does not make a good argument mi amigo. Also what is your response to it being less functional than repeal and echoing truth?
I think that just about any deck can make it in this format with the right combination of speed, power, and versatility.
While I agree it is worth the investment I would not spend on some things that will likely be banned as soon as someone decides they can't beat it with an aggro deck so they complain to wizards.
Truth be told not every deck can have speed, power, and versatility. Control decks don't have any of the 3 right now. tempo decks have versatility and speed, but are lacking in the power department. Jund has all 3 and twin is only slightly weak in the versatility department.
As for the meta of course it has changed over the last 6 months. That is what happens when you constantly ban things. However I think the best decks are close to being set unless more bans come down.
the problem is that you are using 2 cards and they are losing 0. 2 cards in your hand is almost never worth the slight tempo boost. Then you also have to compare it to repeal and echoing truth. repeal essentially fixes the lost card advantage that bounce spells are. Echoing truth does a really good impersonation of a swiss army knife. It is one of the most versatile sideboard spells for blue decks.
I can adopt the teachings primer. I Believe that the writer of it is banned. I don't know if this is permanent though.(more than likely it is though because he was quite hard to get along with)
the last thing I want to be doing is tapping 4 mana during my main phase. I don't suppose it would be the worst thing in the world, but still I don't believe that it would be fast enough having to wait for 4 mana.(or more if I hope to beat counterspells)
MUF is going to lose quite a bit more once people start preparing for it. 1 volcanic fallout is extremely soul wrecking. This doesn't even factor other hate cards that in effect can race faeries.
Caw will be a bit harder to hate out, but i am quite sure it can be hated out. It really struggles with card advantage if it can't get advantage from the hawks. Discard seems very strong in the current meta game.
The issue with this card is in the design. I guess it is made for aggro decks because you have to run 15+ creatures for it to be effective. Only being able to pick one creature hurts it a lot. An aggro decks cards are generally not worth a full card later in the game when this becomes useful. I believe in some midrange UG/x deck this could thrive. You could use creature based mana ramp to aid in the numbers. Then you could use value cards such as sad robot to further increase your number of creatures. You really want titans and other valuable creatures with this. Thruns, titans, geist of st. traft, wurmcoil engine, sphinxes that sort of thing.
I might do some brewing and post a list in deck creation if anyone is interested.
just because you don't pay mana does not mean it has no cost. Instead of costing 1u it cost 1 additional card. Making something potentially cost no mana does not make it better. Sometimes it does in the case of phyrexian mana because life totals can often times be ignored. However spending 2 cards on "soft" removal is far from worth it because that additional card is worth way more than that 2 mana.
I agree, but what can you do lol. There is this false preconception that banning certain decks will make more decks playable. Really you can only have 2 tier 1 combo decks, 1 tier 1 control deck, 1 tier 1 aggro deck, then 1-2 midrange/junk/tempo/aggro-control decks.
We have both types of combo: twin and storm(might not be tier 1)
Boros or affinity is most likely going to be the aggro deck in results are any sign.
Jund and delver/fae decks are going to fill the extra 2 spots.
Control: who really knows. Nothing is even close to homerun tier 1 status so far.
What is being done under that assumption? I don't see any benefit in splashing colors in the top tier decks. I could be wrong, but even with insane mana base capabilities you do still lose consistency with every color above 2. It isn't very noticeable with 3 colors, but 4 or 5 is easily noticed. If you look at legacy you will often see decks only running 2-3 colors even though they have every fetch and fetchable duals that don't cost life.
the issue with this is that standard has like 30 decks that meet this criteria. Really when looking at the meta for the real decks in the format you need to look at what is going to be competitive against the highest number of decks. I would dare say given enough time an extended deck(with exxtended's card pool) could probably get into at least a 3-1 daily spot. However that doesn't make it competitive.
For all intents and purposes modern is no faster than some standard seasons. Setting aggro at turn 4-5 and combo at turn 3-5. I agree with Paii that it feels more like standard than legacy or even extended a few years back.
I don't see any where on the card where it says free or removal. It says bounce a creature possibly without paying a mana cost. If it was destroy or exile target creature with that clause it would be very playable. even if it was 2W or 2B.
snarky???? you no like my jokes?:-/
@the_cardfather
Hivemind has done some at daily events. I believe it has also gotten close in PTQs. If you consider it worthy of Developing competitive then I can write the primer. It is the deck I have been testing for like 3 months now.
sounds fair. Go ahead I don't want it then. I was just going to since I didn't know anyone else was. However do expect me to vote against the 5-6 cost enchantments you like.
force of will is card disadvantage yet it is good. Why? because it actually does something worthwhile for free. Bouncing a creature for free is not nearly as good. Let alone the card advantage argument since card advantage is one of the most important things in magic.
Simply ignoring one of the major facets of magic just because it proves your card is marginal(or extremely niche) does not make a good argument mi amigo. Also what is your response to it being less functional than repeal and echoing truth?
While I agree it is worth the investment I would not spend on some things that will likely be banned as soon as someone decides they can't beat it with an aggro deck so they complain to wizards.
Truth be told not every deck can have speed, power, and versatility. Control decks don't have any of the 3 right now. tempo decks have versatility and speed, but are lacking in the power department. Jund has all 3 and twin is only slightly weak in the versatility department.
As for the meta of course it has changed over the last 6 months. That is what happens when you constantly ban things. However I think the best decks are close to being set unless more bans come down.
4cmc vs free
the last thing I want to be doing is tapping 4 mana during my main phase. I don't suppose it would be the worst thing in the world, but still I don't believe that it would be fast enough having to wait for 4 mana.(or more if I hope to beat counterspells)
Caw will be a bit harder to hate out, but i am quite sure it can be hated out. It really struggles with card advantage if it can't get advantage from the hawks. Discard seems very strong in the current meta game.