Pressure voting is and has been a thing. If you call it scum I call it something I've done before. If I need to defend against this weak point further I'll link to games where I've done it and declare the tell null.
"from" hardly does any distancing- merely appeals to reason and recalls Incognito's sentiment about a Nyxu lynch being bad for the gamestate.
What I read from that post was "Eek, don't vote me, look elsewhere." To top it off you played the mislynch card, which yeah, I would like to call fear mongering.
"being linked" is... wait what? This one is me answering a question about the clarity of my posts. What are you even doing?
It sounded like you were saying "I know I have looked scummy up until this point but ignore all that going forward." You said that the suspicion on you is dependent on W_G, yet you acknowledge that Incognito has you as independently scummy. That just reads paranoia.
"hound me" I have explained this. You still have not delivered or addressed the fact that you have not delivered.
For the entire month of May I only had a max 1 hour of laptop access per day, and that was unpredictable. If I thought I would have time to post but didn't, that's why. You can paint it as delay tactics if you want, but that just looks like you're reading everything from a how-can-I-use-this-against-Swishh angle.
"for having limited access" complete bunk. You did not claim "V/LA" until well and after the fact, and when you did I rescinded my vote. Without your explicit declaration of limited access there is no evidence that you are not simply stalling.
"to buddy me up" Really not seeing how I'm making wheat post like that.
I'm not saying you're "making wheat post like that." He's giving you legitimate reasons why he doesn't scum read me the way you do and you're turning it into "swishh is scum and so is wheat and wheat is defending him." If this were the case, why would I think wheat is your partner?
"to Wheat" This one I can't make heads or tails of. Where exactly do I buddy you and wheat up save for believing that you and wheat are scum? Oh, that's evidence enough for you. I see.
I mean...there are only two scum remaining, correct?
Now that I've addressed the "content" of this post, time to talk context.
Your post opens with a vote, this is an aggressive stance from a player that has as far as I've seen not been aggressive this game (offensive? abrasive? sure. )
You demand "specific" issues to be stated- this is the second time I've quoted your posts to highlight what I'm looking for. Either you're not paying attention to what I'm saying (Doubtful given that you appear to have collected links to every post I've made this week) or willfully overlooked the post.
Then, of course, a pile of links. Clever you, bunching links up in arbitrary numbers of words so they can be read as a sentence. :slowclap: Only problem here is that the words and the linked content don't always add up, so instead you look to be scrabbling for weight to add to otherwise weak words.
The "waters" regarding Cantrip's alignment were tested, retested, and sent to a lab well before I discussed the possibility. Or do you forget the walls of segmented quotes thrown around earlier toDay?
I, as I've said multiple times (I really do doubt you even read my posts beyond 'can I use this for ammunition?') inquired as to Incognito's -specific- dismissal of the possibility of Cantrip being scum.
Evidence of Cantrip and you being partners? No. I don't have much of a scum read on him, but given that he's neither dead nor verified via power role the possibility exists. I also find it amusing that you jump to "Cantrip / Swishh" scumteam instead of any other possibility.
Considering that I've been calling you out for your relentless wheat+swishh=scumsquad posts, and considering you were entertaining the idea of one scum between wheat/cantrip, it seemed like a decent question.
not specifically directed at Nyxu:
Before I made this post it wasn't making sense to me why Nyxu would attack me and Wheat would defend me while they attack each other. But I think I know what's going on: After realizing a Cantrip lynch wasn't possible, they resorted to bussing each other but disagreed about whether it was possible to get me lynched. This explains their surprising number of posts about why I'm town/maybe not town.
I voted to get his reaction. Keeping my vote on him accomplishes nothing further because his answer makes some sense and he's given himself a deadline.
For the entire month of May I only had a max 1 hour of laptop access per day, and that was unpredictable.
The definition of "LIMITED ACCESS". You didn't think for one moment that, maybe, it'd be worth spending a few minutes of that hour to log in and say "V/LA for this month 'cause work"?
- Still think our scum are some combination of Wheat, swishh, and Nyxu. Cantrip might be scum but is less likely than those three; DDS is very likely town. (Incog is still nigh-confirmed.)
- I don't see Wheat and Cantrip as being scum together; that long exchange toDay is very unlikely to be bussing. Town vs. town is possible, but I think it's considerably more likely that exactly one is scum. At this point, I think that Wheat is more likely to be scum than Cantrip is.
- I don't think Nyxu and swishh are scum together - Nyxu's attack doesn't look like distancing to me. Again, town vs. town is possible but I think there's probably one scum in {Nyxu/swishh}.
- I think Wheat is the play today - the most likely scumteams are Wheat/swishh and Wheat/Nyxu, and Wheat is scum in either of those scenarios.
But why exactly is Wheat likely to be scum? Glad you asked! Here, let's take a look:
This is interesting - not conclusive, but interesting. See, I'm used to 'Scum meta, and on 'Scum it used to be common for scum to random vote their partners for early distancing. This isn't necessarily an example, but... Wheat, why respond with this GIF? Isn't that a bit of an overreaction to a random vote?
When was the last time you played? (I get the feeling I was in a game with you but you replaced out, can't remember how long ago)
---
People using FoS instead of a vote probably isn't going to be a decent tell this game, there's at least 3 people doing it.
Wheat's questions to Annorax look a lot like the kinds of softballs I'm used to seeing scum ask their partners over on 'Scum. Moreover, look at that comment about "FoS'es instead of votes not going to be a decent tell this game" - scum making an excuse for their buddy, perhaps?
The collective logic saying I'm scum quite frankly makes little sense.
1. The overwhelming drive on my suspicion as scum is based on Trabant's posts. You say they sucked. I say they sucked. We all agree they suck. The suspicion of Trabant makes sense. I am not Trabant. I am iRebel, and I cannot disown the posts of Trabant. I'm stuck with them in my history. Pushing to lynch me before I have a chance to provide solid reads to the entire town reeks of a scum agenda. Off the replacement before he can undo our frame job on Trabant! Why else would there be a strong push to get rid of me?
Why the coloration?
Also I want to lynch you solely because of your play. Trabant merely alerted me to you, you were the one who put down the scumposts.
2. If I were scum, why on EARTH would I use my first big post to call someone out? From a scum mentality, wouldn't I want to take a lower key approach at first? Settle back and slowly work my way into the fold? Doing so would keep my profile lower. Lower profile works better, imo, for lowering scum suspicion than jumping right in like I did.
Both cups contain iocane powder.
3. MTG~DDS does raise a good point: If we both were scum we'd be fools for going after one another's necks like we are. One of us was caught in a lie/misrepresentation, one of us was not (hint: I wasn't the one caught). So if we're going off scummy behaviour, I'm pretty sure MTG~DDS is displaying more scummy behaviour than I am.
You know I actually kinda feel like either DDS and iRebel are both town or both scum after both having posted the same idea.
I'm not terribly surprised to see Polski was the nightkill, but it's unfortunate nevertheless.
Vote: Annorax
Wheat: Why this comment on the Polski NK?
See, "Sucks for Us!" is in my Standard Tells for a reason. It's not conclusive - I *have* seen that behavior out of town before - but the most common reasons for seeing it from town (doc/vig) is out of play given Wheat is either vanilla or scum.
Did you think wg was scummy before the comment? Why do you think poliski said that?
I had a null read on W_G at that point. He seemed to be active, but not providing a lot of content that looked like new information.I did see polski as solid town, as our leader hunting. Then W_G buddies him, and says he (W_G) expects to be the NK. Then polski IS the NK and W_G looks all shocked and tries to use it as evidence he's town.
Quotes to back this assertion up, please.
Quote from MTG~DDS »
I'm actually trying to get your logic behind ignoring words and reads of 2 confirmed townies. You call it WIFOM. I know not everyone who flips town has all the answers or are 100% correct, but we do know they were not lying purposefully or misleading us.
Now as I read it, the statements you are disregarding as WIFOM were just that when they were made. However, with their alignments revealed, it is by definition, no longer WIFOM. Am I wrong in my understanding here? Polski's (read on WG) and iRebel's (read on Annorax) words aren't absolutes, and in themselves are not completely damning. But to handwave them away as inconsequential seems suspicious as well. Probably more than acknowledging them.
It's WIFOM because the scum can make the kills paint a picture.
If you want to call me scum make your own case; don't trust the words of a dead guy.
Wheat's defense on its own *could* come from town - trust me, unless the last two years have changed things the "take reads of dead players into account" argument is still raging over on 'Scum. (I come down on the "take a look at dead player's reads" side myself - yes, scum can WIFOM with the kills, but NOT analyzing the reads of dead players is just giving scum free reign to kill anyone who suspects them and get to endgame that way.)
However, while Wheat's basic reasoning could come from a townie, I don't think the tone is consistent with a town mindset. DDS has just pointed out one reason why looking at dead players' reads can be a valuable tool, and Wheat... just brushes him off with "it's WIFOM because scum can make kills paint a picture" and says "make your own case". I don't see how that's consistent with town trying to explain that they are town... and it sure as hell is consistent with scum just dismissing the case on them.
(Side note: Swishh accused Wheat of being scum with Annorax. I need to take a closer look at that - I'm not sure whether that's most likely to come from scum linking a townie to his partner, scum distancing a second partner, or town attacking a second player because he honestly thinks he's scum with the first.)
The underlined would have been an ok statement if you(WG) had made it, but as it stands, the circumstances don't line up. It seems an attempt to paint you in that light, not Annorax. The lynched townie pointed at Annorax, the NK pointed at you. He explained it as if the reverse were the case.
I don't necessarily think it's a slip but I want Annorax lynched either way.
Still not impressed by this defense. DDS's point, as near as I can make out, is that Annorax possibly slipped because he offered an explanation that would fit for another player - in which case the implied point is that that player is scum.
I would replace nyxu with annorax. So far seen Tk defend annorax without a reason and pretty ignored the points against him day one. Mph just sat on the vote for most of the day, the bemoaned that iRebel seemed town, but did little to convince anyone of that.
@mrh who is on your scum list and why?
Spooky.
But yeah, Nyxu feels like how I remember in Vanilla Mafia. If he continues to lurk I'll have problems with him but for now I don't think he's scum.
I addressed that topic already. Even if Polski and iRebel were not purposefully misleading, I acknowledge that they could have been incorrect.
I have made other posts on the same thought, you didn't capture the endpoint with your representation. Fingers pointed by dead town do not absolutely indicate scum. It is a good point for questions to begin. WG answered for them, Annorax ignored them.
So...what do you want from me? I just don't understand what the question is you want answered, because I feel like I've addressed it too.
I'm having trouble seeing this read on Nyxu come from town (I think he's town but I'll have problems if he lurks? Not reconsider, just have problems? How does that make sense?). It makes sense for WG-scum though, regardless of whether Nyxu is town or scum. If Nyxu's town, then Wheat is keeping him open for later. If Nyxu is scum, then he's defending a buddy while leaving a potential escape hatch for if he needs to bus Nyxu then.
(The rest of the post could come from either alignment, and thus isn't worth going over.)
@DDS: The evidence points to the scum not voting each other. This confirms MRH as scum, and strongly points to Cantripmancer. However, I am noticing upon looking at it again, that Nyxu voted scum, but the scum didn't vote him; therefore, he's probably the third scum if Cantrip is not.
I'm absolutely certain of MRH though. The data points too strongly to it.
Don't like this reasoning AT ALL, not least due to who was on the Annorax wagon.
Rax was cutting short the day. Pinky is confirmed town by flip, Incog is nigh-confirmed as unCC'ed vig.
Now, Rax WAS on his own wagon, so it's possible that there were no bussing scum. But I have my doubts, especially a) how scummy Rax was at the time and b) given the other two players with unconfirmed alignment on Rax (swishh and Nyxu), who were ALSO the two players with unconfirmed alignment who were on the iLord lynch D1.
I think it's probable that at least one scum was bussing Annorax, and entirely possible that BOTH were doing so (I could easily see scum deciding that Rax was doomed and both coming out strong against him early D2).
Okay, so let's say Wheat is wrong. That doesn't necessarily mean he's scum on it's own, but the WAY he's wrong suggests that his is. Look at the way he's pushing this reasoning, and more specifically at the unstated part of the argument: if the scum weren't voting each other, then Wheat isn't scum given that he was on Annorax early D2. Moreover, color me less than impressed that the two players Wheat is targeting in this situation are me (the only living player I know is town) and Cantripmancer (who is almost certainly town if Wheat is scum), especially given that we're a day from LyLo and if we lynch me and Cantrip (in either order) over the next two days then Wheatscum would win the game.
First of all, there are never two scumteams in a basic ever. They are pretty much out even from Normals these days; though I think there's still some discussion on that.
I agree with the analysis of swishh; him being town is well-supported by him being on the wagon.
@Incognito: Why do you believe there has to be a scum on every wagon?
Looking at the votecounts, we see MRHBlue voting the same wagon as Annorax in 4 of the 9 votecounts, more than any other player. I also see him sheeping TK for some reason. Every time TK voted, MRH jumped on behind him very quickly. I find that highly suspicious.
The Annorax wagon is very town-dominated. The only person on the wagon who might not be town is Nyxu. This tells me the scum are not very bussy. I then see Sixed as the only player to jump on MRHBlue, and can't help but feel that makes Nyxu (r. Sixed) very likely town.
I see also that Magenta never once voted. Ever. This makes me think Cantripmancer (r. Magenta) is scum.
DDS was voted by Annorax so he's likely town.
tl;dr: Cantripmancer and MRHblue are almost certainly the last two scum
Vote: MRHblue
(Aside: I have no idea what my predecessor was thinking playing the way he/she was, so don't even ask.)
Wheat still pushes (or more accurately "pushes", because this post came before the last one) the "scum didn't bus Annorax" argument (explicitly this time). The argument against still holds.
Also, that reasoning for declaring Nyxu town is weak as ****. "Rax wagon is town dominated and Nyxu voted for the suspicious lurker, therefore Nyxu is town"? Looks like an effort to clear a buddy to me. That would mean swishh town, but that's entirely possible.
Vote: Wheat_Grinder
Put a gun to my head and ask which of {Wheat/Nyxu} and {Wheat/swishh} is more likely, I'd say the latter (D2 makes more sense as a coordinated bus). But I'm in no way certain about that.
If the AC repair dude doesn't show up bright and early tomorrow, I'm gonna borrow some of DDS' dental tools to carve out his eye sockets like jack o lanterns.
This is interesting - not conclusive, but interesting. See, I'm used to 'Scum meta, and on 'Scum it used to be common for scum to random vote their partners for early distancing. This isn't necessarily an example, but... Wheat, why respond with this GIF? Isn't that a bit of an overreaction to a random vote?
RVS was dead, it had been dead long before that post, I had berated others for not getting with the program now that RVS was over, and then here's Annorax coming along making an RVS vote even after I had explained several times it was dead.
Wheat's questions to Annorax look a lot like the kinds of softballs I'm used to seeing scum ask their partners over on 'Scum. Moreover, look at that comment about "FoS'es instead of votes not going to be a decent tell this game" - scum making an excuse for their buddy, perhaps?
I was bugged by his RVS vote when RVS was dead. New players I would expect to do so, but Annorax has been around on this forum before, though mostly modding games. I wanted to know if he had played much.
And your last comment there is utter BS, I said RIGHT THERE why FoS's instead of votes couldn't be a tell; three people had already done so, and it was highly unlikely that all three were scum. And, even if they were, then how could I be covering for buddies, when there are only three scum?
Wheat: Why this comment on the Polski NK?
Because Polski was an obvious choice for NK since he was so townie?
Wheat's defense on its own *could* come from town - trust me, unless the last two years have changed things the "take reads of dead players into account" argument is still raging over on 'Scum. (I come down on the "take a look at dead player's reads" side myself - yes, scum can WIFOM with the kills, but NOT analyzing the reads of dead players is just giving scum free reign to kill anyone who suspects them and get to endgame that way.)
However, while Wheat's basic reasoning could come from a townie, I don't think the tone is consistent with a town mindset. DDS has just pointed out one reason why looking at dead players' reads can be a valuable tool, and Wheat... just brushes him off with "it's WIFOM because scum can make kills paint a picture" and says "make your own case". I don't see how that's consistent with town trying to explain that they are town... and it sure as hell is consistent with scum just dismissing the case on them.
I wanted DDS to give reasoning, rather than lean on "well dead townie X said Y so Y must be true". I'm fine with using that as a reason to analyze someone, but to use that as a reason to indict is foolhardy.
(Side note: Swishh accused Wheat of being scum with Annorax. I need to take a closer look at that - I'm not sure whether that's most likely to come from scum linking a townie to his partner, scum distancing a second partner, or town attacking a second player because he honestly thinks he's scum with the first.)
I think Swishh is too new to be double busing. Just sayin'.
Still not impressed by this defense. DDS's point, as near as I can make out, is that Annorax possibly slipped because he offered an explanation that would fit for another player - in which case the implied point is that that player is scum.
And you... brush this off?
I was pointing out what I believed to be faulty reasoning, even though it was against someone I thought was scum.
I will coin it the Sam Vimes rule of poor reasoning: If you'll use poor reasoning to get a scum lynched, you'll use poor reasoning to get a town lynched.
Laying the groundwork so that he doesn't have to bus his buddy if he doesn't have to? Not necessarily the case, but given everything else...
I swear I had this out with Cantripmancer. I'm not doing this again.
Especially since I was the first after Swishh on Annorax's wagon Day 2.
I'm having trouble seeing this read on Nyxu come from town (I think he's town but I'll have problems if he lurks? Not reconsider, just have problems? How does that make sense?). It makes sense for WG-scum though, regardless of whether Nyxu is town or scum. If Nyxu's town, then Wheat is keeping him open for later. If Nyxu is scum, then he's defending a buddy while leaving a potential escape hatch for if he needs to bus Nyxu then.
I'll have problems because he'll be doing something scummy, which would conflict with my town read. That's certainly a problem.
Don't like this reasoning AT ALL, not least due to who was on the Annorax wagon.
Rax was cutting short the day. Pinky is confirmed town by flip, Incog is nigh-confirmed as unCC'ed vig.
Now, Rax WAS on his own wagon, so it's possible that there were no bussing scum. But I have my doubts, especially a) how scummy Rax was at the time and b) given the other two players with unconfirmed alignment on Rax (swishh and Nyxu), who were ALSO the two players with unconfirmed alignment who were on the iLord lynch D1.
I think it's probable that at least one scum was bussing Annorax, and entirely possible that BOTH were doing so (I could easily see scum deciding that Rax was doomed and both coming out strong against him early D2).
Okay, so let's say Wheat is wrong. That doesn't necessarily mean he's scum on it's own, but the WAY he's wrong suggests that his is. Look at the way he's pushing this reasoning, and more specifically at the unstated part of the argument: if the scum weren't voting each other, then Wheat isn't scum given that he was on Annorax early D2. Moreover, color me less than impressed that the two players Wheat is targeting in this situation are me (the only living player I know is town) and Cantripmancer (who is almost certainly town if Wheat is scum), especially given that we're a day from LyLo and if we lynch me and Cantrip (in either order) over the next two days then Wheatscum would win the game.
I've been over this too much, I'm not going to again.
Also, that reasoning for declaring Nyxu town is weak as ****. "Rax wagon is town dominated and Nyxu voted for the suspicious lurker, therefore Nyxu is town"? Looks like an effort to clear a buddy to me. That would mean swishh town, but that's entirely possible.
So what about me saying Nyxu was scum.
---
About half of Taredas' "case" on me is reaching (especially those first two quotes), and another 25% is retread.
Sorry that I haven't been participating as much in this game. I don't know that I agree with all of Taredas's arguments, but I still feel pretty good about a Wheat lynch.
Especially since I was the first after Swishh on Annorax's wagon Day 2.
I keep reading you (and others maybe?) assert this, and I keep thinking it's incorrect. So I double-checked, and it's not. The first post of D2 was you, voting Annorax. Swishh's second post of D2 was when he voted, and it was 20-25 posts into the day.
Why do you keep saying that you were second on Annorax's wagon?
Especially since I was the first after Swishh on Annorax's wagon Day 2.
I keep reading you (and others maybe?) assert this, and I keep thinking it's incorrect. So I double-checked, and it's not. The first post of D2 was you, voting Annorax. Swishh's second post of D2 was when he voted, and it was 20-25 posts into the day.
Why do you keep saying that you were second on Annorax's wagon?
I had thought that swishh was first because there was discussion saying he was. I guess I misremembered.
Me being first on the wagon makes my point even better though.
Closer read on swishh/Nyxu is going slower than I thought (partially courtesy of Design Throwdown stuff) and I don't have time for a long post tonight.
Immediate thoughts on Wheat's defense - still don't like the insistence that nobody was bussing Annorax, since from my seat either the scum is Cantripmancer/DDS (very unlikely, DDS is very likely town) or at least one scum bussed Annorax. The rest of the defense is null (it could come from either Wheat-town or Wheat-scum).
Wheat: How does your previously stated belief that nobody was bussing Annorax jive with thinking Nyxu is scum? I don't remember you commenting on that, but it's entirely possible that I missed it considering that I also missed where you concluded that Nyxu is scum after all.
Wheat: How does your previously stated belief that nobody was bussing Annorax jive with thinking Nyxu is scum? I don't remember you commenting on that, but it's entirely possible that I missed it considering that I also missed where you concluded that Nyxu is scum after all.
If the AC repair dude doesn't show up bright and early tomorrow, I'm gonna borrow some of DDS' dental tools to carve out his eye sockets like jack o lanterns.
Nyxu, I made a large post, majority of which was directed at you, from which you selected only one sentence to address. You're still scum, but we're approaching a deadline and I don't think you'll do us the same favor Annorax did and vote yourself.
If anyone is wondering why I'm voting Taredas: Were I to vote Wheat, he would pretty much be the decided lynch today. This way, we get to see how Nyxu uses his vote to decide the lynch.
I'm still certain our two scum are in Nyxu/Wheat/Taredas.
If anyone is wondering why I'm voting Taredas: Were I to vote Wheat, he would pretty much be the decided lynch today. This way, we get to see how Nyxu uses his vote to decide the lynch.
I'm still certain our two scum are in Nyxu/Wheat/Taredas.
This would have been more effective if you had waited for Nyxu to respond before explaining.
If anyone is wondering why I'm voting Taredas: Were I to vote Wheat, he would pretty much be the decided lynch today. This way, we get to see how Nyxu uses his vote to decide the lynch.
I'm still certain our two scum are in Nyxu/Wheat/Taredas.
*perks up from reread*
Hey wait a minute.
Take a look at the underlined section.. Swishh doesn't just refuse to take responsibility for the lynch - he's specifically pushing it off on Nyxu. I see absolutely NO motivation for doing that as town. I mean, town should WANT to take responsibility for their role on a lynch wagon - even if they are wrong, they are HONESTLY wrong.
Not sure who's scum with him, though. I really don't see Nyxu with swishh, especially not now... if swishh is scum with Nyxu, I'd expect him to want credit for bussing his buddy (especially considering how swishh treated Annorax D1 and D2). I could see swishh's behavior towards Wheat go either way - could be scum wanting to avoid responsibility for a mislynch or scum wanting to avoid bussing a partner with only one day until LyLo. On the other hand... Cantrip's response to swishh is fishy as hell. Just "would have been more effective"? No pointing out the obvious problem.
If anyone is wondering why I'm voting Taredas: Were I to vote Wheat, he would pretty much be the decided lynch today. This way, we get to see how Nyxu uses his vote to decide the lynch.
I'm still certain our two scum are in Nyxu/Wheat/Taredas.
*perks up from reread*
Hey wait a minute.
Take a look at the underlined section.. Swishh doesn't just refuse to take responsibility for the lynch - he's specifically pushing it off on Nyxu. I see absolutely NO motivation for doing that as town. I mean, town should WANT to take responsibility for their role on a lynch wagon - even if they are wrong, they are HONESTLY wrong.
Not sure who's scum with him, though. I really don't see Nyxu with swishh, especially not now... if swishh is scum with Nyxu, I'd expect him to want credit for bussing his buddy (especially considering how swishh treated Annorax D1 and D2). I could see swishh's behavior towards Wheat go either way - could be scum wanting to avoid responsibility for a mislynch or scum wanting to avoid bussing a partner with only one day until LyLo. On the other hand... Cantrip's response to swishh is fishy as hell. Just "would have been more effective"? No pointing out the obvious problem.
Whatever, that can wait until tomorrow.
Unvote, Vote: swishh
*back to long posts re: swishh and Nyxu*
This is unreal. I've stated multiple times I am fine with any of you, Wheat, or Nyxu being lynched today while we still have a mislynch. You've gone and messed up the vote split now, but we could have used the rest of the votes as data for tomorrow. By the way, I'm taking your reaction as confirmation that you're scum.
Could it be that your inability to determine "who's scum with [me]" is due to the fact that I'm town and you're not? And uh, did you totally forget you were just voting Wheat before you switched? Suddenly you're considering all kinds of possibilities: Nyxu, even Cantripmancer.
This is unreal. I've stated multiple times I am fine with any of you, Wheat, or Nyxu being lynched today while we still have a mislynch.
Wait, is it just me, or is this a slip?
Swishh is fine with lynching Wheat, Nyxu, or myself today... "while we still have a mislynch"? Maybe I'm just reading too much, but that looks to me like swishh knows that all three of the players he just listed are town.
That would imply that Cantripmancer is swishh's partner (barring me being wrong about DDS).
You've gone and messed up the vote split now, but we could have used the rest of the votes as data for tomorrow
Why should I care about "using the rest of the votes as data" when we could lynch scum *today*? I don't see any town motivation for caring about analyzing votes tomorrow over, say, who's most likely to be scum.
And uh, did you totally forget you were just voting Wheat before you switched? Suddenly you're considering all kinds of possibilities: Nyxu, even Cantripmancer.
No. Prior to your post I thought Wheat was somewhat more likely to be scum than either of you - I thought that the scumteam was somewhere in {you, Wheat, Nyxu} but wasn't sure who (partially because I only just replaced in and haven't had time to read anyone except Wheat in isolation yet), and I didn't (still don't) see you/Nyxu as a likely scumteam so it was probable that the scumteam was Wheat plus either you or Nyxu.
But, you see, that was BEFORE you dropped your posts earlier today, which I see no town motivation for at all. Wheat may be scum, but even if he is he can wait because I'm much more sure about you.
And "considering all kinds of possibilities"? Hardly. My reasoning on Nyxu hasn't changed - he's unlikely to be scum if you are, since your attack is more consistent with scum attacking a weak townie than scum bussing a partner. I'm reconsidering Cantripmancer because I think one of {Wheat/Cantrip} is likely scum and right now I'm not sure it's Wheat (given your comment above and the next point).
Also, let's point out the obvious here. When I attack Wheat, he explains the error in my logic - he's either town or scum doing a good job of faking a town defense (I'd guess the former, but I've been fooled enough times by scum doing a good job of faking that I'm not sure). When I attack swishh, he explodes and stoops to discrediting his attacker.
Why? I'd guess it's because swishh isn't town and I have him dead to rights.
Swishh is fine with lynching Wheat, Nyxu, or myself today... "while we still have a mislynch"? Maybe I'm just reading too much, but that looks to me like swishh knows that all three of the players he just listed are town.
That would imply that Cantripmancer is swishh's partner (barring me being wrong about DDS).
Well at least you're capable of semi-logical conclusions. You're reaching here, and you're even calling yourself out on it.
You've gone and messed up the vote split now, but we could have used the rest of the votes as data for tomorrow
Why should I care about "using the rest of the votes as data" when we could lynch scum *today*? I don't see any town motivation for caring about analyzing votes tomorrow over, say, who's most likely to be scum.
We can do both. I'm sure Nyxu will gladly join you in voting me, but unless DDS and Cantrip do as well, I don't know what you're playing at by voting me.
By the way, I'm taking your reaction as confirmation that you're scum.
Why?
I think because you and Nyxu are scum, you've seen that Nyxu has been hounding me all day, didn't want to be too obvious by replacing in and immediately jumping on me, so you waited until I posted something you felt like you could use to justify an immediate 180 in whom you wanted to lynch. It's an entirely scum-motivated vote.
And uh, did you totally forget you were just voting Wheat before you switched? Suddenly you're considering all kinds of possibilities: Nyxu, even Cantripmancer.
No. Prior to your post I thought Wheat was somewhat more likely to be scum than either of you - I thought that the scumteam was somewhere in {you, Wheat, Nyxu} but wasn't sure who (partially because I only just replaced in and haven't had time to read anyone except Wheat in isolation yet), and I didn't (still don't) see you/Nyxu as a likely scumteam so it was probable that the scumteam was Wheat plus either you or Nyxu.
But, you see, that was BEFORE you dropped your posts earlier today, which I see no town motivation for at all. Wheat may be scum, but even if he is he can wait because I'm much more sure about you.
And "considering all kinds of possibilities"? Hardly. My reasoning on Nyxu hasn't changed - he's unlikely to be scum if you are, since your attack is more consistent with scum attacking a weak townie than scum bussing a partner. I'm reconsidering Cantripmancer because I think one of {Wheat/Cantrip} is likely scum and right now I'm not sure it's Wheat (given your comment above and the next point).
Also, let's point out the obvious here. When I attack Wheat, he explains the error in my logic - he's either town or scum doing a good job of faking a town defense (I'd guess the former, but I've been fooled enough times by scum doing a good job of faking that I'm not sure). When I attack swishh, he explodes and stoops to discrediting his attacker.
Why? I'd guess it's because swishh isn't town and I have him dead to rights.
We have different definitions of explode I guess. So if you don't see me and Nyxu as a scum team, and if I chose not to vote Wheat specifically so it wouldn't be so easy to get him lynched today, why are you seemingly unable to arrive at the conclusion that Wheat and I are scum? Follow up question: if Wheat and I were scum, why would you unvote him to vote me, especially while there are no votes on me?
I feel better about a Taredas lynch with every post he makes. I still think I was right about Annorax and MRH ganging up on Wheat, who I think is probably town at this point.
Take a look at the underlined section.. Swishh doesn't just refuse to take responsibility for the lynch - he's specifically pushing it off on Nyxu. I see absolutely NO motivation for doing that as town. I mean, town should WANT to take responsibility for their role on a lynch wagon - even if they are wrong, they are HONESTLY wrong.
Not sure who's scum with him, though. I really don't see Nyxu with swishh, especially not now... if swishh is scum with Nyxu, I'd expect him to want credit for bussing his buddy (especially considering how swishh treated Annorax D1 and D2). I could see swishh's behavior towards Wheat go either way - could be scum wanting to avoid responsibility for a mislynch or scum wanting to avoid bussing a partner with only one day until LyLo. On the other hand... Cantrip's response to swishh is fishy as hell. Just "would have been more effective"? No pointing out the obvious problem.
Explain why what you've identified in Swishh's post is an "obvious problem" and your "aha!" isn't rife with WIFOM.
This is unreal. I've stated multiple times I am fine with any of you, Wheat, or Nyxu being lynched today while we still have a mislynch.
Wait, is it just me, or is this a slip?
Swishh is fine with lynching Wheat, Nyxu, or myself today... "while we still have a mislynch"? Maybe I'm just reading too much, but that looks to me like swishh knows that all three of the players he just listed are town.
There have been several discussions toDay about how if toDay's lynch is a mislynch, we'll likely be at lylo. Have you not gotten to any of them in your read?
Quote from Taredas »
Why should I care about "using the rest of the votes as data" when we could lynch scum *today*? I don't see any town motivation for caring about analyzing votes tomorrow over, say, who's most likely to be scum.
You can't see any town motivation in seeing which way a questionable player votes when presented with two seemingly similar paths? If the votes on the wagons were 3 and 3, I'd understand your suspicion, but Nyxu would not be deciding the lynch; he'd be committing to an opinion.
Quote from Taredas »
(partially because I only just replaced in and haven't had time to read anyone except Wheat in isolation yet)
Given some of your posts, I find this questionable. It seems like you've done more than just read Wheat in isolation, in which case, you're hedging.
Quote from Taredas »
Also, let's point out the obvious here. When I attack Wheat, he explains the error in my logic - he's either town or scum doing a good job of faking a town defense (I'd guess the former, but I've been fooled enough times by scum doing a good job of faking that I'm not sure). When I attack swishh, he explodes and stoops to discrediting his attacker.
This is the kind of reversal that makes me leery. You seemed to have come to the conclusion that Wheat was scum, to the point of PBPA-ing and voting him. But one vote from Swishh and your perspective changes 100% (well...70%-ish?, given that you weren't sure the first time and you're disavowing any surety now). How can you be so sure that Swishh is scum (and therefore, Wheat town)?
Pressure voting is and has been a thing. If you call it scum I call it something I've done before. If I need to defend against this weak point further I'll link to games where I've done it and declare the tell null.
"from" hardly does any distancing- merely appeals to reason and recalls Incognito's sentiment about a Nyxu lynch being bad for the gamestate.
What I read from that post was "Eek, don't vote me, look elsewhere." To top it off you played the mislynch card, which yeah, I would like to call fear mongering.
"being linked" is... wait what? This one is me answering a question about the clarity of my posts. What are you even doing?
It sounded like you were saying "I know I have looked scummy up until this point but ignore all that going forward." You said that the suspicion on you is dependent on W_G, yet you acknowledge that Incognito has you as independently scummy. That just reads paranoia.
"hound me" I have explained this. You still have not delivered or addressed the fact that you have not delivered.
For the entire month of May I only had a max 1 hour of laptop access per day, and that was unpredictable. If I thought I would have time to post but didn't, that's why. You can paint it as delay tactics if you want, but that just looks like you're reading everything from a how-can-I-use-this-against-Swishh angle.
"for having limited access" complete bunk. You did not claim "V/LA" until well and after the fact, and when you did I rescinded my vote. Without your explicit declaration of limited access there is no evidence that you are not simply stalling.
"to buddy me up" Really not seeing how I'm making wheat post like that.
I'm not saying you're "making wheat post like that." He's giving you legitimate reasons why he doesn't scum read me the way you do and you're turning it into "swishh is scum and so is wheat and wheat is defending him." If this were the case, why would I think wheat is your partner?
"to Wheat" This one I can't make heads or tails of. Where exactly do I buddy you and wheat up save for believing that you and wheat are scum? Oh, that's evidence enough for you. I see.
I mean...there are only two scum remaining, correct?
Now that I've addressed the "content" of this post, time to talk context.
Your post opens with a vote, this is an aggressive stance from a player that has as far as I've seen not been aggressive this game (offensive? abrasive? sure. )
You demand "specific" issues to be stated- this is the second time I've quoted your posts to highlight what I'm looking for. Either you're not paying attention to what I'm saying (Doubtful given that you appear to have collected links to every post I've made this week) or willfully overlooked the post.
Then, of course, a pile of links. Clever you, bunching links up in arbitrary numbers of words so they can be read as a sentence. :slowclap: Only problem here is that the words and the linked content don't always add up, so instead you look to be scrabbling for weight to add to otherwise weak words.
The "waters" regarding Cantrip's alignment were tested, retested, and sent to a lab well before I discussed the possibility. Or do you forget the walls of segmented quotes thrown around earlier toDay?
I, as I've said multiple times (I really do doubt you even read my posts beyond 'can I use this for ammunition?') inquired as to Incognito's -specific- dismissal of the possibility of Cantrip being scum.
Evidence of Cantrip and you being partners? No. I don't have much of a scum read on him, but given that he's neither dead nor verified via power role the possibility exists. I also find it amusing that you jump to "Cantrip / Swishh" scumteam instead of any other possibility.
Considering that I've been calling you out for your relentless wheat+swishh=scumsquad posts, and considering you were entertaining the idea of one scum between wheat/cantrip, it seemed like a decent question.
not specifically directed at Nyxu:
Before I made this post it wasn't making sense to me why Nyxu would attack me and Wheat would defend me while they attack each other. But I think I know what's going on: After realizing a Cantrip lynch wasn't possible, they resorted to bussing each other but disagreed about whether it was possible to get me lynched. This explains their surprising number of posts about why I'm town/maybe not town.
I voted to get his reaction. Keeping my vote on him accomplishes nothing further because his answer makes some sense and he's given himself a deadline.
So who do you think is scum right now?
@Nyxu: Do you think I'm scum or just scummy town?
Oh, this post? Not responding line-by-line to this post makes me scum? I'm waiting on the other posts you didn't respond to. The content you were so V/LA (without saying as much until now) that you couldn't post.
But if you want to get into a line-item quotewar that becomes harder and harder to read as the nested quotes get larger and larger then I suppose I have little room not to oblige.
Line one: Kay.
Line two: You've changed your reason for pointing that post out. First it was Distancing, now you're just highlighting the fact that I said a dirty word (neutral. Gasp!)
Line three: Kay.
Line four: If I knew exactly why everyone who was, at that point, tying me to WG's alignment I wouldn't have asked.
Line five: I don't know how many times I have to say this: I found the discrepancy interesting and worth looking into. Incognito had reasoned arguments against me, others had simply said "If WG x, Nyxu y".
Line six: Kay.
Line seven: Already commented on this. being V/LA without saying you're V/LA, then getting angry that someone went after you because you weren't responding/posting content you said you'd have time to do.
Line eight: Wait what?
Line nine: Yes, and?
Line ten: Dunno. Wheat sure does love his bus theory.
Line eleven: Yes, and?
Line twelve: It was.
Line fourteen: Yep. Answered that one too.
Hey Nyxu are you aware there are 5 other players alive right now? You wanna maybe acknowledge their existence, too? Maybe weigh on the recent happenings with Taredas?
When I don't take the time to match you line for line you accuse me of ignoring you. When I do, I'm tunneling.
And you seem intent on weaseling your way out of posting the responses you promised (remember the ones i quoted, twice? When you were too v/la to post v/la but not enough so that you couldn't promise content?)
Your thread is much more interesting to pull. It's going to form a noose at this rate.
When I don't take the time to match you line for line you accuse me of ignoring you. When I do, I'm tunneling.
And you seem intent on weaseling your way out of posting the responses you promised (remember the ones i quoted, twice? When you were too v/la to post v/la but not enough so that you couldn't promise content?)
Your thread is much more interesting to pull. It's going to form a noose at this rate.
something irks me about Wheat's flipflopping on cantrip. I mean I know I said I thought he was wrong about him, but I sort of would have expected some back and forth about it before he retracted his scum read.
at any rate all 3 of my suspects are being voted now. I still need to review interactions to decide the best lynch today. should have time this afternoon.
Sure. My vote is BS.
Go right ahead and defend Swishh.
If these are the two posts you keep talking about, I've already addressed them both. You and Taredas aren't even being transparent about both going after me. One question for you: Who else is scum?
Look at everything I've posted today. If there's anything more you want to know from me, ask. I've laid out my reasons I think you're scum and why I think Taredas is your partner over Wheat. But just to humor you:
Do you really need to ego-stroke and buddy up to Incognito? If it's a good vote why are you reluctant to do the same??
This is where we first see what will become your trend of taking things I post and skewing them out of context. I agreed with Incognito's reason for voting you, and it eventually became a factor in my own.
Deflection, sarcasm. You're not taking this seriously, are you?
You said "Let's not" to Annorax's plan, then drop a vote on him. You disapproved of his behavior and lo and behold when he changes it (below) the vote comes off.
Being a hypocrite about sarcasm is precisely what got TK lynched. If you disagree that you've been sarcastic today, I'll gladly provide quotes. And yet again, you take things out of context. I didn't unvote Annorax for his change in vote. I unvoted because he town told.
You really meant to imply that a full scumteam would dogpile on a L-3 for a single mislynch? Scum don't trade 1:1, why would you even remotely consider scum trading 3:1 with that tactic (Because three people jumping on a wagon is very, very obvious)
Why do you think they would all have to vote within minutes of one another? There's been enough discussion about the Annorax wagon today that completely nullifies your point. If it's obvious to you, it's because you're scum.
So now you think I was slowrolling the hammer to seem more town or are you just un-retracting because now I'm casing you?
Fun Fact: I've made a point of establishing slowhammer as a null tell. I do it as scum, I do it as town. Why would I use a null tell to seem more town?
Tk wasn't lynched.
If you are going to call my established pattern of slow hammer a scummy behaviour then you have opened my motivations on doing so up to discussion. Or do you want to retract your un-retraction and call discussion of my slow roll hammer wifom?
False dichotomy on indication v certainty(they are two different matters, not opposites). False choice that I'm either one or the other. I am at a point beyond probable cause to believe you scum.
Tk wasn't lynched.
If you are going to call my established pattern of slow hammer a scummy behaviour then you have opened my motivations on doing so up to discussion. Or do you want to retract your un-retraction and call discussion of my slow roll hammer wifom?
False dichotomy on indication v certainty(they are two different matters, not opposites). False choice that I'm either one or the other. I am at a point beyond probable cause to believe you scum.
Pardon: it got him scum read, voted, and eventually shot.
And no, I want to call it WIFOM and leave it at that.
@Wheat: If you're going to keep your vote on Taredas, the split established - me vs. Taredas. I'm equally OK with lynching Nyxu today, though. I want to hear Taredas respond to Cantrip, and some more content from Incognito and DDS would be nice.
Take a look at the underlined section.. Swishh doesn't just refuse to take responsibility for the lynch - he's specifically pushing it off on Nyxu. I see absolutely NO motivation for doing that as town. I mean, town should WANT to take responsibility for their role on a lynch wagon - even if they are wrong, they are HONESTLY wrong.
Not sure who's scum with him, though. I really don't see Nyxu with swishh, especially not now... if swishh is scum with Nyxu, I'd expect him to want credit for bussing his buddy (especially considering how swishh treated Annorax D1 and D2). I could see swishh's behavior towards Wheat go either way - could be scum wanting to avoid responsibility for a mislynch or scum wanting to avoid bussing a partner with only one day until LyLo. On the other hand... Cantrip's response to swishh is fishy as hell. Just "would have been more effective"? No pointing out the obvious problem.
Explain why what you've identified in Swishh's post is an "obvious problem" and your "aha!" isn't rife with WIFOM.
Uh, I already explained the obvious problem: Swishh is trying to avoid responsibility for the lynch, and that's not something town should be thinking about. And I fail to see how WIFOM has anything to do with it. (Unless you're talking about your ignoring aforementioned big problem with swishh's post - yes, that *could* come from town, but I think it's more likely that it comes from a scumbuddy.)
This is unreal. I've stated multiple times I am fine with any of you, Wheat, or Nyxu being lynched today while we still have a mislynch.
Wait, is it just me, or is this a slip?
Swishh is fine with lynching Wheat, Nyxu, or myself today... "while we still have a mislynch"? Maybe I'm just reading too much, but that looks to me like swishh knows that all three of the players he just listed are town.
There have been several discussions toDay about how if toDay's lynch is a mislynch, we'll likely be at lylo. Have you not gotten to any of them in your read?
Of COURSE we are in LyLo if we don't hit scum today. That's not even in question - I'm new *here*, but I've playing on 'Scum on and off since '07.
But that's not the point. The point is that I think swishh *knows* that the three players he listed are all mislynches.
Why should I care about "using the rest of the votes as data" when we could lynch scum *today*? I don't see any town motivation for caring about analyzing votes tomorrow over, say, who's most likely to be scum.
You can't see any town motivation in seeing which way a questionable player votes when presented with two seemingly similar paths? If the votes on the wagons were 3 and 3, I'd understand your suspicion, but Nyxu would not be deciding the lynch; he'd be committing to an opinion.
Not the way swishh did it, no. Look closely at his posts - his priority wasn't seeing what Nyxu did, it's avoiding being held responsible for a lynch. He refuses to put the third vote on Wheat "because that would decide the lynch", and the way he phrases his comments on Nyxu make it clear that he's trying to shove responsibility for the lynch onto Nyxu.
(partially because I only just replaced in and haven't had time to read anyone except Wheat in isolation yet)
Given some of your posts, I find this questionable. It seems like you've done more than just read Wheat in isolation, in which case, you're hedging.
Modus operandi: skim/initial read, then read players of note in isolation. (Works better on 'Scum, where they have this nice ISO button that makes reading in isolation much faster.)
Also, let's point out the obvious here. When I attack Wheat, he explains the error in my logic - he's either town or scum doing a good job of faking a town defense (I'd guess the former, but I've been fooled enough times by scum doing a good job of faking that I'm not sure). When I attack swishh, he explodes and stoops to discrediting his attacker.
This is the kind of reversal that makes me leery. You seemed to have come to the conclusion that Wheat was scum, to the point of PBPA-ing and voting him. But one vote from Swishh and your perspective changes 100% (well...70%-ish?, given that you weren't sure the first time and you're disavowing any surety now). How can you be so sure that Swishh is scum (and therefore, Wheat town)?
Why swishh? Because he made it extremely obvious he's not town - switches over to me as soon as it looks like he might get the mislynch, specifically tries to avoid being assigned responsibility for the lynch. The latter in particular is not town behavior.
Swishh is fine with lynching Wheat, Nyxu, or myself today... "while we still have a mislynch"? Maybe I'm just reading too much, but that looks to me like swishh knows that all three of the players he just listed are town.
That would imply that Cantripmancer is swishh's partner (barring me being wrong about DDS).
Well at least you're capable of semi-logical conclusions. You're reaching here, and you're even calling yourself out on it.
You've gone and messed up the vote split now, but we could have used the rest of the votes as data for tomorrow
Why should I care about "using the rest of the votes as data" when we could lynch scum *today*? I don't see any town motivation for caring about analyzing votes tomorrow over, say, who's most likely to be scum.
We can do both. I'm sure Nyxu will gladly join you in voting me, but unless DDS and Cantrip do as well, I don't know what you're playing at by voting me.
By the way, I'm taking your reaction as confirmation that you're scum.
Why?
I think because you and Nyxu are scum, you've seen that Nyxu has been hounding me all day, didn't want to be too obvious by replacing in and immediately jumping on me, so you waited until I posted something you felt like you could use to justify an immediate 180 in whom you wanted to lynch. It's an entirely scum-motivated vote.
At risk of WIFOM - if I were scum, why wouldn't I just, you know, come out attacking you from the start and not bother looking at Wheat?
But, of course, what *actually* happened is that I attacked Wheat, reconsidered based on defense, and then you dropped a post that almost certainly comes from scum so I reprioritized.
Could it be that your inability to determine "who's scum with [me]" is due to the fact that I'm town and you're not?
Or maybe it's because I don't know who the scum are and need to recalibrate given that you're very probably scum.
So you have no reads beyond me? Yet again, you forgot you were voting for Wheat?
Wheat's defense to my initial case could easily come from town. Yours not so much. (So yes, I need to recalibrate, especially given that the biggest point in Cantrip's favor was that I thought Wheat was more likely to be scum than him.)
And uh, did you totally forget you were just voting Wheat before you switched? Suddenly you're considering all kinds of possibilities: Nyxu, even Cantripmancer.
No. Prior to your post I thought Wheat was somewhat more likely to be scum than either of you - I thought that the scumteam was somewhere in {you, Wheat, Nyxu} but wasn't sure who (partially because I only just replaced in and haven't had time to read anyone except Wheat in isolation yet), and I didn't (still don't) see you/Nyxu as a likely scumteam so it was probable that the scumteam was Wheat plus either you or Nyxu.
But, you see, that was BEFORE you dropped your posts earlier today, which I see no town motivation for at all. Wheat may be scum, but even if he is he can wait because I'm much more sure about you.
And "considering all kinds of possibilities"? Hardly. My reasoning on Nyxu hasn't changed - he's unlikely to be scum if you are, since your attack is more consistent with scum attacking a weak townie than scum bussing a partner. I'm reconsidering Cantripmancer because I think one of {Wheat/Cantrip} is likely scum and right now I'm not sure it's Wheat (given your comment above and the next point).
Also, let's point out the obvious here. When I attack Wheat, he explains the error in my logic - he's either town or scum doing a good job of faking a town defense (I'd guess the former, but I've been fooled enough times by scum doing a good job of faking that I'm not sure). When I attack swishh, he explodes and stoops to discrediting his attacker.
Why? I'd guess it's because swishh isn't town and I have him dead to rights.
We have different definitions of explode I guess. So if you don't see me and Nyxu as a scum team, and if I chose not to vote Wheat specifically so it wouldn't be so easy to get him lynched today, why are you seemingly unable to arrive at the conclusion that Wheat and I are scum? Follow up question: if Wheat and I were scum, why would you unvote him to vote me, especially while there are no votes on me?
I feel better about a Taredas lynch with every post he makes. I still think I was right about Annorax and MRH ganging up on Wheat, who I think is probably town at this point.
Wheat *could* be your buddy, but Wheat's defense could come from town and Cantripmancer's response to your obvscum post looks like scum deliberately ignoring the obvious.
Why unvote Wheat to go after you? Because I'm pretty sure you're scum and I'm not sure whether Cantrip or Wheat is your scumbuddy. This isn't exactly hard.
Also, nice "feel better about an X lynch" rhetoric. Classic scum rhetoric. Why aren't you lynched yet?
We're 8 days from deadline, let's start consolidating onto wagons, shall we?
Eight days is a small eternity - I've derailed bad deadline wagons and gotten better lynches in 24 hours before*, no reason to start worrying about feasible deadline lynches now when I could get scum lynched instead.
* - Medieval Mafia on 'Scum. Granted, that game was more active and the player we lynched was still a townie, but I was right that the previous wagon was a mislynch.
But, of course, what *actually* happened is that I attacked Wheat, reconsidered based on defense, and then you dropped a post that almost certainly comes from scum so I reprioritized.
Wheat's defense to my initial case could easily come from town. Yours not so much. (So yes, I need to recalibrate, especially given that the biggest point in Cantrip's favor was that I thought Wheat was more likely to be scum than him.)
(emphasis added)
I don't believe you actually think that for a second, considering you yourself called his defense null.
@Wheat: If you're going to keep your vote on Taredas, the split established - me vs. Taredas. I'm equally OK with lynching Nyxu today, though. I want to hear Taredas respond to Cantrip, and some more content from Incognito and DDS would be nice.
Unvote
I'm willing to consolidate onto Nyxu if I have to, but I'd much rather lynch Taredas.
I'm willing to consolidate onto Nyxu if I have to, but I'd much rather lynch Taredas.
Make your decision.
In fact. All of you, make your decisions. This endless back and forth is tiring. Swishh has made it clear he is willing to change up who he votes for. Wheat makes his duplicity apparent.
@Wheat: If you're going to keep your vote on Taredas, the split established - me vs. Taredas. I'm equally OK with lynching Nyxu today, though. I want to hear Taredas respond to Cantrip, and some more content from Incognito and DDS would be nice.
Unvote
Similar apology. I didn't expect to need to V/LA, got very busy at work and wife had a death on her side of family. She had to go out of town and I got to keep our 6mo old solo for last week or so. Things have now calmed down and I should have a post with some content today. I have been keeping up with the newly developing wagons, but haven't had the time to check out the accusations and cases myself yet.
WG and Cantrip have stayed pretty solid on their votes/reads. Others are hopping around... Will be following up again, hopefully earlier today than later today.
Private Mod Note
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Thanks to Ace of Spades for the Sig and avatar!! My Decks
Legacy BSpanish InquisitionB UWU/W StoneBladeWU WUGBant NOGUW BWDeadguy AleWB Modern WDeath and TaxesW EDH BBBalthor ReanimatorBB GBWThe Rock / TenebWBG BBMaralen ANT EDHBB UUHeidar, Winter Is ComingUU
If the AC repair dude doesn't show up bright and early tomorrow, I'm gonna borrow some of DDS' dental tools to carve out his eye sockets like jack o lanterns.
I'm willing to consolidate onto Nyxu if I have to, but I'd much rather lynch Taredas.
Make your decision.
In fact. All of you, make your decisions. This endless back and forth is tiring. Swishh has made it clear he is willing to change up who he votes for. Wheat makes his duplicity apparent.
Vote for a lynch and be done with it.
The only change I'm willing to make is you vs. Taredas. Sounds like you're getting anxious while there are no votes on you for us to decide a lynch. I'm not willing to let you off the hook that easily or lynch someone else just out of convenience.
*disclaimer*: I haven't finished following cases presented to check the veracity of context on quotewalls yet. The development of multiple wagons this close to deadline doesn't look very good for town success. The new cases may hold validity, but we need to come to consensus as deadline approaches. If we are caught by deadline vs actually coming to consensus, it will be much easier for scum mislynch. I will be finishing closer looks at current wagons and cases and giving more a more educated opinion later.
Cantrip on WG: This still seems to be a true dichotomy. This case and battle has already acquired adequate attention from my reading. After reading and following the context, the likelihood of finding exactly one scum between these two seems highly probable. Cantrip presented a strong case and called out WG's "weak case points" on MRH. He showed where some things touted as analyzation were taken out of context. WG still has his vote on MRH/Taredas, which means he still feels strongly about him. If the rest of the case against MRH exists, it is not all in one post. The rebuttals did not seem as strong as the initial accusations presented. That said, Cantrip could have just built a well worded case against WG (town) with the possibility that Cantrip is scum. This for instance I see as less likely due to the circumstances under which Cantrip began his case against WG(reasoning on this I have already discussed, but this is a brief synopsis). At the point Cantrip began this case, it wouldn't seem logical for him to do so as Scum vs Town or as Scum bussing buddy. More explanation of logic on this if anyone wants, but I'm pretty sure you can find where I've given it already. For these reasons, I felt WG was our best option today. It seemed our strongest chance to catch scum, but whatever his alignment, it gives us strongest info considering interactions to start with tomorrow. Same as before though, I will not vote until I have read other cases and arguments. @Taredas: what parts specifically changed your mind and vote from WG to Swishh? You feel WG is not scum anymore, or is the case on Swishh stronger in you mind?
WG on MRH/Taredas: the case on MRH was (at least began) largely with interactions between PB and his agreeing/buddying with TK. After following context and looking closer at those interactions, I came back with "neither ready to lynch, nor acquit". Some of the interactions could come from town/new town mindset just as easily as it could scum. The most recent version of the case, largely based on votecount analysis, seems to be debunked. That doesn't mean there isnt still a case, but it is harder to track down everything on it. I will be going back to reread cases presented against him later today/tonight and hopefully have a more solid read on it. @WG and anyone else considering MRH/Taredas: can you either post case points in one place, or give post numbers that hold the case against him? That would help ensure points are not missed when I (and others) are checking out the case.
Case on Swishh: I need to look back at these recent interactions. Some of it looks heavily reactionary. Some does, at best, look like poor wording (on both sides of the case). @Cantrip and WG: what are your thoughts on this case, and Swishh's counter case?
Nyxu: One of the major reasons for suspicion of Nyxu, at least for me, was lack of content in posts. This has changed and improved markedly. I still need to reread him now to see if anything stands out, but on surface feeling better about him. We at least have more interaction and content to look analyze.
But, of course, what *actually* happened is that I attacked Wheat, reconsidered based on defense, and then you dropped a post that almost certainly comes from scum so I reprioritized.
. This is what I was referencing in the earlier part of this post. Again, the question I was posing; what points changed your mind about the case against WG or are you just considering Swishh as a better candidate?
Wheat's defense to my initial case could easily come from town. Yours not so much. (So yes, I need to recalibrate, especially given that the biggest point in Cantrip's favor was that I thought Wheat was more likely to be scum than him.)
. What about the points Cantrip made? I saw decent explanations for some and poor/no explanation for others.
Deadline is approaching. We need to discuss and come to consensus on today's lynch. If our lynch is decided by majority and not by voting, I can't see it being beneficial to us. 2 scum votes is almost a majority vote here...
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I think swishh is a case of looking scummy rather than actually being scum. Taredas raises good points, but I think that interactions with Annorax point away from swishh being scum more strongly.
The greatest part of my case on MRH is his interactions with Annorax, more specifically his lack of them. I had some indications before that, but I've forgotten them. I probably won't get the chance to go back and look alas.
I think swishh is a case of looking scummy rather than actually being scum. Taredas raises good points, but I think that interactions with Annorax point away from swishh being scum more strongly.
The greatest part of my case on MRH is his interactions with Annorax, more specifically his lack of them. I had some indications before that, but I've forgotten them. I probably won't get the chance to go back and look alas.
Sorry that I haven't had the chance to post here; just got caught up in my other game, may have time to do the same here later tonight, but no guarantees.
I think swishh is a case of looking scummy rather than actually being scum. Taredas raises good points, but I think that interactions with Annorax point away from swishh being scum more strongly.
The greatest part of my case on MRH is his interactions with Annorax, more specifically his lack of them. I had some indications before that, but I've forgotten them. I probably won't get the chance to go back and look alas.
Why not?
Because I really don't feel like it.
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Meta has very little weight for me.
You're glossing over the entire reason Incognito voted your for this post: hinting at a third party role. I already called you out on that.
What I read from that post was "Eek, don't vote me, look elsewhere." To top it off you played the mislynch card, which yeah, I would like to call fear mongering.
Why do you think?
It sounded like you were saying "I know I have looked scummy up until this point but ignore all that going forward." You said that the suspicion on you is dependent on W_G, yet you acknowledge that Incognito has you as independently scummy. That just reads paranoia.
More paranoia.
For the entire month of May I only had a max 1 hour of laptop access per day, and that was unpredictable. If I thought I would have time to post but didn't, that's why. You can paint it as delay tactics if you want, but that just looks like you're reading everything from a how-can-I-use-this-against-Swishh angle.
And yet you continue to bring it up.
Didn't you accuse me of coaching Annorax once upon a time?
I'm not saying you're "making wheat post like that." He's giving you legitimate reasons why he doesn't scum read me the way you do and you're turning it into "swishh is scum and so is wheat and wheat is defending him." If this were the case, why would I think wheat is your partner?
I mean...there are only two scum remaining, correct?
Considering that I've been calling you out for your relentless wheat+swishh=scumsquad posts, and considering you were entertaining the idea of one scum between wheat/cantrip, it seemed like a decent question.
not specifically directed at Nyxu:
Before I made this post it wasn't making sense to me why Nyxu would attack me and Wheat would defend me while they attack each other. But I think I know what's going on: After realizing a Cantrip lynch wasn't possible, they resorted to bussing each other but disagreed about whether it was possible to get me lynched. This explains their surprising number of posts about why I'm town/maybe not town.
One last thing:
@Nyxu: Do you think I'm scum or just scummy town?
The definition of "LIMITED ACCESS". You didn't think for one moment that, maybe, it'd be worth spending a few minutes of that hour to log in and say "V/LA for this month 'cause work"?
I believe you scum.
- Still think our scum are some combination of Wheat, swishh, and Nyxu. Cantrip might be scum but is less likely than those three; DDS is very likely town. (Incog is still nigh-confirmed.)
- I don't see Wheat and Cantrip as being scum together; that long exchange toDay is very unlikely to be bussing. Town vs. town is possible, but I think it's considerably more likely that exactly one is scum. At this point, I think that Wheat is more likely to be scum than Cantrip is.
- I don't think Nyxu and swishh are scum together - Nyxu's attack doesn't look like distancing to me. Again, town vs. town is possible but I think there's probably one scum in {Nyxu/swishh}.
- I think Wheat is the play today - the most likely scumteams are Wheat/swishh and Wheat/Nyxu, and Wheat is scum in either of those scenarios.
But why exactly is Wheat likely to be scum? Glad you asked! Here, let's take a look:
This is interesting - not conclusive, but interesting. See, I'm used to 'Scum meta, and on 'Scum it used to be common for scum to random vote their partners for early distancing. This isn't necessarily an example, but... Wheat, why respond with this GIF? Isn't that a bit of an overreaction to a random vote?
Wheat's questions to Annorax look a lot like the kinds of softballs I'm used to seeing scum ask their partners over on 'Scum. Moreover, look at that comment about "FoS'es instead of votes not going to be a decent tell this game" - scum making an excuse for their buddy, perhaps?
Wheat: Why this comment on the Polski NK?
See, "Sucks for Us!" is in my Standard Tells for a reason. It's not conclusive - I *have* seen that behavior out of town before - but the most common reasons for seeing it from town (doc/vig) is out of play given Wheat is either vanilla or scum.
Wheat's defense on its own *could* come from town - trust me, unless the last two years have changed things the "take reads of dead players into account" argument is still raging over on 'Scum. (I come down on the "take a look at dead player's reads" side myself - yes, scum can WIFOM with the kills, but NOT analyzing the reads of dead players is just giving scum free reign to kill anyone who suspects them and get to endgame that way.)
However, while Wheat's basic reasoning could come from a townie, I don't think the tone is consistent with a town mindset. DDS has just pointed out one reason why looking at dead players' reads can be a valuable tool, and Wheat... just brushes him off with "it's WIFOM because scum can make kills paint a picture" and says "make your own case". I don't see how that's consistent with town trying to explain that they are town... and it sure as hell is consistent with scum just dismissing the case on them.
(Side note: Swishh accused Wheat of being scum with Annorax. I need to take a closer look at that - I'm not sure whether that's most likely to come from scum linking a townie to his partner, scum distancing a second partner, or town attacking a second player because he honestly thinks he's scum with the first.)
Still not impressed by this defense. DDS's point, as near as I can make out, is that Annorax possibly slipped because he offered an explanation that would fit for another player - in which case the implied point is that that player is scum.
And you... brush this off?
Laying the groundwork so that he doesn't have to bus his buddy if he doesn't have to? Not necessarily the case, but given everything else...
I'm having trouble seeing this read on Nyxu come from town (I think he's town but I'll have problems if he lurks? Not reconsider, just have problems? How does that make sense?). It makes sense for WG-scum though, regardless of whether Nyxu is town or scum. If Nyxu's town, then Wheat is keeping him open for later. If Nyxu is scum, then he's defending a buddy while leaving a potential escape hatch for if he needs to bus Nyxu then.
(The rest of the post could come from either alignment, and thus isn't worth going over.)
Don't like this reasoning AT ALL, not least due to who was on the Annorax wagon.
Annorax (6): Wheat_Grinder; pinkys_brain; Incognito; Nyxu; swishh; Annorax
Rax was cutting short the day. Pinky is confirmed town by flip, Incog is nigh-confirmed as unCC'ed vig.
Now, Rax WAS on his own wagon, so it's possible that there were no bussing scum. But I have my doubts, especially a) how scummy Rax was at the time and b) given the other two players with unconfirmed alignment on Rax (swishh and Nyxu), who were ALSO the two players with unconfirmed alignment who were on the iLord lynch D1.
I think it's probable that at least one scum was bussing Annorax, and entirely possible that BOTH were doing so (I could easily see scum deciding that Rax was doomed and both coming out strong against him early D2).
Okay, so let's say Wheat is wrong. That doesn't necessarily mean he's scum on it's own, but the WAY he's wrong suggests that his is. Look at the way he's pushing this reasoning, and more specifically at the unstated part of the argument: if the scum weren't voting each other, then Wheat isn't scum given that he was on Annorax early D2. Moreover, color me less than impressed that the two players Wheat is targeting in this situation are me (the only living player I know is town) and Cantripmancer (who is almost certainly town if Wheat is scum), especially given that we're a day from LyLo and if we lynch me and Cantrip (in either order) over the next two days then Wheatscum would win the game.
(Aside: I have no idea what my predecessor was thinking playing the way he/she was, so don't even ask.)
Wheat still pushes (or more accurately "pushes", because this post came before the last one) the "scum didn't bus Annorax" argument (explicitly this time). The argument against still holds.
Also, that reasoning for declaring Nyxu town is weak as ****. "Rax wagon is town dominated and Nyxu voted for the suspicious lurker, therefore Nyxu is town"? Looks like an effort to clear a buddy to me. That would mean swishh town, but that's entirely possible.
Vote: Wheat_Grinder
Put a gun to my head and ask which of {Wheat/Nyxu} and {Wheat/swishh} is more likely, I'd say the latter (D2 makes more sense as a coordinated bus). But I'm in no way certain about that.
(More soon, was busy today.)
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
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UWU/W StoneBladeWU
WUGBant NOGUW
BWDeadguy AleWB
Modern
WDeath and TaxesW
EDH
BBBalthor ReanimatorBB
GBWThe Rock / TenebWBG
BBMaralen ANT EDHBB
UUHeidar, Winter Is ComingUU
RVS was dead, it had been dead long before that post, I had berated others for not getting with the program now that RVS was over, and then here's Annorax coming along making an RVS vote even after I had explained several times it was dead.
I was bugged by his RVS vote when RVS was dead. New players I would expect to do so, but Annorax has been around on this forum before, though mostly modding games. I wanted to know if he had played much.
And your last comment there is utter BS, I said RIGHT THERE why FoS's instead of votes couldn't be a tell; three people had already done so, and it was highly unlikely that all three were scum. And, even if they were, then how could I be covering for buddies, when there are only three scum?
Because Polski was an obvious choice for NK since he was so townie?
I wanted DDS to give reasoning, rather than lean on "well dead townie X said Y so Y must be true". I'm fine with using that as a reason to analyze someone, but to use that as a reason to indict is foolhardy.
I think Swishh is too new to be double busing. Just sayin'.
I was pointing out what I believed to be faulty reasoning, even though it was against someone I thought was scum.
I will coin it the Sam Vimes rule of poor reasoning: If you'll use poor reasoning to get a scum lynched, you'll use poor reasoning to get a town lynched.
I swear I had this out with Cantripmancer. I'm not doing this again.
Especially since I was the first after Swishh on Annorax's wagon Day 2.
I'll have problems because he'll be doing something scummy, which would conflict with my town read. That's certainly a problem.
I've been over this too much, I'm not going to again.
So what about me saying Nyxu was scum.
---
About half of Taredas' "case" on me is reaching (especially those first two quotes), and another 25% is retread.
I'm still feeling good about him being scum.
I keep reading you (and others maybe?) assert this, and I keep thinking it's incorrect. So I double-checked, and it's not. The first post of D2 was you, voting Annorax. Swishh's second post of D2 was when he voted, and it was 20-25 posts into the day.
Why do you keep saying that you were second on Annorax's wagon?
I had thought that swishh was first because there was discussion saying he was. I guess I misremembered.
Me being first on the wagon makes my point even better though.
Posting to avoid prod.
Immediate thoughts on Wheat's defense - still don't like the insistence that nobody was bussing Annorax, since from my seat either the scum is Cantripmancer/DDS (very unlikely, DDS is very likely town) or at least one scum bussed Annorax. The rest of the defense is null (it could come from either Wheat-town or Wheat-scum).
Wheat: How does your previously stated belief that nobody was bussing Annorax jive with thinking Nyxu is scum? I don't remember you commenting on that, but it's entirely possible that I missed it considering that I also missed where you concluded that Nyxu is scum after all.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
It doesn't and I've given up on that thought.
Wheat: which idea are you referring to when you say you've given up on "it"?
I've given up on the idea that all the scum aren't busing, because I believe you were busing.
We are quick approaching deadline. If any questions need to be asked or answered get it in. Same goes for any casing or info to add.
Thanks to Ace of Spades for the Sig and avatar!!
My Decks
BSpanish InquisitionB
UWU/W StoneBladeWU
WUGBant NOGUW
BWDeadguy AleWB
Modern
WDeath and TaxesW
EDH
BBBalthor ReanimatorBB
GBWThe Rock / TenebWBG
BBMaralen ANT EDHBB
UUHeidar, Winter Is ComingUU
Taredas (1): Wheat_Grinder
Wheat_Grinder (2): Cantripmancer; Taredas
Nyxu (1): swishh
Not Voting: MTG~DDS; Nyxu; Incognito
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch!
Deadline: June 12, 2013 @ 17:00 Pacific [20:00 Eastern]
If the deadline hits without a lynch, the person with the most votes will be lynched.
Nyxu, I made a large post, majority of which was directed at you, from which you selected only one sentence to address. You're still scum, but we're approaching a deadline and I don't think you'll do us the same favor Annorax did and vote yourself.
Unvote
Vote: Taredas
I'm still certain our two scum are in Nyxu/Wheat/Taredas.
This would have been more effective if you had waited for Nyxu to respond before explaining.
*perks up from reread*
Hey wait a minute.
Take a look at the underlined section.. Swishh doesn't just refuse to take responsibility for the lynch - he's specifically pushing it off on Nyxu. I see absolutely NO motivation for doing that as town. I mean, town should WANT to take responsibility for their role on a lynch wagon - even if they are wrong, they are HONESTLY wrong.
Not sure who's scum with him, though. I really don't see Nyxu with swishh, especially not now... if swishh is scum with Nyxu, I'd expect him to want credit for bussing his buddy (especially considering how swishh treated Annorax D1 and D2). I could see swishh's behavior towards Wheat go either way - could be scum wanting to avoid responsibility for a mislynch or scum wanting to avoid bussing a partner with only one day until LyLo. On the other hand... Cantrip's response to swishh is fishy as hell. Just "would have been more effective"? No pointing out the obvious problem.
Whatever, that can wait until tomorrow.
Unvote, Vote: swishh
*back to long posts re: swishh and Nyxu*
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
This is unreal. I've stated multiple times I am fine with any of you, Wheat, or Nyxu being lynched today while we still have a mislynch. You've gone and messed up the vote split now, but we could have used the rest of the votes as data for tomorrow. By the way, I'm taking your reaction as confirmation that you're scum.
Could it be that your inability to determine "who's scum with [me]" is due to the fact that I'm town and you're not? And uh, did you totally forget you were just voting Wheat before you switched? Suddenly you're considering all kinds of possibilities: Nyxu, even Cantripmancer.
Wait, is it just me, or is this a slip?
Swishh is fine with lynching Wheat, Nyxu, or myself today... "while we still have a mislynch"? Maybe I'm just reading too much, but that looks to me like swishh knows that all three of the players he just listed are town.
That would imply that Cantripmancer is swishh's partner (barring me being wrong about DDS).
Why should I care about "using the rest of the votes as data" when we could lynch scum *today*? I don't see any town motivation for caring about analyzing votes tomorrow over, say, who's most likely to be scum.
Why?
Or maybe it's because I don't know who the scum are and need to recalibrate given that you're very probably scum.
No. Prior to your post I thought Wheat was somewhat more likely to be scum than either of you - I thought that the scumteam was somewhere in {you, Wheat, Nyxu} but wasn't sure who (partially because I only just replaced in and haven't had time to read anyone except Wheat in isolation yet), and I didn't (still don't) see you/Nyxu as a likely scumteam so it was probable that the scumteam was Wheat plus either you or Nyxu.
But, you see, that was BEFORE you dropped your posts earlier today, which I see no town motivation for at all. Wheat may be scum, but even if he is he can wait because I'm much more sure about you.
And "considering all kinds of possibilities"? Hardly. My reasoning on Nyxu hasn't changed - he's unlikely to be scum if you are, since your attack is more consistent with scum attacking a weak townie than scum bussing a partner. I'm reconsidering Cantripmancer because I think one of {Wheat/Cantrip} is likely scum and right now I'm not sure it's Wheat (given your comment above and the next point).
Also, let's point out the obvious here. When I attack Wheat, he explains the error in my logic - he's either town or scum doing a good job of faking a town defense (I'd guess the former, but I've been fooled enough times by scum doing a good job of faking that I'm not sure). When I attack swishh, he explodes and stoops to discrediting his attacker.
Why? I'd guess it's because swishh isn't town and I have him dead to rights.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
It's just you.
Well at least you're capable of semi-logical conclusions. You're reaching here, and you're even calling yourself out on it.
We can do both. I'm sure Nyxu will gladly join you in voting me, but unless DDS and Cantrip do as well, I don't know what you're playing at by voting me.
I think because you and Nyxu are scum, you've seen that Nyxu has been hounding me all day, didn't want to be too obvious by replacing in and immediately jumping on me, so you waited until I posted something you felt like you could use to justify an immediate 180 in whom you wanted to lynch. It's an entirely scum-motivated vote.
So you have no reads beyond me? Yet again, you forgot you were voting for Wheat?
We have different definitions of explode I guess. So if you don't see me and Nyxu as a scum team, and if I chose not to vote Wheat specifically so it wouldn't be so easy to get him lynched today, why are you seemingly unable to arrive at the conclusion that Wheat and I are scum? Follow up question: if Wheat and I were scum, why would you unvote him to vote me, especially while there are no votes on me?
I feel better about a Taredas lynch with every post he makes. I still think I was right about Annorax and MRH ganging up on Wheat, who I think is probably town at this point.
Explain why what you've identified in Swishh's post is an "obvious problem" and your "aha!" isn't rife with WIFOM.
There have been several discussions toDay about how if toDay's lynch is a mislynch, we'll likely be at lylo. Have you not gotten to any of them in your read?
You can't see any town motivation in seeing which way a questionable player votes when presented with two seemingly similar paths? If the votes on the wagons were 3 and 3, I'd understand your suspicion, but Nyxu would not be deciding the lynch; he'd be committing to an opinion.
Given some of your posts, I find this questionable. It seems like you've done more than just read Wheat in isolation, in which case, you're hedging.
This is the kind of reversal that makes me leery. You seemed to have come to the conclusion that Wheat was scum, to the point of PBPA-ing and voting him. But one vote from Swishh and your perspective changes 100% (well...70%-ish?, given that you weren't sure the first time and you're disavowing any surety now). How can you be so sure that Swishh is scum (and therefore, Wheat town)?
Oh, this post? Not responding line-by-line to this post makes me scum? I'm waiting on the other posts you didn't respond to. The content you were so V/LA (without saying as much until now) that you couldn't post.
But if you want to get into a line-item quotewar that becomes harder and harder to read as the nested quotes get larger and larger then I suppose I have little room not to oblige.
Line one: Kay.
Line two: You've changed your reason for pointing that post out. First it was Distancing, now you're just highlighting the fact that I said a dirty word (neutral. Gasp!)
Line three: Kay.
Line four: If I knew exactly why everyone who was, at that point, tying me to WG's alignment I wouldn't have asked.
Line five: I don't know how many times I have to say this: I found the discrepancy interesting and worth looking into. Incognito had reasoned arguments against me, others had simply said "If WG x, Nyxu y".
Line six: Kay.
Line seven: Already commented on this. being V/LA without saying you're V/LA, then getting angry that someone went after you because you weren't responding/posting content you said you'd have time to do.
Line eight: Wait what?
Line nine: Yes, and?
Line ten: Dunno. Wheat sure does love his bus theory.
Line eleven: Yes, and?
Line twelve: It was.
Line fourteen: Yep. Answered that one too.
And you seem intent on weaseling your way out of posting the responses you promised (remember the ones i quoted, twice? When you were too v/la to post v/la but not enough so that you couldn't promise content?)
Your thread is much more interesting to pull. It's going to form a noose at this rate.
vote swishh
If these are the two posts you keep talking about, I've already addressed them both. You and Taredas aren't even being transparent about both going after me. One question for you: Who else is scum?
Taredas has not gone unnoticed and is pending reread.
Where did you address those posts ?
This is where we first see what will become your trend of taking things I post and skewing them out of context. I agreed with Incognito's reason for voting you, and it eventually became a factor in my own.
Being a hypocrite about sarcasm is precisely what got TK lynched. If you disagree that you've been sarcastic today, I'll gladly provide quotes. And yet again, you take things out of context. I didn't unvote Annorax for his change in vote. I unvoted because he town told.
Why do you think they would all have to vote within minutes of one another? There's been enough discussion about the Annorax wagon today that completely nullifies your point. If it's obvious to you, it's because you're scum.
WIFOM
Would you say you are more "indicated" or "certain" that I'm scum?
If you are going to call my established pattern of slow hammer a scummy behaviour then you have opened my motivations on doing so up to discussion. Or do you want to retract your un-retraction and call discussion of my slow roll hammer wifom?
False dichotomy on indication v certainty(they are two different matters, not opposites). False choice that I'm either one or the other. I am at a point beyond probable cause to believe you scum.
Pardon: it got him scum read, voted, and eventually shot.
And no, I want to call it WIFOM and leave it at that.
Unvote
Uh, I already explained the obvious problem: Swishh is trying to avoid responsibility for the lynch, and that's not something town should be thinking about. And I fail to see how WIFOM has anything to do with it. (Unless you're talking about your ignoring aforementioned big problem with swishh's post - yes, that *could* come from town, but I think it's more likely that it comes from a scumbuddy.)
Of COURSE we are in LyLo if we don't hit scum today. That's not even in question - I'm new *here*, but I've playing on 'Scum on and off since '07.
But that's not the point. The point is that I think swishh *knows* that the three players he listed are all mislynches.
Not the way swishh did it, no. Look closely at his posts - his priority wasn't seeing what Nyxu did, it's avoiding being held responsible for a lynch. He refuses to put the third vote on Wheat "because that would decide the lynch", and the way he phrases his comments on Nyxu make it clear that he's trying to shove responsibility for the lynch onto Nyxu.
Modus operandi: skim/initial read, then read players of note in isolation. (Works better on 'Scum, where they have this nice ISO button that makes reading in isolation much faster.)
Why swishh? Because he made it extremely obvious he's not town - switches over to me as soon as it looks like he might get the mislynch, specifically tries to avoid being assigned responsibility for the lynch. The latter in particular is not town behavior.
---
You'll understand if I don't take your word for it, especially when you fail to offer any explanation for why it *isn't* a slip.
Nice adhom stoop.
I'm trying to get scum lynched. Next question?
At risk of WIFOM - if I were scum, why wouldn't I just, you know, come out attacking you from the start and not bother looking at Wheat?
But, of course, what *actually* happened is that I attacked Wheat, reconsidered based on defense, and then you dropped a post that almost certainly comes from scum so I reprioritized.
Wheat's defense to my initial case could easily come from town. Yours not so much. (So yes, I need to recalibrate, especially given that the biggest point in Cantrip's favor was that I thought Wheat was more likely to be scum than him.)
Wheat *could* be your buddy, but Wheat's defense could come from town and Cantripmancer's response to your obvscum post looks like scum deliberately ignoring the obvious.
Why unvote Wheat to go after you? Because I'm pretty sure you're scum and I'm not sure whether Cantrip or Wheat is your scumbuddy. This isn't exactly hard.
Also, nice "feel better about an X lynch" rhetoric. Classic scum rhetoric. Why aren't you lynched yet?
More votes on swishh, please.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Eight days is a small eternity - I've derailed bad deadline wagons and gotten better lynches in 24 hours before*, no reason to start worrying about feasible deadline lynches now when I could get scum lynched instead.
* - Medieval Mafia on 'Scum. Granted, that game was more active and the player we lynched was still a townie, but I was right that the previous wagon was a mislynch.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
(emphasis added)
I don't believe you actually think that for a second, considering you yourself called his defense null.
This week is abnormally busy, and I'll try to get my reread on swishh done, but time will tell.
I am perfectly fine with a Wheat, Nyxu, or swishh lynch.
I'm willing to consolidate onto Nyxu if I have to, but I'd much rather lynch Taredas.
Why not Taredas?
Taredas (1): Wheat_Grinder
Wheat_Grinder (1): Cantripmancer
Swishh (2): Taredas; Nyxu
Not Voting: MTG~DDS; Incognito; swishh
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch!
Deadline: June 12, 2013 @ 17:00 Pacific [20:00 Eastern]
If the deadline hits without a lynch, the person with the most votes will be lynched.
Make your decision.
In fact. All of you, make your decisions. This endless back and forth is tiring. Swishh has made it clear he is willing to change up who he votes for. Wheat makes his duplicity apparent.
Vote for a lynch and be done with it.
Similar apology. I didn't expect to need to V/LA, got very busy at work and wife had a death on her side of family. She had to go out of town and I got to keep our 6mo old solo for last week or so. Things have now calmed down and I should have a post with some content today. I have been keeping up with the newly developing wagons, but haven't had the time to check out the accusations and cases myself yet.
WG and Cantrip have stayed pretty solid on their votes/reads. Others are hopping around... Will be following up again, hopefully earlier today than later today.
Thanks to Ace of Spades for the Sig and avatar!!
My Decks
BSpanish InquisitionB
UWU/W StoneBladeWU
WUGBant NOGUW
BWDeadguy AleWB
Modern
WDeath and TaxesW
EDH
BBBalthor ReanimatorBB
GBWThe Rock / TenebWBG
BBMaralen ANT EDHBB
UUHeidar, Winter Is ComingUU
The only change I'm willing to make is you vs. Taredas. Sounds like you're getting anxious while there are no votes on you for us to decide a lynch. I'm not willing to let you off the hook that easily or lynch someone else just out of convenience.
Vote: Nyxu
Cantrip on WG: This still seems to be a true dichotomy. This case and battle has already acquired adequate attention from my reading. After reading and following the context, the likelihood of finding exactly one scum between these two seems highly probable. Cantrip presented a strong case and called out WG's "weak case points" on MRH. He showed where some things touted as analyzation were taken out of context. WG still has his vote on MRH/Taredas, which means he still feels strongly about him. If the rest of the case against MRH exists, it is not all in one post. The rebuttals did not seem as strong as the initial accusations presented. That said, Cantrip could have just built a well worded case against WG (town) with the possibility that Cantrip is scum. This for instance I see as less likely due to the circumstances under which Cantrip began his case against WG(reasoning on this I have already discussed, but this is a brief synopsis). At the point Cantrip began this case, it wouldn't seem logical for him to do so as Scum vs Town or as Scum bussing buddy. More explanation of logic on this if anyone wants, but I'm pretty sure you can find where I've given it already. For these reasons, I felt WG was our best option today. It seemed our strongest chance to catch scum, but whatever his alignment, it gives us strongest info considering interactions to start with tomorrow. Same as before though, I will not vote until I have read other cases and arguments. @Taredas: what parts specifically changed your mind and vote from WG to Swishh? You feel WG is not scum anymore, or is the case on Swishh stronger in you mind?
WG on MRH/Taredas: the case on MRH was (at least began) largely with interactions between PB and his agreeing/buddying with TK. After following context and looking closer at those interactions, I came back with "neither ready to lynch, nor acquit". Some of the interactions could come from town/new town mindset just as easily as it could scum. The most recent version of the case, largely based on votecount analysis, seems to be debunked. That doesn't mean there isnt still a case, but it is harder to track down everything on it. I will be going back to reread cases presented against him later today/tonight and hopefully have a more solid read on it. @WG and anyone else considering MRH/Taredas: can you either post case points in one place, or give post numbers that hold the case against him? That would help ensure points are not missed when I (and others) are checking out the case.
Case on Swishh: I need to look back at these recent interactions. Some of it looks heavily reactionary. Some does, at best, look like poor wording (on both sides of the case). @Cantrip and WG: what are your thoughts on this case, and Swishh's counter case?
Nyxu: One of the major reasons for suspicion of Nyxu, at least for me, was lack of content in posts. This has changed and improved markedly. I still need to reread him now to see if anything stands out, but on surface feeling better about him. We at least have more interaction and content to look analyze.
. This is what I was referencing in the earlier part of this post. Again, the question I was posing; what points changed your mind about the case against WG or are you just considering Swishh as a better candidate?
. What about the points Cantrip made? I saw decent explanations for some and poor/no explanation for others.
Deadline is approaching. We need to discuss and come to consensus on today's lynch. If our lynch is decided by majority and not by voting, I can't see it being beneficial to us. 2 scum votes is almost a majority vote here...
Thanks to Ace of Spades for the Sig and avatar!!
My Decks
BSpanish InquisitionB
UWU/W StoneBladeWU
WUGBant NOGUW
BWDeadguy AleWB
Modern
WDeath and TaxesW
EDH
BBBalthor ReanimatorBB
GBWThe Rock / TenebWBG
BBMaralen ANT EDHBB
UUHeidar, Winter Is ComingUU
The greatest part of my case on MRH is his interactions with Annorax, more specifically his lack of them. I had some indications before that, but I've forgotten them. I probably won't get the chance to go back and look alas.
Why not?
Because I really don't feel like it.