Average Draft: Few drafts a week as 2-player drafts, we generally use the pancake drafting format right now. We used to play tenchester but it was starting to get stale as with only 2 players you can just choose what to draft and get a good version of it 95% of the time.
Cube CMC: 2.58
White has been designed to play across all roles, it has a focus on cheap aggressive creatures balanced out by a lot of powerful control spells.
Blue has a lot of powerful control cards for the colour's main focus. There is a fair number of EtB creatures which help support U/X tempo decks backed up by the relevant guild sections. Finally, blue plays as the cube's main support colour for the artifact deck.
Black is similar to white in that is can play across several archetypes. It has a good number of low cost aggressive creatures backed up by cheap removal and discard effects for agrro, some powerful spells for control as well as both Pox and Reanimator packages.
Unsurprisingly red is the main aggro colour in my cube with lots of cheap aggressive creature and burn spells. Additionally, it has support for more controlling decks thanks to several cheap sweepers, split damage spells and three Wildfire effect at the top end.
I'm currently experimenting with a few variant rules. The main one is that after drafting the cube we draft the utility lands separately. Plan is to Rotisserie draft the lands in the rare occasion I get a proper draft. Given our main format is 2-player pancake drafting the lands is a bit complicated to describe but in effect we see 30 of the 39 cards and each get 5 lands from the list to add to our decks.
The shadow creatures are left out on purpose? They are fantastic aggro cards that don't lose vlue even when the game goes longer than aggro likes.
The other thing that jumped into my eye is your land subsection in the colourless section. Some staples are missing. For comparison my colourless classified lands:
First of all, thanks for your thoughts, I've added the deck to Eidolon's stats thread and did some comparisons towards the end of deck-building.
I made a decision fairly early on to exclude shadow as a keyword. I preferred the knight-style 2 drops more than the shadow ones so it made me think of shadow as unblockable, cause I generally forget they can't block non-shadow, not that aggro decks are likely concerned with blocking.
If I expand the aggro support for white I'd prolly bring in the 2-drops along with the Soltari Champion.
I was aware that I'd missed out a lot of the powerful non-basic lands, I just kinda ran out of room for them. I could probably trim some of the bigger mana stones to make room.
Do you think the Vivid cycle is necessary or will it promote control too much?
First of all, thanks for your thoughts, I've added the deck to Eidolon's stats thread and did some comparisons towards the end of deck-building.
I made a decision fairly early on to exclude shadow as a keyword. I preferred the knight-style 2 drops more than the shadow ones so it made me think of shadow as unblockable, cause I generally forget they can't block non-shadow, not that aggro decks are likely concerned with blocking.
If I expand the aggro support for white I'd prolly bring in the 2-drops along with the Soltari Champion.
I was aware that I'd missed out a lot of the powerful non-basic lands, I just kinda ran out of room for them. I could probably trim some of the bigger mana stones to make room.
Do you think the Vivid cycle is necessary or will it promote control too much?
I would fully support your decision to cut the vivids and some expensive mana rocks for more non-basic utility lands. Things like Strip Mine and Library of Alexandria are staples of the staples in powered cubes; definite must includes. The vivids are not needed at 360. The dual/fetch density is high enough for colour fixing in drafts. The expensive mana rocks don't ramp at meaningful points of the curve, unless you run some kind of dragon cube. 4 mana seems to be the magic number that most control decks need to reach asap (wrath and friends) to keep the game under control.
EDIT: If you play mostly sealed deck, a slightly higher number of colour fixing may be desired. This is the reason why my cube runs four fixers per guild at 360 instead of the usual three.
Also decided to swap out Sigarda, Host of Herons for Qasali Pridemage as the angel is a fairly replaceable beat stick unless used against a black stax deck... The Pridemage is nice support for aggro/mid-range.
colloseum > terramorphic expanse = evolving wilds. colloseum is a staple. The other two are replaceable and far away from staple status, although I like to max out on fetch lands (colour fixing, landfall, shuffle effects, deck thinning) and they fit into many decks. For a while I was even running some of the mirage fetch lands.
Regarding the Lantern, I also really like it but I feel the ramp from worn powerstone is more important in going from 3 to 6. Depending on how the cube plays it may go back in, but I think it's a reasonable cut to start with in a vacuum.
I've never been sold on the original masticore, I've heard it's awesome but I've never played with it and I actually have copies of the other 2 so decided to see how they perform first.
Did a test draft on tappedout.net against bots (I know it's not the best but only option atm) and I managed to force a reasonable R/w aggro deck, decided to see if I could as I'm not sure I have the critical density of 1 and 2 drops for aggro.
Large update to OP cube list after some testing to make it more reliable for 2 player drafts. Comments welcome, most common draft format will be Trunkers' Grid Draft, which is really cool.
Thanks for your input Eidolon, I'm finding that I'm still doing a fair bit of tweaks to get things how I want.
Something I'm having issue with is that most often I'm doing a 2-person grid draft with my wife and neither of us seem to favour the full on aggro strategy so those cards feel slightly wasted as often just get left behind or end up in sideboards. I think they will play better when I manage to get a bunch of friends round to draft and I know supporting aggro is important so I'm still just feeling things out.
Well I'm updating this thread for my move to 450 powered, but I can't find a way to edit my title. I'm sure it's possible as others do it to highlight changes after a set etc.
Well the endless tinkering continues. Was considering adding the Splinter Twin combo into my cube for a bit of a change. Got a bit of play in the blue section for the additions but I'm struggling with what to cut in red.
I feel that I could probably cut Destructive Force and Devil's Play but I'm not sure what else or if they are correct cuts. Having 3 "wildfires" has been pretty fun. Jaya hasn't really turned up much and doesn't get much love on these forums but she's one of my few pet cards in the cube and I'd like to keep her around for more testing.
Cut Faithless Looting + Sneak Attack, since these cards don't fit into what red is trying to do in this cube. After the inclusion of 2 additional finishers, my cut #3 would be Devil's Play.
Thanks for the advice guys, gave me some good things to think about. Something I'm curious about though is the comment above by Eidolon. You say that those cards aren't what red's trying to do in my cube but I'm slightly unclear why this is the case.
I guess due to the focus on aggro red doesn't have many good targets for sneak attack, but does this matter when it could get targets from a supplementary colour? Or does the isolated effect in red mean the cards rarely gonna be used? It's a recent addition and hasn't turned up in play yet.
I figured faithless looting would be a decent card in an aggro deck which could loot away excess lands for more action, although I guess my last aggro deck was so land light that it wouldn't ever have the lands available to loot.
In theory I don't have an issue dropping these two cards, which I didn't realise until you suggested them (thanks), however, one side effect would be that red would no longer have anything to support a reanimator deck, is this likely to be a problem? We've only had on true combo reanimator deck and it was grixis, with faithless looting being a really strong card, even Jaya was there too but wasn't drawn. I have recently been toying with adding Firestorm to further support red aided reanimator.
Thanks for the explanation Eidolon, that makes a fair bit of sense to me now. Gonna cut the looting for sure, will prolly also cut sneak attack as reading over the SCD for it made me realise how narrow it is in my cube now that I've reduced the super ramp stuff.
Time for some updates with some proper information for once.
Format I'm using is: Out ---> In
White
I wanted to give the ranger a try and white had almost as many 6cc+ creatures as green which felt a bit odd. Angel of Serenity was the weakest of the bunch (at least while I'm still testing Sunblast Angel), Ranger comes in for one of the more fringe "anthem" effects to help give a decent late game target for the Ranger. Lone missionary is a nice role player in a few deck as well has having a decent EtB effect for blinking.
Angel of Serenity ---> Ranger of Eos
Pianna, Nomad Captain ---> Weathered Wayfarer
---> Lone Missionary
Blue
From reading over the blue tempo threads I've decided that Commander and Student are rather narrow and these roles are better served by whatever colour blue is paired with. Kira may come back but I'd like her for my EDH cube at the moment. Isle and S&T were fairly high variance cards for us, I like the land but no one would touch S&T. :-( Cards brought in are for supporting Kiki-Jiki/Splinter Twin combos, blink and reanimator.
Coralhelm Commander ---> Perstermite
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner ---> Deceiver Exarch
Sakashima's Student ---> Waterfront Bouncer
Shelldock Isle ---> Sea-Gate Oracle
Show and Tell ---> Crystal Shard
---> Thirst for Knowledge
Black
After looking at almost a dozen cards only one change was made here, Traitor was the worse of the self-recurring cards and Entomb is perfect for signalling that reanimator is supported. I am slightly concerned that I may be one or two fatties short for supporting reanimator (and sneak attack in red).
Nether Traitor ---> Entomb
---> Murderous Redcap
Red
As mentioned in blue, Kiki-Jiki and Splinter twin have come in to try out some combo fun. Recruiter helps tutor the peaces as well as being fairly nuts in a blink deck. Cutting the 7 mana "wildfire" was fairly obvious, devil's play is weaker with the reduction in super ramp and smash was the third cut when I really struggled to find one. (Eidolon: I ended up changing my mind as sneak attack and looting help red support reanimator, I'm open to suggestions to help them "match" the rest of my red section if you still feel they don't.)
Destructive Force ---> Imperial Recruiter
Devil's Play ---> Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Smash to Smithereens ---> Splinter Twin
---> Rakdos Cackler
I'm going to have to try and force red aggro with as many of the land destruction spells as I can as although I know why they are important, having never seen them in action makes them stick out a bit as 3 isolated effects in the whole cube.
Green
I've decided to try and support green aggro by dialing back on the super ramp since that didn't seem to be doing very well and we've started to enjoy having a couple of good aggro decks in each draft.
Awakening Zone ---> Wolfbitten Captive
Beast Within ---> Wild Nacatl
Chameleon Colossus ---> Wild Mongrel
Channel ---> Wild Dogs
Devoted Druid ---> Wall of Roots
Eureka ---> Rancor
Gaea's Cradle ---> Jungle Lion
Indrik Stomphowler ---> Uktabi Orangutan
Oracle of Mul Daya ---> Experiment One
Somberwald Sage ---> Spawnwrithe
Troll Ascetic ---> Wolfir Avenger
---> Kitchen Finks
Guild
I've felt that there's plenty artifact mana in my cube to support the arifact deck and as such I've cut the WU and UB talismen along with the UR signet since I try to have the cards in my guild pull drafters into their colours and the mana rocks were support only and sometimes pilfered by other decks. Moorland Haunt is currently a placeholder, also thinking about Sphinx's Revelation in that spot but want to see what we get in Dragon's Maze first. Likewise my Rakdos section is now fair high CMC with Olivia, Aristocrat and Bit Blast, will probably end up cutting 1 or both of the 5 drops. Pernicious Deed was my cut from Golgari since I think it'll be more valuable in my EDH cube. I've cut all custom cards from the cube so although the enemy man-lands were fun they have been cut for the eventide filters as they are my favorite cycle of non-basics, even if they are not subjectively "best" for each guild.
Talisman of Progress ---> Moorland Haunt
Talisman of Dominance ---> Psychatog
Murderous Redcap ---> Falkenrath Aristocrat
Rakdos Cackler ---> Bituminous Blast
Domri Rade ---> Kird Ape
Kitchen Finks ---> Loam Lion
Creekwood Liege ---> Deathrite Shaman
Pernicious Deed ---> Life / Death
Izzet Signet ---> Fire / Ice
Enemy Man-Land x 5 ---> Eventide Filter-Lands x 5
Colourless
Simple enough here, the Eldrazi were fun in thoery but were rarely ever picked, I think I managed to hardcast Kozilek once and that was it. Workshop was a bit too swingy for us and Karn is the cut to test the full set of masticores.
Karn, Silver Golem ---> Razormane Masticore
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth ---> Masticore
Mishra's Workshop ---> Icy Manipulator
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre ---> Porcelain Legionnaire
My experiment with the custom lands was fun but in the end they were a bit odd and due to their high activation costs only grindy mid-range or control decks were interested in them. These 10 cuts allowed me to bring back in the five 5-colour fixing lands to my colourless section and add 1 card to each mono-colour.
Custom Lands x 10
---> City of Brass
---> Gemstone Mine
---> Grand Coliseum
---> Thawing Glaciers
---> Undiscovered Paradise
---> +1 card per mono-colour section
Thanks for reading.
p.s. Do people prefer having all cards tagged to magiccards.info? I've noticed that people aren't as strict with it here as in the Commander forums.
Some decklists and brief game comments for folks who are interested. Fairly standard aggro vs control from a 2-player tenchester draft (which has become our usual format).
My wife beat me 3-2 with the aggro deck, didn't realised she had only 14 land until I broke the decks up for this. Most games were similar, she floods the board with a bunch of 2 power 1 drops and either smashes my face in or gets slowed down enough by my 3 drops that I can stabilise. My advice was to draft the white removal pretty high since my previous aggro decks have had no answer to a big creature other than 2-for-1-ing myself with combat damage and a burn spell. Worked pretty well as she managed to clear out my blockers most games and I think my turn-3 Man-o'-War was Arc Trailed in every game.
Awesome moments: I drop a risky Bitterblossom while at around 10 life to fully stabilise and hopefully provide a win-con, I forget the exact response but some combination of removal and pump manages to smash me down to 3 life and a post combat Sulfuric Vortex seals the deal thanks to the blossom.
My fun plays were planning my turn, brainstorming with Jace (amazed how relevant a 4-mana unsummon + gain 2 life can be) into I think both Bone Shredder and Phyrexian Metamorph while at 7 mana. I even got to trade both off when she decided to swing into them in her turn so didn't have to pay echo. Oh and top decking Earthquake off Library with 3 mana remaining to wrath her board leaving me with 2 faeries and a bitterblossom, I lost that game in the end though. :-(
In the first 2 or 3 games I was running Mana Leak and Condescend but between bad timing and her always hitting her first 3 - 4 mana drops on time I cut them for Reassembling Skeleon and Frost Titan to provide an extra early blocker and a finisher, would people agree with these changes? I often see pro's cutting counterspells vs aggro are they just always bad?
Thanks for reading, I appreciate any comments you may have, including ways of improving my draft reports.
This section of ten cards was a cut back in my gold sections, I was running 1 more card per guild than the average cube and it was starting to show as the gold cards were often passed early in a draft to keep the players more open. Also my gold philosophy is to run cards that will draw someone into these colours, although most guilds have 1 card which is more of a reward for being in those colours.
Most of these cards were fairly easy cuts since they are often labeled as 5th best and below when discussed. Moorland Haunt was always just a placeholder, my group has never taken to the Tog and the naya aggro dudes don't seem necessary for those decks to work.
Moorland Haunt ---> Land Tax
Psychatog ---> Angel of Serenity
Olivia Voldaren ---> Treachery
Kird Ape ---> Inkwell Leviathan
Loam Lion ---> Blood Scrivener
Unburial Rites ---> Griselbrand
Life / Death ---> Smash to Smithereens
Simic Charm ---> Devil's Play
Desolate Lighthouse ---> Oracle of Mul Daya
Aurelia's Fury ---> Thornling
Next was a bit of a shake up in blue and some tweaks elsewhere.
Frost Titan ---> Morphling
Keiga, the Tide Star ---> Aetherling
Thirst for Knowledge ---> Consecrated Sphinx
Gifts Ungiven ---> Desertion
Decided that I'd like a change of finishers to try something new and the shapeshifter-lings get some good feedback (although morphling seems to be love it or hate it). Gifts has been in and out of the cube more times than I can count by this point, amazing in a dedicated reanimator deck (less now that I've cut Unburial Rites) but the "value" gifts never appealed to people, it's best use I've seen was being pitched to Force of Will to counter my turn 3 Tinkers.
Wild Nacatl ---> Basking Rootwalla
Wild Mongrel ---> Scavenging Ooze
Bituminous Blast ---> Spike Jester
Maelstrom Pulse ---> Pernicious Deed
Simic Sky Swallower ---> Prime Speaker Zegana
Fire / Ice ---> Ral Zarek
Mortarpod ---> Engineered Explosives
Spellskite ---> Chrome Mox
Sphinx of the Steel Wind ---> Guardian Idol
Not too much to say on the last few cards, most are just to have a change or to better reinforce what i want a guild to be doing. Added two more mana rocks as they can be a bit hard to get when I manage to get a good number of drafters.
I made these changes a few weeks ago now but only had 1 draft since then due to work and life being busy. Looking at the changes now I'm not sure why I added Basking Rootwalla over Wolfbitten Captive. Anyone got an opinion on that comparison?
Mostly good but there's a lot I don't like as well.
I'll mention 'tog should not get cut but let's move on.
I think Kird Ape is absolutely necessary if you want Rg aggro to be a thing and even if you don't it's fine in midrange. I rate it the second best Gruul card.
I know a lot of cubists cut Gifts Ungiven but I still don't get why. It's totally solid and always gives value. Desertion costs too much; it's really difficult to leave 5 mana open.
I agree you should be running Scavenging Ooze but not at the price of Wild Mongrel or Wild Nacatl. Those cards are really, really good.
Why would you cut Maelstrom Pulse? And I like Sky Swallower much more than Zegana. Aside from the other reasons, it's a much better Natural Order and reanimation target.
First of all, thanks for the comments, I always appreciate people taking the time to discuss my cube.
After responding I'm realising that I may be coming over a bit negative to your comments but I'm just explaining why I've cut cards. I'm very open to being convinced why I may be wrong.
Mostly good but there's a lot I don't like as well.
I'll mention 'tog should not get cut but let's move on.
From what I've read the forums seem to be a bit split on 'tog, I've ran him and cut him and ran him again to aid reanimator and he never sees play, doesn't even get drafted very often. As such i don't really have much experience with him but it just looks like he'll only be really big once. In the end with 4 slots in my cube I like Tezz 2 to support the artifact deck (pet deck of mine), Baleful Strix is just solid value and is an artifact, Finkel and Duskmantle Seer are just much more appealing my me and my group.
I may slip 'tog into my multicolour cube and see if that helps show why he's so good.
I think Kird Ape is absolutely necessary if you want Rg aggro to be a thing and even if you don't it's fine in midrange. I rate it the second best Gruul card.
Again the 3 Naya "land matters" 1-drops seem to have their lovers and haters here, I have ~10 1-drop aggro dudes split between red and green which feels like it's enough. If this proves to not be the case then the Ape will likely return. Would you'd drop Kessig Wolf Run for the Ape? Not a lot of folks play the land but I like offering the spell-lands where possible.
I know a lot of cubists cut Gifts Ungiven but I still don't get why. It's totally solid and always gives value. Desertion costs too much; it's really difficult to leave 5 mana open.
It's just proved unpopular with my group, people draft it then look at it during deckbuilding and can't see what kinda pile would be good as often when you use it for a specific card then that card just ends up in the yard and building a pile to give you a specific card regardless of what the opponent chooses is actually pretty tricky. I've read some good things about Desertion so I thought I'd give it a try, I may well end up too difficult to keep the mana up but worth a test.
I agree you should be running Scavenging Ooze but not at the price of Wild Mongrel or Wild Nacatl. Those cards are really, really good.
Wild Nacatl has the same pros and cons as Kird Ape in my view so it's cut for the time being to see if its necessary. Mongrel doesn't do enough in my opinion, discarding a card for +1/+1 isn't worth it unless you're exploiting the graveyard and although this mean your 2-drop can trade up etc the cost in cards just makes it unappealing in my view.
Why would you cut Maelstrom Pulse? And I like Sky Swallower much more than Zegana. Aside from the other reasons, it's a much better Natural Order and reanimation target.
The Golgari guild could simply be 4 cards reading "destroy non-creature permanent" which would be pretty boring so Lotleth Troll and Deathrite Shaman give a bit of variety to the guild. I felt that Deed should stay being an effective wrath so choice game down to Pulse and Vraska. Pulse is likely to be a 1-for-1 in my cube as tokens are varied and often trade off quickly, Vraska's WCS is a 1-for-1 that gains 2 life and she can be a whole lot better so I decided to keep her around for a bit more testing.
The swap for Zegana was mosty because I think she's really cool and wanted a bit of a change. It's highly likely that she'll move out into one of my other cubes after some testing (she's prolly the best simic general for EDH cube).
Thanks again for the thoughts, please feel free to propose some counterpoints to my views above as I'm always tweaking my list and know that some of my choices are different from the forum's "norm."
First of all, thanks for the comments, I always appreciate people taking the time to discuss my cube.
After responding I'm realising that I may be coming over a bit negative to your comments but I'm just explaining why I've cut cards. I'm very open to being convinced why I may be wrong.
Oh it's fine. Don't worry about. I have the same thought when I'm giving feedback. I hate to say bad things about the changes a fellow cubist put so much time into.
From what I've read the forums seem to be a bit split on 'tog, I've ran him and cut him and ran him again to aid reanimator and he never sees play, doesn't even get drafted very often. As such i don't really have much experience with him but it just looks like he'll only be really big once. In the end with 4 slots in my cube I like Tezz 2 to support the artifact deck (pet deck of mine), Baleful Strix is just solid value and is an artifact, Finkel and Duskmantle Seer are just much more appealing my me and my group.
There is a split on 'tog, but I think it's awesome. I think it's the first or second best Dimir card. The thing about him is you don't need him to be really big. You need your opponent to not know how big you are willing to make him. Also, combo him with Upheaval or something similar for insanity. I'd run it over Strix.
Again the 3 Naya "land matters" 1-drops seem to have their lovers and haters here, I have ~10 1-drop aggro dudes split between red and green which feels like it's enough. If this proves to not be the case then the Ape will likely return. Would you'd drop Kessig Wolf Run for the Ape? Not a lot of folks play the land but I like offering the spell-lands where possible.
Yes, I'd definitely run Kird Ape over Wolf-Run. I haven't run the numbers on how many 1-drops you need, but Kird Ape is one of the better ones. There are very, very few creatures that attack as a 2/3 on turn 2.
It's just proved unpopular with my group, people draft it then look at it during deckbuilding and can't see what kinda pile would be good as often when you use it for a specific card then that card just ends up in the yard and building a pile to give you a specific card regardless of what the opponent chooses is actually pretty tricky. I've read some good things about Desertion so I thought I'd give it a try, I may well end up too difficult to keep the mana up but worth a test.
Does your group never use Gifts for raw card advantage? Just get your four best cards and let your opponent struggle to figure out what you really wanted. Or to pitch a fatty or two for reanimation? I ran Desertion and it was really disappointing. I hope it fares better for you.
Wild Nacatl has the same pros and cons as Kird Ape in my view so it's cut for the time being to see if its necessary. Mongrel doesn't do enough in my opinion, discarding a card for +1/+1 isn't worth it unless you're exploiting the graveyard and although this mean your 2-drop can trade up etc the cost in cards just makes it unappealing in my view.
What I said for Kird Ape applies to Nacatl, only there's a small chance it can swing for 3 on turn 2. In my opinion, Mongrel does so much for 2 mana. As long as you have cards in hand, combat math is difficult for your opponent. He teams up nicely with Squee, Bloodghast, Gravecrawler, and others. He's an awesome reanimation enabler. His color changing ability can be surprising relevant (see Swords of X and Y).
I felt that Deed should stay being an effective wrath so choice game down to Pulse and Vraska. Pulse is likely to be a 1-for-1 in my cube as tokens are varied and often trade off quickly, Vraska's WCS is a 1-for-1 that gains 2 life and she can be a whole lot better so I decided to keep her around for a bit more testing.
Pulse is far better than Vraska. You are forgetting that Pulse kills whatever you need dead two turns earlier than Vraska. Pulse is almost a Vindicate. Do you think there are too many Vindicates in cube?
There is a split on 'tog, but I think it's awesome. I think it's the first or second best Dimir card. The thing about him is you don't need him to be really big. You need your opponent to not know how big you are willing to make him. Also, combo him with Upheaval or something similar for insanity. I'd run it over Strix.
In my opinion, Mongrel does so much for 2 mana. As long as you have cards in hand, combat math is difficult for your opponent. He teams up nicely with Squee, Bloodghast, Gravecrawler, and others. He's an awesome reanimation enabler. His color changing ability can be surprising relevant (see Swords of X and Y).
Both these cards have similar "trade cards for a pump" ability. Mongrel may well come back in when I cut some of the cuter test cards at 3cc, i.e. Spawnwrithe. What I may do is build a test deck which includes 'tog and see how it plays out, Strix is just pure value that very few blue/black decks would turn down but in the end it is replaceable.
Yes, I'd definitely run Kird Ape over Wolf-Run. I haven't run the numbers on how many 1-drops you need, but Kird Ape is one of the better ones. There are very, very few creatures that attack as a 2/3 on turn 2.
What I said for Kird Ape applies to Nacatl, only there's a small chance it can swing for 3 on turn 2.
I've ran wtwlf123's "aggro maths" on my cube (keep meaning to add it into the OP. Kird Ape and Loam Lion only contribute a small amount to the maths since they only fit in 1 deck out of the 4 possible 2-colour aggro combinations. The maths says I'm currently running enough to support aggro when half my cube or more is being drafted.
To be honest, I think you are probably right in saying I should cut the Wolf Run, it's been in since the start and I don't think it's done much at all. Good in theory but hasn't seemed to pan out.
If I do bring the Ape back in Nacatl will probably follow. Do you have any thoughts on Loam Lion?
Does your group never use Gifts for raw card advantage? Just get your four best cards and let your opponent struggle to figure out what you really wanted. Or to pitch a fatty or two for reanimation? I ran Desertion and it was really disappointing. I hope it fares better for you.
I've noticed this weird effects a few times, you can start with a fine card then add a narrow or odd ability at which point the card becomes all about the ability and people forget that the card was already good enough and that the ability is just gravy.
A card that is effectively a double demonic tutor at instant speed is pretty good, I think we're focusing too much on the graveyard interactions. I tend to thick of tutors as ways to find answers (maybe due to playing a lot of EDH in the past?) so pro-active use of Gifts doesn't tend to occur to me. Looking at it this way it is really good. Desertion may well get shuffled over to my EDH cube soon.
Pulse is far better than Vraska. You are forgetting that Pulse kills whatever you need dead two turns earlier than Vraska. Pulse is almost a Vindicate. Do you think there are too many Vindicates in cube?
Fair point, I'm probably just getting drawn in by the shiny card type here. Making this swap would free Vraska up for EDH of Gold cube too.
Funny how when you build a cube it looks fine, then after playtesting you find all these glitches and sub-par cards. After 2 or 3 iterations you end up with a solid core with kinda amorphous "edges" where a bunch of cards are "good enough" and the choice of which to include is what gives your cube its own flavour.
Sick. That's why I love Gifts. I once Gift'ed for Academy Ruins, Volrath's Stronghold, Razormane Masticore, and Ring of Gix. That was fun. Gifting for three nasty lands and Crucible/Loam can be fun too.
Cube Size: 360 Cards
Breakdown: 50 Each Color, 50 Colorless, 60 Guild
Standard or Theme Cube: Standard
Average Draft: Few drafts a week as 2-player drafts, we generally use the pancake drafting format right now. We used to play tenchester but it was starting to get stale as with only 2 players you can just choose what to draft and get a good version of it 95% of the time.
Cube CMC: 2.58
1 Dryad Militant
1 Elite Vanguard
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Mother of Runes
1 Savannah Lions
1 Soldier of the Pantheon
1 Student of Warfare
//2CC
1 Accorder Paladin
1 Imposing Sovereign
1 Kor Skyfisher
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 Soltari Trooper
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Wall of Omens
1 Blade Splicer
1 Flickerwisp
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Mirror Entity
1 Soltari Champion
1 Spectral Procession
//4CC
1 Kor Sanctifiers
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Restoration Angel
//5CC
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
1 Reveillark
1 Sun Titan
//7CC
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Land Tax
1 Mana Tithe
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
//2CC
1 Balance
1 Disenchant
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Unexpectedly Absent
1 Oblivion Ring
//4CC
1 Ajani Goldmane
1 Armageddon
1 Day of Judgment
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Ravages of War
1 Wrath of God
1 Gideon Jura
//6CC
1 Catastrophe
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Enclave Cryptologist
//2CC
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Waterfront Bouncer
//3CC
1 Aether Adept
1 Man-o'-War
1 Serendib Efreet
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Master of Waves
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
//5CC
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Morphling
1 Mulldrifter
1 Ætherling
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Daze
1 Force of Will
//1CC
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Force Spike
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
//2CC
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Memory Lapse
1 Miscalculation
1 Remand
1 Time Walk
1 Jace Beleren
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Vedalken Shackles
//4CC
1 Control Magic
1 Cryptic Command
1 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Opposition
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Treachery
//6CC
1 Time Spiral
1 Upheaval
//XCC
1 Condescend
1 Carnophage
1 Diregraf Ghoul
1 Gravecrawler
1 Sarcomancy
1 Tormented Hero
1 Vampire Lacerator
//2CC
1 Blood Scrivener
1 Bloodghast
1 Dark Confidant
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Pack Rat
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Geralf's Messenger
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Ophiomancer
1 Vampire Nighthawk
//4CC
1 Braids, Cabal Minion
1 Nekrataal
1 Skinrender
1 Shriekmaw
//6CC
1 Grave Titan
1 Dark Ritual
1 Dismember
1 Duress
1 Entomb
1 Reanimate
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vampiric Tutor
//2CC
1 Animate Dead
1 Bitterblossom
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Smallpox
1 Curse of Shallow Graves
1 Hero's Downfall
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Necromancy
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Pox
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Toxic Deluge
//4CC
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Damnation
1 Diabolic Servitude
1 Death Cloud
1 Profane Command
1 Firedrinker Satyr
1 Goblin Guide
1 Goblin Welder
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Jackal Pup
1 Stromkirk Noble
//2CC
1 Ash Zealot
1 Gore-House Chainwalker
1 Kargan Dragonlord
1 Lightning Mauler
1 Stormblood Berserker
1 Young Pyromancer
1 Fire Imp
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Keldon Vandals
1 Manic Vandal
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
//4CC
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Hellrider
1 Hero of Oxid Ridge
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
//6CC
1 Inferno Titan
1 Burst Lightning
1 Firebolt
1 Firestorm
1 Lightning Bolt
//2CC
1 Arc Trail
1 Incinerate
1 Goblin Bombardment
1 Lightning Strike
1 Magma Jet
1 Char
1 Flames of the Firebrand
1 Molten Rain
1 Pillage
1 Staggershock
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Wheel of Fortune
//4CC
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
1 Sneak Attack
1 Chandra Nalaar
//6CC
1 Burning of Xinye
1 Wildfire
//XCC
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Tempt with Vengeance
1 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Noble Hierarch
//2CC
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 Sylvan Caryatid
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wall of Roots
1 Call of the Herd
1 Eternal Witness
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Yavimaya Elder
//4CC
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
1 Vengevine
1 Wickerbough Elder
//5CC
1 Acidic Slime
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Genesis
1 Kalonian Hydra
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
//7CC
1 Hornet Queen
//8CC
1 Woodfall Primus
//XCC
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Rancor
//2CC
1 Life from the Loam
1 Nostalgic Dreams
1 Regrowth
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
//4CC
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Natural Order
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Plow Under
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Tundra
1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Underground Sea
1 Watery Grave
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Rakdos Cackler
1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Sarkhan Vol
1 Xenagos, the Reveler
1 Taiga
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Voice of Resurgence
1 Temple Garden
1 Windswept Heath
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Vindicate
1 Marsh Flats
1 Scrubland
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Mystic Snake
1 Trygon Predator
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Tropical Island
1 Ral Zarek
1 Steam Augury
1 Steam Vents
1 Volcanic Island
1 Boros Charm
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Plateau
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Porcelain Legionnaire
//3CC
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
//4CC
1 Masticore
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Batterskull
1 Precursor Golem
//6CC
1 Triskelion
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Myr Battlesphere
//8CC
1 Sundering Titan
1 Bonesplitter
1 Skullclamp
//2CC
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Grafted Wargear
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Black Lotus
1 Chrome Mox
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
//2CC
1 Grim Monolith
1 Mind Stone
//3CC
1 Coalition Relic
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Cursed Scroll
//2CC
1 Ankh of Mishra
1 Winter Orb
//3CC
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mimic Vat
1 Tangle Wire
1 Nevinyrall's Disk
1 Smokestack
//5CC
1 Erratic Portal
1 Icy Manipulator
1 Memory Jar
1 Trading Post
1 Karn Liberated
//XCC
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Kjeldoran Outpost
1 Kor Haven
//Blue
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Dakmor Salvage
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
//Red
1 Barbarian Ring
1 Ghitu Encampment
1 Keldon Megaliths
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Treetop Village
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Gavony Township
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Svogthos, the Restless Tomb
1 Slayers' Stronghold
1 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Dust Bowl
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Mutavault
1 Rishadan Port
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Mishra's Workshop
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolarian Academy
May 2013
December 2013
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Eidolon's Cube List Comparison
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The other thing that jumped into my eye is your land subsection in the colourless section. Some staples are missing. For comparison my colourless classified lands:
If you want statistcal comparison data check eidolons cube comparison thread:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=414478
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
I made a decision fairly early on to exclude shadow as a keyword. I preferred the knight-style 2 drops more than the shadow ones so it made me think of shadow as unblockable, cause I generally forget they can't block non-shadow, not that aggro decks are likely concerned with blocking.
If I expand the aggro support for white I'd prolly bring in the 2-drops along with the Soltari Champion.
I was aware that I'd missed out a lot of the powerful non-basic lands, I just kinda ran out of room for them. I could probably trim some of the bigger mana stones to make room.
Do you think the Vivid cycle is necessary or will it promote control too much?
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I would fully support your decision to cut the vivids and some expensive mana rocks for more non-basic utility lands. Things like Strip Mine and Library of Alexandria are staples of the staples in powered cubes; definite must includes. The vivids are not needed at 360. The dual/fetch density is high enough for colour fixing in drafts. The expensive mana rocks don't ramp at meaningful points of the curve, unless you run some kind of dragon cube. 4 mana seems to be the magic number that most control decks need to reach asap (wrath and friends) to keep the game under control.
EDIT: If you play mostly sealed deck, a slightly higher number of colour fixing may be desired. This is the reason why my cube runs four fixers per guild at 360 instead of the usual three.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Mutavault
1 Rishadan Port
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Grove
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
Also decided to swap out Sigarda, Host of Herons for Qasali Pridemage as the angel is a fairly replaceable beat stick unless used against a black stax deck... The Pridemage is nice support for aggro/mid-range.
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http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
Thread Cubetutor
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http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/other-formats/mtgo-pauper/developing/647850-primer-angler-delver
Modern: Sultai Death's Shadow
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/deck-creation-modern/773885-sultai-deaths-shadow-bug-aggro]
Legacy: Snake&Show
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?27217-Deck-Sneak-and-Show
Discuss my Cube @ MTGsalvation:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=207309
Regarding the Lantern, I also really like it but I feel the ramp from worn powerstone is more important in going from 3 to 6. Depending on how the cube plays it may go back in, but I think it's a reasonable cut to start with in a vacuum.
I've never been sold on the original masticore, I've heard it's awesome but I've never played with it and I actually have copies of the other 2 so decided to see how they perform first.
Did a test draft on tappedout.net against bots (I know it's not the best but only option atm) and I managed to force a reasonable R/w aggro deck, decided to see if I could as I'm not sure I have the critical density of 1 and 2 drops for aggro.
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Something I'm having issue with is that most often I'm doing a 2-person grid draft with my wife and neither of us seem to favour the full on aggro strategy so those cards feel slightly wasted as often just get left behind or end up in sideboards. I think they will play better when I manage to get a bunch of friends round to draft and I know supporting aggro is important so I'm still just feeling things out.
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Help please?
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I want to add Splinter Twin, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Imperial Recruiter with the recruiter not being essential but I want to try him oout and he aids the combo.
I feel that I could probably cut Destructive Force and Devil's Play but I'm not sure what else or if they are correct cuts. Having 3 "wildfires" has been pretty fun. Jaya hasn't really turned up much and doesn't get much love on these forums but she's one of my few pet cards in the cube and I'd like to keep her around for more testing.
Thanks for any thoughts you can offer.
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Cheers,
rant
My Cube
CubeCobra: https://cubecobra.com/cube/overview/5f5d0310ed602310515d4c32
Cube Tutor: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1963
Thanks for the advice guys, gave me some good things to think about. Something I'm curious about though is the comment above by Eidolon. You say that those cards aren't what red's trying to do in my cube but I'm slightly unclear why this is the case.
I guess due to the focus on aggro red doesn't have many good targets for sneak attack, but does this matter when it could get targets from a supplementary colour? Or does the isolated effect in red mean the cards rarely gonna be used? It's a recent addition and hasn't turned up in play yet.
I figured faithless looting would be a decent card in an aggro deck which could loot away excess lands for more action, although I guess my last aggro deck was so land light that it wouldn't ever have the lands available to loot.
In theory I don't have an issue dropping these two cards, which I didn't realise until you suggested them (thanks), however, one side effect would be that red would no longer have anything to support a reanimator deck, is this likely to be a problem? We've only had on true combo reanimator deck and it was grixis, with faithless looting being a really strong card, even Jaya was there too but wasn't drawn. I have recently been toying with adding Firestorm to further support red aided reanimator.
Thanks for the thoughts once again.
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Format I'm using is: Out ---> In
White
I wanted to give the ranger a try and white had almost as many 6cc+ creatures as green which felt a bit odd. Angel of Serenity was the weakest of the bunch (at least while I'm still testing Sunblast Angel), Ranger comes in for one of the more fringe "anthem" effects to help give a decent late game target for the Ranger. Lone missionary is a nice role player in a few deck as well has having a decent EtB effect for blinking.
Angel of Serenity ---> Ranger of Eos
Pianna, Nomad Captain ---> Weathered Wayfarer
---> Lone Missionary
Blue
From reading over the blue tempo threads I've decided that Commander and Student are rather narrow and these roles are better served by whatever colour blue is paired with. Kira may come back but I'd like her for my EDH cube at the moment. Isle and S&T were fairly high variance cards for us, I like the land but no one would touch S&T. :-( Cards brought in are for supporting Kiki-Jiki/Splinter Twin combos, blink and reanimator.
Coralhelm Commander ---> Perstermite
Kira, Great Glass-Spinner ---> Deceiver Exarch
Sakashima's Student ---> Waterfront Bouncer
Shelldock Isle ---> Sea-Gate Oracle
Show and Tell ---> Crystal Shard
---> Thirst for Knowledge
Black
After looking at almost a dozen cards only one change was made here, Traitor was the worse of the self-recurring cards and Entomb is perfect for signalling that reanimator is supported. I am slightly concerned that I may be one or two fatties short for supporting reanimator (and sneak attack in red).
Nether Traitor ---> Entomb
---> Murderous Redcap
Red
As mentioned in blue, Kiki-Jiki and Splinter twin have come in to try out some combo fun. Recruiter helps tutor the peaces as well as being fairly nuts in a blink deck. Cutting the 7 mana "wildfire" was fairly obvious, devil's play is weaker with the reduction in super ramp and smash was the third cut when I really struggled to find one. (Eidolon: I ended up changing my mind as sneak attack and looting help red support reanimator, I'm open to suggestions to help them "match" the rest of my red section if you still feel they don't.)
Destructive Force ---> Imperial Recruiter
Devil's Play ---> Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Smash to Smithereens ---> Splinter Twin
---> Rakdos Cackler
I'm going to have to try and force red aggro with as many of the land destruction spells as I can as although I know why they are important, having never seen them in action makes them stick out a bit as 3 isolated effects in the whole cube.
Green
I've decided to try and support green aggro by dialing back on the super ramp since that didn't seem to be doing very well and we've started to enjoy having a couple of good aggro decks in each draft.
Awakening Zone ---> Wolfbitten Captive
Beast Within ---> Wild Nacatl
Chameleon Colossus ---> Wild Mongrel
Channel ---> Wild Dogs
Devoted Druid ---> Wall of Roots
Eureka ---> Rancor
Gaea's Cradle ---> Jungle Lion
Indrik Stomphowler ---> Uktabi Orangutan
Oracle of Mul Daya ---> Experiment One
Somberwald Sage ---> Spawnwrithe
Troll Ascetic ---> Wolfir Avenger
---> Kitchen Finks
Guild
I've felt that there's plenty artifact mana in my cube to support the arifact deck and as such I've cut the WU and UB talismen along with the UR signet since I try to have the cards in my guild pull drafters into their colours and the mana rocks were support only and sometimes pilfered by other decks. Moorland Haunt is currently a placeholder, also thinking about Sphinx's Revelation in that spot but want to see what we get in Dragon's Maze first. Likewise my Rakdos section is now fair high CMC with Olivia, Aristocrat and Bit Blast, will probably end up cutting 1 or both of the 5 drops. Pernicious Deed was my cut from Golgari since I think it'll be more valuable in my EDH cube. I've cut all custom cards from the cube so although the enemy man-lands were fun they have been cut for the eventide filters as they are my favorite cycle of non-basics, even if they are not subjectively "best" for each guild.
Talisman of Progress ---> Moorland Haunt
Talisman of Dominance ---> Psychatog
Murderous Redcap ---> Falkenrath Aristocrat
Rakdos Cackler ---> Bituminous Blast
Domri Rade ---> Kird Ape
Kitchen Finks ---> Loam Lion
Creekwood Liege ---> Deathrite Shaman
Pernicious Deed ---> Life / Death
Izzet Signet ---> Fire / Ice
Enemy Man-Land x 5 ---> Eventide Filter-Lands x 5
Colourless
Simple enough here, the Eldrazi were fun in thoery but were rarely ever picked, I think I managed to hardcast Kozilek once and that was it. Workshop was a bit too swingy for us and Karn is the cut to test the full set of masticores.
Karn, Silver Golem ---> Razormane Masticore
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth ---> Masticore
Mishra's Workshop ---> Icy Manipulator
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre ---> Porcelain Legionnaire
My experiment with the custom lands was fun but in the end they were a bit odd and due to their high activation costs only grindy mid-range or control decks were interested in them. These 10 cuts allowed me to bring back in the five 5-colour fixing lands to my colourless section and add 1 card to each mono-colour.
Custom Lands x 10
---> City of Brass
---> Gemstone Mine
---> Grand Coliseum
---> Thawing Glaciers
---> Undiscovered Paradise
---> +1 card per mono-colour section
Thanks for reading.
p.s. Do people prefer having all cards tagged to magiccards.info? I've noticed that people aren't as strict with it here as in the Commander forums.
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1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Jackal Pup
1 Rakdos Cackler
1 Savannah Lions
1 Stonewright
1 Stromkirk Noble
1 Student of Warfare
2 Keldon Marauders
2 Lightning Mauler
2 Porcelain Legionnaire
2 Precinct Captain
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Soltari Champion
3 Spectral Procession
-Spells-
1 Bonesplitter
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Path to Exile
1 Reckless Charge
2 Ankh of Mishra
2 Arc Trail
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Ravages of War
-Land-
1 Plateau
1 Rishadan Port
7 Plains
5 Moutain
2 Pack Rat
2 Reassembling Skeleton
3 Bone Shredder
3 Deceiver Exarch
3 Man-o'-War
3 Shadowmage Infiltrator
3 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Dungeon Geists
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Sower of Temptation
6 Frost Titan
-Spells-
0 Mox Diamond
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Bitterblossom
2 Go for the Throat
2 Mind Stone
3 Coalition Relic
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Vedalken Shackles
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-Land-
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Polluted Delta
1 Badlands
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Library of Alexandria
8 Island
4 Swamp
My wife beat me 3-2 with the aggro deck, didn't realised she had only 14 land until I broke the decks up for this. Most games were similar, she floods the board with a bunch of 2 power 1 drops and either smashes my face in or gets slowed down enough by my 3 drops that I can stabilise. My advice was to draft the white removal pretty high since my previous aggro decks have had no answer to a big creature other than 2-for-1-ing myself with combat damage and a burn spell. Worked pretty well as she managed to clear out my blockers most games and I think my turn-3 Man-o'-War was Arc Trailed in every game.
Awesome moments: I drop a risky Bitterblossom while at around 10 life to fully stabilise and hopefully provide a win-con, I forget the exact response but some combination of removal and pump manages to smash me down to 3 life and a post combat Sulfuric Vortex seals the deal thanks to the blossom.
My fun plays were planning my turn, brainstorming with Jace (amazed how relevant a 4-mana unsummon + gain 2 life can be) into I think both Bone Shredder and Phyrexian Metamorph while at 7 mana. I even got to trade both off when she decided to swing into them in her turn so didn't have to pay echo. Oh and top decking Earthquake off Library with 3 mana remaining to wrath her board leaving me with 2 faeries and a bitterblossom, I lost that game in the end though. :-(
In the first 2 or 3 games I was running Mana Leak and Condescend but between bad timing and her always hitting her first 3 - 4 mana drops on time I cut them for Reassembling Skeleon and Frost Titan to provide an extra early blocker and a finisher, would people agree with these changes? I often see pro's cutting counterspells vs aggro are they just always bad?
Thanks for reading, I appreciate any comments you may have, including ways of improving my draft reports.
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This section of ten cards was a cut back in my gold sections, I was running 1 more card per guild than the average cube and it was starting to show as the gold cards were often passed early in a draft to keep the players more open. Also my gold philosophy is to run cards that will draw someone into these colours, although most guilds have 1 card which is more of a reward for being in those colours.
Most of these cards were fairly easy cuts since they are often labeled as 5th best and below when discussed. Moorland Haunt was always just a placeholder, my group has never taken to the Tog and the naya aggro dudes don't seem necessary for those decks to work.
Moorland Haunt ---> Land Tax
Psychatog ---> Angel of Serenity
Olivia Voldaren ---> Treachery
Kird Ape ---> Inkwell Leviathan
Loam Lion ---> Blood Scrivener
Unburial Rites ---> Griselbrand
Life / Death ---> Smash to Smithereens
Simic Charm ---> Devil's Play
Desolate Lighthouse ---> Oracle of Mul Daya
Aurelia's Fury ---> Thornling
Next was a bit of a shake up in blue and some tweaks elsewhere.
Frost Titan ---> Morphling
Keiga, the Tide Star ---> Aetherling
Thirst for Knowledge ---> Consecrated Sphinx
Gifts Ungiven ---> Desertion
Decided that I'd like a change of finishers to try something new and the shapeshifter-lings get some good feedback (although morphling seems to be love it or hate it). Gifts has been in and out of the cube more times than I can count by this point, amazing in a dedicated reanimator deck (less now that I've cut Unburial Rites) but the "value" gifts never appealed to people, it's best use I've seen was being pitched to Force of Will to counter my turn 3 Tinkers.
Wild Nacatl ---> Basking Rootwalla
Wild Mongrel ---> Scavenging Ooze
Bituminous Blast ---> Spike Jester
Maelstrom Pulse ---> Pernicious Deed
Simic Sky Swallower ---> Prime Speaker Zegana
Fire / Ice ---> Ral Zarek
Mortarpod ---> Engineered Explosives
Spellskite ---> Chrome Mox
Sphinx of the Steel Wind ---> Guardian Idol
Not too much to say on the last few cards, most are just to have a change or to better reinforce what i want a guild to be doing. Added two more mana rocks as they can be a bit hard to get when I manage to get a good number of drafters.
I made these changes a few weeks ago now but only had 1 draft since then due to work and life being busy. Looking at the changes now I'm not sure why I added Basking Rootwalla over Wolfbitten Captive. Anyone got an opinion on that comparison?
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I'll mention 'tog should not get cut but let's move on.
I think Kird Ape is absolutely necessary if you want Rg aggro to be a thing and even if you don't it's fine in midrange. I rate it the second best Gruul card.
I know a lot of cubists cut Gifts Ungiven but I still don't get why. It's totally solid and always gives value. Desertion costs too much; it's really difficult to leave 5 mana open.
I agree you should be running Scavenging Ooze but not at the price of Wild Mongrel or Wild Nacatl. Those cards are really, really good.
Why would you cut Maelstrom Pulse? And I like Sky Swallower much more than Zegana. Aside from the other reasons, it's a much better Natural Order and reanimation target.
Cheers,
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After responding I'm realising that I may be coming over a bit negative to your comments but I'm just explaining why I've cut cards. I'm very open to being convinced why I may be wrong.
From what I've read the forums seem to be a bit split on 'tog, I've ran him and cut him and ran him again to aid reanimator and he never sees play, doesn't even get drafted very often. As such i don't really have much experience with him but it just looks like he'll only be really big once. In the end with 4 slots in my cube I like Tezz 2 to support the artifact deck (pet deck of mine), Baleful Strix is just solid value and is an artifact, Finkel and Duskmantle Seer are just much more appealing my me and my group.
I may slip 'tog into my multicolour cube and see if that helps show why he's so good.
Again the 3 Naya "land matters" 1-drops seem to have their lovers and haters here, I have ~10 1-drop aggro dudes split between red and green which feels like it's enough. If this proves to not be the case then the Ape will likely return. Would you'd drop Kessig Wolf Run for the Ape? Not a lot of folks play the land but I like offering the spell-lands where possible.
It's just proved unpopular with my group, people draft it then look at it during deckbuilding and can't see what kinda pile would be good as often when you use it for a specific card then that card just ends up in the yard and building a pile to give you a specific card regardless of what the opponent chooses is actually pretty tricky. I've read some good things about Desertion so I thought I'd give it a try, I may well end up too difficult to keep the mana up but worth a test.
Wild Nacatl has the same pros and cons as Kird Ape in my view so it's cut for the time being to see if its necessary. Mongrel doesn't do enough in my opinion, discarding a card for +1/+1 isn't worth it unless you're exploiting the graveyard and although this mean your 2-drop can trade up etc the cost in cards just makes it unappealing in my view.
The Golgari guild could simply be 4 cards reading "destroy non-creature permanent" which would be pretty boring so Lotleth Troll and Deathrite Shaman give a bit of variety to the guild. I felt that Deed should stay being an effective wrath so choice game down to Pulse and Vraska. Pulse is likely to be a 1-for-1 in my cube as tokens are varied and often trade off quickly, Vraska's WCS is a 1-for-1 that gains 2 life and she can be a whole lot better so I decided to keep her around for a bit more testing.
The swap for Zegana was mosty because I think she's really cool and wanted a bit of a change. It's highly likely that she'll move out into one of my other cubes after some testing (she's prolly the best simic general for EDH cube).
Thanks again for the thoughts, please feel free to propose some counterpoints to my views above as I'm always tweaking my list and know that some of my choices are different from the forum's "norm."
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Oh it's fine. Don't worry about. I have the same thought when I'm giving feedback. I hate to say bad things about the changes a fellow cubist put so much time into.
There is a split on 'tog, but I think it's awesome. I think it's the first or second best Dimir card. The thing about him is you don't need him to be really big. You need your opponent to not know how big you are willing to make him. Also, combo him with Upheaval or something similar for insanity. I'd run it over Strix.
Yes, I'd definitely run Kird Ape over Wolf-Run. I haven't run the numbers on how many 1-drops you need, but Kird Ape is one of the better ones. There are very, very few creatures that attack as a 2/3 on turn 2.
Does your group never use Gifts for raw card advantage? Just get your four best cards and let your opponent struggle to figure out what you really wanted. Or to pitch a fatty or two for reanimation? I ran Desertion and it was really disappointing. I hope it fares better for you.
What I said for Kird Ape applies to Nacatl, only there's a small chance it can swing for 3 on turn 2. In my opinion, Mongrel does so much for 2 mana. As long as you have cards in hand, combat math is difficult for your opponent. He teams up nicely with Squee, Bloodghast, Gravecrawler, and others. He's an awesome reanimation enabler. His color changing ability can be surprising relevant (see Swords of X and Y).
Pulse is far better than Vraska. You are forgetting that Pulse kills whatever you need dead two turns earlier than Vraska. Pulse is almost a Vindicate. Do you think there are too many Vindicates in cube?
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Both these cards have similar "trade cards for a pump" ability. Mongrel may well come back in when I cut some of the cuter test cards at 3cc, i.e. Spawnwrithe. What I may do is build a test deck which includes 'tog and see how it plays out, Strix is just pure value that very few blue/black decks would turn down but in the end it is replaceable.
I've ran wtwlf123's "aggro maths" on my cube (keep meaning to add it into the OP. Kird Ape and Loam Lion only contribute a small amount to the maths since they only fit in 1 deck out of the 4 possible 2-colour aggro combinations. The maths says I'm currently running enough to support aggro when half my cube or more is being drafted.
To be honest, I think you are probably right in saying I should cut the Wolf Run, it's been in since the start and I don't think it's done much at all. Good in theory but hasn't seemed to pan out.
If I do bring the Ape back in Nacatl will probably follow. Do you have any thoughts on Loam Lion?
I've noticed this weird effects a few times, you can start with a fine card then add a narrow or odd ability at which point the card becomes all about the ability and people forget that the card was already good enough and that the ability is just gravy.
A card that is effectively a double demonic tutor at instant speed is pretty good, I think we're focusing too much on the graveyard interactions. I tend to thick of tutors as ways to find answers (maybe due to playing a lot of EDH in the past?) so pro-active use of Gifts doesn't tend to occur to me. Looking at it this way it is really good. Desertion may well get shuffled over to my EDH cube soon.
Fair point, I'm probably just getting drawn in by the shiny card type here. Making this swap would free Vraska up for EDH of Gold cube too.
Funny how when you build a cube it looks fine, then after playtesting you find all these glitches and sub-par cards. After 2 or 3 iterations you end up with a solid core with kinda amorphous "edges" where a bunch of cards are "good enough" and the choice of which to include is what gives your cube its own flavour.
Thanks for the thoughts and discussion.
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Sick. That's why I love Gifts. I once Gift'ed for Academy Ruins, Volrath's Stronghold, Razormane Masticore, and Ring of Gix. That was fun. Gifting for three nasty lands and Crucible/Loam can be fun too.
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