So i first discovered the defender combo on my own, then later found this thread. I found the deck concept to be awesome, but even a little playtesting showed the strategy was full of holes. But with versatile cards, and multiple ways to combo with illusionist bracers i find i want to give this deck a shot again. This is my first draft of the deck, tips and suggestions would be appreciated.
So, thoughts on some of my cards: simic charm is just a more versatile mizzium skins, last time i played this deck, removal tore me to pieces. I like the gy based style the deck has now, maybe i should drop the second izzet guildmage for another trackers instinct, or another x spell.
Another idea i was tempted with was to go heavier black, run heartless summoning, and maybe better activating creatures to combo with the bracers, like mecurial chemister
And havengul lich.
I'm actually running a deck similar to this, just without the Alchemist. It relies on Clone and Infinite Reflection to either copy Biovisionary or the Axebane Guardian for mana to mill them with Increasing Confusion/ Sands of Delirium. And I use a sort of "turbofog" deckbase to survive long enough to get the combo(s). I suppose I should have the Alchemist in there, but do not have access to any at the moment. Great ideas here guys I really like to see how it's coming along.
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Magic player 1995-2006(ish), 2011-Present
Standard: GWSelesnya Aggro, GWBVoice of Servitude, R Stuffy Reckoning, UWBUnblockable Auras, UGDefenders of the Combo
Extended: G Cheat-a-Colossus Elves,BRU Infinite Heartless,R Infect, R 'Helldrazi' (Hellions/Eldrazi Tokens)
Legacy: R Goblinstorm, UR Artifacts, R Artifacts, BURWG Land Deck, etc.
Commander: BRWUGSliver Overlord, BR Tsabo Tavoc
Boros charm is a must 4 of in this deck. You can't have all those creatures out with some protection from wrath. What if you don't find a use for it? Well then I suppose using it with ludevics would be a solid wincon. And the mana should be easy even without the infinite combo.
i see only one good card from DGM that I want to jam into my deck - Dragonshift!
It's not unusual to have 5 - 6 defenders out "doing nothing", so why don't we Dragonshift and suddenly attack?!
i see only one good card from DGM that I want to jam into my deck - Dragonshift!
It's not unusual to have 5 - 6 defenders out "doing nothing", so why don't we Dragonshift and suddenly attack?!
Agreed, and was waiting for this post lol! Ive been tikering with it, and am excited- til i saw the wall hate printed lol. Still, doubt many people will sb defender hate at all. And dragonshift could be used in response to it anyway.
So RUG seems to be best then. Lets whip up some new lists and make a go of it again. Dragonshift is pERFECT for this deck, the finish we need
Gotta love decks like this how about going a slightly different route around sweepers? Immortal Servitude ! that also opens up for Debt to the Deathless as the wincon, a base consisting of something like this:
not a bad idea at all! all the key pieces are 3cmc, i love it! i might bump up the X spell +1, i like the bug versions of this list, they just seem so smooth. im going to bring one of these to the next fnm, ill post mine soon
I'm too in love with the notion of using Tracker's Instincts/Grisly Salvage + Devil's Play/Increasing Confusion to rely on Immortal Servitude, and not having haste means the opponent has a turn to respond to the combo... but then again this is the same problem with the Angel of glory's rise + Unburial Rites plan
The main problem I see is that Debt is essentially making this deck worse. It's your only wincon, so you're probably not going to cast it unless it's to win. That means the life gain does nothing for you making it an expensive fireball.
If they don't gain any life, you have to cast it for 14 to win.
You have nothing vs unblockable or 6+ power and no removal.
Murmuring Phantasm gives us a great wall at 2 that dodges Searing Spear. I almost never use Doorkeeper's ability so I think the extra toughness on this as a blocker makes it nice.
I like the Nivix Cyclops as another 4 toughness economical blocker. It has power! which was severely lacking in the walls I had in the old RUG version of the deck. Added bonus, it can pump and attack by playing spells, making it a potential win condition.
Hover Barrier and Manor Gargoyle are still solid defenders that stick around for awhile.
Dragon Shift can help make blocks better, it's frustrating when walls turn into stalls and you have to sacrifice them making blocks you'd rather not. This is a great trick and I think it serves well as combat trick for removal or overloading for a win condition.
Plasm Capture and the charms can be whatever instants or sorceries float your boat. I like Simic Charm for things like, bounce an attacker which pumps the cyclops which then kills another blocker. I like Izzet for a modicum of counterspell back-up and deck sifting.
Wolf Run & Devil's Play are more win-conditions. This is what I like about the RUG builds, I feel like there are more potential win conditions. I can just try to grind out damage with combat tricks and the cyclops, I can go more direct with Devil's Play, Wolf Run or Dragon Shift, and I can get in there from time to time with Manor Gargoyle. So many options!
I also like that the curve feel so much lower with the addition of Dragon's Maze
Through the two things you guys put together with dragon's maze into the op. seriously need to update it all with an up to date write up. Just want people to get a feel for the newer concept defender combo lists
I've been lurking the thread for a while, and finally decided to start commenting myself.
Anyway, I've been running a couple of Axebane Alchemist variants for a while now in my casual group. It started out as a pretty typical list, but I decided to use Diabolic Revelation, for budget and tutoring reasons, to find my combo pieces and finisher (Bonfire of the Damned, Sands of Delirium, etc.). A little while ago I had plans to make a grixis control, but it fell apart (lack of snapcasters). So I decided just to throw the cards I did have for grixis into the Axebane shell just to see what happened. I think it's fairly successful in my casual group. T5/6 Bolas is a house.
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Standard
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Modern
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Cheeri0s:symg::symr::symb::symu::symw:
Go infinite with defenders, or just turn all creatures into copies of Biovisionary for the win or Axebane Guardian to generate mass amounts of mana. Cast and re-cast finishers until GG.
Standard: GWSelesnya Aggro, GWBVoice of Servitude, R Stuffy Reckoning, UWBUnblockable Auras, UGDefenders of the Combo
Extended: G Cheat-a-Colossus Elves,BRU Infinite Heartless,R Infect, R 'Helldrazi' (Hellions/Eldrazi Tokens)
Legacy: R Goblinstorm, UR Artifacts, R Artifacts, BURWG Land Deck, etc.
Commander: BRWUGSliver Overlord, BR Tsabo Tavoc
I've been running this deck and actually just noticed this primer. My list includes the maze's end and gates as another win con. I might axe the gates for FNM to be more competitive, but before I do, is it worth dropping maze's end? Seems like it might be a good thing, I also dig 1 Niv Mizzet Dracogeniuis in the mix for the defender combo. Not to mention with urban evolution and Sphinx's revelation you can chain into the combo.....
I've been running this deck and actually just noticed this primer. My list includes the maze's end and gates as another win con. I might axe the gates for FNM to be more competitive, but before I do, is it worth dropping maze's end? Seems like it might be a good thing, I also dig 1 Niv Mizzet Dracogeniuis in the mix for the defender combo. Not to mention with urban evolution and Sphinx's revelation you can chain into the combo.....
i feel like maze is probably too slow, like door to nothingness. i think niv is a great great card for this deck, cuz he can be a wincon by himself, or just a slow death/CA engine. progenitor mimic is something i wanted to try myself, to copy their stuff, or axebanes. tell us what you end up with! this primer needs a redoing, i keep saying i am going to and i never end up doing it.
After the last primer like somewhere in April, I never really touched this deck style as I try another combo deck. Well, then I love the list by hackort and could try that list in my next FNM. Now where to get that gargoyle.
BUG is a great combo for us, because it gives us grisly salvage, tracker's instincts and forbidden alchemy. The wincon for bug has been just plain old mill in the form of increasing confusion. IC can be dumped to the yard from one of our filters, and be more powerful. Still, what is the alternative wincon? I like the list above that uses biovisionary. Or maybe defender combo is the deck that vraska, the unseen finally shines in- because hey, she is behind a crazy giant wall. Have a few rogue's passages in there to shove her lil poopsquirts through for an unconventional win.
Because axebane guardian makes any color mana, we can have singletons of devil's play, or kessig wolf run in the deck. @koolmage, you say you dont like the dorks, but 1 dork + infinite mana + wolf run = game. Otherwise, its good to have something that can swing. Oh wait, i guess alchemist could do that too. Hmm
I think we should pre board use 1 increasing and 1 devils play along with 1 increasing ambition. Post board bring in .... Something with flashback? Idk what can kill?
Might thing of using some aggro builds in here.
4 axebane guardian
4 galvanic alchemist
2 deathrite shaman
4 gatecreeper vine
3 ludvic's test subject
2 izzet guildmage
1 niv mizzet, dracogenius
1 tree of redemption
2 basilica guards
1 angel of glory
3 trackers instincts
1 devils play
3 izzet charm
2 simic charm
1 unburial rites
Another idea i was tempted with was to go heavier black, run heartless summoning, and maybe better activating creatures to combo with the bracers, like mecurial chemister
And havengul lich.
Standard: GW Selesnya Aggro, GWB Voice of Servitude, R Stuffy Reckoning, UWB Unblockable Auras, UG Defenders of the Combo
Extended: G Cheat-a-Colossus Elves,BRU Infinite Heartless,R Infect, R 'Helldrazi' (Hellions/Eldrazi Tokens)
Legacy: R Goblinstorm, UR Artifacts, R Artifacts, BURWG Land Deck, etc.
Commander: BRWUGSliver Overlord, BR Tsabo Tavoc
Working on putting my decks here for testplaying: http://tappedout.net/users/drunk231/
It's not unusual to have 5 - 6 defenders out "doing nothing", so why don't we Dragonshift and suddenly attack?!
Agreed, and was waiting for this post lol! Ive been tikering with it, and am excited- til i saw the wall hate printed lol. Still, doubt many people will sb defender hate at all. And dragonshift could be used in response to it anyway.
So RUG seems to be best then. Lets whip up some new lists and make a go of it again. Dragonshift is pERFECT for this deck, the finish we need
not a bad idea at all! all the key pieces are 3cmc, i love it! i might bump up the X spell +1, i like the bug versions of this list, they just seem so smooth. im going to bring one of these to the next fnm, ill post mine soon
4 Axebane Guardian
4 Galvanic Alchemist
4 Trestle Troll
4 Hover Barrier
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Arbor Elf
4 Gatecreeper Vine
3 Debt to the Deathless
4 Grisly Salvage
4 Tracker's Instincts
2 Unburial Rites
Lands:
4 Breeding Pool
4 Forest
4 Island
2 Temple Garden
2 Plains
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Swamp
mana base is just something i have thrown together for testing. i think it's getting there, but needs tweaking
If they don't gain any life, you have to cast it for 14 to win.
You have nothing vs unblockable or 6+ power and no removal.
4 Axebane Guardian
3 Galvanic Alchemist
Defenders - 12
4 Nivix Cyclops
4 Murmuring Phantasm
2 Hover Barrier
2 Manor Gargoyle
4 Dragon Shift
2 Cackling Counterpart
2 Plasm Capture
3 Izzet Charm
3 Simic Charm
2 Devil's Play
2 Kessig Wolf Run
21 Other Lands
Murmuring Phantasm gives us a great wall at 2 that dodges Searing Spear. I almost never use Doorkeeper's ability so I think the extra toughness on this as a blocker makes it nice.
I like the Nivix Cyclops as another 4 toughness economical blocker. It has power! which was severely lacking in the walls I had in the old RUG version of the deck. Added bonus, it can pump and attack by playing spells, making it a potential win condition.
Hover Barrier and Manor Gargoyle are still solid defenders that stick around for awhile.
Dragon Shift can help make blocks better, it's frustrating when walls turn into stalls and you have to sacrifice them making blocks you'd rather not. This is a great trick and I think it serves well as combat trick for removal or overloading for a win condition.
Plasm Capture and the charms can be whatever instants or sorceries float your boat. I like Simic Charm for things like, bounce an attacker which pumps the cyclops which then kills another blocker. I like Izzet for a modicum of counterspell back-up and deck sifting.
Wolf Run & Devil's Play are more win-conditions. This is what I like about the RUG builds, I feel like there are more potential win conditions. I can just try to grind out damage with combat tricks and the cyclops, I can go more direct with Devil's Play, Wolf Run or Dragon Shift, and I can get in there from time to time with Manor Gargoyle. So many options!
I also like that the curve feel so much lower with the addition of Dragon's Maze
Anyway, I've been running a couple of Axebane Alchemist variants for a while now in my casual group. It started out as a pretty typical list, but I decided to use Diabolic Revelation, for budget and tutoring reasons, to find my combo pieces and finisher (Bonfire of the Damned, Sands of Delirium, etc.). A little while ago I had plans to make a grixis control, but it fell apart (lack of snapcasters). So I decided just to throw the cards I did have for grixis into the Axebane shell just to see what happened. I think it's fairly successful in my casual group. T5/6 Bolas is a house.
:symg:All in Green:symg:
:symw::symu::symg:Ajani's Chosen:symg::symu::symw:
Modern
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg:Cheeri0s:symg::symr::symb::symu::symw:
4 Fog Bank
3 Haunted Guardian
3 Gatecreeper Vine
3 Murmuring Phantasm
3 Galvanic Alchemist
3 Infinite Reflection
4 Fog
3 Increasing Confusion
2 Devil's Play
2 Simic Charm
Go infinite with defenders, or just turn all creatures into copies of Biovisionary for the win or Axebane Guardian to generate mass amounts of mana. Cast and re-cast finishers until GG.
Considering: Ludevic's Test Subject, Mizzium Skin, and more Simic Charm
Standard: GW Selesnya Aggro, GWB Voice of Servitude, R Stuffy Reckoning, UWB Unblockable Auras, UG Defenders of the Combo
Extended: G Cheat-a-Colossus Elves,BRU Infinite Heartless,R Infect, R 'Helldrazi' (Hellions/Eldrazi Tokens)
Legacy: R Goblinstorm, UR Artifacts, R Artifacts, BURWG Land Deck, etc.
Commander: BRWUGSliver Overlord, BR Tsabo Tavoc
Working on putting my decks here for testplaying: http://tappedout.net/users/drunk231/
i feel like maze is probably too slow, like door to nothingness. i think niv is a great great card for this deck, cuz he can be a wincon by himself, or just a slow death/CA engine. progenitor mimic is something i wanted to try myself, to copy their stuff, or axebanes. tell us what you end up with! this primer needs a redoing, i keep saying i am going to and i never end up doing it.
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG
well you cant combo without it. it wouldnt be defender combo then lol. but without, you can just do defender ramp?
Could we just do
Blue
Black
Green?
Blue -
Combo Piece, Hover Barrier, Best Defenders
Black -
Defenders with power, regenerate, flashback on alchemy.
Green -
Ramp and stuff.
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG
Because axebane guardian makes any color mana, we can have singletons of devil's play, or kessig wolf run in the deck. @koolmage, you say you dont like the dorks, but 1 dork + infinite mana + wolf run = game. Otherwise, its good to have something that can swing. Oh wait, i guess alchemist could do that too. Hmm
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG
UBRBLACK ROSE COMMANDERUBR
WURGBTrades - Looking for ABU Duals, Fetches, Ect. Have Liliana otV, Snapcaster Mages, Chrod of Calling, Alters!WURGB
Commander
Omnath, Locus of Mana
GWBUR Genju of The Realms RUBWG