False. If anything, that was Teia. I said that he was one of the only people that I thought was leaning town because I don't think that scum can easily mock some of the noob posts he made.
I've seen noob scum make some pretty obviously noobish posts. The noob card isn't a Get Out Of Scum free card. This is why I pressured Jay into providing some reads—I wanted some solid information to go on.
Speaking of that, do you have any more reads or some analysis to share?
No, not really.
I do find it interesting how there are about 4 people focused on me, and then another group of people focused on past metas and such. None of them seem to intermingle; it seems almost divided.
You implied that you think Iso is town, but do so through fallacious reasoning that since you've never seen someone acting a certain way flip scum.
Yes, it is a bit of a hasty generalization, but I have nothing to suggest otherwise. Iso is acting exactly like others that I have seen in the past, and I have never seen them flip scum. I do think that the behavior gets rather annoying, but I don't mind when that person's sporadic and aggressive attacks are dead on.
You later said that you think there's at least one scum in Arcadic/KK/myself (right after you said you thought Arcadic was leaning town), but didn't go into any reasoning for this.
Yes, I did say that. I was implying that I thought Arcadic was the least likely in that group to be scum, IMO. My reasoning is that it makes sense.
Given how scummy you're acting, why shouldn't we lynch you?
Because.... reasons. I don't want to get into any spoilers yet.
I will say that you should have absolutely nothing to worry about because I am, in fact, town. Unless you are scum, then you would have lots to worry about. Are you scum?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Anyway, hansanator may be new enough to not know the acronyms, but according to his sig he's finished 7 games and certainly should know how RVS works by now.
vote hansanator
I very much dislike this vote. This is probably because I have seen hansanator's play first hand because of GIP.
Tell me, KK, why do you believe that hansanator has showed a scum mindset because he didn't follow RVS like you thought he should?
Also, KK, what makes you think those games are from Sally? His Sig does not state what site those games come from. I mention this because I have played on Mafia on other sites and at least one of those sites didn’t have RVS like we do.
And besides, just saying the generation of you pokemon wouldn't reveal anything about your role or put you in any danger. There are over 100+ pokemon from each generation.
Which also means it won't help us catch scum at all, you're not exactly narrowing down their false claims to a small pool, even assuming they need to false claim, meaning no benefit at all. Plus there could be game mechanics tied to what gen we're from, so we can't be sure there's no harm in it either.
Iso, would you please shine some light on what you are trying to get at here with KK? Because I am not seeing it and looks like your frustrating KK which in turn is frustrating you?
Why not? It could potentially be a good method for us to catch scum. And besides, just saying the generation of you pokemon wouldn't reveal anything about your role or put you in any danger. There are over 100+ pokemon from each generation.!
For one thing, we have no reason to believe our generations matter. The flavor post makes no indication that we're not from the full 'dex.
:sneaky:unless you and your scumbuddies are the same generation!!!
Kaburi, do you have a reason to be nervous this game? You’re immediate unvote following your post tells me that you do.
Teia votes for KK and KK rebuttal
Teia’s case is KK’s response is good. I’m not sure what to make of this yet. I’m suspicious of KK and Teia I haven’t played with before. Seeing Iso’s prior post indicates a meta read, but had no vote which I can only assume that GM is a stronger Scum than Teia for Iso.
What KK is going after is a descent Scum tell and works on some players. Teia is taking what KK did and turning it against him for what I assume is a lack of experience on Teia’s behalf. How much experience in Mafia do you have, Teia?
- hansanator: What was up with that mass softclaim nonsense? How would it help catch scum if it wouldn't reveal anything about anyone's roles? You made assertions without evidence for a bad idea. What were you thinking when you made that suggestion, and why did you get so defensive when pressed about it?
- KoolKoal: Saying that Arcadic's first vote was serious is pretty weak, but what really raises a red flag for me is how he handled his mistaken vote for hans. He voted hans for not knowing how RVS tells work, despite later saying that, "I don't think RVS tells are very reliable, but they catch scum once in a while and give us a good jump-off point to get into the real meat of the game." This is what's known as special pleading: He's acknowledging the general case that RVS tells aren't reliable, while not giving justification to the claim that this case is exceptional—he restates his premises at one point, but he doesn't make the connection to how hans' lack of voting isn't a null tell. Oh, and the whole "laughing at tinypic" thing reeks of deflection. He looks very much like scum who got caught making a bad case and is now fumbling around trying to justify it.
Vote KoolKoal
Oh sweet Teia is scum. Unvote, Vote: Teia Rabishu.
I'll come back to KoolKoal later, after we lynch Teia.
Interesting, Wheaties, that Iso shows the Scum meta and then you vote for Teia. And then you post this here:
Actually now that I look closer I'm only about 70% sure but within 10 posts I bet I'll have a certain alignment for Teia.
This gives you an out to unvote Teia.
Would you please explain what made you waffle? More specifically, would you please point to specifics in Teia’s posts that made you waffle the way you did. And if it wasn’t Teia’s posts, then please direct me to the player’s posts that changed your opinion and the specifics within those posts.
Strong defense from KK which only makes Teia look worse. Combine this with the exchange from Iso and Wheaties above and I find myself being uncomfortable going onto the Teia wagon. I’m suspicious of Wheaties and Iso I can’t read that well. This might be Scum looking for an easy mislynch.
Your behavior is troublesome and does not follow what I know. (GIP)
I’d be willing to vote for hansanator as well. I find it strange that he is trying to keep the soft claim going through when multiple others have told him no.
I haven't been ignoring it; I just didn't have anything that I thought was relevant to say about it.
I didn't realize that you were expecting me to comment about the whole RVS thing, but I suppose I can if it will humor you.
I've never been a big proponent of randomly voting people at the start of a game*, but I have been known to go along with it on some occasions, provided that I can find some witty/humorous way to go about doing it. In this game, however, I saw that no other player had yet posted, so I saw it as a golden opportunity to drop the perfect line of motivation, and I did that as quickly as possible so that I wouldn't miss my chance. I'm sorry for breaking your cherished norm, but quite frankly, I see the RVS as something trivial. Why bother randomly voting for someone if the odds are greatly against you actually picking scum?
*I did not know what RVS actually stood for until I opened up that link earlier. I had seen it referenced in other games 'round these parts, and I had deduced that it had something to do with randomly voting people at the beginning of a game to spark discussion, but I wasn't sure of the precise words that made up the acronym.
RVS is used to break the ice. Of course you’re not likely to hit scum with your first vote of the game, but that does not mean that RVS is trivial. I’ve seen many a player, myself included; catch scum on their first post of the game during RVS. Also, RVS is typically broken when a player says something that someone else finds scummy.
I’m having trouble determining whether or not you forced that post or if you are being legitimate.
Hmmm… looks like I was wrong about hansanator Re: RVS from above. Perhaps KK was onto something more.
RE: KoolKoal - I'm not liking his massive defensiveness and stubbornness at all, so it looks like my RVS vote is staying where it is for now.
What do you deem as a “massive defensiveness and stubbornness”? Please use quotes from KK to tell me what you see.
Iso/Wheaties exchange: This whole exchange is rather weird. Given the exchange earlier Re: Teia it makes this exchange even more weird. Earlier Wheaties was trying to get Iso to follow him, but now Wheaties is trying to dissuade Iso from voting GM, someone Wheaties was willing to vote for earlier so long as Teia went first. I’m liking where my vote is at, on Wheaties.
Iso
Who would you want to go first, GM or Wheaties?
Like I said, its not some reliable way to catch scum, but a starting point, and in this case he handled the pressure by using his mass claim idea to basically active lurk rather than talk about anything relevant to the game until he got called on it.
Plenty of reason to keep the vote on him.
I agree with your vote, but I don’t believe hansanator is the correct lynch for toDay. There are better options on the table.
This is getting old fast and is starting to get redundant. Teia is likely to be scum while I am undecided on KK, but that will hopefully change once he responds to some inquires within this post.
Perhaps I am reading into this too much, but I get the impression that Teia and KK are not on the same team this game.
I don’t like Teia’s approach to Jay. Using experience as a reason to unvote later as needed does not look good. This may be Teia going after low hanging fruit.
Point is, my argument is NOT based solely on GM's meta - it's based on mindset as well as my knowledge of how GM plays as scum. He completely ignored my earlier push on him. That is not townGM behavior. And no, why should I care what you think of me if you're scum? That's a blatant misrepresentation of what I'm saying.
"He completely ignored my earlier push on him."
Why are you giving this as reasoning now, but did not before?
Because I forgot you didn't know GM's scum meta. -_-
I’m lost here. What does Wheaties not knowing GM’s Scum meta have to do with what you claimed about GM? I want to apply Occam’s here and say that is how GM works as Scum, but, knowing you Iso, there be something more complicated going on.
Because I forgot you didn't know GM's scum meta. -_-
This explanation does not fit your actions.
Unvote, Vote: Iso
Would you please explain how this does not fit Iso’s actions? Is it really that hard to accept that Iso wasn’t paying attention to every detail? Because that it what I am seeing. Also, Occam’s speaks a lot in this scenario. Isn’t that something you mentioned recently? Using Occam’s?
I don't think I've ever played with Iso as scum, what are you going on with that vote, Wheat_Grinder?
I'm going on detailed knowledge of how Iso's brain works. I literally have made a flowchart for detailing his alignment. No one could read Iso, so I made a study of it. And I'm finally at the point where I can read him with great certainty.
You see, scum Iso is very good at saying things that sound like they could be right but are not. But he sometimes makes a mistake, which he covers with a thinly veiled lie.
For example: He claimed he had 4 abilities in Starcraft mafia as scum, and when told two didn't make sense he said he had made up those abilities and *got away with it*.
And now this game, he claimed that he forgot I didn't know GM's meta, after I said I didn't know GM's meta *twice*.
He's lying, and he's scum.
Why are you excluding the possibility that Iso simply wasn’t paying attention? Iso has been known to do this as well.
I realized while going through that some of the above questions may have been asked already. If a question has already been asked, then please either answer it again or quote the post in which you answered.
Teia's recent play has gotten my attention again. She gave up on pushing me more easily than I'd expect her to as town and now she's back to her more passive scum play. (ex: joining the hansanator wagon after he's tried to defend himself and not looked that great at it; fosing iso once he's the popular wagon.)
You're still on my radar. It's just that hansanator and Iso are more obviously scummy than you, so they're the ones getting my attention. Speaking of which, you still have to answer this:
Yes, I did say that. I was implying that I thought Arcadic was the least likely in that group to be scum, IMO. My reasoning is that it makes sense.
You said he was "leaning town," not "the least likely to be scum in that group." You're moving the goalposts here. You also haven't gone over your reasoning for that specific grouping, either.
Because.... reasons. I don't want to get into any spoilers yet.
I don't put any stock in promises of future revelations. Get lynched.
I will say that you should have absolutely nothing to worry about because I am, in fact, town. Unless you are scum, then you would have lots to worry about. Are you scum?
Oh, since I forgot, deadline is set for August 12th, 11:59 EST.
This is not due to activity; I wanted a deadline from the beginning but forgot. This deadline represents 2 days per living player, which is the system I'll be following this game.
I will edit this deadline into the start-of-Day post.
Tell me, KK, why do you believe that hansanator has showed a scum mindset because he didn't follow RVS like you thought he should?
Also, KK, what makes you think those games are from Sally? His Sig does not state what site those games come from. I mention this because I have played on Mafia on other sites and at least one of those sites didn’t have RVS like we do.
While I don't think not voting in RVS shows a scum mindset, it can sometimes be indicative of a nervous/timid scum mindset. In my opinion, that makes it worth pushing on, especially when nothing else substantial has happened at that point.
My first assumption was that the games were from Sally. I haven't been reading recent games I'm not involved in because of a lack of free time, not for at least 6 months, maybe more. So there was a gap in my knowledge hansanator could have been playing during. The possibility just slipped my mind. Having now gone to find hansanator's past games on this site, I know his experience isn't from around here.
You're still on my radar. It's just that hansanator and Iso are more obviously scummy than you, so they're the ones getting my attention. Speaking of which, you still have to answer this:
You're still special pleading. If RVS tells are generally unreliable, how is this specific case reliable?
It isn't any more or less reliable than other rvs tells. I've never claimed that hansanator not voting in rvs was a reliable tell, you put that in my mouth.
I was clear before: Unreliable tell, meaning you should never lynch someone off of it, but a good starting place to apply pressure.
So, a question in return: Do you have any comment on the fact that my read into hansanator's past games caused me to unvote him?
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Yes, I did say that. I was implying that I thought Arcadic was the least likely in that group to be scum, IMO. My reasoning is that it makes sense.
You said he was "leaning town," not "the least likely to be scum in that group." You're moving the goalposts here. You also haven't gone over your reasoning for that specific grouping, either.
I know that I said he was leaning town. What I meant in this quote is that since I said one of you three were scum, and Arcadic was the only one that I mentioned as leaning town, it should have implied that I thought that he was the least likely scum in that group. I haven't changed the meaning of my original words; I was simply clarifying because it seems like you didn't see what I was implying.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Interesting, Wheaties, that Iso shows the Scum meta and then you vote for Teia. And then you post this here:
I don't get what you're talking about with the scum meta.
This gives you an out to unvote Teia.
Yeah except I always provide reasoning in the end. Not just here, in general. But also here, because I did.
Would you please explain what made you waffle? More specifically, would you please point to specifics in Teia’s posts that made you waffle the way you did. And if it wasn’t Teia’s posts, then please direct me to the player’s posts that changed your opinion and the specifics within those posts.
I wasn't quite seeing enough questions by Teia and it was the questions I was looking for. She posted enough questions later for me to think it was within her scum meta.
Vote: Wheat_Grinder
Wheaties, why the sudden change in your answer to Iso? I believe I know the answer, but I would like to hear it.
I was joking.
Would you please explain how this does not fit Iso’s actions? Is it really that hard to accept that Iso wasn’t paying attention to every detail? Because that it what I am seeing. Also, Occam’s speaks a lot in this scenario. Isn’t that something you mentioned recently? Using Occam’s?
I actually want to do this badly myself, especially in the context of Iso's last post. Alas, I have a midterm on Thursday and this one I need to study for hard after the last one. I don't have enough time to explain with sufficient detail, but on Thursday or Friday evening I am definitely going to.
I was initially interested in Teia's lack of an RVS vote, but after reading through the start of the game again I realized that this was probably just because the RVS ended so quickly. Now, when reading through that I found his awful attempt at starting a wagon on GM, which was totally and utterly baseless and actually quite flippant and dismissive.
My push on GM was completely serious and the reason why I didn't clarify my reasoning when kaburi asked is because I wanted to see how people reacted to my out-of-the-blue push on GM - particularly GM. In the process, we dug up scum Wheat. My push on GM is absolutely not baseless and as someone who has played with scumGM you should be fully aware of that. Regarding being flippant and my dismissiveness, again, you've played with ME, so you should be fully aware of that. You're going to have to explain how being flippant and dismissive is indicative of scum as opposed to disinterested town. Also, my image post was a jab at kaburi, which, again, you should know.
Why are you intentionally ignoring information you know and pushing me based on fallacies?
Quote from BlackVise »
Following that, there was this little gem where he tried to throw suspicion on Teia and then pass it off as a joke.
This is a total misrepresentation of my actions. If you'll note, I voted Teia shortly thereafter following my dialogue with Wheat. My suspicion of Teia was, again, serious. You're having a clearly difficult time distinguishing when I'm being serious and when I'm not. I suggest you rectify this, particularly if your thickness is intentional.
Quote from BlackVise »
He also called Void scum (54), in addition to asking KoolKoal if he is in the second post quoted above.
And?
Quote from BlackVise »
Basically, he tried to push a wagon on GM with no basis and was flippant when questioned about it, and then pointed fingers at three other players.
Also, and?
Quote from BlackVise »
It just seems to me like he's flailing around attempting to start a wagon wherever he can.
So I recognize scummy behavior, call it out, and that makes me scum?
Basically, he tried to push a wagon on GM with no basis and was flippant when questioned about it, and then pointed fingers at three other players. It just seems to me like he's flailing around attempting to start a wagon wherever he can.
I'm not going to use meta on you, then; it seems I was more than a little misinformed. Dropping you as a scum read for that reason but IGMEOY.
"lol"
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
I'm going on detailed knowledge of how Iso's brain works. I literally have made a flowchart for detailing his alignment. No one could read Iso, so I made a study of it. And I'm finally at the point where I can read him with great certainty.
You literally just said you've neglected the chart. I am also 100% certain that you have still never caught me as scum in a game using your chart, given our OoG discussions. And regardless of whether you have or not, the fact remains that you just made your own chart obsolete. I think this is a poor excuse generated by scumWheat in an attempt to rally votes based on an intangible reason that he can just say "whoops guess I need to update the chart" on later because Wheat is deathly afraid of me in Mafia, regardless of his alignment.
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
You see, scum Iso is very good at saying things that sound like they could be right but are not. But he sometimes makes a mistake, which he covers with a thinly veiled lie.
For example: He claimed he had 4 abilities in Starcraft mafia as scum, and when told two didn't make sense he said he had made up those abilities and *got away with it*.
And now this game, he claimed that he forgot I didn't know GM's meta, after I said I didn't know GM's meta *twice*.
He's lying, and he's scum.
Please tell me how falseclaiming and forgetting something are analogous. Additionally, please point out ACTUAL mistakes I've made as scum (hint: I don't make mistakes as scum; you of all people, the self-professed "Iso Expert", should know that). You are hosting Basic #76, so you should be fully aware of what I said there: I've been having IRL issues that are making it difficult for me to become engrossed in a Mafia game as of late. So please explain to me how my lack of interest is indicative of scumIso. I'd love to hear it.
@Void: Kay, you're town, cool. Also, the "seems legit" was lightly sarcastic. Also, Unvote, Vote Wheat_Grinder (thanks to Arn for reminding me that my vote was still on GM). I hope that answers your question regarding whether I want Wheat or GM dead first. I like ria because he called out Wheat's misrepresentation of my post. And yes, that is how I believe GM operates as scum.
@BV: If you disliked KK's defensiveness from my push on him, why do you dislike me so much?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No. I was referring to the other people that I have seen as seemingly unhelpful. When your behavior starts causing mislynch after mislynch, I will consider your play unhelpful.
Now that I've gathered my thoughts a bit, I'm going to say I think the scumteam is hansanator, Wheat_Grinder, and Jay13x.
Thank you and goodnight.
And you're welcome.
You've got a very bizarre play style, regardless of whether or not you are scum. You do realize you've now accused just about everyone of being scum, right? It's spectacularly unhelpful, especially to a new player like me, and it leads me to being highly suspicious. Even if you are trying to illicit reactions, a scattershot method can't be very effective.
No. I was referring to the other people that I have seen as seemingly unhelpful. When your behavior starts causing mislynch after mislynch, I will consider your play unhelpful.
Now that I've gathered my thoughts a bit, I'm going to say I think the scumteam is hansanator, Wheat_Grinder, and Jay13x.
Thank you and goodnight.
And you're welcome.
You've got a very bizarre play style, regardless of whether or not you are scum. You do realize you've now accused just about everyone of being scum, right? It's spectacularly unhelpful, especially to a new player like me, and it leads me to being highly suspicious. Even if you are trying to illicit reactions, a scattershot method can't be very effective.
The post you have quoted is my revised read list. It doesn't particularly matter to me that you claim suspicion of me - after all, I think you're scum. You're describing my style as "scattershot" when it's anything but. I just constantly redirect my focus until I've found something I'd like to stick to.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No. I was referring to the other people that I have seen as seemingly unhelpful. When your behavior starts causing mislynch after mislynch, I will consider your play unhelpful.
but I don't mind when that person's sporadic and aggressive attacks are dead on.
If this is the case, you can be as sporadic as you'd like.
Wow, that blatant buddying.
There's a difference between buddying and being nice.
You gotta admit that Void's post was pretty awesome. He encompassed so much content in a single post. I believe that he should get some sort of recognition for such a great post, which is why I told him what I thought about it.
In the case of Iso, I was just clarifying because he seemed to believe that I was insulting his play, which I was not. There would be no reason for me to call his play unhelpful when this is the first time playing with him. That'd just be rude. If it works for him and the town, I don't care how he plays.
Regarding that question: the simple answer is that the grouping is completely random. The grouping is not based on any correlation between those players.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
I accidentally voted for myself while quoting Void.
I will respond to Iso more in-depth later, in regards to the flowchart: I have neglected it on paper, that is true. I haven't played a game with you in a long time, so I let it languish. But I still know the way you act, and you know that I know.
The post you have quoted is my revised read list. It doesn't particularly matter to me that you claim suspicion of me - after all, I think you're scum. You're describing my style as "scattershot" when it's anything but. I just constantly redirect my focus until I've found something I'd like to stick to.
I see. I meant scattershot only in that you keep announcing teams with people you haven't even mentioned as suspected before. That can't possibly be a good town tactic.
Besides, if I am scum, I wouldn't have let go of the obvious train on Handsanitizer. I also wouldn't focus on someone as likely to give a good accounting of themselves as you. I'd focus on handsanitizer, who's attempts to explain his behavior only make him look more and more suspicious.
So who are your real top candidates right now? I'm new, not stupid
Tell me, KK, why do you believe that hansanator has showed a scum mindset because he didn't follow RVS like you thought he should?
Also, KK, what makes you think those games are from Sally? His Sig does not state what site those games come from. I mention this because I have played on Mafia on other sites and at least one of those sites didn’t have RVS like we do.
While I don't think not voting in RVS shows a scum mindset, it can sometimes be indicative of a nervous/timid scum mindset. In my opinion, that makes it worth pushing on, especially when nothing else substantial has happened at that point.
My first assumption was that the games were from Sally. I haven't been reading recent games I'm not involved in because of a lack of free time, not for at least 6 months, maybe more. So there was a gap in my knowledge hansanator could have been playing during. The possibility just slipped my mind. Having now gone to find hansanator's past games on this site, I know his experience isn't from around here.
No. I was referring to the other people that I have seen as seemingly unhelpful. When your behavior starts causing mislynch after mislynch, I will consider your play unhelpful.
@Void: Kay, you're town, cool. Also, the "seems legit" was lightly sarcastic. Also, Unvote, Vote Wheat_Grinder (thanks to Arn for reminding me that my vote was still on GM). I hope that answers your question regarding whether I want Wheat or GM dead first. I like ria because he called out Wheat's misrepresentation of my post. And yes, that is how I believe GM operates as scum
Slightly sarcastic? And how would anyone in this game know it was slightly sarcastic if you hadn’t stated so?
Interesting, Wheaties, that Iso shows the Scum meta and then you vote for Teia. And then you post this here:
I don't get what you're talking about with the scum meta.
Iso mentioned Teia’s scum meta and shortly after you followed up with a vote on Teia without an explanation. Therefore your vote looks like you are /barning Iso to get onto the wagon. But this makes me raise an eyebrow since Iso did not vote for Teia.
I don’t recall seeing an explanation for your Teia vote.
Would you please explain what made you waffle? More specifically, would you please point to specifics in Teia’s posts that made you waffle the way you did. And if it wasn’t Teia’s posts, then please direct me to the player’s posts that changed your opinion and the specifics within those posts.
I wasn't quite seeing enough questions by Teia and it was the questions I was looking for. She posted enough questions later for me to think it was within her scum meta.
Vote: Wheat_Grinder
Since I don’t know what Teia’s scum meta is, would you mind explaining what Teia’s scum meta is?
That was not the answer I expected. The answer I expected is that you answered the question wrong. How would anyone know that you were joking in that post? More so , because Iso followed suit and voted Teia because of it.
Would you please explain how this does not fit Iso’s actions? Is it really that hard to accept that Iso wasn’t paying attention to every detail? Because that it what I am seeing. Also, Occam’s speaks a lot in this scenario. Isn’t that something you mentioned recently? Using Occam’s?
I actually want to do this badly myself, especially in the context of Iso's last post. Alas, I have a midterm on Thursday and this one I need to study for hard after the last one. I don't have enough time to explain with sufficient detail, but on Thursday or Friday evening I am definitely going to.
Your response will be interesting if past posting predicts future posting.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Short post again with probably the last content before I have time for a full post tomorrow
Quote from Void »
That was not the answer I expected. The answer I expected is that you answered the question wrong. How would anyone know that you were joking in that post? More so , because Iso followed suit and voted Teia because of it.
It's a joke because I did indeed mean what I said the first time, but Iso said he wouldn't vote for Teia unless it was the only barrier to me voting GM. So I jokingly reversed because then he would vote for Teia under the presumption I would vote GM with him afterwards.
But he knew it was a joke as well, because he said "seems legit" which means he didn't find it legit at all.
Also my reasoning for voting Teia was that she was within her scum meta, but it seems that her town meta is no more than a single game. I also explained what that meta was. If you don't find it by tomorrow, I'll quote it for you with the rest of my post.
I was actually going to harangue you until you voted for GM with me if we actually lynched Teia.
Also, you mean to tell me that your strongest read early game was on Teia...whose scum meta you've never seen before...based on her scum meta...and yet you were unwilling to vote GM...whose scum meta you've never seen before...because you don't know his scum meta?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yes, I did say that. I was implying that I thought Arcadic was the least likely in that group to be scum, IMO. My reasoning is that it makes sense.
You said he was "leaning town," not "the least likely to be scum in that group." You're moving the goalposts here. You also haven't gone over your reasoning for that specific grouping, either.
I know that I said he was leaning town. What I meant in this quote is that since I said one of you three were scum, and Arcadic was the only one that I mentioned as leaning town, it should have implied that I thought that he was the least likely scum in that group. I haven't changed the meaning of my original words; I was simply clarifying because it seems like you didn't see what I was implying.
Also, not weasel speak. I'm not even sure weasels can speak.
I'll make this as simple as I possibly can.
1. I said that I thought that Jay was "leaning town."
2. Immediately after, I say that (I believe) there is (at least) 1 scum between Jay, Teia, and KK.
3. Since I said nothing else regarding how I perceived Teia and KK, it could be logically assumed that I thought Jay was most likely not the 1 scum because "leaning town" is the opposite of scum. If I said anything about their alignments, then there may have been another story.
NOTE: I said 1 and 2 directly, while 3 should have been implicitly understood. If further clarification is needed, please let me know.
#Not_a_weasel
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Some of your posts have come off as odd, but ultimately, yes. At this time I do think that you are leaning town. I feel as though scum take greater care in choosing what they post, so I do not think that you would have made some of the points that you used against me if you were scum.
I do, however, think that there is at least one scum hiding between you, KK, and Teia. So watch out.
It reads like fence sitting to me, zero confidence in what you are saying.
Regarding that question: the simple answer is that the grouping is completely random. The grouping is not based on any correlation between those players.
Found it buried in a post.
So, do you have any reads aside from Jay/Arcadic possibly being town?
Regarding that question: the simple answer is that the grouping is completely random. The grouping is not based on any correlation between those players.
So in other words, you're just playing the odds by saying there's scum between three random players? How's that supposed to help in catching scum?
Besides, if I am scum, I wouldn't have let go of the obvious train on Handsanitizer. I also wouldn't focus on someone as likely to give a good accounting of themselves as you. I'd focus on handsanitizer, who's attempts to explain his behavior only make him look more and more suspicious.
Also my reasoning for voting Teia was that she was within her scum meta, but it seems that her town meta is no more than a single game.
I'm curious. Given that you can't actually read the games in question, and theoretically shouldn't even be able to read individual posts of mine from those games, on what basis were you so sure of my meta that you were willing to stake your entire case on me on it? It obviously wasn't very much, given that you didn't know my town meta was just MM6. So why did you deem such obviously incomplete information reliable?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
These people need to post more or i have zero reads on them.
Still V/LA until tomorrow at least. I've got fifteen minutes to kill while the engineers unkill my units they killed, and then I'm back to hell week in the lab.
Meanwhile, here are some random reads for you:
kaburi: Towniest townie what ever towned
Jay: either town or some sort of scum!genius (so town)
Iso: **** if I know, never seen him in action before but I just hurt myself in confusion
Teia: Doesn't exactly read like scum!Teia from MM7, but I botched my reading of her so bad in that game I don't know
hansanasana: can't tell if imploding like TK last game or actual scum; I'm willing to go as far as FoS: hans but not convinced enough to vote yet
Void: ...see Iso...
wheat: IGMEOY:sneaky:
KK: reading townish to me, but I need to look back at his more recent stuff
ria: ...see Void...and Iso...although recent pushing on the hanswagon seems townish Another case of people I need to review when I have more time after this week
Arcadic: leaning town
BV: not enough to get a real read, but what I have seen reminds me too much of endgame scum!BV from MM7
GM: Also not enough to get a real read, but I see what Iso called a scum post as being perfectly legit and possible from a town mindset
I think that's everyone. Back to the mines, and I'll provide real content after I can come up for air for longer.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That was not the answer I expected. The answer I expected is that you answered the question wrong. How would anyone know that you were joking in that post? More so , because Iso followed suit and voted Teia because of it.
It's a joke because I did indeed mean what I said the first time, but Iso said he wouldn't vote for Teia unless it was the only barrier to me voting GM. So I jokingly reversed because then he would vote for Teia under the presumption I would vote GM with him afterwards.
But he knew it was a joke as well, because he said "seems legit" which means he didn't find it legit at all.
Also my reasoning for voting Teia was that she was within her scum meta, but it seems that her town meta is no more than a single game. I also explained what that meta was. If you don't find it by tomorrow, I'll quote it for you with the rest of my post.
I understand that it is joke and accept it as that becasue of Iso's responses. What I don't understand is how someone would be able to read that text and get that kind of information.
Well, consider my post an admittedly late reaction to that push. As for GM's meta - MM7 was the first game where I really felt like I understood what was going on, prior to that I hadn't really been that observant of people's metas prior to that.
Okay, so part of the reason you're pushing me because you disagree with my push on GM? On what grounds do you disagree with it?
Quote from BlackVise »
Everything can be construed as disinterested town rather than scummy. However, handwaving's scummy though, as well you know.
I think it's relevant to context. For example, if someone makes a bad push against me, I can laugh at them and carry on about my business. I'm pretty sure you were the only person (aside from Wheat, who is scum) that was concerned with whether or not I responded to your push on me (and at this point, I'm really just humoring you. Not to be rude).
Quote from BlackVise »
Elaborate.
* Iso sighs.
There's an on-going joke in the mod lounge (that I've taken to a couple of other threads) that I'm kaburi's roommate. Any time I use a picture of Overly Attached Girlfriend in response to a kaburi post, it's a reference to that.
Quote from BlackVise »
As I hope I've explained, I'm not.
But you said it was a late reaction. So how were you not ignoring me before?
Quote from BlackVise »
I must have missed the vote, in which case I apologize. However, my point about you throwing suspicion out where possible is still valid.
And again, I defer to the counterargument that I was observing scummy behavior and announced such. If you've noticed, I make broad statements to pique people's interests in what I think a scummy player is doing. If I say, "I think player X is scum" early on, people are more inclined to look back and see for themselves what that player is doing. Additionally, it's a great trap if I think a player is town. Careless scum are more inclined to /barn me if they think they can get away with it and get caught that way. Additionally, the way players respond (or don't respond) is a great measurement for early interactions. I'm sorry you don't understand my modus operandi (that goes to Jay, Senator Han, and anyone else who things my style of play is obstructive, as well) but I have great success with it so I'm not planning on stopping any time soon just because a few players don't understand what I'm doing and a few players think it's scummy. I generate reactions. I get things done.
Quote from BlackVise »
As I said, putting suspicion about where possible.
See above
Quote from BlackVise »
I believe I've answered this.
See above
Quote from BlackVise »
There's nothing wrong with seeing scummy behavior and calling it out. There's something wrong with pointing suspicion wherever possible in an attempt to get a wagon going.
Statement: Wagons can be analyzed based on speed, who's voting, their rationale for voting, and past opinions of the players they've voted for.
Do you disagree?
Quote from BlackVise »
You know the answer to this. It starts with 'd' and ends with 'istancing'.
Quote from BlackVise »
Now, this is where my case on you falls apart, Iso. I actually genuinely think you caught scum here. So, unvote, vote: Wheat_Grinder.
Quote from BlackVise »
If we end up lynching him and he flips town though my attention will be turning straight back to Iso.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You literally just said you've neglected the chart. I am also 100% certain that you have still never caught me as scum in a game using your chart, given our OoG discussions. And regardless of whether you have or not, the fact remains that you just made your own chart obsolete. I think this is a poor excuse generated by scumWheat in an attempt to rally votes based on an intangible reason that he can just say "whoops guess I need to update the chart" on later because Wheat is deathly afraid of me in Mafia, regardless of his alignment.
I am 100% certain that you are scum this game.
I'm not using the chart, no, but this does follow one of the tenets of the chart. Actually two, when you consider that the chart is all about getting your claim and figuring out your alignment from there. This method dispenses with that.
Also I'm deathly afraid of you but that's because you're scum and I know how scum Iso works.
Please tell me how falseclaiming and forgetting something are analogous.
Because you forgetting is not what actually happened. But that's a post for another day, like maybe tomorrow unless you me and Jey play a game OOG.
Additionally, please point out ACTUAL mistakes I've made as scum (hint: I don't make mistakes as scum; you of all people, the self-professed "Iso Expert", should know that). You are hosting Basic #76, so you should be fully aware of what I said there: I've been having IRL issues that are making it difficult for me to become engrossed in a Mafia game as of late. So please explain to me how my lack of interest is indicative of scumIso. I'd love to hear it.
Claiming 4 abilities in Starcraft and then reneging on two of them wasn't a mistake?
I know you are having IRL issues, I'm saying that it doesn't make sense here anyway and I will post why extremely soon.
"Iso forgetting something I said does not add up to him saying he forgot"
Now that I've gathered my thoughts a bit, I'm going to say I think the scumteam is hansanator, Wheat_Grinder, and Jay13x.
Thank you and goodnight.
And you're welcome.
Low-hanging fruit, low-hanging fruit, and noob (IE low-hanging fruit)
EWP: Wheaties, why are you obessed with Iso? If I didn't know better you two are lovers (not the mafia term) because of your flowchart.
Iso is my bro.
Also I posted my reasoning on Teia so I'm brushing by those questions.
General announcement: I can't adequately explain the thing with Teia until an ongoing game finishes. At that point, I will explain in detail what happened.
I'm curious. Given that you can't actually read the games in question, and theoretically shouldn't even be able to read individual posts of mine from those games, on what basis were you so sure of my meta that you were willing to stake your entire case on me on it? It obviously wasn't very much, given that you didn't know my town meta was just MM6. So why did you deem such obviously incomplete information reliable?
Again, because it was reported as stronger as it actually was and I saw it proved. I will say no more until the ongoing game ends so I can discuss it.
I understand that it is joke and accept it as that becasue of Iso's responses. What I don't understand is how someone would be able to read that text and get that kind of information.
My bad. It was obvious that it was a joke to me, didn't think about how anyone else would react to it.
You literally just said you've neglected the chart. I am also 100% certain that you have still never caught me as scum in a game using your chart, given our OoG discussions. And regardless of whether you have or not, the fact remains that you just made your own chart obsolete. I think this is a poor excuse generated by scumWheat in an attempt to rally votes based on an intangible reason that he can just say "whoops guess I need to update the chart" on later because Wheat is deathly afraid of me in Mafia, regardless of his alignment.
I am 100% certain that you are scum this game.
"lol"
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
I'm not using the chart, no, but this does follow one of the tenets of the chart. Actually two, when you consider that the chart is all about getting your claim and figuring out your alignment from there. This method dispenses with that.
Did you just admit that you're trying to get me to claim range regardless of my alignment?
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
Also I'm deathly afraid of you but that's because you're scum and I know how scum Iso works.
ScumWheat is afraid of TownIso, too, but nice sidestep.
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
Because you forgetting is not what actually happened.
"I can read your mind"
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
Additionally, please point out ACTUAL mistakes I've made as scum (hint: I don't make mistakes as scum; you of all people, the self-professed "Iso Expert", should know that). You are hosting Basic #76, so you should be fully aware of what I said there: I've been having IRL issues that are making it difficult for me to become engrossed in a Mafia game as of late. So please explain to me how my lack of interest is indicative of scumIso. I'd love to hear it.
Claiming 4 abilities in Starcraft and then reneging on two of them wasn't a mistake?
Bolded the relevant part of the question. Considering my team won with a Perfect + victory in Starcraft Mafia, obviously it wasn't a mistake. Thank you for sidestepping the question.
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
I know you are having IRL issues, I'm saying that it doesn't make sense here anyway and I will post why extremely soon.
"I can read your mind"
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
Just wait for it, all will be explained.
I'm hanging on the edge of my seat in anticipation.
Low-hanging fruit, low-hanging fruit, and noob (IE low-hanging fruit)
Please explain Senator Han's rationale from a town mindset for each of his posts. Please explain your rationale from a town mindset for each of your posts oh wait I've already torn down your argument and pointed out how it makes you scum. Please quote for me where you know Jay's Mafia experience from. Unless Megiddo doesn't allow quoting scumchat, in which case, you should do it anyway and save me the trouble of lynching you. :cool3: All the same, Jay's most likely to be the player I'm wrong about from that post.
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
General announcement: I can't adequately explain the thing with Teia until an ongoing game finishes. At that point, I will explain in detail what happened.
"lol"
So basically a bunch of anecdotal bs that you expect us to take at face value and that's that? No. You're going to explain how this meshes with the fact that GM has had public town games before now because this is a huge inconsistency in your stance on why you were unable to determine that GM is playing his scum game and why you believed Teia to be playing to her scum meta. You just busted yourself without even getting to use the stall tactic you were planning on using.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Did you just admit that you're trying to get me to claim range regardless of my alignment?
Yeah, that's what the chart needs to work. Screw it, see for yourself:
Quote from How To Read Iso For Dummies »
0. Iso claimed VT.
a. Effective as of Vanilla Mafia 2, this does not apply to games in which every player is
vanilla. GOTO 1.
b. If not every player is VT, Iso = town. END.
1. While Iso == scum is FALSE, GOTO 2.
2. Iso claimed.
a. Can Iso really have this ability? No -> scum
b. Does Iso technically have this ability because he’s scum? Yes -> scum
c. Did Iso make it up and drop parts of it that didn’t make sense? Yes -> scum
d. If none of the above make him scum, GOTO 3.
3. How did he use his ability?
a. Mechanically confirming something easily confirmed without it (Void,
SharkFinnigan) -> scum
b. In such a way to prove he doesn’t actually have it -> scum
c. In such a way as to become a different role than he was before (see 2c) -> scum
4. Is the scumteam uncannily hitting PRs that haven’t breadcrumbed or claimed? Iso ->
probably scum (test this)
Please ignore the poor coding, Ecophagy already pointed it out but I'm too lazy to fix it.
BTW I'm accusing you of 2c sans claim.
ScumWheat is afraid of TownIso, too, but nice sidestep.
Bolded the relevant part of the question. Considering my team won with a Perfect + victory in Starcraft Mafia, obviously it wasn't a mistake. Thank you for sidestepping the question.
Starcraft mafia was a broken ass game and no one cared because of the quote walls.
Most of the entries in the chart are from your mistakes.
Please explain Senator Han's rationale from a town mindset for each of his posts.
I'm not actually sure he's town so nah.
Please quote for me where you know Jay's Mafia experience from.
Dude he said he was new in the thread. He was specifically asked by KoolKoal.
You're going to explain how this meshes with the fact that GM has had public town games before now because this is a huge inconsistency in your stance on why you were unable to determine that GM is playing his scum game and why you believed Teia to be playing to her scum meta.
Why is GM having public games inconsistent? I haven't read any of them so I still don't know his meta, and you never pointed to examples. I felt the town reason was strong enough that I never felt the need to go poking, even when the existence of public games was made known to me, because I don't have much time.
On the other hand, I did have an interest in finding Teia's games to prove her meta, because I DID think that made her scum, because I was given misinformation while reading the ongoing game I've referred to a few times. I was told that as town she plays poorly, while as scum she questions a lot. At first I didn't see as many questions as I needed to be sure, but as time went on there was no poor play so I figured it was not her town meta.
That is the last I'm saying about this until that game finishes because I can't fully explain it without getting modkilled until then.
I know it sucks as an answer, I hate giving crappy answers, but the real answer is locked to me via the rules.
Did you just admit that you're trying to get me to claim range regardless of my alignment?
Yeah, that's what the chart needs to work. Screw it, see for yourself:
So I'm supposed to take your word for it that you're attempting to get me to claim to determine my alignment instead of because you want the information as scum?
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
BTW I'm accusing you of 2c sans claim.
That doesn't make any sense.
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
Starcraft mafia was a broken ass game and no one cared because of the quote walls.
Regardless, it worked.
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
Most of the entries in the chart are from your mistakes.
Please reference each of my 82 completed Mafia games and tell me which each is from - because if your chart has only 7 parts, that's a pretty pitiful sample size (and I'd also point out that Starcraft was only my 15th game - I've learned a lot since then).
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
Please explain Senator Han's rationale from a town mindset for each of his posts.
I'm not actually sure he's town so nah.
Yet he's low-hanging fruit which makes me scum for pushing him.
Writing in big font so everyone reads this and Wheat's many inconsistent stances through his posts that I've broken down.
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
You're going to explain how this meshes with the fact that GM has had public town games before now because this is a huge inconsistency in your stance on why you were unable to determine that GM is playing his scum game and why you believed Teia to be playing to her scum meta.
Why is GM having public games inconsistent? I haven't read any of them so I still don't know his meta, and you never pointed to examples. I felt the town reason was strong enough that I never felt the need to go poking, even when the existence of public games was made known to me, because I don't have much time.
On the other hand, I did have an interest in finding Teia's games to prove her meta, because I DID think that made her scum, because I was given misinformation while reading the ongoing game I've referred to a few times. I was told that as town she plays poorly, while as scum she questions a lot. At first I didn't see as many questions as I needed to be sure, but as time went on there was no poor play so I figured it was not her town meta.
The point is that you chose two completely different options when faced with two nearly identical choices. Teia does not have any completed games outside of the Mod Lounge. GM does, though none of them are town. You were faced with two separate instances of a player saying, "This person's scum meta per Modfias correlates with their play here," at nearly the same time. At that point, you had the option of reading GM's past games (Flamingo Mafia and Megiddo's Avatar's) that were available to the public eye to check to see if what I was saying about GM's scum game was present in his public town games. But you ignored that in favor of looking into Teia. The problem with that is that you based your decision on somebody else saying that this was Teia's scum meta in a nearly analogous way to how I presented my push on GM. Why is this inconsistent? Because you completely ignored my push on GM! What's more is that following that, you developed your scum read on me for declaring my read on GM being based on meta but not the player who was initially pushing Teia. You've focused on me so completely that you're tripping over your stances. So why, Wheat, did you choose to ignore my push on GM over the push on Teia, both for meta reasons, both of which you are unable to access (as Teia has no public town games, and GM has no public scum games)?
This is not consistent and I would love to hear you try to dig yourself out of this one.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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No, not really.
I do find it interesting how there are about 4 people focused on me, and then another group of people focused on past metas and such. None of them seem to intermingle; it seems almost divided.
Yes, it is a bit of a hasty generalization, but I have nothing to suggest otherwise. Iso is acting exactly like others that I have seen in the past, and I have never seen them flip scum. I do think that the behavior gets rather annoying, but I don't mind when that person's sporadic and aggressive attacks are dead on.
Yes, I did say that. I was implying that I thought Arcadic was the least likely in that group to be scum, IMO. My reasoning is that it makes sense.
Because.... reasons. I don't want to get into any spoilers yet.
I will say that you should have absolutely nothing to worry about because I am, in fact, town. Unless you are scum, then you would have lots to worry about. Are you scum?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Now going back some to the below post from KK:
I very much dislike this vote. This is probably because I have seen hansanator's play first hand because of GIP.
Tell me, KK, why do you believe that hansanator has showed a scum mindset because he didn't follow RVS like you thought he should?
Also, KK, what makes you think those games are from Sally? His Sig does not state what site those games come from. I mention this because I have played on Mafia on other sites and at least one of those sites didn’t have RVS like we do.
Iso, would you please shine some light on what you are trying to get at here with KK? Because I am not seeing it and looks like your frustrating KK which in turn is frustrating you?
I’m Town, Iso, and that will not change.
Kaburi, do you have a reason to be nervous this game? You’re immediate unvote following your post tells me that you do.
Teia votes for KK and KK rebuttal
Teia’s case is KK’s response is good. I’m not sure what to make of this yet. I’m suspicious of KK and Teia I haven’t played with before. Seeing Iso’s prior post indicates a meta read, but had no vote which I can only assume that GM is a stronger Scum than Teia for Iso.
Teia’s response to KK
What KK is going after is a descent Scum tell and works on some players. Teia is taking what KK did and turning it against him for what I assume is a lack of experience on Teia’s behalf. How much experience in Mafia do you have, Teia?
Interesting, Wheaties, that Iso shows the Scum meta and then you vote for Teia. And then you post this here:
This gives you an out to unvote Teia.
Would you please explain what made you waffle? More specifically, would you please point to specifics in Teia’s posts that made you waffle the way you did. And if it wasn’t Teia’s posts, then please direct me to the player’s posts that changed your opinion and the specifics within those posts.
Vote: Wheat_Grinder
Am I the only one who finds the exchange bothersome?
Iso, why does it seem legit?
Wheaties, why the sudden change in your answer to Iso? I believe I know the answer, but I would like to hear it.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10473659&postcount=71]KK’s response to Teia pt 2.
Strong defense from KK which only makes Teia look worse. Combine this with the exchange from Iso and Wheaties above and I find myself being uncomfortable going onto the Teia wagon. I’m suspicious of Wheaties and Iso I can’t read that well. This might be Scum looking for an easy mislynch.
hansanator post
Your behavior is troublesome and does not follow what I know. (GIP)
I’d be willing to vote for hansanator as well. I find it strange that he is trying to keep the soft claim going through when multiple others have told him no.
Ftr, I am against any sort of claim.
RVS is used to break the ice. Of course you’re not likely to hit scum with your first vote of the game, but that does not mean that RVS is trivial. I’ve seen many a player, myself included; catch scum on their first post of the game during RVS. Also, RVS is typically broken when a player says something that someone else finds scummy.
I’m having trouble determining whether or not you forced that post or if you are being legitimate.
Hmmm… looks like I was wrong about hansanator Re: RVS from above. Perhaps KK was onto something more.
What do you deem as a “massive defensiveness and stubbornness”? Please use quotes from KK to tell me what you see.
Iso/Wheaties exchange: This whole exchange is rather weird. Given the exchange earlier Re: Teia it makes this exchange even more weird. Earlier Wheaties was trying to get Iso to follow him, but now Wheaties is trying to dissuade Iso from voting GM, someone Wheaties was willing to vote for earlier so long as Teia went first. I’m liking where my vote is at, on Wheaties.
Iso
Who would you want to go first, GM or Wheaties?
I agree with your vote, but I don’t believe hansanator is the correct lynch for toDay. There are better options on the table.
Teia response to KK
This is getting old fast and is starting to get redundant. Teia is likely to be scum while I am undecided on KK, but that will hopefully change once he responds to some inquires within this post.
Perhaps I am reading into this too much, but I get the impression that Teia and KK are not on the same team this game.
I don’t like Teia’s approach to Jay. Using experience as a reason to unvote later as needed does not look good. This may be Teia going after low hanging fruit.
You like Ria based on one post, Iso? Would you mind explaining why?
I’m lost here. What does Wheaties not knowing GM’s Scum meta have to do with what you claimed about GM? I want to apply Occam’s here and say that is how GM works as Scum, but, knowing you Iso, there be something more complicated going on.
Would you please explain how this does not fit Iso’s actions? Is it really that hard to accept that Iso wasn’t paying attention to every detail? Because that it what I am seeing. Also, Occam’s speaks a lot in this scenario. Isn’t that something you mentioned recently? Using Occam’s?
Why are you excluding the possibility that Iso simply wasn’t paying attention? Iso has been known to do this as well.
I realized while going through that some of the above questions may have been asked already. If a question has already been asked, then please either answer it again or quote the post in which you answered.
You're still on my radar. It's just that hansanator and Iso are more obviously scummy than you, so they're the ones getting my attention. Speaking of which, you still have to answer this:
You said he was "leaning town," not "the least likely to be scum in that group." You're moving the goalposts here. You also haven't gone over your reasoning for that specific grouping, either.
I don't put any stock in promises of future revelations. Get lynched.
No.
Two completed scum games, and my only completed town game was a trainwreck.
This is not due to activity; I wanted a deadline from the beginning but forgot. This deadline represents 2 days per living player, which is the system I'll be following this game.
I will edit this deadline into the start-of-Day post.
My first assumption was that the games were from Sally. I haven't been reading recent games I'm not involved in because of a lack of free time, not for at least 6 months, maybe more. So there was a gap in my knowledge hansanator could have been playing during. The possibility just slipped my mind. Having now gone to find hansanator's past games on this site, I know his experience isn't from around here.
It isn't any more or less reliable than other rvs tells. I've never claimed that hansanator not voting in rvs was a reliable tell, you put that in my mouth.
I was clear before: Unreliable tell, meaning you should never lynch someone off of it, but a good starting place to apply pressure.
So, a question in return: Do you have any comment on the fact that my read into hansanator's past games caused me to unvote him?
@Void- What does "waffle" mean in the context that you used it? (regarding wheat)
--------------------
I know that I said he was leaning town. What I meant in this quote is that since I said one of you three were scum, and Arcadic was the only one that I mentioned as leaning town, it should have implied that I thought that he was the least likely scum in that group. I haven't changed the meaning of my original words; I was simply clarifying because it seems like you didn't see what I was implying.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I don't like it, but that's because I don't really like meta arguments.
Also hey hans, how about a reason for that specific grouping?
I don't get what you're talking about with the scum meta.
Yeah except I always provide reasoning in the end. Not just here, in general. But also here, because I did.
I wasn't quite seeing enough questions by Teia and it was the questions I was looking for. She posted enough questions later for me to think it was within her scum meta.
Vote: Wheat_Grinder
I was joking.
I actually want to do this badly myself, especially in the context of Iso's last post. Alas, I have a midterm on Thursday and this one I need to study for hard after the last one. I don't have enough time to explain with sufficient detail, but on Thursday or Friday evening I am definitely going to.
Because him forgetting does not fit his actions.
I don't believe we've been formally introduced. I'm kaburi, the social anxiety mod. I'm always nervous. You've seen my avatar, right?
Seriously, it was right after Megs posted the first vote count, and I realized after I made my first post I still had my RVS vote active.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
My push on GM was completely serious and the reason why I didn't clarify my reasoning when kaburi asked is because I wanted to see how people reacted to my out-of-the-blue push on GM - particularly GM. In the process, we dug up scum Wheat. My push on GM is absolutely not baseless and as someone who has played with scumGM you should be fully aware of that. Regarding being flippant and my dismissiveness, again, you've played with ME, so you should be fully aware of that. You're going to have to explain how being flippant and dismissive is indicative of scum as opposed to disinterested town. Also, my image post was a jab at kaburi, which, again, you should know.
Why are you intentionally ignoring information you know and pushing me based on fallacies?
This is a total misrepresentation of my actions. If you'll note, I voted Teia shortly thereafter following my dialogue with Wheat. My suspicion of Teia was, again, serious. You're having a clearly difficult time distinguishing when I'm being serious and when I'm not. I suggest you rectify this, particularly if your thickness is intentional.
And?
Also, and?
So I recognize scummy behavior, call it out, and that makes me scum?
You're gonna have to do better than that.
"lol"
You consider my play unhelpful? Why or why not?
"lol"
You literally just said you've neglected the chart. I am also 100% certain that you have still never caught me as scum in a game using your chart, given our OoG discussions. And regardless of whether you have or not, the fact remains that you just made your own chart obsolete. I think this is a poor excuse generated by scumWheat in an attempt to rally votes based on an intangible reason that he can just say "whoops guess I need to update the chart" on later because Wheat is deathly afraid of me in Mafia, regardless of his alignment.
Please tell me how falseclaiming and forgetting something are analogous. Additionally, please point out ACTUAL mistakes I've made as scum (hint: I don't make mistakes as scum; you of all people, the self-professed "Iso Expert", should know that). You are hosting Basic #76, so you should be fully aware of what I said there: I've been having IRL issues that are making it difficult for me to become engrossed in a Mafia game as of late. So please explain to me how my lack of interest is indicative of scumIso. I'd love to hear it.
@Void: Kay, you're town, cool. Also, the "seems legit" was lightly sarcastic. Also, Unvote, Vote Wheat_Grinder (thanks to Arn for reminding me that my vote was still on GM). I hope that answers your question regarding whether I want Wheat or GM dead first. I like ria because he called out Wheat's misrepresentation of my post. And yes, that is how I believe GM operates as scum.
@BV: If you disliked KK's defensiveness from my push on him, why do you dislike me so much?
"Iso forgetting something I said does not add up to him saying he forgot"
seems legit
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Thank you and goodnight.
And you're welcome.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No. I was referring to the other people that I have seen as seemingly unhelpful. When your behavior starts causing mislynch after mislynch, I will consider your play unhelpful.
For all I know, you could be one of these people:
If this is the case, you can be as sporadic as you'd like.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
You've got a very bizarre play style, regardless of whether or not you are scum. You do realize you've now accused just about everyone of being scum, right? It's spectacularly unhelpful, especially to a new player like me, and it leads me to being highly suspicious. Even if you are trying to illicit reactions, a scattershot method can't be very effective.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Wow, that blatant buddying. And it comes right after this: Time to get back on.
Vote hansanator
Also hans: you didn't answer a question of Teia's.
The post you have quoted is my revised read list. It doesn't particularly matter to me that you claim suspicion of me - after all, I think you're scum. You're describing my style as "scattershot" when it's anything but. I just constantly redirect my focus until I've found something I'd like to stick to.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
There's a difference between buddying and being nice.
You gotta admit that Void's post was pretty awesome. He encompassed so much content in a single post. I believe that he should get some sort of recognition for such a great post, which is why I told him what I thought about it.
In the case of Iso, I was just clarifying because he seemed to believe that I was insulting his play, which I was not. There would be no reason for me to call his play unhelpful when this is the first time playing with him. That'd just be rude. If it works for him and the town, I don't care how he plays.
Regarding that question: the simple answer is that the grouping is completely random. The grouping is not based on any correlation between those players.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I accidentally voted for myself while quoting Void.
I will respond to Iso more in-depth later, in regards to the flowchart: I have neglected it on paper, that is true. I haven't played a game with you in a long time, so I let it languish. But I still know the way you act, and you know that I know.
And before you say I don't, CCM2012.
I see. I meant scattershot only in that you keep announcing teams with people you haven't even mentioned as suspected before. That can't possibly be a good town tactic.
Besides, if I am scum, I wouldn't have let go of the obvious train on Handsanitizer. I also wouldn't focus on someone as likely to give a good accounting of themselves as you. I'd focus on handsanitizer, who's attempts to explain his behavior only make him look more and more suspicious.
So who are your real top candidates right now? I'm new, not stupid
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Is there a reason why you didn't comment on anything else in that wall post from me?
I know I mentioned your name more than once.
I'm feeling that KK is Town after this post.
Waffling is taking both sides of an issue.
Do you have nothing else to say? Because KK has a very good point here:
You’ve got some explaining to do. And a lot to respond too.
Slightly sarcastic? And how would anyone in this game know it was slightly sarcastic if you hadn’t stated so?
Iso mentioned Teia’s scum meta and shortly after you followed up with a vote on Teia without an explanation. Therefore your vote looks like you are /barning Iso to get onto the wagon. But this makes me raise an eyebrow since Iso did not vote for Teia.
I don’t recall seeing an explanation for your Teia vote.
If this is the case, then I over looked your reasoning for voting for Teia. Would you please quote it?
Since I don’t know what Teia’s scum meta is, would you mind explaining what Teia’s scum meta is?
Fail quote to vote yourself.
Uh, what?
That was not the answer I expected. The answer I expected is that you answered the question wrong. How would anyone know that you were joking in that post? More so , because Iso followed suit and voted Teia because of it.
Your response will be interesting if past posting predicts future posting.
You’re right, we haven’t been introduced. I’m Void, your local Mafia harasser And, yes, I see your avatar, but don’t recognize it.
Would anyone else be willing to vouch for kaburi’s claim on his nervous behavior?
EWP: Wheaties, why are you obessed with Iso? If I didn't know better you two are lovers (not the mafia term) because of your flowchart.
@Void: I am used to playing with people who can detect my tone And I vouch for kaburi.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It's a joke because I did indeed mean what I said the first time, but Iso said he wouldn't vote for Teia unless it was the only barrier to me voting GM. So I jokingly reversed because then he would vote for Teia under the presumption I would vote GM with him afterwards.
But he knew it was a joke as well, because he said "seems legit" which means he didn't find it legit at all.
Also my reasoning for voting Teia was that she was within her scum meta, but it seems that her town meta is no more than a single game. I also explained what that meta was. If you don't find it by tomorrow, I'll quote it for you with the rest of my post.
Also, you mean to tell me that your strongest read early game was on Teia...whose scum meta you've never seen before...based on her scum meta...and yet you were unwilling to vote GM...whose scum meta you've never seen before...because you don't know his scum meta?
Yeah, you're scum.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
How was Teia's "town meta" (& how you have this with one game, I dunno) proven to you so thoroughly that you are very certain it's true?
What is it about ignoring a naked vote that you find scummy? You basically refused to explain your vote until Teia had posted more, which she obliged.
Hey Jay, what's WIFOM?
This is weasel speak. Hansanator, please answer this question.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I'll make this as simple as I possibly can.
1. I said that I thought that Jay was "leaning town."
2. Immediately after, I say that (I believe) there is (at least) 1 scum between Jay, Teia, and KK.
3. Since I said nothing else regarding how I perceived Teia and KK, it could be logically assumed that I thought Jay was most likely not the 1 scum because "leaning town" is the opposite of scum. If I said anything about their alignments, then there may have been another story.
NOTE: I said 1 and 2 directly, while 3 should have been implicitly understood. If further clarification is needed, please let me know.
#Not_a_weasel
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Where?
So, do you have any reads aside from Jay/Arcadic possibly being town?
So in other words, you're just playing the odds by saying there's scum between three random players? How's that supposed to help in catching scum?
This is WIFOM, plain and simple.
You did, but that was a question directed specifically at me, so I felt I should answer it. The rest didn't really seem like it needed a response.
I'm curious. Given that you can't actually read the games in question, and theoretically shouldn't even be able to read individual posts of mine from those games, on what basis were you so sure of my meta that you were willing to stake your entire case on me on it? It obviously wasn't very much, given that you didn't know my town meta was just MM6. So why did you deem such obviously incomplete information reliable?
Still unsure of KK's townie-ness.
Still waiting for Hanshotfirst to get lynched for being scum.
1. Arcadic
2. BlackVise
3. Gerrard's Mom
4. hansanator
5. Iso
6. Jay13x
7. kaburi
8. KoolKoal
9. rianalnn
10. Teia Rabishu
11. Void
12. Wheat_Grinder
These people are in the game
2. BlackVise
3. Gerrard's Mom
7. kaburi
These people need to post more or i have zero reads on them.
This is my Handel
Can we lynch him now?
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
I looked it up... and fair enough. I'll drop that line of reasoning.
I agree - we shouldn't have one use (Iso) with 30+ posts while others have less than 10. We've been at this almost a week now.
Is GM still away? Can we 'prod' him? He hasn't posted since Monday.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Fall for what?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Still V/LA until tomorrow at least. I've got fifteen minutes to kill while the engineers unkill my units they killed, and then I'm back to hell week in the lab.
Meanwhile, here are some random reads for you:
kaburi: Towniest townie what ever towned
Jay: either town or some sort of scum!genius (so town)
Iso: **** if I know, never seen him in action before but I just hurt myself in confusion
Teia: Doesn't exactly read like scum!Teia from MM7, but I botched my reading of her so bad in that game I don't know
hansanasana: can't tell if imploding like TK last game or actual scum; I'm willing to go as far as FoS: hans but not convinced enough to vote yet
Void: ...see Iso...
wheat: IGMEOY:sneaky:
KK: reading townish to me, but I need to look back at his more recent stuff
ria: ...see Void...and Iso...although recent pushing on the hanswagon seems townish Another case of people I need to review when I have more time after this week
Arcadic: leaning town
BV: not enough to get a real read, but what I have seen reminds me too much of endgame scum!BV from MM7
GM: Also not enough to get a real read, but I see what Iso called a scum post as being perfectly legit and possible from a town mindset
I think that's everyone. Back to the mines, and I'll provide real content after I can come up for air for longer.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Why are you not defending yourself in full?
Fair enough.
You're either scum, reading me badly or obviously pushing buttons.
With everything I know of you, I'm leaning towards the first or the last.
My question was serious: How often to people fall for that kind of tactic, scum or not?
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
If there's actual pressure on me, that's one thing, but I don't see any reason to get defensive and leap at every mention of my name.
You're okay with me calling your case garbage?
And so was mine...fall for what?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I understand that it is joke and accept it as that becasue of Iso's responses. What I don't understand is how someone would be able to read that text and get that kind of information.
I'm with Iso on this one Re: Teia's meta.
hansanator (3): Arcadic; Teia Rabishu; KoolKoal
Iso (3): Jay13x; Wheat_Grinder; BlackVise
Wheat_Grinder (2): Void; Iso
Not Voting (4): hansanator; rianalnn; kaburi; Gerrard's Mom
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch!
V/LA - Kaburi until 7/26/13
Okay, so part of the reason you're pushing me because you disagree with my push on GM? On what grounds do you disagree with it?
I think it's relevant to context. For example, if someone makes a bad push against me, I can laugh at them and carry on about my business. I'm pretty sure you were the only person (aside from Wheat, who is scum) that was concerned with whether or not I responded to your push on me (and at this point, I'm really just humoring you. Not to be rude).
* Iso sighs.
There's an on-going joke in the mod lounge (that I've taken to a couple of other threads) that I'm kaburi's roommate. Any time I use a picture of Overly Attached Girlfriend in response to a kaburi post, it's a reference to that.
But you said it was a late reaction. So how were you not ignoring me before?
And again, I defer to the counterargument that I was observing scummy behavior and announced such. If you've noticed, I make broad statements to pique people's interests in what I think a scummy player is doing. If I say, "I think player X is scum" early on, people are more inclined to look back and see for themselves what that player is doing. Additionally, it's a great trap if I think a player is town. Careless scum are more inclined to /barn me if they think they can get away with it and get caught that way. Additionally, the way players respond (or don't respond) is a great measurement for early interactions. I'm sorry you don't understand my modus operandi (that goes to Jay, Senator Han, and anyone else who things my style of play is obstructive, as well) but I have great success with it so I'm not planning on stopping any time soon just because a few players don't understand what I'm doing and a few players think it's scummy. I generate reactions. I get things done.
See above
See above
Statement: Wagons can be analyzed based on speed, who's voting, their rationale for voting, and past opinions of the players they've voted for.
Do you disagree?
Come at me, bro.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Note: Not getting to why Iso is being inconsistent yet because this post is gonna take awhile as it is.
I am 100% certain that you are scum this game.
I'm not using the chart, no, but this does follow one of the tenets of the chart. Actually two, when you consider that the chart is all about getting your claim and figuring out your alignment from there. This method dispenses with that.
Also I'm deathly afraid of you but that's because you're scum and I know how scum Iso works.
Because you forgetting is not what actually happened. But that's a post for another day, like maybe tomorrow unless you me and Jey play a game OOG.
Claiming 4 abilities in Starcraft and then reneging on two of them wasn't a mistake?
I know you are having IRL issues, I'm saying that it doesn't make sense here anyway and I will post why extremely soon.
Just wait for it, all will be explained.
Low-hanging fruit, low-hanging fruit, and noob (IE low-hanging fruit)
Iso is my bro.
Also I posted my reasoning on Teia so I'm brushing by those questions.
General announcement: I can't adequately explain the thing with Teia until an ongoing game finishes. At that point, I will explain in detail what happened.
Arcadic knows the future.
Again, because it was reported as stronger as it actually was and I saw it proved. I will say no more until the ongoing game ends so I can discuss it.
My bad. It was obvious that it was a joke to me, didn't think about how anyone else would react to it.
"lol"
Did you just admit that you're trying to get me to claim range regardless of my alignment?
ScumWheat is afraid of TownIso, too, but nice sidestep.
"I can read your mind"
Bolded the relevant part of the question. Considering my team won with a Perfect + victory in Starcraft Mafia, obviously it wasn't a mistake. Thank you for sidestepping the question.
"I can read your mind"
I'm hanging on the edge of my seat in anticipation.
Please explain Senator Han's rationale from a town mindset for each of his posts.
Please explain your rationale from a town mindset for each of your postsoh wait I've already torn down your argument and pointed out how it makes you scum. Please quote for me where you know Jay's Mafia experience from. Unless Megiddo doesn't allow quoting scumchat, in which case, you should do it anyway and save me the trouble of lynching you. :cool3: All the same, Jay's most likely to be the player I'm wrong about from that post."lol"
So basically a bunch of anecdotal bs that you expect us to take at face value and that's that? No. You're going to explain how this meshes with the fact that GM has had public town games before now because this is a huge inconsistency in your stance on why you were unable to determine that GM is playing his scum game and why you believed Teia to be playing to her scum meta. You just busted yourself without even getting to use the stall tactic you were planning on using.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Yeah, that's what the chart needs to work. Screw it, see for yourself:
Please ignore the poor coding, Ecophagy already pointed it out but I'm too lazy to fix it.
BTW I'm accusing you of 2c sans claim.
Starcraft mafia was a broken ass game and no one cared because of the quote walls.
Most of the entries in the chart are from your mistakes.
I'm not actually sure he's town so nah.
Dude he said he was new in the thread. He was specifically asked by KoolKoal.
Why is GM having public games inconsistent? I haven't read any of them so I still don't know his meta, and you never pointed to examples. I felt the town reason was strong enough that I never felt the need to go poking, even when the existence of public games was made known to me, because I don't have much time.
On the other hand, I did have an interest in finding Teia's games to prove her meta, because I DID think that made her scum, because I was given misinformation while reading the ongoing game I've referred to a few times. I was told that as town she plays poorly, while as scum she questions a lot. At first I didn't see as many questions as I needed to be sure, but as time went on there was no poor play so I figured it was not her town meta.
That is the last I'm saying about this until that game finishes because I can't fully explain it without getting modkilled until then.
I know it sucks as an answer, I hate giving crappy answers, but the real answer is locked to me via the rules.
So I'm supposed to take your word for it that you're attempting to get me to claim to determine my alignment instead of because you want the information as scum?
That doesn't make any sense.
Regardless, it worked.
Please reference each of my 82 completed Mafia games and tell me which each is from - because if your chart has only 7 parts, that's a pretty pitiful sample size (and I'd also point out that Starcraft was only my 15th game - I've learned a lot since then).
Yet he's low-hanging fruit which makes me scum for pushing him.
Writing in big font so everyone reads this and Wheat's many inconsistent stances through his posts that I've broken down.
The point is that you chose two completely different options when faced with two nearly identical choices. Teia does not have any completed games outside of the Mod Lounge. GM does, though none of them are town. You were faced with two separate instances of a player saying, "This person's scum meta per Modfias correlates with their play here," at nearly the same time. At that point, you had the option of reading GM's past games (Flamingo Mafia and Megiddo's Avatar's) that were available to the public eye to check to see if what I was saying about GM's scum game was present in his public town games. But you ignored that in favor of looking into Teia. The problem with that is that you based your decision on somebody else saying that this was Teia's scum meta in a nearly analogous way to how I presented my push on GM. Why is this inconsistent? Because you completely ignored my push on GM! What's more is that following that, you developed your scum read on me for declaring my read on GM being based on meta but not the player who was initially pushing Teia. You've focused on me so completely that you're tripping over your stances. So why, Wheat, did you choose to ignore my push on GM over the push on Teia, both for meta reasons, both of which you are unable to access (as Teia has no public town games, and GM has no public scum games)?
This is not consistent and I would love to hear you try to dig yourself out of this one.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player