Barring highly abnormal circumstances, there's no way you can be 100% certain. Now, this might seem like a trivial semantic nitpick, but I think it's showing a major flaw in your reasoning. You're taking incomplete information and jumping to what you see as infallible conclusions. In other words, you're gaining certainty from uncertain premises. This is the same fundamental problem with your meta case on me, actually. It's a very bad and ultimately detrimental thing for you to do.
You're not using the chart, but you're accusing him of doing something from the chart? Also that section of the chart seems to deal with making up a claim and dropping parts of it, not dropping parts of his arguments. So basically using the chart as an illustration obfuscates things rather than clarifying them.
Low-hanging fruit, low-hanging fruit, and noob (IE low-hanging fruit)
That's not arguing based on merits. If scum make themselves low-hanging fruit, then that status doesn't make going after them any more wrong.
I was told that as town she plays poorly, while as scum she questions a lot.
You were given broad, sweeping, dichotomous generalizations and decided to accept them as truth at face value? That's not just bad, but intellectually dishonest as well.
**** it, I know I was suspicious of Iso earlier, but apparently I was mistaken. Wheat's increasingly scummy the deeper he digs himself. Again, my vote's staying where it is because I think hansanator strongly needs to be lynched, so FOS Wheat_Grinder.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Iso - At some point--and there are probably a few instances of this-- you said that I was scum. How certain are you that I am scum and why? (a percentage would work quite nicely)
If it got down to it, would you feel comfortable hammering the final vote on me?
@Wheat - You somewhat boldly proclaim that you are 100% certain that Iso is scum. From what I have seen, you seem to have played a plethora of games with Iso. Approximately how many games did you rightly accuse Iso of being scum on D1 to have him later flip scum? (I suppose you can count games where he was one of your top 2-3 suspects; he didn't have to be lynched on D1, just as long as you had already caught him and he later flipped scum)
In how many games did you wrongly accuse him of being scum on D1 to have him flip town? (the same details should apply here)
Lastly, do you legitimately believe that Iso is 100% scum, or were you exaggerating your suspicions?
@Everyone - Can you see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
I was certain in my reads, so I didn't play carefully.
I can see I'm not going to dig myself out of this and while I'd like to hide one part of my ability, the other part would end up screwing over the town if I don't claim now.
I'm Weavile. It says something about sharp claw right under, but above my height/weight, dunno what that's about.
I have a passive ability called Pressure: Abilities that target me cost an extra PP. This doesn't stop abilities with only 1PP remaining.
I also have the move Blizzard, with 1PP. It's a standard vig shot.
I was going to vig Iso toNight if he wasn't lynched. I'm still going to try, in fact, but I doubt it'll work.
Hmmm... the pressure ability sounds pretty awesome, but I'm surprised that blizzard is a vig shot. Based on Weavile's moveset, I could think of some much better moves that could be a vig, most notably something like night slash.
I'm troubled over claims such as this, because it could very easily be a scum ruse to prevent people from targeting you for info. I'll try to explain this better later on today.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
I was certain in my reads, so I didn't play carefully.
I can see I'm not going to dig myself out of this and while I'd like to hide one part of my ability, the other part would end up screwing over the town if I don't claim now.
I'm Weavile. It says something about sharp claw right under, but above my height/weight, dunno what that's about.
I have a passive ability called Pressure: Abilities that target me cost an extra PP. This doesn't stop abilities with only 1PP remaining.
I also have the move Blizzard, with 1PP. It's a standard vig shot.
I was going to vig Iso toNight if he wasn't lynched. I'm still going to try, in fact, but I doubt it'll work.
...Did I miss something? What just prompted this claim? I'm running on ~ 2 hours of sleep so it's totally possible I'm that nonfunctional.
...Did I miss something? What just prompted this claim? I'm running on ~ 2 hours of sleep so it's totally possible I'm that nonfunctional.
I said some things that I didn't think through that are ultimately indefensible. Rather than wait to be brought to claim range, I'm going there now to save time and move the game forward. And even if I wasn't brought to claim range, I think I'm a target for info PR's toNight. This way, I'm much more likely to be a target for scum PR's instead due to the vig shot, and any other PR's have fair warning.
Iso's case on Wheat sucks. Wheat's case on Iso sucks. I wouldn't be surprised if both of them turned out to be town at this point.
I see Iso's case as bad because I actually believe Wheat's story about Teia. I've thought of Teia's scum meta easy to grasp for a while now, but its true that she only has one completed town game (though the fact that she was the first doctor the scum happily left alive that I've ever heard of speaks strongly).
Wheat's case is bad because, as other people have pointed out, it hinges on the belief that Iso only makes mistakes when he's scum.
I see no reason to disbelieve Wheat's claim, and hansanator's attempts to poke holes in it with flavor gaming make me even happier to lynch him.
@Void: Why did you not comment on Wheat's claim?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
He's jumped on popular wagons 3 times now, always with lame reasoning. First he called me overly defensive for not answering Iso's vague question, then he called Iso scum listing his vague questioning of me as one of the reasons (just those two put together are awful logic), and now he's jumped on Wheat's wagon with nothing more than a /barn and he's setting up a chain lynch back to Iso if wheat's town.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
hansanator's attempts to poke holes in it with flavor gaming make me even happier to lynch him.
Meh. Everything that I do is scummy, eh?
I have done next to nothing in terms of analyzing others, but I noticed something that entered my realm of expertise. As I said, the pressure ability makes perfect sense, and both my ability and move make perfect sense, but I just can't see the connection with blizzard being a vig shot when there are better alternatives, aside from maybe it being one of weavile's most powerful moves.
My (crazy, abstract, and probably preposterous) suspicion is that Wheat is still keeping part of his role a secret, like he said that he wanted to. Does this mean that he is scum? Absolutely not. Could he be scum? Sure! (The pressure claim would scare off any cops because investigating two unknown people would be a much better option than confirming one person's claim)
I do give him town points for claiming when he did, though. By warning us about pressure, he has saved some power roles.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Sorry, I'm not actually away, just don't have time to do in depth reads at work and we just moved so there are higher priority things at home. I have committed to a read through by the weekend, which I think I can still fulfill.
I have kind of read all the posts and understand why Iso is pushing for Wheat_Grinder, but I'm not sure exactly what case people are pushing on hansanator. I'm sure I'll pick it up on the reread.
@Iso - At some point--and there are probably a few instances of this-- you said that I was scum. How certain are you that I am scum and why? (a percentage would work quite nicely)
If it got down to it, would you feel comfortable hammering the final vote on me?
Would have to re-read your posts but I'd say I'm at least 67% sure.
Quote from hansanator »
@Everyone - Can you see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
I can't think of a retort clever enough to respond with.
I was certain in my reads, so I didn't play carefully.
I can see I'm not going to dig myself out of this and while I'd like to hide one part of my ability, the other part would end up screwing over the town if I don't claim now.
I'm Weavile. It says something about sharp claw right under, but above my height/weight, dunno what that's about.
I have a passive ability called Pressure: Abilities that target me cost an extra PP. This doesn't stop abilities with only 1PP remaining.
I also have the move Blizzard, with 1PP. It's a standard vig shot.
I was going to vig Iso toNight if he wasn't lynched. I'm still going to try, in fact, but I doubt it'll work.
I wouldn't do that if I were you. Also, I'm unconvinced of your claim. You're probably a Roleblocker. You and I, not too long ago, discussed the use of Vig as a falseclaim and I'm pretty sure that's what you're doing here.
...Did I miss something? What just prompted this claim? I'm running on ~ 2 hours of sleep so it's totally possible I'm that nonfunctional.
I said some things that I didn't think through that are ultimately indefensible. Rather than wait to be brought to claim range, I'm going there now to save time and move the game forward. And even if I wasn't brought to claim range, I think I'm a target for info PR's toNight. This way, I'm much more likely to be a target for scum PR's instead due to the vig shot, and any other PR's have fair warning.
So it's not legitimate that I forgot that you hadn't seem GM's scum meta but it's totally legitimate that you simply "didn't think" about your push on me that you were "100% sure" about?
Iso's case on Wheat sucks. Wheat's case on Iso sucks. I wouldn't be surprised if both of them turned out to be town at this point.
I see Iso's case as bad because I actually believe Wheat's story about Teia. I've thought of Teia's scum meta easy to grasp for a while now, but its true that she only has one completed town game (though the fact that she was the first doctor the scum happily left alive that I've ever heard of speaks strongly).
It's hypocritical of Wheat to push me and that makes my case bad? Go from here.
And this is one reason why I would not be opposed to you being lynched.
-
@Wheat: My Ability is called Thick Fat. That's all I'm saying and I'm sure you'll figure out the rest from there and why it would be dumb for you to target me with a hypothetical Vig shot. I'm only claiming this because you might not be the lynch because of your claim and that last couple of posts really makes me wanna see Senator Han hang. .-.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I wouldn't do that if I were you. Also, I'm unconvinced of your claim. You're probably a Roleblocker. You and I, not too long ago, discussed the use of Vig as a falseclaim and I'm pretty sure that's what you're doing here.
You don't come up with that for no reason, why do you think I'm a roleblocker?
If it's the discussion I'm thinking about, look again and realize why I wouldn't make that falseclaim, please.
So it's not legitimate that I forgot that you hadn't seem GM's scum meta but it's totally legitimate that you simply "didn't think" about your push on me that you were "100% sure" about?
I smell a rat.
You don't often make mistakes. You won't get caught unless someone pounces on every single one. But I do make mistakes pretty often. I was lynched in at least the past 3 games I was in. You know this because you modded them. I am a perennial scum candidate because of it.
This time was worse than normal but it's the truth regardless.
@Wheat: My Ability is called Thick Fat. That's all I'm saying and I'm sure you'll figure out the rest from there and why it would be dumb for you to target me with a hypothetical Vig shot. I'm only claiming this because you might not be the lynch because of your claim and that last couple of posts really makes me wanna see Senator Han hang. .-.
I'm fine with lynching you instead and letting my vig shot be guided thereafter.
I wouldn't do that if I were you. Also, I'm unconvinced of your claim. You're probably a Roleblocker. You and I, not too long ago, discussed the use of Vig as a falseclaim and I'm pretty sure that's what you're doing here.
You don't come up with that for no reason, why do you think I'm a roleblocker?
ice
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
If it's the discussion I'm thinking about, look again and realize why I wouldn't make that falseclaim, please.
Does not compute.
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
So it's not legitimate that I forgot that you hadn't seem GM's scum meta but it's totally legitimate that you simply "didn't think" about your push on me that you were "100% sure" about?
I smell a rat.
You don't often make mistakes. You won't get caught unless someone pounces on every single one. But I do make mistakes pretty often. I was lynched in at least the past 3 games I was in. You know this because you modded them. I am a perennial scum candidate because of it.
This time was worse than normal but it's the truth regardless.
So tell me, is scumIso or townIso more inclined to make mistakes? Cite examples.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Iso - At some point--and there are probably a few instances of this-- you said that I was scum. How certain are you that I am scum and why? (a percentage would work quite nicely)
If it got down to it, would you feel comfortable hammering the final vote on me?
Would have to re-read your posts but I'd say I'm at least 67% sure.
So tell me, is scumIso or townIso more inclined to make mistakes? Cite examples.
I think that town Iso would be more likely to be upfront about it, where scum Iso would lie about it. Both would make mistakes, but small ones.
And now that I think about that, you might have been upfront with that one post.
I'm going to take a step back when I look at your posting and see if it does make sense, because now I'm not sure. But I'm still going to take a look and post my results. Not sure when but this weekend for sure.
I think that town Iso would be more likely to be upfront about it, where scum Iso would lie about it. Both would make mistakes, but small ones.
"I forgot"
I'm pretty sure that's being relatively up front about making a mistake
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
I'm going to take a step back when I look at your posting and see if it does make sense, because now I'm not sure. But I'm still going to take a look and post my results. Not sure when but this weekend for sure.
"I'm going to back away from my 100% scum read because it's suddenly not 100% anymore now that I've had to claim"
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Cats! That's what I was thinking would make a whole lot more sense! (assuming his move really is blizzard)
But I think that given the intensity of blizzard, it be more than a mere roleblock. Mayhaps it's a 1-shot roleblock everyone?
Having seen a game with a oneshot roleblock all during my studies I can almost buy this as a thing.
However, I'm vehemently anti-setup spec as a scum hunting tool, having been on the both wrong ends of it in the spectacularly bad TK nongambit in MM7. That put you over the threshold of more weaseliness than I'm willing to tolerate. Based on my (albeit limited) experience, flavor gaming and setup speculation are the tools scum use to obfuscate town roles and sic townies on each other. Eff that noise: vote hansanator.
@Kaburi - why did you choose to not address Iso's act of flavor gaming? I was adding my own comment to further an idea of his.
Also, I'd have to disagree with your claim that flavor gaming and setup speculation are scum tools. I'd consider them common sense. Since I haven't been analyzing behavior or anything like that, I believe that I'm doing the next best thing: attempting to hack the game through role speculation (I kid :p). But seriously, if there are notable patterns in the setup, I certainly think that they could be utilized to catch scum.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
With that being said, what is the point of me paraphrasing that post?
I'm not seeing it I want you to paraphrase so I can see what you think you are barning.
I don't like that Wheat cut his wagon short, with two weeks before deadline to let that develop organically.
I like even less that hans ignored my 'what reads do you have' question to speculate about what role Wheat might REALLY have, while still insistently maintaining no position on Wheat's alignment.
PPE@hans – Flavour is a trap. Gaming the mod is a trap (:hi: Megs). I thought you were a logic dude? Am I confusing you with someone else? Where is the logic in random speculation?
Ok.... Since it seems I won't even get to look at a vote count before you guys lynch me, I'll go ahead and claim. *glares at Iso for voting without even waiting for a count*
My pokemon is Driftblim.
My ability is aftermath. When I die, I kill whoever it was that killed me.
In addition to this, I have 2PP of the move ominous wind. When used, all night actions that should have targeted me will fail.
*glares at Iso for voting after I asked for a vote count*
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But seriously, if there are notable patterns in the setup, I certainly think that they could be utilized to catch scum.
you seriously intend to pick this thread up on Day 1, using info from someone who you don't even think is telling you the whole truth
I was referring to speculation in general; I wasn't talking about Wheat's specific case. I'm not aware of any significantly useful patterns at this moment, but I certainly won't find them if I don't look.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I explain things as I go, and if people have any questions, they're free to ask them. But I'm not going to leap on people simply for disagreeing.
Barring highly abnormal circumstances, there's no way you can be 100% certain. Now, this might seem like a trivial semantic nitpick, but I think it's showing a major flaw in your reasoning. You're taking incomplete information and jumping to what you see as infallible conclusions. In other words, you're gaining certainty from uncertain premises. This is the same fundamental problem with your meta case on me, actually. It's a very bad and ultimately detrimental thing for you to do.
You're not using the chart, but you're accusing him of doing something from the chart? Also that section of the chart seems to deal with making up a claim and dropping parts of it, not dropping parts of his arguments. So basically using the chart as an illustration obfuscates things rather than clarifying them.
That's not arguing based on merits. If scum make themselves low-hanging fruit, then that status doesn't make going after them any more wrong.
You were given broad, sweeping, dichotomous generalizations and decided to accept them as truth at face value? That's not just bad, but intellectually dishonest as well.
**** it, I know I was suspicious of Iso earlier, but apparently I was mistaken. Wheat's increasingly scummy the deeper he digs himself. Again, my vote's staying where it is because I think hansanator strongly needs to be lynched, so FOS Wheat_Grinder.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Iso - At some point--and there are probably a few instances of this-- you said that I was scum. How certain are you that I am scum and why? (a percentage would work quite nicely)
If it got down to it, would you feel comfortable hammering the final vote on me?
@Wheat - You somewhat boldly proclaim that you are 100% certain that Iso is scum. From what I have seen, you seem to have played a plethora of games with Iso. Approximately how many games did you rightly accuse Iso of being scum on D1 to have him later flip scum? (I suppose you can count games where he was one of your top 2-3 suspects; he didn't have to be lynched on D1, just as long as you had already caught him and he later flipped scum)
In how many games did you wrongly accuse him of being scum on D1 to have him flip town? (the same details should apply here)
Lastly, do you legitimately believe that Iso is 100% scum, or were you exaggerating your suspicions?
@Everyone - Can you see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I can see I'm not going to dig myself out of this and while I'd like to hide one part of my ability, the other part would end up screwing over the town if I don't claim now.
I'm Weavile. It says something about sharp claw right under, but above my height/weight, dunno what that's about.
I have a passive ability called Pressure: Abilities that target me cost an extra PP. This doesn't stop abilities with only 1PP remaining.
I also have the move Blizzard, with 1PP. It's a standard vig shot.
I was going to vig Iso toNight if he wasn't lynched. I'm still going to try, in fact, but I doubt it'll work.
I'm troubled over claims such as this, because it could very easily be a scum ruse to prevent people from targeting you for info. I'll try to explain this better later on today.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
...Did I miss something? What just prompted this claim? I'm running on ~ 2 hours of sleep so it's totally possible I'm that nonfunctional.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Iso's post is about 5 - 8 posts above yours.
With that being said, what is the point of me paraphrasing that post?
I said some things that I didn't think through that are ultimately indefensible. Rather than wait to be brought to claim range, I'm going there now to save time and move the game forward. And even if I wasn't brought to claim range, I think I'm a target for info PR's toNight. This way, I'm much more likely to be a target for scum PR's instead due to the vig shot, and any other PR's have fair warning.
I see Iso's case as bad because I actually believe Wheat's story about Teia. I've thought of Teia's scum meta easy to grasp for a while now, but its true that she only has one completed town game (though the fact that she was the first doctor the scum happily left alive that I've ever heard of speaks strongly).
Wheat's case is bad because, as other people have pointed out, it hinges on the belief that Iso only makes mistakes when he's scum.
I see no reason to disbelieve Wheat's claim, and hansanator's attempts to poke holes in it with flavor gaming make me even happier to lynch him.
@Void: Why did you not comment on Wheat's claim?
He's jumped on popular wagons 3 times now, always with lame reasoning. First he called me overly defensive for not answering Iso's vague question, then he called Iso scum listing his vague questioning of me as one of the reasons (just those two put together are awful logic), and now he's jumped on Wheat's wagon with nothing more than a /barn and he's setting up a chain lynch back to Iso if wheat's town.
I'm still thinking about it. The way Wheaties just volunteered the information is strange, but is understandble from both a Town or Scum mindset.
Is there reason why you called me out and not anyone else?
That's what I thought, but still had to check.
Meh. Everything that I do is scummy, eh?
I have done next to nothing in terms of analyzing others, but I noticed something that entered my realm of expertise. As I said, the pressure ability makes perfect sense, and both my ability and move make perfect sense, but I just can't see the connection with blizzard being a vig shot when there are better alternatives, aside from maybe it being one of weavile's most powerful moves.
My (crazy, abstract, and probably preposterous) suspicion is that Wheat is still keeping part of his role a secret, like he said that he wanted to. Does this mean that he is scum? Absolutely not. Could he be scum? Sure! (The pressure claim would scare off any cops because investigating two unknown people would be a much better option than confirming one person's claim)
I do give him town points for claiming when he did, though. By warning us about pressure, he has saved some power roles.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Is there a problem?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I have kind of read all the posts and understand why Iso is pushing for Wheat_Grinder, but I'm not sure exactly what case people are pushing on hansanator. I'm sure I'll pick it up on the reread.
Would have to re-read your posts but I'd say I'm at least 67% sure.
I can't think of a retort clever enough to respond with.
I wouldn't do that if I were you. Also, I'm unconvinced of your claim. You're probably a Roleblocker. You and I, not too long ago, discussed the use of Vig as a falseclaim and I'm pretty sure that's what you're doing here.
So it's not legitimate that I forgot that you hadn't seem GM's scum meta but it's totally legitimate that you simply "didn't think" about your push on me that you were "100% sure" about?
I smell a rat.
It's hypocritical of Wheat to push me and that makes my case bad? Go from here.
Yes.
And this is one reason why I would not be opposed to you being lynched.
-
@Wheat: My Ability is called Thick Fat. That's all I'm saying and I'm sure you'll figure out the rest from there and why it would be dumb for you to target me with a hypothetical Vig shot. I'm only claiming this because you might not be the lynch because of your claim and that last couple of posts really makes me wanna see Senator Han hang. .-.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You don't come up with that for no reason, why do you think I'm a roleblocker?
If it's the discussion I'm thinking about, look again and realize why I wouldn't make that falseclaim, please.
You don't often make mistakes. You won't get caught unless someone pounces on every single one. But I do make mistakes pretty often. I was lynched in at least the past 3 games I was in. You know this because you modded them. I am a perennial scum candidate because of it.
This time was worse than normal but it's the truth regardless.
I'm fine with lynching you instead and letting my vig shot be guided thereafter.
Also, are you Snorlax?
ice
Does not compute.
So tell me, is scumIso or townIso more inclined to make mistakes? Cite examples.
no comment
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Interesting.... so what about hammering?
I fail to see said problem. Am I being a waffle? (Did I do that correctly?) These quotes basically sum up my thoughts on Wheat's claim.
Does that potentially resolve this problem?
Cats! That's what I was thinking would make a whole lot more sense! (assuming his move really is blizzard)
But I think that given the intensity of blizzard, it be more than a mere roleblock. Mayhaps it's a 1-shot roleblock everyone?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
OK.
I think that town Iso would be more likely to be upfront about it, where scum Iso would lie about it. Both would make mistakes, but small ones.
And now that I think about that, you might have been upfront with that one post.
I'm going to take a step back when I look at your posting and see if it does make sense, because now I'm not sure. But I'm still going to take a look and post my results. Not sure when but this weekend for sure.
"I forgot"
I'm pretty sure that's being relatively up front about making a mistake
"I'm going to back away from my 100% scum read because it's suddenly not 100% anymore now that I've had to claim"
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Having seen a game with a oneshot roleblock all during my studies I can almost buy this as a thing.
However, I'm vehemently anti-setup spec as a scum hunting tool, having been on the both wrong ends of it in the spectacularly bad TK nongambit in MM7. That put you over the threshold of more weaseliness than I'm willing to tolerate. Based on my (albeit limited) experience, flavor gaming and setup speculation are the tools scum use to obfuscate town roles and sic townies on each other. Eff that noise: vote hansanator.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
@Mod - Can I get a vote count?
------------------
@Kaburi - why did you choose to not address Iso's act of flavor gaming? I was adding my own comment to further an idea of his.
Also, I'd have to disagree with your claim that flavor gaming and setup speculation are scum tools. I'd consider them common sense. Since I haven't been analyzing behavior or anything like that, I believe that I'm doing the next best thing: attempting to hack the game through role speculation (I kid :p). But seriously, if there are notable patterns in the setup, I certainly think that they could be utilized to catch scum.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm not seeing it I want you to paraphrase so I can see what you think you are barning.
I don't like that Wheat cut his wagon short, with two weeks before deadline to let that develop organically.
I like even less that hans ignored my 'what reads do you have' question to speculate about what role Wheat might REALLY have, while still insistently maintaining no position on Wheat's alignment.
PPE@hans – Flavour is a trap. Gaming the mod is a trap (:hi: Megs). I thought you were a logic dude? Am I confusing you with someone else? Where is the logic in random speculation?
vote:hansanator – my count puts you at 5.
This forum requires that you wait 30 seconds between posts. Please try again in 6 seconds.
you seriously intend to pick this thread up on Day 1, using info from someone who you don't even think is telling you the whole truth
My pokemon is Driftblim.
My ability is aftermath. When I die, I kill whoever it was that killed me.
In addition to this, I have 2PP of the move ominous wind. When used, all night actions that should have targeted me will fail.
*glares at Iso for voting after I asked for a vote count*
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I call bull.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I volunteer to hammer him just in case; I think that's the best option despite me really wanting to use my vig shot.
I was referring to speculation in general; I wasn't talking about Wheat's specific case. I'm not aware of any significantly useful patterns at this moment, but I certainly won't find them if I don't look.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I counted
It's one thing to make notes of patterns. It is another thing to string fairly floss in the thread without taking any actual position.
In that case, I apologize.
It was just that barely 10 minutes after I asked for a count, I racked up 2 votes.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
"guys look how town I am I'm willing to die"
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'd prefer to be called a 2-shot commuting bomb, but yep, that's my role.
Are you jelly of how OP it is?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
hansanator (5): Arcadic; Teia Rabishu; KoolKoal; kaburi; Iso
Iso (2): Jay13x; Wheat_Grinder
Wheat_Grinder (2): Void; BlackVise
Not Voting (3): hansanator; rianalnn; Gerrard's Mom
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch!
Reminder: Please make all votes on new lines! This makes it much easier for me to process them.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@hans: does your ability only hit those that kill you or does it also hit the hammerer when you're lynched.
"I'm a 2-Shot Untargetable Bomb!"
That seems like an awful lot of protection to go through to make anything happen.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
From my understanding, it would kill the person responsible in both of those scenarios.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Iso, you know it's best play for the scummiest player to hammer the bomb.
It sucks but I'm the scummiest player.
deal w/it
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player