Wheat claimed without being in claim range, and he's claiming to be a vig with Pressure.
Then Iso claims to have Thick Fat as an ability. I'm not going to speculate on what he meant or anything, but I'm just noting because it's another unprompted claim. That said, the accusation of Wheat being a roleblocker is oddly specific. Why roleblocker, specifically?
We get hans' claim, and it's a two-shot commuter that's also a bomb. I don't know how Mafia setups normally go, so I can't gauge the plausibility of a commuter bomb, but it seems anti-synergistic enough that I don't believe it.
So yeah, hans needs to get lynched. I don't know what to make of Wheat's claim at the moment, although I'll be interested to see what, if anything, comes of it.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I can see that, but that seems a bit flavour-game-y to me. You mentioned discussing fakeclaims earlier, though, which is why I was wondering if there was anything more to your reasoning that you'd left out or not.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I thought it was a typo of "Nice." Iso had just gone through his "we've talked about falseclaiming vig" thing, then wheat said "why do you think I'm roleblocker." I thought it was a sarcastic "nice" because their previous conversation was about that. These two clearly have history, so I figured Iso was being his usual flippant self. I didn't get that he actually meant "ice" until:
Seeing that, I get what Iso is saying. I still don't like flavor gaming, and I'm already suspicious of Iso anyway because he's Iso. So this is me also callng him out on it. I'm watching you sleep roomie.
As to your rejection of behavioral analyses in favor of "hacking the game", hansanator, we'll just have to agree to disagree. On day one, we simply don't have enough information to start that sort of analysis, so it becomes obfuscation and wifom, the stock and trade of scum. Later on in the game, when we have some flips and some counterclaims, that's different.
You think it's suspicious that I don't believe the claim of one of my top scum reads and that I drew a connection between flavor and ability to support my argument?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You think it's suspicious that I don't believe the claim of one of my top scum reads and that I drew a connection between flavor and ability to support my argument?
No, I'm saying I'm suspicious of you in general. I can't trust myself to read you because you're some sort of mafia Jedi who could be working mind hoodoo on me. YOU COULD BE IN MY BRAIN RIGHT NOW.
It's a personal policy of never trusting the most experienced player. Basically, I automatically distrust you and all the nonmods in this game until I see a compelling pattern of townish behavior.
If I didn't want to lynch hans so badly right now I'd be voting wheat. I agree that his claim is dubious.
I didn't know that you guys were waiting on me; I just thought you guys were deciding who was the most expendable. If it were up to me, I'd have the people telling others to make the last vote hammer.
(Hint: There are 2-3 people who already know that I'm town, and they will refuse to hammer because it just isn't worth it to trade an already outnumbered mafioso for a single mislynch. These people are potentially already on the wagon, so they may try to egg on others to hammer for them.)
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
I PM'd Meg and received no comment on the subject; however, I reread my role pm and the way that it's worded makes me about 95% sure that my ability will kill whoever is responsible for my death-- be it hammer or night kill.
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I PM'd Meg and received no comment on the subject; however, I reread my role pm and the way that it's worded makes me about 95% sure that my ability will kill whoever is responsible for my death-- be it hammer or night kill.
I call bull. Megiddo would tell you how your ability works if you had one.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Post 91: I call out that there's a town reason, and Occam's even points to it.
Post 94: Iso states he thinks I haven't played with GM, while he knows GM's meta. <- IMPORTANT
Post 96-97: I confirm this and say I cannot know either, unless he has public games, and reiterate my reasoning.
Post 99: "Why, Wheat?"
Post 104: I explain why, and say I'm worried about Iso's alignment.
Post 105: "That's the exact opposite reaction that town GM should be having." Also, Iso doesn't give a damn what a think, I'm scum in his eyes.
Post 106: I reiterate (in bold) that I don't know GM's alignment.
Post 108: Iso states it's not just meta, but mindset. He notes the earlier push was lacking.
Post 112: I ask why he didn't use that reasoning earlier.
Post 113: "Because I forgot you didn't know GM's scum meta."
Analysis
I think it's pretty obvious that Iso knew I didn't know GM's scum meta at 106 and after, given that ensuing conversation.
So it has to be between 96 where I confirm I didn't know GM's meta (which Iso suspected I did not in the first place) and 106. That leaves two posts: 99, and 105. 99 is a two word query for reasoning, so it has to be 105. Looking at 105, it would make sense as a response to that.
However, by timestamps, only 15 hours had passed from him seeing me confirm that I didn't know GM's meta, which is what he thought in the first place. So I sort of doubt that anyway, but I'd give it the benefit of the doubt.
That is, I would, if that's what it was in response to.
You see, I asked why he didn't lead with that observation, since it's not meta based and it's stronger than everything else he posted in the absence of meta. He said it was because he forgot that I, specifically me, didn't know GM's meta. I know at least Jay13x is new. So I was not the only one who didn't know that meta.
So, while that response would make sense in one context if you stretch it a little, it does not make sense in the overall context.
Lynch Iso if I'm gone tomorrow, please. I'd vig him if hansanator was lying about his ability (which he probably is) and survived to Night but Iso has Thick Fat anyway so I can't.
I PM'd Meg and received no comment on the subject; however, I reread my role pm and the way that it's worded makes me about 95% sure that my ability will kill whoever is responsible for my death-- be it hammer or night kill.
I call bull. Megiddo would tell you how your ability works if you had one.
We've got a live one.
No matter your alignment, I agree with this logic.
@Wheat: If you are town (which I doubt), you need to take off the blinders and analyze the state of the game in its entirety, especially if you die at the end of the Day.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@KK: I will hammer Hans on the off-chance he's telling the truth.
The question was who you want to hammer him. You've already said you're willing, but do you want to hammer him more than you would like anyone else to?
I don't want the day to end until everyone (including hans) has answered my question. And arcadic and jay13x should weigh in on the discussion that happened in the past few days.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
@Wheat: If you are town (which I doubt), you need to take off the blinders and analyze the state of the game in its entirety, especially if you die at the end of the Day.
I did take my blinders off when I analyzed that. I thought there might have been a way it made sense. But I don't think it does.
I will try to assess the overall state later today.
@KK: I will hammer Hans on the off-chance he's telling the truth.
The question was who you want to hammer him. You've already said you're willing, but do you want to hammer him more than you would like anyone else to?
I don't want the day to end until everyone (including hans) has answered my question. And arcadic and jay13x should weigh in on the discussion that happened in the past few days.
In that case, Iso, of course. If not him, then Hans himself, if he'll do it. Which I doubt.
Besides that, I'll be looking at the gamestate tonight.
Wow a lot happened while I was gone. I apologize, I took Friday off to spend the day with my wife while she is between rotations, and yesterday we took her family to visit my parent's new house which is about 40 minutes away, leaving me only enough time to finish prepping to run my group's biweekly Pathfinder game. I'll make an effort to post at least once a weekend.
Please quote for me where you know Jay's Mafia experience from. Unless Megiddo doesn't allow quoting scumchat, in which case, you should do it anyway and save me the trouble of lynching you. :cool3: All the same, Jay's most likely to be the player I'm wrong about from that post.
I've been real honest here, but I'll repeat it - this is my first Mafia game, but I've played werewolf, Battlestar Galactica and The Resistance (all similar games) before.
If we are going to flavor game, maybe we should take a look at the fact that a Dark and Ghost type pokemon (both closely associated with bad guys in those games) have both revealed themselves.
I also think it's very convenient that Handsanitizer claims his ability will kill whoever takes him out.
In any case, the Iso/Wheat argument has made me doubtful of my conclusions, and I've suspected Wheat for some time as well, so I'm going to back off Iso for now.
Handsanitizer, on the other hand, can't seem to keep his pokemon in it's ball, and has reignited old suspicions (he was the first one I voted for).
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Mod: I'm going to be v/la starting Monday until Friday afternoon and will be unable to post during that time. I may still have limited access for a couple of days afterwards: relatives are coming to visit for the weekend and while I don't expect I'll be tied to them the whole time, it could happen.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
I don't like this question because it's asking everyone who they would like to kill; however, I don't have a problem answering it because I am the martyr at stake.
People who I wouldn't mind hammering me: Teia, KK, Iso, and anyone else who told another person to hammer
People who I do not want to hammer me: Jay, Void, Wheat, and rianalnn
I PM'd Meg and received no comment on the subject; however, I reread my role pm and the way that it's worded makes me about 95% sure that my ability will kill whoever is responsible for my death-- be it hammer or night kill.
I call bull. Megiddo would tell you how your ability works if you had one.
We've got a live one.
If it helps you sleep at night, you can believe whatever you want.
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
If hans flips scum, scrutinize Jay/Void/Wheat/rianalnn. I doubt he'd be foolish enough to list both his buddies in there, but I'd be surprised if that list was all town, and picking from a small pool is more likely to find scum than picking from a larger pool.
If hans flips scum, scrutinize Jay/Void/Wheat/rianalnn. I doubt he'd be foolish enough to list both his buddies in there, but I'd be surprised if that list was all town, and picking from a small pool is more likely to find scum than picking from a larger pool.
Achievement unlocked: Gigantic Stinking Pile of WIFOM. 30G.
Given that there's probably 3 scum, and he probably didn't list all his buddies there as you say, that doesn't actually help us at all.
I think that's a statement made to look helpful without actually looking helpful at best, and misdirection from the actual scum at worst.
Both ends of the spectrum lie in scum territory.
I think Teia is scum again, no meta this time.
I have a little time before making dinner, I'm going to read over the thread and post end of Day reads.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If hans flips scum, scrutinize Jay/Void/Wheat/rianalnn. I doubt he'd be foolish enough to list both his buddies in there, but I'd be surprised if that list was all town, and picking from a small pool is more likely to find scum than picking from a larger pool.
In addition to what Wheat said, you ignored my question I've been throwing around that helpfully begins with "@Everyone" so you'd know it was for you.
This might not be so bad if you had actually talked about your reads or the current game-state, instead of possible WIFOMy futures. +scum for Teia
See you all Friday.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Senator Han, who do you think the scum driving your wagon are and why?
Hmmmmm.... I could just be paranoid, but Teia seems to be the most likely person to be conducting the lynch train. I feel like other people have been jumping aboard because I do appear to be flailing like a scum fish, but it has seemed like Teia has been going after the easy pickings that I made of myself and manipulating my lack of skill at this game to appear pro-town. I think that Teia is leaning scum the most out of anyone.
KK's hopping on and off my wagon a few times makes me see him as more towny. It seems as though he was trying to make sense of my nonsensical playstyle. I didn't like his "pick someone to hammer" question, but it could potentially reap valuable responses.
I wasn't a fan of Wheat's claim, but I've liked his play post-my claim. I'm intrigued that he admitted to being the scummiest player in #259, not including myself of course.
I did not like Arcadic's play early on, but his initial push on me was likely town.
Jay is town.
Iso.... Ultimately Iso has felt more town that scum, but I do believe that the thick fat is a bluff. Perhaps he's mafia or perhaps he just didn't want to be vigged on N1.
I understand that you guys have every reason in the books to lynch me (except maybe a direct scum claim.... In my first ever game of mafia, I claimed to be scum when I was really a town JoaT. That was pretty lolzy.) and I haven't really been doing a whole lot to help myself. I've been thrown multiple bones to get me out of my predicament, but each time I refuse to take it and wind up just putting myself in a worse position. But to be brutally honest, I have absolutely no regrets regarding my play. I think that everything has been working quite excellently thus far.
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
I don't believe hans' claim anyway, but Wheat's volunteered, and I have a scum read on him, so I figure he can do it.
Also I disagree with Wheat's assessment that Jay is town owing to this post. If anything, the recent flavour gaming has put him back on my radar as a scum suspect. Noteworthy that outside of Iso, Jay was also Wheat's only unqualified strong read. The rest had a lot of "town if X" or "scum if Y" plus uncertainty going on (ria was in the town column but the description said it was a gut feeling).
I'm not sure what "Nathed" means, but regarding jay, my thoughts haven't changed. I still think that he is probably the most likely town player. Any reasons that I put after it would have just been stuff that I said before, whereas the reasons that I put about all of those people was based, for the most part, on stuff I hadn't talked about.
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
15-16: Did anyone ever pursue this? I thought Arcadic was seriously asking.
28: KK's bad vote on hansanator, not sure why that reason applies to him. kaburi calls out, +town for him
47: KK is riled up, although I think he actually gets riled up more as town from past experience
53: Void understands Iso's vote on me? Why? Also why does Iso say he is scum in next post?
60: KK deflects from deflection? It seems clear to me that Teia was suggesting he was deflecting from Iso's request to explain his responses to pressure.
62: Not sure why Iso is adding Teia to his scumspects here.
63: Wheat snap votes Teia right after Iso suggests her as scum, then backtracks to being "70% sure." Jumped the gun, buddying to Iso?
77: I looked up janitor but have never seen this role, hans says it was common on his old site but I don't understand anything about how he is suggesting it would work and why we should claim based around a role he has never seen on MTGS. Pushing the softclaim is bad.
85: Iso asks why I didn't unvote - I was surprised that it happened while I was posting, but 2 votes on someone in RVS is fine.
88: ria finally shows up and just talks to the newbie, nothing more to add?
91-93: Dislike this interaction between KK and Wheat: "Your vote is bad" "Yeah but I'm going to keep it here because hans tried to mass claim instead of responding to it" "OK"
95: Why does Jay know Arcadic is "good?"
102: Why is Jay knowing Arcadic is town ok, BV?
105: So Iso is arguing that my scum meta is to be cautious and self-conscious, but thinks that as town I should self-consciously unvote when BV naths my RVS vote? Does not compute.
120: Jay's original comment about responding to his own name looked a bit suspicious, and going back to comment on that by himself is even worse.
122: hans reiterates excuses not to scum hunt
125-126: Wheat is reaching with his vote on Iso. Jay's "townslip" was asking if the scum know each other before the game starts? Also, Teia posting "good observations" is the basis for her being scum?
130: hans's "there are no scumtells, only hard evidence from votes and night actions" is exactly how I felt in my first game...as scum. After playing a few games here, he must know that attitude is not going to fly.
131: kaburi has serious doubts about his towniness, but no vote?
145: Jay and BV are voting Iso because he is playing aggressively, but this is no different from the other games I played with him as town. I agree that his logic for voting me was bad, but I don't think it necessarily means he is scum; his terrible push on Carsten when they were both town in MM6 comes to mind.
149: Still don't think Wheat's logic for voting Iso makes sense; Iso didn't claim that my not responding at first was part of his case from the start, it might have occurred to him later.
159: hans breadcrumbs
160: Agree with much of what Void posted, such as position on Iso vs Wheat, hansanator, and noting ria's post and Iso's response. I don't like that he suggests Teia and KK are not on the same team, and my reads at this point are the reverse of his, Teia feels town so far and KK's strong reactions are towny for him, but his early behavior was hard to explain.
173: Iso's proposed scum team here (hansanator, Wheat, Jay) aligns with my reads for most scummy at this point.
178: Wow, Void should "get some sort of recognition for such a great post?" This would be what we call buddying. What was the point to choosing some random people and saying "one of them is scum?"
185: This is the best point against Wheat so far
189: hans forgetting who he was talking about in his random grouping is very bad, +town ria for pointing this out
205: BV has a case on Iso, except that he caught Wheat as scum, so we'll run with that and if Wheat is actually town we'll go back to Iso? Opportunistic at best
221-2: KK says Iso's case on Wheat sucks, but his reasoning is that "Teia's scum meta is easy to grasp..." KK has had access to that meta, Wheat hasn't. I don't see the reasoning for dismissing that case, but I agree with the points on BV.
251: I didn't even gather that Wheat was saying he might die from hammering. Nothing about hans's post suggested that to me.
269: KK calls him out immediately, but it's a stretch to call "BV should hammer" OMGUS at this point.
298: So confirmation of what you thought Jay's townslip was. I don't think it would be too hard to fake ask that once you figured out what was going on, the "Arcadic is good" post still makes me really question Jay.
Jay: Why did you say Arcadic was "good?"
KK: Wheat seems best for hammer. See below.
Iso: You've recently said Teia was town, but you were the first to call her scummy. Has something changed since then?
Town Iso - Seems consistent with the town games I've seen him play so far, a bad case at the beginning to shake out scumspects, then strong consistent pushes on them. Arcadic - Observant from RVS, consistent push on hans. Void - His first big wall post (160) corresponded pretty closely to my reads at that point. kaburi - Had some minor +town interactions, 131 was the only thing that struck me as not great, but my recollection is that he was reluctant to vote until late in our last game as well. Teia - She's cautious, but her observations have made sense. I don't think Iso realized it at the time, but calling her scum and having Wheat jump on looks like a nice trap now. ria - He's made a couple of decent points, but it seems like he's avoiding getting into the thick of things. I thought he was more involved when he was around in MM6, but I can understand if he is taking a lighter approach given what happened there. KK - This feels like a repeat of MM7 KK, digging into a case too hard and having it bite him. I figured out that he was town (so was I) in that one after seeing some genuine reactions. I'm not convinced of his innocence yet, but he's just on this side of the line for now.
Scummy Jay - Because of the post (95) where he seemed certain Arcadic was "good," still need the reason. BV - I felt his vote for Iso was poor when he had seen Iso perform the same way as town before, and his post 205 seems to admit that the case was bad and abruptly switch to bussing? Wheat_Grinder - RE: claim, maybe he was just reflavoring his scum kill as a vig shot? I don't feel he ever satisfactorily resolved the inconsistency between pushing Teia and not pushing me, when he was following Iso's recommendations without knowing either of our scum metas. hansanator - Failed to contribute, poorly thought out push to mass claim, flavor/setup gaming, unlikely claim, etc.
I think I can keep up with at least a post a day or so now, sorry again. By my count, it looks like everyone who isn't voting is willing to vote for hansanator. I'm ready to move on before the deadline to try to keep town momentum up into Day 2, that's been a problem in mod mafias before.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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Wheat claimed without being in claim range, and he's claiming to be a vig with Pressure.
Then Iso claims to have Thick Fat as an ability. I'm not going to speculate on what he meant or anything, but I'm just noting because it's another unprompted claim. That said, the accusation of Wheat being a roleblocker is oddly specific. Why roleblocker, specifically?
We get hans' claim, and it's a two-shot commuter that's also a bomb. I don't know how Mafia setups normally go, so I can't gauge the plausibility of a commuter bomb, but it seems anti-synergistic enough that I don't believe it.
So yeah, hans needs to get lynched. I don't know what to make of Wheat's claim at the moment, although I'll be interested to see what, if anything, comes of it.
ice
(I already answered this)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What, this?
I thought it was a typo of "Nice." Iso had just gone through his "we've talked about falseclaiming vig" thing, then wheat said "why do you think I'm roleblocker." I thought it was a sarcastic "nice" because their previous conversation was about that. These two clearly have history, so I figured Iso was being his usual flippant self. I didn't get that he actually meant "ice" until:
Seeing that, I get what Iso is saying. I still don't like flavor gaming, and I'm already suspicious of Iso anyway because he's Iso. So this is me also callng him out on it. I'm watching you
sleeproomie.As to your rejection of behavioral analyses in favor of "hacking the game", hansanator, we'll just have to agree to disagree. On day one, we simply don't have enough information to start that sort of analysis, so it becomes obfuscation and wifom, the stock and trade of scum. Later on in the game, when we have some flips and some counterclaims, that's different.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Plus you quote my second post calling you scum, rather than re-drawing attention to the one where I laid out why.
Again, we should have BV hammer.
You think it's suspicious that I don't believe the claim of one of my top scum reads and that I drew a connection between flavor and ability to support my argument?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No, I'm saying I'm suspicious of you in general. I can't trust myself to read you because you're some sort of mafia Jedi who could be working mind hoodoo on me. YOU COULD BE IN MY BRAIN RIGHT NOW.
It's a personal policy of never trusting the most experienced player. Basically, I automatically distrust you and all the nonmods in this game until I see a compelling pattern of townish behavior.
If I didn't want to lynch hans so badly right now I'd be voting wheat. I agree that his claim is dubious.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Mod arcadic and jay13x haven't posted in 2.5 days and could be prodded.
I didn't know that you guys were waiting on me; I just thought you guys were deciding who was the most expendable. If it were up to me, I'd have the people telling others to make the last vote hammer.
(Hint: There are 2-3 people who already know that I'm town, and they will refuse to hammer because it just isn't worth it to trade an already outnumbered mafioso for a single mislynch. These people are potentially already on the wagon, so they may try to egg on others to hammer for them.)
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
You weren't 100% sure on your ability.
@Everyone: Who would be your pick to hammer hans?
I PM'd Meg and received no comment on the subject; however, I reread my role pm and the way that it's worded makes me about 95% sure that my ability will kill whoever is responsible for my death-- be it hammer or night kill.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
wheat. I don't think hans really is a bomb, but if we have to risk blowing someone up wheat's my pick for next most dubious player.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I call bull. Megiddo would tell you how your ability works if you had one.
We've got a live one.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Post 64: Iso wants me to lynch GM with him. I essentially joke it away 65-67.
Post 85: Iso lays down a case on GM.
Post 91: I call out that there's a town reason, and Occam's even points to it.
Post 94: Iso states he thinks I haven't played with GM, while he knows GM's meta. <- IMPORTANT
Post 96-97: I confirm this and say I cannot know either, unless he has public games, and reiterate my reasoning.
Post 99: "Why, Wheat?"
Post 104: I explain why, and say I'm worried about Iso's alignment.
Post 105: "That's the exact opposite reaction that town GM should be having." Also, Iso doesn't give a damn what a think, I'm scum in his eyes.
Post 106: I reiterate (in bold) that I don't know GM's alignment.
Post 108: Iso states it's not just meta, but mindset. He notes the earlier push was lacking.
Post 112: I ask why he didn't use that reasoning earlier.
Post 113: "Because I forgot you didn't know GM's scum meta."
Analysis
I think it's pretty obvious that Iso knew I didn't know GM's scum meta at 106 and after, given that ensuing conversation.
So it has to be between 96 where I confirm I didn't know GM's meta (which Iso suspected I did not in the first place) and 106. That leaves two posts: 99, and 105. 99 is a two word query for reasoning, so it has to be 105. Looking at 105, it would make sense as a response to that.
However, by timestamps, only 15 hours had passed from him seeing me confirm that I didn't know GM's meta, which is what he thought in the first place. So I sort of doubt that anyway, but I'd give it the benefit of the doubt.
That is, I would, if that's what it was in response to.
You see, I asked why he didn't lead with that observation, since it's not meta based and it's stronger than everything else he posted in the absence of meta. He said it was because he forgot that I, specifically me, didn't know GM's meta. I know at least Jay13x is new. So I was not the only one who didn't know that meta.
So, while that response would make sense in one context if you stretch it a little, it does not make sense in the overall context.
Lynch Iso if I'm gone tomorrow, please. I'd vig him if hansanator was lying about his ability (which he probably is) and survived to Night but Iso has Thick Fat anyway so I can't.
No matter your alignment, I agree with this logic.
@KK: I will hammer Hans on the off-chance he's telling the truth.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The question was who you want to hammer him. You've already said you're willing, but do you want to hammer him more than you would like anyone else to?
I don't want the day to end until everyone (including hans) has answered my question. And arcadic and jay13x should weigh in on the discussion that happened in the past few days.
Though I'm pretty sure their absences can be explained by it being the weekend.
Everybody else, good work; keep posting.
I did take my blinders off when I analyzed that. I thought there might have been a way it made sense. But I don't think it does.
I will try to assess the overall state later today.
In that case, Iso, of course. If not him, then Hans himself, if he'll do it. Which I doubt.
Besides that, I'll be looking at the gamestate tonight.
I've been real honest here, but I'll repeat it - this is my first Mafia game, but I've played werewolf, Battlestar Galactica and The Resistance (all similar games) before.
If we are going to flavor game, maybe we should take a look at the fact that a Dark and Ghost type pokemon (both closely associated with bad guys in those games) have both revealed themselves.
I also think it's very convenient that Handsanitizer claims his ability will kill whoever takes him out.
In any case, the Iso/Wheat argument has made me doubtful of my conclusions, and I've suspected Wheat for some time as well, so I'm going to back off Iso for now.
Handsanitizer, on the other hand, can't seem to keep his pokemon in it's ball, and has reignited old suspicions (he was the first one I voted for).
Unvote Iso
Vote Handsanitizer
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
unvote
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't like this question because it's asking everyone who they would like to kill; however, I don't have a problem answering it because I am the martyr at stake.
People who I wouldn't mind hammering me: Teia, KK, Iso, and anyone else who told another person to hammer
People who I do not want to hammer me: Jay, Void, Wheat, and rianalnn
People who I don't care either way: everyone else
If it helps you sleep at night, you can believe whatever you want.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Achievement unlocked: Gigantic Stinking Pile of WIFOM. 30G.
Given that there's probably 3 scum, and he probably didn't list all his buddies there as you say, that doesn't actually help us at all.
I think that's a statement made to look helpful without actually looking helpful at best, and misdirection from the actual scum at worst.
Both ends of the spectrum lie in scum territory.
I think Teia is scum again, no meta this time.
I have a little time before making dinner, I'm going to read over the thread and post end of Day reads.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Jay13x: I'm very certain that Jay is town because of post 69.
Arcadic: Eh. Arcadic always feels weird to me but there's nothing strong either way.
Koolkoal: Definitely Town if hansanator is scum. He was on the case too early otherwise, unless he's the most hardcore busboy of all time.
kaburi and Blackvise are both just kind of there. No read.
Ria is posting very short posts, but the content thereof makes my gut say town due to decent information adding and observations.
Iso's 151 drives home even more how bad his explanation was.
Teia: Probably not scum with Iso but scum if Iso is town for 156.
Does Void make walls as scum? I can't remember. Very slightly leaning town for content but I can't read Void at all.
Town
Jay13x
Koolkoal
Rianalnn
Leaning Town
Void
Neutral
kaburi
BlackVise
Arcadic
Leaning scum
Gerrard's Mom
Teia Rabishu
Scum
Iso
I just explained why it doesn't help.
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{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Where do I fall in this spectrum?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Why?
Scum, of course. I wouldn't hammer you if I didn't think you were scum.
Spoiler alert: I'm not scum.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Seriously, read kaburi's posts. There's no malicious intent to detect.
Teia's less certain but I feel her arguments are in good faith.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Senator Han, who do you think the scum driving your wagon are and why?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This might not be so bad if you had actually talked about your reads or the current game-state, instead of possible WIFOMy futures. +scum for Teia
See you all Friday.
Hmmmmm.... I could just be paranoid, but Teia seems to be the most likely person to be conducting the lynch train. I feel like other people have been jumping aboard because I do appear to be flailing like a scum fish, but it has seemed like Teia has been going after the easy pickings that I made of myself and manipulating my lack of skill at this game to appear pro-town. I think that Teia is leaning scum the most out of anyone.
KK's hopping on and off my wagon a few times makes me see him as more towny. It seems as though he was trying to make sense of my nonsensical playstyle. I didn't like his "pick someone to hammer" question, but it could potentially reap valuable responses.
I wasn't a fan of Wheat's claim, but I've liked his play post-my claim. I'm intrigued that he admitted to being the scummiest player in #259, not including myself of course.
I did not like Arcadic's play early on, but his initial push on me was likely town.
Jay is town.
Iso.... Ultimately Iso has felt more town that scum, but I do believe that the thick fat is a bluff. Perhaps he's mafia or perhaps he just didn't want to be vigged on N1.
I understand that you guys have every reason in the books to lynch me (except maybe a direct scum claim.... In my first ever game of mafia, I claimed to be scum when I was really a town JoaT. That was pretty lolzy.) and I haven't really been doing a whole lot to help myself. I've been thrown multiple bones to get me out of my predicament, but each time I refuse to take it and wind up just putting myself in a worse position. But to be brutally honest, I have absolutely no regrets regarding my play. I think that everything has been working quite excellently thus far.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Also I disagree with Wheat's assessment that Jay is town owing to this post. If anything, the recent flavour gaming has put him back on my radar as a scum suspect. Noteworthy that outside of Iso, Jay was also Wheat's only unqualified strong read. The rest had a lot of "town if X" or "scum if Y" plus uncertainty going on (ria was in the town column but the description said it was a gut feeling).
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
28: KK's bad vote on hansanator, not sure why that reason applies to him. kaburi calls out, +town for him
47: KK is riled up, although I think he actually gets riled up more as town from past experience
53: Void understands Iso's vote on me? Why? Also why does Iso say he is scum in next post?
60: KK deflects from deflection? It seems clear to me that Teia was suggesting he was deflecting from Iso's request to explain his responses to pressure.
62: Not sure why Iso is adding Teia to his scumspects here.
63: Wheat snap votes Teia right after Iso suggests her as scum, then backtracks to being "70% sure." Jumped the gun, buddying to Iso?
77: I looked up janitor but have never seen this role, hans says it was common on his old site but I don't understand anything about how he is suggesting it would work and why we should claim based around a role he has never seen on MTGS. Pushing the softclaim is bad.
85: Iso asks why I didn't unvote - I was surprised that it happened while I was posting, but 2 votes on someone in RVS is fine.
88: ria finally shows up and just talks to the newbie, nothing more to add?
91-93: Dislike this interaction between KK and Wheat: "Your vote is bad" "Yeah but I'm going to keep it here because hans tried to mass claim instead of responding to it" "OK"
95: Why does Jay know Arcadic is "good?"
102: Why is Jay knowing Arcadic is town ok, BV?
105: So Iso is arguing that my scum meta is to be cautious and self-conscious, but thinks that as town I should self-consciously unvote when BV naths my RVS vote? Does not compute.
120: Jay's original comment about responding to his own name looked a bit suspicious, and going back to comment on that by himself is even worse.
122: hans reiterates excuses not to scum hunt
125-126: Wheat is reaching with his vote on Iso. Jay's "townslip" was asking if the scum know each other before the game starts? Also, Teia posting "good observations" is the basis for her being scum?
130: hans's "there are no scumtells, only hard evidence from votes and night actions" is exactly how I felt in my first game...as scum. After playing a few games here, he must know that attitude is not going to fly.
131: kaburi has serious doubts about his towniness, but no vote?
145: Jay and BV are voting Iso because he is playing aggressively, but this is no different from the other games I played with him as town. I agree that his logic for voting me was bad, but I don't think it necessarily means he is scum; his terrible push on Carsten when they were both town in MM6 comes to mind.
149: Still don't think Wheat's logic for voting Iso makes sense; Iso didn't claim that my not responding at first was part of his case from the start, it might have occurred to him later.
159: hans breadcrumbs
160: Agree with much of what Void posted, such as position on Iso vs Wheat, hansanator, and noting ria's post and Iso's response. I don't like that he suggests Teia and KK are not on the same team, and my reads at this point are the reverse of his, Teia feels town so far and KK's strong reactions are towny for him, but his early behavior was hard to explain.
173: Iso's proposed scum team here (hansanator, Wheat, Jay) aligns with my reads for most scummy at this point.
178: Wow, Void should "get some sort of recognition for such a great post?" This would be what we call buddying. What was the point to choosing some random people and saying "one of them is scum?"
185: This is the best point against Wheat so far
189: hans forgetting who he was talking about in his random grouping is very bad, +town ria for pointing this out
205: BV has a case on Iso, except that he caught Wheat as scum, so we'll run with that and if Wheat is actually town we'll go back to Iso? Opportunistic at best
221-2: KK says Iso's case on Wheat sucks, but his reasoning is that "Teia's scum meta is easy to grasp..." KK has had access to that meta, Wheat hasn't. I don't see the reasoning for dismissing that case, but I agree with the points on BV.
251: I didn't even gather that Wheat was saying he might die from hammering. Nothing about hans's post suggested that to me.
269: KK calls him out immediately, but it's a stretch to call "BV should hammer" OMGUS at this point.
298: So confirmation of what you thought Jay's townslip was. I don't think it would be too hard to fake ask that once you figured out what was going on, the "Arcadic is good" post still makes me really question Jay.
KK: Wheat seems best for hammer. See below.
Iso: You've recently said Teia was town, but you were the first to call her scummy. Has something changed since then?
Town
Iso - Seems consistent with the town games I've seen him play so far, a bad case at the beginning to shake out scumspects, then strong consistent pushes on them.
Arcadic - Observant from RVS, consistent push on hans.
Void - His first big wall post (160) corresponded pretty closely to my reads at that point.
kaburi - Had some minor +town interactions, 131 was the only thing that struck me as not great, but my recollection is that he was reluctant to vote until late in our last game as well.
Teia - She's cautious, but her observations have made sense. I don't think Iso realized it at the time, but calling her scum and having Wheat jump on looks like a nice trap now.
ria - He's made a couple of decent points, but it seems like he's avoiding getting into the thick of things. I thought he was more involved when he was around in MM6, but I can understand if he is taking a lighter approach given what happened there.
KK - This feels like a repeat of MM7 KK, digging into a case too hard and having it bite him. I figured out that he was town (so was I) in that one after seeing some genuine reactions. I'm not convinced of his innocence yet, but he's just on this side of the line for now.
Scummy
Jay - Because of the post (95) where he seemed certain Arcadic was "good," still need the reason.
BV - I felt his vote for Iso was poor when he had seen Iso perform the same way as town before, and his post 205 seems to admit that the case was bad and abruptly switch to bussing?
Wheat_Grinder - RE: claim, maybe he was just reflavoring his scum kill as a vig shot? I don't feel he ever satisfactorily resolved the inconsistency between pushing Teia and not pushing me, when he was following Iso's recommendations without knowing either of our scum metas.
hansanator - Failed to contribute, poorly thought out push to mass claim, flavor/setup gaming, unlikely claim, etc.
I think I can keep up with at least a post a day or so now, sorry again. By my count, it looks like everyone who isn't voting is willing to vote for hansanator. I'm ready to move on before the deadline to try to keep town momentum up into Day 2, that's been a problem in mod mafias before.
Also, good post.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player