4) You asked the question, so I was trying to insert some playful banter, given that the answer was directed at you. Would it have read differently to you if I had removed most of the commentary from the T/S changes part and just said it after instead of where it was when I was thinking about it?
I'm not sure I follow your question here. I would want to see reasoning in your T/S list, either with your reads (as you did) or after.
I assume I would have the same reaction to your trying to appease me (by talking about things being a consolation to me) no matter where it appeared in your post.
And yes Archae, this indeed counted as an oafish stunt.
I don't see the point in town behaving this way, unless you are guaranteed to catch scum 100%. Which I doubt is the case.
Can you explain why you would purposefully play oafishly when such play attracts the warranted suspicion of both scum and townies alike? All I see you doing is hurting the town's chances with your play.
Too many people not playing this game. Myself included, and for that, I'm sorry (BUT MY LATE GAME IS BETTER THAN MY EARLY ANYWAY SO TIS COOL).
@Cantrip: have you finally finished your reread? If yes, dat T/S list?
@Kank: No, Rodemy's noob card hasn't expired. If my memory serves this is his second game of Mafia, he's behaving pretty much like he did in BSG and your vote on him is terrible.
Vote Kankennon
He comes back on the 14th, still with no content.
He complains about no one playing, and includes himself..
Asks Cantrip to do a T/S. Not even an actual question with it.
Defends Rodemy.
Does a hit and run on Kank without explaining any reasoning whatsoever.
@Duplicity: Why were you so agressive and eager to end the Day? Why weren't you interested in Cantrip's opinion back there?
The day was ending anyways? What are you hoping to gain from these questions?
714, 719, etc make me feel like Cantripmancer is very likely town. While scum can definitely generate lots of content, his questions and logic seem genuinely town-motivated.
Duplicity, I'd love to see your responses to Cantrip's questions in 714.
He complains about no one playing, and includes himself..
Asks Cantrip to do a T/S. Not even an actual question with it.
Defends Rodemy.
Does a hit and run on Kank without explaining any reasoning whatsoever.
Reading is tech huh
1-) Asking Cantrip for a T/S list is the same as asking for his opinions on 9 players
2-) My vote on Kank is explained by my defense of Rodemy. Rodemy's behavior, IMO, is exactly like his one in BSG. This is his second game and unless I'm HUGELY underestimating him, he isn't skilled enough in Mafia to consciously delve into his own town meta as scum. I've stated this more than once ITT.
Kank disregards it. I read it as scum going for the low-hanging fruit. I vote him. He doesn't even acknowledge my vote nor claims when brought to L-2. My vote stays.
Kank’s translation of Kank’s erratic play: (I’m skipping my posts that aren’t part of my oafish stunt) 351: Cannonball! Let’s see what waves I can make in this game… 356: After a quick skim read, I’ve pulled out TMCT and Sir Karn as my two early suspects. My dropping of TMCT comes later upon a full re-read of him, as mentioned in a later post. 359: I say some stupid things to see who chastises me over them. Trying to get a read on Duplicity. 375: I post the few notes I took on TMCT. 376: Crazy plan brewing. Foreshadowing. 379: More foreshadowing. (Middle line) 383: Trying to code Archae into my pending behavior by furtively seeing if he remembers how I acted in #69 and he completely missed it. 387: Come on man! I made the perfect hidden-meaning double-entendre! Do you really not remember how I was in HTTYD? 390: Huge cookie to Raptor for making the (albeit late) connection to this one! 394: Darn you Archae for making me spell it out to you! How come you don’t know me as well as I know me? :B Slight clue here to #2 of Duplicity’s dialogue: I was in the beginning process of actually making myself a good choice for a lynch. Why? Because I wanted to! No, not just to be a dick and be detrimental to town, but to play the reaction game and see what a little fishing would turn up…with me as the bait! 507: After reading more of the game I realized I was misguided on my limited assessment of TMCT. 519: You can tell upon my reread where I changed my mind on TMCT for the most part. (Once I feel someone is bad, I have a tough time completely trusting them after they leave my crosshairs.) 520: Want some clues of what type of behavior you can expect from me? Day 2 of Basic #69 baby. I’ll refer people back to my atrocious play in this game at some point in the future, for sure! 571: Duplicity, it is so on now!!! 573: More clues and insight to my plans. Continuously feeling better about TMCT at this point despite not taking him off my scum section of my T/S list. 575: Yep, in a matter of 12 minutes from when TMCT asked me about my notes, I stopped time and whipped out more than two hours’ worth of townie-looking notes, then took a photo of them and made the post, attaching the pic to the post. I am just that skilled! [/sarcasm] 577: Uh, you’re smack dab right in the middle of it TMCT!!! Good chance I was smirking while posting that, figuring nobody would catch my sarcasm! 601: It’s 3AM and Kank’s going to amuse himself now. 661: Little did I know that my innocuous move of Rodemy on my list would strike Duplicity gold, who I’d already been suspecting as defending Sir Karn a little too suspiciously. Would a town Sir Karn be so trusting of newcomer Duplicity’s behavior? I think not! I left Duplicity on this list much higher than I actually felt he deserved to see what more I could get out of him and his chainsaw defense tactics. 663: Give me more Dup, more! 672: Getting some good results on Dup! 674: More Rodemy bait for Duplicity. 678: Could tell that Sir Karn (677) wasn’t really on to what I was doing—adding more tiny morsels to the Rodemy bait. (At this point I really didn’t feel like Rodemy was scum, I was just so intrigued as to why Duplicity was being so defensive of him.) 688: Denying a future push on Rodemy, yet so hoping that there would be an opportunity to do so and see how Dup would react. Duplicity’s last post (#698) really clued me in… 699: Wake up town! TMCT was not chosen at random by the scum team. TMCT’s top scum reads were Void, (me), and Kosakosa before he died. Sir Karn is scum. Killing TMCT also helped point out that Kank’s early scum-assessment of TMCT was wrong and therefore, Kank’s scum read of Sir Karn must be too. Sorry Charlie! Duplicity’s ridiculous last line of TMCT’s NK being even more of a reason to lynch me solidly put Duplicity as scum to me. Sir Karn happily added himself to my fresh wagon in the following post. 704: Putting together my Day 2 plan, but I needed town to play too. 706: Since Sir Karn was the only one playing, I felt like appearing defeatist and doubtful of my reads, wondering when the rest of the town would start playing again. I had Sir Karn and Duplicity solid as scum, but I wanted to know who was number three! 735: I really did find Archae’s sentence as odd, but he did a great job of clearing it up for me later. Time to see if I can get Duplicity back out of hiding with my wishy-washy addition of Rodemy to my scum team list! 750: I’d written off Archae and Cantrip as town by this point, so it was time to see what I could get with outright voting for Rodemy, even though I was far more convinced that Sir Karn and Duplicity were just using him, but you never know. I’d also figured if anything would bring Duplicity out of hiding, it would be me voting for Rodemy. 761: Getting frustrated that Duplicity still wasn't coming to the party. Hoping that I could lure scum #3 out of hiding and into the open. 769: Starting to wonder about Cantrip again. Kosakosa pretty lurky. Side note: When the scum team doesn’t play, that’s when the town jump at shadows and the scum use that to their advantage when they can. 772: Half-heartedly defending my suspicions of Rodemy to someone I’m thinking is town. 785 (784): Oooh, a good meaty post from Cythare that looks very, very promising! No time to follow-up unfortunately. 789: Claim bait. 791: Claim bait was unnecessary because Cythare just gave himself away (790).
Take a look at his assessments of Sir Karn and Duplicity. Catch some of the wording used with other players: everyone else is “moved here, stays here” while Sir Karn and Duplicity have completely different types of assessments. Sir Karn’s is based on “how I will flip” and if I flip town, Karn will need a re-read. I said something very, very similar to this as scum in #70. Very vague read on Duplicity, but completely different from the other two players in his “Leaning scum” category, if you’ll notice. Earlier in the game, mentioned that Rancid Raptor would be confirmed as town once double voter ability was proven, and even said so (go back and read Cythare’s 411, that T/S list is also full of yummy goodness), and notice that now Cythare will be truly convinced once RR hammers (me).
I have the scum team for you all people.
Go read them all and their assessments-of/play-with each other if you don’t believe me.
If you need me to die first to know I’m legit, I am totally fine with that.
Why don't you? I see no scum motivation. Although where is he?
I don't see how you can't see SOME suspicion on him. He's painting me town waaaay too hard.
Also, the suspicion on me is legit. I absentmindedly didn't take into account kank and Dup could be scum buddies. Like i posted that and went to bed, and thought about it later that night and went, FUUUUUCK. But hindsight is always 20/20
Cantrip seems super towny to me. Go you
I think the TMCT kill was odd because he was really only after Archae (from what i read of the vote counts that was his vote for the majority of his game)
No need to hide it anymore. I got from Cythare exactly what I wanted.
Kank is Marilyn Chambers, Vanilla Town.
I'm still working right now, but if the day hasn't ended by tonight, or is still twilight, I'll explain what I did and why.
And yes Archae, this indeed counted as an oafish stunt.
If the rush to judgment is too quick for my reveal, I recommend this order:
Sir Karn, Cythare, Duplicity
So your first claim was dumb by saying just Town.. like you had something important to hide... but then a few posts later you go full claim? and it's vanilla town? Because you got something from cy?
Look alive people!
I was the only one that seriously doubted TMCT's behavior and look who they picked to kill off!
It's obvious that they see me as the easiest mislynch target toDay.
Duplicity is either playing right into their hands or is actually scum himself.
Doubted it how?
From a reread of the end of last night to today, your defense against Dup is odd for two reasons:
One: You had your vote on TMCT the entire day...yet you blame Dups suspicion on you on the Mafia... to paraphrase you "Either he is scum or or dumb town!"
In fact, you were set on TMCT being scum the entire day. So when the mafia killed TMCT, your first instinct is to think they framed you.
Two: Look alive people? The day had just started and Dups case was... well constructed.
This interaction between Dup and Kank make it REALLY hard for me to see Scum and Scum. That's why i didn't think about it! AHA! I knew it was there somewhere.
I kind of see Dup Forcing the wagon on kank to start and using the kill for the night as cannonfodder... which to me sounds premeditated
So as much as i want Kank to be scum, i can't see it right now. But dups first post seems very premeditated
So i really don't know what to think about those two. I know kank is Suspicious as balls on a lady right now, but Dup isn't really on my town list either... but If they were both scum, these two posts would NOT make sense.. (i.e dups case on kank and kanks response.)
Kank wouldn't call out Dup as scum just to have Kank call him out as scum, what would that gather? kank flips scum, Dup is still suspicious for pointing it out his first post of the day... and if Kank flips town.... Dups first sentences would possibly clear him down the road.....
Us: Hey dup, why did you start a wagon on kank. HE FLIPPED TOWN!
Dup: Oh well you see, my gut... and as i told you, i doubted my reads.
He starts off by saying that he doesn't trust his reads too well... and then says the one read he DOES trust... on Kank...
UGH I AM THINKING WAY TOO HARD AND I NEED TO GO TO WORK >:[
Dup and Kank are waaay to suspicious in my book right now.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kank was a Nuet... but Dup... i am not sure anymore.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
(I’m skipping my posts that aren’t part of my oafish stunt)
So, basically tl;dr: you're saying that you were trying to see who would jump on you for acting odd, then acting suspicious, then actively calling for your own lynch? How could you see this as a way to find scum?
Quote from Kank »
379: More foreshadowing. (Middle line)
I'm sorry, I thought you said that line referred to your 69 and 70 games...but then again, you didn't respond to my latest question on that line.
Quote from Kank »
575: Yep, in a matter of 12 minutes from when TMCT asked me about my notes, I stopped time and whipped out more than two hours’ worth of townie-looking notes, then took a photo of them and made the post, attaching the pic to the post. I am just that skilled! [/sarcasm]
This is the second time you've included the bolded adjective, as though you need to reinforce that they're town notes over scum notes. Scum take notes, too, and I didn't see anything in those notes that screamed "town-taken" over "scum-taken".
Quote from Kank »
769: Starting to wonder about Cantrip again.
Really? You didn't mention that or even hint at it, just "I'll address your questions, Cantrip."
Quote from Kank »
772: Half-heartedly defending my suspicions of Rodemy to someone I’m thinking is town.
Wait...three posts ago you were starting to wonder about me (again), but now you're thinking I'm town?
Quote from Kank »
I have the scum team for you all people.
Go read them all and their assessments-of/play-with each other if you don’t believe me.
If you need me to die first to know I’m legit, I am totally fine with that.
Um, here's the problem with that logic: if you're town,
You have imperfect information, therefore you don't know who's town and who's scum.
And, no offense, but oafish stunts that get you lynched don't exactly inspire others to follow your lead.
Kank's ceased answering questions; he's just masterbating with WIFOM. Still, it'd be nice for Duplicity to get back in here and post, so I'm fine with waiting until we get a little closer to the deadline for RR to hammer.
As an out-of-game aside, I'm now looking for TWO replacements in my game, Dr. Polyopticon's Transcendental Orchestra (on Day 2), and feeling a bit desperate. If anyone's interested, please PM me!!
4) You asked the question, so I was trying to insert some playful banter, given that the answer was directed at you. Would it have read differently to you if I had removed most of the commentary from the T/S changes part and just said it after instead of where it was when I was thinking about it?
I'm not sure I follow your question here. I would want to see reasoning in your T/S list, either with your reads (as you did) or after.
I assume I would have the same reaction to your trying to appease me (by talking about things being a consolation to me) no matter where it appeared in your post.
That answered my question. Like I said previously, you asked, so I tried to engage you in some irrelevant banter, which in retrospect looks bad in the context of the T/S list. Live and learn (and then get Luvs).
@Karn, Kk, And Rodemy (Why don't you have a K name?) and Cythare.
So supposing the Kank wagon doesn't take off, who would you like to see lynched instead if someone had to be lynched now
Doesn't take off? He's at L-2 (+2 fake votes - swishh and myself). Also, as shown in my T/S list, I don't have anyone else that I'm sold on as scum. Of my "leaning scum" pile, I'd choose Duplicity, though. I would want to see more from Kosakosa first, and I haven't taken the time to reevaluate Archae.
@Duplicity: Why were you so agressive and eager to end the Day? Why weren't you interested in Cantrip's opinion back there?
The day was ending anyways? What are you hoping to gain from these questions?
714, 719, etc make me feel like Cantripmancer is very likely town. While scum can definitely generate lots of content, his questions and logic seem genuinely town-motivated.
Duplicity, I'd love to see your responses to Cantrip's questions in 714.
Is your name Duplicity?
If your questions looked legitimate instead of like busywork, I'd have left them alone.
Leaning scum:
Kosakosa - Kosa stays here until he posts more.
So the moment I start posting more, I'm suddenly not leaning scum anymore?
You're still leaning scum, if you can't tell from my T/S list. When you start posting more, I'll be able to start getting a better read on you. Maybe you'll move up, maybe you'll move down. I don't know, because I haven't gotten that strong of a read on you yet.
It feels like he's coasting, which he has done before as town,
In which games have I coasted? How and why is my behavior here any different from said games in which I posted with less frequency?
I was specifically referring to a game where you were confirmed town, and by hearsay, understand that you were less constructive because you equated being confirmed town to having less imperfect information than everyone else. I'd look for it, but you don't have your completed games collected anywhere and I'm lazy.
Also, I wanted to see how you'd react, since I don't recall you being this low-activity in Town games I've played with you (although maybe that's in part due to your new job, this was the case prior to your announcement as well).
but I haven't liked what I've seen, so he's coasting as leaning scum to me.
What was it that didn't you like? Be specific.
Besides the busywork questions to Duplicity, complaining about others not participating when they've at least provided content with their posts, and saying "it's okay my late game is better anyways"? Nothing.
-------------------------------
@Kank
Want to be specific about what in #784 looks "very, very promising"?
And that language tell is reaching at best. I also don't say anything about you moving up/down! Does that make you my 4th scumbuddy? :devil:
Sir Karn's entry is different from others because as far as I'm concerned, he's tied to you. Duplicity's is different because I cut/pasted from last time and moved things around. The reasons he's in leaning scum are different from others' and it was more relevant to highlight them again. I'd be happy to be less vague if others want clarification/forgot why I said basically the same thing in my previous T/S list.
Re: Rancid Raptor - If you'd followed Cantripmancer's posts (and my own follow-up), you'd understand why I changed my stance slightly on his double-voter ability. I still consider him the closest to confirmed town, but if there's a way to 100% confirm it, hammering someone from L-2 is it. Also, the fact that you highlight yourself in parentheses when explaining this looks horrible. I don't care that you're the lynch today as far as RR's actions are concerned. After the discussion that Cantrip started, I'd hope he would confirm it regardless of who's on the chopping block. The fact that the person on the chopping block is you and that I think you are really scummy are incidental. Are you really equating wanting this confirmation to being scummy?
Also, even if you do somehow flip town, that doesn't equate to having perfect information. Cantrip already pointed this out.
---------------------------
@Rodemy
When did you start suspecting Duplicity, and how strong of a scum read do you have on him? You mentioned his fervor to paint you as town once before when someone else mentioned it, but I don't remember you suspecting him at all until someone else did.
Also, you have both a town and scum read on Kank? Are you saying you'd rather pursue Duplicity because you think it'll clear Kank if he's scum (do you think they are linked), or are you just being paranoid?
[font='Georgia'][color='DarkGoldenrod']If your questions looked legitimate instead of like busywork, I'd have left them alone.
No, it doesn't work like that. I don't care what you think about my questions directed at another player, you shouldn't answer them.
...Actually, why did you answer my questions for Duplicity (and implicitly defended him) if you have him as leaning scum?
Because I also have you leaning scum. Also, I didn't actually answer your questions. I questioned the validity of your questions. Did you read my questions or just see that there was text there?[/color][/font]
So...my angst at players who go awol and have to be replaced is at an all-time high right now, so just to put this thought out there:
Seppel prodded Dup yesterday. Rules say Dup has 48 hours to respond or he will be replaced. If replacement is needed, given both the lack of respondents for Void and what seems like a lot of replacements in other games being needed, there's a fair chance that Duplicity could end up modkilled. If Seppel again provides ~72 hours for a replacement to be found, we're looking at the 20th before that happens.
I would rather proceed with the actual wagon (Kank) than have Duplicity modkilled, so if Duplicity doesn't respond to the prod (and Seppel announces that he's seeking a replacement), I recommend we move ahead with lynching Kank (via RR double-vote) rather than hoping that a replacement is found and somehow gets caught up before the deadline. Objections?
So...my angst at players who go awol and have to be replaced is at an all-time high right now, so just to put this thought out there:
Seppel prodded Dup yesterday. Rules say Dup has 48 hours to respond or he will be replaced. If replacement is needed, given both the lack of respondents for Void and what seems like a lot of replacements in other games being needed, there's a fair chance that Duplicity could end up modkilled. If Seppel again provides ~72 hours for a replacement to be found, we're looking at the 20th before that happens.
I would rather proceed with the actual wagon (Kank) than have Duplicity modkilled, so if Duplicity doesn't respond to the prod (and Seppel announces that he's seeking a replacement), I recommend we move ahead with lynching Kank (via RR double-vote) rather than hoping that a replacement is found and somehow gets caught up before the deadline. Objections?
Because I also have you leaning scum. Also, I didn't actually answer your questions. I questioned the validity of your questions. Did you read my questions or just see that there was text there?[/color][/font]
Yes you answered the first one. Duplicity could simply copypaste it and presto: the whole point of analyzing his behavior based on his answer is gone.
I didn't like his eagerness to go through the Void lynch no matter what, including not waiting for Cantrip to post his opinions before Void's flip. People that don't want/need other players' insights to solve the game are generally the ones that already have the game solved aka scum, and that rings a major bell in my head.
Why did you feel like stating your Cantrip's opinion to me when I haven't asked you that, then following up with a question for Duplicity?
So...my angst at players who go awol and have to be replaced is at an all-time high right now, so just to put this thought out there:
Seppel prodded Dup yesterday. Rules say Dup has 48 hours to respond or he will be replaced. If replacement is needed, given both the lack of respondents for Void and what seems like a lot of replacements in other games being needed, there's a fair chance that Duplicity could end up modkilled. If Seppel again provides ~72 hours for a replacement to be found, we're looking at the 20th before that happens.
I would rather proceed with the actual wagon (Kank) than have Duplicity modkilled, so if Duplicity doesn't respond to the prod (and Seppel announces that he's seeking a replacement), I recommend we move ahead with lynching Kank (via RR double-vote) rather than hoping that a replacement is found and somehow gets caught up before the deadline. Objections?
What if Duplicity's slot has a Night action to perform?
Because I also have you leaning scum. Also, I didn't actually answer your questions. I questioned the validity of your questions. Did you read my questions or just see that there was text there?[/color][/font]
Yes you answered the first one. Duplicity could simply copypaste it and presto: the whole point of analyzing his behavior based on his answer is gone.
I didn't like his eagerness to go through the Void lynch no matter what, including not waiting for Cantrip to post his opinions before Void's flip. People that don't want/need other players' insights to solve the game are generally the ones that already have the game solved aka scum, and that rings a major bell in my head.
Why did you feel like stating your Cantrip's opinion to me when I haven't asked you that, then following up with a question for Duplicity?
I guess? In that case, I'm sorry for that, even though I stand by questioning your questions.
The statement about Cantrip and wanting to hear Duplicity's responses to Cantrip's questions was actually unrelated. I just forgot to put a line between the two parts of that post.[/color][/font]
So...my angst at players who go awol and have to be replaced is at an all-time high right now, so just to put this thought out there:
Seppel prodded Dup yesterday. Rules say Dup has 48 hours to respond or he will be replaced. If replacement is needed, given both the lack of respondents for Void and what seems like a lot of replacements in other games being needed, there's a fair chance that Duplicity could end up modkilled. If Seppel again provides ~72 hours for a replacement to be found, we're looking at the 20th before that happens.
I would rather proceed with the actual wagon (Kank) than have Duplicity modkilled, so if Duplicity doesn't respond to the prod (and Seppel announces that he's seeking a replacement), I recommend we move ahead with lynching Kank (via RR double-vote) rather than hoping that a replacement is found and somehow gets caught up before the deadline. Objections?
While Kosakosa makes a fair point about Duplicity having Night actions to perform, I think this is fair. I have no interest in dragging this game on for a second Day in a row to wait for a replacement, and there's two reasons:
1) I'd rather lynch someone I'm certain is scum than have someone I'm fairly certain is scum get modkilled due to inactivity.
2) This gives a potential replacement some time to replace in at a timing/pace that is more fair to the rest of us that are participating.
@Kosa: What is your most up-to-date read on Duplicity? If you think he's scummy, does it matter if he has a night action (such as the Nightkill) to perform?
We could also lynch Duplicity... hes not the towniest by far.
1.He back pats himself as the most towniest deserving of the Doc's protection
2.Town hunts rather then scum hunts
3.Tells the doctor what to do(In the games i've been in and read, seems only scum does this.)
4. Obesessive and pointless protecting of Rodemy.
5.Promises re-reads and new T/s list then disappears.
6. Replaces someone who was just /barning what people said and providing no content themsevles.
7. Outright attacked void to the point of void rage quitting. And to me seemed a blatently obvious town tell. Void is too experienced to rage quit a game as scum IMO
8. With one flip decides all his reads, except one, are wrong.
I personaly feel Duplicity is scum. Kank is about third or so on the list of possibilities and I'm only willing to lynch him because of that plus he'd be dead anyway with the vote count on him.
@Kosa: What is your most up-to-date read on Duplicity? If you think he's scummy, does it matter if he has a night action (such as the Nightkill) to perform?[/color][/font]
My most up-to-date read on him is the one I stated in my last post. Although I liked his early game (I remember adding a "towniest townie of the town" comment on Scumdar on his catchup-T/S list post), his eagerness to end the Day while disregarding Cantrip's opinions felt very scummy.
It won't matter if he's AWOL scum. Mafia always choose their actions collectively, so another mafioso could use Duplicity to perform the NK. If he's an AWOL town PR, however, that's a problem.
Regardless of his scumminess, lynching him while he's AWOL is dumb. We gain nothing from analyzing his wagon, we gain nothing from his answers and interactions while being questioned, we don't get even get his claim. What if he's the cop or doc?
If he gets modkilled, **** happens. But lynching him in our current situation is like the worst idea ever.
I'm keeping my vote on Rodemy. At least I'm pretty sure that's where it is. And I strongly urge town not to lynch Duplicity toDay.
Unvote
Vote: Rodemy
I agree with you here. While I have Duplicity leaning scum, I see no added benefit from lynching him toDay. Lynching more sure scum (Kankennon) who's been actively interacting with everyone over (IMO) less sure scum (Duplicity) who has not been interacting with anyone is only going to help shed more light on who the other scum are. Lynching Duplicity now is doing us all a disservice. We can pursue Duplicity or his potential replacement Tomorrow with additional information and hopefully someone who will respond to a line of questioning.
You guys can be mad at me at end of game if I'm wrong.
If you need me to die to know that I'm not pulling a scum gambit after obviously playing stupid and scummy to get reactions, that's perfectly fine with me.
Now, on the chance that I'm right, even though my methods are less than popular (which I totally get), please go back and read the game with fresh eyes and take a look at how three players act and interact throughout this game:
Sir Karn, Cythare, Duplicity
I can give more specifics once I have more time later tonight (my late at night means very very late) and answer any questions that I don't have time to right now.
I'm keeping my vote on Rodemy. At least I'm pretty sure that's where it is. And I strongly urge town not to lynch Duplicity toDay.
Unvote Vote: Rodemy
Should I take this as you believing that Kank is town? And no, we definitely should not lynch Duplicity today. No reactions, no responses, no reads: no way.
You guys can be mad at me at end of game if I'm wrong.
I'll still be mad even if you're right; vanilla town shouldn't be dragging the lynch down upon themselves.
Quote from Kank »
Now, on the chance that I'm right, even though my methods are less than popular (which I totally get), please go back and read the game with fresh eyes and take a look at how three players act and interact throughout this game:
Sir Karn, Cythare, Duplicity
If you're town, I sorta hope you're wrong, because playing the game this way shouldn't be rewarded, imho. Unless, I guess, you're trying to establish this kind of meta for yourself...but I suspect you're going to be dragged through a lot of frustration before you get to a point where it becomes beneficial.
I have an answer to your first question, Cantripmancer, but don't want Kosakosa to jump on me for answering someone else's question. I will hint that it's pretty recent in the thread, though.
I'm not sure how I feel about the arguments agianst it, but I can see the reasoning and rationale for it. So how long till Duplicity is in prod range again?
That answered my question. Like I said previously, you asked, so I tried to engage you in some irrelevant banter, which in retrospect looks bad in the context of the T/S list. Live and learn (and then get Luvs).
My point was that the 'playful banter' you used (which I would not categorize as such) looks bad out of the T/S context as well. It looks scummy either place.
Doesn't take off? He's at L-2 (+2 fake votes - swishh and myself). Also, as shown in my T/S list, I don't have anyone else that I'm sold on as scum. Of my "leaning scum" pile, I'd choose Duplicity, though. I would want to see more from Kosakosa first, and I haven't taken the time to reevaluate Archae.
I want to ask about your opinion of Duplicity. You don't agree with his town-tells or the extent to which s/he applies them. Do you think that hunting for town rather than scum is scummy? Can you explain how you think that Duplicity's actions are not in the best interest of the town?
...Actually, why did you answer my questions for Duplicity (and implicitly defended him) if you have him as leaning scum?
Because I also have you leaning scum. Also, I didn't actually answer your questions. I questioned the validity of your questions. Did you read my questions or just see that there was text there?
Are you implying that you would only question the validity of the questions of players whom you have leaning scum? If not, what is the purpose of this first sentence? It reads as if you're trying to throw multiple reasons out there to see which will stick.
If you need me to die to know that I'm not pulling a scum gambit after obviously playing stupid and scummy to get reactions, that's perfectly fine with me.
Can you guarantee 100% that your gambit will catch scum, and is the only way to do so? If not, how are you not just sacrificing yourself and allowing scum and townies to lynch you for justifiable reasons?
I'm not sure how I feel about the arguments agianst it, but I can see the reasoning and rationale for it. So how long till Duplicity is in prod range again?
What is this a reference to? (Arguments against what?)
@Everyone: I plan on reading Kankennon's scum game, but I starting to see Kankennon as town. I am against his/her lynch. The level to which Kankennon seems to believe in his/her own gambit reads as authentic to me.
When did you start suspecting Duplicity, and how strong of a scum read do you have on him? You mentioned his fervor to paint you as town once before when someone else mentioned it, but I don't remember you suspecting him at all until someone else did.
Also, you have both a town and scum read on Kank? Are you saying you'd rather pursue Duplicity because you think it'll clear Kank if he's scum (do you think they are linked), or are you just being paranoid?
i really don't know what to think anymore. I pretty much dig a hole every time i post something..
I don;t know how to read people at all. I see Dup's post after d2 started as premeditated.. Using the nightkill to callout Kank is weird in my book.
As for kank.. He is ACTING scummy, but i have no fuggin clue if he is actually scum. this game is really hard to follow for me. I got a bunch to read and A lot to take in and a lot that i don't understand. but i am trying to add my two cents in when i can and it is.. stupid really.
It's hard to tell with those two.
Dup's case on Kank makes him scummy to me.
Kanks stupid claim ploy is scummy to me.
and the people voting me are just pissing me off even more.
But the interaction between Kank and Dup seems.. off. and with dup not posting it's hard to make a real assessment....
So lets lynch Kank. And just end the day. let tomorrow give us more clues.
I just pray to god the scum kill me before you guys do, because that seems like where the wagon is going and i don't like it.
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That answered my question. Like I said previously, you asked, so I tried to engage you in some irrelevant banter, which in retrospect looks bad in the context of the T/S list. Live and learn (and then get Luvs).
My point was that the 'playful banter' you used (which I would not categorize as such) looks bad out of the T/S context as well. It looks scummy either place.
Well, that's part of what I do, so I can't help you then.
Doesn't take off? He's at L-2 (+2 fake votes - swishh and myself). Also, as shown in my T/S list, I don't have anyone else that I'm sold on as scum. Of my "leaning scum" pile, I'd choose Duplicity, though. I would want to see more from Kosakosa first, and I haven't taken the time to reevaluate Archae.
I want to ask about your opinion of Duplicity. You don't agree with his town-tells or the extent to which s/he applies them. Do you think that hunting for town rather than scum is scummy? Can you explain how you think that Duplicity's actions are not in the best interest of the town?
While I don't have a ton of relevant experience in this respect, I do think that townhunting is scummy. I feel it's easier for scum to press questions in a way to "prove" that Player X is town than it is for them to press questions to "prove" that player is scum. A scum player knows who the scum team and who the town team is, and as such, any faux-scumhunting they do is a façade. But townhunting can come more naturally. They can ask questions that allow them an objectiveness that mimics scumhunting without having to actually scumhunt, and occasionally it can result in stumbling upon tells that indicate town power that can be capitalized on. It also can be fly more under the radar to other players, because even if the intentions are dishonest, it doesn't come across as fabrication, smearing or reaching.
I can't specifically explain Duplicity's actions outside of that context, but I'd be willing to dig into them more this weekend if you want my opinion on specifics (let me know otherwise I won't).
...Actually, why did you answer my questions for Duplicity (and implicitly defended him) if you have him as leaning scum?
Because I also have you leaning scum. Also, I didn't actually answer your questions. I questioned the validity of your questions. Did you read my questions or just see that there was text there?
Are you implying that you would only question the validity of the questions of players whom you have leaning scum? If not, what is the purpose of this first sentence? It reads as if you're trying to throw multiple reasons out there to see which will stick.
I guess? I don't see it as a binary thing, but more as a threshold. If there's someone that I find scummier who is asking questions I don't like, I'll call them out on it if I don't think that they're genuine about it. If I think they're town, I'm more likely to let it ride and find out what their reasoning behind it was. I don't have that level of trust with Kosa, and I didn't like the questions. If someone like swish or Rancid (whom I do trust) was asking, I'd have let it run its course.
So your first claim was dumb by saying just Town.. like you had something important to hide... but then a few posts later you go full claim? and it's vanilla town? Because you got something from cy?
Your first town claim makes no sense..
Why didn't you just fully claim the first time?
I was still in the tail end of my oafish stunt and then Cythare gave me the clues I needed. I no longer needed to be scummy and vague with my claim.
From a reread of the end of last night to today, your defense against Dup is odd for two reasons:
One: You had your vote on TMCT the entire day...yet you blame Dups suspicion on you on the Mafia... to paraphrase you "Either he is scum or or dumb town!"
In fact, you were set on TMCT being scum the entire day. So when the mafia killed TMCT, your first instinct is to think they framed you.
Negative. I was not on TMCT's case all of Day 1. Upon a re-read, I realized my initial scum read of him was unfounded and switched over to Sir Karn instead. Check out my post #814. I reveal a lot of what I had behind the curtain.
(I’m skipping my posts that aren’t part of my oafish stunt)
So, basically tl;dr: you're saying that you were trying to see who would jump on you for acting odd, then acting suspicious, then actively calling for your own lynch? How could you see this as a way to find scum?
I'm an experimentalist my man. A guy that likes to think outside the box.
No one has ever accused me of being entirely sane either.
575: Yep, in a matter of 12 minutes from when TMCT asked me about my notes, I stopped time and whipped out more than two hours’ worth of townie-looking notes, then took a photo of them and made the post, attaching the pic to the post. I am just that skilled! [/sarcasm]
This is the second time you've included the bolded adjective, as though you need to reinforce that they're town notes over scum notes. Scum take notes, too, and I didn't see anything in those notes that screamed "town-taken" over "scum-taken".
You're missing my point of the sarcasm entirely.
Just the fact that I took a picture of my notes and posted them, was me being sarcastic. Has anyone else ever posted a picture of their notes in a mafia game--ever?
As a side note, I think I took more physical notes in my scum game (70) than either here or in #69.
Really? You didn't mention that or even hint at it, just "I'll address your questions, Cantrip."
Quote from Kank »
772: Half-heartedly defending my suspicions of Rodemy to someone I’m thinking is town.
Wait...three posts ago you were starting to wonder about me (again), but now you're thinking I'm town?
You missed this part right in the middle: Side note: When the scum team doesn’t play, that’s when the town jump at shadows and the scum use that to their advantage when they can.
The town starts going at each other's throats when the scum stay quiet. I'm not going to vocalize every little doubt I have every time I have one.
I let them build to something tangible.
Want to be specific about what in #784 looks "very, very promising"?
And that language tell is reaching at best. I also don't say anything about you moving up/down! Does that make you my 4th scumbuddy? :devil:
Sir Karn's entry is different from others because as far as I'm concerned, he's tied to you. Duplicity's is different because I cut/pasted from last time and moved things around. The reasons he's in leaning scum are different from others' and it was more relevant to highlight them again. I'd be happy to be less vague if others want clarification/forgot why I said basically the same thing in my previous T/S list.
Re: Rancid Raptor - If you'd followed Cantripmancer's posts (and my own follow-up), you'd understand why I changed my stance slightly on his double-voter ability. I still consider him the closest to confirmed town, but if there's a way to 100% confirm it, hammering someone from L-2 is it. Also, the fact that you highlight yourself in parentheses when explaining this looks horrible. I don't care that you're the lynch today as far as RR's actions are concerned. After the discussion that Cantrip started, I'd hope he would confirm it regardless of who's on the chopping block. The fact that the person on the chopping block is you and that I think you are really scummy are incidental. Are you really equating wanting this confirmation to being scummy?
Also, even if you do somehow flip town, that doesn't equate to having perfect information. Cantrip already pointed this out.
Re: #784; Your "discussion" with Duplicity long after he'd already gone AWOL was eyebrow-raising, but in it, you also mention that you want to see RR test his double-vote on me.
Somebody, somewhere show me a Basic game that had a phantom double-voter.
Oh, and Cythare, I'd like you to show me where you explained in such detail why I was scum that you couldn't be bothered to reiterate at least a small piece of it in your #790 T/S post, especially since I was your only full-scum person on your list.
You guys can be mad at me at end of game if I'm wrong.
I'll still be mad even if you're right; vanilla town shouldn't be dragging the lynch down upon themselves.
Quote from Kank »
Now, on the chance that I'm right, even though my methods are less than popular (which I totally get), please go back and read the game with fresh eyes and take a look at how three players act and interact throughout this game:
Sir Karn, Cythare, Duplicity
If you're town, I sorta hope you're wrong, because playing the game this way shouldn't be rewarded, imho. Unless, I guess, you're trying to establish this kind of meta for yourself...but I suspect you're going to be dragged through a lot of frustration before you get to a point where it becomes beneficial.
Other than developing a meta of : "Oh crap! Kank's in this game?"
I think unconventional and unpredictable would be sufficient.
Oh, and I'm not lynched yet.
Are you not entertained?
Just think how boring this day would have been if I wasn't here!
I have an answer to your first question, Cantripmancer, but don't want Kosakosa to jump on me for answering someone else's question. I will hint that it's pretty recent in the thread, though.
If you need me to die to know that I'm not pulling a scum gambit after obviously playing stupid and scummy to get reactions, that's perfectly fine with me.
Can you guarantee 100% that your gambit will catch scum, and is the only way to do so? If not, how are you not just sacrificing yourself and allowing scum and townies to lynch you for justifiable reasons?
100% sure? Is an oafish stunt the only way for me to catch scum?
No, but I sure have a lot of fun doing it!
I also love irony, and I wanted to make my "I'm a good lynch candidate" come true. I still am a good lynch candidate, but what the real townsfolk get is that I'm definitely not the best candidate because the odds that I will flip Marilyn Chambers, Vanilla Town is exceedingly high, despite all of my crazy antics to appear intentionally scummy.
I used these antics to lull the scum into a false sense of security, thinking that I was indeed stupid and an easy mislynch for toDay and give them many opportunities to come in and scum slip here and there, and guess what? They did!
Now even if I end up dying toDay, which is still quite possible, then you will all know for a fact what side I am on and you will have plenty of source material to use.
You all already know who I think the scum team is, so it's just a matter of coming to the same conclusions on your own.
I used these antics to lull the scum into a false sense of security, thinking that I was indeed stupid and an easy mislynch for toDay and give them many opportunities to come in and scum slip here and there, and guess what? They did!
Ugh. This part right here is the root of the problem. Antics can lure town and scum alike, for entirely justifiable reasons. Therefore, your play (if you are lynched and do flip town) is not giving the town any usable data at all.
Then, you have your views, which are simply your opinions (again, assuming you are lynched and flip town). Couple this with your tendency to be incorrect about the effects of your gambits (ref: Basic 69), and I see compelling reasons to not trust your reads or gambits.
Even if you are town, are lynched, and your reads are all correct, there is no reasons to trust your reads.
In essence, when trying to get lynched: if you are town, you might be right or wrong (but can't be sure yourself), but you are definitely sacrificing yourself.
You said it best (on the subject of 'trapping' Polski in a gambit that you also claimed to have 'trapped' two others, both of whom turned out to be town):
Want to be specific about what in #784 looks "very, very promising"?
And that language tell is reaching at best. I also don't say anything about you moving up/down! Does that make you my 4th scumbuddy? :devil:
Sir Karn's entry is different from others because as far as I'm concerned, he's tied to you. Duplicity's is different because I cut/pasted from last time and moved things around. The reasons he's in leaning scum are different from others' and it was more relevant to highlight them again. I'd be happy to be less vague if others want clarification/forgot why I said basically the same thing in my previous T/S list.
Re: Rancid Raptor - If you'd followed Cantripmancer's posts (and my own follow-up), you'd understand why I changed my stance slightly on his double-voter ability. I still consider him the closest to confirmed town, but if there's a way to 100% confirm it, hammering someone from L-2 is it. Also, the fact that you highlight yourself in parentheses when explaining this looks horrible. I don't care that you're the lynch today as far as RR's actions are concerned. After the discussion that Cantrip started, I'd hope he would confirm it regardless of who's on the chopping block. The fact that the person on the chopping block is you and that I think you are really scummy are incidental. Are you really equating wanting this confirmation to being scummy?
Also, even if you do somehow flip town, that doesn't equate to having perfect information. Cantrip already pointed this out.
Re: #784; Your "discussion" with Duplicity long after he'd already gone AWOL was eyebrow-raising, but in it, you also mention that you want to see RR test his double-vote on me.
Somebody, somewhere show me a Basic game that had a phantom double-voter.
Oh, and Cythare, I'd like you to show me where you explained in such detail why I was scum that you couldn't be bothered to reiterate at least a small piece of it in your #790 T/S post, especially since I was your only full-scum person on your list.
So, your reasoning on RR is "because it's a Basic" and that's it? I'll admit that it's very, very unlikely, but when Cantrip brought up that we should test it 100%, it seemed like a good idea. You're using the fact that I thought this was a good idea to say that I'm scum? Also, how do you feel about anyone else who agrees that this was a good idea to 100% confirm?
Also, what about me questioning Duplicity was eyebrow-raising? I had been on V/LA for a week, so I was responding to things as I was catching up. Is there anything specific there that you want to know about besides the timing of my questions/comments?
Re: Your stuff - I thought I had, but apparently just noted bits and pieces throughout. If you actually want me to collect them, I'd be happy to.
I have an answer to your first question, Cantripmancer, but don't want Kosakosa to jump on me for answering someone else's question. I will hint that it's pretty recent in the thread, though.
Why fear Kosakosa?
Who said anything about fearing? I was poking fun at him for getting angry at me about answering other people's questions.
Ok, so Dup's replacement is being sought. It sounds like the majority agree that it'd be better to lynch Kank than let Dup be modkilled, so how long are we going to wait?
I'm still for a Kank lynch because I still think he's scum.
Hey everyone, internet got cut of where I am (Using internet at my GF's house right now to post this, slightly awkward requesting to use her net to log on to a mafia site) and I'm going to need to be replaced. Really really wish I had the privacy to try and catch up and leave you behind my detailed reads and thoughts but I don't.
Of the top of my head (Haven't read anything from my last post onwards) for a bunch of reasons RR is confirmed town, I have a very strong reason to think Cantrip is town. I have a strong town read on Swissh and Archae and I want to think I'm right on Rodemy but I don't think I'd consider him as town as the other two. I'm very confident Kank is scum. Everything else (Karn / Cythare / Kosaka) I'm very eh on but I remember the TMCT kill means Kasoka might be scum because I kind of was expecting to die over him so his death points heavily towards correct reads ie. Kosakoa scum.
Alright, good luck. Oh and please please please lynch the **** out of Kank at some point because a great deal of his play yesterday flat out just does not add up and reads as incredibly scummy. In fact I'd bet a lot that he's scum.
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You know the way I feel about this, I don't know how to explain. But I know someone who does.
this guy obviously knows what hes talking about.
It's Hip to be a Square
Tonight, I promise!
I'm not sure I follow your question here. I would want to see reasoning in your T/S list, either with your reads (as you did) or after.
I assume I would have the same reaction to your trying to appease me (by talking about things being a consolation to me) no matter where it appeared in your post.
I don't see the point in town behaving this way, unless you are guaranteed to catch scum 100%. Which I doubt is the case.
Can you explain why you would purposefully play oafishly when such play attracts the warranted suspicion of both scum and townies alike? All I see you doing is hurting the town's chances with your play.
So supposing the Kank wagon doesn't take off, who would you like to see lynched instead if someone had to be lynched now
It's Hip to be a Square
Kank is my #1 scumspect. Kosa is #2. Rodemy is #3.
--
Speaking of Kosa, his posts from late yesterDay through toDay:
His last post with content was on the 1st of the month, which is two weeks ago.. Next:
This was on the 4th of the month.
This post was on the 6th, still no content.
Then he comes back on the 11th to tell us that the game is "so ****ing slow."
Still no content and throws a question out and doesn't follow up.
He comes back on the 14th, still with no content.
He complains about no one playing, and includes himself..
Asks Cantrip to do a T/S. Not even an actual question with it.
Defends Rodemy.
Does a hit and run on Kank without explaining any reasoning whatsoever.
Is your name Duplicity?
So the moment I start posting more, I'm suddenly not leaning scum anymore?
In which games have I coasted? How and why is my behavior here any different from said games in which I posted with less frequency?
What was it that didn't you like? Be specific.
Reading is tech huh
1-) Asking Cantrip for a T/S list is the same as asking for his opinions on 9 players
2-) My vote on Kank is explained by my defense of Rodemy. Rodemy's behavior, IMO, is exactly like his one in BSG. This is his second game and unless I'm HUGELY underestimating him, he isn't skilled enough in Mafia to consciously delve into his own town meta as scum. I've stated this more than once ITT.
Kank disregards it. I read it as scum going for the low-hanging fruit. I vote him. He doesn't even acknowledge my vote nor claims when brought to L-2. My vote stays.
whelp.
It's Hip to be a Square
Hang tight true believers!
It's Hip to be a Square
Kank’s translation of Kank’s erratic play:
(I’m skipping my posts that aren’t part of my oafish stunt)
351: Cannonball! Let’s see what waves I can make in this game…
356: After a quick skim read, I’ve pulled out TMCT and Sir Karn as my two early suspects. My dropping of TMCT comes later upon a full re-read of him, as mentioned in a later post.
359: I say some stupid things to see who chastises me over them. Trying to get a read on Duplicity.
375: I post the few notes I took on TMCT.
376: Crazy plan brewing. Foreshadowing.
379: More foreshadowing. (Middle line)
383: Trying to code Archae into my pending behavior by furtively seeing if he remembers how I acted in #69 and he completely missed it.
387: Come on man! I made the perfect hidden-meaning double-entendre! Do you really not remember how I was in HTTYD?
390: Huge cookie to Raptor for making the (albeit late) connection to this one!
394: Darn you Archae for making me spell it out to you! How come you don’t know me as well as I know me? :B Slight clue here to #2 of Duplicity’s dialogue: I was in the beginning process of actually making myself a good choice for a lynch. Why? Because I wanted to! No, not just to be a dick and be detrimental to town, but to play the reaction game and see what a little fishing would turn up…with me as the bait!
507: After reading more of the game I realized I was misguided on my limited assessment of TMCT.
519: You can tell upon my reread where I changed my mind on TMCT for the most part. (Once I feel someone is bad, I have a tough time completely trusting them after they leave my crosshairs.)
520: Want some clues of what type of behavior you can expect from me? Day 2 of Basic #69 baby. I’ll refer people back to my atrocious play in this game at some point in the future, for sure!
571: Duplicity, it is so on now!!!
573: More clues and insight to my plans. Continuously feeling better about TMCT at this point despite not taking him off my scum section of my T/S list.
575: Yep, in a matter of 12 minutes from when TMCT asked me about my notes, I stopped time and whipped out more than two hours’ worth of townie-looking notes, then took a photo of them and made the post, attaching the pic to the post. I am just that skilled! [/sarcasm]
577: Uh, you’re smack dab right in the middle of it TMCT!!! Good chance I was smirking while posting that, figuring nobody would catch my sarcasm!
601: It’s 3AM and Kank’s going to amuse himself now.
661: Little did I know that my innocuous move of Rodemy on my list would strike Duplicity gold, who I’d already been suspecting as defending Sir Karn a little too suspiciously. Would a town Sir Karn be so trusting of newcomer Duplicity’s behavior? I think not! I left Duplicity on this list much higher than I actually felt he deserved to see what more I could get out of him and his chainsaw defense tactics.
663: Give me more Dup, more!
672: Getting some good results on Dup!
674: More Rodemy bait for Duplicity.
678: Could tell that Sir Karn (677) wasn’t really on to what I was doing—adding more tiny morsels to the Rodemy bait. (At this point I really didn’t feel like Rodemy was scum, I was just so intrigued as to why Duplicity was being so defensive of him.)
688: Denying a future push on Rodemy, yet so hoping that there would be an opportunity to do so and see how Dup would react.
Duplicity’s last post (#698) really clued me in…
699: Wake up town! TMCT was not chosen at random by the scum team.
TMCT’s top scum reads were Void, (me), and Kosakosa before he died. Sir Karn is scum. Killing TMCT also helped point out that Kank’s early scum-assessment of TMCT was wrong and therefore, Kank’s scum read of Sir Karn must be too. Sorry Charlie! Duplicity’s ridiculous last line of TMCT’s NK being even more of a reason to lynch me solidly put Duplicity as scum to me. Sir Karn happily added himself to my fresh wagon in the following post.
704: Putting together my Day 2 plan, but I needed town to play too.
706: Since Sir Karn was the only one playing, I felt like appearing defeatist and doubtful of my reads, wondering when the rest of the town would start playing again. I had Sir Karn and Duplicity solid as scum, but I wanted to know who was number three!
735: I really did find Archae’s sentence as odd, but he did a great job of clearing it up for me later.
Time to see if I can get Duplicity back out of hiding with my wishy-washy addition of Rodemy to my scum team list!
750: I’d written off Archae and Cantrip as town by this point, so it was time to see what I could get with outright voting for Rodemy, even though I was far more convinced that Sir Karn and Duplicity were just using him, but you never know. I’d also figured if anything would bring Duplicity out of hiding, it would be me voting for Rodemy.
761: Getting frustrated that Duplicity still wasn't coming to the party. Hoping that I could lure scum #3 out of hiding and into the open.
769: Starting to wonder about Cantrip again. Kosakosa pretty lurky.
Side note: When the scum team doesn’t play, that’s when the town jump at shadows and the scum use that to their advantage when they can.
772: Half-heartedly defending my suspicions of Rodemy to someone I’m thinking is town.
785 (784): Oooh, a good meaty post from Cythare that looks very, very promising! No time to follow-up unfortunately.
789: Claim bait.
791: Claim bait was unnecessary because Cythare just gave himself away (790).
Take a look at his assessments of Sir Karn and Duplicity.
Catch some of the wording used with other players: everyone else is “moved here, stays here” while Sir Karn and Duplicity have completely different types of assessments. Sir Karn’s is based on “how I will flip” and if I flip town, Karn will need a re-read. I said something very, very similar to this as scum in #70.
Very vague read on Duplicity, but completely different from the other two players in his “Leaning scum” category, if you’ll notice.
Earlier in the game, mentioned that Rancid Raptor would be confirmed as town once double voter ability was proven, and even said so (go back and read Cythare’s 411, that T/S list is also full of yummy goodness), and notice that now Cythare will be truly convinced once RR hammers (me).
I have the scum team for you all people.
Go read them all and their assessments-of/play-with each other if you don’t believe me.
If you need me to die first to know I’m legit, I am totally fine with that.
I don't see how you can't see SOME suspicion on him. He's painting me town waaaay too hard.
Also, the suspicion on me is legit. I absentmindedly didn't take into account kank and Dup could be scum buddies. Like i posted that and went to bed, and thought about it later that night and went, FUUUUUCK. But hindsight is always 20/20
Cantrip seems super towny to me. Go you
I think the TMCT kill was odd because he was really only after Archae (from what i read of the vote counts that was his vote for the majority of his game)
But here is where i get... iffy
So your first claim was dumb by saying just Town.. like you had something important to hide... but then a few posts later you go full claim? and it's vanilla town? Because you got something from cy?
Your first town claim makes no sense..
Why didn't you just fully claim the first time?
EWP
I did a reread of Kank D2.. my findings:
Doubted it how?
From a reread of the end of last night to today, your defense against Dup is odd for two reasons:
One: You had your vote on TMCT the entire day...yet you blame Dups suspicion on you on the Mafia... to paraphrase you "Either he is scum or or dumb town!"
In fact, you were set on TMCT being scum the entire day. So when the mafia killed TMCT, your first instinct is to think they framed you.
Two: Look alive people? The day had just started and Dups case was... well constructed.
This interaction between Dup and Kank make it REALLY hard for me to see Scum and Scum. That's why i didn't think about it! AHA! I knew it was there somewhere.
I kind of see Dup Forcing the wagon on kank to start and using the kill for the night as cannonfodder... which to me sounds premeditated
So as much as i want Kank to be scum, i can't see it right now. But dups first post seems very premeditated
So i really don't know what to think about those two. I know kank is Suspicious as balls on a lady right now, but Dup isn't really on my town list either... but If they were both scum, these two posts would NOT make sense.. (i.e dups case on kank and kanks response.)
Kank wouldn't call out Dup as scum just to have Kank call him out as scum, what would that gather? kank flips scum, Dup is still suspicious for pointing it out his first post of the day... and if Kank flips town.... Dups first sentences would possibly clear him down the road.....
Us: Hey dup, why did you start a wagon on kank. HE FLIPPED TOWN!
Dup: Oh well you see, my gut... and as i told you, i doubted my reads.
He starts off by saying that he doesn't trust his reads too well... and then says the one read he DOES trust... on Kank...
UGH I AM THINKING WAY TOO HARD AND I NEED TO GO TO WORK >:[
Dup and Kank are waaay to suspicious in my book right now.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kank was a Nuet... but Dup... i am not sure anymore.
So, basically tl;dr: you're saying that you were trying to see who would jump on you for acting odd, then acting suspicious, then actively calling for your own lynch? How could you see this as a way to find scum?
I'm sorry, I thought you said that line referred to your 69 and 70 games...but then again, you didn't respond to my latest question on that line.
This is the second time you've included the bolded adjective, as though you need to reinforce that they're town notes over scum notes. Scum take notes, too, and I didn't see anything in those notes that screamed "town-taken" over "scum-taken".
Really? You didn't mention that or even hint at it, just "I'll address your questions, Cantrip."
Wait...three posts ago you were starting to wonder about me (again), but now you're thinking I'm town?
Um, here's the problem with that logic: if you're town,
Kank's ceased answering questions; he's just masterbating with WIFOM. Still, it'd be nice for Duplicity to get back in here and post, so I'm fine with waiting until we get a little closer to the deadline for RR to hammer.
As an out-of-game aside, I'm now looking for TWO replacements in my game, Dr. Polyopticon's Transcendental Orchestra (on Day 2), and feeling a bit desperate. If anyone's interested, please PM me!!
That answered my question. Like I said previously, you asked, so I tried to engage you in some irrelevant banter, which in retrospect looks bad in the context of the T/S list. Live and learn (and then get Luvs).
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@Rancid Raptor
Doesn't take off? He's at L-2 (+2 fake votes - swishh and myself). Also, as shown in my T/S list, I don't have anyone else that I'm sold on as scum. Of my "leaning scum" pile, I'd choose Duplicity, though. I would want to see more from Kosakosa first, and I haven't taken the time to reevaluate Archae.
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@Kosakosa
If your questions looked legitimate instead of like busywork, I'd have left them alone.
You're still leaning scum, if you can't tell from my T/S list. When you start posting more, I'll be able to start getting a better read on you. Maybe you'll move up, maybe you'll move down. I don't know, because I haven't gotten that strong of a read on you yet.
I was specifically referring to a game where you were confirmed town, and by hearsay, understand that you were less constructive because you equated being confirmed town to having less imperfect information than everyone else. I'd look for it, but you don't have your completed games collected anywhere and I'm lazy.
Also, I wanted to see how you'd react, since I don't recall you being this low-activity in Town games I've played with you (although maybe that's in part due to your new job, this was the case prior to your announcement as well).
Besides the busywork questions to Duplicity, complaining about others not participating when they've at least provided content with their posts, and saying "it's okay my late game is better anyways"? Nothing.
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@Kank
Want to be specific about what in #784 looks "very, very promising"?
And that language tell is reaching at best. I also don't say anything about you moving up/down! Does that make you my 4th scumbuddy? :devil:
Sir Karn's entry is different from others because as far as I'm concerned, he's tied to you. Duplicity's is different because I cut/pasted from last time and moved things around. The reasons he's in leaning scum are different from others' and it was more relevant to highlight them again. I'd be happy to be less vague if others want clarification/forgot why I said basically the same thing in my previous T/S list.
Re: Rancid Raptor - If you'd followed Cantripmancer's posts (and my own follow-up), you'd understand why I changed my stance slightly on his double-voter ability. I still consider him the closest to confirmed town, but if there's a way to 100% confirm it, hammering someone from L-2 is it. Also, the fact that you highlight yourself in parentheses when explaining this looks horrible. I don't care that you're the lynch today as far as RR's actions are concerned. After the discussion that Cantrip started, I'd hope he would confirm it regardless of who's on the chopping block. The fact that the person on the chopping block is you and that I think you are really scummy are incidental. Are you really equating wanting this confirmation to being scummy?
Also, even if you do somehow flip town, that doesn't equate to having perfect information. Cantrip already pointed this out.
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@Rodemy
When did you start suspecting Duplicity, and how strong of a scum read do you have on him? You mentioned his fervor to paint you as town once before when someone else mentioned it, but I don't remember you suspecting him at all until someone else did.
Also, you have both a town and scum read on Kank? Are you saying you'd rather pursue Duplicity because you think it'll clear Kank if he's scum (do you think they are linked), or are you just being paranoid?
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It's Hip to be a Square
Well, it's been 7 days since Duplicity has posted here.. So how long do you feel like waiting?
@Mod: Has Duplicity been prodded recently?
Seppel announced that Duplicity was prodded in the Votecount yesterday.
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No, it doesn't work like that. I don't care what you think about my questions directed at another player, you shouldn't answer them.
...Actually, why did you answer my questions for Duplicity (and implicitly defended him) if you have him as leaning scum?
Because I also have you leaning scum. Also, I didn't actually answer your questions. I questioned the validity of your questions. Did you read my questions or just see that there was text there?[/color][/font]
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Seppel prodded Dup yesterday. Rules say Dup has 48 hours to respond or he will be replaced. If replacement is needed, given both the lack of respondents for Void and what seems like a lot of replacements in other games being needed, there's a fair chance that Duplicity could end up modkilled. If Seppel again provides ~72 hours for a replacement to be found, we're looking at the 20th before that happens.
I would rather proceed with the actual wagon (Kank) than have Duplicity modkilled, so if Duplicity doesn't respond to the prod (and Seppel announces that he's seeking a replacement), I recommend we move ahead with lynching Kank (via RR double-vote) rather than hoping that a replacement is found and somehow gets caught up before the deadline. Objections?
Sounds fair.
Yes you answered the first one. Duplicity could simply copypaste it and presto: the whole point of analyzing his behavior based on his answer is gone.
I didn't like his eagerness to go through the Void lynch no matter what, including not waiting for Cantrip to post his opinions before Void's flip. People that don't want/need other players' insights to solve the game are generally the ones that already have the game solved aka scum, and that rings a major bell in my head.
Why did you feel like stating your Cantrip's opinion to me when I haven't asked you that, then following up with a question for Duplicity?
What if Duplicity's slot has a Night action to perform?
I guess? In that case, I'm sorry for that, even though I stand by questioning your questions.
The statement about Cantrip and wanting to hear Duplicity's responses to Cantrip's questions was actually unrelated. I just forgot to put a line between the two parts of that post.[/color][/font]
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
It's Hip to be a Square
While Kosakosa makes a fair point about Duplicity having Night actions to perform, I think this is fair. I have no interest in dragging this game on for a second Day in a row to wait for a replacement, and there's two reasons:
1) I'd rather lynch someone I'm certain is scum than have someone I'm fairly certain is scum get modkilled due to inactivity.
2) This gives a potential replacement some time to replace in at a timing/pace that is more fair to the rest of us that are participating.
@Kosa: What is your most up-to-date read on Duplicity? If you think he's scummy, does it matter if he has a night action (such as the Nightkill) to perform?
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1.He back pats himself as the most towniest deserving of the Doc's protection
2.Town hunts rather then scum hunts
3.Tells the doctor what to do(In the games i've been in and read, seems only scum does this.)
4. Obesessive and pointless protecting of Rodemy.
5.Promises re-reads and new T/s list then disappears.
6. Replaces someone who was just /barning what people said and providing no content themsevles.
7. Outright attacked void to the point of void rage quitting. And to me seemed a blatently obvious town tell. Void is too experienced to rage quit a game as scum IMO
8. With one flip decides all his reads, except one, are wrong.
I personaly feel Duplicity is scum. Kank is about third or so on the list of possibilities and I'm only willing to lynch him because of that plus he'd be dead anyway with the vote count on him.
It's Hip to be a Square
I'm keeping my vote on Rodemy. At least I'm pretty sure that's where it is. And I strongly urge town not to lynch Duplicity toDay.
Unvote
Vote: Rodemy
My most up-to-date read on him is the one I stated in my last post. Although I liked his early game (I remember adding a "towniest townie of the town" comment on Scumdar on his catchup-T/S list post), his eagerness to end the Day while disregarding Cantrip's opinions felt very scummy.
It won't matter if he's AWOL scum. Mafia always choose their actions collectively, so another mafioso could use Duplicity to perform the NK. If he's an AWOL town PR, however, that's a problem.
Regardless of his scumminess, lynching him while he's AWOL is dumb. We gain nothing from analyzing his wagon, we gain nothing from his answers and interactions while being questioned, we don't get even get his claim. What if he's the cop or doc?
If he gets modkilled, **** happens. But lynching him in our current situation is like the worst idea ever.
I agree with you here. While I have Duplicity leaning scum, I see no added benefit from lynching him toDay. Lynching more sure scum (Kankennon) who's been actively interacting with everyone over (IMO) less sure scum (Duplicity) who has not been interacting with anyone is only going to help shed more light on who the other scum are. Lynching Duplicity now is doing us all a disservice. We can pursue Duplicity or his potential replacement Tomorrow with additional information and hopefully someone who will respond to a line of questioning.
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If you need me to die to know that I'm not pulling a scum gambit after obviously playing stupid and scummy to get reactions, that's perfectly fine with me.
Now, on the chance that I'm right, even though my methods are less than popular (which I totally get), please go back and read the game with fresh eyes and take a look at how three players act and interact throughout this game:
Sir Karn, Cythare, Duplicity
I can give more specifics once I have more time later tonight (my late at night means very very late) and answer any questions that I don't have time to right now.
Should I take this as you believing that Kank is town? And no, we definitely should not lynch Duplicity today. No reactions, no responses, no reads: no way.
I'll still be mad even if you're right; vanilla town shouldn't be dragging the lynch down upon themselves.
If you're town, I sorta hope you're wrong, because playing the game this way shouldn't be rewarded, imho. Unless, I guess, you're trying to establish this kind of meta for yourself...but I suspect you're going to be dragged through a lot of frustration before you get to a point where it becomes beneficial.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
It's Hip to be a Square
My point was that the 'playful banter' you used (which I would not categorize as such) looks bad out of the T/S context as well. It looks scummy either place.
I want to ask about your opinion of Duplicity. You don't agree with his town-tells or the extent to which s/he applies them. Do you think that hunting for town rather than scum is scummy? Can you explain how you think that Duplicity's actions are not in the best interest of the town?
Are you implying that you would only question the validity of the questions of players whom you have leaning scum? If not, what is the purpose of this first sentence? It reads as if you're trying to throw multiple reasons out there to see which will stick.
Can you guarantee 100% that your gambit will catch scum, and is the only way to do so? If not, how are you not just sacrificing yourself and allowing scum and townies to lynch you for justifiable reasons?
What is this a reference to? (Arguments against what?)
@Everyone: I plan on reading Kankennon's scum game, but I starting to see Kankennon as town. I am against his/her lynch. The level to which Kankennon seems to believe in his/her own gambit reads as authentic to me.
i really don't know what to think anymore. I pretty much dig a hole every time i post something..
I don;t know how to read people at all. I see Dup's post after d2 started as premeditated.. Using the nightkill to callout Kank is weird in my book.
As for kank.. He is ACTING scummy, but i have no fuggin clue if he is actually scum. this game is really hard to follow for me. I got a bunch to read and A lot to take in and a lot that i don't understand. but i am trying to add my two cents in when i can and it is.. stupid really.
It's hard to tell with those two.
Dup's case on Kank makes him scummy to me.
Kanks stupid claim ploy is scummy to me.
and the people voting me are just pissing me off even more.
But the interaction between Kank and Dup seems.. off. and with dup not posting it's hard to make a real assessment....
So lets lynch Kank. And just end the day. let tomorrow give us more clues.
I just pray to god the scum kill me before you guys do, because that seems like where the wagon is going and i don't like it.
Well, that's part of what I do, so I can't help you then.
While I don't have a ton of relevant experience in this respect, I do think that townhunting is scummy. I feel it's easier for scum to press questions in a way to "prove" that Player X is town than it is for them to press questions to "prove" that player is scum. A scum player knows who the scum team and who the town team is, and as such, any faux-scumhunting they do is a façade. But townhunting can come more naturally. They can ask questions that allow them an objectiveness that mimics scumhunting without having to actually scumhunt, and occasionally it can result in stumbling upon tells that indicate town power that can be capitalized on. It also can be fly more under the radar to other players, because even if the intentions are dishonest, it doesn't come across as fabrication, smearing or reaching.
I can't specifically explain Duplicity's actions outside of that context, but I'd be willing to dig into them more this weekend if you want my opinion on specifics (let me know otherwise I won't).
I guess? I don't see it as a binary thing, but more as a threshold. If there's someone that I find scummier who is asking questions I don't like, I'll call them out on it if I don't think that they're genuine about it. If I think they're town, I'm more likely to let it ride and find out what their reasoning behind it was. I don't have that level of trust with Kosa, and I didn't like the questions. If someone like swish or Rancid (whom I do trust) was asking, I'd have let it run its course.
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I was still in the tail end of my oafish stunt and then Cythare gave me the clues I needed. I no longer needed to be scummy and vague with my claim.
Negative. I was not on TMCT's case all of Day 1. Upon a re-read, I realized my initial scum read of him was unfounded and switched over to Sir Karn instead. Check out my post #814. I reveal a lot of what I had behind the curtain.
Premeditated is a good way to put it. I feel the same way about Dup's final post.
I'm an experimentalist my man. A guy that likes to think outside the box.
No one has ever accused me of being entirely sane either.
You're missing my point of the sarcasm entirely.
Just the fact that I took a picture of my notes and posted them, was me being sarcastic. Has anyone else ever posted a picture of their notes in a mafia game--ever?
As a side note, I think I took more physical notes in my scum game (70) than either here or in #69.
You missed this part right in the middle:
Side note: When the scum team doesn’t play, that’s when the town jump at shadows and the scum use that to their advantage when they can.
The town starts going at each other's throats when the scum stay quiet. I'm not going to vocalize every little doubt I have every time I have one.
I let them build to something tangible.
I'm not lynched yet, and even if I do get lynched toDay, you guys have a buttload of material to use come Day 3.
Get pissed at me all you want, but my crazy endeavors bear fruit.
Re: #784; Your "discussion" with Duplicity long after he'd already gone AWOL was eyebrow-raising, but in it, you also mention that you want to see RR test his double-vote on me.
Somebody, somewhere show me a Basic game that had a phantom double-voter.
Oh, and Cythare, I'd like you to show me where you explained in such detail why I was scum that you couldn't be bothered to reiterate at least a small piece of it in your #790 T/S post, especially since I was your only full-scum person on your list.
For your consideration then: Sir Karn or Cythare.
Other than developing a meta of : "Oh crap! Kank's in this game?"
I think unconventional and unpredictable would be sufficient.
Oh, and I'm not lynched yet.
Are you not entertained?
Just think how boring this day would have been if I wasn't here!
Why fear Kosakosa?
100% sure? Is an oafish stunt the only way for me to catch scum?
No, but I sure have a lot of fun doing it!
I also love irony, and I wanted to make my "I'm a good lynch candidate" come true. I still am a good lynch candidate, but what the real townsfolk get is that I'm definitely not the best candidate because the odds that I will flip Marilyn Chambers, Vanilla Town is exceedingly high, despite all of my crazy antics to appear intentionally scummy.
I used these antics to lull the scum into a false sense of security, thinking that I was indeed stupid and an easy mislynch for toDay and give them many opportunities to come in and scum slip here and there, and guess what? They did!
Now even if I end up dying toDay, which is still quite possible, then you will all know for a fact what side I am on and you will have plenty of source material to use.
You all already know who I think the scum team is, so it's just a matter of coming to the same conclusions on your own.
Ugh. This part right here is the root of the problem. Antics can lure town and scum alike, for entirely justifiable reasons. Therefore, your play (if you are lynched and do flip town) is not giving the town any usable data at all.
Then, you have your views, which are simply your opinions (again, assuming you are lynched and flip town). Couple this with your tendency to be incorrect about the effects of your gambits (ref: Basic 69), and I see compelling reasons to not trust your reads or gambits.
Even if you are town, are lynched, and your reads are all correct, there is no reasons to trust your reads.
In essence, when trying to get lynched: if you are town, you might be right or wrong (but can't be sure yourself), but you are definitely sacrificing yourself.
You said it best (on the subject of 'trapping' Polski in a gambit that you also claimed to have 'trapped' two others, both of whom turned out to be town):
What do you feel about Cythare?
So, your reasoning on RR is "because it's a Basic" and that's it? I'll admit that it's very, very unlikely, but when Cantrip brought up that we should test it 100%, it seemed like a good idea. You're using the fact that I thought this was a good idea to say that I'm scum? Also, how do you feel about anyone else who agrees that this was a good idea to 100% confirm?
Also, what about me questioning Duplicity was eyebrow-raising? I had been on V/LA for a week, so I was responding to things as I was catching up. Is there anything specific there that you want to know about besides the timing of my questions/comments?
Re: Your stuff - I thought I had, but apparently just noted bits and pieces throughout. If you actually want me to collect them, I'd be happy to.
Who said anything about fearing? I was poking fun at him for getting angry at me about answering other people's questions.
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You said you "forgot" about him when cy mentioned not even 2 posts before.. (and timewise 30 minutes before) Wait for Duplicity...
toMorrow look into Cy and Swshh if Kank flips town....
Ok, so Dup's replacement is being sought. It sounds like the majority agree that it'd be better to lynch Kank than let Dup be modkilled, so how long are we going to wait?
I'm still for a Kank lynch because I still think he's scum.
Of the top of my head (Haven't read anything from my last post onwards) for a bunch of reasons RR is confirmed town, I have a very strong reason to think Cantrip is town. I have a strong town read on Swissh and Archae and I want to think I'm right on Rodemy but I don't think I'd consider him as town as the other two. I'm very confident Kank is scum. Everything else (Karn / Cythare / Kosaka) I'm very eh on but I remember the TMCT kill means Kasoka might be scum because I kind of was expecting to die over him so his death points heavily towards correct reads ie. Kosakoa scum.
Alright, good luck. Oh and please please please lynch the **** out of Kank at some point because a great deal of his play yesterday flat out just does not add up and reads as incredibly scummy. In fact I'd bet a lot that he's scum.