I do like the bow and have had good success with it in other decks. My main reason for running the armor over something like the bow is the curve. At the 3-cmc slot, there's already 13 cards competing to come out (arguably 9 cards if you want to think of Boon Satyr as 5-drop). The W cost of etheral armor allows it to come down T2 on one of the one drops for early damage (and during a time 2-for-1 is typically not a concern). Ethereal Armor also has wonderful synergy with Boon Satyr. Flashing the Satyr in during combat (as either an enchantment or enchantment creature) provides another target on the board to power up the armor, and it's usually enough to survive with the first strike. Ajani is also in the 3-spot and puts counters on my critters. His -3 ability is also very explosive in combination with a minor enchantment suite.
The 3 lifegain off the bow is nice, but with Unflinching Courage for the same price I can apply more aggression (yay +2/+2 and trample) and still gain life. If I really need lifegain, I also have 2x Archangel of Thune in the SB. As far as targetting flyers, most flyers I would be concerned about will have a toughness better than 2 (Stormbreath Dragon, Desecration Demon, Nightveil Specter). In order to do more damage to said fliers, I would either have to attack, hope they block, and then pop off the bow (while likely having lost one of my creatures as well); or it would be a cavalry pegasus in a weenie deck, and that's very narrow hate as well.
Arguably the ability to recur cards from the grave is probably the most advantageous option with Voice of Resurgence and Advent of the Wurm, but as it goes to the bottom and there are no other cards in the deck with a mechanic allowing me to shuffle, that's more or less ultimately fatesealing myself (and if I wanted recursion, I would argue junk with Whip would be more useful).
Ethereal Armor's cheaper cost also allows certain cards to be put out of removal-by-damage range. On Loxodon Smiter, it's out of Mortars range. On Fleecemane Lion, it's out of Anger range. While admittedly the bow is equally capable, it slows down the pressure of the aggression.
TL;DR: Armor and Courage provide better pressure in an aggressive build. There are good options in the deck to enchant that aren't as subject to removal (X1 regens, Soldier dodges multicolor). Bow has good utility, but is not as useful in an aggro shell as a midrange shell.
I can understand using the armor against other creature decks but against mono Black devotion and control I would think its pretty bad.
I can understand using the armor against other creature decks but against mono Black devotion and control I would think its pretty bad.
Let us know how it goes.
I haven't run across anyone running Mono-B locally, that is one matchup I'll have to run through playtesting. Vs. Control (namely Azorious), I've found slightly more success with this list over the conclave/trostani version of the deck. The main power from either version comes off the strength of Advent of the Wurm and Boon Satyr post-wipe, and by Voice dropping token. With this solid core, I've found that I can push more and threaten more with the enchantments without over-extending myself on dropping creatures.
Addmitedly, I have done significantly less testing of this build than my mono-green build (the green devotion deck is wife's plaything, so had to get that going first. ). As I continue to develop and test this deck, I will certainly let you know how it fares.
Thats nearly identical to the deck im running at the SCG Open LA on the 2nd.. I figured improving the chances of drawining an Ajani was more benficial than a single bow.
Also, rogues passage can be very poweful... I have used it in conjunction with a wurm, smiter, and ajani to swing for 14 , which is pretty much unblockable.
@ET1USN: I've been toying around with giving Rogue's Passage a go. Tapping for 1 can be ok-ish, I'm somewhat concerned with the fact that most of the low-range cards have no colorless in their cost; that being said though, I think it could be worthwhile as an aid with my list to push that damage through (in addition to the courage). Have you had decent luck in your plays and testing with just a singleton, or might 2x be a good number?
I was thinking in replace the 3x Loxodon Smiter with 3xWitchstalker . Due to the actual Metagame (Mono U, Mono B, Esper) I think this card could be great against those MU. Also works great with Unflinching Courage and Boon Satyr.
Any Thoughts ?
They both have their merits. Loxodon is uncounterable, whereas Witchstalker is hexproof. Loxodon escapes anger of the gods, whereas Witchstalker can be hit by it. Against the mirror, Witchstalker can be grown with counters and dodge opposing s-charms. Witchstalker as a hate card vs. U/w/x or mono-u/b is not a bad metacall, and I would say worth considering.
Mind sharing your sideboarding plans? This is a similar direction I'm about to playtest.
I've played two different tweakings of this deck, which I'll post once I get home from work. I've gone 4-2 (11/48) at Provincials and 3-3 (21/58) at a series event with this deck. The 3-3 was aggravating due to extremely terrible draws all day, adding to my frustration playing this deck, as much as I like it.
I think it would be beneficial on this thread to discuss sideboarding plans vs the main oppositions and update the first post much like the primer threads do. Because there are so many different card choices people are going with, maybe discussing and labelling "against deck X, these are the cards in priority order to take out, and priority order to board in". In my experience solid sideboard plans can make or break a deck and consistent tournament placements.
As for playing 3 Ajani, I've really liked playing just two copies of him, but I've never had a situation except against control where I drew him and was displeased. I"ll have to playtest running him as a 3-of and see how that goes.
@ET1USN: I've been toying around with giving Rogue's Passage a go. Tapping for 1 can be ok-ish, I'm somewhat concerned with the fact that most of the low-range cards have no colorless in their cost; that being said though, I think it could be worthwhile as an aid with my list to push that damage through (in addition to the courage). Have you had decent luck in your plays and testing with just a singleton, or might 2x be a good number?
I think if anything... It's a 1 of, for the very reason you listed. I have gotten it in opening hand, but usually I'll have another land to play exp one. Odds are you won't get the card until you hit your fourth land regardless, and that's when you need it.
If you wouldn't mind.. Take of look at my list, I'd love to run courages main... But don't really feel like I can afford to drop anything.
Mind sharing your sideboarding plans? This is a similar direction I'm about to playtest.
I've played two different tweakings of this deck, which I'll post once I get home from work. I've gone 4-2 (11/48) at Provincials and 3-3 (21/58) at a series event with this deck. The 3-3 was aggravating due to extremely terrible draws all day, adding to my frustration playing this deck, as much as I like it.
I think it would be beneficial on this thread to discuss sideboarding plans vs the main oppositions and update the first post much like the primer threads do. Because there are so many different card choices people are going with, maybe discussing and labelling "against deck X, these are the cards in priority order to take out, and priority order to board in". In my experience solid sideboard plans can make or break a deck and consistent tournament placements.
As for playing 3 Ajani, I've really liked playing just two copies of him, but I've never had a situation except against control where I drew him and was displeased. I"ll have to playtest running him as a 3-of and see how that goes.
Yeah sorry, I posted it a little late. My sideboard is primarily geared towards mono blue devotion, as that's the only deck I've had issues with. In the last two weeks I've gone 5-1, 4-1, 3-1, 3-1, 2-2, 2-2. The matches that I didn't do very well in was due to some really bad draws. If there is one thing that this deck really struggles with is suboptimal hands.
The primary reason for the ajani, is that most of the time I just use him for a 3cmc: Target creature does double damage this turn.. Which he usually dies soon after.
He's just too valuable.
I am considering lowering the curve and running more 1 drops, but in playtesting.. They significantly reduce the power of the deck although it makes it much more consistent.
I was thinking in replace the 3x Loxodon Smiter with 3xWitchstalker . Due to the actual Metagame (Mono U, Mono B, Esper) I think this card could be great against those MU. Also works great with Unflinching Courage and Boon Satyr.
Any Thoughts ?
Witch stalker is great, and it really punishes esper which is going to be pretty big for the foreseeable future.
It's a toss up. Personally I haven't tested it, but the Smiter has a more achievable mana cost, starts at a 4/4 and is uncounterable. He is just way to dependable to give up IMO.
Boon Satyr on the other hand, is our weakest card. If you were to give anything up it would be him. He has the same mana cost, the same combined power and defense and equally valuable attributes. The boon can be flash bestowed for a double strike with ajani, or in the defense of a creature. Where as the stalker is a better blocker and punishes the opponents for casting blue and black spells.
I think if anything... It's a 1 of, for the very reason you listed. I have gotten it in opening hand, but usually I'll have another land to play exp one. Odds are you won't get the card until you hit your fourth land regardless, and that's when you need it.
I would tend to agree, I may yet give it a go to see how I like it, I feel I'll like it about as much as I enjoyed Kessig Wolf Run in my old gruul build.
If you wouldn't mind.. Take of look at my list, I'd love to run courages main... But don't really feel like I can afford to drop anything.
It's a tough nut to crack, the question of "what do I drop." I enjoy them as just a 3-of, and assuming you're looking to just shift your 3-of from board to main, I would say, -1 ajani, -1 selesnya charm.... and -1 something else. I've been perfectly happy with just 2x ajani (for me he's an enabler, but not a required part of anything), and I've only run just the 3x s-charms. I would say maybe, -1 Advent of the Wurm? The synergy is good with populate, but without the trostani, your only enabler there is going to be rootborn defenses. For post-wipe pressing of aggro, 3x should still be more than sufficient. Also, given how weak tokens can be with Ratchet Bomb, or any number of bounce effect cards, they're not a great target for enchanting, so slim tokens a bit and then you can have your Courages maindecked.
Thats nearly identical to the deck im running at the SCG Open LA on the 2nd.. I figured improving the chances of drawining an Ajani was more benficial than a single bow.
Also, rogues passage can be very poweful... I have used it in conjunction with a wurm, smiter, and ajani to swing for 14 , which is pretty much unblockable.
anyone have comments on my decklist? Its definitely not ironed out. Glare of hersey in the SB should probably be replaced with Banisher priest
Im thinking the token strategy might be better against control than running fleecemane. Being able to blank verdict when they need it is pretty useful.
I think tonight I'll try either -1 Ajani, -1 Boon, and -1 Charm, or just the 3 rootborn for the 3 courages. That way I still get the value out of Rootborns populate, and -1 boon shouldn't really hurt as I use It primarily as a 5 drop.
anyone have comments on my decklist? Its definitely not ironed out. Glare of hersey in the SB should probably be replaced with Banisher priest
Im thinking the token strategy might be better against control than running fleecemane. Being able to blank verdict when they need it is pretty useful.
As good as Fleecemane is.. It's a tad overrated So yeah, if your going tokens then the conclave would be probably better. You have rootborn to protect your creatures regardless.
I just don't know how I feel about main decking Tristani... He's such a late game card that requires 7 mana and a token before it becomes truly valuable. It's life gain isn't irrelevant but most the time, in my experience when I try to use it it gets removed.
I felt the same way about Trostani, the GGWW cost can be tough, the lifelink isn't overly important (esp. vs. control), and the populate effect is irrelevant without valid targets. Trying to combine the token+ GW "goodstuff" feels cumbersome and ends up doing not as much, at least to my way of thinking and what I've played through in testing and games. If it was an all-in GW token build, I could see more of a benefit to them.
@redirus: -1 Rootborn and -1 S-charm from your board. With 3x of each in your MD, I doubt singletons in the SB will greatly effect your overall game. I would suggest +1 Plummet, as it's a quick cheap way to deal with some of the bigger threats in the format (Stormbreath, D-Demon, Nightveil, Archangel of Thune, or even Angel of Serenity). 2 other choices I'd consider for your board are Celestial Flare which is good on offense or defense; or Fade into Antiquity. I'm not sure what the meta will bear in california, but I would reason that gods will be a pretty big part of it, and both choices help with them.
As good as Fleecemane is.. It's a tad overrated So yeah, if your going tokens then the conclave would be probably better. You have rootborn to protect your creatures regardless.
I just don't know how I feel about main decking Tristani... He's such a late game card that requires 7 mana and a token before it becomes truly valuable. It's life gain isn't irrelevant but most the time, in my experience when I try to use it it gets removed.
Yea I agree about TSV. One option would be -2 TSV, -3 elf, +4 lion, +1forest
SB would be: -2 glare, +1 courage, +1 hydra, -1 rootbound, +1 plummet
Perhaps -2 hydra for +2 skylasher? Im thinking hydra are nice when big but getting that much mana can be tough. Maybe flashing in skylashers against monoblue fliers will be more useful.
Oh yea but then there is banisher priest. hmmmm....
Yea I agree about TSV. One option would be -2 TSV, -3 elf, +4 lion, +1forest
SB would be: -2 glare, +1 courage, +1 hydra, -1 rootbound, +1 plummet
Perhaps -2 hydra for +2 skylasher? Im thinking hydra are nice when big but getting that much mana can be tough. Maybe flashing in skylashers against monoblue fliers will be more useful.
Oh yea but then there is banisher priest. hmmmm....
Bradley what's his face, that won tenn states used Skylashers, but then later said that he playtested the hydras, and found they were better. Makes sense as they are a haste creature that isn't a dead late game draw.
I'm not quite sure how relevant the reach is either. The major upside of it is that using Skylashers essentially help is keep our curve by preserving our two drops.
This is what I played at Provincials going 4-2, I really liked the deck and it had some great draws. I chose to use the Scion build as it did well in testing, and I found the populate plus the flyer always useful. It actually won me two important matches, one again RG Monsters and the other against Esper control.
I had ran the following build at the super series session, going 3-3.
I had terrible draws all tournament long, so the deck definitely underperformed. I found that Soldier of the Patheon was very good in the mirror as a beater. Call of the Conclave was usually underwhelming for me, but did good things at times. I'm thinking of putting a Trostani main and removing the soldiers for the extra Boon Satyr, Rootbound Defenses and a Trostani, which would free up two slots in the sideboard. I think devoting a good number of cards to Blue Devotion is a good idea.
Yea I agree about TSV. One option would be -2 TSV, -3 elf, +4 lion, +1forest
SB would be: -2 glare, +1 courage, +1 hydra, -1 rootbound, +1 plummet
Perhaps -2 hydra for +2 skylasher? Im thinking hydra are nice when big but getting that much mana can be tough. Maybe flashing in skylashers against monoblue fliers will be more useful.
Oh yea but then there is banisher priest. hmmmm....
Skylasher is a moderately decent choice vs. blue assuming no trample from splashing colors; though I think I'd have to suggest getting more mileage still out of Witchstalkers or using plummet on fliers. I also like mistcutter hydras as well for the blue hate, and being applicable early or late game.
Edit: to clarify, understanding skylasher has reach, given prominence of esper, I still lean towards witchstalker as a critter choice in SB.
I have been recently testing 3 witchstalkers MB due to meta, and so far it has been great. The only card that trumps it is anger of the gods, but IMO it has more upside now because of the predominance of removals. Also it is an excellent target for unflinching courage.
Also as MDU have tried on his SB, 1-2 ratchet bomb is also very useful against black or blue devotion decks. On black they usually curve their threats on 3cmc. Lifebane zombie and the whip. On blue it gives you an immediate answer to those elemental tokens.
Ok... So I made a few changes tonight and absolutely killed it going a total of 16-3 making it completely apparent to me that this is the deck I am going to bring to the open... Try it out, it's fantastic.. And yes I know it's 61 but I don't give a **** lol
Creatures
4x experiment one
4x fleecemane lion
4x voice of resurgence
4x call of the conclave
4x London smiter
4x Advent of the Wurm
3x boon satyr
Sideboard
4x Banisher Priest
3x Skylasher
3x Last Breath
3x Glare of Heresey
1x Rootborn Defenses
1x Selesnya Charm
22 lands +1 rogues passage
Match 1: Mono Black Devotion 2-0
This match up was exceptionally easy. Selesnya charms get rid of the 6/6 flyer, Rootborn protects against doom blade, and unflinching courage did major work to get damage through and recoup life gain.
Match 2: mono blue devotion 2-0. The first match was cake, got a turn 5 bestowed advent of the Wurm, and double striked with Ajani for 18 damage. Match two was quite a bit more challenging. I ended up sideboard +4 Banisher Priests, +3 last breaths, +3 Skylashers and did -3 Rootborn, -4 smiter, -3 voice. All in all I killed 2 master of the waves with 2 last breaths, used 2 Banisher priests and 1 charm on 2 thassas, and ended up winning be continuously swinging for 5 turns with a Skylasher for two and won with 2 life left. Wall of frost is a serious issue for us btw....
Match 3 mono black devotion 2-0. See match 1.
Match 4 rdw 2-0. Easy day. Fanatic of Mogis and Reckonrs are a ***** but unflinching courages with our rootborns really do work. Also being able to +2 a reckoned with one charm and them remove it with another is pretty sweet
Match 5 1-2 versus black white red controll. Honestly, I shouldn't of lost these. I kept getting really bad hands, no charms or rootborns and got completely destroyed.
Afterwards I play tested against wafo-tapas esper deck and won 8-1 without sideboarding. Absolutely no issues. Courages help big time with elspeth tokens btw.
All in all I am extremely confident in this deck and the changes I made. 3 of each spell is enough to give me what I need when I need it without being excessive. I used to run 3 ajanis, and tried two today and didn't notice one bit. Unflinching courages are absolutely amazing and swung entire games by themselves. Dropping to 3 satyrs feels right as I only use them to bestow, and chances are I won't have 2 green on turn 3.
As for Skylasher. It did great, and unlike the hydra can block evolved cloudfins, however.. I tried them against the esper deck for one game and it was amazing.. It's very valuable because of the haste, protection from blue, and the X mana cost. No matter what turn you use it after turn 2 it grows in power, and is never a dead card. Also, if we are playing offensively... Doing 4 damage a turn starting at turn 5 might be a lot more valuable than blocking a cloudfins raptor when racing a mono blue devotion. I might end up sideboarding these instead.
Also, I'm questioning the value of the fleecemane. Not once tonight did I get the opportunity to monstrous it. Skylasher might prove a viable replacement as it has flash, is easier to cast, and has protection from blue. The 1 damage 1 defense could matter, but this is just speculation.
Let me know what y'all think! I am very much open to suggestions!
I'm still not sold on the witchstalker. It does dodge around some removal but the meta is heavy with devour flesh, far//away, supreme verdict, anger of the gods, celestial flare, or even ratchet bomb. All of which seem to outnumber classic spot removal spells like doom blade. I could be wrong though, so just let me know how the testing goes. I would be excited if it proved to be a stronger 3cmc than the smiter.
Ok... So I made a few changes tonight and absolutely killed it going a total of 16-3 making it completely apparent to me that this is the deck I am going to bring to the open... Try it out, it's fantastic.. And yes I know it's 61 but I don't give a **** lol
Creatures
4x experiment one
4x fleecemane lion
4x voice of resurgence
4x call of the conclave
4x London smiter
4x Advent of the Wurm
3x boon satyr
Sideboard
4x Banisher Priest
3x Skylasher
3x Last Breath
3x Glare of Heresey
1x Rootborn Defenses
1x Selesnya Charm
22 lands +1 rogues passage
Match 1: Mono Black Devotion 2-0
This match up was exceptionally easy. Selesnya charms get rid of the 6/6 flyer, Rootborn protects against doom blade, and unflinching courage did major work to get damage through and recoup life gain.
Match 2: mono blue devotion 2-0. The first match was cake, got a turn 5 bestowed advent of the Wurm, and double striked with Ajani for 18 damage. Match two was quite a bit more challenging. I ended up sideboard +4 Banisher Priests, +3 last breaths, +3 Skylashers and did -3 Rootborn, -4 smiter, -3 voice. All in all I killed 2 master of the waves with 2 last breaths, used 2 Banisher priests and 1 charm on 2 thassas, and ended up winning be continuously swinging for 5 turns with a Skylasher for two and won with 2 life left. Wall of frost is a serious issue for us btw....
Match 3 mono black devotion 2-0. See match 1.
Match 4 rdw 2-0. Easy day. Fanatic of Mogis and Reckonrs are a ***** but unflinching courages with our rootborns really do work. Also being able to +2 a reckoned with one charm and them remove it with another is pretty sweet
Match 5 1-2 versus black white red controll. Honestly, I shouldn't of lost these. I kept getting really bad hands, no charms or rootborns and got completely destroyed.
Afterwards I play tested against wafo-tapas esper deck and won 8-1 without sideboarding. Absolutely no issues. Courages help big time with elspeth tokens btw.
All in all I am extremely confident in this deck and the changes I made. 3 of each spell is enough to give me what I need when I need it without being excessive. I used to run 3 ajanis, and tried two today and didn't notice one bit. Unflinching courages are absolutely amazing and swung entire games by themselves. Dropping to 3 satyrs feels right as I only use them to bestow, and chances are I won't have 2 green on turn 3.
As for Skylasher. It did great, and unlike the hydra can block evolved cloudfins, however.. I tried them against the esper deck for one game and it was amazing.. It's very valuable because of the haste, protection from blue, and the X mana cost. No matter what turn you use it after turn 2 it grows in power, and is never a dead card. Also, if we are playing offensively... Doing 4 damage a turn starting at turn 5 might be a lot more valuable than blocking a cloudfins raptor when racing a mono blue devotion. I might end up sideboarding these instead.
Also, I'm questioning the value of the fleecemane. Not once tonight did I get the opportunity to monstrous it. Skylasher might prove a viable replacement as it has flash, is easier to cast, and has protection from blue. The 1 damage 1 defense could matter, but this is just speculation.
Let me know what y'all think! I am very much open to suggestions!
Was Mono Black Devotion really that easy? I shocked the life-gain mattered against them and that you were pleased with Unflinching Courage.
Traditionally RDW is a good MU for us but without the extra 1cc and only three forms of lifegain it really couldn't of been easy days unless you drew them both games in a timely fashion without first strike and burn getting in the way.
How good was Rootborn Defenses overall with 23 lands (in a 61 card deck no-less)? Did you ever have mana issues, did you ever activate passage?
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agreed, not worried about it at all.
I can understand using the armor against other creature decks but against mono Black devotion and control I would think its pretty bad.
Let us know how it goes.
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I haven't run across anyone running Mono-B locally, that is one matchup I'll have to run through playtesting. Vs. Control (namely Azorious), I've found slightly more success with this list over the conclave/trostani version of the deck. The main power from either version comes off the strength of Advent of the Wurm and Boon Satyr post-wipe, and by Voice dropping token. With this solid core, I've found that I can push more and threaten more with the enchantments without over-extending myself on dropping creatures.
Addmitedly, I have done significantly less testing of this build than my mono-green build (the green devotion deck is wife's plaything, so had to get that going first. ). As I continue to develop and test this deck, I will certainly let you know how it fares.
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
Thats nearly identical to the deck im running at the SCG Open LA on the 2nd.. I figured improving the chances of drawining an Ajani was more benficial than a single bow.
Also, rogues passage can be very poweful... I have used it in conjunction with a wurm, smiter, and ajani to swing for 14 , which is pretty much unblockable.
Heres my list.
4x Experiment One
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Voice of Resurgence
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Boon Satyr
4x Advent of the Wurm
3x Call of the Conclave
3x Ajani
4x Selesnya Charm
3x Rootborn Defenses
Land
8x Forest
8x Plains
4x Temple Garden
2x Selesnya Guildgate
1x Rogues Passage
3x Unflinching Courage
3x Banisher Preist
3x Skylasher
3x Last Breath
3x Glare of Heresy
Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
Any Thoughts ?
Standard:GW
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Avatar and Sig by Xen's Inkfox Aesthetics
GWLambs and LionsWG
GMono-Green BeatsG
Testing: BGRock VariantGB
GWBJanky JunkGWB
UWGMimic BantrolUWG
BWApostleypse NowBW
Mind sharing your sideboarding plans? This is a similar direction I'm about to playtest.
I've played two different tweakings of this deck, which I'll post once I get home from work. I've gone 4-2 (11/48) at Provincials and 3-3 (21/58) at a series event with this deck. The 3-3 was aggravating due to extremely terrible draws all day, adding to my frustration playing this deck, as much as I like it.
I think it would be beneficial on this thread to discuss sideboarding plans vs the main oppositions and update the first post much like the primer threads do. Because there are so many different card choices people are going with, maybe discussing and labelling "against deck X, these are the cards in priority order to take out, and priority order to board in". In my experience solid sideboard plans can make or break a deck and consistent tournament placements.
As for playing 3 Ajani, I've really liked playing just two copies of him, but I've never had a situation except against control where I drew him and was displeased. I"ll have to playtest running him as a 3-of and see how that goes.
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I think if anything... It's a 1 of, for the very reason you listed. I have gotten it in opening hand, but usually I'll have another land to play exp one. Odds are you won't get the card until you hit your fourth land regardless, and that's when you need it.
If you wouldn't mind.. Take of look at my list, I'd love to run courages main... But don't really feel like I can afford to drop anything.
Yeah sorry, I posted it a little late. My sideboard is primarily geared towards mono blue devotion, as that's the only deck I've had issues with. In the last two weeks I've gone 5-1, 4-1, 3-1, 3-1, 2-2, 2-2. The matches that I didn't do very well in was due to some really bad draws. If there is one thing that this deck really struggles with is suboptimal hands.
The primary reason for the ajani, is that most of the time I just use him for a 3cmc: Target creature does double damage this turn.. Which he usually dies soon after.
He's just too valuable.
I am considering lowering the curve and running more 1 drops, but in playtesting.. They significantly reduce the power of the deck although it makes it much more consistent.
Witch stalker is great, and it really punishes esper which is going to be pretty big for the foreseeable future.
It's a toss up. Personally I haven't tested it, but the Smiter has a more achievable mana cost, starts at a 4/4 and is uncounterable. He is just way to dependable to give up IMO.
Boon Satyr on the other hand, is our weakest card. If you were to give anything up it would be him. He has the same mana cost, the same combined power and defense and equally valuable attributes. The boon can be flash bestowed for a double strike with ajani, or in the defense of a creature. Where as the stalker is a better blocker and punishes the opponents for casting blue and black spells.
Still though.. I don't think id give the boon up.
I would tend to agree, I may yet give it a go to see how I like it, I feel I'll like it about as much as I enjoyed Kessig Wolf Run in my old gruul build.
It's a tough nut to crack, the question of "what do I drop." I enjoy them as just a 3-of, and assuming you're looking to just shift your 3-of from board to main, I would say, -1 ajani, -1 selesnya charm.... and -1 something else. I've been perfectly happy with just 2x ajani (for me he's an enabler, but not a required part of anything), and I've only run just the 3x s-charms. I would say maybe, -1 Advent of the Wurm? The synergy is good with populate, but without the trostani, your only enabler there is going to be rootborn defenses. For post-wipe pressing of aggro, 3x should still be more than sufficient. Also, given how weak tokens can be with Ratchet Bomb, or any number of bounce effect cards, they're not a great target for enchanting, so slim tokens a bit and then you can have your Courages maindecked.
TL;DR -1x Ajani, Caller of the Pride, -1x Selesnya Charm, -1x Advent of the Wurm, +3x Unflinching Courage.
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I'll see you there, hopefully.
Here is mine:
4 Experiment One
4 soldier of the pantheon
4 voice of resurgence
4 Fleecemane Lion
4 Boon Satyr
4 banisher priest
3 selesnya charm
2 God's willing
4 advent of the wurm
3 Ajani, caller of the pride
7 plains
4 temple garden
4 temple of the plenty
2 Mana confluence
3 unflinching courage
3 mistcutter hydra
3 Banishing light
2 celestial flare
2 rootbound defense
2 Setessan tactics
anyone have comments on my decklist? Its definitely not ironed out. Glare of hersey in the SB should probably be replaced with Banisher priest
Im thinking the token strategy might be better against control than running fleecemane. Being able to blank verdict when they need it is pretty useful.
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I think tonight I'll try either -1 Ajani, -1 Boon, and -1 Charm, or just the 3 rootborn for the 3 courages. That way I still get the value out of Rootborns populate, and -1 boon shouldn't really hurt as I use It primarily as a 5 drop.
As good as Fleecemane is.. It's a tad overrated So yeah, if your going tokens then the conclave would be probably better. You have rootborn to protect your creatures regardless.
I just don't know how I feel about main decking Tristani... He's such a late game card that requires 7 mana and a token before it becomes truly valuable. It's life gain isn't irrelevant but most the time, in my experience when I try to use it it gets removed.
@redirus: -1 Rootborn and -1 S-charm from your board. With 3x of each in your MD, I doubt singletons in the SB will greatly effect your overall game. I would suggest +1 Plummet, as it's a quick cheap way to deal with some of the bigger threats in the format (Stormbreath, D-Demon, Nightveil, Archangel of Thune, or even Angel of Serenity). 2 other choices I'd consider for your board are Celestial Flare which is good on offense or defense; or Fade into Antiquity. I'm not sure what the meta will bear in california, but I would reason that gods will be a pretty big part of it, and both choices help with them.
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Yea I agree about TSV. One option would be -2 TSV, -3 elf, +4 lion, +1forest
SB would be: -2 glare, +1 courage, +1 hydra, -1 rootbound, +1 plummet
Perhaps -2 hydra for +2 skylasher? Im thinking hydra are nice when big but getting that much mana can be tough. Maybe flashing in skylashers against monoblue fliers will be more useful.
Oh yea but then there is banisher priest. hmmmm....
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Bradley what's his face, that won tenn states used Skylashers, but then later said that he playtested the hydras, and found they were better. Makes sense as they are a haste creature that isn't a dead late game draw.
I'm not quite sure how relevant the reach is either. The major upside of it is that using Skylashers essentially help is keep our curve by preserving our two drops.
4x Boon Satyr
4x Elvish Mystic
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Loxodon Smiter
4x Scion of Vitu-Ghazi
4x Voice of Resurgence
2x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
4x Advent of the Wurm
4x Selesnya Charm
2x Spear of Heliod
8x Forest
8x Plains
4x Selesnya Guildgate
4x Temple Garden
4x Druid's Deliverance
3x Glare of Heresy
2x Pithing Needle
2x Rootborn Defenses
2x Unflinching Courage
2x Centaur Healer
This is what I played at Provincials going 4-2, I really liked the deck and it had some great draws. I chose to use the Scion build as it did well in testing, and I found the populate plus the flyer always useful. It actually won me two important matches, one again RG Monsters and the other against Esper control.
I had ran the following build at the super series session, going 3-3.
3x Boon Satyr
4x Experiment One
4x Fleecemane Lion
4x Loxodon Smiter
3x Soldier of the Pantheon
4x Voice of Resurgence
2x Ajani, Caller of the Pride
4x Advent of the Wurm
3x Call of the Conclave
2x Rootborn Defenses
4x Selesnya Charm
9x Forest
8x Plains
2x Selesnya Guildgate
4x Temple Garden
2x Trostani, Selesnya's Voice
3x Glare of Heresy
2x Pithing Needle
1x Rootborn Defenses
3x Unflinching Courage
2x Plummet
2x Banisher Priest
I had terrible draws all tournament long, so the deck definitely underperformed. I found that Soldier of the Patheon was very good in the mirror as a beater. Call of the Conclave was usually underwhelming for me, but did good things at times. I'm thinking of putting a Trostani main and removing the soldiers for the extra Boon Satyr, Rootbound Defenses and a Trostani, which would free up two slots in the sideboard. I think devoting a good number of cards to Blue Devotion is a good idea.
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Skylasher is a moderately decent choice vs. blue assuming no trample from splashing colors; though I think I'd have to suggest getting more mileage still out of Witchstalkers or using plummet on fliers. I also like mistcutter hydras as well for the blue hate, and being applicable early or late game.
Edit: to clarify, understanding skylasher has reach, given prominence of esper, I still lean towards witchstalker as a critter choice in SB.
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Also as MDU have tried on his SB, 1-2 ratchet bomb is also very useful against black or blue devotion decks. On black they usually curve their threats on 3cmc. Lifebane zombie and the whip. On blue it gives you an immediate answer to those elemental tokens.
Creatures
4x experiment one
4x fleecemane lion
4x voice of resurgence
4x call of the conclave
4x London smiter
4x Advent of the Wurm
3x boon satyr
Planeswalkers
2x Ajani
Spells
3x Selesnya Charm
3x Rootborn Defenses
3x Unflinching Courage
Sideboard
4x Banisher Priest
3x Skylasher
3x Last Breath
3x Glare of Heresey
1x Rootborn Defenses
1x Selesnya Charm
22 lands +1 rogues passage
Match 1: Mono Black Devotion 2-0
This match up was exceptionally easy. Selesnya charms get rid of the 6/6 flyer, Rootborn protects against doom blade, and unflinching courage did major work to get damage through and recoup life gain.
Match 2: mono blue devotion 2-0. The first match was cake, got a turn 5 bestowed advent of the Wurm, and double striked with Ajani for 18 damage. Match two was quite a bit more challenging. I ended up sideboard +4 Banisher Priests, +3 last breaths, +3 Skylashers and did -3 Rootborn, -4 smiter, -3 voice. All in all I killed 2 master of the waves with 2 last breaths, used 2 Banisher priests and 1 charm on 2 thassas, and ended up winning be continuously swinging for 5 turns with a Skylasher for two and won with 2 life left. Wall of frost is a serious issue for us btw....
Match 3 mono black devotion 2-0. See match 1.
Match 4 rdw 2-0. Easy day. Fanatic of Mogis and Reckonrs are a ***** but unflinching courages with our rootborns really do work. Also being able to +2 a reckoned with one charm and them remove it with another is pretty sweet
Match 5 1-2 versus black white red controll. Honestly, I shouldn't of lost these. I kept getting really bad hands, no charms or rootborns and got completely destroyed.
Afterwards I play tested against wafo-tapas esper deck and won 8-1 without sideboarding. Absolutely no issues. Courages help big time with elspeth tokens btw.
All in all I am extremely confident in this deck and the changes I made. 3 of each spell is enough to give me what I need when I need it without being excessive. I used to run 3 ajanis, and tried two today and didn't notice one bit. Unflinching courages are absolutely amazing and swung entire games by themselves. Dropping to 3 satyrs feels right as I only use them to bestow, and chances are I won't have 2 green on turn 3.
As for Skylasher. It did great, and unlike the hydra can block evolved cloudfins, however.. I tried them against the esper deck for one game and it was amazing.. It's very valuable because of the haste, protection from blue, and the X mana cost. No matter what turn you use it after turn 2 it grows in power, and is never a dead card. Also, if we are playing offensively... Doing 4 damage a turn starting at turn 5 might be a lot more valuable than blocking a cloudfins raptor when racing a mono blue devotion. I might end up sideboarding these instead.
Also, I'm questioning the value of the fleecemane. Not once tonight did I get the opportunity to monstrous it. Skylasher might prove a viable replacement as it has flash, is easier to cast, and has protection from blue. The 1 damage 1 defense could matter, but this is just speculation.
Let me know what y'all think! I am very much open to suggestions!
I've tested against Gruul midrange with fairly positive results. Not mono green though. Not in my meta.
Why did you keep Ajani, Caller of the Pride against Blue (they have 12 flyers)? Skylasher should not be your only answer against them since they run Mutavault and Rapid Hybridization so I would at least try and find room for one Mistcutter Hydra.
Was Mono Black Devotion really that easy? I shocked the life-gain mattered against them and that you were pleased with Unflinching Courage.
Traditionally RDW is a good MU for us but without the extra 1cc and only three forms of lifegain it really couldn't of been easy days unless you drew them both games in a timely fashion without first strike and burn getting in the way.
How good was Rootborn Defenses overall with 23 lands (in a 61 card deck no-less)? Did you ever have mana issues, did you ever activate passage?
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