@DCIII Re:Void and TK
I think Void is just wrong in his read. That doesn't make him scum.
Sidenote: Looking for connections between players on Day 1 before we have bodies to work with is dangerous. The first lynch should be decided on one player's behavior and interactions analysed after the flip, not before.
Agreed that simply being wrong in a read doesn't make him scum - but he's your top town read and he's not just reading TK, he's actively defending him, the player who is your top scum read.
Can you explain to me what parts of his argument/defense of TK that you disagree with specifically and why you think he's wrong?
I also disagree that looking for connections is dangerous. Forming set conclusions based on connections without flips can be, but simply looking for them and thinking about what they could mean given various flip scenarios isn't. You just did the same re: Shockwave and Blue.
I think that TK's behavior is scummy whether or not you are scum and I don't think that Void's defense of TK adds up whether or not TK is scum.
Sorry FIGHTING. I was working on my car. Between grumpiness at the car, amusement at the discussion between Void and Guardman, and a small bit of reigning in my chaos, I could not post. I've been reading along however!
Why? Because I'm trolling FIGHTING? No, FIGHTING's got a town lean to me. But who can resist such fun
What's the town motivation behind trolling FIGHTING?
It keeps me from starting a gambit.
With absolutely no hyperbole, I can tell you that is a very good thing. My history with gambits make the Hindenburg and the Titanic look like fun accidents.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
From what I can tell, these are the current suspicions by player (let me know if anything is inaccurate). I don't have a good sense of either iRebel or Rezombied's suspicions.
<snip other players' stuff>
iRebel - ?
Rezombied - ?
@rezombied I brought this up yesterday - you're one of two players that hasn't really made any of his scum reads known, and you keep just asking questions and have said:
Reads to come soon. I have to get back in the game and ask some questions before I commit to anything.
in response to DCIII's list above. After asking all your questions, do you have any insight you are willing to share with us?
I'm also interested to know why you felt the need to ask for a votecount when you weren't voting and had not indicated any suspicion of a specific player. Are you maybe worried that one of your scumbuddies was going to be run up too quickly?
Please provide some non-question content in your next post.
@iRebel/@Idle Muse: Both of you too. You both stated your content would be coming some time today. I know it's early in the day, but I just want to bring it back up to hold you to it.
Agreed that simply being wrong in a read doesn't make him scum - but he's your top town read and he's not just reading TK, he's actively defending him, the player who is your top scum read.
Can you explain to me what parts of his argument/defense of TK that you disagree with specifically and why you think he's wrong?
He doesn't have a lot of arguments. It all comes down to two things:
* Void thinks what TK did was a pro move to catch scum
* Void thinks what TK did was too ballsy to come from scum
Pro scumcatching moves should out scum or clear town. I have the idea that people's opinions of me didn't shift that extremely after what TK pulled, making it quite clearly not a pro move.
TK wasn't widely accepted as town. Pulling a gambit like this as town only works if you have gained enough credit to be able to calm the situation down again when the dust you create settles. As scum however, it throws town into a chaos, which is always good for scum.
So instead of going through and creating a massive Wall of Text, I'm going to give a T/S list and commentary.
Asenion|Shockwave
Blue Electric
Cythare
DCIII
FIGHTING
Guardman
Idle Muse
iRebel
Paperblade|Rhand
Rezombied
TK-421
Void
FIGHTNING: Now my top town read. Has been making excellent posts, such as #153, #159, X. I specifically like #153 because she attempts to inject some new and original thought into the paperblade discussion.
IDLE MUSE AND GUARDMAN: I didn't like his post calling Guardman's vote OMGUS (#156). There wasn't anything OMGUS about Guardman's vote that I could discern, and I liked the way Guardman rebutted the OMGUS accusation (#164). Is it common for Guardman to just sit on information as he admits to doing in #164? My only game with him was Marvel where he didn't survive N1, iirc. I haven't liked a lot of Muse's posts this game, so he's lean-scum to me.
TK BAHA-421: Something about his interactions with FIGHTING on page 3 just strike me as not natural. I can't put my finger on it exactly. #169 is a prime example - that doesn't sound natural. #170 sounds almost as if he's taunting or mocking FIGHTING, maybe to try and fluster FIGHTING and spin it? Strikes me as scummy. #178, scummy.
PAPERBLADE|RHAND: #175 Srsly bro, it's Day one, and not even mid-Day, and you're mentioning Polyopticon? I'm good at being analytical but I was a cop variant and that tends to help a lot. I was also a non-factor in Day one (mostly), and given the last time you mentioned this in Astare, you were scum. IGMEOY.
#234 is decent stuff. Looks like scum hunting; I also liked his T/S list despite disagreements therein.
I'm placing PaperRhand as Neutral because Rhand has generally been decent so far, but his immediate mentioning of how I played in Dr. Polyopticon struck a suspicious nerve because Scum!Rhand did so, very quickly, in Empire of Astare.
CYTHARE: #186 is good; reading it makes me glad I wasn't the only one that found something unnatural about some of TKs posts. Brings up a good point re: TK #184. Not a lot else to comment on specifically. I still have Cy as lean-town.
DCIII: Town. Just read WWII Mafia Day 1, then read this game, and you'll see why.
VOID: Scum. Had me fooled, too. His interactions with DCIII on page 4 are terrible, and reek of a desperate attempt to try and save a buddy in trouble (kind of like I did in WWII Mafia with Void). TK already looked bad, and Void's only making him look worse. Guardman's #218 and #221 are also solid reasons why Void is scum.
SHOCKWAVE: Neutral. No content yet.
REZ: I had him as lean town before the Sox won the WS, but I'm downgrading it to Neutral because he's, well, done next to nothing since then and I dislike lurkers.
BLUE ELECTRIC: Not a lot of content since the Sox won; had her as lean town before and nothing has happened since then to change that.
=====
In the spirit of disclosure, for those who like to use meta, I have two newly completed games for your perusal: Empire of Astare (VT) and WWII Mafia (Mafia Goon).
=====
I believe TK is our man toDay and Void toMorrow.
Vote: TK.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
FIGHTNING: Now my top town read. Has been making excellent posts, such as #153, #159, X. I specifically like #153 because she attempts to inject some new and original thought into the paperblade discussion.
so about this
I'm sure you know what I'm going to ask.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
FIGHTNING: Now my top town read. Has been making excellent posts, such as #153, #159, X. I specifically like #153 because she attempts to inject some new and original thought into the paperblade discussion.
so about this
I'm sure you know what I'm going to ask.
About the X. It was a place marker for another post number and I forgot to change it. The post is #165.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
TK's recent posts especially the most recent re: messing with FIGHTING because it distracts him from pulling a gambit and the tone as a whole re-affirms my thought that he will flip mafia.
Can you explain to me what parts of his argument/defense of TK that you disagree with specifically and why you think he's wrong?
He doesn't have a lot of arguments. It all comes down to two things:
* Void thinks what TK did was a pro move to catch scum
* Void thinks what TK did was too ballsy to come from scum
Pro scumcatching moves should out scum or clear town. I have the idea that people's opinions of me didn't shift that extremely after what TK pulled, making it quite clearly not a pro move.
TK wasn't widely accepted as town. Pulling a gambit like this as town only works if you have gained enough credit to be able to calm the situation down again when the dust you create settles. As scum however, it throws town into a chaos, which is always good for scum.
What do you think about his actual defense of TK, not just the read (i.e. how he approached the votes on TK, when he did, his comment about being a better vig, etc)? What about my assessment of that situation do you disagree with and why?
Maybe a better way to get at what I'm asking is - why do you "hate" Guardman's attack on Void and not hate my attack on Void? How are you differentiating between those two positions and why do you find Guardman's stance scummy and yet you're leaning town with me?
From what I can tell, these are the current suspicions by player (let me know if anything is inaccurate). I don't have a good sense of either iRebel or Rezombied's suspicions.
<snip other players' stuff>
iRebel - ?
Rezombied - ?
@rezombied I brought this up yesterday - you're one of two players that hasn't really made any of his scum reads known, and you keep just asking questions and have said:
Reads to come soon. I have to get back in the game and ask some questions before I commit to anything.
in response to DCIII's list above. After asking all your questions, do you have any insight you are willing to share with us?
I'm also interested to know why you felt the need to ask for a votecount when you weren't voting and had not indicated any suspicion of a specific player. Are you maybe worried that one of your scumbuddies was going to be run up too quickly?
Please provide some non-question content in your next post.
I havn't had enough free time to track the votes so I want to know where the game is at. I'm not scum in this game.
Dcii: there is a huge difference between your behaviour and guardman's.
You went into discussion with Void about his TK read while Guardman just voted him for it.
Mister Shockwave, you may have overlooked this, but I did note to Miss FIGHTING that the premise of my argument against Mister Paperblade was NOT based on him being a gimmick - that was merely a facet of my argument, and to suggest otherwise is to draw a strawman to sidestep commenting on the actual case. I do not like what you are suggesting.
Mister Rhand, I do not appreciate you setting up a chain lynch on me in the event that Mister Shockwave is mafia-aligned. Additionally, I feel that your lack of a read on myself due to my identity is very uninspiring. I suggest you remedy this immediately, lest I sock it to you. ^^
Mister Rebel still needs to be toDay's lynch. The reads list he provides is also non-stellar. Mister Rebel, why do you connect Mister Muse and Mister Dog aside from the obvious dissonance between the two? Also, in regards to your "X" explanation in regards to Miss FIGHTING, I believe otherwise. You are clearly fabricating your reads and that is proof; it suggests to me that you decided a format - "Oh, I will point out some random posts by Miss FIGHTING that I 'like' because I am such a clever mafioso!" - and that you hastened to provide what might be construed as a reasonable reason for missing a post number there. I find it dubious that you just so happened to "know" 3 posts that you could reference off-the-bat to support your view of Miss FIGHTING. Finally, Mister Void is town - period. My reads on Mister Void are never to be questioned. Your read on Mister Rhand suggests to me that you two are mafia-aligned together.
Chainlynches don't work without a flip
Shockwave made a real tell there, and i don't want that info to get lost in case I am not around when/if he flips scum.
I really have no read on you yet. I need to see bodies or see real intent in your posts first, and neither has happened so far.
Why are you accusing me of setting up chainlynches to then tie me and iRebel together in he same post?
Mister Shockwave, you may have overlooked this, but I did note to Miss FIGHTING that the premise of my argument against Mister Paperblade was NOT based on him being a gimmick - that was merely a facet of my argument, and to suggest otherwise is to draw a strawman to sidestep commenting on the actual case. I do not like what you are suggesting.
Mister Rhand, I do not appreciate you setting up a chain lynch on me in the event that Mister Shockwave is mafia-aligned. Additionally, I feel that your lack of a read on myself due to my identity is very uninspiring. I suggest you remedy this immediately, lest I sock it to you. ^^
Mister Rebel still needs to be toDay's lynch. The reads list he provides is also non-stellar. Mister Rebel, why do you connect Mister Muse and Mister Dog aside from the obvious dissonance between the two? Also, in regards to your "X" explanation in regards to Miss FIGHTING, I believe otherwise. You are clearly fabricating your reads and that is proof; it suggests to me that you decided a format - "Oh, I will point out some random posts by Miss FIGHTING that I 'like' because I am such a clever mafioso!" - and that you hastened to provide what might be construed as a reasonable reason for missing a post number there. I find it dubious that you just so happened to "know" 3 posts that you could reference off-the-bat to support your view of Miss FIGHTING. Finally, Mister Void is town - period. My reads on Mister Void are never to be questioned. Your read on Mister Rhand suggests to me that you two are mafia-aligned together.
I "connected" them because that's how I formatted my post. If you have issues with the way I format thoughts and present them, I really don't have anything to say other than "oh well".
If you wish to read some sinister motivation from the fact I made an error and failed to correct it before I posted, again, knock yourself out. But it's a bad argument and you know it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I'm sorry I misunderstood the point of your arguement. To be honest, I still don't quite get it. But will drop it for now, because I feel to go into a full blown discussion on it now would only serve as a distraction to the matters at hand.
And I have to wonder what would be worse with Rhand's chain list, the fact that he suggested it, or the fact a "Derf whoops. Guess I was wrong," leaves him an easy out for the matter.
I'll also admit to not understanding the current iRebel wagon. Maybe a little explanation would help me see why it is a current topic.
Right now what I do have my sights on the Void/TK-421 issue. Something is off there. It makes little sense for a town player to call someone whose come under scrutiny as scum a scum hunting pro in my mind. I'm inclined to think a town-scum interaction is going on here leaning towards Void as both a more likely scum suspect and a better source of info into the matter post flip.
Also, if you're that confident that Void is town, will you explain to me where you disagree with my argument against him? It's most fully summarized in #244.
@Idle Muse: Obviously your either just skimming my posts or cherry picking, my t/s list was not currently up to date just a read through the end of page 8 (or at 15 posts per page for me post #120) as stated in the t/s list post.
So yes, my reads have changed, but I still have yet to get all the content of this game sorted out in my head. Probably doesn't help I'm active in six games (four on site, two off), but still intend to play and do my best here. No I have no completed games, but will update when they are.
And I find it very odd, for someone who was getting flagged as scum (TK-421) by multiple players to get a compliment as a scum hunting pro, by someone who is clearly experienced, that being based on players reactions towards him (Void). The move while some might see as a compliment reads to me as someone who dispite seeing a negative on others, knows something.
It raises a few questions and I feel Void's flip would be very informative.
I'm not against a TK lynch, It is my opinion that there is a possible better option.
----------------------
Also still working an up to date t/s list. The list posted was just one to a) try to show where my thoughts are going and b) have a jump off point for further ones.
TK BAHA-421: Something about his interactions with FIGHTING on page 3 just strike me as not natural. I can't put my finger on it exactly. #169 is a prime example - that doesn't sound natural. #170 sounds almost as if he's taunting or mocking FIGHTING, maybe to try and fluster FIGHTING and spin it? Strikes me as scummy. #178, scummy
Are you reading the thread?
I mean, I only did claim that I was taunting and mocking FIGHTING.
Question about your formatting. What were the markers for #153 and #159?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Why? Because I'm trolling FIGHTING? No, FIGHTING's got a town lean to me. But who can resist such fun
What's the town motivation behind trolling FIGHTING?
It keeps me from starting a gambit.
With absolutely no hyperbole, I can tell you that is a very good thing. My history with gambits make the Hindenburg and the Titanic look like fun accidents.
What's the town motivation behind trolling FIGHTING?
It keeps me from starting a gambit.
With absolutely no hyperbole, I can tell you that is a very good thing. My history with gambits make the Hindenburg and the Titanic look like fun accidents.
I don't understand this.
I have a nasty habit of playing the future of the game, rather than what's going on right now. If you look at my stats, I've had lots of PRs in my few games, and so I'll think about what I want to do with that power. Now, when I'm not indulging in my chaotic nature, I'm a completely manipulative person. But the thing is, my gambits tend to forget a crucial detail or be completely unstable. And then it blows up spectacularly in my face. Like in Modfia 7, where I basically ended up outting every single town PR in the game and should have been Most Valuable Mafia, even though I was town.
So, rather than think about the future, I think about the present, and just how silly FIGHTING is with her knees-bent running about. Wait, wrong pop culture reference. The worst damage I can do is get myself lynched but it seems in the process, we'll have LOTS of interactions to analyze after I'm dead.
Of course, with me, there's always a twist, and this one comes with my claim!
For Void is wrong! I am not town! MUWAHAHAHAHAHA! Of course, I'm not mafia either!
I'm actually MORBO, NEUTRAL ANNIHILATOR! My role is to kill two Human characters. If I do that, I fulfill my win-con and leave the game. If I fail (kill an alien), I become a Neutral Survivor. Now, to kill two humans, I can either be on their lynch, oooooooor, I can use my 1-shot vig.
Soooooo yeah. With everyone still alive, I'll gladly be at the town's services.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
I believe the role, would rather lynch scum and don't think TK's role has to be anti-town at this point.
TK, by being of service to the town would you be willing to let the town decide vig targets? Also, why did you point out that we'd get a lot of information from your flip if your win con requires you to live?
No one has refuted my Void argument, at least in any specific or satisfactory way, and with this TK development, I think there's more to understand there. Namely, Void, did you know anything about TK's role in the game and, if so, what?
Unvote
I think there's much more to discuss at the moment but right now my vote can be considered to be on iRebel who has not made his case look any better since his return and was my most confident read prior to this whole TK/Void situation.
I would rather not take my chances with a claimed Neutral with a killing ability. We have plenty of options for a Day 2 lynch, and Night will likely help us close off some more misleading avenues.
As it stands, the people that I am willing to lynch (barring Mister TK for his claim) are:
iRebel
Idle Muse
Shockwave07
Cythare
Rhand
Cythare and Shockwave are afterthoughts, though, as I am particularly certain that any members of the mafia are in the other three I listed.
I would rather not take my chances with a claimed Neutral with a killing ability. We have plenty of options for a Day 2 lynch, and Night will likely help us close off some more misleading avenues.
As it stands, the people that I am willing to lynch (barring Mister TK for his claim) are:
iRebel
Idle Muse
Shockwave07
Cythare
Rhand
Cythare and Shockwave are afterthoughts, though, as I am particularly certain that any members of the mafia are in the other three I listed.
What could go wrong? Rhand and dc3 (603?) seem to think keeping him around is a good idea.
TK, by being of service to the town would you be willing to let the town decide vig targets? Also, why did you point out that we'd get a lot of information from your flip if your win con requires you to live?
Yes. Without any claimed humans, my guess is as good as yours who is an alien and who isn't. I could wait for a claim (mafia would obviously have to claim a human to avoid me, meaning they could run into a CC), but that would be antithetic to me staying alive, since me pleasing the town means I can at least try to fulfill the secondary win of Survivor.
As for your second question, because whether I've fulfilled my win-con or not, it's true. Does that mean I actually wanted the flip? No. But it's still true.
I would rather not take my chances with a claimed Neutral with a killing ability. We have plenty of options for a Day 2 lynch, and Night will likely help us close off some more misleading avenues.
As it stands, the people that I am willing to lynch (barring Mister TK for his claim) are:
iRebel
Idle Muse
Shockwave07
Cythare
Rhand
Cythare and Shockwave are afterthoughts, though, as I am particularly certain that any members of the mafia are in the other three I listed.
Town lost empire of Astarte because they lynched the claimed neutral with killing ability D1.
If we can guide his kill to help us poe the game, then why should we not do so?
If he hits human, we can help him fulfil his wincon. If he hits alien, all we need to do is lynch him before he can win the game with scum.
me pleasing the town means I can at least try to fulfill the secondary win of Survivor.
You can only fulfill your secondary win con if the mafia win. Your secondary win con runs counter to the town win con.
Unvote Vote TK-421
The secondary yes, but we can help him with his primary wincon without hurting town. Are we seriously going to throw away a vigshot and waste a lynch on someone that will just leave the game?
Like I said, as soon as his first wincon fails we should lynch him, but toDay that is not (yet) the case.
me pleasing the town means I can at least try to fulfill the secondary win of Survivor.
You can only fulfill your secondary win con if the mafia win. Your secondary win con runs counter to the town win con.
Unvote Vote TK-421
The secondary yes, but we can help him with his primary wincon without hurting town. Are we seriously going to throw away a vigshot and waste a lynch on someone that will just leave the game?
Like I said, as soon as his first wincon fails we should lynch him, but toDay that is not (yet) the case.
He has no incentive to help town.
If we don't lynch him and end up lynching a human today, he can win tonight. As long as he hits a human he wins, if he misses he's lost anyway so there's no reason for him to try to hit scum.
That's easy to solve:
* We don't allow him to be on the lynch wagon toDay
* He has to kill who we say he kills or he gets lynched toMorrow
* from toMorrow on, he gets one shot to be on the correct wagon
Agreed that simply being wrong in a read doesn't make him scum - but he's your top town read and he's not just reading TK, he's actively defending him, the player who is your top scum read.
Can you explain to me what parts of his argument/defense of TK that you disagree with specifically and why you think he's wrong?
I also disagree that looking for connections is dangerous. Forming set conclusions based on connections without flips can be, but simply looking for them and thinking about what they could mean given various flip scenarios isn't. You just did the same re: Shockwave and Blue.
I think that TK's behavior is scummy whether or not you are scum and I don't think that Void's defense of TK adds up whether or not TK is scum.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
It keeps me from starting a gambit.
With absolutely no hyperbole, I can tell you that is a very good thing. My history with gambits make the Hindenburg and the Titanic look like fun accidents.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
@rezombied I brought this up yesterday - you're one of two players that hasn't really made any of his scum reads known, and you keep just asking questions and have said:
in response to DCIII's list above. After asking all your questions, do you have any insight you are willing to share with us?
I'm also interested to know why you felt the need to ask for a votecount when you weren't voting and had not indicated any suspicion of a specific player. Are you maybe worried that one of your scumbuddies was going to be run up too quickly?
Please provide some non-question content in your next post.
@iRebel/@Idle Muse: Both of you too. You both stated your content would be coming some time today. I know it's early in the day, but I just want to bring it back up to hold you to it.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
He doesn't have a lot of arguments. It all comes down to two things:
* Void thinks what TK did was a pro move to catch scum
* Void thinks what TK did was too ballsy to come from scum
Pro scumcatching moves should out scum or clear town. I have the idea that people's opinions of me didn't shift that extremely after what TK pulled, making it quite clearly not a pro move.
TK wasn't widely accepted as town. Pulling a gambit like this as town only works if you have gained enough credit to be able to calm the situation down again when the dust you create settles. As scum however, it throws town into a chaos, which is always good for scum.
Asenion|Shockwave
Blue Electric
Cythare
DCIII
FIGHTING
Guardman
Idle Muse
iRebel
Paperblade|Rhand
Rezombied
TK-421
Void
FIGHTNING: Now my top town read. Has been making excellent posts, such as #153, #159, X. I specifically like #153 because she attempts to inject some new and original thought into the paperblade discussion.
IDLE MUSE AND GUARDMAN: I didn't like his post calling Guardman's vote OMGUS (#156). There wasn't anything OMGUS about Guardman's vote that I could discern, and I liked the way Guardman rebutted the OMGUS accusation (#164). Is it common for Guardman to just sit on information as he admits to doing in #164? My only game with him was Marvel where he didn't survive N1, iirc. I haven't liked a lot of Muse's posts this game, so he's lean-scum to me.
TK
BAHA-421: Something about his interactions with FIGHTING on page 3 just strike me as not natural. I can't put my finger on it exactly. #169 is a prime example - that doesn't sound natural. #170 sounds almost as if he's taunting or mocking FIGHTING, maybe to try and fluster FIGHTING and spin it? Strikes me as scummy. #178, scummy.PAPERBLADE|RHAND: #175 Srsly bro, it's Day one, and not even mid-Day, and you're mentioning Polyopticon? I'm good at being analytical but I was a cop variant and that tends to help a lot. I was also a non-factor in Day one (mostly), and given the last time you mentioned this in Astare, you were scum. IGMEOY.
#234 is decent stuff. Looks like scum hunting; I also liked his T/S list despite disagreements therein.
I'm placing PaperRhand as Neutral because Rhand has generally been decent so far, but his immediate mentioning of how I played in Dr. Polyopticon struck a suspicious nerve because Scum!Rhand did so, very quickly, in Empire of Astare.
CYTHARE: #186 is good; reading it makes me glad I wasn't the only one that found something unnatural about some of TKs posts. Brings up a good point re: TK #184. Not a lot else to comment on specifically. I still have Cy as lean-town.
DCIII: Town. Just read WWII Mafia Day 1, then read this game, and you'll see why.
VOID: Scum. Had me fooled, too. His interactions with DCIII on page 4 are terrible, and reek of a desperate attempt to try and save a buddy in trouble (kind of like I did in WWII Mafia with Void). TK already looked bad, and Void's only making him look worse. Guardman's #218 and #221 are also solid reasons why Void is scum.
SHOCKWAVE: Neutral. No content yet.
REZ: I had him as lean town before the Sox won the WS, but I'm downgrading it to Neutral because he's, well, done next to nothing since then and I dislike lurkers.
BLUE ELECTRIC: Not a lot of content since the Sox won; had her as lean town before and nothing has happened since then to change that.
=====
In the spirit of disclosure, for those who like to use meta, I have two newly completed games for your perusal: Empire of Astare (VT) and WWII Mafia (Mafia Goon).
=====
I believe TK is our man toDay and Void toMorrow.
Vote: TK.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
@GMan:
I will respond later today sop long as work doesn't get in the way.
I'm sure you know what I'm going to ask.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
About the X. It was a place marker for another post number and I forgot to change it. The post is #165.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
TK's recent posts especially the most recent re: messing with FIGHTING because it distracts him from pulling a gambit and the tone as a whole re-affirms my thought that he will flip mafia.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you think about his actual defense of TK, not just the read (i.e. how he approached the votes on TK, when he did, his comment about being a better vig, etc)? What about my assessment of that situation do you disagree with and why?
Maybe a better way to get at what I'm asking is - why do you "hate" Guardman's attack on Void and not hate my attack on Void? How are you differentiating between those two positions and why do you find Guardman's stance scummy and yet you're leaning town with me?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
I havn't had enough free time to track the votes so I want to know where the game is at. I'm not scum in this game.
+
rezombied
FIGHTING
---Town
Cythare
BlueElectric
Guardman
DCIII
Idle Muse
Shockwave07
Rhand
---Scum
Void
TK-421
iRebel
-
Vote: iRebel for lining up lynches in his t/s list post.
Would you please give reasoning for T/S list.
You went into discussion with Void about his TK read while Guardman just voted him for it.
Mister Rhand, I do not appreciate you setting up a chain lynch on me in the event that Mister Shockwave is mafia-aligned. Additionally, I feel that your lack of a read on myself due to my identity is very uninspiring. I suggest you remedy this immediately, lest I sock it to you. ^^
Mister Rebel still needs to be toDay's lynch. The reads list he provides is also non-stellar. Mister Rebel, why do you connect Mister Muse and Mister Dog aside from the obvious dissonance between the two? Also, in regards to your "X" explanation in regards to Miss FIGHTING, I believe otherwise. You are clearly fabricating your reads and that is proof; it suggests to me that you decided a format - "Oh, I will point out some random posts by Miss FIGHTING that I 'like' because I am such a clever mafioso!" - and that you hastened to provide what might be construed as a reasonable reason for missing a post number there. I find it dubious that you just so happened to "know" 3 posts that you could reference off-the-bat to support your view of Miss FIGHTING. Finally, Mister Void is town - period. My reads on Mister Void are never to be questioned. Your read on Mister Rhand suggests to me that you two are mafia-aligned together.
Shockwave made a real tell there, and i don't want that info to get lost in case I am not around when/if he flips scum.
I really have no read on you yet. I need to see bodies or see real intent in your posts first, and neither has happened so far.
Why are you accusing me of setting up chainlynches to then tie me and iRebel together in he same post?
I "connected" them because that's how I formatted my post. If you have issues with the way I format thoughts and present them, I really don't have anything to say other than "oh well".
If you wish to read some sinister motivation from the fact I made an error and failed to correct it before I posted, again, knock yourself out. But it's a bad argument and you know it.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
And I have to wonder what would be worse with Rhand's chain list, the fact that he suggested it, or the fact a "Derf whoops. Guess I was wrong," leaves him an easy out for the matter.
I'll also admit to not understanding the current iRebel wagon. Maybe a little explanation would help me see why it is a current topic.
Right now what I do have my sights on the Void/TK-421 issue. Something is off there. It makes little sense for a town player to call someone whose come under scrutiny as scum a scum hunting pro in my mind. I'm inclined to think a town-scum interaction is going on here leaning towards Void as both a more likely scum suspect and a better source of info into the matter post flip.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Also, if you're that confident that Void is town, will you explain to me where you disagree with my argument against him? It's most fully summarized in #244.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
So yes, my reads have changed, but I still have yet to get all the content of this game sorted out in my head. Probably doesn't help I'm active in six games (four on site, two off), but still intend to play and do my best here. No I have no completed games, but will update when they are.
And I find it very odd, for someone who was getting flagged as scum (TK-421) by multiple players to get a compliment as a scum hunting pro, by someone who is clearly experienced, that being based on players reactions towards him (Void). The move while some might see as a compliment reads to me as someone who dispite seeing a negative on others, knows something.
It raises a few questions and I feel Void's flip would be very informative.
I'm not against a TK lynch, It is my opinion that there is a possible better option.
----------------------
Also still working an up to date t/s list. The list posted was just one to a) try to show where my thoughts are going and b) have a jump off point for further ones.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Are you reading the thread?
I mean, I only did claim that I was taunting and mocking FIGHTING.
Question about your formatting. What were the markers for #153 and #159?
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
"You need to get rid of that thing!"
"Nope. Figure out how to fix it."
"There's no time!"
"There's always time for love."
"Robo-puppy will self destruct in T-47 seconds."
_____________________
TK-421 (5): Rhand, DCIII, Cythare, FIGHTING, iRebel
iRebel (3): Void, Blue Electric, Rezombied
Void (1): Guardman
Shockwave (1): Idle Muse
Not Voting: TK-421, Shockwave07
I don't understand this.
I have a nasty habit of playing the future of the game, rather than what's going on right now. If you look at my stats, I've had lots of PRs in my few games, and so I'll think about what I want to do with that power. Now, when I'm not indulging in my chaotic nature, I'm a completely manipulative person. But the thing is, my gambits tend to forget a crucial detail or be completely unstable. And then it blows up spectacularly in my face. Like in Modfia 7, where I basically ended up outting every single town PR in the game and should have been Most Valuable Mafia, even though I was town.
So, rather than think about the future, I think about the present, and just how silly FIGHTING is with her knees-bent running about. Wait, wrong pop culture reference. The worst damage I can do is get myself lynched but it seems in the process, we'll have LOTS of interactions to analyze after I'm dead.
Of course, with me, there's always a twist, and this one comes with my claim!
For Void is wrong! I am not town! MUWAHAHAHAHAHA! Of course, I'm not mafia either!
I'm actually MORBO, NEUTRAL ANNIHILATOR! My role is to kill two Human characters. If I do that, I fulfill my win-con and leave the game. If I fail (kill an alien), I become a Neutral Survivor. Now, to kill two humans, I can either be on their lynch, oooooooor, I can use my 1-shot vig.
Soooooo yeah. With everyone still alive, I'll gladly be at the town's services.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
unvote. We'll have to deal with him sooner or later, but scum takes priority for now.
vote Guardman
Either way I know if he tried to kill me I could laugh from the afterlife about his poor choice of target!
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
TK, by being of service to the town would you be willing to let the town decide vig targets? Also, why did you point out that we'd get a lot of information from your flip if your win con requires you to live?
No one has refuted my Void argument, at least in any specific or satisfactory way, and with this TK development, I think there's more to understand there. Namely, Void, did you know anything about TK's role in the game and, if so, what?
Unvote
I think there's much more to discuss at the moment but right now my vote can be considered to be on iRebel who has not made his case look any better since his return and was my most confident read prior to this whole TK/Void situation.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Or only when your shot hitq a
Do you think he's scum or do you think we should be voting for the claim, and why?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
As it stands, the people that I am willing to lynch (barring Mister TK for his claim) are:
iRebel
Idle Muse
Shockwave07
Cythare
Rhand
Cythare and Shockwave are afterthoughts, though, as I am particularly certain that any members of the mafia are in the other three I listed.
What could go wrong? Rhand and dc3 (603?) seem to think keeping him around is a good idea.
Yes. Without any claimed humans, my guess is as good as yours who is an alien and who isn't. I could wait for a claim (mafia would obviously have to claim a human to avoid me, meaning they could run into a CC), but that would be antithetic to me staying alive, since me pleasing the town means I can at least try to fulfill the secondary win of Survivor.
As for your second question, because whether I've fulfilled my win-con or not, it's true. Does that mean I actually wanted the flip? No. But it's still true.
Either. It's the reason I have the secondary Survivor win-con.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Town lost empire of Astarte because they lynched the claimed neutral with killing ability D1.
If we can guide his kill to help us poe the game, then why should we not do so?
If he hits human, we can help him fulfil his wincon. If he hits alien, all we need to do is lynch him before he can win the game with scum.
If he hits human, we don't have to waste a lynch on him.
If he hits alien, we lynch him.
I see no reason not to use his vigshot for town purposes toNight.
Miss Blue: why the immediate lynch reaction?
In empire of Astarte, lynching the claimed neutral with a vigshot was clearly the wrong Day 1 choice and ended in a scum win.
You can only fulfill your secondary win con if the mafia win. Your secondary win con runs counter to the town win con.
Unvote
Vote TK-421
What makes you think that?
The secondary yes, but we can help him with his primary wincon without hurting town. Are we seriously going to throw away a vigshot and waste a lynch on someone that will just leave the game?
Like I said, as soon as his first wincon fails we should lynch him, but toDay that is not (yet) the case.
He has no incentive to help town.
If we don't lynch him and end up lynching a human today, he can win tonight. As long as he hits a human he wins, if he misses he's lost anyway so there's no reason for him to try to hit scum.
* We don't allow him to be on the lynch wagon toDay
* He has to kill who we say he kills or he gets lynched toMorrow
* from toMorrow on, he gets one shot to be on the correct wagon