Really Antny? Look at what DCIII posted. Pay attention people.
I really did think it was a serious vote for MirrorEntity, and only unvoted to stop ME self hammering and taking the lynch away from town. I get that Void is messing with us but at this point he's caught and all he's really doing is trying to screw with us, so outside of votes I'm ignoring everything he's saying.
Only other people that I could really see so far are DK, TMCT, and AE - but I feel better about DK and think of these three more as "if other things stop making sense" reads.
If ME is somehow not mafia then I suppose it could be BE but I don't think that's likely. Seriously doubt that both ME and BE are scum together and actually am just reading BE as more new overall than malicious at this point.
Rhand and Nny are almost surefire town, IMO, as there was no reason to push that Void wagon.
Glenn resisted the urge to vomit again. He and Rick grunted convincingly as they shuffled slowly through the crowded streets of Atlanta, dripping with walker guts. Their disguise seemed to be working; the walkers were largely ignoring their still-living companions. Only a few more blocks until Rick and Glenn would reach the moving van. Only a few more blocks before they could rescue the others. Suddenly, a loud crash grabbed their attention, followed by a scream. The sounds had come from the department store. Glenn turned as if to check on the others, but Rick grabbed his arm, an intense expression in his eyes. Rick pulled Glenn in close and began whispering urgently in hushed tones.
"Look, I know you're worried about the others. I get that. But if you go back in there now, none of you will make it back out."
"What do you expect me to do, let them get eaten?"
"You can't help anyone if you're dead."
With that, Rick continued to shamble toward the van. Glenn turned one last time to look at the mob of walkers pouring into the building, then followed Rick, a tear running down his grimy cheek.
Andrea screamed. She hadn't expected the walkers to break through the glass doors so quickly. She pulled out her gun, pointed at the incoming mob, and pulled the trigger. Nothing. She began to panic, trying again and again to fire at the crowd. Nothing. It wasn't until the walkers were on top of her, tearing into her flesh, that she remembered Rick's advice.
"Next time, though, take the safety off. It won't shoot otherwise."
Void has been lynched.
He was Andrea (Mafia Goon).
Night One will end no later than 11:59PM EST Monday, November 25th.
Please send in Night actions as soon as possible and inform me if you have an optional Night action you do not wish to take.
Day broke over a silent city. Then, a single gunshot echoed across the concrete jungle. Rick ran for the moving van and barely managed to get inside before he was overwhelmed by walkers. He revved the engine and made a break for it. Turning on the short-wave radio in the van, he tried to find the frequency the others had used on the rooftop. As he approached the department store, he noticed how many walkers were still fighting to get inside, desperately clawing at each other in an attempt to taste human flesh. He thought of Andrea. He gritted his teeth, still struggling to get in contact with the others. He refused to give up.
mirrorentity and dkingsland967 have been killed.
mirrorentity was Walker (Town Vanilla).
dkingsland967 was Walker (Town Vanilla).
It is now Day Two.
With 9 alive, it's 5 votes to lynch.
Day Two will end no later than 11:59PM EST Monday, December 16th.
Good vig shot (presumably). I'll be able to focus Today instead of (probably) tunneling ME. Rereading now; Antny is my primary suspect as it stands now.
It's not Antny. Any and all interactions with Void around the #231-#237 mark should eliminate him as a suspect - Void wouldn't have gotten into such a squabble like that with a teammate after his trist with fulcrum in WWII with me in this game - he also wouldn't have made nice with him like he did in #237.
Also don't think it's BE as I don't think he'd so adamantly say that he wants to lynch ME over Void so many times. Doesn't seem like his style if he were scum and I just read him as town at this point.
Rhand and Nny are town.
Shockwave is playing in way too many games, but I think he'd have actually been more active and paying more attention if he were scum. Won't rule him out, but don't think he's likely.
The scum team is almost assuredly, IMO, within AE, TMCT, and Kraj - with Kraj being a distant third and AE being my strongest read.
Case on AE (can make it in more detail if needed later):
Early game placed his vote on ME right away and then almost immediately took it off and placed it on Rhand - furthering suspicion on ME while probably not trying to push the wagon too quickly, maybe while someone else on his team was already on it.
Posts seem to have a lot of knowledge about players in the game. One example is that he's initially very confident in defending BE, at one point flatly saying that all three votes on him were terrible. Posts comments throughout the game toward both ME and BE designed to appear helpful and likely to show that he knows that they're town. Not likely to come from someone who is still trying to figure out if those players are scum or not.
Then, willing to move on either the ME or BE case later on while not pressing the Void case, attempting to classify it as meta and saying that he's been burned that way before. Also, seemingly unaware that there was more to the case.
Slowed on giving his read of Void despite all of the chatter around it - waited to join the wagon until momentum had clearly shifted to him. Also slowed on posting around this point of the game - I think he was waiting to see if momentum was going to shift to Void and if he needed to bus.
Those are the main things but can go into more detail with posts to point some of this stuff out, if necessary.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
Will also get my thoughts on TMCT out there sometime tomorrow but I think that he kept off of the Void wagon while still making it clear (again, once Void momentum had reached critical mass) that he suspected him (and the wording around some of that was suspicious to me as well) but also tried a few times to shift momentum back to ME.
Re-read the game and lemmeknowhatchathink. I feel very confident in this.
Who says it couldn't have been the other way around with the vig and NK TMCT?
It could have been, but with M_E being the #2 suspect yesterday it's an odd for the mafia kill.
A_E is also my number one suspect.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
DCIII, Rhand, Shockwave, and NNY all pushed Void when it would have been very easy to lynch M_E. A very aggressive bussing is possible, but I think it's more likely the scum are among the remaining players.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Who says it couldn't have been the other way around with the vig and NK TMCT?
I just had a flash of me asking this same question as scum in Presidential.
Anyway, yeah, it could've been, but barring redirect shenanigans (I'm 97% sure AI wouldn't put a redirecter in a Basic anyway) the picture we're seeing is pretty clear.
DCIII, Rhand, Shockwave, and NNY all pushed Void when it would have been very easy to lynch M_E. A very aggressive bussing is possible, but I think it's more likely the scum are among the remaining players.
I strongly disagree with this line of reasoning. I've given up on it ever since I applied it to wrongly clear scum-ZDS in Meg's Avatars (a better mafiaoso than these four players who also only needed that one mislynch to win the game on the spot).
DCIII, Rhand, and Nny are probably town, but for other reasons. Shockwave, on the other hand, doesn't look any better just because he pushed Void.
Who says it couldn't have been the other way around with the vig and NK TMCT?
Which is hardly the most pressing issue (unless you have reason to beleive that ME could have been the NK, in which case let's hear it). I want these supposedly reads or whatever we spent days waiting for at the end of Day 1 already.
I don't believe his exchanges with me on Day 1 were genuine, and he left a lot of my questions answered unsatisfactorily.
I might take a look at what DCIII is talking about in regards to the interactions with Void, but I think this is where my vote needs to be for the time being.
DCIII, Rhand, Shockwave, and NNY all pushed Void when it would have been very easy to lynch M_E. A very aggressive bussing is possible, but I think it's more likely the scum are among the remaining players.
Votecount analysis
------------------
My reads are colored green for probably town and orange for probably scum. Leaning reads remain black.
Things that stand out to me in italics.
Vote Count 1
Burning Earth (3): Rhand, dkingsland967, mirrorentity
mirrorentity (2): Shockwave07, The Most Curious Thing
dkingsland967 (2): DCIII, Kraj
The Most Curious Thing (1): Antny223
DCIII (1): Void
Not Voting (3): Archmage Eternal, Burning Earth, Nny
There's no scum on the B_E wagon.
Scum!Void is voting DCII
There should be scum to be found on the ME and/or dkings wagons.
At least 2 wagons on town. I would be surprised if there's a not-voter left among scum in this situation, making Nny probably town.
If B_E is scum, I would assume Void's vote to be the only busvote. The third scum should be found on ME's or my wagon in that case.
Vote Count 4
Void (4): Rhand, Nny, DCIII, Kraj
Burning Earth (2): mirrorentity, Void
mirrorentity (2): The Most Curious Thing, Burning Earth
Not Voting (4): Archmage Eternal, Antny223, dkingsland967, Shockwave07
We have a wagon on scum. Purely based on vote analysis, I would assume Kraj or DCIII to be a bus vote. DCIII seems unlikely behaviourally. I am going to reread Kraj to check if that's a true possibility.
TMCT's vote never moved away from ME. Antny removed himself from the votecount and AE and B_E switched to Void.
General conclusions:
--------------------
The most worrysome voters seem to be B_E, Antny, AE and Kraj.
TMCT would worry me too, but I think tunnelling is his town meta.
B_E: He sticks to ME the whole time until he can bring Void to hammer range.
Antny: If my TMCT conclusion is correct, he has had his vote on 3 different townies and never on scum.
AE: Exact same voting pattern as Antny, with the only difference that he was on the Void wagon with the lynch.
Kraj: went from town to town to Void, with the last voteswitch exactly when I would expect a busvote on that wagon.
I also want to add that Shockwave hasn't been active enough to say anything about his voting pattern.
I would say only one of Kraj, AE, and Burning Earth is scum -- I highly doubt all three scum would be on a scum wagon when there was a viable town wagon. It's also possible that the one scum is Rhand, DCIII, and Nny, but they're all circumstantially/behaviorally town.
The other scum is likely from those staying off of Void (and out of the fray in the final vote count): Antny and Shockwave.
I remembered him jumping off the Burning_Earth wagon and onto the Void wagon, like you did. He actually just unvoted B_E in #272 without placing another vote. My bad.
Yes, I agree. Antny is probably our best bet for toDay.
If he flips scum, AE seems to be a huge candidate for partner. Look in the votecounts how they follow each other around.
I didn't have scumvibes from AE though, so I'll have to reread him.
Vote: Antny
That actually isn't true, your following the votecounts (which were fairly infrequent) but you ignore the fact that Burning_Earth was the main person I had a vote on in Day 1. At no point did AE vote Burning_Earth. While I appreciate your attempt at vote analyse you need go back and really check the voting to get it right. I don't mind you tunnelling into me but I want the facts to be accurate!
The TMCT was RVS (i.e. useless in analyse terms) and not voting Void was simply not wanting to end the game too quickly (see my unvote on MirrorEntity).
I don't believe his exchanges with me on Day 1 were genuine, and he left a lot of my questions answered unsatisfactorily.
I might take a look at what DCIII is talking about in regards to the interactions with Void, but I think this is where my vote needs to be for the time being.
I would also accept a lynch on TMCT.
I feel like need to gear up for a fight with you (I have a number issues I want to return to from day 1) but I'm feeling tired after work today. Your other targets strike me as odd. Can you remind me again why you don't like BE for a lynch today?
So AE is not your partner when you flip scum. Thanks for clearing that up.
Is it Kraj?
The flaw in your question is the false assumption. But nice way gloss over your mistakes in post 462. I was naive enough to believe I might get an apology out of you.
So AE is not your partner when you flip scum. Thanks for clearing that up.
Is it Kraj?
The flaw in your question is the false assumption. But nice way gloss over your mistakes in post 462. I was naive enough to believe I might get an apology out of you.
Well you attacked my logic with good arguments. The thing is that you didn't attack the read on you but the connection between you and AE.
You took me wanting to look into him when you flip scum as personal, which imo is telling of your own alignment.
I would say only one of Kraj, AE, and Burning Earth is scum -- I highly doubt all three scum would be on a scum wagon when there was a viable town wagon. It's also possible that the one scum is Rhand, DCIII, and Nny, but they're all circumstantially/behaviorally town.
The other scum is likely from those staying off of Void (and out of the fray in the final vote count): Antny and Shockwave.
I agree with your thought that it seems less likely that all three scum would be on Void's wagon with the ME wagon being viable (though not something I'd rule out altogether).
You also also fall into the category of players staying off of Void, though.
@Rhand - read the exchange with Void and Antny that culminates in #237 (that initially tipped you off to Void). Do you think that Void would be apologetic like that to a scum buddy? I don't. I read that as self-consciousness about his back and forth and extending an olive branch to a townie. I also don't think he'd have had that interaction as a whole with a scum buddy after his recent WWII experience and my involvement there.
Let me know if you think that is a viable play from a scum Void to a scum Antny - I just don't see it.
Well you attacked my logic with good arguments. The thing is that you didn't attack the read on you but the connection between you and AE.
Actually I did attack your logic and since there's only one paragraph I am disappointed your so heavily focused on so-called scumslips you missed them. Did you really think the first and last sentences were defences of AE?
Since I need to elaborate further, your only comments was I only vote Town and I got off the ME wagon at the end. Yet you read BE as likely scum and then miss my vote on him out. As for the second issue I already explained that here.
You took me wanting to look into him when you flip scum as personal, which imo is telling of your own alignment.
Again I never actually said this but you made this leap regardless. What I'm telling you is I'm Town, and thus not scum buddies with AE, Kraj or anybody. You can look into any other players at will but the results won't matter without context.
Good vig shot (presumably). I'll be able to focus Today instead of (probably) tunneling ME. Rereading now; Antny is my primary suspect as it stands now.
I disagree. The only good thing about it is that it keeps the distraction of arguing over his lynch away. Void cleared ME at the end of the day.
It's not Antny. Any and all interactions with Void around the #231-#237 mark should eliminate him as a suspect - Void wouldn't have gotten into such a squabble like that with a teammate after his trist with fulcrum in WWII with me in this game - he also wouldn't have made nice with him like he did in #237.
Will have to go look through and see when the votes started, but could this be a reason why Void basically gave up?
Also don't think it's BE as I don't think he'd so adamantly say that he wants to lynch ME over Void so many times. Doesn't seem like his style if he were scum and I just read him as town at this point.
Can you say what his style is? ME was close to being lynched, could be an eager scum trying to nail down the lynch and keep it away from a *** buddy. I can definitely see a scum act this way.
Rhand and Nny are town.
I agree
Shockwave is playing in way too many games, but I think he'd have actually been more active and paying more attention if he were scum. Won't rule him out, but don't think he's likely.
To say he'd be more active as scum I disagree with. I'm not familiar with Shockwave but some players hate being scum and their posts show it in activity levels or post content.
Early game placed his vote on ME right away and then almost immediately took it off and placed it on Rhand - furthering suspicion on ME while probably not trying to push the wagon too quickly, maybe while someone else on his team was already on it.
If I was scum I would have stayed and pushed for MEs lynch. It was almost a free pass on how the scum vibes were coming off ME. Even later on when some were wavering on who to lynch between ME and Void. As Voids scum buddy I would have pushed for ME without fear of and backlash.
Posts seem to have a lot of knowledge about players in the game. One example is that he's initially very confident in defending BE, at one point flatly saying that all three votes on him were terrible. Posts comments throughout the game toward both ME and BE designed to appear helpful and likely to show that he knows that they're town. Not likely to come from someone who is still trying to figure out if those players are scum or not.
Those three vote were horrible and I challenge anyone to debate me on that. (I'm going to start my reread with them now that you bring it up).
There's nothing designed, I'm trying to be helpful in weeding out the scum. You say that throughout the game I say or point toward ME being town. I don't recall that. I believe I came to thinking ME town late in the day after Voids play.
Then, willing to move on either the ME or BE case later on while not pressing the Void case, attempting to classify it as meta and saying that he's been burned that way before. Also, seemingly unaware that there was more to the case.
Your throwing me off here. You say I'm pointing toward BE and ME as town but that I willing to lynch them? If that's the case then I should be the lynch as that's horrible town play.
Slowed on giving his read of Void despite all of the chatter around it - waited to join the wagon until momentum had clearly shifted to him. Also slowed on posting around this point of the game - I think he was waiting to see if momentum was going to shift to Void and if he needed to bus.
If I wanted town cred I would have jumped on early when the first few votes happened. Like I said earlier, if I was Voids bud I would have pushed hard for ME as that would have been an easy lynch.
Kraj: went from town to town to Void, with the last voteswitch exactly when I would expect a busvote on that wagon.
This is telling.
I also want to add that Shockwave hasn't been active enough to say anything about his voting pattern.
Dosen't it say something that he ignored the Void wagon and tried for the ME lynch? Looks like he went where the bigger wagon was at the time between ME and BE but stayed off of Voids wagon.
Not a huge fan of AE's last post. I'll explain why maybe tomorrow. I also dislike that Antny has refused to engage me - he has instead opted to attack Rhand's argument, ignoring my push.
It's not Antny. Any and all interactions with Void around the #231-#237 mark should eliminate him as a suspect - Void wouldn't have gotten into such a squabble like that with a teammate after his trist with fulcrum in WWII with me in this game - he also wouldn't have made nice with him like he did in #237.
Also don't think it's BE as I don't think he'd so adamantly say that he wants to lynch ME over Void so many times. Doesn't seem like his style if he were scum and I just read him as town at this point.
Rhand and Nny are town.
Shockwave is playing in way too many games, but I think he'd have actually been more active and paying more attention if he were scum. Won't rule him out, but don't think he's likely.
The scum team is almost assuredly, IMO, within AE, TMCT, and Kraj - with Kraj being a distant third and AE being my strongest read.
Case on AE (can make it in more detail if needed later):
Early game placed his vote on ME right away and then almost immediately took it off and placed it on Rhand - furthering suspicion on ME while probably not trying to push the wagon too quickly, maybe while someone else on his team was already on it.
Posts seem to have a lot of knowledge about players in the game. One example is that he's initially very confident in defending BE, at one point flatly saying that all three votes on him were terrible. Posts comments throughout the game toward both ME and BE designed to appear helpful and likely to show that he knows that they're town. Not likely to come from someone who is still trying to figure out if those players are scum or not.
Then, willing to move on either the ME or BE case later on while not pressing the Void case, attempting to classify it as meta and saying that he's been burned that way before. Also, seemingly unaware that there was more to the case.
Slowed on giving his read of Void despite all of the chatter around it - waited to join the wagon until momentum had clearly shifted to him. Also slowed on posting around this point of the game - I think he was waiting to see if momentum was going to shift to Void and if he needed to bus.
Those are the main things but can go into more detail with posts to point some of this stuff out, if necessary.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
Will also get my thoughts on TMCT out there sometime tomorrow but I think that he kept off of the Void wagon while still making it clear (again, once Void momentum had reached critical mass) that he suspected him (and the wording around some of that was suspicious to me as well) but also tried a few times to shift momentum back to ME.
Re-read the game and lemmeknowhatchathink. I feel very confident in this.
Each sentence is in response to a paragraph.
1. I think antny is town, yes. My gut is still saying he's scum, but my brain thinks he's town.
2. Well, I know i'm town...
3. Yes, especially Rhand
4. I disagree. Not posting is not a towntell.
5. And shockwave. And possibly you.
@ Your case on AE. I like this case. I think it is the strongest case at the moment.
This went faster than I thought it would.
Shockwave: I take back what I said about the WIFOM. I think I discovered why Dkings died.
Antny: I guess I owe you that apology. You're town.
Void Interactions
-----------------
1) The townslip issues
----------------------
TMCT
* Void doesn't agree with the DCIII townslip and questions TMCT on it
* TMCT ignores this at first.
* Void tries to tie TMCT and DCIII together over this
DCIII
* Void pushed him hard on the townslip --> DCIII is town
AE
* Barns Void on the townslip thing but votes ME instead and then me
Antny
* Ignores the whole townslip thing
Kraj
* Ignores the whole townslip thing
BE
* no early Void interactions
NNY
* questions Void about this very, very late in a catchup post. In this post, he calls Void not town (Nny is probably town)
2) Void goes for dkings
-----------------------
* Kraj wants to know why Dkings over ME
* Void abandons ship on Dkings as soon as DCIII unvotes him (again, points to DCIII being town)
3) Void comments on Antny's reasoning regarding post counts
-----------------------------------------------------------
4) Void questions why TMCT doesn't want to end the day with Nny V/LA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
But drops it immediately after TMCT's answer
5) Void attacks Antny for his catchup post (calls it bussing B_E)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
* Antny responds with a counterattack on Void. Their back and forth seems not to be scum vs scum --> Antny probably town
* B_E makes a weak post to Void about back and forthing and calls Void town
6) I make my case on Void
-------------------------
* Kraj shows support for a Void wagon without further explanation
* DCIII joins the wagon because he likes the case
* dkings ties Void and B_E together
* B_E keeps saying Void is town and messes that up in his T/S, putting Void in null-scum
* Kraj adds reasoning to his vote. Late though.
* TMCT uses percentages to explain he thinks Void isn't scum (don't like this at all)
* AE's #376-#377 seems genuine
* B_E thinks he hammers
* Void self-hammers
It's not Antny. Any and all interactions with Void around the #231-#237 mark should eliminate him as a suspect - Void wouldn't have gotten into such a squabble like that with a teammate after his trist with fulcrum in WWII with me in this game - he also wouldn't have made nice with him like he did in #237.
Also don't think it's BE as I don't think he'd so adamantly say that he wants to lynch ME over Void so many times. Doesn't seem like his style if he were scum and I just read him as town at this point.
Rhand and Nny are town.
Shockwave is playing in way too many games, but I think he'd have actually been more active and paying more attention if he were scum. Won't rule him out, but don't think he's likely.
The scum team is almost assuredly, IMO, within AE, TMCT, and Kraj - with Kraj being a distant third and AE being my strongest read.
Case on AE (can make it in more detail if needed later):
Early game placed his vote on ME right away and then almost immediately took it off and placed it on Rhand - furthering suspicion on ME while probably not trying to push the wagon too quickly, maybe while someone else on his team was already on it.
Posts seem to have a lot of knowledge about players in the game. One example is that he's initially very confident in defending BE, at one point flatly saying that all three votes on him were terrible. Posts comments throughout the game toward both ME and BE designed to appear helpful and likely to show that he knows that they're town. Not likely to come from someone who is still trying to figure out if those players are scum or not.
Then, willing to move on either the ME or BE case later on while not pressing the Void case, attempting to classify it as meta and saying that he's been burned that way before. Also, seemingly unaware that there was more to the case.
Slowed on giving his read of Void despite all of the chatter around it - waited to join the wagon until momentum had clearly shifted to him. Also slowed on posting around this point of the game - I think he was waiting to see if momentum was going to shift to Void and if he needed to bus.
Those are the main things but can go into more detail with posts to point some of this stuff out, if necessary.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
Will also get my thoughts on TMCT out there sometime tomorrow but I think that he kept off of the Void wagon while still making it clear (again, once Void momentum had reached critical mass) that he suspected him (and the wording around some of that was suspicious to me as well) but also tried a few times to shift momentum back to ME.
Re-read the game and lemmeknowhatchathink. I feel very confident in this.
We seem to disagree about B_E and AE
Let me know how you think my conclusions are wrong.
About what you said about B_E adamantly saying he wants to lynch ME over Void, didn't TMCT do the same thing?
Okay, so pretty much everyone agrees it seems Dkings was the scum target.
Anyone want to speculate why they chose him?
I wouldn't mind speculating over why dks was killed but Shockwave isn't doing that, he's just passing the topic along for others to discuss. Everything Shockwave has done recently is just padding. In fact his most recent attempt at scumhunting appears to be this post from over 3 weeks ago. Since leaving the BE wagon here he's kept his vote off players and stayed out the way for a long time with the catching up excuse. The other interesting thing I picked up on rereading is that there no mention of Void or dkingsland anywhere in his posts but there's at least something with pretty much everyone else in the game. Still he's backing off from putting his neck out and I don't like it. If he's involved enough in the game to discuss the night actions it's time for some reads and some scumhunting (That's a big hint Shockwave)!
Burning Earth
Next my vote is staying right on Burning_Earth particularity after this post here:
It's not Antny. Any and all interactions with Void around the #231-#237 mark should eliminate him as a suspect - Void wouldn't have gotten into such a squabble like that with a teammate after his trist with fulcrum in WWII with me in this game - he also wouldn't have made nice with him like he did in #237.
Also don't think it's BE as I don't think he'd so adamantly say that he wants to lynch ME over Void so many times. Doesn't seem like his style if he were scum and I just read him as town at this point.
Rhand and Nny are town.
Shockwave is playing in way too many games, but I think he'd have actually been more active and paying more attention if he were scum. Won't rule him out, but don't think he's likely.
The scum team is almost assuredly, IMO, within AE, TMCT, and Kraj - with Kraj being a distant third and AE being my strongest read.
Each sentence is in response to a paragraph.
1. I think antny is town, yes. My gut is still saying he's scum, but my brain thinks he's town.
2. Well, I know i'm town...
3. Yes, especially Rhand
4. I disagree. Not posting is not a towntell.
5. And shockwave. And possibly you.
@ Your case on AE. I like this case. I think it is the strongest case at the moment.
Which if he means this post here a) isn't true (AE doesn't seem agree with either 1), 2) or 5)) and b) seems completely ridiculous if Burning_Earth's vote on Archmage Eternal was genuine. He's too eager to shift his vote to please and I sense this is probably what happened with his jump onto ME's wagon after Kraj on Day One. Also other than ME, I don't think I've seen BE present a clear cut case against a player so far.
Also I was confident ME was also scum because of how quickly void threw in the towel (it looked a lot like trying to save a scumbuddy). If ME wasn't the wagon he was trying to stop it looks likely that BE's was.
@AE I am still curious as to what in Void's late play made you think ME was town.
As for the case against AE, although he did defend BE is the beginning he was pushing the BE wagon hard at the end of the day and I'm not seeing many signs that he defended ME either. I'm still thinking BE is scum and therefore I think AE is probably town but if I am wrong about BE I will have to look at this again.
I feel like need to gear up for a fight with you (I have a number issues I want to return to from day 1) but I'm feeling tired after work today. Your other targets strike me as odd. Can you remind me again why you don't like BE for a lynch today?
This was my post, I made you wait for me, it's really annoying I know but then again....
Not a huge fan of AE's last post. I'll explain why maybe tomorrow.
You pretty much do the exact same thing with you post so you have no right to complain.
I also dislike that Antny has refused to engage me - he has instead opted to attack Rhand's argument, ignoring my push.
And what push was this exactly. The old "I have same position as previously stated push". You were expecting to respond to the arguments which I already told you were explained and a waste of time going over again. Sigh.
Secondly I say I'm gearing up for a fight and you say I refuse to engage you. You really aren't gonna let a guy off one night cause he's tired. Did you really think I'm refusing to engage you or this more classic Nny bull.
Also it's unusual for town to completely ignore the second half of my post like you did. I called targets odd and you don't respond. I ask a direct question about BE and your reaction is pretend I'm ignoring you (looking back it's not the first time you've flat ignored a direct question).
What were you hoping for exactly with your post originally?
As for yesterdays issues I'm still not happy with your original post from back during your catchup. Sure you did find one scum player in your four suspects (which is pretty much the expectation if you took any four players and make them into a shortlist) but the reasons were weak and that's why I hated the post about telling Rhand "No need. My posts should illustrate it for you." When you failed to highlight any real reason for a Void lynch. In fact all I could find was a post where Void voted DCIII (it's not entirely clear what you were saying), a post where you described a hmmmm as contrived, and finally that terrible dkingsland vote (which was the only thing that Rhand used in his case against Void btw). Your case was not strong, not coherent and if Rhand had taken your advice I think Void would have probably survived the day.
Secondly there zero interaction between you and Void after your vote on him until his suicide note. Void never mentioned any of your case (yet he had no end of comments on Rhand's) and you never returned to him instead backing away and looking elsewhere. If you were so convinced Void was scum why didn't push more people to join the wagon? Why sit back and wait and even press other lynchable suspects while others did the work?
Also if I'm such a huge suspect why simply say you dislike my posts? Why not say why or try building a case? You've pretty much kept your responses short and made it impossible for me to deal with you. What motivation would town have for this approach?
Anyway other issues, is your read on TMCT based on anything more than your gut right now? Especially afterthis bizarre TMCT likes me post here.
It won't be a popular stance but I'm not reading Nny as town right now and I'll put at #3 on the scumlist behind BE and Shock.
Antny: I guess I owe you that apology. You're town.
That's OK, we can work together now.
Still getting a town read on TMCT but rereading Kraj I can see the possibility but that said it could still be circumstantial at this stage. I would like to see a little more of him in the game after thanksgiving though. I think I put him at a null read for now.
We seem to disagree about B_E and AE
Let me know how you think my conclusions are wrong.
About what you said about B_E adamantly saying he wants to lynch ME over Void, didn't TMCT do the same thing?
BE proclaimed Void town (or at least stated that he really thought that Void was town) despite momentum having built on Void and did so multiple times without hedging or apologies. He either says he thinks he's town or that he won't be voting for him over ME (to some extent) in #318, #327, #341, #351, #354, and #362.
AE asked about my read on BE's style - My take on him is that he's more of a straightforward player who would look to try to distance himself from Void as the wagon heated up as opposed to repeatedly calling him town if he knew he was scum, especially considering that he (BE) has been called into question already this game. Is BE the kind of player who, after having endured a wagon of his own, would so adamantly proclaim Void town even as the pressure on Void grew? That's the part that I find unlikely about a BE scum. BE then changes his opinion in #375 as soon as Void self-votes... a place that I'd think most players would change their opinion on Void as self-voting yourself into claim range is basically conceding.
TMCT, on the other hand, hedged. In #355 he leaves himself the option of voting Void while disagreeing with some of your arguments against Void and shifting focus back to ME while creating a % scum confidence of 40% Void and 55% ME.
Indicative that Void typed out his response in Word or something.
-----
Speaking of Void I'll get to him tonight. Though as of now I'm almost immovably resolute on an ME lynch.
The whole "I'll get to him tonight" reads as forced, to me, especially in the context of also saying that he likely won't leave the ME wagon.
So that's how I differentiate BE from TMCT with regard to their stances on Void and ME.
You and Antny have me second guessing my BE read, though. Do you (Rhand) think it likely that scum BE would be so adamant about Void being town even as the momentum built on him?
I agree with the points made about Shockwave's continued silence/lack of contribution as being concerning. I was expecting him to have content to open the day since he said that he could use the Night to re-read.
I'd like to think me as scum wouldn't be a bad enough player to declare a scum with a huge wagon on him town as I did and declare a townie scum as I did.
Don't like post 335 or 473. Shockwave and TMCT are both suspects for me.
Actually Unvote Vote Shockwave07. He hasn't scumhunted and 473 is bad. He should have speculated if he wanted us to. He hasn't scumhunted in... a long long time.
Recovering from eating a lot... I made food disappear too fast.
But on topic: I have to admit my scum hunting has lacked... Over the space of at least couple hundred posts. So I must admit I deserve at least a little pressure for that.
Also I know some questions are being raised about my interest in the NK/Vig, situation. I am must admit I wanted to figure out why the targets were chosen. I think someone bread crumbed one now that I think of it... But the NKs are a way for me to stay connected to the game and possibly contribute.
As to why I haven't posed my own theory it's because as I do my reread (currently up to the 220's) I see the vig target (dKings) looked somewhat as a neutral in players eyes, catching a little heat from DCIII and Kraj. It would seem with a good push he could have become a mislynch target. It doesn't make too much sense to me. So I wanted to defer to more expirienced players for their feelings on the matter.
Boo to this. The wait has been excessive and it seems like you're avoiding having to contribute.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
I really did think it was a serious vote for MirrorEntity, and only unvoted to stop ME self hammering and taking the lynch away from town. I get that Void is messing with us but at this point he's caught and all he's really doing is trying to screw with us, so outside of votes I'm ignoring everything he's saying.
Vote: Void
In case I die tonight - ME is almost surely scum.
The third is likely within Shockwave and Antny.
Only other people that I could really see so far are DK, TMCT, and AE - but I feel better about DK and think of these three more as "if other things stop making sense" reads.
If ME is somehow not mafia then I suppose it could be BE but I don't think that's likely. Seriously doubt that both ME and BE are scum together and actually am just reading BE as more new overall than malicious at this point.
Rhand and Nny are almost surefire town, IMO, as there was no reason to push that Void wagon.
Aside: Void - you sure are drawing red a lot.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Tell me about it. This is my 3rd? completed Scum game in 4 games. All of which I got lynched on Day 1... Time to revamp my play it looks like.
Day One Final Vote Count
Void (7): Rhand, Nny, DCIII, Kraj, Archmage Eternal, Burning Earth, Void
mirrorentity (2): The Most Curious Thing, dkingsland967
Rhand (1): mirrorentity
Not Voting (2): Antny223, Shockwave07
Glenn resisted the urge to vomit again. He and Rick grunted convincingly as they shuffled slowly through the crowded streets of Atlanta, dripping with walker guts. Their disguise seemed to be working; the walkers were largely ignoring their still-living companions. Only a few more blocks until Rick and Glenn would reach the moving van. Only a few more blocks before they could rescue the others. Suddenly, a loud crash grabbed their attention, followed by a scream. The sounds had come from the department store. Glenn turned as if to check on the others, but Rick grabbed his arm, an intense expression in his eyes. Rick pulled Glenn in close and began whispering urgently in hushed tones.
"Look, I know you're worried about the others. I get that. But if you go back in there now, none of you will make it back out."
"What do you expect me to do, let them get eaten?"
"You can't help anyone if you're dead."
With that, Rick continued to shamble toward the van. Glenn turned one last time to look at the mob of walkers pouring into the building, then followed Rick, a tear running down his grimy cheek.
Andrea screamed. She hadn't expected the walkers to break through the glass doors so quickly. She pulled out her gun, pointed at the incoming mob, and pulled the trigger. Nothing. She began to panic, trying again and again to fire at the crowd. Nothing. It wasn't until the walkers were on top of her, tearing into her flesh, that she remembered Rick's advice.
"Next time, though, take the safety off. It won't shoot otherwise."
Void has been lynched.
He was Andrea (Mafia Goon).
Night One will end no later than 11:59PM EST Monday, November 25th.
Please send in Night actions as soon as possible and inform me if you have an optional Night action you do not wish to take.
Day broke over a silent city. Then, a single gunshot echoed across the concrete jungle. Rick ran for the moving van and barely managed to get inside before he was overwhelmed by walkers. He revved the engine and made a break for it. Turning on the short-wave radio in the van, he tried to find the frequency the others had used on the rooftop. As he approached the department store, he noticed how many walkers were still fighting to get inside, desperately clawing at each other in an attempt to taste human flesh. He thought of Andrea. He gritted his teeth, still struggling to get in contact with the others. He refused to give up.
mirrorentity and dkingsland967 have been killed.
mirrorentity was Walker (Town Vanilla).
dkingsland967 was Walker (Town Vanilla).
It is now Day Two.
With 9 alive, it's 5 votes to lynch.
Day Two will end no later than 11:59PM EST Monday, December 16th.
It's not Antny. Any and all interactions with Void around the #231-#237 mark should eliminate him as a suspect - Void wouldn't have gotten into such a squabble like that with a teammate after his trist with fulcrum in WWII with me in this game - he also wouldn't have made nice with him like he did in #237.
Also don't think it's BE as I don't think he'd so adamantly say that he wants to lynch ME over Void so many times. Doesn't seem like his style if he were scum and I just read him as town at this point.
Rhand and Nny are town.
Shockwave is playing in way too many games, but I think he'd have actually been more active and paying more attention if he were scum. Won't rule him out, but don't think he's likely.
The scum team is almost assuredly, IMO, within AE, TMCT, and Kraj - with Kraj being a distant third and AE being my strongest read.
Case on AE (can make it in more detail if needed later):
Early game placed his vote on ME right away and then almost immediately took it off and placed it on Rhand - furthering suspicion on ME while probably not trying to push the wagon too quickly, maybe while someone else on his team was already on it.
Posts seem to have a lot of knowledge about players in the game. One example is that he's initially very confident in defending BE, at one point flatly saying that all three votes on him were terrible. Posts comments throughout the game toward both ME and BE designed to appear helpful and likely to show that he knows that they're town. Not likely to come from someone who is still trying to figure out if those players are scum or not.
Then, willing to move on either the ME or BE case later on while not pressing the Void case, attempting to classify it as meta and saying that he's been burned that way before. Also, seemingly unaware that there was more to the case.
Slowed on giving his read of Void despite all of the chatter around it - waited to join the wagon until momentum had clearly shifted to him. Also slowed on posting around this point of the game - I think he was waiting to see if momentum was going to shift to Void and if he needed to bus.
Those are the main things but can go into more detail with posts to point some of this stuff out, if necessary.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
Will also get my thoughts on TMCT out there sometime tomorrow but I think that he kept off of the Void wagon while still making it clear (again, once Void momentum had reached critical mass) that he suspected him (and the wording around some of that was suspicious to me as well) but also tried a few times to shift momentum back to ME.
Re-read the game and lemmeknowhatchathink. I feel very confident in this.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
It could have been, but with M_E being the #2 suspect yesterday it's an odd for the mafia kill.
A_E is also my number one suspect.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
DCIII, Rhand, Shockwave, and NNY all pushed Void when it would have been very easy to lynch M_E. A very aggressive bussing is possible, but I think it's more likely the scum are among the remaining players.
Current New Favorite Person™: Mallory Archer
She knows why.
I just had a flash of me asking this same question as scum in Presidential.
Anyway, yeah, it could've been, but barring redirect shenanigans (I'm 97% sure AI wouldn't put a redirecter in a Basic anyway) the picture we're seeing is pretty clear.
I strongly disagree with this line of reasoning. I've given up on it ever since I applied it to wrongly clear scum-ZDS in Meg's Avatars (a better mafiaoso than these four players who also only needed that one mislynch to win the game on the spot).
DCIII, Rhand, and Nny are probably town, but for other reasons. Shockwave, on the other hand, doesn't look any better just because he pushed Void.
Vote Burning Earth
Despite everything that happened with Rhand Day 1 he should be town after that case against Void.
@Shockwave07 - Yesterday ended before we got all of that lovely content you promised. Yet the first thing you say is:
Which is hardly the most pressing issue (unless you have reason to beleive that ME could have been the NK, in which case let's hear it). I want these supposedly reads or whatever we spent days waiting for at the end of Day 1 already.
That's a lot of players to clear. Can you show justification for all the names on this list?
Re-reading will come later, so watch this space.
I don't believe his exchanges with me on Day 1 were genuine, and he left a lot of my questions answered unsatisfactorily.
I might take a look at what DCIII is talking about in regards to the interactions with Void, but I think this is where my vote needs to be for the time being.
I would also accept a lynch on TMCT.
When did Shockwave push Void?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
------------------
My reads are colored green for probably town and orange for probably scum. Leaning reads remain black.
Things that stand out to me in italics.
Vote Count 1
Burning Earth (3): Rhand, dkingsland967, mirrorentity
mirrorentity (2): Shockwave07, The Most Curious Thing
dkingsland967 (2): DCIII, Kraj
The Most Curious Thing (1): Antny223
DCIII (1): Void
Not Voting (3): Archmage Eternal, Burning Earth, Nny
There's no scum on the B_E wagon.
Scum!Void is voting DCII
There should be scum to be found on the ME and/or dkings wagons.
Vote Count 2
mirrorentity (4): Shockwave07, The Most Curious Thing, Kraj, Burning Earth
Rhand (2): Archmage Eternal, Antny223
Burning Earth (1): mirrorentity
dkingsland967 (1): DCIII
Antny223 (1): Rhand
Not Voting (3): dkingsland967, Nny, Void
Kraj moved from town to town.
Vote Count 3
Burning Earth (5): mirrorentity, DCIII, Void, Rhand, Shockwave07
mirrorentity (3): The Most Curious Thing, Kraj, Burning Earth
Rhand (2): Archmage Eternal, Antny223
Not Voting (2): dkingsland967, Nny
At least 2 wagons on town. I would be surprised if there's a not-voter left among scum in this situation, making Nny probably town.
If B_E is scum, I would assume Void's vote to be the only busvote. The third scum should be found on ME's or my wagon in that case.
Vote Count 4
Void (4): Rhand, Nny, DCIII, Kraj
Burning Earth (2): mirrorentity, Void
mirrorentity (2): The Most Curious Thing, Burning Earth
Not Voting (4): Archmage Eternal, Antny223, dkingsland967, Shockwave07
We have a wagon on scum. Purely based on vote analysis, I would assume Kraj or DCIII to be a bus vote. DCIII seems unlikely behaviourally. I am going to reread Kraj to check if that's a true possibility.
Vote Count 5
Void (5): Rhand, Nny, DCIII, Kraj, Void
mirrorentity (5): The Most Curious Thing, Burning Earth, dkingsland967, Antny223, Archmage Eternal
purple (1): mirrorentity
Not Voting (1): Shockwave07
Nothing happened on the Void wagon, but the counterwagon picked up steam.
Day One Final Vote Count
Void (7): Rhand, Nny, DCIII, Kraj, Archmage Eternal, Burning Earth, Void
mirrorentity (2): The Most Curious Thing, dkingsland967
Rhand (1): mirrorentity
Not Voting (2): Antny223, Shockwave07
TMCT's vote never moved away from ME. Antny removed himself from the votecount and AE and B_E switched to Void.
General conclusions:
--------------------
The most worrysome voters seem to be B_E, Antny, AE and Kraj.
TMCT would worry me too, but I think tunnelling is his town meta.
B_E: He sticks to ME the whole time until he can bring Void to hammer range.
Antny: If my TMCT conclusion is correct, he has had his vote on 3 different townies and never on scum.
AE: Exact same voting pattern as Antny, with the only difference that he was on the Void wagon with the lynch.
Kraj: went from town to town to Void, with the last voteswitch exactly when I would expect a busvote on that wagon.
I also want to add that Shockwave hasn't been active enough to say anything about his voting pattern.
The other scum is likely from those staying off of Void (and out of the fray in the final vote count): Antny and Shockwave.
I remembered him jumping off the Burning_Earth wagon and onto the Void wagon, like you did. He actually just unvoted B_E in #272 without placing another vote. My bad.
If he flips scum, AE seems to be a huge candidate for partner. Look in the votecounts how they follow each other around.
I didn't have scumvibes from AE though, so I'll have to reread him.
Vote: Antny
That actually isn't true, your following the votecounts (which were fairly infrequent) but you ignore the fact that Burning_Earth was the main person I had a vote on in Day 1. At no point did AE vote Burning_Earth. While I appreciate your attempt at vote analyse you need go back and really check the voting to get it right. I don't mind you tunnelling into me but I want the facts to be accurate!
The TMCT was RVS (i.e. useless in analyse terms) and not voting Void was simply not wanting to end the game too quickly (see my unvote on MirrorEntity).
I feel like need to gear up for a fight with you (I have a number issues I want to return to from day 1) but I'm feeling tired after work today. Your other targets strike me as odd. Can you remind me again why you don't like BE for a lynch today?
Is it Kraj?
The flaw in your question is the false assumption. But nice way gloss over your mistakes in post 462. I was naive enough to believe I might get an apology out of you.
Well you attacked my logic with good arguments. The thing is that you didn't attack the read on you but the connection between you and AE.
You took me wanting to look into him when you flip scum as personal, which imo is telling of your own alignment.
I agree with your thought that it seems less likely that all three scum would be on Void's wagon with the ME wagon being viable (though not something I'd rule out altogether).
You also also fall into the category of players staying off of Void, though.
@Rhand - read the exchange with Void and Antny that culminates in #237 (that initially tipped you off to Void). Do you think that Void would be apologetic like that to a scum buddy? I don't. I read that as self-consciousness about his back and forth and extending an olive branch to a townie. I also don't think he'd have had that interaction as a whole with a scum buddy after his recent WWII experience and my involvement there.
Let me know if you think that is a viable play from a scum Void to a scum Antny - I just don't see it.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Actually I did attack your logic and since there's only one paragraph I am disappointed your so heavily focused on so-called scumslips you missed them. Did you really think the first and last sentences were defences of AE?
Since I need to elaborate further, your only comments was I only vote Town and I got off the ME wagon at the end. Yet you read BE as likely scum and then miss my vote on him out. As for the second issue I already explained that here.
Again I never actually said this but you made this leap regardless. What I'm telling you is I'm Town, and thus not scum buddies with AE, Kraj or anybody. You can look into any other players at will but the results won't matter without context.
I disagree. The only good thing about it is that it keeps the distraction of arguing over his lynch away. Void cleared ME at the end of the day.
Hate this post.
Will have to go look through and see when the votes started, but could this be a reason why Void basically gave up?
Can you say what his style is? ME was close to being lynched, could be an eager scum trying to nail down the lynch and keep it away from a *** buddy. I can definitely see a scum act this way.
I agree
To say he'd be more active as scum I disagree with. I'm not familiar with Shockwave but some players hate being scum and their posts show it in activity levels or post content.
If I was scum I would have stayed and pushed for MEs lynch. It was almost a free pass on how the scum vibes were coming off ME. Even later on when some were wavering on who to lynch between ME and Void. As Voids scum buddy I would have pushed for ME without fear of and backlash.
Those three vote were horrible and I challenge anyone to debate me on that. (I'm going to start my reread with them now that you bring it up).
There's nothing designed, I'm trying to be helpful in weeding out the scum. You say that throughout the game I say or point toward ME being town. I don't recall that. I believe I came to thinking ME town late in the day after Voids play.
Your throwing me off here. You say I'm pointing toward BE and ME as town but that I willing to lynch them? If that's the case then I should be the lynch as that's horrible town play.
If I wanted town cred I would have jumped on early when the first few votes happened. Like I said earlier, if I was Voids bud I would have pushed hard for ME as that would have been an easy lynch.
No way the scum would have killed ME when he was high on scum lists.
Is that all you have?
This is telling.
Dosen't it say something that he ignored the Void wagon and tried for the ME lynch? Looks like he went where the bigger wagon was at the time between ME and BE but stayed off of Voids wagon.
I don't follow anyone. Ever.
Rereading Shock, Kraj, Antny, and TMCT. Also want to look back on DK to see if there is anything that the scum were worried about.
Town read on Rhand, Nny, and although he is misguided DCIII. His posts don't come across as forced but genuinely scum hunting ones.
My posting over the week will be at a minimum.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Anyone want to speculate why they chose him?
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Fixed.
Each sentence is in response to a paragraph.
1. I think antny is town, yes. My gut is still saying he's scum, but my brain thinks he's town.
2. Well, I know i'm town...
3. Yes, especially Rhand
4. I disagree. Not posting is not a towntell.
5. And shockwave. And possibly you.
@ Your case on AE. I like this case. I think it is the strongest case at the moment.
Vote Archmage Eternal
There's so much useful stuff in this tread toDay to comment on and you choose to go for the WIFOM? Why?
I am starting my rereads of Void interactions.
Meanwhile, unvote
I don't want to see near-lynches before I'm finished.
I'll do everyone one by one, so this will take a while.
Shockwave: I take back what I said about the WIFOM. I think I discovered why Dkings died.
Antny: I guess I owe you that apology. You're town.
Void Interactions
-----------------
1) The townslip issues
----------------------
TMCT
* Void doesn't agree with the DCIII townslip and questions TMCT on it
* TMCT ignores this at first.
* Void tries to tie TMCT and DCIII together over this
DCIII
* Void pushed him hard on the townslip --> DCIII is town
AE
* Barns Void on the townslip thing but votes ME instead and then me
Antny
* Ignores the whole townslip thing
Kraj
* Ignores the whole townslip thing
BE
* no early Void interactions
NNY
* questions Void about this very, very late in a catchup post. In this post, he calls Void not town (Nny is probably town)
2) Void goes for dkings
-----------------------
* Kraj wants to know why Dkings over ME
* Void abandons ship on Dkings as soon as DCIII unvotes him (again, points to DCIII being town)
3) Void comments on Antny's reasoning regarding post counts
-----------------------------------------------------------
4) Void questions why TMCT doesn't want to end the day with Nny V/LA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
But drops it immediately after TMCT's answer
5) Void attacks Antny for his catchup post (calls it bussing B_E)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
* Antny responds with a counterattack on Void. Their back and forth seems not to be scum vs scum --> Antny probably town
* B_E makes a weak post to Void about back and forthing and calls Void town
6) I make my case on Void
-------------------------
* Kraj shows support for a Void wagon without further explanation
* DCIII joins the wagon because he likes the case
* dkings ties Void and B_E together
* B_E keeps saying Void is town and messes that up in his T/S, putting Void in null-scum
* Kraj adds reasoning to his vote. Late though.
* TMCT uses percentages to explain he thinks Void isn't scum (don't like this at all)
* AE's #376-#377 seems genuine
* B_E thinks he hammers
* Void self-hammers
Conclusions:
* Town: DCII, NNY, Antny
* probably town: AE
* null: Shockwave
* Leaning scum: Kraj, TMCT
* Scum: B_E
vote B_E
We seem to disagree about B_E and AE
Let me know how you think my conclusions are wrong.
About what you said about B_E adamantly saying he wants to lynch ME over Void, didn't TMCT do the same thing?
SHOCKWAVE
I wouldn't mind speculating over why dks was killed but Shockwave isn't doing that, he's just passing the topic along for others to discuss. Everything Shockwave has done recently is just padding. In fact his most recent attempt at scumhunting appears to be this post from over 3 weeks ago. Since leaving the BE wagon here he's kept his vote off players and stayed out the way for a long time with the catching up excuse. The other interesting thing I picked up on rereading is that there no mention of Void or dkingsland anywhere in his posts but there's at least something with pretty much everyone else in the game. Still he's backing off from putting his neck out and I don't like it. If he's involved enough in the game to discuss the night actions it's time for some reads and some scumhunting (That's a big hint Shockwave)!
Burning Earth
Next my vote is staying right on Burning_Earth particularity after this post here:
Which if he means this post here a) isn't true (AE doesn't seem agree with either 1), 2) or 5)) and b) seems completely ridiculous if Burning_Earth's vote on Archmage Eternal was genuine. He's too eager to shift his vote to please and I sense this is probably what happened with his jump onto ME's wagon after Kraj on Day One. Also other than ME, I don't think I've seen BE present a clear cut case against a player so far.
Also I was confident ME was also scum because of how quickly void threw in the towel (it looked a lot like trying to save a scumbuddy). If ME wasn't the wagon he was trying to stop it looks likely that BE's was.
@AE I am still curious as to what in Void's late play made you think ME was town.
As for the case against AE, although he did defend BE is the beginning he was pushing the BE wagon hard at the end of the day and I'm not seeing many signs that he defended ME either. I'm still thinking BE is scum and therefore I think AE is probably town but if I am wrong about BE I will have to look at this again.
Nny
This was my post, I made you wait for me, it's really annoying I know but then again....
You pretty much do the exact same thing with you post so you have no right to complain.
And what push was this exactly. The old "I have same position as previously stated push". You were expecting to respond to the arguments which I already told you were explained and a waste of time going over again. Sigh.
Secondly I say I'm gearing up for a fight and you say I refuse to engage you. You really aren't gonna let a guy off one night cause he's tired. Did you really think I'm refusing to engage you or this more classic Nny bull.
Also it's unusual for town to completely ignore the second half of my post like you did. I called targets odd and you don't respond. I ask a direct question about BE and your reaction is pretend I'm ignoring you (looking back it's not the first time you've flat ignored a direct question).
What were you hoping for exactly with your post originally?
As for yesterdays issues I'm still not happy with your original post from back during your catchup. Sure you did find one scum player in your four suspects (which is pretty much the expectation if you took any four players and make them into a shortlist) but the reasons were weak and that's why I hated the post about telling Rhand "No need. My posts should illustrate it for you." When you failed to highlight any real reason for a Void lynch. In fact all I could find was a post where Void voted DCIII (it's not entirely clear what you were saying), a post where you described a hmmmm as contrived, and finally that terrible dkingsland vote (which was the only thing that Rhand used in his case against Void btw). Your case was not strong, not coherent and if Rhand had taken your advice I think Void would have probably survived the day.
Secondly there zero interaction between you and Void after your vote on him until his suicide note. Void never mentioned any of your case (yet he had no end of comments on Rhand's) and you never returned to him instead backing away and looking elsewhere. If you were so convinced Void was scum why didn't push more people to join the wagon? Why sit back and wait and even press other lynchable suspects while others did the work?
Also if I'm such a huge suspect why simply say you dislike my posts? Why not say why or try building a case? You've pretty much kept your responses short and made it impossible for me to deal with you. What motivation would town have for this approach?
Anyway other issues, is your read on TMCT based on anything more than your gut right now? Especially afterthis bizarre TMCT likes me post here.
It won't be a popular stance but I'm not reading Nny as town right now and I'll put at #3 on the scumlist behind BE and Shock.
That's OK, we can work together now.
Still getting a town read on TMCT but rereading Kraj I can see the possibility but that said it could still be circumstantial at this stage. I would like to see a little more of him in the game after thanksgiving though. I think I put him at a null read for now.
BE proclaimed Void town (or at least stated that he really thought that Void was town) despite momentum having built on Void and did so multiple times without hedging or apologies. He either says he thinks he's town or that he won't be voting for him over ME (to some extent) in #318, #327, #341, #351, #354, and #362.
AE asked about my read on BE's style - My take on him is that he's more of a straightforward player who would look to try to distance himself from Void as the wagon heated up as opposed to repeatedly calling him town if he knew he was scum, especially considering that he (BE) has been called into question already this game. Is BE the kind of player who, after having endured a wagon of his own, would so adamantly proclaim Void town even as the pressure on Void grew? That's the part that I find unlikely about a BE scum. BE then changes his opinion in #375 as soon as Void self-votes... a place that I'd think most players would change their opinion on Void as self-voting yourself into claim range is basically conceding.
TMCT, on the other hand, hedged. In #355 he leaves himself the option of voting Void while disagreeing with some of your arguments against Void and shifting focus back to ME while creating a % scum confidence of 40% Void and 55% ME.
Prior to that, there's this quote:
The whole "I'll get to him tonight" reads as forced, to me, especially in the context of also saying that he likely won't leave the ME wagon.
So that's how I differentiate BE from TMCT with regard to their stances on Void and ME.
You and Antny have me second guessing my BE read, though. Do you (Rhand) think it likely that scum BE would be so adamant about Void being town even as the momentum built on him?
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I agree with the points made about Shockwave's continued silence/lack of contribution as being concerning. I was expecting him to have content to open the day since he said that he could use the Night to re-read.
@Shockwave, who are your top reads and why?
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I'd like to hear from Kraj why AE is his top scum read and hear from Nny on what he didn't like about AE's reply to me prior to my responding to AE.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Actually Unvote Vote Shockwave07. He hasn't scumhunted and 473 is bad. He should have speculated if he wanted us to. He hasn't scumhunted in... a long long time.
But on topic: I have to admit my scum hunting has lacked... Over the space of at least couple hundred posts. So I must admit I deserve at least a little pressure for that.
Also I know some questions are being raised about my interest in the NK/Vig, situation. I am must admit I wanted to figure out why the targets were chosen. I think someone bread crumbed one now that I think of it... But the NKs are a way for me to stay connected to the game and possibly contribute.
As to why I haven't posed my own theory it's because as I do my reread (currently up to the 220's) I see the vig target (dKings) looked somewhat as a neutral in players eyes, catching a little heat from DCIII and Kraj. It would seem with a good push he could have become a mislynch target. It doesn't make too much sense to me. So I wanted to defer to more expirienced players for their feelings on the matter.
More to come after complete reread.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
It was written by a dead mafia member, Void.
Unless you meant a different post number on that one Burning Earth.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
I think this game maybe sealed. Did we really glance over both this and this?!?!
Especially given a scum flipped Void I think we might have this game sealed if Burning Earth flips scum as well!
Full reads still coming, but how in the world?!
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)