Punishing fire also hits walkers, but I can see what you are saying.
For me, totem gets Abrupt decay'ed, and then DRS goes to town on your yard. Not good.
Sure, and their second shaman or extirpate gets your PF after you take out the first one. Now you say you get back PF with grove, 'cause you got lucky and found one before you had to take out the shaman. But I got lucky too and had the cursed scroll to kill the shaman with... Or I had the academy ruins and mana to activate it...
We can go back and forth with scenarios all we want (and trust me, I have), but I'm still convinced PF is not this deck's strongest option against DRS when considering what it costs us... In a meta where Deathrite Shaman is in every match, and we can tailor the deck just for him, sure I can see it justified. In my experience the decks he's in tend to be fairly good matchups anyway, and there are other more difficult ones we need to be able to account for... Plus the overall consistency necessary for long term success...
Then again, I'm working in a local meta bubble in Burnsville, MN... Maybe I'm just lucky DRS gets played less often here...
Sure, and their second shaman or extirpate gets your PF after you take out the first one. Now you say you get back PF with grove, 'cause you got lucky and found one before you had to take out the shaman. But I got lucky too and had the cursed scroll to kill the shaman with... Or I had the academy ruins and mana to activate it...
We can go back and forth with scenarios all we want (and trust me, I have), but I'm still convinced PF is not this deck's strongest option against DRS when considering what it costs us... In a meta where Deathrite Shaman is in every match, and we can tailor the deck just for him, sure I can see it justified. In my experience the decks he's in tend to be fairly good matchups anyway, and there are other more difficult ones we need to be able to account for... Plus the overall consistency necessary for long term success...
Then again, I'm working in a local meta bubble in Burnsville, MN... Maybe I'm just lucky DRS gets played less often here...
Yes, there's many scenarios, your milage may vary. I've used punishing fire countless times in situations a scroll or totem would not do it for me, so to each their own.
I will say shooting down a Magus of the Moon turn 2 is nice, though.
Yes, there's many scenarios, your milage may vary. I've used punishing fire countless times in situations a scroll or totem would not do it for me, so to each their own.
I will say shooting down a Magus of the Moon turn 2 is nice, though.
Fair enough... I haven't been in a situation yet where PF would have been my only out... Maybe just playing/not playing the card changes the way the deck plays out enough that we see those different scenarios, well, differently.
I will say, the one caviot to my position on PF is if they print "Sanctum Ruins"... Then I'll be all over red for Seismic Assaut and Gamble, and I'll probably be able to justify the PFs.
Fair enough... I haven't been in a situation yet where PF would have been my only out... Maybe just playing/not playing the card changes the way the deck plays out enough that we see those different scenarios, well, differently.
I will say, the one caviot to my position on PF is if they print "Sanctum Ruins"... Then I'll be all over red for Seismic Assaut and Gamble, and I'll probably be able to justify the PFs.
True.
I like punishing fire because it's easily recursive. If you have it online G1, there's no way a deathrite shaman will ever eat one, or live, for that matter.
Against decks like Jund, they have nothing that lives through a fire except goyf. Bloodbraid, Bob, deathrite all fall to the fires. The same goes with Shardless BUG, shardless agent, baleful strix, etc. Against bladedecks, it kills SFM, VClique, snapcaster mage. It also kills most of death and taxes/maverick, shoots delvers, thalia, gaddock teeg, the list goes on.
Against a control type deck like miracles or U/B tezzerator, you can snipe down the planeswalkers and keep them in check.
I used to maindeck totem, I think it's a great card, but if you aren't playing enlightened tutor it's not worth it.
I also used to play gamble as well with the fires, so the red splash was not just for that. I recently cut them for maindeck crop rotations as it works better for me.
There are also people cutting fires for 4x Engineered Explosives, as DRS cannot eat those. It's also good against the new True named Nemesis.
Lastly, it sucks alone as a wincon, I agree with that, but it can give you wins you wouldn't expect like:
I was playing a game 1 against jund. My hand wasn't very good, just an early mox diamond and port, sylvan library got decayed, and jund played cast two bobs. He flips double goyf, I start putting down some mazes to save myself. He flips a liliana and a land, plays both goyfs. I find a grove and play it, take some damage. He upkeeps, flips double BLOODBRAID ELF, and goes to 4. EOT, I Intuition punishing fire/punishing fire/punishing fire, keep a fire, get a fire back EOT, shoot him twice, and he dies on upkeep.
Against a control type deck like miracles or U/B tezzerator, you can snipe down the planeswalkers and keep them in check.
I used to maindeck totem, I think it's a great card, but if you aren't playing enlightened tutor it's not worth it.
I also used to play gamble as well with the fires, so the red splash was not just for that. I recently cut them for maindeck crop rotations as it works better for me.
There are also people cutting fires for 4x Engineered Explosives, as DRS cannot eat those. It's also good against the new True named Nemesis.
I play a Fire-less build. I've sworn by at least one extra copy of Engineered Explosives in my sideboard. Really helps hit those creatures that would die to P-Fire, anyway.
Sometimes you just have to have a Shock, and for that I've resorted to a Barbarian Ring in my maindeck. It's not pretty, and I want to cut it, but it's a necessary evil at this point. Maybe I should give Cursed Scroll a shot? I do run a pair of Enlightened Tutors...
I used to maindeck totem, I think it's a great card, but if you aren't playing enlightened tutor it's not worth it.
That's a big part of my reasoning. I so much more prefer playing the E Tutors to find the silver bullets, on top of being Exploration 5 and 6...
@WyvernSlayer
Try the Cursed Scroll. I love it as an alternative to PF. E Tutor is highly recommended if you go with it, to be able to find it when you need...
I keep a small binder of Lands cards where my Enlightened Tutors, extra sideboard cards and mana base changes hang out just in the off chance I need to swap things out.
I've used 3 K. Grips in the past, when incidences of Stoneblade increased a few months ago.
Got tired of Batterskull really fast.
Me too! Currently in my binder for extas I have:
Gamble, Raven's Crime, Krosan Grips, Spheres of Resistance, Abrupt Decays, Tranquil Thickets, Creeping Tar Pit, Enlightened Tutor, Mishra's Factory, Smokestack, Mindslaver, Chalice of the Void, Maze of Ith, Sylvan Library and a single bob.
I have things like barbarian ring and cabal pit somewhere too, but they're not in the binder.
After putting in some more games against Delver, I am definitely moving a third EE into my list somewhere. Any game where I resolved an EE turned into a win of the gradual grind persuasion. Playing two Manabond, a couple of games were FoW checks.
I'm moving up to 3 EE with the O. Stone, I still have a lot of affection for the Stone.
3-0-1 playing a 6 round $1k tourney today. Punted the game I drew against goblins, I had double stage + chasm lock, and I let the chasm die without a loam in hand. Blah.
Edit: Drew into top 8 with a 4-0-2 record in second place.
3-0-1 playing a 6 round $1k tourney today. Punted the game I drew against goblins, I had double stage + chasm lock, and I let the chasm die without a loam in hand. Blah.
Edit: Drew into top 8 with a 4-0-2 record in second place.
This is all from memory, i'll try to remember the important parts.
G1: Burn 2-0
He didn't have his deck registration sheet till 10 minutes after the round started and got a game loss. I guess he was semi-new to magic as he was playing stuff like Browbeat and Kiln Fiend. He was playing Price of Progress though, which was scary. I won the second game on the back of a marit lage.
G2:Goblins 1-1-1
I quickly win game 1 with a dark depths combo. Game 2 took FOREVER. I was turtling the entire time with Glacial Chasm + 2x Thespian Stage as a lock, while he built up a huge army. I must've had 10 cards left in my library, hadn't seen a T-West or a combo piece, and when I finally draw it, I drop the lock and leave chasm in the bin while I have no loam in hand and lose. We start game 3 with 2 minutes on the clock.
G3: Junk 2-0
Game 1 I take a few hits from batterskull, durdle around a bit, waste him off white mana and when I tolaria west for a Dark Depths with a stage in play, he scoops.
Game 2, He has turn 1 DRS, but it meets punishing fire. Mox Diamond accelerates me out early, and a T3 Crop rotation for DD gets the concession.
G4: Doomsday 2-1
I lose game 1 terribly, I have a port going, but he has only fetches. He fetches T3, Lotus Petal + rituals into Doomsday, LED crack in response, G-probes, cracks LED for blue, ideas unbound -> LED LED -> Burning wish -> Tendrils.
Game 2: I have a T1 Canonist which gets decay'ed, but land a chalice @ 1 and chalice @3. I assemble the combo while I have the chalices up and a port going.
Game 3: I keep a hand with the only hate as a port and a Trinisphere. He Cabal Therapies calling chalice. He therapies again and takes my 3-sphere before I can cast it, but I draw the nuts, into a cannonist, thalia, bob and another port. He scoops.
G5: Junk 2-0
This guy shows up late... and gets a game loss. I don't know why, but he did show up and we started off on game 2 without sideboard. I think I have the edge, but I know there's DRS.
Anyways, I don't see a lot from this game. I see a dual or two, a deathrite, and a tide hollow sculler that misses, that gets punishing fired, and a 20/20 flying eats him.
G6: ID
Totally conquered that mcdonalds sandwich and water.
Top 8:
Round 1: Goblins
Most of us want to split, someone says they don't so we play. Grrr.
Long story short:
He takes Game 1, I take game 2 after a quick crop rotation and game 3 I barely scrape by, the game goes long. He starts with T1 Goblin Lackey, I play a forest and pass. He swings, I think for a second and crop rotate into a maze and save myself. He plays a second lackey. I play tabernacle and pass, and he's forced to lose a lackey. He plays a land and plays two vials, then a third. I EE them away, and begin finding ports. I end it with a chasm lock + 4 ports, ghost quarting him out of mountains, and eventually finish him at 22 life with a marit lage swing and a punishing fire.
Round 2: Goblins
Really Hungry and tired... I want to split.. nope. Girlfriend brings me water to save the day!
AGAIN? This build is much different, mono red, no ports, and much faster and more aggro. Running multiple chieftains. Game 1, I take easily with the depth combo, game 2 is a loss (Drew 3 mox diamonds, and had 1 land for the first 6-7 turns, and game 3 takes forever, but it was so stomach wrenching. He has a fairly big army, and I'm taking damage slowly, but I dredge into a depths with a stage in hand. At some point he also dropped a blood moon, but I luckily had the Mox Diamond and Krosan Grip for it. I go for the combo, but he wastes in response, and I fall to 6, his board being Goblin Matron, Warren Instigator, Mogg War Marshall + Token, and two lackies. I dredge into maze next turn, drop maze, the destroyed dark depths, and pass. I had to hope he didn't draw a goblin lord, or something with haste. He doesn't get it, I maze the Instigator, drop to 1, and make a token for the win!
Afterthoughts: Against fair decks, Glacial Chasm + Thespian's Stage is BROKEN. I still need practice learning to keep the lock up properly, but it's amazing.
Stage + Depths is by far the best wincon. I won so many games that I had no business winning by just comboing out for their entire life total.
This is all from memory, i'll try to remember the important parts.
G1: Burn 2-0
He didn't have his deck registration sheet till 10 minutes after the round started and got a game loss. I guess he was semi-new to magic as he was playing stuff like Browbeat and Kiln Fiend. He was playing Price of Progress though, which was scary. I won the second game on the back of a marit lage.
G2:Goblins 1-1-1
I quickly win game 1 with a dark depths combo. Game 2 took FOREVER. I was turtling the entire time with Glacial Chasm + 2x Thespian Stage as a lock, while he built up a huge army. I must've had 10 cards left in my library, hadn't seen a T-West or a combo piece, and when I finally draw it, I drop the lock and leave chasm in the bin while I have no loam in hand and lose. We start game 3 with 2 minutes on the clock.
G3: Junk 2-0
Game 1 I take a few hits from batterskull, durdle around a bit, waste him off white mana and when I tolaria west for a Dark Depths with a stage in play, he scoops.
Game 2, He has turn 1 DRS, but it meets punishing fire. Mox Diamond accelerates me out early, and a T3 Crop rotation for DD gets the concession.
G4: Doomsday 2-1
I lose game 1 terribly, I have a port going, but he has only fetches. He fetches T3, Lotus Petal + rituals into Doomsday, LED crack in response, G-probes, cracks LED for blue, ideas unbound -> LED LED -> Burning wish -> Tendrils.
Game 2: I have a T1 Canonist which gets decay'ed, but land a chalice @ 1 and chalice @3. I assemble the combo while I have the chalices up and a port going.
Game 3: I keep a hand with the only hate as a port and a Trinisphere. He Cabal Therapies calling chalice. He therapies again and takes my 3-sphere before I can cast it, but I draw the nuts, into a cannonist, thalia, bob and another port. He scoops.
G5: Junk 2-0
This guy shows up late... and gets a game loss. I don't know how you can be in the top 8 contending and not come but... oh well.
Anyways, I don't see a lot from this game. I see a dual or two, a deathrite that gets punishing fired, and a 20/20 flying eats him.
G6: ID
Totally conquered that mcdonalds sandwich and water.
Top 8:
Round 1: Goblins
Most of us want to split, someone says they don't so we play. Grrr.
Long story short:
He takes Game 1, I take game 2 after a quick crop rotation and game 3 I barely scrape by, the game goes long. He starts with T1 Goblin Lackey, I play a forest and pass. He swings, I think for a second and crop rotate into a maze and save myself. He plays a second lackey. I play tabernacle and pass, and he's forced to lose a lackey. He plays a land and plays two vials, then a third. I EE them away, and begin finding ports. I end it with a chasm lock + 4 ports, ghost quarting him out of mountains, and eventually finish him at 22 life with a marit lage swing and a punishing fire.
Round 2: Goblins
Really Hungry and tired... I want to split.. nope. Girlfriend brings me water to save the day!
AGAIN? This build is much different, mono red, no ports, and much faster and more aggro. Running multiple chieftains. Game 1, I take easily with the depth combo, game 2 is a loss (Drew 3 mox diamonds, and had 1 land for the first 6-7 turns, and game 3 takes forever, but it was so stomach wrenching. He has a fairly big army, and I'm taking damage slowly, but I dredge into a depths with a stage in hand. I go for the combo, but he wastes in response, and I fall to 6, his board being Goblin Matron, Warren Instigator, Mogg War Marshall + Token, and two lackies. I dredge into maze next turn, drop maze, the destroyed dark depths, and pass. I had to hope he didn't draw a goblin lord, or something with haste. He doesn't get it, I maze the Instigator, drop to 1, and make a token for the win!
Afterthoughts: Against fair decks, Glacial Chasm + Thespian's Stage is BROKEN. I still need practice learning to keep the lock up properly, but it's amazing.
Stage + Depths is by far the best wincon. I won so many games that I had no business winning by just comboing out for their entire life total.
Crop Rotation was house all day.
Congratulations Sparki! Where did you place overall?
Versus goblins crop rotation is gamebreaking. Tabernacle slows them down enough to get a lock on. I never even thought of stage+Chasm(again lands makes me feel dumb haha) but with that insight I think I will be going down to one thicket and up a second rotation.
Congratulations Sparki! Where did you place overall?
Versus goblins crop rotation is gamebreaking. Tabernacle slows them down enough to get a lock on. I never even thought of stage+Chasm(again lands makes me feel dumb haha) but with that insight I think I will be going down to one thicket and up a second rotation.
Stage is really, really good with chasm. It makes it impossible for decks to simply just waste the chasm and take you out.
I actually ended up "1st", as in the top two, one of us had to concede for the planeswalker points, and my opponent gave it up.
Copy Chasm with Stage in response to a Wasteland activation, You can also copy it on you upkeep before not paying the life (or before sacing it to Zorb) so that there is always one in play (no instant speed burn).
I originally ran 1 of each, but since i started running crop rotations, I wanted another combo piece so it's easier to combo. Stage is so useful, even without the combo, I played around a blood moon by copying a basic forest in play, it was extra ports, etc.
I may cut bobs from the board, they were very lackluster all day. If I did, I might add another depths in the board.
I still don't think you can classify it as combo lands just yet.
Okay.. I knew that - i just thought there was something special trick
If you have a Stage that is a copy of Chasm, and you decide not to play for it, can you in response (in your upkeep) copy another land and not have to sac it?
Yes, but it will retain the age counter put at the beginning of the upkeep.
it can be another copy of land but during of each of your upkeep u have to pay each time 2 life for each counter even if is another land?
also sparki are the intuition better than gamble or entomb on this metagame?
No, you won't pay the life unless it's a chasm. If you recopy a chasm, it'll count the age counters.
I've always liked intuition, it's so versatile and you can make so many fun piles.
Gamble and entomb are better for combo, entomb doesn't see a lot of play right now.
I ask because sometimes intuition is too slow and always get a counter, on the other hand gamble is faster and sometimes can be tutor for exploration.
i think intuition is broken vs noncounter decks and gamble vs counter decks
especially now that we have easy access on red mana
In my opinion, the comparison shouldn't be between Intuition and Gamble... It should be what tutor to play in addition to Intuition: Gamble, Enlightened Tutor, Entomb, Crop Rotation, etc.
Gamble is great if you're tutoring for Life from the Loam, Punishing Fire, any land, or an artifact that you can potentially get back with Academy Ruins. Same goes for Entomb.
The problem with both of them is the not insignificant drawback of being unreliable tutors for Exploration and other enchantments. That's why I play Enlightened Tutor; I give up the ability to tutor for Loam with it (instead relying on Intuition to find them) in exchange for the relative certainty of keeping the card I tutor for (barring, of cource, interference by my opponent). If they print a convenient way to get back my enchantments if they end up in the graveyard, Gamble would likely get the nod over E. Tutor, but only in addition to Intuition/Tolaria West.
Crop Rotation gives you instant access to the Depths combo and all of the toolbox lands, in exchange for not being able to get Loam, Exploration, etc. I play two in my sideboard for match-ups where I'm not afraid of counterspells.
This is all assuming you play a blue heavy version of the deck, and thus are playing Intuition and Tolaria West. I can't really speak for the tutor choice rationale for non-blue versions of lands.
I originally ran 1 of each, but since i started running crop rotations, I wanted another combo piece so it's easier to combo. Stage is so useful, even without the combo, I played around a blood moon by copying a basic forest in play, it was extra ports, etc.
I may cut bobs from the board, they were very lackluster all day. If I did, I might add another depths in the board.
I still don't think you can classify it as combo lands just yet.
Is this more of a meta call? Bob seems like he's there for the more creature light matchups like combo or for decks that might board out their removal for graveyard hate. He's made a few Miracles and Death and Taxes players look foolish for boarding out StP against me. He's also accelerated me into Karakas against Sneak and Show a few times, although I realize that is why you run rotations.
Is this more of a meta call? Bob seems like he's there for the more creature light matchups like combo or for decks that might board out their removal for graveyard hate. He's made a few Miracles and Death and Taxes players look foolish for boarding out StP against me. He's also accelerated me into Karakas against Sneak and Show a few times, although I realize that is why you run rotations.
I think the decision on Dark Confidant is largely dependent on what kind of Lands build you have. From what I've gathered, Bob always fits in Intuition Lands, but can get cut from Combo Lands.
And with the recent talk of stuffing bullet lands and Dark Depths in the sideboard, is it time to bring up Living Wish again? I have seen one or two locals try to run it with interesting results.
Is this more of a meta call? Bob seems like he's there for the more creature light matchups like combo or for decks that might board out their removal for graveyard hate. He's made a few Miracles and Death and Taxes players look foolish for boarding out StP against me. He's also accelerated me into Karakas against Sneak and Show a few times, although I realize that is why you run rotations.
Maybe it's just the decks I played against, but I think I only boarded in bobs twice the entire day, and I only saw one, and at the time would've preferred it be a hate card. I'll have to test it out.
I think the decision on Dark Confidant is largely dependent on what kind of Lands build you have. From what I've gathered, Bob always fits in Intuition Lands, but can get cut from Combo Lands.
And with the recent talk of stuffing bullet lands and Dark Depths in the sideboard, is it time to bring up Living Wish again? I have seen one or two locals try to run it with interesting results.
Living wish is okay, but I don't really like it. It really takes up too much space in the board. The extra depths are just for postboard stuff.
Sure, and their second shaman or extirpate gets your PF after you take out the first one. Now you say you get back PF with grove, 'cause you got lucky and found one before you had to take out the shaman. But I got lucky too and had the cursed scroll to kill the shaman with... Or I had the academy ruins and mana to activate it...
We can go back and forth with scenarios all we want (and trust me, I have), but I'm still convinced PF is not this deck's strongest option against DRS when considering what it costs us... In a meta where Deathrite Shaman is in every match, and we can tailor the deck just for him, sure I can see it justified. In my experience the decks he's in tend to be fairly good matchups anyway, and there are other more difficult ones we need to be able to account for... Plus the overall consistency necessary for long term success...
Then again, I'm working in a local meta bubble in Burnsville, MN... Maybe I'm just lucky DRS gets played less often here...
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver
Yes, there's many scenarios, your milage may vary. I've used punishing fire countless times in situations a scroll or totem would not do it for me, so to each their own.
I will say shooting down a Magus of the Moon turn 2 is nice, though.
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Fair enough... I haven't been in a situation yet where PF would have been my only out... Maybe just playing/not playing the card changes the way the deck plays out enough that we see those different scenarios, well, differently.
I will say, the one caviot to my position on PF is if they print "Sanctum Ruins"... Then I'll be all over red for Seismic Assaut and Gamble, and I'll probably be able to justify the PFs.
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver
True.
I like punishing fire because it's easily recursive. If you have it online G1, there's no way a deathrite shaman will ever eat one, or live, for that matter.
Against decks like Jund, they have nothing that lives through a fire except goyf. Bloodbraid, Bob, deathrite all fall to the fires. The same goes with Shardless BUG, shardless agent, baleful strix, etc. Against bladedecks, it kills SFM, VClique, snapcaster mage. It also kills most of death and taxes/maverick, shoots delvers, thalia, gaddock teeg, the list goes on.
Against a control type deck like miracles or U/B tezzerator, you can snipe down the planeswalkers and keep them in check.
I used to maindeck totem, I think it's a great card, but if you aren't playing enlightened tutor it's not worth it.
I also used to play gamble as well with the fires, so the red splash was not just for that. I recently cut them for maindeck crop rotations as it works better for me.
There are also people cutting fires for 4x Engineered Explosives, as DRS cannot eat those. It's also good against the new True named Nemesis.
Lastly, it sucks alone as a wincon, I agree with that, but it can give you wins you wouldn't expect like:
I was playing a game 1 against jund. My hand wasn't very good, just an early mox diamond and port, sylvan library got decayed, and jund played cast two bobs. He flips double goyf, I start putting down some mazes to save myself. He flips a liliana and a land, plays both goyfs. I find a grove and play it, take some damage. He upkeeps, flips double BLOODBRAID ELF, and goes to 4. EOT, I Intuition punishing fire/punishing fire/punishing fire, keep a fire, get a fire back EOT, shoot him twice, and he dies on upkeep.
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Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
I play a Fire-less build. I've sworn by at least one extra copy of Engineered Explosives in my sideboard. Really helps hit those creatures that would die to P-Fire, anyway.
Sometimes you just have to have a Shock, and for that I've resorted to a Barbarian Ring in my maindeck. It's not pretty, and I want to cut it, but it's a necessary evil at this point. Maybe I should give Cursed Scroll a shot? I do run a pair of Enlightened Tutors...
That's a big part of my reasoning. I so much more prefer playing the E Tutors to find the silver bullets, on top of being Exploration 5 and 6...
@WyvernSlayer
Try the Cursed Scroll. I love it as an alternative to PF. E Tutor is highly recommended if you go with it, to be able to find it when you need...
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver
Me too! Currently in my binder for extas I have:
Gamble, Raven's Crime, Krosan Grips, Spheres of Resistance, Abrupt Decays, Tranquil Thickets, Creeping Tar Pit, Enlightened Tutor, Mishra's Factory, Smokestack, Mindslaver, Chalice of the Void, Maze of Ith, Sylvan Library and a single bob.
I have things like barbarian ring and cabal pit somewhere too, but they're not in the binder.
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I'm moving up to 3 EE with the O. Stone, I still have a lot of affection for the Stone.
Big Thanks to Xeno for sig art <3.
Edit: Drew into top 8 with a 4-0-2 record in second place.
G1: Burn 2-0
G2:Goblins 1-1-1
G3: Junk 2-0
G4: Doomsday 2-1
G5: Junk? 2-0
G6: ID
Edit edit: top 2 split!
Top 8 round 1: Goblins...
Top 4: Goblins...
Top 2: Split!
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Congrats on the top finish Sparki!
Any insight into whether goblins is just more common where you played, or is that the way the meta is shifting?
If the meta's moving that way (more aggressive/tribal), I thing Lands will be in a good position to do well in the near future...
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver
There's usually quite a few goblins players where I play. Mono red is cheaper than duals.
I'll write a report later!
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1x Academy Ruins
1x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dark Depths
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Glacial Chasm
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
3x Maze of Ith
1x Misty Rainforest
4x Rishadan Port
1x Savannah
1x Taiga
2x Thespian's Stage
1x The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2x Tolaria West
1x Tranquil Thicket
3x Tropical Island
1x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
1x Wooded Foothills
3x Punishing Fire
3x Crop Rotation
Sorceries: 4
4x Life from the Loam
Enchantments: 4
4x Exploration
Artifacts: 8
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Mox Diamond
1x Zuran Orb
3x Dark Confidant
2x Chalice of the Void
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Thalia, guardian of Thraben
2x Krosan Grip
3x Trinisphere
1x Ensnaring Bridge
This is all from memory, i'll try to remember the important parts.
G1: Burn 2-0
He didn't have his deck registration sheet till 10 minutes after the round started and got a game loss. I guess he was semi-new to magic as he was playing stuff like Browbeat and Kiln Fiend. He was playing Price of Progress though, which was scary. I won the second game on the back of a marit lage.
G2:Goblins 1-1-1
I quickly win game 1 with a dark depths combo. Game 2 took FOREVER. I was turtling the entire time with Glacial Chasm + 2x Thespian Stage as a lock, while he built up a huge army. I must've had 10 cards left in my library, hadn't seen a T-West or a combo piece, and when I finally draw it, I drop the lock and leave chasm in the bin while I have no loam in hand and lose. We start game 3 with 2 minutes on the clock.
G3: Junk 2-0
Game 1 I take a few hits from batterskull, durdle around a bit, waste him off white mana and when I tolaria west for a Dark Depths with a stage in play, he scoops.
Game 2, He has turn 1 DRS, but it meets punishing fire. Mox Diamond accelerates me out early, and a T3 Crop rotation for DD gets the concession.
G4: Doomsday 2-1
I lose game 1 terribly, I have a port going, but he has only fetches. He fetches T3, Lotus Petal + rituals into Doomsday, LED crack in response, G-probes, cracks LED for blue, ideas unbound -> LED LED -> Burning wish -> Tendrils.
Game 2: I have a T1 Canonist which gets decay'ed, but land a chalice @ 1 and chalice @3. I assemble the combo while I have the chalices up and a port going.
Game 3: I keep a hand with the only hate as a port and a Trinisphere. He Cabal Therapies calling chalice. He therapies again and takes my 3-sphere before I can cast it, but I draw the nuts, into a cannonist, thalia, bob and another port. He scoops.
G5: Junk 2-0
This guy shows up late... and gets a game loss. I don't know why, but he did show up and we started off on game 2 without sideboard. I think I have the edge, but I know there's DRS.
Anyways, I don't see a lot from this game. I see a dual or two, a deathrite, and a tide hollow sculler that misses, that gets punishing fired, and a 20/20 flying eats him.
G6: ID
Totally conquered that mcdonalds sandwich and water.
Top 8:
Round 1: Goblins
Most of us want to split, someone says they don't so we play. Grrr.
Long story short:
He takes Game 1, I take game 2 after a quick crop rotation and game 3 I barely scrape by, the game goes long. He starts with T1 Goblin Lackey, I play a forest and pass. He swings, I think for a second and crop rotate into a maze and save myself. He plays a second lackey. I play tabernacle and pass, and he's forced to lose a lackey. He plays a land and plays two vials, then a third. I EE them away, and begin finding ports. I end it with a chasm lock + 4 ports, ghost quarting him out of mountains, and eventually finish him at 22 life with a marit lage swing and a punishing fire.
Round 2: Goblins
Really Hungry and tired... I want to split.. nope. Girlfriend brings me water to save the day!
AGAIN? This build is much different, mono red, no ports, and much faster and more aggro. Running multiple chieftains. Game 1, I take easily with the depth combo, game 2 is a loss (Drew 3 mox diamonds, and had 1 land for the first 6-7 turns, and game 3 takes forever, but it was so stomach wrenching. He has a fairly big army, and I'm taking damage slowly, but I dredge into a depths with a stage in hand. At some point he also dropped a blood moon, but I luckily had the Mox Diamond and Krosan Grip for it. I go for the combo, but he wastes in response, and I fall to 6, his board being Goblin Matron, Warren Instigator, Mogg War Marshall + Token, and two lackies. I dredge into maze next turn, drop maze, the destroyed dark depths, and pass. I had to hope he didn't draw a goblin lord, or something with haste. He doesn't get it, I maze the Instigator, drop to 1, and make a token for the win!
Afterthoughts: Against fair decks, Glacial Chasm + Thespian's Stage is BROKEN. I still need practice learning to keep the lock up properly, but it's amazing.
Stage + Depths is by far the best wincon. I won so many games that I had no business winning by just comboing out for their entire life total.
Crop Rotation was house all day.
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Congratulations Sparki! Where did you place overall?
Versus goblins crop rotation is gamebreaking. Tabernacle slows them down enough to get a lock on. I never even thought of stage+Chasm(again lands makes me feel dumb haha) but with that insight I think I will be going down to one thicket and up a second rotation.
Stage is really, really good with chasm. It makes it impossible for decks to simply just waste the chasm and take you out.
I actually ended up "1st", as in the top two, one of us had to concede for the planeswalker points, and my opponent gave it up.
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https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com/
RUGLegacy Lands.dec
RUGBLegacy Lands.dec
RGLegacy Lands.dec
WUBRG EDH Lands.dec
UBR EDH Artificer Prodigy
B EDH Relentless Rats
I may cut bobs from the board, they were very lackluster all day. If I did, I might add another depths in the board.
I still don't think you can classify it as combo lands just yet.
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You lose blue, you lose Tolaria west and academy ruins.
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Yes, but it will retain the age counter put at the beginning of the upkeep.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11248825#post11248825
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No, you won't pay the life unless it's a chasm. If you recopy a chasm, it'll count the age counters.
I've always liked intuition, it's so versatile and you can make so many fun piles.
Gamble and entomb are better for combo, entomb doesn't see a lot of play right now.
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In my opinion, the comparison shouldn't be between Intuition and Gamble... It should be what tutor to play in addition to Intuition: Gamble, Enlightened Tutor, Entomb, Crop Rotation, etc.
Gamble is great if you're tutoring for Life from the Loam, Punishing Fire, any land, or an artifact that you can potentially get back with Academy Ruins. Same goes for Entomb.
The problem with both of them is the not insignificant drawback of being unreliable tutors for Exploration and other enchantments. That's why I play Enlightened Tutor; I give up the ability to tutor for Loam with it (instead relying on Intuition to find them) in exchange for the relative certainty of keeping the card I tutor for (barring, of cource, interference by my opponent). If they print a convenient way to get back my enchantments if they end up in the graveyard, Gamble would likely get the nod over E. Tutor, but only in addition to Intuition/Tolaria West.
Crop Rotation gives you instant access to the Depths combo and all of the toolbox lands, in exchange for not being able to get Loam, Exploration, etc. I play two in my sideboard for match-ups where I'm not afraid of counterspells.
This is all assuming you play a blue heavy version of the deck, and thus are playing Intuition and Tolaria West. I can't really speak for the tutor choice rationale for non-blue versions of lands.
Legacy - WRG Lands, WR Shortcake, RR Burn, UBRG Delver
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Is this more of a meta call? Bob seems like he's there for the more creature light matchups like combo or for decks that might board out their removal for graveyard hate. He's made a few Miracles and Death and Taxes players look foolish for boarding out StP against me. He's also accelerated me into Karakas against Sneak and Show a few times, although I realize that is why you run rotations.
I think the decision on Dark Confidant is largely dependent on what kind of Lands build you have. From what I've gathered, Bob always fits in Intuition Lands, but can get cut from Combo Lands.
And with the recent talk of stuffing bullet lands and Dark Depths in the sideboard, is it time to bring up Living Wish again? I have seen one or two locals try to run it with interesting results.
Maybe it's just the decks I played against, but I think I only boarded in bobs twice the entire day, and I only saw one, and at the time would've preferred it be a hate card. I'll have to test it out.
Living wish is okay, but I don't really like it. It really takes up too much space in the board. The extra depths are just for postboard stuff.
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