Just checking in myself. It's tough to tell who might be scum from the past few pages. Common thought is that whoever votes someone first is generally scum, which would be MDenham, but that obviously invites a Vizzini loop. And I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in his initial vote. Not because I'm getting particularly scummy vibes from Specific, but he's clearly a very dangerous player, having two heads behind him.
How new are you?
RVS (Random Voting Stage) is regular procedure to start off a game.
Just checking in myself. It's tough to tell who might be scum from the past few pages. Common thought is that whoever votes someone first is generally scum, which would be MDenham, but that obviously invites a Vizzini loop. And I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in his initial vote. Not because I'm getting particularly scummy vibes from Specific, but he's clearly a very dangerous player, having two heads behind him.
How new are you?
RVS (Random Voting Stage) is regular procedure to start off a game.
This is my first forum Mafia. I've played a handful of IRL games, and those generally go the way of accusing the first accuser.
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I don't like how MDenham cleared Tom and me for being "too obvious" about what he voted karn for. It fits with his thing of "heavy use of mis-applied theory" that I've seen from him before, but I've never seen his scum game.
I don't believe I said I'd cleared Tom for it; just you. I don't really have enough to say one way or the other on Tom, other than that he jumped in with that after I'd said something about it. I'm trying to figure out whether that's scum trying to play up a "ha ha just serious" moment or town poking fun at the idea of that being a scumtell in the first place.
Meanwhile, however, Karn's posting has looked like "I'm going to latch onto what should be easy mislynch bait because MDenham's posting the way he did for the second half of CCM7" to me.
Just checking in myself. It's tough to tell who might be scum from the past few pages. Common thought is that whoever votes someone first is generally scum, which would be MDenham, but that obviously invites a Vizzini loop. And I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in his initial vote. Not because I'm getting particularly scummy vibes from Specific, but he's clearly a very dangerous player, having two heads behind him.
How new are you?
RVS (Random Voting Stage) is regular procedure to start off a game.
This is my first forum Mafia. I've played a handful of IRL games, and those generally go the way of accusing the first accuser.
Doesn't work like that here. Read the first ten posts of any game in this sub.
This doesn't answer my question. I asked why you seem to be losing your composure. Your posting strongly indicated that was the case. If you disagree, then you'd do better to state why you disagree rather than throwing images at me.
Wagons aren't allowed to form until everyone checks in?
I'd rather avoid tunnel vision if at all possible.
Just checking in myself. It's tough to tell who might be scum from the past few pages. Common thought is that whoever votes someone first is generally scum, which would be MDenham, but that obviously invites a Vizzini loop. And I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in his initial vote. Not because I'm getting particularly scummy vibes from Specific, but he's clearly a very dangerous player, having two heads behind him.
Do you have any concrete reads? Your post here looks like waffling to me, with some nonspecific (no pun intended) suspicion thrown at Specific for no solid reason.
Teia: How am I suppose to tell you how I disagree with a position when I don't know how you got to that position?
This reads like you're slipping. You do the Internet equivalent of raising your voice, then go right after him. It's momentary, but it does come across like your jimmies have been rustled. It's the kind of reaction that's good from an analytical standpoint. Hence me asking what was getting under your skin there.
-
Arnnaria seems to be active lurking. There are a few questions, but I'm not seeing any reads. Arnnaria, what are your reads so far and why?
Just checking in myself. It's tough to tell who might be scum from the past few pages. Common thought is that whoever votes someone first is generally scum, which would be MDenham, but that obviously invites a Vizzini loop. And I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in his initial vote. Not because I'm getting particularly scummy vibes from Specific, but he's clearly a very dangerous player, having two heads behind him.
Do you have any concrete reads? Your post here looks like waffling to me, with some nonspecific (no pun intended) suspicion thrown at Specific for no solid reason.
I don't have any concrete leads. I think there may still be something to Sir Karn and/or MDenham, but I'm not sure which and it doesn't look like both.
As far as Specific goes, I'm getting town vibes from them. It was not an accusation, just an acknowledgement that they are two very skilled players sharing an account. Given the stock mechanic, we have no idea who will be on what side tomorrow, and of the people who've posted so far, he's the one I'd least like to see on the opposing side in the future.
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Arnnaria seems to be active lurking. There are a few questions, but I'm not seeing any reads. Arnnaria, what are your reads so far and why?
I'm just absorbing it all in right now. I have a pretty nasty headcold so following this things so fast is pretty difficult for me.
I'm confused as to whether or not MDenham is claiming vanilla town or not. I think he misunderstood my "so you're claiming?" after he wrote his little thing about how vanilla town are likely to get lynched. [And it's not so much as they are considered to be mafia this early, but it's more like they are expendable so losing a non-PR isn't really a big issue this early on in the game. Just because a mislynch is a mislynch doesn't mean it doesn't build information.]
Sir Karn I think seems adamant on MDenham. I don't think we learn anything without a flip though. I doubt Karn would bus so fast so hard, but this is bastardic modding so we could have some sort of traitor situation right here so it's hard to tell.
Specific I'm fine with. It's gonna be cheeky playing with them. His concern about the stock mechanic seemed genuine.
Teia, you seem... pointed? Not everything is a grand gesture or immense theatrical effect. Some people just post what's on their mind and don't have some big crazy effect going on. And accusing someone of "active lurking" when a ton of players haven't even checked in yet makes me LOL.
Sir Karn I think seems adamant on MDenham. I don't think we learn anything without a flip though. I doubt Karn would bus so fast so hard, but this is bastardic modding so we could have some sort of traitor situation right here so it's hard to tell.
With the way the stocks work, reassigning the roles every night, I could see a case for bussing right from the start. If you believe that the town has the advantage, reducing the number of mafia players gives you a higher chance of rerolling into town while also advancing the town win-condition.
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Wow, that definitely escalated quickly. I'm not very available for posting on the weekends, FYI, so don't expect much from me between Friday 5:00pm and Monday 7:30am.
So far, everyone I know is acting exactly like I would expect them to. Teia is always aggressive so her posting is no surprise.
Unvote. Vote: Kaburi. Needlessly fencesitting in what might still have been called RVS.
Like Teia, I don't see Kaburi acting all that unusual for his personality. He's the quiet type and certainly doesn't make decisions rashly.
That being said, I'm going to have to wait until I've seen everyone before I start making judgments. I jumped the gun the first time I played and started voting based on arguments that, this early in the game, only seem to break out between townies. I'm going to have to wait until there are more complex interactions than accusations based on RVS.
This reads like you're slipping. You do the Internet equivalent of raising your voice, then go right after him. It's momentary, but it does come across like your jimmies have been rustled. It's the kind of reaction that's good from an analytical standpoint. Hence me asking what was getting under your skin there.
Not everything is a grand gesture or immense theatrical effect. Some people just post what's on their mind and don't have some big crazy effect going on.
Unvote. Vote: Kaburi. Needlessly fencesitting in what might still have been called RVS..
RVS seemed to be over, and I don't vote until I have a compelling reason. We're still so early in the game that I don't have compelling reasons, just observations.
I'm down for this wagon. No vote on kaburi's part, even though he finds at least two people to be scummy.
Again, I don't vote unless 1) it's RVS or 2) I have compelling reasons. Right now I'm still in the observational stage, with no damning actions to justify a vote.
Hell, I still have no idea what's going on in this game. I've never seen a two players/one account thing before so that's throwing off my reads, I can't rely on my normal observations of behavior because of the stock thing, RVS was basically over before I logged in yesterday so I missed all the initial interactions, and there hasn't been enough action so far for me to get anything other than an initial gutfeels reads.
Again, I don't vote unless 1) it's RVS or 2) I have compelling reasons. Right now I'm still in the observational stage, with no damning actions to justify a vote.
Hell, I still have no idea what's going on in this game. I've never seen a two players/one account thing before so that's throwing off my reads, I can't rely on my normal observations of behavior because of the stock thing, RVS was basically over before I logged in yesterday so I missed all the initial interactions, and there hasn't been enough action so far for me to get anything other than an initial gutfeels reads.
I agree that this game is kind of a cluster.
If all we've got to go on are gutfeels, and it seems like that's largely the case, what do your guts tell you?
My thought is that some or all of the scum haven't even posted yet. It seems like a smart strategy to just sit idly by while the townies pick each other apart over RVS and meaningless votes, and maybe pile on when someone gets enough votes.
Neither Helix nor Gerrard's Mom has posted yet. I'd lean towards one of them.
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If all we've got to go on are gutfeels, and it seems like that's largely the case, what do your guts tell you?
Running the list:
Neutral Leaning Town:
Jay
Teia
Arnaria
Wildfire
I don't trust anyone right now. The only stong town reads I have are Jay (and that's based on a single post that's very biased in my favor so it's not even a real read) and Teia. Given that I'm 2 for 2 on misreading Teia in past MMs, I'm not doing so hot.
Nothing from either Arnaira of Wildfire comes across as being from a scum mindset but again, less than 24 hours of this game so it's hard to really say.
Neutral:
Tom
BV
Specific
I get no read one way or the other from either of those three (er, four). The two posters/one cup thing is throwing me off with Specific specifically. I don't have a feel for Tom yet to judge, and BV's not tripping my sense one way or the other.
Neutral Leaning Scum:
Karn
Denham
ER
Like I said, I don't think the karn/Denham row is town on town, but I don't see anything definitively one way or the other here. And something about ER's posts strikes me a scummy, but I can't put my finger on it.
Null:
Helix
GM
No posts means no reads.
That's my gut feelings right now, and if there's one thing I've learned in Mafia, it's never trust my gut.
@kaburi: I voted you because that wellthatescalatedquickly.gif felt like you were distancing yourself from the discussion (like, "I'm going to watch while you guys fight", or something along those lines) and your "between Karn and MDenham, there's still scum" feels like setting up a false dichotomy.
I didn't list my reasoning because I wanted to play the Tom school of mafia and get reactions, and I see no reason why I should remove my vote.
~p
Fair enough. I meant it more as "wtf just happened, I didn't even realize the game started and now people are getting srsbns" but I can see how it would come across like that.
That being said, I'm going to have to wait until I've seen everyone before I start making judgments. I jumped the gun the first time I played and started voting based on arguments that, this early in the game, only seem to break out between townies. I'm going to have to wait until there are more complex interactions than accusations based on RVS.
ER feels null. I don't have that feeling in the back of my head about him like I did in Katuwa Shouju (or whatever the hell it's spelled), where he was scum. So maybe town. Requires more information.
Tom seems slight town.
To answer your question: You're town because of the things you have posted.
That being said, I'm going to have to wait until I've seen everyone before I start making judgments. I jumped the gun the first time I played and started voting based on arguments that, this early in the game, only seem to break out between townies. I'm going to have to wait until there are more complex interactions than accusations based on RVS.
Fair enough. I meant it more as "wtf just happened, I didn't even realize the game started and now people are getting srsbns" but I can see how it would come across like that.
Hm.
ER, are you seeing what I'm seeing, with regards to this response?
(If you get this right I'll add a new quote to your Ego sig, or something)
(I hope those images I can't see are avatars of yours. I want that to be a thing.)
~p
Oh, god. Don't remind me of House.
But yeah, that's what I considered too when I listed "distancing from the group" as one of my reasons to vote kaburi.
Considering that Tom and I (+Generic!) were in that game, I'm only waiting for him to drop the town tells. If he does, I'll promptly unvote.
Indulge me on your current reads on ER/Tom? That group makes me feel queasy, mostly in part of their RVS votes.
I swear, I feel like I'm waiting on half the group to do something townie. Teia/MDenham/ER/kaburi.
~p
I have Karn as town as said before.
Leaning town on Teia due to Megiddo's Razor™ (Teia's scum game is very good but she seems to be kinda fumbling in this game, so I'm guessing she's town)
Not loving Tom's RVS vote. To me it seems like trying to consciously push the the joke too far, faking nonchalance. I'm kinda sitting on this until I see more from him though.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
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ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
I'm down for this wagon. No vote on kaburi's part, even though he finds at least two people to be scummy.
Again, I don't vote unless 1) it's RVS or 2) I have compelling reasons. Right now I'm still in the observational stage, with no damning actions to justify a vote.
I dislike your mindset of sitting around and observing what goes on, without wanting to influence what's going on via pressure.
Also, you claimed that there was scum between two particular players. Without any "I think" type-phrases you seemed quite certain of this. And making such a claim is rather odd, if you apparently have no 'compelling reasons' behind it.
Not loving Tom's RVS vote. To me it seems like trying to consciously push the the joke too far, faking nonchalance. I'm kinda sitting on this until I see more from him though.
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
I've personally never seen a more compelling persuasion or accurate statement of facts in my life.
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
I had some time to read and take some notes, but nothing really stood out as that important, except...
MDenham's self-meta @ 33. Teia also pointed this out, and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth too.
Also, in 35 MDenham goes out of his way to say how NOT paranoid he is. Then, six posts later in 41 he goes out of his way to say how paranoid he is. I don't like this glaring contradiction here.
Teia, you seem... pointed? Not everything is a grand gesture or immense theatrical effect. Some people just post what's on their mind and don't have some big crazy effect going on. And accusing someone of "active lurking" when a ton of players haven't even checked in yet makes me LOL.
True, but everything in this game can be used for analysis. When something sticks out at me, I'll question it, then use the response to determine where to go from there.
My accusation of active lurking came from a low signal to noise ratio on your part at the time. If you'd barely posted, that would've been one thing, but you'd posted a fair bit by that point. You've posted more content, and that's good.
Like I mentioned in my above comment to Arnnaria, it stuck out at me. The feel of the post was distinctive, and it seems atypical of your normal posting structure. Hence why I decided to scrutinize it further. Your responses to me here indicate that you're basically just trying to get me to leave it alone, which tells me that something is, in fact, rustling your jimmies.
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
You're downright chomping at the bit here. My thoughts here are similar to Wildfire's thoughts here. But that's straying into WIFOM territory so I'll treat it as null for the time being.
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
I've personally never seen a more compelling persuasion or accurate statement of facts in my life.
You should all listen to this guy.
Grandstanding doesn't help. This doesn't feel townie.
Like I mentioned in my above comment to Arnnaria, it stuck out at me. The feel of the post was distinctive, and it seems atypical of your normal posting structure. Hence why I decided to scrutinize it further. Your responses to me here indicate that you're basically just trying to get me to leave it alone, which tells me that something is, in fact, rustling your jimmies.
I mean, I've got nothing to say about it. What are you expecting?
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
You're downright chomping at the bit here. My thoughts here are similar to Wildfire's thoughts here. But that's straying into WIFOM territory so I'll treat it as null for the time being.
"chomping at a bit" is an unknown phrase to me. Please elaborate.
Also, while I agree with Wildfire, this is quite different from what Wildfire is talking about. I don't see how that is relevant.
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
I've personally never seen a more compelling persuasion or accurate statement of facts in my life.
You should all listen to this guy.
Grandstanding doesn't help. This doesn't feel townie.
That's great. Vote me if you don't like it. Sitting here giving these halfass "I have a bad feeling about this" lines is terrible and you're looking more like scum with each post (either that or just bad; I'm currently unsure).
I mean, I've got nothing to say about it. What are you expecting?
Denial without pithy brush-offs, would've gotten you an entirely different response from me.
Strikeout text, all-caps bold, multiple ellipses... you can at least see why that would stick out at me.
Anyway, I've gotten all the response I need from that issue. I'll be dropping it now.
"chomping at a bit" is an unknown phrase to me. Please elaborate.
It basically means you're so excited that you're barely restrained.
-
Anyway, taking another look at things, this doesn't feel like scum ER. He doesn't seem to have that... obfuscation (I guess I'd call it) that I remember from MM5, at any rate. Feels kind of like his MM7 town play so far.
Also while I pestered Arnnaria for reasons as to the town read on Jay, I do agree that from his posting so far, he does seem townie. This post is the kind of moderate "let's not get ahead of ourselves" games need in the early stages.
Like I mentioned in my above comment to Arnnaria, it stuck out at me. The feel of the post was distinctive, and it seems atypical of your normal posting structure. Hence why I decided to scrutinize it further. Your responses to me here indicate that you're basically just trying to get me to leave it alone, which tells me that something is, in fact, rustling your jimmies.
I mean, I've got nothing to say about it. What are you expecting?
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
You're downright chomping at the bit here. My thoughts here are similar to Wildfire's thoughts here. But that's straying into WIFOM territory so I'll treat it as null for the time being.
Also, while I agree with Wildfire, this is quite different from what Wildfire is talking about. I don't see how that is relevant.
How do you see it as relevant, Teia? What was the purpose?
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
I've personally never seen a more compelling persuasion or accurate statement of facts in my life.
You should all listen to this guy.
Grandstanding doesn't help. This doesn't feel townie.
That's great. Vote me if you don't like it. Sitting here giving these halfass "I have a bad feeling about this" lines is terrible and you're looking more like scum with each post (either that or just bad; I'm currently unsure).
I agreed with Wildfire's assessment that busing right out of the gates in the hopes of rolling into town could be advantageous from a personal standpoint. But I also admitted that trying to apply this theory to you wanting to lynch MDenham strays into WIFOM territory, hence why I'm taking it as null for the time being.
As for my read on you, I'd say neutral leaning scum. You've done a bunch of suspicious things, but nothing overtly scummy like MDenham. I'll need more data before I can come to a more solid read on you.
Well Proph, Teia is likely scum so that explains that. Teia quoted Wildfire on what she is actually doing. Teia still can't explain how that quote was relevant to what she was talking to me about.
MDenham is scummier though and we only have but one lynch to give for this Day.
My answer to you was vague because I believe you are obvtown (so no explanation needed - just read your posts), and also I'm lazy.
I get back from work and the first thing I see is Karn posting like this is one of the Failcube games.
Also, Arn confirmed not reading: there is no contradiction between "I'm not paranoid enough to think that four people are going to quick-hammer me" and, well, the better example of #43's "I am the most paranoid person to ever play Mafia". The two statements clearly define a range of paranoia, and I do not believe anyone has ever been paranoid enough to think that four people would quick-hammer them in a game with fewer than about sixteen people. (Three, well, that's a different story. I can see that happening.)
Also, Arn confirmed not reading for another reason: #41 does not have anything to do with the supposed contradiction as it does not state an amount of paranoia.
Karn seems to be trying to rush a lynch, which would be stupid (and definitely scum) in a normal game but is somewhat less relevant here because of the whole reshuffle bull****. However, the whole "I'm going to be super vague about why Specific is town and just say he's obvtown" thing... yeah, that's not laziness, that's scum sucking up to town.
(That said, I agree that Specific is probably town, but that's more for a lack of points of reference right now than anything else. Could be an act; probably isn't. That's the vibe I get.)
Also, Arn confirmed not reading: there is no contradiction between "I'm not paranoid enough to think that four people are going to quick-hammer me" and, well, the better example of #43's "I am the most paranoid person to ever play Mafia". The two statements clearly define a range of paranoia, and I do not believe anyone has ever been paranoid enough to think that four people would quick-hammer them in a game with fewer than about sixteen people. (Three, well, that's a different story. I can see that happening.)
Also, Arn confirmed not reading for another reason: #41 does not have anything to do with the supposed contradiction as it does not state an amount of paranoia.
So on a range of paranoia from 1 to 10 (1 being Elmo and 10 being J. Edgar Hoover), where do you place your level of paranoia?
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
I've personally never seen a more compelling persuasion or accurate statement of facts in my life.
You should all listen to this guy.
The only people who benefit from a quick lynch are scum. Especially when roles are shuffled. You've either not thought this through or you have thought it through and are scum. With the roles shuffling, it's not like we can narrow down our list of suspects after a mislynch, because anyone we thought was scum could suddenly be town. It's far more important to not screw up the first lynch on Day 1 in this game.
What is with your rushed posting style? It'd be one thing if you were actually applying pressure to people, but you just seem to be trying to start wagons.
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
I've personally never seen a more compelling persuasion or accurate statement of facts in my life.
You should all listen to this guy.
The only people who benefit from a quick lynch are scum. Especially when roles are shuffled. You've either not thought this through or you have thought it through and are scum. With the roles shuffling, it's not like we can narrow down our list of suspects after a mislynch, because anyone we thought was scum could suddenly be town. It's far more important to not screw up the first lynch on Day 1 in this game.
What is with your rushed posting style? It'd be one thing if you were actually applying pressure to people, but you just seem to be trying to start wagons.
Do we have any idea how many scum there are? That might make a difference in what a quick lynch will look like.
It definitely does make sense for the mafia to quicklynch if they can. It's not like there's any fallout for them, as their roles get shuffled overnight. Well, unless there's a vig or something who can exact vengeance.
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Also, Arn confirmed not reading: there is no contradiction between "I'm not paranoid enough to think that four people are going to quick-hammer me" and, well, the better example of #43's "I am the most paranoid person to ever play Mafia". The two statements clearly define a range of paranoia, and I do not believe anyone has ever been paranoid enough to think that four people would quick-hammer them in a game with fewer than about sixteen people. (Three, well, that's a different story. I can see that happening.)
Also, Arn confirmed not reading for another reason: #41 does not have anything to do with the supposed contradiction as it does not state an amount of paranoia.
So on a range of paranoia from 1 to 10 (1 being Elmo and 10 being J. Edgar Hoover), where do you place your level of paranoia?
Somewhere in the high 8s or low 9s right now, but that's lower than normal because I only woke up twenty minutes ago. By the time I get off work today I would not be surprised if it's back up in the 10.5-11 range again.
ER feels null. I don't have that feeling in the back of my head about him like I did in Katuwa Shouju (or whatever the hell it's spelled), where he was scum. So maybe town. Requires more information.
Tom seems slight town.
To answer your question: You're town because of the things you have posted.
Fair, fair. Ehh, not going to get super specific reads on that group anyways; was looking for you to say "I'm not going to comment on that group of players because there is nothing to analyze" aka Megiddo in FHF, so I could clear you/instantly townread you because lack of self awareness.
What was townie about the two posts Generic and I posted? Why throw out that super vague answer?
I don't think the "lack of self awareness" thing is a valid town-tell on its own.
It's pretty weak (and might be conf'biasing it up) but I saw kaburi's "I can see how it would come across like that" like
Quote from ExpiredRascals, 179 of Empire of Astarte SpecChat »
yeah, soon as he just rolled over to seppel's case, he signed his own death warrant.
I can't remember anyone not getting lynched after going "Yeah, your case is valid"
Do you get that vibe?
There's something different between the two for me.
Trying to lend words to that gut feel, I think the difference for me is twofold:
1. kaburi is still very new which means confidence in his play is less able to be expected.
2. One says that people are understandable, the other says that the vote is understandable.
Man, something about Sir Karn going "let's lynch MDenham, listen to me guys!" and Arnn magically sheeping the vote rubs me the wrong way. Like, how does a reiteration of wanting MDenham lynched convince people?
Proph, can you link me to a ScumKarn game? I'm not seeing how this game diverges from his town play, and in both games I've played with him (KS — he was town, I was scum; Astarte — he was "pro-town" neutral hitman, I was random neutral) we Day1 lynched him for exactly this type of play.
@Teia: If you think that Sir Karn and MDenham are both scum, then how come you're following Sir Karn onto the MDenham wagon?
~p
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Just checking in myself. It's tough to tell who might be scum from the past few pages. Common thought is that whoever votes someone first is generally scum, which would be MDenham, but that obviously invites a Vizzini loop. And I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in his initial vote. Not because I'm getting particularly scummy vibes from Specific, but he's clearly a very dangerous player, having two heads behind him.
Voting for experienced players is ok even if they aren't scummy?
Voting for things that can't be voted for (nonexistent people, random groups, people not in the game including the mod) is something that I find scummy because it's a sign of trying to be noncommittal even in RVS. You and ER decided to jump right into that particular bucket of slop, and ER got a pass (and that "don't do that") because the whole multi-vote joke was too attention-drawing of a move to make sense as scum to me.
Do I get a pass too? I don't think you've said much if anything about my vote.
Why did you intentionally do a scum tell after MDenham pointed out that he thought it was scummy?
You know what sucks though, even if we catch the whole scum team toDay, only one will matter (because we can only lynch one before roles swap). And all of the interaction analysis is going to be useless come Tomorrow.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
I've personally never seen a more compelling persuasion or accurate statement of facts in my life.
You should all listen to this guy.
The only people who benefit from a quick lynch are scum. Especially when roles are shuffled. You've either not thought this through or you have thought it through and are scum. With the roles shuffling, it's not like we can narrow down our list of suspects after a mislynch, because anyone we thought was scum could suddenly be town. It's far more important to not screw up the first lynch on Day 1 in this game.
What is with your rushed posting style? It'd be one thing if you were actually applying pressure to people, but you just seem to be trying to start wagons.
Do we have any idea how many scum there are? That might make a difference in what a quick lynch will look like.
It definitely does make sense for the mafia to quicklynch if they can. It's not like there's any fallout for them, as their roles get shuffled overnight. Well, unless there's a vig or something who can exact vengeance.
I have no idea. Isn't it usually 3 in a 12 person game?
I don't really think how many there are matters when talking about today's lynch, for the same reason that a quick lynch is bad, we need to be sure of today's lynch because our suspect list may reset tomorrow.
Just checking in myself. It's tough to tell who might be scum from the past few pages. Common thought is that whoever votes someone first is generally scum, which would be MDenham, but that obviously invites a Vizzini loop. And I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in his initial vote. Not because I'm getting particularly scummy vibes from Specific, but he's clearly a very dangerous player, having two heads behind him.
Voting for experienced players is ok even if they aren't scummy?
As the very first post of the entire game, with no evidence behind it, that's the vote I'd have cast (assuming I was for whatever reason going to vote as the very first post of the entire game). Though I'm leaning towards town on Specific today, I have no idea where he'll end up tomorrow and I don't fancy the thought of having him on scum.
I have no idea. Isn't it usually 3 in a 12 person game?
I don't really think how many there are matters when talking about today's lynch, for the same reason that a quick lynch is bad, we need to be sure of today's lynch because our suspect list may reset tomorrow.
3 in 12 sounds about right, but we've got 13. I could see either 3 or 4 at those numbers. If it's four, with two people having 3 votes on them at the moment (I think), one of them probably would have gotten quicklynched by the mafia. That means that for both cases, either the accused or one of the voters has to be a mafia. That or it's <4 mafia. Or the mafia doesn't have enough coordination for a quicklynch.
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Just checking in myself. It's tough to tell who might be scum from the past few pages. Common thought is that whoever votes someone first is generally scum, which would be MDenham, but that obviously invites a Vizzini loop. And I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in his initial vote. Not because I'm getting particularly scummy vibes from Specific, but he's clearly a very dangerous player, having two heads behind him.
Voting for experienced players is ok even if they aren't scummy?
Voting for things that can't be voted for (nonexistent people, random groups, people not in the game including the mod) is something that I find scummy because it's a sign of trying to be noncommittal even in RVS. You and ER decided to jump right into that particular bucket of slop, and ER got a pass (and that "don't do that") because the whole multi-vote joke was too attention-drawing of a move to make sense as scum to me.
Do I get a pass too? I don't think you've said much if anything about my vote.
Why did you intentionally do a scum tell after MDenham pointed out that he thought it was scummy?
Just checking in myself. It's tough to tell who might be scum from the past few pages. Common thought is that whoever votes someone first is generally scum, which would be MDenham, but that obviously invites a Vizzini loop. And I'm not sure he's entirely wrong in his initial vote. Not because I'm getting particularly scummy vibes from Specific, but he's clearly a very dangerous player, having two heads behind him.
Voting for experienced players is ok even if they aren't scummy?
As the very first post of the entire game, with no evidence behind it, that's the vote I'd have cast (assuming I was for whatever reason going to vote as the very first post of the entire game). Though I'm leaning towards town on Specific today, I have no idea where he'll end up tomorrow and I don't fancy the thought of having him on scum.
I have no idea. Isn't it usually 3 in a 12 person game?
I don't really think how many there are matters when talking about today's lynch, for the same reason that a quick lynch is bad, we need to be sure of today's lynch because our suspect list may reset tomorrow.
3 in 12 sounds about right, but we've got 13. I could see either 3 or 4 at those numbers. If it's four, with two people having 3 votes on them at the moment (I think), one of them probably would have gotten quicklynched by the mafia. That means that for both cases, either the accused or one of the voters has to be a mafia. That or it's <4 mafia. Or the mafia doesn't have enough coordination for a quicklynch.
How new are you?
RVS (Random Voting Stage) is regular procedure to start off a game.
This is my first forum Mafia. I've played a handful of IRL games, and those generally go the way of accusing the first accuser.
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Meanwhile, however, Karn's posting has looked like "I'm going to latch onto what should be easy mislynch bait because MDenham's posting the way he did for the second half of CCM7" to me.
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Doesn't work like that here. Read the first ten posts of any game in this sub.
This doesn't answer my question. I asked why you seem to be losing your composure. Your posting strongly indicated that was the case. If you disagree, then you'd do better to state why you disagree rather than throwing images at me.
I'd rather avoid tunnel vision if at all possible.
Do you have any concrete reads? Your post here looks like waffling to me, with some nonspecific (no pun intended) suspicion thrown at Specific for no solid reason.
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Also, having a wagon ongoing does not equal tunnel vision. Don't fool yourself - other things can still happen while wagons are formed.
This reads like you're slipping. You do the Internet equivalent of raising your voice, then go right after him. It's momentary, but it does come across like your jimmies have been rustled. It's the kind of reaction that's good from an analytical standpoint. Hence me asking what was getting under your skin there.
-
Arnnaria seems to be active lurking. There are a few questions, but I'm not seeing any reads. Arnnaria, what are your reads so far and why?
Vote Count:
Sir Karn (2) - MDenham, BlackVise
MDenham (2) - Sir Karn, Teia Rabishu
kaburi (3) - Specific, ExpiredRascals, Tom
Not voting (6) - Jay13x, kaburi, Gerrard's Mom, Arnnaria, Helix, Wildfire393
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I don't have any concrete leads. I think there may still be something to Sir Karn and/or MDenham, but I'm not sure which and it doesn't look like both.
As far as Specific goes, I'm getting town vibes from them. It was not an accusation, just an acknowledgement that they are two very skilled players sharing an account. Given the stock mechanic, we have no idea who will be on what side tomorrow, and of the people who've posted so far, he's the one I'd least like to see on the opposing side in the future.
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I'm just absorbing it all in right now. I have a pretty nasty headcold so following this things so fast is pretty difficult for me.
I'm confused as to whether or not MDenham is claiming vanilla town or not. I think he misunderstood my "so you're claiming?" after he wrote his little thing about how vanilla town are likely to get lynched. [And it's not so much as they are considered to be mafia this early, but it's more like they are expendable so losing a non-PR isn't really a big issue this early on in the game. Just because a mislynch is a mislynch doesn't mean it doesn't build information.]
Sir Karn I think seems adamant on MDenham. I don't think we learn anything without a flip though. I doubt Karn would bus so fast so hard, but this is bastardic modding so we could have some sort of traitor situation right here so it's hard to tell.
Specific I'm fine with. It's gonna be cheeky playing with them. His concern about the stock mechanic seemed genuine.
Teia, you seem... pointed? Not everything is a grand gesture or immense theatrical effect. Some people just post what's on their mind and don't have some big crazy effect going on. And accusing someone of "active lurking" when a ton of players haven't even checked in yet makes me LOL.
With the way the stocks work, reassigning the roles every night, I could see a case for bussing right from the start. If you believe that the town has the advantage, reducing the number of mafia players gives you a higher chance of rerolling into town while also advancing the town win-condition.
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So far, everyone I know is acting exactly like I would expect them to. Teia is always aggressive so her posting is no surprise.
Like Teia, I don't see Kaburi acting all that unusual for his personality. He's the quiet type and certainly doesn't make decisions rashly.
That being said, I'm going to have to wait until I've seen everyone before I start making judgments. I jumped the gun the first time I played and started voting based on arguments that, this early in the game, only seem to break out between townies. I'm going to have to wait until there are more complex interactions than accusations based on RVS.
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"Like [I'm] slipping"? lol
Clearly you've never played with me. There's a reason I'm the Official Social Anxiety Mod™.
...so...you going to actually say more?
RVS seemed to be over, and I don't vote until I have a compelling reason. We're still so early in the game that I don't have compelling reasons, just observations.
Again, I don't vote unless 1) it's RVS or 2) I have compelling reasons. Right now I'm still in the observational stage, with no damning actions to justify a vote.
Hell, I still have no idea what's going on in this game. I've never seen a two players/one account thing before so that's throwing off my reads, I can't rely on my normal observations of behavior because of the stock thing, RVS was basically over before I logged in yesterday so I missed all the initial interactions, and there hasn't been enough action so far for me to get anything other than an initial gutfeels reads.
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I agree that this game is kind of a cluster.
If all we've got to go on are gutfeels, and it seems like that's largely the case, what do your guts tell you?
My thought is that some or all of the scum haven't even posted yet. It seems like a smart strategy to just sit idly by while the townies pick each other apart over RVS and meaningless votes, and maybe pile on when someone gets enough votes.
Neither Helix nor Gerrard's Mom has posted yet. I'd lean towards one of them.
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Running the list:
Neutral Leaning Town:
Jay
Teia
Arnaria
Wildfire
I don't trust anyone right now. The only stong town reads I have are Jay (and that's based on a single post that's very biased in my favor so it's not even a real read) and Teia. Given that I'm 2 for 2 on misreading Teia in past MMs, I'm not doing so hot.
Nothing from either Arnaira of Wildfire comes across as being from a scum mindset but again, less than 24 hours of this game so it's hard to really say.
Neutral:
Tom
BV
Specific
I get no read one way or the other from either of those three (er, four). The two posters/one cup thing is throwing me off with Specific specifically. I don't have a feel for Tom yet to judge, and BV's not tripping my sense one way or the other.
Neutral Leaning Scum:
Karn
Denham
ER
Like I said, I don't think the karn/Denham row is town on town, but I don't see anything definitively one way or the other here. And something about ER's posts strikes me a scummy, but I can't put my finger on it.
Null:
Helix
GM
No posts means no reads.
That's my gut feelings right now, and if there's one thing I've learned in Mafia, it's never trust my gut.
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Fair enough. I meant it more as "wtf just happened, I didn't even realize the game started and now people are getting srsbns" but I can see how it would come across like that.
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I just don't see this coming from a scum mindset.
I don't know what your question was.
I want to watch Kaburi further. Currently he reminds me of LnGrrrR in House.
Tom seems slight town.
To answer your question: You're town because of the things you have posted.
I don't know, so probably not.
No sig quote for me
What are you seeing?
I have Karn as town as said before.
Leaning town on Teia due to Megiddo's Razor™ (Teia's scum game is very good but she seems to be kinda fumbling in this game, so I'm guessing she's town)
Not loving Tom's RVS vote. To me it seems like trying to consciously push the the joke too far, faking nonchalance. I'm kinda sitting on this until I see more from him though.
Kaburi & MDenham as scummish.
Everyone else I don't have much of note on.
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I dislike your mindset of sitting around and observing what goes on, without wanting to influence what's going on via pressure.
Also, you claimed that there was scum between two particular players. Without any "I think" type-phrases you seemed quite certain of this. And making such a claim is rather odd, if you apparently have no 'compelling reasons' behind it.
My RVS was infinitely better than yours.
So let's just lynch MDenham.
I've personally never seen a more compelling persuasion or accurate statement of facts in my life.
You should all listen to this guy.
I had some time to read and take some notes, but nothing really stood out as that important, except...
MDenham's self-meta @ 33. Teia also pointed this out, and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth too.
Also, in 35 MDenham goes out of his way to say how NOT paranoid he is. Then, six posts later in 41 he goes out of his way to say how paranoid he is. I don't like this glaring contradiction here.
I'm ready to vote.
Vote MDenham
True, but everything in this game can be used for analysis. When something sticks out at me, I'll question it, then use the response to determine where to go from there.
My accusation of active lurking came from a low signal to noise ratio on your part at the time. If you'd barely posted, that would've been one thing, but you'd posted a fair bit by that point. You've posted more content, and that's good.
Reasons? All I see is this, which seems kind of scant to base a read on.
Like I mentioned in my above comment to Arnnaria, it stuck out at me. The feel of the post was distinctive, and it seems atypical of your normal posting structure. Hence why I decided to scrutinize it further. Your responses to me here indicate that you're basically just trying to get me to leave it alone, which tells me that something is, in fact, rustling your jimmies.
You're downright chomping at the bit here. My thoughts here are similar to Wildfire's thoughts here. But that's straying into WIFOM territory so I'll treat it as null for the time being.
Grandstanding doesn't help. This doesn't feel townie.
I mean, I've got nothing to say about it. What are you expecting?
"chomping at a bit" is an unknown phrase to me. Please elaborate.
Also, while I agree with Wildfire, this is quite different from what Wildfire is talking about. I don't see how that is relevant.
That's great. Vote me if you don't like it. Sitting here giving these halfass "I have a bad feeling about this" lines is terrible and you're looking more like scum with each post (either that or just bad; I'm currently unsure).
Denial without pithy brush-offs, would've gotten you an entirely different response from me.
Strikeout text, all-caps bold, multiple ellipses... you can at least see why that would stick out at me.
Anyway, I've gotten all the response I need from that issue. I'll be dropping it now.
It basically means you're so excited that you're barely restrained.
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Anyway, taking another look at things, this doesn't feel like scum ER. He doesn't seem to have that... obfuscation (I guess I'd call it) that I remember from MM5, at any rate. Feels kind of like his MM7 town play so far.
Also while I pestered Arnnaria for reasons as to the town read on Jay, I do agree that from his posting so far, he does seem townie. This post is the kind of moderate "let's not get ahead of ourselves" games need in the early stages.
How do you see it as relevant, Teia? What was the purpose?
Do you think I'm scum?
As for my read on you, I'd say neutral leaning scum. You've done a bunch of suspicious things, but nothing overtly scummy like MDenham. I'll need more data before I can come to a more solid read on you.
MDenham is scummier though and we only have but one lynch to give for this Day.
My answer to you was vague because I believe you are obvtown (so no explanation needed - just read your posts), and also I'm lazy.
Also, Arn confirmed not reading: there is no contradiction between "I'm not paranoid enough to think that four people are going to quick-hammer me" and, well, the better example of #43's "I am the most paranoid person to ever play Mafia". The two statements clearly define a range of paranoia, and I do not believe anyone has ever been paranoid enough to think that four people would quick-hammer them in a game with fewer than about sixteen people. (Three, well, that's a different story. I can see that happening.)
Also, Arn confirmed not reading for another reason: #41 does not have anything to do with the supposed contradiction as it does not state an amount of paranoia.
Karn seems to be trying to rush a lynch, which would be stupid (and definitely scum) in a normal game but is somewhat less relevant here because of the whole reshuffle bull****. However, the whole "I'm going to be super vague about why Specific is town and just say he's obvtown" thing... yeah, that's not laziness, that's scum sucking up to town.
(That said, I agree that Specific is probably town, but that's more for a lack of points of reference right now than anything else. Could be an act; probably isn't. That's the vibe I get.)
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So on a range of paranoia from 1 to 10 (1 being Elmo and 10 being J. Edgar Hoover), where do you place your level of paranoia?
The only people who benefit from a quick lynch are scum. Especially when roles are shuffled. You've either not thought this through or you have thought it through and are scum. With the roles shuffling, it's not like we can narrow down our list of suspects after a mislynch, because anyone we thought was scum could suddenly be town. It's far more important to not screw up the first lynch on Day 1 in this game.
What is with your rushed posting style? It'd be one thing if you were actually applying pressure to people, but you just seem to be trying to start wagons.
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Do we have any idea how many scum there are? That might make a difference in what a quick lynch will look like.
It definitely does make sense for the mafia to quicklynch if they can. It's not like there's any fallout for them, as their roles get shuffled overnight. Well, unless there's a vig or something who can exact vengeance.
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Maybe the vote on MDenham was enough for me to like you.
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I haven't read anything yet
I don't think the "lack of self awareness" thing is a valid town-tell on its own.
There's something different between the two for me.
Trying to lend words to that gut feel, I think the difference for me is twofold:
1. kaburi is still very new which means confidence in his play is less able to be expected.
2. One says that people are understandable, the other says that the vote is understandable.
Proph, can you link me to a ScumKarn game? I'm not seeing how this game diverges from his town play, and in both games I've played with him (KS — he was town, I was scum; Astarte — he was "pro-town" neutral hitman, I was random neutral) we Day1 lynched him for exactly this type of play.
Hold the phone... Teia, I want an answer on Prophylaxis' question. I can explain why later.
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Voting for experienced players is ok even if they aren't scummy?
Why did you intentionally do a scum tell after MDenham pointed out that he thought it was scummy?
I have no idea. Isn't it usually 3 in a 12 person game?
I don't really think how many there are matters when talking about today's lynch, for the same reason that a quick lynch is bad, we need to be sure of today's lynch because our suspect list may reset tomorrow.
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As the very first post of the entire game, with no evidence behind it, that's the vote I'd have cast (assuming I was for whatever reason going to vote as the very first post of the entire game). Though I'm leaning towards town on Specific today, I have no idea where he'll end up tomorrow and I don't fancy the thought of having him on scum.
3 in 12 sounds about right, but we've got 13. I could see either 3 or 4 at those numbers. If it's four, with two people having 3 votes on them at the moment (I think), one of them probably would have gotten quicklynched by the mafia. That means that for both cases, either the accused or one of the voters has to be a mafia. That or it's <4 mafia. Or the mafia doesn't have enough coordination for a quicklynch.
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I like this guy.
I'm disliking this guy.