I mean there is no guarantee that the NK target would still be on the scum team in the following Days. Could be that his teammates saw him as a potential future threat and wanted to knock him out of the game early. Could be he saw this game from his POV as mafia team favored and wanted to secure a slot on it by suicide.
It's a whole bag of what the hell are we doing in Death Valley WIFOM, as is Tom's scum team reveal. I mean did he reveal the team to do a meta based throw us off their tracks later? Play the card for town points toDay? Straight up fake scum team?
It doesn't help us figure out a good target toDay is all I know.
Though if Tom's claim is 100% true, I laugh. Poor, poor target choice of vanilla.
Tom's scum team reveal isn't completely wine. Once wildfire gets here, we will be able to verify the veracity of much of it.
Everything Tom said was correct.
While I mostly agree with his analysis that revealing what we attempted to do would give the Mafia information, I still feel like it's to our advantage to have that information out there.
We attempted to kill a player. That player was protected by a doctor-type role.
ER got vigged. The knowledge that a vig is out there should affect how the scum play, because a quicklynch will give them away and get them revenge-vigged. I'm happy with that logic out there, because if I end up at L-2, I'd rather not be under the threat of a quickhammer (even if it means we get to vig one after).
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Funny I've scumread Tom every game I see him in (even spectating or reading after it's over), and the first time I decide to not pursue that is the first time he's scum - that I've read.
There are 2 scum left obviously, one of them is vanilla (wildfire yesterday) and the other has a day shot role cop ability (me yesterday). They have dawn chat, day chat, night chat... all-the-time chat.
That seems like it takes a setup already skewed in the scum's favour (what with long-term behavioural analysis being far more difficult than normal in light of alignment changes) and gives them another advantage. I have to question this statement's validity.
Also, that cloying "I may or may not know something about the PRs" thing just makes me think you're still scum and are just ****ing with the town by pointing fingers and stirring up confusion. If you've got something to say, say it. Otherwise you're just bull****ting us.
Knowing in slightly more detail what happened last night will give the town better information to judge claims in the future. Does anyone think this amount of information getting out to the current scum would be a liability?
The odds of this seem quite remote to me. Even if, say, he said who they tried to nightkill, it wouldn't say why that kill was stopped. Bandying about that you're intentionally hiding information is not a pro-town thing to do.
I'd rather not be under the threat of a quickhammer (even if it means we get to vig one after).
Personally, I'd gladly let myself get quickhammered if it meant one of the scum got vigged for it. This statement of yours seems to come from a self-preservation mindset, which isn't pro-town at all in that context.
Wildfire, do you have any specific information about a vig? I recall reminding myself that you were babbling about a serial killer yesterday.
In theory there could be a SK instead of a vig (though it was specific who planted the idea), but the fact that the most obvious scum got hit says to me vig is more likely.
Funny I've scumread Tom every game I see him in (even spectating or reading after it's over), and the first time I decide to not pursue that is the first time he's scum - that I've read.
There are 2 scum left obviously, one of them is vanilla (wildfire yesterday) and the other has a day shot role cop ability (me yesterday). They have dawn chat, day chat, night chat... all-the-time chat.
That seems like it takes a setup already skewed in the scum's favour (what with long-term behavioural analysis being far more difficult than normal in light of alignment changes) and gives them another advantage. I have to question this statement's validity.
Also, that cloying "I may or may not know something about the PRs" thing just makes me think you're still scum and are just ****ing with the town by pointing fingers and stirring up confusion. If you've got something to say, say it. Otherwise you're just bull****ting us.
Knowing in slightly more detail what happened last night will give the town better information to judge claims in the future. Does anyone think this amount of information getting out to the current scum would be a liability?
The odds of this seem quite remote to me. Even if, say, he said who they tried to nightkill, it wouldn't say why that kill was stopped. Bandying about that you're intentionally hiding information is not a pro-town thing to do.
I'd rather not be under the threat of a quickhammer (even if it means we get to vig one after).
Personally, I'd gladly let myself get quickhammered if it meant one of the scum got vigged for it. This statement of yours seems to come from a self-preservation mindset, which isn't pro-town at all in that context.
But if we are good we can lynch one and vig the other.
Also Tom's statements were accurate
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I mean there is no guarantee that the NK target would still be on the scum team in the following Days. Could be that his teammates saw him as a potential future threat and wanted to knock him out of the game early. Could be he saw this game from his POV as mafia team favored and wanted to secure a slot on it by suicide.
It's a whole bag of what the hell are we doing in Death Valley WIFOM, as is Tom's scum team reveal. I mean did he reveal the team to do a meta based throw us off their tracks later? Play the card for town points toDay? Straight up fake scum team?
It doesn't help us figure out a good target toDay is all I know.
Though if Tom's claim is 100% true, I laugh. Poor, poor target choice of vanilla.
I find it very hard to believe that Tom and Wildfire decided to kill ER or that ER wanted to suicide for the posthumous win or that the three of them would agree on either of these ideas
nice try at sowing doubt on Tom's town reveal though
I have a good target toDay
also what is "poor poor target choice of vanilla" supposed to mean?
also also how much Mafia have you played in the past
just go on facepalming about Wildfire giving out info and then asking him for "specific information" about a vig next post
because I'm sure that you are doing that with a town mindset
But wildfire, you get a win even if you are killed in the line of duty.
Why on earth do you reveal that a quickhammer kills a scum when you could've gotten yourself quickhammered and gotten another scum killed?
This is illogical play. And it paints you in a really, really horrible light.
"hey Wildfire you speculated something that two other people have already speculated and you forgot the possibility that the scum have no brains and cannot derive obvious information, I am casting mud on you because you are a noob and I think I can mislynch you"
-Arnaria
*nothing personal, being a wild dick is the funnest way to play
But wildfire, you get a win even if you are killed in the line of duty.
Why on earth do you reveal that a quickhammer kills a scum when you could've gotten yourself quickhammered and gotten another scum killed?
This is illogical play. And it paints you in a really, really horrible light.
"hey Wildfire you speculated something that two other people have already speculated and you forgot the possibility that the scum have no brains and cannot derive obvious information, I am casting mud on you because you are a noob and I think I can mislynch you"
-Arnaria
*nothing personal, being a wild dick is the funnest way to play
just go on facepalming about Wildfire giving out info and then asking him for "specific information" about a vig next post
because I'm sure that you are doing that with a town mindset
Thank you.
There's no point pretending there's not a vig as any kind of self-lynch to throw off future scum plan makes far too many assumptions and would require us to have somehow known as scum that there was not a vig.
Also revealing the doc only helps the town, as it forces the scum to rethink any obvious lynch target of someone who claims powers, without making the doc actually vulnerable himself. This gives us the ability to make better use of any cop type roles we may have.
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@Gerrard's Mom: You can't figure out "Poor poor choice of Vanilla"?
Vanilla: a role in mafia games that has no extra abilities attached.
That's what I was. So I can confirm there is at least one or more Vanilla town roles left in the game. Can't let the mafia team have it too easy who to roleblock now can we?
Also my expirience is not too deep. Four games completed total. Two on site (Drury Lane and Futurama) and two off site. Can provide links if you want.
There are 2 scum left obviously, one of them is vanilla (wildfire yesterday) and the other has a day shot role cop ability (me yesterday). They have dawn chat, day chat, night chat... all-the-time chat.
Reading is tech.
-
Also "if we are good we can lynch one and vig the other." Yes, that's a possibility, but it's still showing an anti-town mindset. You're demonstrating that you'd rather (conceptually at least) cut off an avenue for getting scum killed than have all the (again, conceptual) options available. Yes, it may be obvious that there's a vig. But how you treat that information is important, and an "I don't want to die even if I get scum killed too" mentality is quite telling.
Also I fail to see how revealing the doctor could help, other than letting the scum know who to kill. What's to stop the scum from just shooting the doctor overnight?
But wildfire, you get a win even if you are killed in the line of duty.
Why on earth do you reveal that a quickhammer kills a scum when you could've gotten yourself quickhammered and gotten another scum killed?
This is illogical play. And it paints you in a really, really horrible light.
"hey Wildfire you speculated something that two other people have already speculated and you forgot the possibility that the scum have no brains and cannot derive obvious information, I am casting mud on you because you are a noob and I think I can mislynch you"
-Arnaria
*nothing personal, being a wild dick is the funnest way to play
I'm pretty sure he would have told anyone who bothered to ask...
Well then he should be able to tell us.
@Mod: Are everyone's roles and alignments completely randomized every Dawn?
Yes. For an in-depth answer, we'll take a look at a hypothetical set up.
So at end of night, has 2 town vanillas, a town bomb, a mafia goon and a mafia godfather living.
So N1, it could be this:
Player A is Vanilla
Player B is Bomb
Player C is Godfather
Player D is Vanilla
Player E is Goon
At Dawn 2, using random.org, I take the living roles and shuffle them around, so it might look like this:
Player A is Bomb
Player B is Goon
Player C is Vanilla
Player D is Vanilla
Player E is Godfather
As you can see, Player D received Vanilla again, and because I'm using random, it is possible for players to receive the same role they had yesterDay. Also, we see that Player A, Player D and Player E are still on the same teams while Player B and player C switched sides.
I hope that answers everyone's questions.
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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But wildfire, you get a win even if you are killed in the line of duty.
Why on earth do you reveal that a quickhammer kills a scum when you could've gotten yourself quickhammered and gotten another scum killed?
This is illogical play. And it paints you in a really, really horrible light.
"hey Wildfire you speculated something that two other people have already speculated and you forgot the possibility that the scum have no brains and cannot derive obvious information, I am casting mud on you because you are a noob and I think I can mislynch you"
-Arnaria
*nothing personal, being a wild dick is the funnest way to play
And I mean poor as in a poor choice from their end.
Oh I finally pieced this together, but your predecessor MDenham was pretty aggro at the start and I can see ER thinking he had some sort of role. It looks to me like you are just trying to set up a towny appearance by claiming to have been harmless vanilla, it doesn't really add any useful information.
But wildfire, you get a win even if you are killed in the line of duty.
Why on earth do you reveal that a quickhammer kills a scum when you could've gotten yourself quickhammered and gotten another scum killed?
This is illogical play. And it paints you in a really, really horrible light.
"hey Wildfire you speculated something that two other people have already speculated and you forgot the possibility that the scum have no brains and cannot derive obvious information, I am casting mud on you because you are a noob and I think I can mislynch you"
-Arnaria
*nothing personal, being a wild dick is the funnest way to play
So we're certain Wildfire is town? Why GM?
Because you and Shockwave are the scums and there are only 2 left
Tom/Wildfire: ER's role says "For Day 1, you have hired..." Was there any indication that the scum powers might change over time?
I am fine to lynch Arnnaria as well. We're closer to getting a claim out of him so I'm going to go ahead and switch to him.
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Tom, I would say there are town ploys that can benefit from the knowledge that we have some protective role, if that's what you're worried about.
Actually, I might as well claim now since two more votes leads to a quickhammer but GM seems not to be worried about that at all with his misplaced vote.
I'm Proctor and Gamble.
Yesterday I was the town vig. I had my heart shooting on MDenham so I decided I was going to shoot him. When Sir Karn made that horrendous post, I opted to change my vote since my heart was already set on shooting MDenham. Ergo, my vote was more symbolic and it didn't matter as much as it needed to. So I changed my vote because, y'know, because I already had this target. This was caught by Karn and a few others and I had to back peddle out of it with some lies to make sure I could fire my shot last night. After ER came in as obvscum and shot first and asked questions later, I decided to shoot the surefire target.
Surprisingly enough, I am the town vig tonight as well. I already PM'ed TK a long time ago and asked if the vig shoots me and I shoot someone else if the NK will go through and if the vig will go through simultaneously. He says it will, so I am willing to use my vig shot tonight as an extra vote.
Surprisingly enough, I am the town vig tonight as well. I already PM'ed TK a long time ago and asked if the Scum shoots me and I shoot someone else if the NK will go through and if the vig will go through simultaneously. He says it will, so I am willing to use my vig shot tonight as an extra vote.
Because you and Shockwave are the scums and there are only 2 left
Tom/Wildfire: ER's role says "For Day 1, you have hired..." Was there any indication that the scum powers might change over time?
I am fine to lynch Arnnaria as well. We're closer to getting a claim out of him so I'm going to go ahead and switch to him.
Unvote
Vote Arnnaria
Tom, I would say there are town ploys that can benefit from the knowledge that we have some protective role, if that's what you're worried about.
I'm pretty sure the "for day 1, you have hired" reflects the fact that your role can change each night. The way TK has explained swapping is that the roles for each side are set, just the people who end up filling them change each day. So we absolutely know that there is one vanilla scum and one day-shot rolecop scum.
You don't understand GM. You claim that Wildifre is a "mislynch". Sounds a lot like outside information to me.
As for the wagon, I would respond if there was anything to respond to. But bad wagon is bad.
If I was scum, the proper play would have been to cast doubt onto Tom's information, making him appear scummy and denying the town info. I'm trying to give the town as much as possible to work with.
Actually, I might as well claim now since two more votes leads to a quickhammer but GM seems not to be worried about that at all with his misplaced vote.
I'm Proctor and Gamble.
Yesterday I was the town vig. I had my heart shooting on MDenham so I decided I was going to shoot him. When Sir Karn made that horrendous post, I opted to change my vote since my heart was already set on shooting MDenham. Ergo, my vote was more symbolic and it didn't matter as much as it needed to. So I changed my vote because, y'know, because I already had this target. This was caught by Karn and a few others and I had to back peddle out of it with some lies to make sure I could fire my shot last night. After ER came in as obvscum and shot first and asked questions later, I decided to shoot the surefire target.
Surprisingly enough, I am the town vig tonight as well. I already PM'ed TK a long time ago and asked if the vig shoots me and I shoot someone else if the NK will go through and if the vig will go through simultaneously. He says it will, so I am willing to use my vig shot tonight as an extra vote.
Here's an example of a claim that is made much safer by the knowledge of the doc role. Now we can back off from lynching our Vig, and the doc can choose to save him overnight, which is overall a fairly major town win.
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@The rolecop: Check Arnnaria and tell us if he's lying.
It's a little suspect that he'd end up twice in a row, but there is a 1/11 chance of that so it's not impossible.
I'd like to see an actual quote from his role PM. The wording should be able to tip us off as to whether he's telling the truth.
I'd rather not have to out our role cop as well as our vig, because that gives the scum more targets than we (probably) have doctors to defend.
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@The rolecop: Check Arnnaria and tell us if he's lying.
It's a little suspect that he'd end up twice in a row, but there is a 1/11 chance of that so it's not impossible.
I'd like to see an actual quote from his role PM. The wording should be able to tip us off as to whether he's telling the truth.
I'd rather not have to out our role cop as well as our vig, because that gives the scum more targets than we (probably) have doctors to defend.
Ergh. I just realized that if he was the vig day 1 and not day 2 he could just copy the text from day 1 over, so asking for a quote is unhelpful.
On the other hand, if we ask for a role cop, one of the scum could claim to be the role cop and claim Arn to be mafia. Then we mislynch Arn and don't even have a vig to exact vengeance on the liar.
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4. Do not quote your Role PMs. Divulging business secrets is a losing race. (Another modkill offense.) You may quote your company name, your allegiance, and powers.
4. Do not quote your Role PMs. Divulging business secrets is a losing race. (Another modkill offense.) You may quote your company name, your allegiance, and powers.
How do you know there is a rolecop, Karn? Are you referring to the scum role that Tom mentioned?
Arn, I understand what you're saying, I came out of the exchange reading Wildfire as town and you as scum and I was describing your hypothetical intentions in painting him in a bad light.
Given that we are told the scum roleblocker died, vig is a verifiable claim. That is assuming you still have shots. Does the town really get a kill every night?
Do we have any idea if roles can switch alignments?
I am fine to lynch Arnnaria as well. We're closer to getting a claim out of him so I'm going to go ahead and switch to him.
You were four away from a claim. Now you are three with your vote. That isn't "closer" by any stretch of the imagination.
Why are we so trigger happy today GM?
6 to lynch, L-2 is four votes. I needed two more people to vote Shockwave to get there and get his claim, but only one more on you to put you at L-2. I had already made it clear that you were my other main suspect, so I was happy to vote you.
I'm going to keep my vote where it is until everyone has checked in on the claim.
Also "if we are good we can lynch one and vig the other." Yes, that's a possibility, but it's still showing an anti-town mindset. You're demonstrating that you'd rather (conceptually at least) cut off an avenue for getting scum killed than have all the (again, conceptual) options available. Yes, it may be obvious that there's a vig. But how you treat that information is important, and an "I don't want to die even if I get scum killed too" mentality is quite telling.
Also I fail to see how revealing the doctor could help, other than letting the scum know who to kill. What's to stop the scum from just shooting the doctor overnight?
Is this responding to me? Where are you seeing "I don't want to die even if I get scum killed too?" Who suggested revealing the doctor?
I was asking the scum!rolecop in a manner to where I made it sound like I thought the rolecop was town and maybe he'd tell us thinking it was safe lol.
It was worth a shot
Anyway, I find it crazy if this is an unlimited about vig. But I won't lynch our claimed vig in this game if it really is multiple shots. If someone CCs it could easily be scum and then we'd have to figure out which is scum of the CC and Arnnaria.
Unless that happens though: unvote.
I don't remember what GMom said toDay. I can read later.
Ok, I thought maybe Karn had some reason to believe there was a town rolecop (like he was one on Day 1). Arnnaria and Shockwave are still my top suspects for investigation at this point but we haven't heard much from Jay, BV, kaburi and Teia yet.
I only realized today that Arn's claim is NOT verifiable since there are no guarantees he would be the vig tomorrow. Barring a counterclaim, I buy that he was the vig yesterday, but my guess is that the role reverts to vanilla after being used or something and he is just running that fake claim to avoid being lynched today.
I haven't checked in detail but I thought Karn was good in putting out pressure yesterday and feel like he has kept it up. I don't have any reason to believe he has switched to scum at this time.
I only realized today that Arn's claim is NOT verifiable since there are no guarantees he would be the vig tomorrow. Barring a counterclaim, I buy that he was the vig yesterday, but my guess is that the role reverts to vanilla after being used or something and he is just running that fake claim to avoid being lynched today.
Ok, I thought maybe Karn had some reason to believe there was a town rolecop (like he was one on Day 1). Arnnaria and Shockwave are still my top suspects for investigation at this point but we haven't heard much from Jay, BV, kaburi and Teia yet.
I only realized today that Arn's claim is NOT verifiable since there are no guarantees he would be the vig tomorrow. Barring a counterclaim, I buy that he was the vig yesterday, but my guess is that the role reverts to vanilla after being used or something and he is just running that fake claim to avoid being lynched today.
I haven't checked in detail but I thought Karn was good in putting out pressure yesterday and feel like he has kept it up. I don't have any reason to believe he has switched to scum at this time.
Go read TK's explanation of the setup that he posted toDay again.
Ok, I thought maybe Karn had some reason to believe there was a town rolecop (like he was one on Day 1). Arnnaria and Shockwave are still my top suspects for investigation at this point but we haven't heard much from Jay, BV, kaburi and Teia yet.
I only realized today that Arn's claim is NOT verifiable since there are no guarantees he would be the vig tomorrow. Barring a counterclaim, I buy that he was the vig yesterday, but my guess is that the role reverts to vanilla after being used or something and he is just running that fake claim to avoid being lynched today.
I haven't checked in detail but I thought Karn was good in putting out pressure yesterday and feel like he has kept it up. I don't have any reason to believe he has switched to scum at this time.
I can buy that town has a repeatable-use Vig. With roles randomizing each day, it can be very difficult for the Vig to be certain on their kill unless the scum does something obvious like yesterDay's quicklynch. A trigger-happy Vig works against the town.
However, having a repeatable Vig means that the scum can't just quicklynch every Day and get away with it.
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I don't think an X-shot role would revert to a vanilla role upon spending its last shot.
This is out guess the mod area, but I feel this would create an unfair environment if we ever chose to do a massclaim or someone full claimed and someone who had said role recognized an inconsistency with the original role.
The other way the only thing that is helped is the person coming into the spent role avoiding confusion once they recieve it. I am disinclined to believe this is the route taken, but this is a bastard rules game so this can be an area of unfairness.
Would have to see the role myself to say for sure and talking the mods version.
I mean there is no guarantee that the NK target would still be on the scum team in the following Days. Could be that his teammates saw him as a potential future threat and wanted to knock him out of the game early. Could be he saw this game from his POV as mafia team favored and wanted to secure a slot on it by suicide.
It's a whole bag of what the hell are we doing in Death Valley WIFOM, as is Tom's scum team reveal. I mean did he reveal the team to do a meta based throw us off their tracks later? Play the card for town points toDay? Straight up fake scum team?
It doesn't help us figure out a good target toDay is all I know.
Though if Tom's claim is 100% true, I laugh. Poor, poor target choice of vanilla.
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Everything Tom said was correct.
While I mostly agree with his analysis that revealing what we attempted to do would give the Mafia information, I still feel like it's to our advantage to have that information out there.
We attempted to kill a player. That player was protected by a doctor-type role.
ER got vigged. The knowledge that a vig is out there should affect how the scum play, because a quicklynch will give them away and get them revenge-vigged. I'm happy with that logic out there, because if I end up at L-2, I'd rather not be under the threat of a quickhammer (even if it means we get to vig one after).
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Well then he should be able to tell us.
@Mod: Are everyone's roles and alignments completely randomized every Dawn?
Funny I've scumread Tom every game I see him in (even spectating or reading after it's over), and the first time I decide to not pursue that is the first time he's scum - that I've read.
Also, you can thank me later, Generic and Prophy
That seems like it takes a setup already skewed in the scum's favour (what with long-term behavioural analysis being far more difficult than normal in light of alignment changes) and gives them another advantage. I have to question this statement's validity.
Also, that cloying "I may or may not know something about the PRs" thing just makes me think you're still scum and are just ****ing with the town by pointing fingers and stirring up confusion. If you've got something to say, say it. Otherwise you're just bull****ting us.
The odds of this seem quite remote to me. Even if, say, he said who they tried to nightkill, it wouldn't say why that kill was stopped. Bandying about that you're intentionally hiding information is not a pro-town thing to do.
Personally, I'd gladly let myself get quickhammered if it meant one of the scum got vigged for it. This statement of yours seems to come from a self-preservation mindset, which isn't pro-town at all in that context.
In theory there could be a SK instead of a vig (though it was specific who planted the idea), but the fact that the most obvious scum got hit says to me vig is more likely.
Working on it. It's tough.
Sorry. Everyone was yelling at Tom for not revealing this info.
But if we are good we can lynch one and vig the other.
Also Tom's statements were accurate
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Why on earth do you reveal that a quickhammer kills a scum when you could've gotten yourself quickhammered and gotten another scum killed?
This is illogical play. And it paints you in a really, really horrible light.
I find it very hard to believe that Tom and Wildfire decided to kill ER or that ER wanted to suicide for the posthumous win or that the three of them would agree on either of these ideas
nice try at sowing doubt on Tom's town reveal though
I have a good target toDay
also what is "poor poor target choice of vanilla" supposed to mean?
also also how much Mafia have you played in the past
Your candor is amusing.
because I'm sure that you are doing that with a town mindset
"hey Wildfire you speculated something that two other people have already speculated and you forgot the possibility that the scum have no brains and cannot derive obvious information, I am casting mud on you because you are a noob and I think I can mislynch you"
-Arnaria
*nothing personal, being a wild dick is the funnest way to play
None taken.
Thank you.
There's no point pretending there's not a vig as any kind of self-lynch to throw off future scum plan makes far too many assumptions and would require us to have somehow known as scum that there was not a vig.
Also revealing the doc only helps the town, as it forces the scum to rethink any obvious lynch target of someone who claims powers, without making the doc actually vulnerable himself. This gives us the ability to make better use of any cop type roles we may have.
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Vanilla: a role in mafia games that has no extra abilities attached.
That's what I was. So I can confirm there is at least one or more Vanilla town roles left in the game. Can't let the mafia team have it too easy who to roleblock now can we?
Also my expirience is not too deep. Four games completed total. Two on site (Drury Lane and Futurama) and two off site. Can provide links if you want.
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Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
What are the mafia roles that we're dealing with?
Reading is tech.
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Also "if we are good we can lynch one and vig the other." Yes, that's a possibility, but it's still showing an anti-town mindset. You're demonstrating that you'd rather (conceptually at least) cut off an avenue for getting scum killed than have all the (again, conceptual) options available. Yes, it may be obvious that there's a vig. But how you treat that information is important, and an "I don't want to die even if I get scum killed too" mentality is quite telling.
Also I fail to see how revealing the doctor could help, other than letting the scum know who to kill. What's to stop the scum from just shooting the doctor overnight?
So we're certain Wildfire is town? Why GM?
Yes. For an in-depth answer, we'll take a look at a hypothetical set up.
So at end of night, has 2 town vanillas, a town bomb, a mafia goon and a mafia godfather living.
So N1, it could be this:
Player A is Vanilla
Player B is Bomb
Player C is Godfather
Player D is Vanilla
Player E is Goon
At Dawn 2, using random.org, I take the living roles and shuffle them around, so it might look like this:
Player A is Bomb
Player B is Goon
Player C is Vanilla
Player D is Vanilla
Player E is Godfather
As you can see, Player D received Vanilla again, and because I'm using random, it is possible for players to receive the same role they had yesterDay. Also, we see that Player A, Player D and Player E are still on the same teams while Player B and player C switched sides.
I hope that answers everyone's questions.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
VOTE COUNT!
Sir Karn (2) - Shockwave07, Tom
Shockwave07 (2) - Specific, Gerrard's Mom
Tom (1) - Sir Karn
Not voting (6) - Jay13x, kaburi, Teia Rabishu, Arnnaria, Wildfire393, BlackVise
With 11 alive it takes 6 to lynch
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
unvote.
Vote: Arnnaria
For suggesting that my not revealing the info was scummy, and then attacking Wildfire for revealing the info.
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As an aside, I don't know how the info that is now public helps the town at all. All it does is let the scum know for sure what they are dealing with.
Oh I finally pieced this together, but your predecessor MDenham was pretty aggro at the start and I can see ER thinking he had some sort of role. It looks to me like you are just trying to set up a towny appearance by claiming to have been harmless vanilla, it doesn't really add any useful information.
Because you and Shockwave are the scums and there are only 2 left
Tom/Wildfire: ER's role says "For Day 1, you have hired..." Was there any indication that the scum powers might change over time?
I am fine to lynch Arnnaria as well. We're closer to getting a claim out of him so I'm going to go ahead and switch to him.
Unvote
Vote Arnnaria
Tom, I would say there are town ploys that can benefit from the knowledge that we have some protective role, if that's what you're worried about.
As for the wagon, I would respond if there was anything to respond to. But bad wagon is bad.
You were four away from a claim. Now you are three with your vote. That isn't "closer" by any stretch of the imagination.
Why are we so trigger happy today GM?
I'm Proctor and Gamble.
Yesterday I was the town vig. I had my heart shooting on MDenham so I decided I was going to shoot him. When Sir Karn made that horrendous post, I opted to change my vote since my heart was already set on shooting MDenham. Ergo, my vote was more symbolic and it didn't matter as much as it needed to. So I changed my vote because, y'know, because I already had this target. This was caught by Karn and a few others and I had to back peddle out of it with some lies to make sure I could fire my shot last night. After ER came in as obvscum and shot first and asked questions later, I decided to shoot the surefire target.
Surprisingly enough, I am the town vig tonight as well. I already PM'ed TK a long time ago and asked if the vig shoots me and I shoot someone else if the NK will go through and if the vig will go through simultaneously. He says it will, so I am willing to use my vig shot tonight as an extra vote.
Fixed.
I'm pretty sure the "for day 1, you have hired" reflects the fact that your role can change each night. The way TK has explained swapping is that the roles for each side are set, just the people who end up filling them change each day. So we absolutely know that there is one vanilla scum and one day-shot rolecop scum.
If I was scum, the proper play would have been to cast doubt onto Tom's information, making him appear scummy and denying the town info. I'm trying to give the town as much as possible to work with.
Here's an example of a claim that is made much safer by the knowledge of the doc role. Now we can back off from lynching our Vig, and the doc can choose to save him overnight, which is overall a fairly major town win.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
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@The rolecop: Check Arnnaria and tell us if he's lying.
It's a little suspect that he'd end up twice in a row, but there is a 1/11 chance of that so it's not impossible.
I'd like to see an actual quote from his role PM. The wording should be able to tip us off as to whether he's telling the truth.
I'd rather not have to out our role cop as well as our vig, because that gives the scum more targets than we (probably) have doctors to defend.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Ergh. I just realized that if he was the vig day 1 and not day 2 he could just copy the text from day 1 over, so asking for a quote is unhelpful.
On the other hand, if we ask for a role cop, one of the scum could claim to be the role cop and claim Arn to be mafia. Then we mislynch Arn and don't even have a vig to exact vengeance on the liar.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Can't do that Wildfire.
I will say that the name of the vig is "industrial saboteur." Read the flavor of the ER kill.
"You may quote your company name, your allegiance, and your powers"
I'm inclined to believe you however.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
Vigilante.
As long as Arnnaria doesn't get counter claimed he's town. unvote
Arn, I understand what you're saying, I came out of the exchange reading Wildfire as town and you as scum and I was describing your hypothetical intentions in painting him in a bad light.
Given that we are told the scum roleblocker died, vig is a verifiable claim. That is assuming you still have shots. Does the town really get a kill every night?
Do we have any idea if roles can switch alignments?
6 to lynch, L-2 is four votes. I needed two more people to vote Shockwave to get there and get his claim, but only one more on you to put you at L-2. I had already made it clear that you were my other main suspect, so I was happy to vote you.
I'm going to keep my vote where it is until everyone has checked in on the claim.
Is this responding to me? Where are you seeing "I don't want to die even if I get scum killed too?" Who suggested revealing the doctor?
People really need to read my first post of the day. Lotsa good stuff in there.
It was worth a shot
Anyway, I find it crazy if this is an unlimited about vig. But I won't lynch our claimed vig in this game if it really is multiple shots. If someone CCs it could easily be scum and then we'd have to figure out which is scum of the CC and Arnnaria.
Unless that happens though:
unvote.
I don't remember what GMom said toDay. I can read later.
I only realized today that Arn's claim is NOT verifiable since there are no guarantees he would be the vig tomorrow. Barring a counterclaim, I buy that he was the vig yesterday, but my guess is that the role reverts to vanilla after being used or something and he is just running that fake claim to avoid being lynched today.
I haven't checked in detail but I thought Karn was good in putting out pressure yesterday and feel like he has kept it up. I don't have any reason to believe he has switched to scum at this time.
That's an interesting thought.
Go read TK's explanation of the setup that he posted toDay again.
I can buy that town has a repeatable-use Vig. With roles randomizing each day, it can be very difficult for the Vig to be certain on their kill unless the scum does something obvious like yesterDay's quicklynch. A trigger-happy Vig works against the town.
However, having a repeatable Vig means that the scum can't just quicklynch every Day and get away with it.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
EDH Cube
Hypercube! A New EDH Deck Every Week(ish)!
This is out guess the mod area, but I feel this would create an unfair environment if we ever chose to do a massclaim or someone full claimed and someone who had said role recognized an inconsistency with the original role.
The other way the only thing that is helped is the person coming into the spent role avoiding confusion once they recieve it. I am disinclined to believe this is the route taken, but this is a bastard rules game so this can be an area of unfairness.
Would have to see the role myself to say for sure and talking the mods version.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)