I'm running a different build from what I've seen here so far, but I started with a bit of a different shell and have been tweaking it since. I'm happy with the results.
61 is Elixir. My sideboard varies but there is no secret tech there. More Rifts, gainsays, additional counters.
Last FNM I went 1-0-1 v. USA Control, 2-1-0 v. GR Devotion/Monsters, 1-1-1 v. Esper Control, and 0-2 v. Maze's End (ARGHHH). There were many MUD/Wb/WW played but I didn't run into them myself. Placed 9th/22. I'm wondering how my game is against aggro, though with Bounty, Elixir and Horizon I've had past wins against Red aggro variants. I've played the deck at 3 other similar sized tourneys and it's been getting better.
23 Lands might be too low, I think. Curse of the Swine wasn't as necessary as I thought it would be, but not having removal makes me nervous. I might go -2 COTSwine -3 Caryatid +2 Vorel +3 Gyre Sage. Or maybe I should really get the additional land in there...
Edit:
Actually I'll probably go -2 COTSwine +1 Land +1 Prognostic Sphinx
I'm running a different build from what I've seen here so far, but I started with a bit of a different shell and have been tweaking it since. I'm happy with the results.
61 is Elixir. My sideboard varies but there is no secret tech there. More Rifts, gainsays, additional counters.
Last FNM I went 1-0-1 v. USA Control, 2-1-0 v. GR Devotion/Monsters, 1-1-1 v. Esper Control, and 0-2 v. Maze's End (ARGHHH). There were many MUD/Wb/WW played but I didn't run into them myself. Placed 9th/22. I'm wondering how my game is against aggro, though with Bounty, Elixir and Horizon I've had past wins against Red aggro variants. I've played the deck at 3 other similar sized tourneys and it's been getting better.
23 Lands might be too low, I think. Curse of the Swine wasn't as necessary as I thought it would be, but not having removal makes me nervous. I might go -2 COTSwine -3 Caryatid +2 Vorel +3 Gyre Sage. Or maybe I should really get the additional land in there...
Edit:
Actually I'll probably go -2 COTSwine +1 Land +1 Prognostic Sphinx
Inspiration is bad. Divination and Urban Evolution are just better, and those don't make the cut in our deck a lot of the time
Don't cut Caryatid, it's one of the most important cards in our deck, and Gyre Sage is worse in every way.
4 Plasm Capture and 4 Horizon Chimera are too many copies of each
@owlbro: seems like yours should be a Bant list, it needs Sphinx's Revelation. Theres a thread in the competitive forums for Bant Prophet, I suggest checking it out
if it was feasible I'd play RUG Prophet with Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius and Clan Defiance but even with all the duals we have it'd be way too slow. Too many duals that enter the battlefield tapped :C
I like the Domri splash though, but I'd use more creatures to support it, 24 doesn't seem like enough
Inspiration is bad. Divination and Urban Evolution are just better, and those don't make the cut in our deck a lot of the time
Don't cut Caryatid, it's one of the most important cards in our deck, and Gyre Sage is worse in every way.
4 Plasm Capture and 4 Horizon Chimera are too many copies of each
Oops, yes I forgot to include Urban Evolution. My numbers are off, it should be 38 nonlands, counting 2x Urban Evolution I think the card is great but I've cut it down from 4 to 3 to 2 after it sat in my hand too many games. I like the earlier boost Inspiration gives. I run Inspiration over Divination because Divination is a sorcery and I originally didn't want to tapout T3(I started building this deck with more counterspells than I'm running now). I still prefer the instant speed to play it EOT. I think divination works in UW decks because of their need to dig for something to rush out by T4, Jace or Supreme Verdict. I don't experience that, but I will keep it in mind during games to see if it is something I want. Now that I'm thinking of it, though, dropping Inspiration for Jace, Architect of Thought might be good. If we had Kiora already She would do well in the spot too. You may be right about Chimera and Plasm Capture. Though, you are only telling me what you don't like about the deck and not what you would add in their place or move around. What do you think? I actually never feel overloaded with Chimera; in fact I'm almost always glad to see it. Plasm Capture... That may be another story. I'll keep that in mind in testing as well to see how useful it is as a 4 of. If I dropped 1 plasm capture I'd probably give the slot to another Cyclonic Rift or maybe Bow of Nylea.
Also don't worry, I won't cut Caryatid. that was more of a lulzy suggestion.
@owlbro: seems like yours should be a Bant list, it needs Sphinx's Revelation. Theres a thread in the competitive forums for Bant Prophet, I suggest checking it out
@LeoninKha that is interesting you say that..Why? I have actually been interested in that thread/deck for some time, though I wanted to see how far I could go with U/G and see the necessity of adding an additional color. So far it doesn't seem necessary but BANT does seem like a good time. I am not willing to invest in all the cards necessary at this point tho, with BOTG coming out soon.
The black splash is kind of new, but Golgari Charm is so good in the sideboard and having more scry easily outweighs the cost of a land coming in tapped.
@LeoninKha that is interesting you say that..Why? I have actually been interested in that thread/deck for some time, though I wanted to see how far I could go with U/G and see the necessity of adding an additional color. So far it doesn't seem necessary but BANT does seem like a good time. I am not willing to invest in all the cards necessary at this point tho, with BOTG coming out soon.
Well it seemed more of a control list, what with all the Plasm Captures and Simic Charms
After having tried your list out I am much happier running this than where i was at before. It has improved the match up against mono black a ton. There were two minor things that i wasn't 100% sold on though. Garruk in the sideboard, and I also ran into an issue where several times i would draw a second copy of nykthos when there was really no use for tapping out the other and swapping them immediately or for several turns. Could perhaps go down to two of them until born of the gods drops and our improved untap engine comes online. Or up the count on islands or actually put Rogue's Passage back in and make one of our attackers a pseudo aetherling for a turn. As for bringing garruk in against control decks I almost think a few counterspells might work just as well, pithing needle is another option but it means we're trading jace for jace. Quicken is also not a horrible card to consider given our lack of cheap cantrips in standard, plus it does have some synergy with curse of the swine and even divination itself.
After having tried your list out I am much happier running this than where i was at before. It has improved the match up against mono black a ton. There were two minor things that i wasn't 100% sold on though. Garruk in the sideboard, and I also ran into an issue where several times i would draw a second copy of nykthos when there was really no use for tapping out the other and swapping them immediately or for several turns. Could perhaps go down to two of them until born of the gods drops and our improved untap engine comes online. Or up the count on islands or actually put Rogue's Passage back in and make one of our attackers a pseudo aetherling for a turn. As for bringing garruk in against control decks I almost think a few counterspells might work just as well, pithing needle is another option but it means we're trading jace for jace. Quicken is also not a horrible card to consider given our lack of cheap cantrips in standard, plus it does have some synergy with curse of the swine and even divination itself.
I'm not sure Garruk is necessary against control, but the game gets out of hand really fast if he resolves. He makes it much easier to play around board wipes, makes us much less dependent on sticking AEtherling, and him + Sylvan Primordial is a nightmare for them
I thought about Quicken in the side, but I don't know if it does enough
Glad you like the list. I think it now has a favorable matchup against the three most popular decks in the format (mono-U, mono-B, and Control). Let me know if you make any tweaks that work
These are really the only other cards i've thought of adding in somewhere. I don't really see anything other than garruk that would strengthen the control game, but I'm still unsure that he's the best fit there. If nothing else for those looking to build this i think he is probably an expense that could be avoided without harming the build. Will continue to playtest this list and see what else comes to mind.
My reasons were the wealth of counters and direct removal. Dreadbore and Hero's Downfall come to mind, and with more counterspells that i could possibly be bothered to list it seems like a high spot on the curve to main deck, let alone rely on. I will also say that your list really leans more towards pure mono green devotion than any of the others, and would probably be stronger if it were.
I'll be playing Zegana instead of Garruk, I think it might be the best option for us.
Garruk is super powerful in this deck, but Jace helps us so much against aggro which is this deck's main weakness. Zegana is better as far as six drops go because she can blow the game out the turn she comes into play, especially with a prophet on board
Garruk is super powerful in this deck, but Jace helps us so much against aggro which is this deck's main weakness. Zegana is better as far as six drops go because she can blow the game out the turn she comes into play, especially with a prophet on board
Earlier in the thread you said you'd tested Jace and said he didn't help us at all and by the time he came down it was too late to do anything. So are you flipflopping?
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Would Dark Confidant still be good if he punched you in the face for 5 damage a turn?
I'll be playing Zegana instead of Garruk, I think it might be the best option for us.
You're fine thinking that but you're wrong. Zegana can be shutdown super easily. Even when Garruk gets Heroes Downfalled he's going to dig 5 cards deep. Zegana is vulnerable to a dozen different removals before she sticks.
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Would Dark Confidant still be good if he punched you in the face for 5 damage a turn?
Earlier in the thread you said you'd tested Jace and said he didn't help us at all and by the time he came down it was too late to do anything. So are you flipflopping?
After more testing, yes. My deck has changed a lot since then
You're fine thinking that but you're wrong. Zegana can be shutdown super easily. Even when Garruk gets Heroes Downfalled he's going to dig 5 cards deep. Zegana is vulnerable to a dozen different removals before she sticks.
When Zegana hits, she does her job immediately. She can be countered, but so can Garruk. She's vulnerable to Gainsay, but that's why I bring in Garruk against control
Garruk can go five deep, but only grabs creatures. Against aggro, I'm usually looking for something like Rift or Curse
After more testing, yes. My deck has changed a lot since then
When Zegana hits, she does her job immediately. She can be countered, but so can Garruk. She's vulnerable to Gainsay, but that's why I bring in Garruk against control
Garruk can go five deep, but only grabs creatures. Against aggro, I'm usually looking for something like Rift or Curse
I wasn't referring to countering Zegana. I was referring to doomblading that polukranos you have on the field so your zegana comes in as a 2/2 and draws you one card because the only other creature you have on the field is a 1/1 elvish mystic and an 0/3 caryatid.
Zegana is a fine creature be requires set up and is utility she isn't nearly as good a card draw engine as Garruk. There is no "Can" in Garruk going 5 deep. Garruk DOES go 5 deep everytime. You can't say the same for a resolved Zegana.
Against Aggro why are you looking for a Rift or a Curse? I feel like if you have mana for an overloaded cyclonic rift your ramp engine went off without a hitch and all you need to do is be dropping threat after threat. With Curse you're not really harming your opponent. Most RDW creatures are 2/2's anyway. Same way with Mono U the only upside is it puts them off devotion.
Garruk is simply the best card drawing engine a U/G devotion deck has at this point in time.
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Would Dark Confidant still be good if he punched you in the face for 5 damage a turn?
Why not 2 Garruks and 2 Jaces mainly? Or 2/1 1/2 depends on meta.
I might do that eventually. I could cut one Zegana for one Garruk and be fine with it. I play against a lot of Mono-U, and Zegana is a house against them
I'm probably also going to be taking a hard look at Master of Waves and maybe splashing white once BTG comes out
I wasn't referring to countering Zegana. I was referring to doomblading that polukranos you have on the field so your zegana comes in as a 2/2 and draws you one card because the only other creature you have on the field is a 1/1 elvish mystic and an 0/3 caryatid.
Small clarification. Prime Speaker Zegana will draw you 2 cards if you cast her when you control an elf and she comes into play as a 2/2. Not just 1 card.
I've been running 4-ofs with Zegana, and she typically gets me 3 or 4 cards off of a Prophet of Kruphix or Horizon Chimera. I wish I had enough cards to make two versions of this deck and test each against different decks in the meta. I suppose I could try online testing with . . . didn't WotC force Apprentice out of business? Did anything replace it?
Small clarification. Prime Speaker Zegana will draw you 2 cards if you cast her when you control an elf and she comes into play as a 2/2. Not just 1 card.
I've been running 4-ofs with Zegana, and she typically gets me 3 or 4 cards off of a Prophet of Kruphix or Horizon Chimera. I wish I had enough cards to make two versions of this deck and test each against different decks in the meta. I suppose I could try online testing with . . . didn't WotC force Apprentice out of business? Did anything replace it?
I've been using Forge, mostly because it has an AI which means I can test much more rapidly than I could against a live player. The downside is, obviously, that the AI is not a great player. It plays some things well, but has no real concept of strategy and doesn't know what the most important cards in my deck are. It's still good for testing my curve against other decks in the format.
Garruk is super powerful in this deck, but Jace helps us so much against aggro which is this deck's main weakness. Zegana is better as far as six drops go because she can blow the game out the turn she comes into play, especially with a prophet on board
I don't have issues against aggro, in fact, aggro is my best matchup by far. Heck if you're playing midrange and you don't beat aggro then something's wrong.
You're fine thinking that but you're wrong. Zegana can be shutdown super easily. Even when Garruk gets Heroes Downfalled he's going to dig 5 cards deep. Zegana is vulnerable to a dozen different removals before she sticks.
I may be wrong but I'm also one of the only ones here that plays Prognostic Sphinx which basically guarantees at least 4 cards off Zegana.
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3 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Prophet of Kruphix
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
2 Polukranos, Eater of Worlds
2 Cyclonic Rift
2 Primeval Bounty
4 Plasm Capture
1 Elixir of Immortality
4 Simic Charm
2 Curse of the Swine
4 Horizon Chimera
1 Prognostic Sphinx
2 Inspiration
23 Lands
61 is Elixir. My sideboard varies but there is no secret tech there. More Rifts, gainsays, additional counters.
Last FNM I went 1-0-1 v. USA Control, 2-1-0 v. GR Devotion/Monsters, 1-1-1 v. Esper Control, and 0-2 v. Maze's End (ARGHHH). There were many MUD/Wb/WW played but I didn't run into them myself. Placed 9th/22. I'm wondering how my game is against aggro, though with Bounty, Elixir and Horizon I've had past wins against Red aggro variants. I've played the deck at 3 other similar sized tourneys and it's been getting better.
23 Lands might be too low, I think. Curse of the Swine wasn't as necessary as I thought it would be, but not having removal makes me nervous. I might go -2 COTSwine -3 Caryatid +2 Vorel +3 Gyre Sage. Or maybe I should really get the additional land in there...
Edit:
Actually I'll probably go -2 COTSwine +1 Land +1 Prognostic Sphinx
Inspiration is bad. Divination and Urban Evolution are just better, and those don't make the cut in our deck a lot of the time
Don't cut Caryatid, it's one of the most important cards in our deck, and Gyre Sage is worse in every way.
4 Plasm Capture and 4 Horizon Chimera are too many copies of each
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
Also this deck is seriously fun to play.
Sideboard is a work in progress.
4x Boon Satyr
4x Horizon Chimera
3x Polukranos, World Eater
2x Kalonian Hydra
4x Prophet of Kruphix
4x Sylvan Caryatid
3x Shambleshark
Planeswalkers: 4
4x Domri Rade
4x Simic Charm
3x Urban Evolution
1x Primeval Bounty
Lands: 24
4x Breeding Pool
4x Temple of Mystery
2x Temple of Abandon
4x Stomping Ground
4x Forest
6x Island
3 - Tidebinder Mage
2 - Negate
2 - Aetherize
2 - Gainsay
3 - Triton Tactics
3 - Plummet
2 - Mistcutter Hydra
I like the Domri splash though, but I'd use more creatures to support it, 24 doesn't seem like enough
Oops, yes I forgot to include Urban Evolution. My numbers are off, it should be 38 nonlands, counting 2x Urban Evolution I think the card is great but I've cut it down from 4 to 3 to 2 after it sat in my hand too many games. I like the earlier boost Inspiration gives. I run Inspiration over Divination because Divination is a sorcery and I originally didn't want to tapout T3(I started building this deck with more counterspells than I'm running now). I still prefer the instant speed to play it EOT. I think divination works in UW decks because of their need to dig for something to rush out by T4, Jace or Supreme Verdict. I don't experience that, but I will keep it in mind during games to see if it is something I want. Now that I'm thinking of it, though, dropping Inspiration for Jace, Architect of Thought might be good. If we had Kiora already She would do well in the spot too. You may be right about Chimera and Plasm Capture. Though, you are only telling me what you don't like about the deck and not what you would add in their place or move around. What do you think? I actually never feel overloaded with Chimera; in fact I'm almost always glad to see it. Plasm Capture... That may be another story. I'll keep that in mind in testing as well to see how useful it is as a 4 of. If I dropped 1 plasm capture I'd probably give the slot to another Cyclonic Rift or maybe Bow of Nylea.
Also don't worry, I won't cut Caryatid. that was more of a lulzy suggestion.
@LeoninKha that is interesting you say that..Why? I have actually been interested in that thread/deck for some time, though I wanted to see how far I could go with U/G and see the necessity of adding an additional color. So far it doesn't seem necessary but BANT does seem like a good time. I am not willing to invest in all the cards necessary at this point tho, with BOTG coming out soon.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
3 Kiora's Follower
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Mistcutter Hydra
4 Prophet of Kruphix
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 AEtherling
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
Spells(8):
2 Curse of the Swine
3 Cyclonic Rift
2 Bow of Nylea
Planeswalkers(3):
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Kiora, the Crashing Wave
Land(23):
7 Forest
3 Island
3 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Mystery
4 Breeding Pool
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
2 Sylvan Primordial
3 Rapid Hybridization
1 Prime Speaker Zegana
3 Golgari Charm
2 Prognostic Sphinx
2 Mistcutter Hydra
The black splash is kind of new, but Golgari Charm is so good in the sideboard and having more scry easily outweighs the cost of a land coming in tapped.
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
Well it seemed more of a control list, what with all the Plasm Captures and Simic Charms
After having tried your list out I am much happier running this than where i was at before. It has improved the match up against mono black a ton. There were two minor things that i wasn't 100% sold on though. Garruk in the sideboard, and I also ran into an issue where several times i would draw a second copy of nykthos when there was really no use for tapping out the other and swapping them immediately or for several turns. Could perhaps go down to two of them until born of the gods drops and our improved untap engine comes online. Or up the count on islands or actually put Rogue's Passage back in and make one of our attackers a pseudo aetherling for a turn. As for bringing garruk in against control decks I almost think a few counterspells might work just as well, pithing needle is another option but it means we're trading jace for jace. Quicken is also not a horrible card to consider given our lack of cheap cantrips in standard, plus it does have some synergy with curse of the swine and even divination itself.
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Burning-Tree Emissary
2 Boon Satyr
1 Mistcutter Hydra
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
2 Nylea, God of the Hunt
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Prime Speaker Zegana
3 Arbor Colossus
2 Prophet of Kruphix
3 Cyclonic Rift
2 Urban Evolution
Planeswalkers
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Land
4 Breeding Pool
4 Temple of Mystery
7 Forest
5 Island
4 Nykthos, Shrine To Nyx
3 Mistcutter Hydra
2 Wasteland Viper
1 Bramblecrush
2 Sylvan Primordial
1 Prognostic Sphinx
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Aetherling
4 Witchstalker
I'm not sure Garruk is necessary against control, but the game gets out of hand really fast if he resolves. He makes it much easier to play around board wipes, makes us much less dependent on sticking AEtherling, and him + Sylvan Primordial is a nightmare for them
I thought about Quicken in the side, but I don't know if it does enough
Glad you like the list. I think it now has a favorable matchup against the three most popular decks in the format (mono-U, mono-B, and Control). Let me know if you make any tweaks that work
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
Ætherize
Inaction Injunction
Skygames
These are really the only other cards i've thought of adding in somewhere. I don't really see anything other than garruk that would strengthen the control game, but I'm still unsure that he's the best fit there. If nothing else for those looking to build this i think he is probably an expense that could be avoided without harming the build. Will continue to playtest this list and see what else comes to mind.
Garruk is super powerful in this deck, but Jace helps us so much against aggro which is this deck's main weakness. Zegana is better as far as six drops go because she can blow the game out the turn she comes into play, especially with a prophet on board
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
Earlier in the thread you said you'd tested Jace and said he didn't help us at all and by the time he came down it was too late to do anything. So are you flipflopping?
You're fine thinking that but you're wrong. Zegana can be shutdown super easily. Even when Garruk gets Heroes Downfalled he's going to dig 5 cards deep. Zegana is vulnerable to a dozen different removals before she sticks.
After more testing, yes. My deck has changed a lot since then
When Zegana hits, she does her job immediately. She can be countered, but so can Garruk. She's vulnerable to Gainsay, but that's why I bring in Garruk against control
Garruk can go five deep, but only grabs creatures. Against aggro, I'm usually looking for something like Rift or Curse
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
I wasn't referring to countering Zegana. I was referring to doomblading that polukranos you have on the field so your zegana comes in as a 2/2 and draws you one card because the only other creature you have on the field is a 1/1 elvish mystic and an 0/3 caryatid.
Zegana is a fine creature be requires set up and is utility she isn't nearly as good a card draw engine as Garruk. There is no "Can" in Garruk going 5 deep. Garruk DOES go 5 deep everytime. You can't say the same for a resolved Zegana.
Against Aggro why are you looking for a Rift or a Curse? I feel like if you have mana for an overloaded cyclonic rift your ramp engine went off without a hitch and all you need to do is be dropping threat after threat. With Curse you're not really harming your opponent. Most RDW creatures are 2/2's anyway. Same way with Mono U the only upside is it puts them off devotion.
Garruk is simply the best card drawing engine a U/G devotion deck has at this point in time.
I might do that eventually. I could cut one Zegana for one Garruk and be fine with it. I play against a lot of Mono-U, and Zegana is a house against them
I'm probably also going to be taking a hard look at Master of Waves and maybe splashing white once BTG comes out
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
Small clarification. Prime Speaker Zegana will draw you 2 cards if you cast her when you control an elf and she comes into play as a 2/2. Not just 1 card.
I've been running 4-ofs with Zegana, and she typically gets me 3 or 4 cards off of a Prophet of Kruphix or Horizon Chimera. I wish I had enough cards to make two versions of this deck and test each against different decks in the meta. I suppose I could try online testing with . . . didn't WotC force Apprentice out of business? Did anything replace it?
I've been using Forge, mostly because it has an AI which means I can test much more rapidly than I could against a live player. The downside is, obviously, that the AI is not a great player. It plays some things well, but has no real concept of strategy and doesn't know what the most important cards in my deck are. It's still good for testing my curve against other decks in the format.
I've also heard good things about UnTap.in
Standard:
GU Prophet
Legacy:
WBU Shared Fate
Trades
I don't have issues against aggro, in fact, aggro is my best matchup by far. Heck if you're playing midrange and you don't beat aggro then something's wrong.
I may be wrong but I'm also one of the only ones here that plays Prognostic Sphinx which basically guarantees at least 4 cards off Zegana.