I did... several times. I said that I couldn't reference the reason early on but I was familiar with his play, then I mentioned it once Walking Dead once it ended, I asked both DK and Void what they saw that was different because they were both in that game.... Is anyone reading my posts?
I skimmed the post when you mentioned the Walking Dead and didn't realize the game had ended. But that doesn't matter to me. I'm not reading that game after that lynch on me.
This wagon is really fast and seems opportunistic. I have some experience playing with BE that I cannot reference but he was just run up to L-1 with an RVS vote still on him. No one else finds this questionable?
I can also finally reference why I think BE is Town. Look at his play in Walking Dead. He has the same self-conscious posting and the same periods of spamming the thread. His style here seems to be almost identical to in that game and I don't see him as likely able to fake that.
This has probably been discussed already, but the town meta DCIII was referring to for B_E was from The Walking Dead.
I disagree with DCIII here and don't think B_E's activity in this game is very similar to TWD at all. Early suspicion was piled onto him in that game for avoiding RVS, and I feel he did an over-correction in this game and spammed RVS incessantly.
@Void - Was DK the player you thought was going to be the other neighbor? Do you suspect him for other reasons than his set up views? Having played with BE in TWD how do see his play as different?
@DCIII:
To answer your third question: BE is still new to our subforum. Reading into one completed game of his will not give sufficient results for this game. We don't know if BE is the type player that can shift his game play from game to game. We don't know if BE will have a difference in behavior from Town to Scum. That being said, I will do a meta analysis if you wish, but I believe that relying on his behavior in this game will be for the better.
So here's what's been discussed regarding BE's meta from TWD. I encourage everyone to look at his posts from that game because I think he's being pushed here for the same behaviors that got him mislynched there.
I have no objections to a b_e lynch.
I believe that dk is town, and if he and rezombied have reason to believe that b_e is scum due to behaviour from their qt then that's fine. Worst case scenario b_e is town and rez gets lynched tomorrow leading to a 1-1 trade.
I had a lean Town read on him until your post but now you have me questioning that. My only experience playing with him is Futurama and I think he's playing differently this game, but that's to be expected given his circumstances in that game and the overlapping player pool.
@Proph: I was townreading Meg in Futurama pretty much the entire game up until the day we lynched Shockwave, where Meg had to be scum via POE. His play in this game is definitely different, but he hasn't done or said anything that triggers my scumdar. He has seemed relatively townie to me so far.
Ech, alright.
I'll trust your guys's read on Meg for the moment.
I also know that meg has a town!meta of pursuing town VIs, similarly to how he scumread Shockwave07 on Day 1 of Sesame Street Mafia.
Some quick thoughts, will post more content tomorrow:
- I will try to put a more concise defense of Burning Earth.
This is how I feel about B_E right now:
Quote from Kraj »
Not surprised B_E was town. Made himself too easy a target. Also made it impossible to come up with a good reason not to lynch him :|"
- I want Kosa to provide more content. I haven't remembered anything he's done when I think about him.
- Basically /barn DCIII; the Day is stalling, I want to sort out the trichotomy, and we're not having much more useful discussion at this point. Tomorrow, I will provide more content and build a succinct case on rezombied.
I'm not convinced B_E is the lynch, so yes I am against lynching him.
@Proph: The reason you don't remember dking is because he only has 12 posts all game and 3-4 of them have basically amounted to PTAP posts. Now low posting for him does not equal him being scum, and I am sure the post count is off for him due to his appendix getting Path to Exiled, but it is worth keeping an eye on going forward.
Alright, I've decided that that Tan is my second leading suspect regardless of the Rez/BE situation:
Wagon analysis on Rez just looks at the votes at face value. Says they're all he's seen as justification for a vote on Rez despite much of the game being focused on Rez's behavior. Then, when pressed about the actual case on Rez, dismisses it as town v. town without going into any of the specifics of the case.
Says that he thinks BE and Rez are Town but that it's logical that there is scum in the neighborhood.
Asks why we don't want the third player to claim.
Acts suspicious of DK when he does claim saying that he never asked him to (which is technically true but it was certainly heavily implied that Tan thought it best if we knew the third neighbor).
Thinks BE is Town but analysis of his wagon doesn't think there's anything scummy about the first five votes on him. Doesn't look at the other players who expressed wanting to vote for BE. Doesn't answer my question when I ask his thoughts on those players (so, from his perspective BE is Town and eight players including his slot said they wanted to lynch BE within the first 115 posts of the game but he doesn't find anything scummy about the votes, doesn't look at those who didn't vote but wanted to lynch him, and doesn't focus much energy on digging any further there).
Lightly casts suspicion on DK with his last post for low post count and PTAP when there are at least three other players (iRebel, Kosa, Deathjoey) with just as low if not lower post counts and with several of those being PTAP posts.
To sum: It seems to me like he's distancing himself from both active wagons while trying to force suspicion on DK without being overt about doing so (hasn't voted, hasn't outright called DK scummy, just has hinted at it).
---------------------------------------------
@Rez - I have questions you still haven't answered.
---------------------------------------------
@Void - were you still planning on sharing what you didn't like about Kosa's town read on Rez?
Well, now I'm in only two games. Makes things easier.
However, I've felt myself quite disconnected from this game since its beginning, so bear with me if I take a while to get back and/or keep going back on past stuff:
Because he took the time to link the name/alignments and notice that there wasn't an option where's he's listed as town. I wouldn't expect scum noticing it, much less pointing it out.
I don't like this reasoning at all. It wouldn't have made any sense for Megiddo to ask me if I thought Rez was Town when I was voting Rez and pushing a case against him; so Rez asking Megiddo why he wasn't listed as a town option also didn't make any sense. I saw that as him grasping, definitely not a sign of him being Town.
What do you think, specifically, of the case on him?
Whether Meg has or hasn't listed him as a town option is irrelevant: what matters is rez noticing it. I find extremely unlikely such a reaction to come from scum.
I don't like the case on him as much as I don't like people modgaming that there HAS to be a X number of scum in the neighboorhood because it's MTGS standart to do so. I'll remember you all that the mod of this game got burnt as scum in WWE partially because of a triple-alignment masonry, so I'd approach modgaming regarding it with extreme caution.
That said, I firmly believe (based on behavior) that B_E is scum and rez is town. I don't have an opinion formed on DKL.
Also, I agree with whoever said we should stop the claming already. Let's lynch B_E whenever ready and call it a Day.
I don't like the case on him as much as I don't like people modgaming that there HAS to be a X number of scum in the neighboorhood because it's MTGS standart to do so. I'll remember you all that the mod of this game got burnt as scum in WWE partially because of a triple-alignment masonry, so I'd approach modgaming regarding it with extreme caution.
That said, I firmly believe (based on behavior) that B_E is scum and rez is town. I don't have an opinion formed on DKL.
I know DCIII does not like I have not voted for DKL yet, but you basically stated the only reason I have not committed to a DKL vote. I can't rule out that this could be a 3x Town neighborhood and we have a situation similar to Drury Lane and the muffin gifters. The fact DKL has not posted enough to rule this out is my major hangup (Which I noted in my last post.)
Kosa that doesn't make sense to me. Scum is more worried about people viewing them as Town. I'd expect scum to focus on that more. Also context matters. A secure player would understand the context of what Meg was saying and wouldn't feel the need to question the omission because it made sense based on what was happening in the game. If anything, that comment seems like Rez was ignoring context to try to make it look bad that that option wasn't included.
I want to apologise to both the Mod and everyone else for my prolonged absence. For the past five days I've been down with a severe migraine that has prevented me from doing much with a computer. I think it is finally beginning to recede.
I am going to try and get caught up either tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Vote Burning_Earth since he's back from V/LA and isn't at L-2 like I thought he was.
There are now 5 votes each on Rez and B_E. We need to decide on a lynch, folks.
I'll say again, for the record: I just don't see scum faking the level of paranoia that Rez's behavior in the neighbor QT displays toward both B_E and myself.
@Proph: The reason you don't remember dking is because he only has 12 posts all game and 3-4 of them have basically amounted to PTAP posts. Now low posting for him does not equal him being scum, and I am sure the post count is off for him due to his appendix getting Path to Exiled, but it is worth keeping an eye on going forward.
I don't like the case on him as much as I don't like people modgaming that there HAS to be a X number of scum in the neighboorhood because it's MTGS standart to do so. I'll remember you all that the mod of this game got burnt as scum in WWE partially because of a triple-alignment masonry, so I'd approach modgaming regarding it with extreme caution.
I can see where you're coming from (especially considering you're probably still a little bitter over that too), but I would be more inclined to agree with you if *not* for the fact that the competing wagons of the day are on two of the neighbors. I really don't think this is a coincidence. Occam's says B_E is scum who got early pressure (especially from Rez in the QT), and DCIII presented a well-articulated case against Rez that became a convenient counter-wagon.
Just a note for you guys -- once you settle on a lynch, there will be a brief twilight phase while I write flavor and take care of some behind-the-scenes mod stuff. I should've probably noted that down in the OP, but I didn't think of it.
When I posted on Friday, I thought B_E was the player with 5 votes. I didn't want to put him at L-1 when we hadn't reached a concensus on the lynch. Scum get away with derp-hammering way too often on this site as it is.
When I posted on Friday, I thought B_E was the player with 5 votes. I didn't want to put him at L-1 when we hadn't reached a concensus on the lynch. Scum get away with derp-hammering way too often on this site as it is.
If you believe that a Scum was going to "derp-hammer", then wouldn't you want to put B_E to L-1?
Hell, we still haven't. In case you haven't noticed, there are several people pushing against lynching B_E.
If a Scum "derp-hammers" on someone we haven't agreed to lynch, then you are getting exactly what you want, a "derp-hammer". Therefore it would have been easy for you to spot the Scum doing so.
And the fact that we still haven't would make me think that you want to try that gambit rather than avoid it.
Also, it seems like virtually everyone is in a state of disconnect with this game. Arian should probably institute a deadline.
I've been keeping an eye on this. I haven't made a deadline yet because both of the competing wagons could be completed at the drop of a hat. That being said, if there hasn't been a lynch by this weekend, I will set a deadline.
i asked dkings on the 24th why he wasn't voting and on the 25th he said that he knew it was stalling and said that it was poor form to lynch someone while they are v/la.
@DCIII: If you're just gonna tunnel me, I'm not going to bother answering your questions.
Well, since everyone is asking for it, I guess we'll deadline it up.
If there has not been a lynch by 4pm (Eastern time) on February 5th, the Day will end with a lynch on whomever has the most votes. In event of a tie, the Day will end in a No Lynch.
@DCIII: If you're just gonna tunnel me, I'm not going to bother answering your questions.
Everyone please pay attention to this.
Accusing me of tunneling is not only wrong but it is a bad excuse to not have to answer tough questions that make up some of the larger points of my case on you.
When you voted Proph you said that previously you thought BE was scum and that now you thought he might be scum but that Proph was scum... so what caused you to reduce your read from BE being scum to BE might be scum then?
And then just recently you assumed that BE was going to be the lynch despite your wagon being larger and your vote being on Proph, so what changed to move your vote back to BE after having just moved it to Proph?
In case anyone glossed over this part of the game, here's why those questions are being asked:
You initially disputed the cases that Proph and I made as being inconsistent to try to refute the case against you when, in fact, if Proph was saying what you were saying he was, that would have been an awful stance to take. You didn't press him on that, instead just trying to focus on debunking the case. After I pressed you on why you didn't focus on Proph more, then you changed your tune and switched your vote from BE to Proph.
Previously you had said that BE was scum. When I asked you why you switched your vote to Proph from BE you said that you had thought that he was scum, now you think that he might be scum and that Proph was scum.
So the first question is: What lessened your stance on BE to go from thinking he was scum to thinking that he MIGHT be scum?
Then, you switched your vote from Proph back to BE, assuming that he was the Day's lynch and saying that you were confident that he was scum.
The second question is: What changed your opinion from thinking that BE might be scum back to thinking that he was scum and why move your vote at that point in time?
If your read on BE has been scum from the beginning, then your change in stance from is scum to might be scum on him to justify your Proph vote doesn't jive.
The answer to these questions is important because it looks to me like you were just moving your vote around based on what was convenient with your stances. Your move of your vote to Proph when you took pressure about your stance on him, saying that you then only thought that BE might be scum and that your reads can change (but not saying why), then your move back to BE when your wagon was the largest to try to swing the wagon back.
Also, if you had good answers to these questions why would you want to withhold them? Even if you didn't think you could convince me, there are several other people on your wagon that could be convinced to move their vote.
I think it's because you don't have a good answer and so you're trying to dismiss the questions and hope that the BE wagon gets there.
@Tan - One of your reasons you gave for thinking that Rez was Town was that he tried to answer all of the questions asked of him. What do you think about him not wanting to respond to these questions?
@DCIII: The fact he is threatening to outright refuse to answer your question is a bit disturbing to me. It is a sudden change from what he was doing up until now. I dunno if it is frustration pointed towards you or something else though.
@DCIII: If rezombied isn't answering your questions, I would work on convincing others to place their votes on rezombied rather than 1v1ing rezombied himself. If you think someone is scum, don't argue with them about it - you're not going to convince him to claim that he's scum, so there's no point.
I skimmed the post when you mentioned the Walking Dead and didn't realize the game had ended. But that doesn't matter to me. I'm not reading that game after that lynch on me.
So here's what's been discussed regarding BE's meta from TWD. I encourage everyone to look at his posts from that game because I think he's being pushed here for the same behaviors that got him mislynched there.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Also, there is the thing with jumping to defend TubeHunter's RVS post in the neighbor chat.
I believe that dk is town, and if he and rezombied have reason to believe that b_e is scum due to behaviour from their qt then that's fine. Worst case scenario b_e is town and rez gets lynched tomorrow leading to a 1-1 trade.
Ech, alright.
I'll trust your guys's read on Meg for the moment.
I also know that meg has a town!meta of pursuing town VIs, similarly to how he scumread Shockwave07 on Day 1 of Sesame Street Mafia.
Some quick thoughts, will post more content tomorrow:
- I will try to put a more concise defense of Burning Earth.
This is how I feel about B_E right now:
- I want Kosa to provide more content. I haven't remembered anything he's done when I think about him.
- Basically /barn DCIII; the Day is stalling, I want to sort out the trichotomy, and we're not having much more useful discussion at this point. Tomorrow, I will provide more content and build a succinct case on rezombied.
Not Voting -- Dkingsland (115), Deathjoey (0), Tanarin (302)
With 12 players alive, it is 7 votes for a lynch.
I'll be back later.
@proph: This is the corner case where I need to ask if you mean tomorrow or Tomorrow.
Also do you think DKing could be scum?
This is how much I think b_e is scum.
I mean tomorrow, aka: today.
I'll take a look at dkings; I haven't remembered his posts.
@Proph: The reason you don't remember dking is because he only has 12 posts all game and 3-4 of them have basically amounted to PTAP posts. Now low posting for him does not equal him being scum, and I am sure the post count is off for him due to his appendix getting Path to Exiled, but it is worth keeping an eye on going forward.
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ptap
Wagon analysis on Rez just looks at the votes at face value. Says they're all he's seen as justification for a vote on Rez despite much of the game being focused on Rez's behavior. Then, when pressed about the actual case on Rez, dismisses it as town v. town without going into any of the specifics of the case.
Says that he thinks BE and Rez are Town but that it's logical that there is scum in the neighborhood.
Asks why we don't want the third player to claim.
Acts suspicious of DK when he does claim saying that he never asked him to (which is technically true but it was certainly heavily implied that Tan thought it best if we knew the third neighbor).
Thinks BE is Town but analysis of his wagon doesn't think there's anything scummy about the first five votes on him. Doesn't look at the other players who expressed wanting to vote for BE. Doesn't answer my question when I ask his thoughts on those players (so, from his perspective BE is Town and eight players including his slot said they wanted to lynch BE within the first 115 posts of the game but he doesn't find anything scummy about the votes, doesn't look at those who didn't vote but wanted to lynch him, and doesn't focus much energy on digging any further there).
Lightly casts suspicion on DK with his last post for low post count and PTAP when there are at least three other players (iRebel, Kosa, Deathjoey) with just as low if not lower post counts and with several of those being PTAP posts.
To sum: It seems to me like he's distancing himself from both active wagons while trying to force suspicion on DK without being overt about doing so (hasn't voted, hasn't outright called DK scummy, just has hinted at it).
---------------------------------------------
@Rez - I have questions you still haven't answered.
---------------------------------------------
@Void - were you still planning on sharing what you didn't like about Kosa's town read on Rez?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
However, I've felt myself quite disconnected from this game since its beginning, so bear with me if I take a while to get back and/or keep going back on past stuff:
Whether Meg has or hasn't listed him as a town option is irrelevant: what matters is rez noticing it. I find extremely unlikely such a reaction to come from scum.
I don't like the case on him as much as I don't like people modgaming that there HAS to be a X number of scum in the neighboorhood because it's MTGS standart to do so. I'll remember you all that the mod of this game got burnt as scum in WWE partially because of a triple-alignment masonry, so I'd approach modgaming regarding it with extreme caution.
That said, I firmly believe (based on behavior) that B_E is scum and rez is town. I don't have an opinion formed on DKL.
Also, I agree with whoever said we should stop the claming already. Let's lynch B_E whenever ready and call it a Day.
I know DCIII does not like I have not voted for DKL yet, but you basically stated the only reason I have not committed to a DKL vote. I can't rule out that this could be a 3x Town neighborhood and we have a situation similar to Drury Lane and the muffin gifters. The fact DKL has not posted enough to rule this out is my major hangup (Which I noted in my last post.)
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
I am going to try and get caught up either tomorrow or Tuesday at the latest.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
There are now 5 votes each on Rez and B_E. We need to decide on a lynch, folks.
I'll say again, for the record: I just don't see scum faking the level of paranoia that Rez's behavior in the neighbor QT displays toward both B_E and myself.
Card fail. You should have worked in Surgical Extraction.
I can see where you're coming from (especially considering you're probably still a little bitter over that too), but I would be more inclined to agree with you if *not* for the fact that the competing wagons of the day are on two of the neighbors. I really don't think this is a coincidence. Occam's says B_E is scum who got early pressure (especially from Rez in the QT), and DCIII presented a well-articulated case against Rez that became a convenient counter-wagon.
What? I don't understand this explanation at all.
If you believe that a Scum was going to "derp-hammer", then wouldn't you want to put B_E to L-1?
I don't like this post as all.
Hell, we still haven't. In case you haven't noticed, there are several people pushing against lynching B_E.
If a Scum "derp-hammers" on someone we haven't agreed to lynch, then you are getting exactly what you want, a "derp-hammer". Therefore it would have been easy for you to spot the Scum doing so.
And the fact that we still haven't would make me think that you want to try that gambit rather than avoid it.
Also, it seems like virtually everyone is in a state of disconnect with this game. Arian should probably institute a deadline.
I've been keeping an eye on this. I haven't made a deadline yet because both of the competing wagons could be completed at the drop of a hat. That being said, if there hasn't been a lynch by this weekend, I will set a deadline.
Deadline is fine by me. Can we say 1 week? That will be plenty of time.
@void: since you think that there are two scum in the mason group, is there any evidence that BE and dking are buddies?
@DCIII: If you're just gonna tunnel me, I'm not going to bother answering your questions.
I'm losing motivation quickly about this game, but will try to devote some time to it soon (tm).
If there has not been a lynch by 4pm (Eastern time) on February 5th, the Day will end with a lynch on whomever has the most votes. In event of a tie, the Day will end in a No Lynch.
I haven't looked into it and don't plan on it until Day 2 after we see a flip.
Everyone please pay attention to this.
Accusing me of tunneling is not only wrong but it is a bad excuse to not have to answer tough questions that make up some of the larger points of my case on you.
Here are the questions for reference:
In case anyone glossed over this part of the game, here's why those questions are being asked:
You initially disputed the cases that Proph and I made as being inconsistent to try to refute the case against you when, in fact, if Proph was saying what you were saying he was, that would have been an awful stance to take. You didn't press him on that, instead just trying to focus on debunking the case. After I pressed you on why you didn't focus on Proph more, then you changed your tune and switched your vote from BE to Proph.
Previously you had said that BE was scum. When I asked you why you switched your vote to Proph from BE you said that you had thought that he was scum, now you think that he might be scum and that Proph was scum.
So the first question is: What lessened your stance on BE to go from thinking he was scum to thinking that he MIGHT be scum?
Then, you switched your vote from Proph back to BE, assuming that he was the Day's lynch and saying that you were confident that he was scum.
The second question is: What changed your opinion from thinking that BE might be scum back to thinking that he was scum and why move your vote at that point in time?
If your read on BE has been scum from the beginning, then your change in stance from is scum to might be scum on him to justify your Proph vote doesn't jive.
The answer to these questions is important because it looks to me like you were just moving your vote around based on what was convenient with your stances. Your move of your vote to Proph when you took pressure about your stance on him, saying that you then only thought that BE might be scum and that your reads can change (but not saying why), then your move back to BE when your wagon was the largest to try to swing the wagon back.
Also, if you had good answers to these questions why would you want to withhold them? Even if you didn't think you could convince me, there are several other people on your wagon that could be convinced to move their vote.
I think it's because you don't have a good answer and so you're trying to dismiss the questions and hope that the BE wagon gets there.
-----------------------------------------------------------
@Tan - One of your reasons you gave for thinking that Rez was Town was that he tried to answer all of the questions asked of him. What do you think about him not wanting to respond to these questions?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Like to contradict yourself there, Megs?
@megs honestly I have posted all the content I need too. Now just to wait and make surely posts until our two nonvoters make a decision.
In before anyone catches the scum tell of 'honestly'
Lynch it.
lynch it.
lynch it.
@dc: im not ignoring questions. Just yours.
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People I like
Dk
DC
People I don't like
B_e
Meggido
Tanarin
Proph
I will most likely vote for b_e after vote count
Someone remind me to touch on this post once I get more engaged in this game.