@hans: I had an idea but I forgot what it was. I don't suppose you had a Watch shot, as well? If so, did you target Rhand? Who targeted him, if you did?
Iso said he missed so I feel pretty good about that having gone down as stated.
No, I believe that Iso said he was choosing between Rhand and Tan, and he "missed" in the aspect that he targeted Tan when Rhand was the one who was killed.
Not sure why you feel this way. Even if Iso is innocent, which I'm still really troubled over whether or not to believe him, he admitted that his concrete evidence on dkings was a hoax.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Iso said he missed so I feel pretty good about that having gone down as stated.
No, I believe that Iso said he was choosing between Rhand and Tan, and he "missed" in the aspect that he targeted Tan when Rhand was the one who was killed.
Not sure why you feel this way. Even if Iso is innocent, which I'm still really troubled over whether or not to believe him, he admitted that his concrete evidence on dkings was a hoax.
Read Taredas' last post. Carefully.
Also he thinks his evidence IS concrete. He was trying to get us to think the same way because he really believes in the lynch.
Also think about it, why would Iso be blocked as scum.
Iso said he missed so I feel pretty good about that having gone down as stated.
No, I believe that Iso said he was choosing between Rhand and Tan, and he "missed" in the aspect that he targeted Tan when Rhand was the one who was killed.
Not sure why you feel this way. Even if Iso is innocent, which I'm still really troubled over whether or not to believe him, he admitted that his concrete evidence on dkings was a hoax.
Read Taredas' last post. Carefully.
Also he thinks his evidence IS concrete. He was trying to get us to think the same way because he really believes in the lynch.
Also think about it, why would Iso be blocked as scum.
There are so many things in this post where I have no idea what you are talking about. I believe that we are on completely separate pages.
I targeted you, Tan. I figured if I didn't die, you or Rhand would. I opted for you and I missed, but wanted to use the unknown of my target as leverage to get dkings lynched since I'm 100% sure he's scum. And then hans ruined it. I guess I should've figured I was prime Tracker material, especially on Night 1.
This is Iso's original post.
The "you" = Tan
His use of "opted" leads me to believe that he said that he missed in the sense that he chose the wrong target in a 50/50 chance.
I was going off the assumption that Iso was not roleblock, but it seems that you are sure that he was.
I suppose the easiest way to clarify this misunderstanding is: @Iso - Were you roleblocked last night? Did you receive information as to whether or not your ability was successful?
I also don't know what you mean by "you would have seen it then." Please clarify.
I'm not sure what I am supposed to be looking for in Taredas' post.
That leaves four players who aren't strong town reads with two mislynches, which isn't quite enough mislynches to spare a PoE lynch on me (hopefully we have a vig or cop who will take care of that tonight).
This is the only part of it that I do not like.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Iso said he missed so I feel pretty good about that having gone down as stated.
No, I believe that Iso said he was choosing between Rhand and Tan, and he "missed" in the aspect that he targeted Tan when Rhand was the one who was killed.
He wouldn't have said that then.
And you would've seen it.
Read what was said again Wheat. Hans has the right interpretation of the situation. Iso targetted me and thus "missed". He did not miss as in was blocked, he just aimed it in the wrong direction.
Also Hans has made it clear he is not a tracker (See Post #481.) There is no way he could have seen anything.
Not sure why you feel this way. Even if Iso is innocent, which I'm still really troubled over whether or not to believe him, he admitted that his concrete evidence on dkings was a hoax.
Read Taredas' last post. Carefully.
Also he thinks his evidence IS concrete. He was trying to get us to think the same way because he really believes in the lynch.
Also think about it, why would Iso be blocked as scum.
OK note the bolded. When did ANYONE here say anything about being blocked? I mean really, I know you are paying attention to all this and not once has Iso said he was blocked. I even just took the time to go back and make sure he did not claim a block (Note: He did not)
Unvote Vote Wheat_Grinder
rezombied can wait. I'll take the scum claim thank you very much.
Gut says Cythare and fulcrum are the scum. More sure on Cythare - he went much more in-depth on fulcrum than he has anywhere else (Fadeblue in Amistarian 3), he cleared shockwave immediately after he claimed wincon (which reminds me heavily of how I cleared Tanarin immediately after his claim in Drury - mods almost always tell the Mafia the town win condition in some way, shape or form, and yet Cythare didn't take this into account), and his post 28 looks like scum discrediting an attack to me. Fulcrum just reads... off, and his jump onto Iso right after Iso admitted his gambit looks fishy.
Need to look at Tanarin's completed games, and I have no idea what to make of rezombied - he didn't really do much of anything in Apocalypse.
Unvote if voting, Vote: Cythare
More soon.
OK, as for the bolded, how did you clear me in Drury? I pretty much self cleared myself when I claimed blocked doc, on top of the whole Day 2 Kosa mess. There is also the fact that you tried to set me up for my mislynch the entire game until I threw the wrench in that by self voting to force the town to have to vote you for the win.
Also I assume you want recent scum games for me, if so only one of any relevance I have is Homestruck mafia, where I replaced in Day 2 and was only PoE out the game by Iso. All my other games, I have been town. I do have 2 other scum games on site in FFVII mafia and ASOFAI Mafia, but those are like... 4-5 years out of date and I have had many, many games under my belt since then.
Meant Tavanio, not you.
And bleh, read from where you replaced into Homestuck and all that tells me is that you're annoyingly hard to read. That's no help whatsoever.
Also, I think that Kosa is likely to not be scum -- I've given some loose reasons beforehand, but I figure I'll come out and say this now: Kosa and I were masonized last night. From the way Arnmod worded the PM, I believe that this effect only lasts 1 night....it's not a permanent mason.
Sadly, neither Kosa nor I are terribly invested at the moment, so we haven't been able to really use it much. But, I can't come up with a reason why scum!Kosa or scum!Kosateammate would choose to use that shot on me -- I'm sure there are better targets this game. I believe Occam's points to town!Kosa, here.
It's called a mason chat, but I've PM'ed Arnmod to get confirmation that if by "mason" he was confirming us as town to each other. His answer was negative: our alignments are unknown.
Regardless, I pretty much doubt scum!Arian would choose to masonize me, of all people. And I doubt even more that scum did it and are listening in: it doesn't make sense.
If I'm allowed to make a wild guess, I'd say some smart townie did it and chose us because we would quickly confirm ourselves as town to each other, and by extent to the whole town. That's my opinion on it.
I don't understand the logic of these posts.
Elaborate, please.
How would you "quickly confirm yourselves as town to each other" when the chat is a neighbor chat instead of a mason chat? Why couldn't one of you be scum and a neighborizer trying to get on the good side of the other? And if Kosa's right about a townie deciding to neighborize the two of you for whatever reason, what does that say beyond the beliefs of that one townie?
I targeted you, Tan. I figured if I didn't die, you or Rhand would.I opted for you and I missed, but wanted to use the unknown of my target as leverage to get dkings lynched since I'm 100% sure he's scum. And then hans ruined it. I guess I should've figured I was prime Tracker material, especially on Night 1.
Iso: How does the bolded work with your claim to have not known about Rhand's roleclaim?
Also think about it, why would Iso be blocked as scum.
You know, we have a saying on my home site: If Proph is too right about the scumteam, he's probably scum. Let's just say I'm really interested in how you answer Tanarin.
I knew as soon as I posted that that I'd get in trouble for it, but only after I hit submit.
I assumed that RB was what he meant by "missed". The reason I felt it was so is because I felt the chance of tanarin being an untargetable was pretty low, and those are the only two scenarios I can think of.
Take it or don't, that's what happened.
I really don't understand what is going on between hans and Iso after the posts hans and tan made. Did hans falseclaim a-****ing-gain or no.
Why don't I just go this way, actually, this is how I saw the game at the time of that post:
Iso said he watched dking. This was a lie, and he actually tried to watch tanarin but failed, and my idea was that it was probably a roleblock. Hans tracked Iso and didn't see Iso target anything.
Someone tell me what the **** actually happened because I am not understanding the hand signals.
he claimed Watcher (at least 1 shot), and was/is confirmed by Hans claiming that he Tracked Iso. I don't think that I've ever seen a scum watcher (though I have seen scum trackers).
This part is false. I cannot confirm anything that Iso did last night.
Also, I believe Void was a scum watcher in WWII mafia.
Again though, I don't see where Hans claimed a track ability ANYWHERE. I just think it was a well executed bluff call.
I targeted you, Tan. I figured if I didn't die, you or Rhand would.I opted for you and I missed, but wanted to use the unknown of my target as leverage to get dkings lynched since I'm 100% sure he's scum. And then hans ruined it. I guess I should've figured I was prime Tracker material, especially on Night 1.
Iso: How does the bolded work with your claim to have not known about Rhand's roleclaim?
What does my interpretation of how well Rhand plays the game have to do with his role?
he claimed Watcher (at least 1 shot), and was/is confirmed by Hans claiming that he Tracked Iso. I don't think that I've ever seen a scum watcher (though I have seen scum trackers).
This part is false. I cannot confirm anything that Iso did last night.
Also, I believe Void was a scum watcher in WWII mafia.
Again though, I don't see where Hans claimed a track ability ANYWHERE. I just think it was a well executed bluff call.
Oh, I remembered what I thought happened. I'm guessing hans targeted Rhand, too.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
he claimed Watcher (at least 1 shot), and was/is confirmed by Hans claiming that he Tracked Iso. I don't think that I've ever seen a scum watcher (though I have seen scum trackers).
This part is false. I cannot confirm anything that Iso did last night.
Also, I believe Void was a scum watcher in WWII mafia.
Again though, I don't see where Hans claimed a track ability ANYWHERE. I just think it was a well executed bluff call.
I had looked back and read that post after seeing your post. I thought Iso missing was in the sense of not successfully tracking his target. In that world, it means that hans wasn't claiming that he lied in that post and so I was still confused.
I think it's time for me to take a break from mafia after these last couple of games I'm in finish up.
Oh, and people are actually letting Iso go away with 1) not using his watch on the claimed doctor and 2) lying about having targeted (and found a guilty on) DKL?
I guess I'll just PTAP every few days and keep chatting with my BFF in the mason chat.
Oh, and people are actually letting Iso go away with 1) not using his watch on the claimed doctor and 2) lying about having targeted (and found a guilty on) DKL?
I guess I'll just PTAP every few days and keep chatting with my BFF in the mason chat.
1. He never saw the doc claim because he was so tunneled onto Dking so hard.
2. Iso would totally do that as town, if he's certain enough of his read. And probably he'd do it as scum too, if he thought he could confirm himself and win the game.
1. He never saw the doc claim because he was so tunneled onto Dking so hard.
2. Iso would totally do that as town, if he's certain enough of his read. And probably he'd do it as scum too, if he thought he could confirm himself and win the game.
Moral of the story: Taredas is scum either way.
1 and 2: Yeah, it's the kind of thing that AGAIN will bite us back in the ass if we reach LyLo with unknown-alignment-Iso: people giving him a free pass on his (twice) screwed up role-confirmation because meta. The only thing that gave me pause regarding iRebel/Shockwave's alignment was his claim... and I'm not seeing what was claimed being put into practice. It's the kind of thing that will make losing to scum Iso completely unnerving, but I digress.
- I'll double-check toMorrow to be sure, but Arian is probably town. His tone reminds me of Apocalypse - more concise and with more of a point to his reads than in WWE/Ataghan.
The bold reminds me of a behavior that scum!Taredas kept repeating in Drury Lane, which I pointed at in its spec chat:
Quote from "Myself in Drury Lane"s Spec Chat" »
I don't like this excessive "I have important stuff to say but I'll only say toMorrow" thing that Taredas is overusing right now. It may even be a kind of slip, since it shows that he's absolutely sure that he will live to see the next Day as he won't be NKed (because he's scum).
@Taredas: can you provide me with examples of you doing that as town?
Ya know what... screw it Iso. I think I am just overthinking the role claim Shock gave us vs Rhand's Jailer ability. One does not preclude the other being town as well.
1. He never saw the doc claim because he was so tunneled onto Dking so hard.
2. Iso would totally do that as town, if he's certain enough of his read. And probably he'd do it as scum too, if he thought he could confirm himself and win the game.
Moral of the story: Taredas is scum either way.
1 and 2: Yeah, it's the kind of thing that AGAIN will bite us back in the ass if we reach LyLo with unknown-alignment-Iso: people giving him a free pass on his (twice) screwed up role-confirmation because meta. The only thing that gave me pause regarding iRebel/Shockwave's alignment was his claim... and I'm not seeing what was claimed being put into practice. It's the kind of thing that will make losing to scum Iso completely unnerving, but I digress.
I think it has nothing to do with his alignment. It's not a free pass (implying that he's scummy but got away with it), it's null.
Oh, and people are actually letting Iso go away with 1) not using his watch on the claimed doctor and 2) lying about having targeted (and found a guilty on) DKL?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If I'm allowed to make a wild guess, I'd say some smart townie did it and chose us because we would quickly confirm ourselves as town to each other, and by extent to the whole town. That's my opinion on it.
My logic is that Arian and I have played a quite good amount of games together (and those games include virtually every alignment combination ever possible between us) and I generally feel confident trying to figure out his alignment. I believe it's the same for him regarding myself.
By putting us together into a mason chat, it would be even easier for us to have a hint about each others' alignment. And in that sense, the masonchat has only solidifed my opinion of town!Arian.
Sure, I could be utterly wrong and Arian is actually scum, laughting over my naivety... but what sense does that make? Of all people in this game, why would *I* be the one chosen to chitchat with scum?
In the same sense, considering that both of us are town, why would scum choose *us* to chitchat with one another? Ok, maybe they can eavesdrop in the QT, but why us? Why not Iso, Taredas or Wheat?
Based on that, I believe it was an ability used by a smart townie to allow us to have more insight regarding each others' alignment.
- I'll double-check toMorrow to be sure, but Arian is probably town. His tone reminds me of Apocalypse - more concise and with more of a point to his reads than in WWE/Ataghan.
The bold reminds me of a behavior that scum!Taredas kept repeating in Drury Lane, which I pointed at in its spec chat:
Quote from "Myself in Drury Lane"s Spec Chat" »
I don't like this excessive "I have important stuff to say but I'll only say toMorrow" thing that Taredas is overusing right now. It may even be a kind of slip, since it shows that he's absolutely sure that he will live to see the next Day as he won't be NKed (because he's scum).
@Taredas: can you provide me with examples of you doing that as town?
Not OTOH - but then, I haven't been in this particular situation (replacing in and giving initial reads in a game with a player I find easier to read as the game goes on - see WWE, where I caught onto Arian late D2) in quite a while. It *would* have applied in Apocalypse, but I replaced into Arian's slot and thus knew he was town.
There's probably an example in one of my 'Scum games - but I have a lot of completed games there and I'm not spending the time to search, especially not when the most recent such games are three years old. Best comparison on MTGS would be my DGB comments in Cross-Town, but DGB isn't so much a case of "read better lategame" as a case of "will never be confident in my reads".
Right now I'm feeling a scum team of: Shockwave07, dkingsland, fulcrum
What do you think about my post about fulcrum and Shockwave being an unaligned pair, due to fulcrum white-knighting iRebel?
I don't think they're scumbuddies together - I feel like fulcrum would probably go for the early bus as soon as pressure mounted on iRebel, rather than defending him in a very visible manner.
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't necessarily agree with it. While I get that most scumbuddies would go the bus route, something about the timing and perceived need to white-knight iRebel doesn't sit right with me.
Take a good look at this post, people. Take a good look.
Cythare recognizes the point a very likely townie is making, but shrugs it off with "it still doesn't sit right with me". That's classic scum trying to keep a mudsling/bus in play.
I've been going back and forth with fulcrum for a while, but he's come up on my list. A lot of the questions/responses I've been asking/giving him have migrated from scumhunting him to trying to understand views/responses that I don't understand. I'm still not enthused about some of his earlier play, but I've been liking his later stuff. If Kosa is lynched at any point and flips town, it'll make me revisit this, since my recent dislike of Kosa is coloring some of this read.
Prophylaxis has felt moderately town, but is still in the Undecided group because I haven't agreed with some of his points - not from an opinion perspective, but because they feel like they're using things out of context or incompletely.
EtR is scummy. While I wasn't convinced by Prophylaxis's case on gan_dan, coupled with EtR's posts, I'm at this conclusion. I strongly disliked his assessment of rezombied, and some of the highlights he provided for people seemed to not match what I would expect a full spread of those players' games (namely Kosa). I don't have too much else specific at this time.
Kosakosa is also scummy. return post, where he asked others who the lynch was rather than form his own opinions or just asked what he'd missed and used language that just didn't feel town, such as "why did you avoid my snipe at me". His 316 also read off to me - he quickly jumps on fulcrum's succinct response by painting his own picture. It's been a while since I've played with Kosa, but I don't remember him taking this approach to a succinct response previously when he wants a more detailed response. The show and dance about the wincon thing also seems manufactured to me. @Kosakosa, who were you were unvoting from here?
The rest are town or are null because I haven't taken the time to review them again.
Vote Kosakosa
A) Cythare's move off of fulcrum is not a town move - it's scum realizing that their push on a player is not gaining any traction and shifting targets. He also escape-hatches it, giving himself an easy way to justify switching back to fulcrum later.
B) Oh hey, look who thought that EtR was scummy but preferred a lynch on a player who's likely town. That's a prototypical scum position (case in point: my D1 stance on PRP in Drury).
(Note to self: Cythare doesn't feel like he's bussing fulcrum - his case feels like scum on town.)
It's minimalistic. It's lacking the tinge of RVS humor that you would expect a post of that sort to have. It's slightly obfuscating in its phrasing - "never not correct". These things made me scrutinize RobRoy's post, but I didn't mention my suspicions until after RVS was over, because of my experience with scumVoid in Deitrip not getting immediately lynched after I caught him so early in the game. Let's take a look at RobRoy's next RVS post:
From reading through Iso's logic there, it looks like you're cherry picking out a piece of his logic that suits your needs. That one piece is supplemented by additional thoughts both on the same post and subsequent posts. It looks like you're trying to find a fence to sit on.
@Prophylaxis: How do you feel about fulcrum?
In response to Proph attacking him for his RVS vote, Cythare... simultaneously insinuates that Proph is scum without committing to it AND tries to deflect Proph onto fulcrum.
You're voting Rhand and Rhand claims. No comment on the claim?
You've been fighting fulcrum thus far. No comments on what is going on right now?
What did you want me to say about the claim? "I believe it"/"I don't believe it"? I have no interest in lynching a claimed doc, but I don't see the issue with not unvoting. I wanted to wait to see if anything came out in the wash.
In terms of gan_dan/EtR: I have no context for ganderin_dan's behavior, but wasn't a fan of EtR's post, specifically some of his reasoning on Rezombied.
What do you think of my case on gan_dan?
What do you think of my PBPAish thing on you?
Besides fulcrum and Rhand, what are your reads?
I haven't gotten much from you thus far, and I'm not content with letting you skate by by quotewarring fulcrum all day.
1) I'm not very aware of ganderin_dan's meta, due to having never played with him except in Cyberspace Mafia (where he replaced in shortly before I was forcibly replaced). Aside from that, is aggression something that you associate with scum!gan_dan? Ultimately, your case on gan_dan doesn't sell me on his slot being scum due to unfamiliarity with his style, but seems like a legitimate starting point, and EtR's play seems scummy to me so far. The one exception that I find notable, though, is his reaction to my third vote compared to dkingsland (which I only realized just now upon reviewing both your case on gan_dan and your review of me). I doubt that the 2 players that would go after me for a 3rd RVS vote would both be scum, and dkings was much more level-headed about it. gan_dan's looked like an attempt to make me look worse by capitalizing on something pointed out by another player.
2) I thought I commented on this, but apparently didn't (only had the responding question re:fulcrum). I asked you about your feelings on fulcrum because one of your points against me was the succinctness of my RVS vote, which was about as succinct as fulcrum's. I was curious to see if that was something you'd at least address in your response.
I didn't like your "I guess Cythare can interpret this as smearing", but apparently this is something that I've just managed to miss during my career here. He was the first one to bring it up, so it just looked to me like an attempt to make me look bad by referencing something I'd never encountered before. Knowing that to be a thing now, though, I can get where everyone is coming from, though.
To answer your question that came with it: dkings explanation made sense, so no, I would not consider it smearing. I haven't gone back to review his posts in a while, but I did leave my vote on him for a while because I kept thinking he was still scummy.
I didn't shift my vote to fulcrum because I wanted to shift my vote to Shockwave and didn't want to start a counterwagon when I felt that the active wagon was a scummy player. He's still on the scummy end of the spectrum for me (although his later responses have been better), but despite the extended back and forth, he's never been my top scum read, so hasn't warranted my vote.
You "haven't gotten much from me", but I have done things other than quotewar with fulcrum. I'll provide a T/S list sometime soonish after I review and gather my thoughts.
In the meantime, unvote because Rhand hasn't been CCed.
A) Speaking of "EtR is scummy, but another player is scummier"...
B) This entire post is fencesitty as hell. Cythare leaves himself an out to go back to my predecessor (and the way he backs off of the "dking's argument is BS" is scummy as hell) *and* he refuses to commit his vote to the fulcrum attack (leaving his vote on likely town shockwave/Iso... less sure about Cythare/fulcrum unaligned pairs...).
Hey Kosa, you never answered "the rest" of those questions from yesterDay but conveniently hammered because "we're finally ready to end the Day"?
Vote Kosakosa
Don't be ridiculous. Look at your questions to me:
1) Who I were voting before fulcrum: I'm not answering questions that you check yourself in previous votecounts. Your attempt to paint me as scum on it:
Unless you're saying that you can't remember who you were voting for, maybe because you're scum?
Is ridiculous and pointless, since votes are public information.
2) A T/S list: I don't remember needing to comply with your request simply because you've demanded it.
I wasn't talking about my questions specifically. You were the one that indicated that there were other questions that you needed to follow up on here:
@Kosa: I dunno if I agree with your logic that the scum MUST have the town wincon due to it not being in the OP. Why would it not be possible that scum legit don't have the wincon? I have seen games where mods have left out wincons on purpose. In fact I was cleared as town in one such game, and here are the role PMs.
Because it doesn't make sense for such a concerned mod like Arn to purposefully deny town's wincon for the scumteam. Mafia is first and foremost a game of behavioral analysis, not comparison between PM quotes.
Take a look at the following exchange:
Townie: "Ok, you've roleclaimed but forgot to state your wincon."
Scum: "Oh sure this is my wincon *doesn't know town's actual wincon, botches it*"
Townie: "Huh nice try scum, but you're not town with that wincon! This is the right one *states actual town wincon*"
In the above situation, considering a game of 12 players, 2 of them would have their alignments instantly confirmed over a PM formatting issue. I can't think of any reasons as to why a good mod would purposefully promote that. If you do, please share it.
Meanwhile, I'll stay with Occam: Arnmod gave town's wincon to the scumteam, probably via falseclaim. Note that, as per Occam, I believe Shockwave's incorrect wincon quoting is due to him not checking his role PM (or his falseclaim/scumchat, if he's scum), not because he's scum and wasn't given town's wincon. If this is indeed the case, he's much more likely to be town since I'd expect scum to be extremely meticulous when claiming.
Furthermore, not only that kind of carelessness comes from town, but his role is also town-aligned and provable. So in my opinion we shouldn't be worried about him by now, despite his controversial behavior earlier in the game.
--------------
Answers to the No.1 student of Caex's School of PBPA'ing as Mafia in pink.
Oh ok, so let me get this straight. By not questioning my question, you, in fact, just admitted that:
1) Your pressure on me was fabricated by your necessity to unvote Rhand without gathering suspicion, since he would never been lynched with such a claim;
2) You're asking irrelevant questions.
And I'm the scum?
Oh cool, you're admitting that was a terrible, terrible question. That makes this a little easier.
Three real lol's in a row? No. This amusement is either faked or entirely too enthusiastic to come from a townie.
You've never played a full game with me before. You don't have any basis to know whether I am or am not easily amused.
Hint: I am. Especially when nice, funny stuff happens such as me liking my role or watching someone not named Iso reach claim range during RVS.
Then we have an opportunistic jump on Rodemy, because "odd!=scummy."
Opportunistic jump? I voted Rodemy BEFORE saying that. I'm tired of explaining that I voted him because he self-consciously backed off of a player he wanted lynched because "it was too soon for him to be at L-2". It didn't add up.
You're repeating the same bull**** arguments from EtR that I've already dealt with to bulk up your "case" against me. Typical scum trying to appear busy.
He made three posts in rvs.. and no votes whatsoever.
Except he made an effort to make a joke about being a JoAT.. or not...
and then made an effort to respond to a vote AGAINST him..
Yet no vote... no abstain...
It's odd. haven't seen that behavior in RVS before. Though i can't use the one scum game i know he was scum in because he wasn't IN rvs...
Odd != scummy.
Still haven't explained. Why is not voting in RVS scummy?
In Post 33, Kosa rips into dkings' post. After this attack, he FOS's him in order to vote for Rodemy. The weird thing here is that Rodemy doesn't appear to be that strong of a scum read. His main argument against Rodemy is that he rescinded when hans was at L-2, because there's no way a towny would not want a scumsuspect to not have to claim at the very beginning of the day from RVS votes.
It obviously wasn't a strong read. Obviously the only argument I had against Rodemy was him backing off from Hans at L-2 because that was the only relevant thing that had happened until that moment. What is your point here?
Is blatantly awful, especially considering who KK's dealing with in the former of the posts. It's too situational to be a pressure vote, and serves as a fantastic springboard into a fresh wagon.
Ok, so you're saying just because I'm voting Rodemy I'm not entitled to question people voting him? Pfft.
Complete misrep of gan_dan's point.
What was his point then? Why do you keep tackling stuff that I've already answered to?
The magenta responses in #33 are even worse, somehow. You're criticizing him for responding to the only thing worth responding to, and trying to defend not unvoting someone at L-3 less than 50 posts into a game. It's not the fact that you placed that vote, it's the fact that you make some vain attempt to (inexplicably) defend it while simultaneously mudslinging.
I'm criticizing him for making pointless statements. When I read that post the first thing it occured to me was that DKL was trying too hard to appear the scumhunting townie when in reality his words are devoid of meaningful content.
Also, his (and yours) "He didn't unvote a player at L-3 during RVS! YAAARG HE'S SCUM!" antics are borderline ridiculous.
As opposed to Kosa's "He unvoted a player at L-2 during RVS! YAAARG, HE'S SCUM. Again, we have a misrep, but this time of dkings, as dkings' statement was nowhere near that aggressive.
Toss in a FoS for good measure (Just in case the Rodemy wagon doesn't get any traction? Because it's not going to.), season to taste, simmer.
I consistently FoS people around. Get used to it and stop impersonating Guardman.
Defensive as hell reaction, with a personal attack against gan_dan.
Wait, what?
Next up, after the cases against dkings and Rodemy are stalled, we have an attack against iRebel, funnily enough, based on a misrep of iRebel's statements. Is everyone starting to see the pattern here?
Yeah, I'm seeing the pattern of you bragging about misreps without never pointing them out. If iRebel or anyone doesn't pay attention to whatever he's saying, it's MY fault for pointing it out? Oh ok, sorry for scumhunting then.
The rest of the post is a long ass defense against Tan, gan_dan and dkings. I suspect the iRebel bit was only put in so that the entire post wasn't one long defense.
Post 76 consists of followup on iRebel for the same bull**** point, along with some more overly certain statements about iRebel's alignment ("Please. Just walk your way to the gallows and save us time.").
Post 115 is a ****-ton more defense, as well as a reiteration of his bull**** reasoning against iRebel. There's also some doubtcasting of me on the basis I used to have a slight favorable read of Kosa, because of course townies never change their reads.
The bold is probably the most self-conscious statement I've laid my eyes upon since LnG claiming "Town VT" in BSG Mafia.
Random doubtcasting of Tan that is never followed up, beyond a one off sentence about a "gut-feeling."
Oh guess why is that? Maybe it is because that was solely a gut feeling and I never took the time to reread Tan and doublecheck it? OOOOOHHHHH DIVINATION
@Proph: Whenever I've seen a messenger role in a game, it's been scum/anti-town. It was a Mask in Majora, so I guess that one doesn't really truly count. It was scum in Ataghan, though, and I want to say there was one in Survival Horror on the scumteam, too. Can you provide examples of this type of role being town?
--------
Arn is not a bad mod. He would never allow players to be confirmed town by quoting a part of their PM.
I went back to Arnmod's last game, Basic #73 (Disney Villains), and it had both town and scum wincon in the OP. Considering this game's important info in the OP such as rules and stuff is pretty much copypasted from Disney's, it's pretty safe to assume he left out of it on purpose. Therefore, it's also safe to assume scum are aware of town's wincon because they've probably received it directly from the mod. It makes much more sense than Arn screwing his game over a technicality.
That said, Shockwave's claimed role oozes townishness, and it's way too consistent to be a falseclaim. Plus, it's provable. Let time judge it.
Unvote
I don't like Tan much, but it's more of a gut feeling than anything else. There's also something very very wrong with fulcrum. Gotta get a reread.
I have no qualms in lynching Rhand, as something in the back of my head tells me Rodemy's outburst was a sham because reasons. But he's at L-2 and we ought to hear his claim. So Rhand, please claim.
Marvel at Kosa's complete logic fail in regards to Arn including the win-condition. This kind of logic could only come from someone who already knows that scum are told the town win condition.
Check my response to Tanarin in the beginning of this post. Also, why do you consistently fail to provide any basis as to what you're stating?
Be amazed at the way he jumps off of Shockwave, despite arguing against the wincon case, because he knows there's no way Shockwave is being lynched toDay.
Again, responses to Tanarin. Also LOL at you accusing me of doing EXACTLY what you've done with Rhand. The difference being, I clearly state the intent and mindset behind my actions, unlike you.
Gasp as he follows up his gut scumread of Tan with a gutscum read of Tan. He couldn't just drop it, regardless of the fact that he has nothing to justify this read. Oh no, that would look scummy.
Already explained but it's ok, keep strawmanning me. Good luck trying to get myself lynched.
And be astounded as he says there is something "very, very wrong" with me and then decides to re-read, because he doesn't actually have anything against me, but realizes that I'll be a good target to start the next lynch train. Oh, and there's also a demand for Rhand to claim because of "something in the back of [his] head." Right.
Why do you keep fluffing your attacks on me? And if you're going to misrep me, please do it decently: it's plainly obvious that I've demanded a claim from Rhand simply because he was at L-2. Period.
Hey fulcrum why did you disguise your unvote of Rhand, a wagon that wouldn't go through after his claim, as pressure on me over an irrelevant question?
Then we have Kosa implying that I tried to hide my unvote of Rhand (where's the scum motivation in doing that?), in order to damage my credibility before I make a full case against him. He also calls my question irrelevant, when it's actually about the incredibly scummy mentality he posted with.
Bold: the scum motivation is avoiding to draw attention when leaving the uncc'ed doc's wagon. For instance, I had to go back and see who you were unvoting when you voted me, and I only did it because I was the one being voted, since you simply jumped on me out of nowhere. Most importantly, you've never bothered to comment on Rhand's claim.
By switching the thread's attention focus with a random, virtually naked vote, you skim through mislynch wagons easily without people ever noticing it unless they pay close attention and reread the thread.
Oh ok, so let me get this straight. By not questioning my question, you, in fact, just admitted that:
1) Your pressure on me was fabricated by your necessity to unvote Rhand without gathering suspicion, since he would never been lynched with such a claim;
2) You're asking irrelevant questions.
And I'm the scum?
Which reminds me that I don't remember you ever calling/having me as scum bar one little fencesitty smear in #209. So please enlighten us on your thought process here because I'm not seeing it.
I don't get where you're trying to go with that question, since its been already answered in the very post you've quoted: since Arn is highly regarded as a good, meticulous mod, it's much more likely that scum are aware about town's wincon because they were given it directly than to consider that Arn would screw the scumteam over PM formatting issues. It's Occam.
It has occured to me that there's even a possibility of the opposite: maybe he don't want us to know scum's verbatim wincon. That would make far more sense than Arn slipping up on PM formatting issues over a clearly copypasted OP from his previous game. Thankfully, it's quite easy to confirm if I'm right about this.
Arnmod: what's the scumteam's wincon?
But regardless of it, I don't like you trying to make a fuss out of it. It's way too convenient when coupled with your unvoting of Rhand.
Unvote
Vote fulcrum
First off, no. When someone sees that the town win condition has been removed from the first post by a meticulous mod, the assumption to make is that it was done on purpose.
Yes, it was what I've assumed. But since it makes no sense for Arn to have removed it solely to screw up the scumteam, I wondered if in reality the scumteam's wincon was secret for some reason. Since it isn't, I can't see why Arn did it, but I'm absolutely sure scum have it as I've already explained.
Kosa's assumption (that it must have been given to scum) makes no sense unless he already know it to be true.
Not repeating myself here.
Second off all, his question was garbage meant to weaken any attack against him and he knew it.
I know you hate yourself about slipping over it. Better luck next time.
And finally, I love the way he justified his vote for me. He couldn't just leave it as a plain OMGUS (because that would look too scummy) so he threw in an asinine comment pretending my unvote of Rhand was in any way sinister.
Please. I'm far from being a Mafia savant, but I know better than OMGUSing people that I know won't get me lynched. You screwed up over Rhand and got caught. Yeah you will be lynched, yeah it sucks, but you'll eventually get over it.
tl:dr
Kosa needs to die, and he needs to die toDay.
Sure
I need to sleep now. Will answer the rest tomorrow (except Cythare's @my previous vote. Stop being lazy and/or asking pointless questions. You check yourself in the votecount.)
Meanwhile please vote fulcrum kthx.
You clearly indicate on the 9th that you will "answer the rest tomorrow", then you respond to one other question of Tanarin's (which he asked in response to your post), then lurk for 3 days and hammer on the 12th without even circling back to the fact that there is anything outstanding for you.
And there were reasons for my question. You had unvoted for a while and other than your back and forth with fulcrum, you'd only really expressed suspicion of Tanarin because "idk why but I don't like you Tan". I was asking the question to see what your reaction would be.
Are you unwilling to give reads because you don't have any real reads or are you just being petulant?
This is 100% scum mudslinging. Look at the tone - straight ad-hominem, tries to hammer home the same point over and over, explains his vote with reaction testing when that vote was clearly anything but.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Taredas: I'm not quite sure I've understood your answer.
My question was rather simple: if there's a town game of yours in which you say something like "I'll delve into further details toMorrow".
My point is that, in Drury Lane, I've observed that your constant assertment that you'd *be* alive the next Day was a scumtell, since you didn't fear being NKed.
I've pointed out you doing the same here, and I want to know if you've ever done it as town before.
I've never seen "X votes == end of RVS" before, so color me suspicious of your smearing me based on my vote timing in RVS. It was clearly an RVS vote.
Unvote Vote dkingsland
I can see OMGUS coming from town, but the way he dismisses the vote is scum to the core - Cythare just writes it off as a smear.
Can you explain the difference here? I've explained to Prophylaxis that calling it a smear was hyperbolic, but it doesn't change the fact that I disliked the vote and that I felt the response was warranted.
Right now I'm feeling a scum team of: Shockwave07, dkingsland, fulcrum
What do you think about my post about fulcrum and Shockwave being an unaligned pair, due to fulcrum white-knighting iRebel?
I don't think they're scumbuddies together - I feel like fulcrum would probably go for the early bus as soon as pressure mounted on iRebel, rather than defending him in a very visible manner.
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't necessarily agree with it. While I get that most scumbuddies would go the bus route, something about the timing and perceived need to white-knight iRebel doesn't sit right with me.
Take a good look at this post, people. Take a good look.
Cythare recognizes the point a very likely townie is making, but shrugs it off with "it still doesn't sit right with me". That's classic scum trying to keep a mudsling/bus in play.
No. I understand that scumbuddies usually go the bus route, but I don't see why that doesn't preclude someone going against the grain, especially given that it was unwarranted and out of the blue.
I've been going back and forth with fulcrum for a while, but he's come up on my list. A lot of the questions/responses I've been asking/giving him have migrated from scumhunting him to trying to understand views/responses that I don't understand. I'm still not enthused about some of his earlier play, but I've been liking his later stuff. If Kosa is lynched at any point and flips town, it'll make me revisit this, since my recent dislike of Kosa is coloring some of this read.
Prophylaxis has felt moderately town, but is still in the Undecided group because I haven't agreed with some of his points - not from an opinion perspective, but because they feel like they're using things out of context or incompletely.
EtR is scummy. While I wasn't convinced by Prophylaxis's case on gan_dan, coupled with EtR's posts, I'm at this conclusion. I strongly disliked his assessment of rezombied, and some of the highlights he provided for people seemed to not match what I would expect a full spread of those players' games (namely Kosa). I don't have too much else specific at this time.
Kosakosa is also scummy. return post, where he asked others who the lynch was rather than form his own opinions or just asked what he'd missed and used language that just didn't feel town, such as "why did you avoid my snipe at me". His 316 also read off to me - he quickly jumps on fulcrum's succinct response by painting his own picture. It's been a while since I've played with Kosa, but I don't remember him taking this approach to a succinct response previously when he wants a more detailed response. The show and dance about the wincon thing also seems manufactured to me. @Kosakosa, who were you were unvoting from here?
The rest are town or are null because I haven't taken the time to review them again.
Vote Kosakosa
A) Cythare's move off of fulcrum is not a town move - it's scum realizing that their push on a player is not gaining any traction and shifting targets. He also escape-hatches it, giving himself an easy way to justify switching back to fulcrum later.
B) Oh hey, look who thought that EtR was scummy but preferred a lynch on a player who's likely town. That's a prototypical scum position (case in point: my D1 stance on PRP in Drury).
(Note to self: Cythare doesn't feel like he's bussing fulcrum - his case feels like scum on town.)
A) By this point, I hadn't thought that fulcrum was scum for a while. I'd continued to ask him questions because I actually wanted to understand his logic, but as noted, he'd been reading less scummy over time. Note that a large part of this is because I think Kosa is scum and I don't see fulcrum and Kosa as buddies. However, as noted above, if Kosa did flip town, it would mean to me that fulcrum would be worth reviewing again. How is it scummy to say that?
B) More like "look who thinks one scummy player warrants my vote more than another scummy player". Yes, EtR flipped scum, but that doesn't change my opinion of Kosa. If anything, his play after this post solidified my read on him.
Also, why the "note to self" in the middle of your case?
It's minimalistic. It's lacking the tinge of RVS humor that you would expect a post of that sort to have. It's slightly obfuscating in its phrasing - "never not correct". These things made me scrutinize RobRoy's post, but I didn't mention my suspicions until after RVS was over, because of my experience with scumVoid in Deitrip not getting immediately lynched after I caught him so early in the game. Let's take a look at RobRoy's next RVS post:
From reading through Iso's logic there, it looks like you're cherry picking out a piece of his logic that suits your needs. That one piece is supplemented by additional thoughts both on the same post and subsequent posts. It looks like you're trying to find a fence to sit on.
@Prophylaxis: How do you feel about fulcrum?
In response to Proph attacking him for his RVS vote, Cythare... simultaneously insinuates that Proph is scum without committing to it AND tries to deflect Proph onto fulcrum.
Yes. If you actually go back and review the context of that, it looks like Prophy is cherry picking a piece of an argument that suits his needs, which looked scummy. He needed to be called on it. The "deflection onto fulcrum" was to see if he would catch that fulcrum's RVS vote was similarly succinct. He didn't, but since he said he'd do a review of fulcrum, I figured I'd follow up then. I lost track.
You're voting Rhand and Rhand claims. No comment on the claim?
You've been fighting fulcrum thus far. No comments on what is going on right now?
What did you want me to say about the claim? "I believe it"/"I don't believe it"? I have no interest in lynching a claimed doc, but I don't see the issue with not unvoting. I wanted to wait to see if anything came out in the wash.
In terms of gan_dan/EtR: I have no context for ganderin_dan's behavior, but wasn't a fan of EtR's post, specifically some of his reasoning on Rezombied.
What do you think of my case on gan_dan?
What do you think of my PBPAish thing on you?
Besides fulcrum and Rhand, what are your reads?
I haven't gotten much from you thus far, and I'm not content with letting you skate by by quotewarring fulcrum all day.
1) I'm not very aware of ganderin_dan's meta, due to having never played with him except in Cyberspace Mafia (where he replaced in shortly before I was forcibly replaced). Aside from that, is aggression something that you associate with scum!gan_dan? Ultimately, your case on gan_dan doesn't sell me on his slot being scum due to unfamiliarity with his style, but seems like a legitimate starting point, and EtR's play seems scummy to me so far. The one exception that I find notable, though, is his reaction to my third vote compared to dkingsland (which I only realized just now upon reviewing both your case on gan_dan and your review of me). I doubt that the 2 players that would go after me for a 3rd RVS vote would both be scum, and dkings was much more level-headed about it. gan_dan's looked like an attempt to make me look worse by capitalizing on something pointed out by another player.
2) I thought I commented on this, but apparently didn't (only had the responding question re:fulcrum). I asked you about your feelings on fulcrum because one of your points against me was the succinctness of my RVS vote, which was about as succinct as fulcrum's. I was curious to see if that was something you'd at least address in your response.
I didn't like your "I guess Cythare can interpret this as smearing", but apparently this is something that I've just managed to miss during my career here. He was the first one to bring it up, so it just looked to me like an attempt to make me look bad by referencing something I'd never encountered before. Knowing that to be a thing now, though, I can get where everyone is coming from, though.
To answer your question that came with it: dkings explanation made sense, so no, I would not consider it smearing. I haven't gone back to review his posts in a while, but I did leave my vote on him for a while because I kept thinking he was still scummy.
I didn't shift my vote to fulcrum because I wanted to shift my vote to Shockwave and didn't want to start a counterwagon when I felt that the active wagon was a scummy player. He's still on the scummy end of the spectrum for me (although his later responses have been better), but despite the extended back and forth, he's never been my top scum read, so hasn't warranted my vote.
You "haven't gotten much from me", but I have done things other than quotewar with fulcrum. I'll provide a T/S list sometime soonish after I review and gather my thoughts.
In the meantime, unvote because Rhand hasn't been CCed.
A) Speaking of "EtR is scummy, but another player is scummier"...
B) This entire post is fencesitty as hell. Cythare leaves himself an out to go back to my predecessor (and the way he backs off of the "dking's argument is BS" is scummy as hell) *and* he refuses to commit his vote to the fulcrum attack (leaving his vote on likely town shockwave/Iso... less sure about Cythare/fulcrum unaligned pairs...).
A) No. At this point (since you're quoting things out of order), Kosa hadn't started sticking out to me (the song and dance of 316) was what made me go back and review), and I hadn't come to a decision on EtR, because I had no point of reference for the meta piece and was still mulling over whether I just disliked EtR's posts because they called me scummy or whether I actually thought they were scummy.
B) I don't understand what you're getting at here. Where do I "leave a backdoor to go back to your predecessor"?
Hey Kosa, you never answered "the rest" of those questions from yesterDay but conveniently hammered because "we're finally ready to end the Day"?
Vote Kosakosa
Don't be ridiculous. Look at your questions to me:
1) Who I were voting before fulcrum: I'm not answering questions that you check yourself in previous votecounts. Your attempt to paint me as scum on it:
Unless you're saying that you can't remember who you were voting for, maybe because you're scum?
Is ridiculous and pointless, since votes are public information.
2) A T/S list: I don't remember needing to comply with your request simply because you've demanded it.
I wasn't talking about my questions specifically. You were the one that indicated that there were other questions that you needed to follow up on here:
@Kosa: I dunno if I agree with your logic that the scum MUST have the town wincon due to it not being in the OP. Why would it not be possible that scum legit don't have the wincon? I have seen games where mods have left out wincons on purpose. In fact I was cleared as town in one such game, and here are the role PMs.
Because it doesn't make sense for such a concerned mod like Arn to purposefully deny town's wincon for the scumteam. Mafia is first and foremost a game of behavioral analysis, not comparison between PM quotes.
Take a look at the following exchange:
Townie: "Ok, you've roleclaimed but forgot to state your wincon."
Scum: "Oh sure this is my wincon *doesn't know town's actual wincon, botches it*"
Townie: "Huh nice try scum, but you're not town with that wincon! This is the right one *states actual town wincon*"
In the above situation, considering a game of 12 players, 2 of them would have their alignments instantly confirmed over a PM formatting issue. I can't think of any reasons as to why a good mod would purposefully promote that. If you do, please share it.
Meanwhile, I'll stay with Occam: Arnmod gave town's wincon to the scumteam, probably via falseclaim. Note that, as per Occam, I believe Shockwave's incorrect wincon quoting is due to him not checking his role PM (or his falseclaim/scumchat, if he's scum), not because he's scum and wasn't given town's wincon. If this is indeed the case, he's much more likely to be town since I'd expect scum to be extremely meticulous when claiming.
Furthermore, not only that kind of carelessness comes from town, but his role is also town-aligned and provable. So in my opinion we shouldn't be worried about him by now, despite his controversial behavior earlier in the game.
--------------
Answers to the No.1 student of Caex's School of PBPA'ing as Mafia in pink.
Oh ok, so let me get this straight. By not questioning my question, you, in fact, just admitted that:
1) Your pressure on me was fabricated by your necessity to unvote Rhand without gathering suspicion, since he would never been lynched with such a claim;
2) You're asking irrelevant questions.
And I'm the scum?
Oh cool, you're admitting that was a terrible, terrible question. That makes this a little easier.
Three real lol's in a row? No. This amusement is either faked or entirely too enthusiastic to come from a townie.
You've never played a full game with me before. You don't have any basis to know whether I am or am not easily amused.
Hint: I am. Especially when nice, funny stuff happens such as me liking my role or watching someone not named Iso reach claim range during RVS.
Then we have an opportunistic jump on Rodemy, because "odd!=scummy."
Opportunistic jump? I voted Rodemy BEFORE saying that. I'm tired of explaining that I voted him because he self-consciously backed off of a player he wanted lynched because "it was too soon for him to be at L-2". It didn't add up.
You're repeating the same bull**** arguments from EtR that I've already dealt with to bulk up your "case" against me. Typical scum trying to appear busy.
He made three posts in rvs.. and no votes whatsoever.
Except he made an effort to make a joke about being a JoAT.. or not...
and then made an effort to respond to a vote AGAINST him..
Yet no vote... no abstain...
It's odd. haven't seen that behavior in RVS before. Though i can't use the one scum game i know he was scum in because he wasn't IN rvs...
Odd != scummy.
Still haven't explained. Why is not voting in RVS scummy?
In Post 33, Kosa rips into dkings' post. After this attack, he FOS's him in order to vote for Rodemy. The weird thing here is that Rodemy doesn't appear to be that strong of a scum read. His main argument against Rodemy is that he rescinded when hans was at L-2, because there's no way a towny would not want a scumsuspect to not have to claim at the very beginning of the day from RVS votes.
It obviously wasn't a strong read. Obviously the only argument I had against Rodemy was him backing off from Hans at L-2 because that was the only relevant thing that had happened until that moment. What is your point here?
Is blatantly awful, especially considering who KK's dealing with in the former of the posts. It's too situational to be a pressure vote, and serves as a fantastic springboard into a fresh wagon.
Ok, so you're saying just because I'm voting Rodemy I'm not entitled to question people voting him? Pfft.
Complete misrep of gan_dan's point.
What was his point then? Why do you keep tackling stuff that I've already answered to?
The magenta responses in #33 are even worse, somehow. You're criticizing him for responding to the only thing worth responding to, and trying to defend not unvoting someone at L-3 less than 50 posts into a game. It's not the fact that you placed that vote, it's the fact that you make some vain attempt to (inexplicably) defend it while simultaneously mudslinging.
I'm criticizing him for making pointless statements. When I read that post the first thing it occured to me was that DKL was trying too hard to appear the scumhunting townie when in reality his words are devoid of meaningful content.
Also, his (and yours) "He didn't unvote a player at L-3 during RVS! YAAARG HE'S SCUM!" antics are borderline ridiculous.
As opposed to Kosa's "He unvoted a player at L-2 during RVS! YAAARG, HE'S SCUM. Again, we have a misrep, but this time of dkings, as dkings' statement was nowhere near that aggressive.
Toss in a FoS for good measure (Just in case the Rodemy wagon doesn't get any traction? Because it's not going to.), season to taste, simmer.
I consistently FoS people around. Get used to it and stop impersonating Guardman.
Defensive as hell reaction, with a personal attack against gan_dan.
Wait, what?
Next up, after the cases against dkings and Rodemy are stalled, we have an attack against iRebel, funnily enough, based on a misrep of iRebel's statements. Is everyone starting to see the pattern here?
Yeah, I'm seeing the pattern of you bragging about misreps without never pointing them out. If iRebel or anyone doesn't pay attention to whatever he's saying, it's MY fault for pointing it out? Oh ok, sorry for scumhunting then.
The rest of the post is a long ass defense against Tan, gan_dan and dkings. I suspect the iRebel bit was only put in so that the entire post wasn't one long defense.
Post 76 consists of followup on iRebel for the same bull**** point, along with some more overly certain statements about iRebel's alignment ("Please. Just walk your way to the gallows and save us time.").
Post 115 is a ****-ton more defense, as well as a reiteration of his bull**** reasoning against iRebel. There's also some doubtcasting of me on the basis I used to have a slight favorable read of Kosa, because of course townies never change their reads.
The bold is probably the most self-conscious statement I've laid my eyes upon since LnG claiming "Town VT" in BSG Mafia.
Random doubtcasting of Tan that is never followed up, beyond a one off sentence about a "gut-feeling."
Oh guess why is that? Maybe it is because that was solely a gut feeling and I never took the time to reread Tan and doublecheck it? OOOOOHHHHH DIVINATION
@Proph: Whenever I've seen a messenger role in a game, it's been scum/anti-town. It was a Mask in Majora, so I guess that one doesn't really truly count. It was scum in Ataghan, though, and I want to say there was one in Survival Horror on the scumteam, too. Can you provide examples of this type of role being town?
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Arn is not a bad mod. He would never allow players to be confirmed town by quoting a part of their PM.
I went back to Arnmod's last game, Basic #73 (Disney Villains), and it had both town and scum wincon in the OP. Considering this game's important info in the OP such as rules and stuff is pretty much copypasted from Disney's, it's pretty safe to assume he left out of it on purpose. Therefore, it's also safe to assume scum are aware of town's wincon because they've probably received it directly from the mod. It makes much more sense than Arn screwing his game over a technicality.
That said, Shockwave's claimed role oozes townishness, and it's way too consistent to be a falseclaim. Plus, it's provable. Let time judge it.
Unvote
I don't like Tan much, but it's more of a gut feeling than anything else. There's also something very very wrong with fulcrum. Gotta get a reread.
I have no qualms in lynching Rhand, as something in the back of my head tells me Rodemy's outburst was a sham because reasons. But he's at L-2 and we ought to hear his claim. So Rhand, please claim.
Marvel at Kosa's complete logic fail in regards to Arn including the win-condition. This kind of logic could only come from someone who already knows that scum are told the town win condition.
Check my response to Tanarin in the beginning of this post. Also, why do you consistently fail to provide any basis as to what you're stating?
Be amazed at the way he jumps off of Shockwave, despite arguing against the wincon case, because he knows there's no way Shockwave is being lynched toDay.
Again, responses to Tanarin. Also LOL at you accusing me of doing EXACTLY what you've done with Rhand. The difference being, I clearly state the intent and mindset behind my actions, unlike you.
Gasp as he follows up his gut scumread of Tan with a gutscum read of Tan. He couldn't just drop it, regardless of the fact that he has nothing to justify this read. Oh no, that would look scummy.
Already explained but it's ok, keep strawmanning me. Good luck trying to get myself lynched.
And be astounded as he says there is something "very, very wrong" with me and then decides to re-read, because he doesn't actually have anything against me, but realizes that I'll be a good target to start the next lynch train. Oh, and there's also a demand for Rhand to claim because of "something in the back of [his] head." Right.
Why do you keep fluffing your attacks on me? And if you're going to misrep me, please do it decently: it's plainly obvious that I've demanded a claim from Rhand simply because he was at L-2. Period.
Hey fulcrum why did you disguise your unvote of Rhand, a wagon that wouldn't go through after his claim, as pressure on me over an irrelevant question?
Then we have Kosa implying that I tried to hide my unvote of Rhand (where's the scum motivation in doing that?), in order to damage my credibility before I make a full case against him. He also calls my question irrelevant, when it's actually about the incredibly scummy mentality he posted with.
Bold: the scum motivation is avoiding to draw attention when leaving the uncc'ed doc's wagon. For instance, I had to go back and see who you were unvoting when you voted me, and I only did it because I was the one being voted, since you simply jumped on me out of nowhere. Most importantly, you've never bothered to comment on Rhand's claim.
By switching the thread's attention focus with a random, virtually naked vote, you skim through mislynch wagons easily without people ever noticing it unless they pay close attention and reread the thread.
Oh ok, so let me get this straight. By not questioning my question, you, in fact, just admitted that:
1) Your pressure on me was fabricated by your necessity to unvote Rhand without gathering suspicion, since he would never been lynched with such a claim;
2) You're asking irrelevant questions.
And I'm the scum?
Which reminds me that I don't remember you ever calling/having me as scum bar one little fencesitty smear in #209. So please enlighten us on your thought process here because I'm not seeing it.
I don't get where you're trying to go with that question, since its been already answered in the very post you've quoted: since Arn is highly regarded as a good, meticulous mod, it's much more likely that scum are aware about town's wincon because they were given it directly than to consider that Arn would screw the scumteam over PM formatting issues. It's Occam.
It has occured to me that there's even a possibility of the opposite: maybe he don't want us to know scum's verbatim wincon. That would make far more sense than Arn slipping up on PM formatting issues over a clearly copypasted OP from his previous game. Thankfully, it's quite easy to confirm if I'm right about this.
Arnmod: what's the scumteam's wincon?
But regardless of it, I don't like you trying to make a fuss out of it. It's way too convenient when coupled with your unvoting of Rhand.
Unvote
Vote fulcrum
First off, no. When someone sees that the town win condition has been removed from the first post by a meticulous mod, the assumption to make is that it was done on purpose.
Yes, it was what I've assumed. But since it makes no sense for Arn to have removed it solely to screw up the scumteam, I wondered if in reality the scumteam's wincon was secret for some reason. Since it isn't, I can't see why Arn did it, but I'm absolutely sure scum have it as I've already explained.
Kosa's assumption (that it must have been given to scum) makes no sense unless he already know it to be true.
Not repeating myself here.
Second off all, his question was garbage meant to weaken any attack against him and he knew it.
I know you hate yourself about slipping over it. Better luck next time.
And finally, I love the way he justified his vote for me. He couldn't just leave it as a plain OMGUS (because that would look too scummy) so he threw in an asinine comment pretending my unvote of Rhand was in any way sinister.
Please. I'm far from being a Mafia savant, but I know better than OMGUSing people that I know won't get me lynched. You screwed up over Rhand and got caught. Yeah you will be lynched, yeah it sucks, but you'll eventually get over it.
tl:dr
Kosa needs to die, and he needs to die toDay.
Sure
I need to sleep now. Will answer the rest tomorrow (except Cythare's @my previous vote. Stop being lazy and/or asking pointless questions. You check yourself in the votecount.)
Meanwhile please vote fulcrum kthx.
You clearly indicate on the 9th that you will "answer the rest tomorrow", then you respond to one other question of Tanarin's (which he asked in response to your post), then lurk for 3 days and hammer on the 12th without even circling back to the fact that there is anything outstanding for you.
And there were reasons for my question. You had unvoted for a while and other than your back and forth with fulcrum, you'd only really expressed suspicion of Tanarin because "idk why but I don't like you Tan". I was asking the question to see what your reaction would be.
Are you unwilling to give reads because you don't have any real reads or are you just being petulant?
This is 100% scum mudslinging. Look at the tone - straight ad-hominem, tries to hammer home the same point over and over, explains his vote with reaction testing when that vote was clearly anything but.
This is 100% grade-A BS. The fact that he hasn't gone back to address this continues to confirm his alignment to me (and now he's hiding behind "Arian and I can confirm each other as town with our mason chat instead of addressing my concerns). I keep asking the same questions because he isn't answering them. My tone is getting more aggressive with him because I'm tiring of his avoidance.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
inb4 kosa doesn't have to target himself with his Neighborizor ability
Kosa thanked someone for his gift at the start of the Day. It could be an elaborate ruse, but I'm inclined to agree that we were the mutual targets of a 3rd party.
My logic is that Arian and I have played a quite good amount of games together (and those games include virtually every alignment combination ever possible between us) and I generally feel confident trying to figure out his alignment. I believe it's the same for him regarding myself.
By putting us together into a mason chat, it would be even easier for us to have a hint about each others' alignment. And in that sense, the masonchat has only solidifed my opinion of town!Arian.
Sure, I could be utterly wrong and Arian is actually scum, laughting over my naivety... but what sense does that make? Of all people in this game, why would *I* be the one chosen to chitchat with scum?
In the same sense, considering that both of us are town, why would scum choose *us* to chitchat with one another? Ok, maybe they can eavesdrop in the QT, but why us? Why not Iso, Taredas or Wheat?
Based on that, I believe it was an ability used by a smart townie to allow us to have more insight regarding each others' alignment.
These parts read kinda fake to me.
------------------
I've been doing a bit of thinking, and I have decided that 1 of Rezombied or Fulcrum may be scum, but only if Iso is not scum, I'd suspect. (Gut says Rezombied is more likely scum of the two.)
I think that, logically speaking, Iso's flip will be the most beneficial to us at this time. If he is scum, I'd suspect that his teammate is Dkings/Taredas because that is the only way that his gambit could work successfully. If he is town, then we know that the scum would have known that dkings did not perform the kill (unless Iso was just really lucky), and I'd guess that they would have just gone along with Iso to push through the easy mislynch, that way they could then push a lynch on Iso the next day for being wrong. This is why I have grown slightly suspicious of Rezombied and Fulcrum, but I'm not too sure in this current state.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Also the reason Proph did it became pretty obvious to me from reading the thread; it's entirely because he had Kosa and Arian as his top two town reads.
Also the reason Proph did it became pretty obvious to me from reading the thread; it's entirely because he had Kosa and Arian as his top two town reads.
Sorry to pop your bubble Kosa.
Still good to have the confirmation, and reflects favorably upon your slot.
Also the reason Proph did it became pretty obvious to me from reading the thread; it's entirely because he had Kosa and Arian as his top two town reads.
Sorry to pop your bubble Kosa.
See? I said it was the most probable scenario!
But yeah, if you're reading the QT, you've already noticed how we aren't making the most frequent use of it.
OK Wheat, why did you feel the need to claim the action? I mean you were not under any pressure, nor TBH was Kosa or Arian. As Arian said, the claim does make your spot look good, I just personally think it was stupid.
I targeted you, Tan. I figured if I didn't die, you or Rhand would.I opted for you and I missed, but wanted to use the unknown of my target as leverage to get dkings lynched since I'm 100% sure he's scum. And then hans ruined it. I guess I should've figured I was prime Tracker material, especially on Night 1.
Iso: How does the bolded work with your claim to have not known about Rhand's roleclaim?
What does my interpretation of how well Rhand plays the game have to do with his role?
Ah. Ok.
I'm relly not sure what to think of Iso. I do like Wheat's reaction to Tanarin and the way he revealed the neighborizing ability, so I'll trust his greater experience for the moment.
Oh, and people are actually letting Iso go away with 1) not using his watch on the claimed doctor and 2) lying about having targeted (and found a guilty on) DKL?
I guess I'll just PTAP every few days and keep chatting with my BFF in the mason chat.
You could attack him instead of putting the onus on everyone else.
I'll delve back into the game on Friday or Saturday and see what comes up.
OK Wheat, why did you feel the need to claim the action? I mean you were not under any pressure, nor TBH was Kosa or Arian. As Arian said, the claim does make your spot look good, I just personally think it was stupid.
Unvote Vote Rezombied
Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
I did it because there was way too much speculation on something that isn't helping us find scum.
Also every time Kosa gloated about it I became a bit more annoyed (since I would not have made that action) and I just didn't want to hear it anymore.
In other news I plan on outlining why Taredas is scum soon. No specific timeframe since I don't know when I'm planning on doing homework.
I have agreed to take over moderation of this game temporarily; Arnnaria is away handling a personal emergency. I have the setup and will get a votecount up shortly. Thank you for your understanding.
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hey all... I'm retired, not dead. Check out what I'm doing these days (and beg me to come back if you want):
I have agreed to take over moderation of this game temporarily; Arnnaria is away handling a personal emergency. I have the setup and will get a votecount up shortly. Thank you for your understanding.
I have agreed to take over moderation of this game temporarily; Arnnaria is away handling a personal emergency. I have the setup and will get a votecount up shortly. Thank you for your understanding.
Does that means this game is suddenly a bastard game?
I have agreed to take over moderation of this game temporarily; Arnnaria is away handling a personal emergency. I have the setup and will get a votecount up shortly. Thank you for your understanding.
Does that means this game is suddenly a bastard game?
I was wondering that myself. <.<
Anyway more votes on Rezombied everyone. He has not posted here since the 24th, yet has posted elsewhere since then (Mod: Prod please on rezombied). He has also actively avoided trying to commit to any wagon with any reasoning aside from"gut", nor has he tried to form a case on anyone else. All he has done is literally ride on the biggest wagon in the game ALL GAME.
nAnyway more votes on Rezombied everyone. He has not posted here since the 24th, yet has posted elsewhere since then (Mod: Prod please on rezombied). He has also actively avoided trying to commit to any wagon with any reasonig aside from"gut", nor has he tried to form a case on anyone else. All he has done is literally ride on the biggest wagon in the game ALL GAME.
So how does that make him scum and not bad.
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No, I believe that Iso said he was choosing between Rhand and Tan, and he "missed" in the aspect that he targeted Tan when Rhand was the one who was killed.
Not sure why you feel this way. Even if Iso is innocent, which I'm still really troubled over whether or not to believe him, he admitted that his concrete evidence on dkings was a hoax.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
He wouldn't have said that then.
And you would've seen it.
Read Taredas' last post. Carefully.
Also he thinks his evidence IS concrete. He was trying to get us to think the same way because he really believes in the lynch.
Also think about it, why would Iso be blocked as scum.
There are so many things in this post where I have no idea what you are talking about. I believe that we are on completely separate pages.
This is Iso's original post.
The "you" = Tan
His use of "opted" leads me to believe that he said that he missed in the sense that he chose the wrong target in a 50/50 chance.
I was going off the assumption that Iso was not roleblock, but it seems that you are sure that he was.
I suppose the easiest way to clarify this misunderstanding is:
@Iso - Were you roleblocked last night? Did you receive information as to whether or not your ability was successful?
I also don't know what you mean by "you would have seen it then." Please clarify.
I'm not sure what I am supposed to be looking for in Taredas' post.
This is the only part of it that I do not like.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Read what was said again Wheat. Hans has the right interpretation of the situation. Iso targetted me and thus "missed". He did not miss as in was blocked, he just aimed it in the wrong direction.
Also Hans has made it clear he is not a tracker (See Post #481.) There is no way he could have seen anything.
OK note the bolded. When did ANYONE here say anything about being blocked? I mean really, I know you are paying attention to all this and not once has Iso said he was blocked. I even just took the time to go back and make sure he did not claim a block (Note: He did not)
Unvote Vote Wheat_Grinder
rezombied can wait. I'll take the scum claim thank you very much.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Meant Tavanio, not you.
And bleh, read from where you replaced into Homestuck and all that tells me is that you're annoyingly hard to read. That's no help whatsoever.
Get me one more cleared townie and I'll help dig the grave.
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Wait, what? Where on earth are you getting this from?
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
How would you "quickly confirm yourselves as town to each other" when the chat is a neighbor chat instead of a mason chat? Why couldn't one of you be scum and a neighborizer trying to get on the good side of the other? And if Kosa's right about a townie deciding to neighborize the two of you for whatever reason, what does that say beyond the beliefs of that one townie?
Iso: How does the bolded work with your claim to have not known about Rhand's roleclaim?
You know, we have a saying on my home site: If Proph is too right about the scumteam, he's probably scum. Let's just say I'm really interested in how you answer Tanarin.
I assumed that RB was what he meant by "missed". The reason I felt it was so is because I felt the chance of tanarin being an untargetable was pretty low, and those are the only two scenarios I can think of.
Take it or don't, that's what happened.
I really don't understand what is going on between hans and Iso after the posts hans and tan made. Did hans falseclaim a-****ing-gain or no.
Why don't I just go this way, actually, this is how I saw the game at the time of that post:
Iso said he watched dking. This was a lie, and he actually tried to watch tanarin but failed, and my idea was that it was probably a roleblock. Hans tracked Iso and didn't see Iso target anything.
Someone tell me what the **** actually happened because I am not understanding the hand signals.
Again though, I don't see where Hans claimed a track ability ANYWHERE. I just think it was a well executed bluff call.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
What does my interpretation of how well Rhand plays the game have to do with his role?
Oh, I remembered what I thought happened. I'm guessing hans targeted Rhand, too.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I had looked back and read that post after seeing your post. I thought Iso missing was in the sense of not successfully tracking his target. In that world, it means that hans wasn't claiming that he lied in that post and so I was still confused.
I think it's time for me to take a break from mafia after these last couple of games I'm in finish up.
OK OK OK Super cliff notes version time.
As a result of this, Wheat said this:
Thing is, no one at all in any of this has even implied there is was an RB floating around that caused this mess to happen.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
I guess I'll just PTAP every few days and keep chatting with my BFF in the mason chat.
But Iso wasn't actually RB'd, right?
No, he was not roleblocked.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
1. He never saw the doc claim because he was so tunneled onto Dking so hard.
2. Iso would totally do that as town, if he's certain enough of his read. And probably he'd do it as scum too, if he thought he could confirm himself and win the game.
Moral of the story: Taredas is scum either way.
1 and 2: Yeah, it's the kind of thing that AGAIN will bite us back in the ass if we reach LyLo with unknown-alignment-Iso: people giving him a free pass on his (twice) screwed up role-confirmation because meta. The only thing that gave me pause regarding iRebel/Shockwave's alignment was his claim... and I'm not seeing what was claimed being put into practice. It's the kind of thing that will make losing to scum Iso completely unnerving, but I digress.
Now, regarding Taredas:
The bold reminds me of a behavior that scum!Taredas kept repeating in Drury Lane, which I pointed at in its spec chat:
@Taredas: can you provide me with examples of you doing that as town?
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
I think it has nothing to do with his alignment. It's not a free pass (implying that he's scummy but got away with it), it's null.
I DIDN'T KNOW HE WAS THE GODDAMN DOC
HOW MANY TIMES AM I GOING TO HAVE TO POST THIS
Correct.
I'm the Pony Express Post Office. I have 3 abilities.
* Target a player and send them a limited-length message.
* Target a player and Watch them that Night.
* Target a player and make their ability unblockable that Night.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Kosa, did you ever follow up on this?
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
By putting us together into a mason chat, it would be even easier for us to have a hint about each others' alignment. And in that sense, the masonchat has only solidifed my opinion of town!Arian.
Sure, I could be utterly wrong and Arian is actually scum, laughting over my naivety... but what sense does that make? Of all people in this game, why would *I* be the one chosen to chitchat with scum?
In the same sense, considering that both of us are town, why would scum choose *us* to chitchat with one another? Ok, maybe they can eavesdrop in the QT, but why us? Why not Iso, Taredas or Wheat?
Based on that, I believe it was an ability used by a smart townie to allow us to have more insight regarding each others' alignment.
Not OTOH - but then, I haven't been in this particular situation (replacing in and giving initial reads in a game with a player I find easier to read as the game goes on - see WWE, where I caught onto Arian late D2) in quite a while. It *would* have applied in Apocalypse, but I replaced into Arian's slot and thus knew he was town.
There's probably an example in one of my 'Scum games - but I have a lot of completed games there and I'm not spending the time to search, especially not when the most recent such games are three years old. Best comparison on MTGS would be my DGB comments in Cross-Town, but DGB isn't so much a case of "read better lategame" as a case of "will never be confident in my reads".
---
Why Cythare is scum:
I can see OMGUS coming from town, but the way he dismisses the vote is scum to the core - Cythare just writes it off as a smear.
Take a good look at this post, people. Take a good look.
Cythare recognizes the point a very likely townie is making, but shrugs it off with "it still doesn't sit right with me". That's classic scum trying to keep a mudsling/bus in play.
A) Cythare's move off of fulcrum is not a town move - it's scum realizing that their push on a player is not gaining any traction and shifting targets. He also escape-hatches it, giving himself an easy way to justify switching back to fulcrum later.
B) Oh hey, look who thought that EtR was scummy but preferred a lynch on a player who's likely town. That's a prototypical scum position (case in point: my D1 stance on PRP in Drury).
(Note to self: Cythare doesn't feel like he's bussing fulcrum - his case feels like scum on town.)
In response to Proph attacking him for his RVS vote, Cythare... simultaneously insinuates that Proph is scum without committing to it AND tries to deflect Proph onto fulcrum.
A) Speaking of "EtR is scummy, but another player is scummier"...
B) This entire post is fencesitty as hell. Cythare leaves himself an out to go back to my predecessor (and the way he backs off of the "dking's argument is BS" is scummy as hell) *and* he refuses to commit his vote to the fulcrum attack (leaving his vote on likely town shockwave/Iso... less sure about Cythare/fulcrum unaligned pairs...).
This is 100% scum mudslinging. Look at the tone - straight ad-hominem, tries to hammer home the same point over and over, explains his vote with reaction testing when that vote was clearly anything but.
Cythare, you're town why, exactly?
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
My question was rather simple: if there's a town game of yours in which you say something like "I'll delve into further details toMorrow".
My point is that, in Drury Lane, I've observed that your constant assertment that you'd *be* alive the next Day was a scumtell, since you didn't fear being NKed.
I've pointed out you doing the same here, and I want to know if you've ever done it as town before.
I don't have double-target abilities
Taredas (2): Iso; Wheat_Grinder
fulcrum (1): Kosakosa
Kosakosa (1): Cythare
Iso (3): Hansanator; fulcrum; Rezombied
Cythare (1): Taredas
Wheat_Grinder (1): Tanarin
Not Voting (1): Arianrhod
With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch!
In short, because I'm bad at town and know better for all of these things as scum. In detail:
Can you explain the difference here? I've explained to Prophylaxis that calling it a smear was hyperbolic, but it doesn't change the fact that I disliked the vote and that I felt the response was warranted.
No. I understand that scumbuddies usually go the bus route, but I don't see why that doesn't preclude someone going against the grain, especially given that it was unwarranted and out of the blue.
A) By this point, I hadn't thought that fulcrum was scum for a while. I'd continued to ask him questions because I actually wanted to understand his logic, but as noted, he'd been reading less scummy over time. Note that a large part of this is because I think Kosa is scum and I don't see fulcrum and Kosa as buddies. However, as noted above, if Kosa did flip town, it would mean to me that fulcrum would be worth reviewing again. How is it scummy to say that?
B) More like "look who thinks one scummy player warrants my vote more than another scummy player". Yes, EtR flipped scum, but that doesn't change my opinion of Kosa. If anything, his play after this post solidified my read on him.
Also, why the "note to self" in the middle of your case?
Yes. If you actually go back and review the context of that, it looks like Prophy is cherry picking a piece of an argument that suits his needs, which looked scummy. He needed to be called on it. The "deflection onto fulcrum" was to see if he would catch that fulcrum's RVS vote was similarly succinct. He didn't, but since he said he'd do a review of fulcrum, I figured I'd follow up then. I lost track.
A) No. At this point (since you're quoting things out of order), Kosa hadn't started sticking out to me (the song and dance of 316) was what made me go back and review), and I hadn't come to a decision on EtR, because I had no point of reference for the meta piece and was still mulling over whether I just disliked EtR's posts because they called me scummy or whether I actually thought they were scummy.
B) I don't understand what you're getting at here. Where do I "leave a backdoor to go back to your predecessor"?
This is 100% grade-A BS. The fact that he hasn't gone back to address this continues to confirm his alignment to me (and now he's hiding behind "Arian and I can confirm each other as town with our mason chat instead of addressing my concerns). I keep asking the same questions because he isn't answering them. My tone is getting more aggressive with him because I'm tiring of his avoidance.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Kosa thanked someone for his gift at the start of the Day. It could be an elaborate ruse, but I'm inclined to agree that we were the mutual targets of a 3rd party.
I lol'd.
These parts read kinda fake to me.
------------------
I've been doing a bit of thinking, and I have decided that 1 of Rezombied or Fulcrum may be scum, but only if Iso is not scum, I'd suspect. (Gut says Rezombied is more likely scum of the two.)
I think that, logically speaking, Iso's flip will be the most beneficial to us at this time. If he is scum, I'd suspect that his teammate is Dkings/Taredas because that is the only way that his gambit could work successfully. If he is town, then we know that the scum would have known that dkings did not perform the kill (unless Iso was just really lucky), and I'd guess that they would have just gone along with Iso to push through the easy mislynch, that way they could then push a lynch on Iso the next day for being wrong. This is why I have grown slightly suspicious of Rezombied and Fulcrum, but I'm not too sure in this current state.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Proph set up the chat room, and I was unable to stop that action (I wanted to just take no action since I didn't know the game state)
After reading the thread I felt it was a poor decision on Proph's part because Kosa x Arian feels a little like an echo chamber to me.
I would much rather have paired someone to Iso.
Sorry to pop your bubble Kosa.
Still good to have the confirmation, and reflects favorably upon your slot.
See? I said it was the most probable scenario!
But yeah, if you're reading the QT, you've already noticed how we aren't making the most frequent use of it.
I'm only the matchmaker, not a spier.
(Ability is called Lunch Date, is why I say matchmaker)
Unvote Vote Rezombied
Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
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Ah. Ok.
I'm relly not sure what to think of Iso. I do like Wheat's reaction to Tanarin and the way he revealed the neighborizing ability, so I'll trust his greater experience for the moment.
Unvote
You could attack him instead of putting the onus on everyone else.
I'll delve back into the game on Friday or Saturday and see what comes up.
I did it because there was way too much speculation on something that isn't helping us find scum.
Also every time Kosa gloated about it I became a bit more annoyed (since I would not have made that action) and I just didn't want to hear it anymore.
In other news I plan on outlining why Taredas is scum soon. No specific timeframe since I don't know when I'm planning on doing homework.
I have agreed to take over moderation of this game temporarily; Arnnaria is away handling a personal emergency. I have the setup and will get a votecount up shortly. Thank you for your understanding.
https://twitch.tv/annorax10 (classic retro speedruns & occasional MTGO/MTGA screwaround streams)
https://twitch.tv/SwiftorCasino (yes, my team and I run live dealer games for the baldman using his channel points as chips)
Yeah, Proph is the smart townie I was referring about, not you
Jokes aside, unless you're scum with Arian (incredibly unlikely), as Arian said, you're pretty much town.
Arian is also pretty much town.
And I'm also pretty much town.
Game's easier now huh?
@Arian: I'll answer the QT when I get home
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Hope everything is okay / turns out okay, Arn!
It's ok, your opinion is pretty much unimportant since you're either misguided town or scum.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Does that means this game is suddenly a bastard game?
OOOOOOOHHHHHHH SNAP
I was wondering that myself. <.<
Anyway more votes on Rezombied everyone. He has not posted here since the 24th, yet has posted elsewhere since then (Mod: Prod please on rezombied). He has also actively avoided trying to commit to any wagon with any reasoning aside from"gut", nor has he tried to form a case on anyone else. All he has done is literally ride on the biggest wagon in the game ALL GAME.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
So how does that make him scum and not bad.