@ Spoon: Eh, so he might be Agent Smith. Doesn't mean you should vote for him right now. Let's wait to see how more of the day turns out.
Quote from Rafaelk »
Who died and made you the boss of what the town has decided?
Why does that post feel like you are commenting on the town as a separate entity, e.g. one you are not a part of?
When did you stop beating your wife?
In order: nobody, I just feel a bit vindicated; does it?; and I wasn't under the impression I was married, unless someone's been getting me drunk more than I thought.
Carrion pigeons is really starting to bother me with his desire to swing his votes around. The troubling part is that the town seems to be following his lead into bandwagons. Unvote Cyan, Vote carrion pigeons. While I know multivoters are usually town, Court Mafia and a nagging suspicion that carrion pigeons is really distracting the town makes this a necessary vote.
I've already addressed the reasoning for my vote. If you read my reasoning, you'll get my answer. I've also already voted CP since then, but well, go ahead and read my posts before you post again. I dont feel the need to explain myself twice, especially after you obviously havent read my prior posts.
Interesting. I didn't expect uncooperative as the resulting attitude for my question.
Free and wild? I'm okay with that. Recklessly? No. Reckless would have been piling votes on Xyre for no other reason than because I could put him in lynching range.
[B]Unvote, unvote, unvote, vote Vampyr.[B]
For the record, I'm defining reckless the way I see it. Not the way you see it. I see throwing your votes around like mad as reckless. So how about letting me have my own opinion. Much appreciated.
Alert subroutines have been engaged, Mr. Vampyr. Your lack of conviction is troubling.
Mr. Xyre has been in the spotlight for some time, has he not? But now the focus of discussion is shifting. Other options have been brought up. And it is now that you choose to unvote, without feeling there's any better place for your vote to go. Your ostensible reason for doing so does not inspire confidence, Mr. Vampyr.
You impugn Mr. Carrion's judgment, without leveling any actual charges. What, Mr. Vampyr, was the point of that remark?
You do not favor the wagon on Mr. Hvir, but you cannot bring yourself to give a more specific reason than "the reasons don't seem valid."
You see Mr. Loran as a good target, but you do not place your own vote.
[B]Unvote, Vote Vampyr.[B] Your entire post seems to me to be a test balloon. You've taken off your vote and not even moved it onto the person you ostensibly think is a good lead. You want us to remember that you're here, but you don't want to offend anyone.
Well, Mr. Vampyr, I shall not forget that you are here. Make no mistake about that. You cannot escape the gaze of the Matrix.
So I should place my vote as soon as I mention my suspicions on someone? Am I not allowed to get some sort of response from the person I asked a question of before committing my vote?
As for my post being a test ballon, it was in regards to loran. The other points were just to express my feelings on the current situtations. As for loran, I asked a question to see what sort of response I'd get from him. I got a reaction to my question and as a result I will [B]Vote: loran16[/B].
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The wagon on CP seems a bit ridiculous considering he's out swinging a triple-vote hammer. As the person in question from Court Mafia, I certainly understand wanting to get 'confirmed', but from what I'm seeing, it appears there's a specific pattern to how he posts and votes. I need to double-back and ensure that's the case, but it's quite possible he didn't have any choice but to come out.
Vampyr seems a bit tentative and changed his tune quickly upon being called out for it by arimnaes. ZDS hopped onto that train of thought thereafter, and I'm getting the same vibes from him I got in Blood Moon, which isn't good.
Feeling better about Xyre and Hvir's reactions seem okay to me.
So I should place my vote as soon as I mention my suspicions on someone? Am I not allowed to get some sort of response from the person I asked a question of before committing my vote?
As for my post being a test ballon, it was in regards to loran. The other points were just to express my feelings on the current situtations. As for loran, I asked a question to see what sort of response I'd get from him. I got a reaction to my question and as a result I will Vote: loran16.
I'm sorry, so you mean you still haven't read my posts on the matter? Or you just don't feel like it? That's nice to know... Seriously, you repeat a question asked to me a page earlier about an earlier vote and expect me to spill out a whole post spelling it out for you?
@Loran : So you're keeping your vote on Xyre because of one vote that you "don't really think" is justified ? Oh, wait, you just moved your vote to a very likely townie. Even better.
Speaking about that, I entirely disagree with the suspicion being thrown on Carrion Pigeons by some. CP = multi-voter = almost surely town = he doesn't care if he looks scummy = he does what he wants.
Being a multivoter, especially in a specialty game, does not clear anyone. And when said multivoter starts acting scummy by doing things like throwing around votes with little reasoning, a vote is perfectly reasonable. Im not quite sure why you're so willing to give the guy a free pass.
Your giving me really scummy vibes ZDS, and at this point I'm really interested in what alx has to say about you.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Well, based on CP's early posts, the pattern I suspected was there based on his recent trend is not. So, I'm not sure why he's come out guns blazing waving his multi-vote around. But frankly, I don't even want him to answer that.
I fully disagree with Loran - until otherwise disproven, multi-voters - particularly with more than 2 votes - are generally town. If, down the road, CP cannot demonstrate his ability to continute to multi-vote, it should be considered fully suspicious. In fairness to loran's other point, though, this is (an Azrael) specialty, so the balance of power may be different. Some things are hard to overcome in weighting a setup, though. A scum with three votes- that'd be awfully tough.
So, until we can suitably "check" his voting ability or have a better idea of the scope of overall power, it should be assumed he's at least "more likely town than not". Tossing a wagon on CP today is ridiculous.
One thing I've noticed about carrion pigeons' style in this game is that, while he has three (or rather, thanks to DYH, four) votes, he's only really using one at a time, like he's trying to slow-roll it, but that seems inconsistent with him bringing out all of his votes at once.
I want to see what DYH thinks about his voting trends, but for now, I think mafia logic requires a vote on him. I want to see what he says.
Cleared ? Oh now, I wouldn't dare. I'm saying he's shown an ability that is usually found on townies, and his behaviour makes me think he's town. He is a very likely townie.
So, now you warn before wagonning ? How nice.
Quite obviously, upon discovering the existence of a scum multi-voter in Court Mafia (months after being added to the Specialty queue), Azrael decided to exchange a possibly crucial town role in his already existing set-up for Matrix Mafia with a similar scum role, then modified the entire set-up to re-balance it. Makes sense.
His behavior makes you think he's town? A bunch of people would disagree on that. Unless you think we all need to play like a multivoting chamber. Most multivoters use their ability to show increased suspicion on one person, but instead he's spreading suspicion around....literally! Without much explanations too i might add. I'm quite curious how you find that...protown.
Also, that last paragraph makes no sense whatsoever. What people learned from court mafia, was that they shouldnt be so gullible and quick to immediately assume innocence from the ability. Multivoters arent necessarily townie, and with Az having created this game, after the blockbuster of sin city no less, we shouldnt assume anything about any role that isnt completely mod confirmed (and even then, az does tell us not to trust him.).
The fact that the multivoter (at least at the start) in court mafia was scum isnt the reason we're claiming cp is scum. It's just an example of why the "multivoters are town" logic is false.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
So… you've read the entirety of his billion games?
I really really really do not like this response from Dork to Alex2. Feels really unnecesarrily adversarial. Like, do I need to throw a ball up in the air ONE BILLION TIMES to know that it's normal for the ball to fall back down?
How many times does a behavior have to be repeated before you can logically predict it? I am pretty sure that sample size does not have to be 100% for the prediction to be reasonable.
Quote from Xyre »
1) My question - there was nothing scummy about it. I was checking to make sure it was a typo, he responded, I got my answer. It was nothing more than a simple strategy. There was nothing scummy about it.
I don't like this line of reasoning from Xyre. First of all, it's dismissive in a place where being dismissive seems counter-intuitive. Like, can't you see that your motiviations are easily questionable here?
It *is* scummy to probe for information early in a game. If someone breadcrumbs, it is often scummy to draw attention to that breadcrumb.
It's not *always*, but how can we know you rmotivation? For you to dismiss the isse by saying "there was nothing scummy about it" just seems really out of place.
That being said... I don't think you were backtracking, but I do think you got defensive. And as I said before, I am not sure if that means anything from you or not.
Quote from Xyre »
Oh, and speaking in hypotheticals now: what would I gain from my question? If he outright said "I have a posting restriction", then I've learned something about his role (this is assuming I did it to learn something), but what does that get me? There are no characters in the Matrix that speak that way, and certainly none who might also be represented by a gimmick. Overall, all I've received is information which pretty much becomes public domain anyway after he's posted a few more times. If I were mafia, there are many better questions than the one I asked for acquiring information, and I don't think I'm idiot enough to ask this question over those. The only conclusion I can reach is that I asked the question with intentions other than acquiring information that a scum can use. Therefore, I have done nothing a scum would do, and therefore am not scummy.
Prove me wrong.
You have to realize, it doesn't matter if you "gain" anything from it. What matters is if your motivation was scum aligned. It doesn't matter if it was logical or well thought out. Otherwise, OMGUS would never be an accusation for catching scum. Actually, we'd never CATCH scum, because scum would always figure out if their actions are logically beneficial and never do the bad actions and the town would always lose.
See the flaw in your logic here?
Quote from Axelrod »
Look, son, it's normal to be curious about things. No one could blame you for that. You see a guy posting like he's got Multiple-Personality disorder, and you wonder "what's up with that?" I get it.
Wait... axelrod talking down to people?
That is not normal Axelrod behavior. 0_0
Quote from Cyan »
I'm not sure how I feel about the bandwagon on Xyre. On the one hand, it seems like the attacks on him are based upon absolutely nothing.
On the other hand, for the wagon being so flimsy, he is really, really reacting badly to it, which doesn't make much sense.
Mostly, his actions and reactions thus far remind me of how I acted at the beginning of Trek Mafia. Vote Xyre based upon that.
Oh man... this is the scummiest post in the game so far.
Depending on what the game looks like when I get to the end, there's a good chance my vote is going on Cyan.
Quote from Lauren »
Unvote Vote Xyre. Ummmm, thats what we call OMGUSing.....first vamp now cyan.
I mean, i really didnt think you were that scummy at first, but these last 2 votes are very questionable.
And if Cyan turns up scum, I'm coming back to visit Lauren. :wave:
Quote from Cyan »
CP is abnormally aggressive today, even moreso than I normally am. I'm not sure if that means something, but it seems worth making a note of.
Actually, I've been pretty happy with how he's posting. It reads as authentic to me. Is it making you nervous for some reason?
Quote from HVir »
By 'wagon', are you referring to carrion pigeons rather poorly veiled attempt to disprove my earlier statement about voting being unnecessary so early in the game, and Axelrod's follow-up vote? Storm in a teacup.
Wow.... could you possibly be any more unjustifiably dismissive of something?
He didn't "poorly veil" anything. He flat out told you that you're wrong. And he's right. You are wrong. Votes are like Candy, and I give them out to all the pretty girls.
Quote from Abbey »
Alright, I'm caught up and even though this wagon has passed, my impression of Xyre's defense is a lot like what I saw out of him in Magic Mafia where he was town.
I tend to trust your judgement regardless of alignment, so I am gonna take your word on this till I get my own read.
Also, what is with the voting for the mod thing? Is that a ML thing? Cause, I modkill people who vote for me when I'm a mod.
Ok, I am caught up now.
Vote: Cyan
I believe he had as many as 3 posts that bugged me in this batch.
Dear Cyan,
Please stop trying to kill me in my sleep. I do not take kindly to it. More over, DIAF.
Love,
Grak
Also, what is with the voting for the mod thing? Is that a ML thing? Cause, I modkill people who vote for me when I'm a mod.
Read Sin City mafia. Az was in fact a perfectly lynchable person (and was lynched) in sin city. Sadly, it didn do the town much good.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Abbeygargoyle's curiosity gets the better of him. Outside the mall, far, far below, are a pair of curiously red and shiny sneakers. He slips downstairs.
In his wake, follows Hawkeye7.
After the long, long walk to reach the first floor, they discover that the grand entrance to the mall has been barricaded with merchandise from the mall, and overturned cars, from the parking garage. Everything is still. This far down, the light barely penetrates.
Somewhere in the food court, they hear a series of crashes, as if someone is overturning tables. The noise is coming closer.
The two look at one another, and decide to return to the upper levels.
It is just abnormal for CP to be highly aggressive, that's all. I've played in plenty of games where he was mafia, and plenty where he was town, but this is the first time I remember him acting in this fashion.
I'm not suggesting a wagon on him today at all. He clearly has 3 votes at his disposal, which makes him a poor choice for a Day 1 wagon. I just felt that his stark difference in playstyle was worth making note of.
If anything, alot of the attacks against CP currently seem fairly terrible. Like Xyre accusing him of being inconsistent because he has access to 3 votes and only uses one at a time? That is called being intelligent, not being inconsistent. We all know he has 3 votes, there is no real reason for him to constantly throw them all around. All it would do is put a false sense of pressure on people and force claims before they would otherwise be necessary. Is there some reason that you want this to happen, Xyre?
Then we have people trying to throw dirt on him because 'multi-voters aren't always town'. While it's true that they're not, having a multi-vote should really be good enough to make someone a poor day 1 candidate, unless their content is just so scummy that it can't be ignored. But that is not the case here, I don't really see any flaws in CP's content. At this point, I'm fairly convinced that he is town, despite my misgivings about his suddenly hyper-aggressive playstyle.
Oh also, Unvote, Vote Xyre. I really can't justify that attack on CP from a town perspective.
@AG: It's true that Xyre is acting he has as town in previous games. He's also acting like he has as scum in previous games. Xyre just constantly reacts poorly to any kind of pressure being upon him. I think this should be considered a non-tell in this case.
Vampyr seems a bit tentative and changed his tune quickly upon being called out for it by arimnaes. ZDS hopped onto that train of thought thereafter, and I'm getting the same vibes from him I got in Blood Moon, which isn't good.
I wasn't changing my tune. I got a response from loran and that's what I was waiting for before I decided to vote him or not.
I'm sorry, so you mean you still haven't read my posts on the matter? Or you just don't feel like it? That's nice to know... Seriously, you repeat a question asked to me a page earlier about an earlier vote and expect me to spill out a whole post spelling it out for you?
No, I don't expect a whole post from you if you already answered it. Apparently I missed it. Jeez, that is a possibility. But I did expect at least a civil response rather then the way you've directed comments towards me.
I'm not sure what all the fuss over Grakthis was. I'm finding him quite humorous so far.
@Az: I don't think CP voted me three times. He unvoted three times and then voted me once.
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It is just abnormal for CP to be highly aggressive, that's all. I've played in plenty of games where he was mafia, and plenty where he was town, but this is the first time I remember him acting in this fashion.
CP is not the only one that seems to be acting abnormal so far this game. There are a few people who are not playing the way I'm used to see them play.
Is this a result of role playing? Or maybe something from their role? I'm not sure, but it's something that I feel I should keep watching.
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What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Wow.... could you possibly be any more unjustifiably dismissive of something?
He didn't "poorly veil" anything. He flat out told you that you're wrong. And he's right. You are wrong. Votes are like Candy, and I give them out to all the pretty girls.
The gist of what I said was that Xyre's votes for Cyan, then for Vampyr, weren't accomplishing much, since it takes 13 votes to lynch anyone at this stage, and both Cyan and Vampyr at that point had no other votes for them. His votes were an empty gesture, as his arguements demonstrably failed to generate any support at the time he voted for them.
carrion pigeons then attempted to prove me wrong by voting for me, hoping to goad me into doing something rash, like retaliating by voting for him. For some inexplicable reason Axelrod decided to hop on for the ride as well. 3 votes at this point in the game hardly constitute any real pressure, and responding by voting for carrion pigeons wouldn't have accomplished anything, as I mentioned before.
carrion pigeons then later states that his votes for me were an attempt to get a response out of me, adding that I had 'reacted badly'. I wonder what he would have considered a 'good response'? Certainly not a countervote from me or turning defensive a la Xyre.
I mentioned earlier that I don't believe that carrion pigeons is scum; I still don't, but I do believe that he is being a poor player, and I will continue to treat him as such until I see evidence to the contrary.
Now we have Grakthis barging in with this statement that 'carrion pigeons was right'. I can only assume that the reference was to this:
Quote from carrion pigeons »
I disagree, Hvir. I think that it's important to throw votes around. It gets reactions a lot more reliably, and more honestly, sometimes, too.
While I would agree that throwing votes around gets reactions, I doubt it's of the positive variety. If every other post a player makes consists of unvoting then voting for whoever happens to be the flavour of the minute, the other players are going to begin dismissing that player's posts as unnecessary background noise, and rightfully so. Vote when it matters; not just because you can.
Speaking of voting, since it's been proven that I can vote, I'll be unvoting loran16, since it was, like I said, a meaningless vote.
CP was indeed being aggressive, but I don't think going after the multivoter is the path to take at this point. We can always ask him to demonstrate his ability again at some time in the future to confirm his role.
I would be interested in Alx's case on ZDS as well.
The other two people whom I am also keeping notes on are loran and Vampyr.
I am feeling extreme reluctance however in removing my vote from Suth as of yet seeing as he hasn't check in since then.
Also, I want to make an observation here. DYH can't vote by himself and has to proxy his vote to others? Is it possible for the person who has his vote to test it out?
To respond to what Xyre said about me earlier, I have no "reasons" to vote for ZDS, I just think he is scummy. Reading his posts since I said that, I still think so. It seems like everyone else is just hopping from bandwagon to bandwagon right now. As for CP, his behavior could be explainable, but I won't say anything right now. I'll keep my vote on ZDS, but I'd also be willing to vote for Xyre, though.
(And now Dagger mentions me... awww... he remembered me.)
Abbeygargoyle's curiosity gets the better of him. Outside the mall, far, far below, are a pair of curiously red and shiny sneakers. He slips downstairs.
In his wake, follows Hawkeye7.
After the long, long walk to reach the first floor, they discover that the grand entrance to the mall has been barricaded with merchandise from the mall, and overturned cars, from the parking garage. Everything is still. This far down, the light barely penetrates.
Somewhere in the food court, they hear a series of crashes, as if someone is overturning tables. The noise is coming closer.
The two look at one another, and decide to return to the upper levels.
Speaking of votes on me, has anyone seen Athos? Modprod perhaps az?
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
followed immediately on the heels of arimnaes' post about Vampyr's lack of backing up his thoughts with a vote.
Hence,
Quote from DYH »
Vampyr seems a bit tentative and changed his tune quickly upon being called out for it by arimnaes. ZDS hopped onto that train of thought thereafter, and I'm getting the same vibes from him I got in Blood Moon, which isn't good.
@Vamp: Meh, it's no coincidence a vote came from you after being called out twice, regardless of what loran might have said, which wasn't much different than what he said the first time.
I am now looking for Dwight's corpse and I don't remember ever hearing of anyone named Dwight in any of the movies. A quick search through most of the Matrix wiki gives me nothing about Dwight either.
I am now looking for Dwight's corpse and I don't remember ever hearing of anyone named Dwight in any of the movies. A quick search through most of the Matrix wiki gives me nothing about Dwight either.
Anyone got any bright ideas on this one???
Read Sin-City mafia
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Dwight McCarthy was Azrael's mod-persona in Sin City Mafia. IIRC, he's also listed as dead in the first post of this game.
Ultimately, I think he's just joking with you to say that he can't be voted in this game.
Gaaah, and I was in the process of reading Sin City to get an idea on Az's specialty games.
@Spoon: At the time I voted loran, yes I was agreeing with the reasons for previous votes loran. It's hard to manufacture more reasons out of thin air to add to things. It's already been stated that my posts have been wishy-washy. How about you trying to do something more than just sling mud?
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How about you try to do something other than bandwagon? You've joined two major wagons today after they've started rolling, and you left the first one after it's peak in order to join the second. Neither time did you really add anything to the wagon.
I'm pointing out scummy behavior. If that's mudslinging then so be it.
unvote arimnaes. If the "Mr." thing is a posting restriction because he's Smith, then I can't see that arimnaes is scum. If he's Smith and doing it on his own, I can't see scum making that play.
vote Xyre. Multi-voting is a pretty "townie" ability to have. Voting for someone with a confirmed multi-voting ability on Day 1 is scummy as all get out.
If he's Smith and doing it on his own, I can't see scum making that play.
ARRRR MATEY, i can indeed see him doing that play.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
ARRRR MATEY, i can indeed see him doing that play.
Bogus correlation. A pirate in Court Mafia (a world of Bat's imagination without publicly known flavor) is significantly different than an Agent in the Matrix world.
Bogus correlation. A pirate in Court Mafia (a world of Bat's imagination without publicly known flavor) is significantly different than an Agent in the Matrix world.
Sorry, wasnt trying to suggest Arim as scum. Just couldn't help bringing up the pirate reference.
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Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
How about you try to do something other than bandwagon? You've joined two major wagons today after they've started rolling, and you left the first one after it's peak in order to join the second. Neither time did you really add anything to the wagon.
I'm pointing out scummy behavior. If that's mudslinging then so be it.
So a person cannot vote for someone who currently has enough votes on them to be considered wagoned? And each time a person votes, it should be for new and unique reasons? Exactly how do you expect a lynch to occur with requirements like that?
I expressed my reasons as to how Xyre was stretching. And I left because Xyre seemed to compose himself some and was defending himself reasonably at that point. Thus I moved on.
As for my vote on loran, yes, I admit I added nothing new when I voted for him. Other people who focused on loran sooner already pointed out such reasons and there was nothing more for me to add. I agreed with those points so I voted.
This is my last post for today until I get home from work around midnight EST.
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Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
@Loran: I don't see what else you COULD have been trying to suggest other than Arim as scum based upon roleplaying, especially since your statement was in direct opposition of someone saying they couldn't see him as scum based upon roleplaying. Backpedal much?
The gist of what I said was that Xyre's votes for Cyan, then for Vampyr, weren't accomplishing much, since it takes 13 votes to lynch anyone at this stage, and both Cyan and Vampyr at that point had no other votes for them. His votes were an empty gesture, as his arguements demonstrably failed to generate any support at the time he voted for them.
carrion pigeons then attempted to prove me wrong by voting for me, hoping to goad me into doing something rash, like retaliating by voting for him. For some inexplicable reason Axelrod decided to hop on for the ride as well. 3 votes at this point in the game hardly constitute any real pressure, and responding by voting for carrion pigeons wouldn't have accomplished anything, as I mentioned before.
carrion pigeons then later states that his votes for me were an attempt to get a response out of me, adding that I had 'reacted badly'. I wonder what he would have considered a 'good response'? Certainly not a countervote from me or turning defensive a la Xyre.
I mentioned earlier that I don't believe that carrion pigeons is scum; I still don't, but I do believe that he is being a poor player, and I will continue to treat him as such until I see evidence to the contrary.
Now we have Grakthis barging in with this statement that 'carrion pigeons was right'. I can only assume that the reference was to this:
I am going to go ahead and highlight the parts of your quote where you feel the need to use suggestive language to prejudice what you say.
I appreciate colorful language, but what you're doing here is the worst kind of subversive language possible.
Now, if you want to make these statements, try backing them up by making them part of your argument instead of throwing them in as color.
For example, voting you for pressure is a perfectly acceptable action. And the way you dismissed the votes without responding to them reads like scum who is basically saying "ah ah, townies, I see your trap! and I'm not falling for it!"
Then, you shoot back by accusing me of barging into the discussion. Your use of the word barging here, is especially worth noting, because it cares a strong negative connotation to it. On the contrary, I am not barging into anything. Tell me, if you hit a line drive into left field and the outfielders catches it, is he "barging" into your basehit?
No? Maybe he was doing his job?
If I am barging into this discussion, maybe you would rather I didn't respond to things you say and do? Why is that? Do I make you unformtable?
What are you scared of?
Quote from irv »
While I would agree that throwing votes around gets reactions, I doubt it's of the positive variety. If every other post a player makes consists of unvoting then voting for whoever happens to be the flavour of the minute, the other players are going to begin dismissing that player's posts as unnecessary background noise, and rightfully so. Vote when it matters; not just because you can.
All reactions are positive to a townie. Only scum look for a distinction between positive and negative reactions because only scum are trying to portray anything other than their genuine feelings.
So, again, we see you using fun colorwords that don't mean much but clearly are intended to sway people.
For example, I especially love the quote "vote when it matters; not just because you can." Voting ALWAYS matters. By definition, a vote MATTERS. There is no such thing as a vote that doesn't matter. Even a vote placed on someone with no votes on them pushing towards a deadline when the leading vote getter is one away MATTERS because it says something about the person placing the vote.
So again, I ask, why are you being so dismissive of votes that clearly DO matter?
Quote from Irv »
Speaking of voting, since it's been proven that I can vote, I'll be unvoting loran16, since it was, like I said, a meaningless vote.
Why are you so scared of everything? Now you're scared of having your vote on record too.
Are you telling me that absolutly no one in the entire town is scummy? If you were told RIGHT THIS SECOND that someone had to die, there would be no one you would put above anyone else?
Quote from Azrael »
Prod to Athos has been delivered.
What about Porthos? <__<
Quote from Tyco »
Bogus correlation. A pirate in Court Mafia (a world of Bat's imagination without publicly known flavor) is significantly different than an Agent in the Matrix world.
I'm not 100% sure which side you're arguing, so i'll make a general flavor comment to the game at large: don't assume agent = evil here. Remember, we are post machine and human alliance. The agents would be here to help the people in the matrix adjust to the new world... to keep the peace and to serve as emmisaries for the machines. They would be out to stop the same malfunctioning code/entities/whatever that we are.
I think we should all keep a fully open mind about flavor in this game. The mod is free to essentially pull for anything he wants to and place it into the matrix. This could be anything from mythical creatures to historical figures and even characters from other source material. It's a world composed of DIGITAL creations which may or may not have real world counterparts. Nothing is out of bounds.
@Loran: I don't see what else you COULD have been trying to suggest other than Arim as scum based upon roleplaying, especially since your statement was in direct opposition of someone saying they couldn't see him as scum based upon roleplaying. Backpedal much?
Not really, though i can see how you and DYH took it that way. I just enjoy a good pirate reference (and arim's play in that game was hilarious to me). Nothing serious was meant by it.
Private Mod Note
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
EBWODP, Grak, can you make sure we understand your abbreviations....i didnt realize who irv was till i reread your post 2 times. H-guy works, or hilv or whatever, but if you're going to constantly change names for your own sake, make them understandable. If you're doing them to be annoying (such as you're loran-lauren thingy) then just stop.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
EBWODP, Grak, can you make sure we understand your abbreviations....i didnt realize who irv was till i reread your post 2 times. H-guy works, or hilv or whatever, but if you're going to constantly change names for your own sake, make them understandable. If you're doing them to be annoying (such as you're loran-lauren thingy) then just stop.
1) I don't change names constantly. I change them once, and then stick with them. So really, there's no danger of you being confused after that.
2) I don't do them to be annoying. I do them for comedy and for ease of typing and reference.
But I tell you what... if you want, we can make a "don't annoy other players" rule. And after implementing it, everyone who's posts use a different font or color other than black must immediatly stop. And in return, I'll start typing real names of players.
Sound fair to you?
Or, alternatly, we can both suck it up and deal with something that annoys us and causes a few seconds worth of extra work to cope with?
2) I don't do them to be annoying. I do them for comedy and for ease of typing and reference.
But I tell you what... if you want, we can make a "don't annoy other players" rule. And after implementing it, everyone who's posts use a different font or color other than black must immediatly stop. And in return, I'll start typing real names of players.
Ah so now you add comedy to your reasons...since typing lauren was clearly not shortening names. Im not really sure however why you have a problem with not doing something that annoys one particular player that serves no other purpose? Jeez man....can't you be nice?
(Sidenote, i know dyh as tycho, and for a while in his sig he had a note saying that "I'm also known as tycho." So i recognize that. )
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Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
@ Grakthis: Ugh. Or we can just vote you off the island. Especially after your "factual" post (253). Factual is in quotes because you use more loaded language than the guy you're quoting.
As far as loran goes, I'm pretty sure he was just trying to say that it's quite possible for scum to RP when they don't need to and use fake posting restrictions. At least that's what I got out of it.
As far as loran goes, I'm pretty sure he was just trying to say that it's quite possible for scum to RP when they don't need to and use fake posting restrictions. At least that's what I got out of it.
Errr no, but that's a good point too! Like i said, i was just cracking a pirate joke. I'm kind of really bored at work today.
Also, i unvoted cp.
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Mafia MVP Harry Potter Mafia!
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Quote from Seppel »
I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
Because he doesn't try to hold back and/or explain his reasons, like he knows he has nothing to fear. This is different from the CP from Blood Moon who, even when he was pseudo-cleared, still spent his time proving how well thought out his statements were.
To be fair, this is more a product of end-game vs. Day 1 than it is anything else. There is a lot more to take into account in the last few days than there is early on. I still think we need some pressure on you, though, despite the vote of confidence.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
23: starts “the usual” flavor speculation. 54: After Grakthis’ explanation, backpedals on the flavor discussion … or maybe not, as the very next response to Axelrod shows. 61: votes Xyre on the heels on RafK’s question. 131: two interesting quotes here:
Actually, the only thing I've suggested was a topic of discussion. It ended up being "why is flavor speculation bad so soon ?" rather than "what's the flavor of the game", which I'm perfectly fine with.
In other words: “I caused the town to discuss why the topic I suggested is bad, hence bringing up the topic was a protown action.”
I don't like at all how some players immediatly jumped by Xyre's side. There's quite a good chance some of them are scums trying to get townie points.
Saying something like this implies knowledge of Xyre being town. Not a good sign.
He also unvotes here.
140: clarifies the second quote of 131 (the remedy is probably worse than the disease), also argues with me because I gave Cyan a townie point. Does so in a annoyed sarcastic fashion. Now, to me, this is important. In SSC mafia, which I read attentively, ZDS was scum, and showed a great tendency to become annoyed and sarcastic whenever a couple of non-mafia players could agree on something. He shows the same tendency here*.
150: pushes Xyre further, but …
163: votes one of his attackers for “reaching” – eventhough Loran’s reason to vote Xyre is exactly the same as Cyan’s reason 2 posts above (in fact, Loran has a stronger reason, since between those 2 posts came another OMGUS vote by Xyre).
178: slightly contradictory explanations of wagons and counterwagons.
213: Pushes at loran, defends CP. The usual stuff.
All in all, there’s too much flipflopping, and his votes are too convenient. The similarity of his behavior to SSC mafia is striking.
Confirm vote ZDS
* Yes, I know, this logic requires Cyan to be non-mafia. I don’t actually know Cyan’s alignment, I’m making an educated guess here.
EBWODP: I forgot to cut-paste the title from the document I was typing up. The post above should've been titled: THE LONG-AWAITED CASE ON ZDS. That's all.
Ah so now you add comedy to your reasons...since typing lauren was clearly not shortening names. Im not really sure however why you have a problem with not doing something that annoys one particular player that serves no other purpose? Jeez man....can't you be nice?
(Sidenote, i know dyh as tycho, and for a while in his sig he had a note saying that "I'm also known as tycho." So i recognize that. )
Eh. I can try and keep them recognizeable. But again, I am annoyed by people who use colors and alternate fonts in their posts, but you don't see me asking them to stop. Everyone has their own style.
If Lauren really bugs you, I'll see if I can keep it to Loran. There is no way I am typing the 16.
You're lucky this isn't MT or not only would I refuse to stop calling you Lauren, I'd be making fun of you for suggesting it.
Quote from Sutherlands »
@ Grakthis: Ugh. Or we can just vote you off the island. Especially after your "factual" post (253). Factual is in quotes because you use more loaded language than the guy you're quoting.
First, yes... in fact, you can vote me off The Island! This *is* mafia afterall.
And second, I'm allowed to use loaded language, because I'm a townie. If I mislead you, it's because I have your best interests in mind. It's those dirty tricky scumses you have to watch out for. Trust nice master. Master wouldn't hurt smeagul.
And third, maybe you should let the person I am posting at respond before you throw in your 2 cents? Reactions tend to be more natural if he doesn't get a chance to see how other people feel about it first.
And second, I'm allowed to use loaded language, because I'm a townie. If I mislead you, it's because I have your best interests in mind. It's those dirty tricky scumses you have to watch out for. Trust nice master. Master wouldn't hurt smeagul.
Yes... that's good logic. "If you do this, then you're scum, but I can do it because I'm town."
I'm still having a hard time believing that 4 people are voting for CP. Of course, the fact that 2 of them are Xyre and Loran, easily the most suspicious people in this game so far, makes CP look pretty good. Ironically, the fact that they're voting for CP, IMO, only makes Loran and Xyre look that much worse. I'm having a hard time deciding which of them to keep my vote on, mostly because I think they're both very lynchworthy right now.
@ my vote on the multi-voter: Right now, I'm approaching it from the perspective that this early in the game, any lead is a good lead, and no matter how many votes he has, carrion pigeons is acting scummy. My philosophy on the matter is that if the town simply writes off people who act scummy but are "cleared" for having roles like multi-votes, the town is more likely to make costly mistakes later. This was what really killed the town in Blood Moon Mafia - believing that carrion pigeons was cleared despite little evidence (beyond a confirmation from a mod who was already rather suspicious to begin with :rolleyes:) to suggest so. I want to see what exactly is up with CP to justify his actions so far, and I believe that that justifies the vote.
What amuses me is that carrion pigeons jumps around with his votes, and yet I'm the scummy one for doing just that. Funny how things work, eh?
Anyway, I'm mildly interested in the fact that Sutherlands keeps posting vote counts despite never having done that in the past.
Quote from Cyan »
If anything, alot of the attacks against CP currently seem fairly terrible. Like Xyre accusing him of being inconsistent because he has access to 3 votes and only uses one at a time? That is called being intelligent, not being inconsistent. We all know he has 3 votes, there is no real reason for him to constantly throw them all around. All it would do is put a false sense of pressure on people and force claims before they would otherwise be necessary. Is there some reason that you want this to happen, Xyre?
Glad to see you and the straw men still have a healthy relationship.
My argument was that he rather bluntly threw the votes in our faces, as if he was trying to get out in the open, but now has reverted to using only one vote at a time, as if he's trying to remain low-key. There's no way that that makes sense. This is why I'm going to stand by my vote. For all his "confirmedness", carrion pigeons actions are definitely scummy.
In order: nobody, I just feel a bit vindicated; does it?; and I wasn't under the impression I was married, unless someone's been getting me drunk more than I thought.
Carrion pigeons is really starting to bother me with his desire to swing his votes around. The troubling part is that the town seems to be following his lead into bandwagons. Unvote Cyan, Vote carrion pigeons. While I know multivoters are usually town, Court Mafia and a nagging suspicion that carrion pigeons is really distracting the town makes this a necessary vote.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Interesting. I didn't expect uncooperative as the resulting attitude for my question.
For the record, I'm defining reckless the way I see it. Not the way you see it. I see throwing your votes around like mad as reckless. So how about letting me have my own opinion. Much appreciated.
So I should place my vote as soon as I mention my suspicions on someone? Am I not allowed to get some sort of response from the person I asked a question of before committing my vote?
As for my post being a test ballon, it was in regards to loran. The other points were just to express my feelings on the current situtations. As for loran, I asked a question to see what sort of response I'd get from him. I got a reaction to my question and as a result I will [B]Vote: loran16[/B].
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Vampyr seems a bit tentative and changed his tune quickly upon being called out for it by arimnaes. ZDS hopped onto that train of thought thereafter, and I'm getting the same vibes from him I got in Blood Moon, which isn't good.
Feeling better about Xyre and Hvir's reactions seem okay to me.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I'm sorry, so you mean you still haven't read my posts on the matter? Or you just don't feel like it? That's nice to know... Seriously, you repeat a question asked to me a page earlier about an earlier vote and expect me to spill out a whole post spelling it out for you?
That said, Unvote, FoS ZDS. Ummm, you're calling CP cleared already?
Being a multivoter, especially in a specialty game, does not clear anyone. And when said multivoter starts acting scummy by doing things like throwing around votes with little reasoning, a vote is perfectly reasonable. Im not quite sure why you're so willing to give the guy a free pass.
Your giving me really scummy vibes ZDS, and at this point I'm really interested in what alx has to say about you.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I fully disagree with Loran - until otherwise disproven, multi-voters - particularly with more than 2 votes - are generally town. If, down the road, CP cannot demonstrate his ability to continute to multi-vote, it should be considered fully suspicious. In fairness to loran's other point, though, this is (an Azrael) specialty, so the balance of power may be different. Some things are hard to overcome in weighting a setup, though. A scum with three votes- that'd be awfully tough.
So, until we can suitably "check" his voting ability or have a better idea of the scope of overall power, it should be assumed he's at least "more likely town than not". Tossing a wagon on CP today is ridiculous.
Proxy vote to Carrion Pigeons
Here, have four.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I want to see what DYH thinks about his voting trends, but for now, I think mafia logic requires a vote on him. I want to see what he says.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
His behavior makes you think he's town? A bunch of people would disagree on that. Unless you think we all need to play like a multivoting chamber. Most multivoters use their ability to show increased suspicion on one person, but instead he's spreading suspicion around....literally! Without much explanations too i might add. I'm quite curious how you find that...protown.
Also, that last paragraph makes no sense whatsoever. What people learned from court mafia, was that they shouldnt be so gullible and quick to immediately assume innocence from the ability. Multivoters arent necessarily townie, and with Az having created this game, after the blockbuster of sin city no less, we shouldnt assume anything about any role that isnt completely mod confirmed (and even then, az does tell us not to trust him.).
The fact that the multivoter (at least at the start) in court mafia was scum isnt the reason we're claiming cp is scum. It's just an example of why the "multivoters are town" logic is false.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
I really really really do not like this response from Dork to Alex2. Feels really unnecesarrily adversarial. Like, do I need to throw a ball up in the air ONE BILLION TIMES to know that it's normal for the ball to fall back down?
How many times does a behavior have to be repeated before you can logically predict it? I am pretty sure that sample size does not have to be 100% for the prediction to be reasonable.
I don't like this line of reasoning from Xyre. First of all, it's dismissive in a place where being dismissive seems counter-intuitive. Like, can't you see that your motiviations are easily questionable here?
It *is* scummy to probe for information early in a game. If someone breadcrumbs, it is often scummy to draw attention to that breadcrumb.
It's not *always*, but how can we know you rmotivation? For you to dismiss the isse by saying "there was nothing scummy about it" just seems really out of place.
That being said... I don't think you were backtracking, but I do think you got defensive. And as I said before, I am not sure if that means anything from you or not.
You have to realize, it doesn't matter if you "gain" anything from it. What matters is if your motivation was scum aligned. It doesn't matter if it was logical or well thought out. Otherwise, OMGUS would never be an accusation for catching scum. Actually, we'd never CATCH scum, because scum would always figure out if their actions are logically beneficial and never do the bad actions and the town would always lose.
See the flaw in your logic here?
Wait... axelrod talking down to people?
That is not normal Axelrod behavior. 0_0
Oh man... this is the scummiest post in the game so far.
Depending on what the game looks like when I get to the end, there's a good chance my vote is going on Cyan.
And if Cyan turns up scum, I'm coming back to visit Lauren. :wave:
Actually, I've been pretty happy with how he's posting. It reads as authentic to me. Is it making you nervous for some reason?
Wow.... could you possibly be any more unjustifiably dismissive of something?
He didn't "poorly veil" anything. He flat out told you that you're wrong. And he's right. You are wrong. Votes are like Candy, and I give them out to all the pretty girls.
I tend to trust your judgement regardless of alignment, so I am gonna take your word on this till I get my own read.
Also, what is with the voting for the mod thing? Is that a ML thing? Cause, I modkill people who vote for me when I'm a mod.
Ok, I am caught up now.
Vote: Cyan
I believe he had as many as 3 posts that bugged me in this batch.
Dear Cyan,
Please stop trying to kill me in my sleep. I do not take kindly to it. More over, DIAF.
Love,
Grak
Read Sin City mafia. Az was in fact a perfectly lynchable person (and was lynched) in sin city. Sadly, it didn do the town much good.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
In his wake, follows Hawkeye7.
After the long, long walk to reach the first floor, they discover that the grand entrance to the mall has been barricaded with merchandise from the mall, and overturned cars, from the parking garage. Everything is still. This far down, the light barely penetrates.
Somewhere in the food court, they hear a series of crashes, as if someone is overturning tables. The noise is coming closer.
The two look at one another, and decide to return to the upper levels.
Vote Count 1.2-
2 arimnaes-Ljustus, Spoon
4 Carrion Pigeons- Atlseal, Hawkeye7, Loran16, Xyre
1 Cyan-Grakthis
1 Hvirfilvindr- Axelrod,
5 Loran16- Athos, ZDS, Cyan, Hvirfilvindr, Vampyr
1 Spoon-Wizzpig
1 Sutherlands- Dagger
1 xyre- Rafaelk
2 Vampyr-Carrion Pigeons, Arimnaes,
2 zedorkslipeur- alx2 Sutherlands
1 Looking for Dwight’s Corpse-Abbeygargoyle
3 Not Voting- Fadeblue, DYH, Pod
13 to lynch.
I'm not suggesting a wagon on him today at all. He clearly has 3 votes at his disposal, which makes him a poor choice for a Day 1 wagon. I just felt that his stark difference in playstyle was worth making note of.
If anything, alot of the attacks against CP currently seem fairly terrible. Like Xyre accusing him of being inconsistent because he has access to 3 votes and only uses one at a time? That is called being intelligent, not being inconsistent. We all know he has 3 votes, there is no real reason for him to constantly throw them all around. All it would do is put a false sense of pressure on people and force claims before they would otherwise be necessary. Is there some reason that you want this to happen, Xyre?
Then we have people trying to throw dirt on him because 'multi-voters aren't always town'. While it's true that they're not, having a multi-vote should really be good enough to make someone a poor day 1 candidate, unless their content is just so scummy that it can't be ignored. But that is not the case here, I don't really see any flaws in CP's content. At this point, I'm fairly convinced that he is town, despite my misgivings about his suddenly hyper-aggressive playstyle.
Oh also, Unvote, Vote Xyre. I really can't justify that attack on CP from a town perspective.
@AG: It's true that Xyre is acting he has as town in previous games. He's also acting like he has as scum in previous games. Xyre just constantly reacts poorly to any kind of pressure being upon him. I think this should be considered a non-tell in this case.
I wasn't changing my tune. I got a response from loran and that's what I was waiting for before I decided to vote him or not.
No, I don't expect a whole post from you if you already answered it. Apparently I missed it. Jeez, that is a possibility. But I did expect at least a civil response rather then the way you've directed comments towards me.
I'm not sure what all the fuss over Grakthis was. I'm finding him quite humorous so far.
@Az: I don't think CP voted me three times. He unvoted three times and then voted me once.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
CP is not the only one that seems to be acting abnormal so far this game. There are a few people who are not playing the way I'm used to see them play.
Is this a result of role playing? Or maybe something from their role? I'm not sure, but it's something that I feel I should keep watching.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
@Az: what Vamp said.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
The gist of what I said was that Xyre's votes for Cyan, then for Vampyr, weren't accomplishing much, since it takes 13 votes to lynch anyone at this stage, and both Cyan and Vampyr at that point had no other votes for them. His votes were an empty gesture, as his arguements demonstrably failed to generate any support at the time he voted for them.
carrion pigeons then attempted to prove me wrong by voting for me, hoping to goad me into doing something rash, like retaliating by voting for him. For some inexplicable reason Axelrod decided to hop on for the ride as well. 3 votes at this point in the game hardly constitute any real pressure, and responding by voting for carrion pigeons wouldn't have accomplished anything, as I mentioned before.
carrion pigeons then later states that his votes for me were an attempt to get a response out of me, adding that I had 'reacted badly'. I wonder what he would have considered a 'good response'? Certainly not a countervote from me or turning defensive a la Xyre.
I mentioned earlier that I don't believe that carrion pigeons is scum; I still don't, but I do believe that he is being a poor player, and I will continue to treat him as such until I see evidence to the contrary.
Now we have Grakthis barging in with this statement that 'carrion pigeons was right'. I can only assume that the reference was to this:
While I would agree that throwing votes around gets reactions, I doubt it's of the positive variety. If every other post a player makes consists of unvoting then voting for whoever happens to be the flavour of the minute, the other players are going to begin dismissing that player's posts as unnecessary background noise, and rightfully so. Vote when it matters; not just because you can.
Speaking of voting, since it's been proven that I can vote, I'll be unvoting loran16, since it was, like I said, a meaningless vote.
I would be interested in Alx's case on ZDS as well.
The other two people whom I am also keeping notes on are loran and Vampyr.
I am feeling extreme reluctance however in removing my vote from Suth as of yet seeing as he hasn't check in since then.
Also, I want to make an observation here. DYH can't vote by himself and has to proxy his vote to others? Is it possible for the person who has his vote to test it out?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
(And now Dagger mentions me... awww... he remembered me.)
2 arimnaes-Ljustus, Spoon
4 Carrion Pigeons- Atlseal, Hawkeye7, Loran16, Xyre
1 Cyan-Grakthis
1 Hvirfilvindr- Axelrod
3 Loran16- Athos, ZDS, Vampyr
1 Spoon-Wizzpig
1 Sutherlands- Dagger
2 xyre- Rafaelk, Cyan
2 Vampyr-Carrion Pigeons, Arimnaes,
2 zedorkslipeur- alx2 Sutherlands
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Speaking of votes on me, has anyone seen Athos? Modprod perhaps az?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
followed immediately on the heels of arimnaes' post about Vampyr's lack of backing up his thoughts with a vote.
Hence,
@Vamp: Meh, it's no coincidence a vote came from you after being called out twice, regardless of what loran might have said, which wasn't much different than what he said the first time.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
I am now looking for Dwight's corpse and I don't remember ever hearing of anyone named Dwight in any of the movies. A quick search through most of the Matrix wiki gives me nothing about Dwight either.
Anyone got any bright ideas on this one???
Read Sin-City mafia
Dwight McCarthy was Azrael's mod-persona in Sin City Mafia. IIRC, he's also listed as dead in the first post of this game.
Ultimately, I think he's just joking with you to say that he can't be voted in this game.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
How could I ever forget you? <3
More later.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Gaaah, and I was in the process of reading Sin City to get an idea on Az's specialty games.
@Spoon: At the time I voted loran, yes I was agreeing with the reasons for previous votes loran. It's hard to manufacture more reasons out of thin air to add to things. It's already been stated that my posts have been wishy-washy. How about you trying to do something more than just sling mud?
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I'm pointing out scummy behavior. If that's mudslinging then so be it.
vote Xyre. Multi-voting is a pretty "townie" ability to have. Voting for someone with a confirmed multi-voting ability on Day 1 is scummy as all get out.
ARRRR MATEY, i can indeed see him doing that play.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Bogus correlation. A pirate in Court Mafia (a world of Bat's imagination without publicly known flavor) is significantly different than an Agent in the Matrix world.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Sorry, wasnt trying to suggest Arim as scum. Just couldn't help bringing up the pirate reference.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
So a person cannot vote for someone who currently has enough votes on them to be considered wagoned? And each time a person votes, it should be for new and unique reasons? Exactly how do you expect a lynch to occur with requirements like that?
I expressed my reasons as to how Xyre was stretching. And I left because Xyre seemed to compose himself some and was defending himself reasonably at that point. Thus I moved on.
As for my vote on loran, yes, I admit I added nothing new when I voted for him. Other people who focused on loran sooner already pointed out such reasons and there was nothing more for me to add. I agreed with those points so I voted.
This is my last post for today until I get home from work around midnight EST.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I am going to go ahead and highlight the parts of your quote where you feel the need to use suggestive language to prejudice what you say.
I appreciate colorful language, but what you're doing here is the worst kind of subversive language possible.
Now, if you want to make these statements, try backing them up by making them part of your argument instead of throwing them in as color.
For example, voting you for pressure is a perfectly acceptable action. And the way you dismissed the votes without responding to them reads like scum who is basically saying "ah ah, townies, I see your trap! and I'm not falling for it!"
Then, you shoot back by accusing me of barging into the discussion. Your use of the word barging here, is especially worth noting, because it cares a strong negative connotation to it. On the contrary, I am not barging into anything. Tell me, if you hit a line drive into left field and the outfielders catches it, is he "barging" into your basehit?
No? Maybe he was doing his job?
If I am barging into this discussion, maybe you would rather I didn't respond to things you say and do? Why is that? Do I make you unformtable?
What are you scared of?
All reactions are positive to a townie. Only scum look for a distinction between positive and negative reactions because only scum are trying to portray anything other than their genuine feelings.
So, again, we see you using fun colorwords that don't mean much but clearly are intended to sway people.
For example, I especially love the quote "vote when it matters; not just because you can." Voting ALWAYS matters. By definition, a vote MATTERS. There is no such thing as a vote that doesn't matter. Even a vote placed on someone with no votes on them pushing towards a deadline when the leading vote getter is one away MATTERS because it says something about the person placing the vote.
So again, I ask, why are you being so dismissive of votes that clearly DO matter?
Why are you so scared of everything? Now you're scared of having your vote on record too.
Are you telling me that absolutly no one in the entire town is scummy? If you were told RIGHT THIS SECOND that someone had to die, there would be no one you would put above anyone else?
What about Porthos? <__<
I'm not 100% sure which side you're arguing, so i'll make a general flavor comment to the game at large: don't assume agent = evil here. Remember, we are post machine and human alliance. The agents would be here to help the people in the matrix adjust to the new world... to keep the peace and to serve as emmisaries for the machines. They would be out to stop the same malfunctioning code/entities/whatever that we are.
I think we should all keep a fully open mind about flavor in this game. The mod is free to essentially pull for anything he wants to and place it into the matrix. This could be anything from mythical creatures to historical figures and even characters from other source material. It's a world composed of DIGITAL creations which may or may not have real world counterparts. Nothing is out of bounds.
Not really, though i can see how you and DYH took it that way. I just enjoy a good pirate reference (and arim's play in that game was hilarious to me). Nothing serious was meant by it.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
1) I don't change names constantly. I change them once, and then stick with them. So really, there's no danger of you being confused after that.
2) I don't do them to be annoying. I do them for comedy and for ease of typing and reference.
But I tell you what... if you want, we can make a "don't annoy other players" rule. And after implementing it, everyone who's posts use a different font or color other than black must immediatly stop. And in return, I'll start typing real names of players.
Sound fair to you?
Or, alternatly, we can both suck it up and deal with something that annoys us and causes a few seconds worth of extra work to cope with?
I tell you what, we can compromise on HIV if you'd prefer? But I am not gonna try to remember any name as convoluted as that one.
Ah so now you add comedy to your reasons...since typing lauren was clearly not shortening names. Im not really sure however why you have a problem with not doing something that annoys one particular player that serves no other purpose? Jeez man....can't you be nice?
(Sidenote, i know dyh as tycho, and for a while in his sig he had a note saying that "I'm also known as tycho." So i recognize that. )
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
As far as loran goes, I'm pretty sure he was just trying to say that it's quite possible for scum to RP when they don't need to and use fake posting restrictions. At least that's what I got out of it.
1 arimnaes-Spoon
4 Carrion Pigeons- Atlseal, Hawkeye7, Loran16, Xyre
1 Cyan-Grakthis
1 Hvirfilvindr- Axelrod
3 Loran16- Athos, ZDS, Vampyr
1 Spoon-Wizzpig
1 Sutherlands- Dagger
3 xyre- Rafaelk, Cyan, arim
2 Vampyr-Carrion Pigeons, Arimnaes,
2 zedorkslipeur- alx2, Sutherlands
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Errr no, but that's a good point too! Like i said, i was just cracking a pirate joke. I'm kind of really bored at work today.
Also, i unvoted cp.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
To be fair, this is more a product of end-game vs. Day 1 than it is anything else. There is a lot more to take into account in the last few days than there is early on. I still think we need some pressure on you, though, despite the vote of confidence.
Vote ZDS.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
54: After Grakthis’ explanation, backpedals on the flavor discussion … or maybe not, as the very next response to Axelrod shows.
61: votes Xyre on the heels on RafK’s question.
131: two interesting quotes here:
In other words: “I caused the town to discuss why the topic I suggested is bad, hence bringing up the topic was a protown action.”
Saying something like this implies knowledge of Xyre being town. Not a good sign.
He also unvotes here.
140: clarifies the second quote of 131 (the remedy is probably worse than the disease), also argues with me because I gave Cyan a townie point. Does so in a annoyed sarcastic fashion. Now, to me, this is important. In SSC mafia, which I read attentively, ZDS was scum, and showed a great tendency to become annoyed and sarcastic whenever a couple of non-mafia players could agree on something. He shows the same tendency here*.
150: pushes Xyre further, but …
163: votes one of his attackers for “reaching” – eventhough Loran’s reason to vote Xyre is exactly the same as Cyan’s reason 2 posts above (in fact, Loran has a stronger reason, since between those 2 posts came another OMGUS vote by Xyre).
178: slightly contradictory explanations of wagons and counterwagons.
213: Pushes at loran, defends CP. The usual stuff.
All in all, there’s too much flipflopping, and his votes are too convenient. The similarity of his behavior to SSC mafia is striking.
Confirm vote ZDS
* Yes, I know, this logic requires Cyan to be non-mafia. I don’t actually know Cyan’s alignment, I’m making an educated guess here.
Eh. I can try and keep them recognizeable. But again, I am annoyed by people who use colors and alternate fonts in their posts, but you don't see me asking them to stop. Everyone has their own style.
If Lauren really bugs you, I'll see if I can keep it to Loran. There is no way I am typing the 16.
You're lucky this isn't MT or not only would I refuse to stop calling you Lauren, I'd be making fun of you for suggesting it.
First, yes... in fact, you can vote me off The Island! This *is* mafia afterall.
And second, I'm allowed to use loaded language, because I'm a townie. If I mislead you, it's because I have your best interests in mind. It's those dirty tricky scumses you have to watch out for. Trust nice master. Master wouldn't hurt smeagul.
And third, maybe you should let the person I am posting at respond before you throw in your 2 cents? Reactions tend to be more natural if he doesn't get a chance to see how other people feel about it first.
1 arimnaes-Spoon
4 Carrion Pigeons- Atlseal, Hawkeye7, Loran16, Xyre
1 Cyan-Grakthis
1 Hvirfilvindr- Axelrod
3 Loran16- Athos, ZDS, Vampyr
1 Spoon-Wizzpig
1 Sutherlands- Dagger
3 xyre- Rafaelk, Cyan, arim
1 Vampyr-Arimnaes,
3 zedorkslipeur- alx2, Sutherlands, CP
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
What amuses me is that carrion pigeons jumps around with his votes, and yet I'm the scummy one for doing just that. Funny how things work, eh?
Anyway, I'm mildly interested in the fact that Sutherlands keeps posting vote counts despite never having done that in the past.
Glad to see you and the straw men still have a healthy relationship.
My argument was that he rather bluntly threw the votes in our faces, as if he was trying to get out in the open, but now has reverted to using only one vote at a time, as if he's trying to remain low-key. There's no way that that makes sense. This is why I'm going to stand by my vote. For all his "confirmedness", carrion pigeons actions are definitely scummy.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia