I assume that this has something to do with your last question... I further assume you want us to vote for you. If you don't, just say so and I'll remove mine.
@ Suth: Oh, right, that. I ignored that because I felt that it wouldn't serve any good to dredge up old controversy and I feel like I've already addressed many of the points.
As for LJustus' new ploy, I'm going to wait to see what happens. I think he's too suspicious at the moment for me to feel comfortable with his action.
@ Suth: Oh, right, that. I ignored that because I felt that it wouldn't serve any good to dredge up old controversy and I feel like I've already addressed many of the points.
As for LJustus' new ploy, I'm going to wait to see what happens. I think he's too suspicious at the moment for me to feel comfortable with his action.
When did you address those points? Why do you think LJustus is suspicious?
When did you address those points? Why do you think LJustus is suspicious?
Well, I've already been questioned on many of them. But some explanations:
1) Opinions on Cyan and atlseal: As you may have noticed, I don't have two votes. I'm suspicious of both of them, but one is more lynchable than the other. In this case, Cyan is that one, but before, atlseal was more suspicious. Just because my opinion on them has adapted as they post more doesn't make me scummy.
2) Post 664: First of all, I noticed you failed to touch my first para, which is the most solid part of that post. This makes your PBPA look a lot worse to me. The second part (which is the main speculative part) isn't as integral, and is more a consideration of his role claim (I notice that other people have questioned the use of the Cheshire Cat, and yet you aren't attacking them). Your point that I say it wasn't a scum kill is a total convolution of my argument; indeed, I never said in that post that a scum didn't do it and actually was arguing that a scum probably DID do it. Pay attention.
3) 631: Note that in 614, I said "can" not "should". While it might just be semantics, it still feels to me like you're twisting my words, which now feels like a consistent trend in your posts. In any event, loran's 625 convinced me that perhaps his role was less testable than I had originally thought.
Overall, your PBPA is full of straw men and convoluted arguments, and it is with that that I dismiss it.
I don't know. Is it wise to ask someone who has just claimed Spartacus if that's REALLY their rolename?
I'm Spartacus [/oblig]
I can think of a million ways that he could respond even with a restriction (including not responding to it at all). LJustus is a good enough player that I trust that he can handle it.
I was following the game with attention, and I would certainly have voted atlseal if not for Ljustus self-voting.
So for now, unvote, and vote Ljustus ; we'll see where it is going.
Xyre: You said you already addressed those points and I asked you where. Did you actually address them, or was that a lie? I asked you why you thought LJustus was suspicious. Do you? Or was that a lie? It's interesting to note that after I make a post accusing you of flip-flopping, you first tell me that you ignored the post, then you tell me you already addressed the post, then you ignore my question about it.
1) Opinions on Cyan and atlseal: As you may have noticed, I don't have two votes. I'm suspicious of both of them, but one is more lynchable than the other. In this case, Cyan is that one, but before, atlseal was more suspicious. Just because my opinion on them has adapted as they post more doesn't make me scummy.
Oh I understand that you think they're both scummy, but you haven't said why, just like you haven't said why LJustus is scummy just because he voted for himself. The reason I think you're scummy is that you actually go back and say that we SHOULDN'T lynch each of them at different times, and then turn right around and vote for them.
2) Post 664: First of all, I noticed you failed to touch my first para, which is the most solid part of that post.
THAT??? That is your defense and excuse? That's not worth touching with a ten-foot pole. There's absolutely nothing redeeming in it, and it makes you look worse for more speculation.
This makes your PBPA look a lot worse to me. The second part (which is the main speculative part) isn't as integral, and is more a consideration of his role claim (I notice that other people have questioned the use of the Cheshire Cat, and yet you aren't attacking them). Your point that I say it wasn't a scum kill is a total convolution of my argument; indeed, I never said in that post that a scum didn't do it and actually was arguing that a scum probably DID do it. Pay attention.
While I concede that you never said a scum didn't do it, you also never said a scum did it. This is a horribly scummy post and I'm not sure how you think you're defending it.
3) 631: Note that in 614, I said "can" not "should". While it might just be semantics, it still feels to me like you're twisting my words, which now feels like a consistent trend in your posts. In any event, loran's 625 convinced me that perhaps his role was less testable than I had originally thought.
Ah... I see, so you were suggesting we wait without actually suggesting it... then you turn right around and vote for him again without any reasoning.
Not to mention you claim that loran's post convinced you that the ability wasn't that testable, when YOU ALREADY SAID that "a fair amount of the time [. . .] the abilities don't work." Seems like you already knew it wasn't testable.
Overall, your PBPA is full of straw men and convoluted arguments, and it is with that that I dismiss it.
1) It's not a PBPA.
2) What stances did I say you took that you actually didn't?
3) You never even addressed my 3rd and largest point. How can you claim to dismiss it?
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6 LJustus- LJustus, Sutherlands, Abbey, Alx2, Cyan, J-Effe IV
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Level 1 Judge
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
Now that I am halfway to being lynched, let me explain. . .
I am Sati, townie sacrifice. My whole point in this game is to be lynched. When I am, the town will gain the ability to investigate any person they choose. The result of this investigation will become public knowledge.
I have another ability that would have kicked in if I were NK'd, but I believe I garnered enough suspicion that I never would have been NK'd. So, my choices were to sacrifice myself now and either confirm a townie or catch a scums or to survive another few days and do the same thing. I figure that the Day 1 lynch is so often wrong that this was the best play I could make.
Now that I am halfway to being lynched, let me explain. . .
I am Sati, townie sacrifice. My whole point in this game is to be lynched. When I am, the town will gain the ability to investigate any person they choose. The result of this investigation will become public knowledge.
I have another ability that would have kicked in if I were NK'd, but I believe I garnered enough suspicion that I never would have been NK'd. So, my choices were to sacrifice myself now and either confirm a townie or catch a scums or to survive another few days and do the same thing. I figure that the Day 1 lynch is so often wrong that this was the best play I could make.
Lynch me.
Woah. Now this is interesting....normally i find those who mention the "jester" role to be rather stupid, but in this game, I might believe anything.....
Hmmm, here's a question. LJ, is that 2nd ability (the nk one) phrased so that it only applies to night kills? If so i think we gotta choose now.....agh
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
This might be the same question as Loran's, but is your other ability significantly better than the being lynched one and / or would it kick in if you're vigged?
Now that I am halfway to being lynched, let me explain. . .
I am Sati, townie sacrifice. My whole point in this game is to be lynched. When I am, the town will gain the ability to investigate any person they choose. The result of this investigation will become public knowledge.
I have another ability that would have kicked in if I were NK'd, but I believe I garnered enough suspicion that I never would have been NK'd. So, my choices were to sacrifice myself now and either confirm a townie or catch a scums or to survive another few days and do the same thing. I figure that the Day 1 lynch is so often wrong that this was the best play I could make.
Lynch me.
Dude... if we lynch you, what stops the mafia from just killing the ta...
wait.. I guess if they do that. We still kinda win.
I don't like this plan. It bugs me.
I don't want to lynch a townie just to gain an investigation. Especailly since, right now, we can probably write you off as town.
I mean, nothing personal, but you're not clever enough to do this as scum.
@Ljustus: I don't know why it would mean anything that I was reading the thread.
Honestly, I'm not really sure that I believe you about this, I smell a gambit. It seems to me that, if these abilities are/were real, you would have just not said anything and let yourself be lynched. Telling us about it in advance makes me suspicious
The investigation will become more important as less and less people will be left standing. Confirming 1 person out of 23 isn't much, 1 out of 10 is better. Especially since you said you have another ability that kicks in if you're NKed, that's a win-win for us.
Dude... if we lynch you, what stops the mafia from just killing the ta...
wait.. I guess if they do that. We still kinda win.
I don't like this plan. It bugs me.
I don't want to lynch a townie just to gain an investigation. Especailly since, right now, we can probably write you off as town.
I mean, nothing personal, but you're not clever enough to do this as scum.
I don't know, he's always seemed plenty clever whenever I've been in games with him. If the mafia were able to talk to each other prior to the game it could easily have been a collective plan. If it is a mafia ploy there would have to be some other, unknown ability or result that they hope to achieve for this to pay the surviving members benefits. As it is it does not pay well to try this if he were mafia.
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The investigation will become more important as less and less people will be left standing. Confirming 1 person out of 23 isn't much, 1 out of 10 is better. Especially since you said you have another ability that kicks in if you're NKed, that's a win-win for us.
Uh....except for one thing....a. we don't know yet about the daykill question, and b. this assumes that late in the game we can afford to lose a townie. The way he claimed, his role becomes more and more effective, but also more and more dangerous for the town to use.
Incidentally Cyan, considering a wagon on you was the current affairs and there was no wagon on LJ at the time, this makes no sense with LJ as mafia or SK. I still wanna know the answer to mine and spoon's questions before i commit to this plan, but that last comment sounded like you're awfully upset at being investigated.
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
Cyan: While there are others with reservations about lynching LJustus, Grakthis and Alx2 were concerned with saving the ability for later, while you seem to be reluctant to follow this plan at all. This 'gambit' by LJustus only makes sense if he had already drawn some suspicion towards himself, which he hasn't.
If I didn't want to be investigated, why would I claim not to believe LJustus and leave my vote on him? That doesn't really make any sense. I would just unvote him and play the 'we should let you live and use this later' card, like Alx did.
I'm fine with being investigated, though I don't think it's going to come to that, because I don't think Ljustus is telling the truth in the first place. Aside from the suspect presentation of this, it doesn't really make sense that it all started with 'if you could investigate Grak or Cyan, who would it be'. Why those 2 names, when apparently the town will be able to choose whomever it wants? Like I said, something stinks here.
Aside from the suspect presentation of this, it doesn't really make sense that it all started with 'if you could investigate Grak or Cyan, who would it be'. Why those 2 names, when apparently the town will be able to choose whomever it wants? Like I said, something stinks here.
I figured LJustus' idea was a gambit on something. My initial guess, actually, was Jester, but this of course looks better. I still am uneasy about lynching him right now.
As for the rest:
Quote from Sutherlands »
Oh I understand that you think they're both scummy, but you haven't said why, just like you haven't said why LJustus is scummy just because he voted for himself. The reason I think you're scummy is that you actually go back and say that we SHOULDN'T lynch each of them at different times, and then turn right around and vote for them.
This is because, at different times, they've either had potential value to the town (atl) or have acted less scummy than they initially were (atl and Cyan, each to an extent). Both have just played rather suspiciously, and neither of them is making me feel better with their roles (atlseal with a role that is both overpowered and somewhat easy to fake, Cyan with breadcrumbing which smells to me like a scum ploy for townie points a la Star Trek).
THAT??? That is your defense and excuse? That's not worth touching with a ten-foot pole. There's absolutely nothing redeeming in it, and it makes you look worse for more speculation.
Where are you getting it's speculation? And where are you getting that that's my only defense and excuse? It's just an observation that you're avoiding addressing that argument.
While I concede that you never said a scum didn't do it, you also never said a scum did it. This is a horribly scummy post and I'm not sure how you think you're defending it.
(bolding mine)
Dude, are you actually reading what you type?
You're arguing that I'm scum because, while I didn't say that a scum didn't do it, I didn't explicitly say a scum did it. This is because I can't guarantee one way or another. However, my post suggested that it was most likely a scum. Stop indicting me for false scum tells.
Ah... I see, so you were suggesting we wait without actually suggesting it... then you turn right around and vote for him again without any reasoning.
Not to mention you claim that loran's post convinced you that the ability wasn't that testable, when YOU ALREADY SAID that "a fair amount of the time [. . .] the abilities don't work." Seems like you already knew it wasn't testable.
The amount of straw men you're bringing against me, Suth, is absolutely sickening. Maybe we could light them on fire. At least they'd be put to a better use that way.
My argument that "a fair amount of the time... the abilities don't work" is based on making setups. The Jack is extremely powerful, and like others said, it's very rare. In this case, I was referencing Random 2 where the "Jack" was actually a megalomaniac, whose abilities don't actually work. However, this still makes it testable, because tomorrow, if he sheepishly says that the abilities failed, then we know he's either a near-useless townie or a lying scum, and either way a detriment to the town. That's testable.
1) It's not a PBPA.
2) What stances did I say you took that you actually didn't?
3) You never even addressed my 3rd and largest point. How can you claim to dismiss it?
1) I use that term to summarize it. It's a PBPA in the sense that you're analyzing my posts, but not a PBPA in that it's not literally a post-by-post analysis.
2) See every reference to straw men above.
3) If your 3rd point means the 3rd post you criticized, see my first point above.
Honestly, Sutherlands, you're starting to bother me. First, you're clearly fabricating your posting restriction, which never rests well with me, and further, you're arguing such reckless, ridiculous points as to make me feel like you're stretching for a lynch. FOS Sutherlands.
Actually, now that I think about it, while LJustus may be a suspicious player right now, he's a likely target for the mafia, as killing him is probably worth more than killing any other random townie. I'm kind of interested in what his abilities are if he's nightkilled, though, so I'll stand by my vote on Cyan.
EBWODP: That doesn't even make sense, Xyre. If LJustus is not scum, then he is telling the truth here, which means that he has some kind of triggered ability if killed at night. This means that the mafia are less likely to kill him, not more likely to do so.
You're arguing that I'm scum because, while I didn't say that a scum didn't do it, I didn't explicitly say a scum did it. This is because I can't guarantee one way or another. However, my post suggested that it was most likely a scum. Stop indicting me for false scum tells.
1) I'm not arguing that you're scum based upon what you bolded. I was acknowledging that what I said in my previous post was wrong.
2) Your post didn't suggest anything.
The amount of straw men you're bringing against me, Suth, is absolutely sickening. Maybe we could light them on fire. At least they'd be put to a better use that way.
My argument that "a fair amount of the time... the abilities don't work" is based on making setups. The Jack is extremely powerful, and like others said, it's very rare. In this case, I was referencing Random 2 where the "Jack" was actually a megalomaniac, whose abilities don't actually work. However, this still makes it testable, because tomorrow, if he sheepishly says that the abilities failed, then we know he's either a near-useless townie or a lying scum, and either way a detriment to the town. That's testable.
Whether he is scum or townie is not testable if his "abilities" work, and whether he is scum or townie is not testable if his "abilities" don't work. You said that his abilities weren't that testable. Obviously you weren't referring to whether they "work" or not. No, you were referring to them determining if he is scum or not.
Your "suspicion" of me gave me a good laugh, though. Too bad I'm not actually bringing any strawmen against you.
@Cyan: You think it's a scum gambit to get us to lynch him? Um... right...
No, it's a gambit to keep himself out of the spotlight for an indefinite amount of time. Look at how people reacted immediately after hearing his claim. My guess is that this is exactly what he was banking on. But I'm not buying it, I suggest that we lynch him as lying scum.
Worst case scenario, if he actually is town, today is the best day to take such an action anyway, and we'll get a free investigation out of it.
Look at how people reacted? ONE person unvoted, and either 1 or 2 immediately voted. If it's a gambit to stay alive, it's a really bad one. The town plans on lynching him soon, I'm pretty sure. The more you talk the more I think you're scum.
As day one lynches go, if he is telling the truth, LJustus is far preferable to a randon lynch, or mislynched townie of any type I can think of. If we can't agree on a scummy player I think he should be our fall back lynch. If he gains another, equally good action as a result of being night killed then we are really not under any pressure to lynch him right away and can turn our attentions to continuing to hunt down the non-townies.
LJustus, to answer your question about who I would like to see investigated when and if we get the opportunity, I would say Fade, CP and Cyan are the three people I would like to see investigated at this point.
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I don't know, he's always seemed plenty clever whenever I've been in games with him. If the mafia were able to talk to each other prior to the game it could easily have been a collective plan. If it is a mafia ploy there would have to be some other, unknown ability or result that they hope to achieve for this to pay the surviving members benefits. As it is it does not pay well to try this if he were mafia.
I am by no means calling him dumb... but he's not a risk taker. He's not someone who is going to think up a devious plan and then take a MAJOR risk that someone in the town will go "WAIT! Don't lynch him!" before we lynch him.
Especially since he self-voted then LEFT! For all he knew, he was gonna come back and already be dead!
I think that you're wholy selling him short here. I've seen enough clever/devious actions on his part in the past that this is definetely a move I can see LJustus making.
And it is really not a risk at all. The natural inclination of the town is to avoid knowingly lynching anyone that is town, especially when he breadcrumbed that bit about having another ability if he's NKed. The fact that he voted himself doesn't mean anything except that he thought about this in advance, which is obvious anyway. If he hadn't voted himself, people would certainly cry foul over that, which doesn't help him as town or scum here. Him voting himself is not a point in his favor, nor is it a point against him.
Cyan, you have said you would adress the points in Grakthis' case against you. There has been a significant amount of activity generated in both posts and reactions to you and the case. Are you going to address those points or are you simply going to try to skate on doing so? You reluctance to follow through on your say that you would address them and posts since I unvoted you have made me seriously regret doing so.
Vote: Cyan
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Speaking of you unvoting me, you never gave a reason for voting me in the first place, nor a reason for unvoting me.
And I don't feel like answering Grakthis's biased PBPA right now, this LJustus matter seems much more interesting. Besides, why would I need to prove my innocence when LJustus dying, and me being investigated(if he is telling the truth), will prove it for me? When he dies and turns up scum, I'll address Grak's attack on me at that point.
This is NOT a gambit. I am telling the truth. I believe that the best course of action is to lynch me. I find it odd that some people find me too scummy to lynch. Not only is that freaking hilarious, but it may be a bit telling.
Upon further review, my other ability applies to NK's or any other killing ability that specificies me as the target. So, sorry to any daykillers we have. . . My ability will work on you too.
I will ask that the town allow me the opportunity to post one last post before I am hammered, so that I can clarify any misunderstandings or answer any outstading questions or anything like that. I may not be around until tomorrow though.
Okay...so if we don't lynch you today, we have that option in the future (when, as stated by somebody earlier, its more effective).
So in that case, I gotta look at Cyan's post history...
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I love Joboman, Poggy, Niv, and Vezok, because, while they may not be the best players, they still try to win. Having fun is the most important thing to a game, but I've learned that if you don't try to win, then you're ruining everyone else's fun.
I don't quite get this. We lynch you and then....what?
We suddenly take a vote on who we want a free investigation of?
Before the game goes to Night?
Does it have to be a majority vote? Or is it just "most votes wins?"
Is there some kind of time limit on this?
And we get the answer posted in the thread, before the game officially goes to Night?
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Speaking of you unvoting me, you never gave a reason for voting me in the first place, nor a reason for unvoting me.
And I don't feel like answering Grakthis's biased PBPA right now, this LJustus matter seems much more interesting. Besides, why would I need to prove my innocence when LJustus dying, and me being investigated(if he is telling the truth), will prove it for me? When he dies and turns up scum, I'll address Grak's attack on me at that point.
Blocking at every turn. Beautifully obstinant, don't you agree? You said you address them and now you have changed your story. Why? If you could explain you side of each of the points in Grakthis' PBPA and thus clear yourself why wouldn’t you? It is absolutely in the towns best interest for you to do so. By doing it and clearing yourself you would then free up the free investigation we would get to be used to either id a scum or confirm another townie. Do the math it is much better for the town to do this then to waste the investigation on you. Who is to say you are not the Godfather and would thus return a false town result from this sacrifice investigation. This could easily be the reason you are trying to make the choice of inveastigation yourself.
As for why I initially voted for you, it is all in the post that I made when I voted for you.
(zoom in for a close up. Just from the waist up, difuss the light. Good)
"You know. I believe the point he was making was that the PBPA was near entirely negative."
"I agree with Loran that Cyan is playing differently this game, just as he described. But Cyan explained this and to be honest he's right. Now that does not mean that he is not using this as a ploy and when I look at the majority of his posts without seeing them as Cyan posts I do see the many of them as suspicous. I think that the majority of Grakthis' PBPA has merit and as such I will UNVOTE: CP although IGMEOU Vote: Cyan"
Grakthis' PBPA is very extensive and contains many very sharp observations that I had noted myself in reveiwing my notes. Since it is already posted and in the public record, there is no need to reiterate what he had already said. This is also why I have asked you more then once to address his PBPA.
I will reitierate this, you posted that you would address that PBPA and have been asked several time to follow through on that promise.
You have ignored those calls up till now and now you are offering up a lame excuse for backing away from your promise.
If Ljustus’ second ability is on a par with his lynch investigation, then I think I would be in favor of lynching Cyan and taking the night ability if Ljustus is night killed. If he is not night killed then we can always lynch him later.
My vote will stay where it is.
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@atlseal: That logic is just a springboard for mislynches, IMO. You tempt me to want to vote for you.
@DYH: What does it matter?
@Xyre: If you think the arguments against you are meritless, how come you didn't address my post about you?
1 Alx2-Cyan
3 Atlseal-Abbeygargoyle, Alx2, Carrion Pigeons
5 Cyan-Grakthis, Vampyr, ZDS, Fadeblue, Xyre
1 Loran16- Athos
1 Spoon-Wizzpig(?)
1 Vampyr-Spoon
2 xyre- Pod, Sutherlands
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
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Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
I must have missed it. Which post was that?
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1 Loran16- Athos
1 Spoon-Wizzpig(?)
1 Vampyr-Spoon
2 xyre- Pod, Sutherlands
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Trust me on this.
vote LJustus
1 Alx2-Cyan
3 Atlseal-Abbeygargoyle, Alx2, Carrion Pigeons
5 Cyan-Grakthis, Vampyr, ZDS, Fadeblue, Xyre
2 LJustus-LJustus, Sutherlands
1 Loran16- Athos
1 Spoon-Wizzpig(?)
1 Vampyr-Spoon
2 xyre- Pod
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
unvote, vote:LJustus
I'm intrigued
1 Alx2-Cyan
1 Atlseal-Carrion Pigeons
5 Cyan-Grakthis, Vampyr, ZDS, Fadeblue, Xyre
4 LJustus- LJustus, Sutherlands, Abbey, Alx2
1 Loran16- Athos
1 Spoon-J-Effe IV
1 Vampyr- Spoon
1 xyre- Pod
8 Not Voting- Hvirfilvindr, Rafaelk, Loran16, Dagger, DYH, Axelrod, Atlseal, Hawkeye7
23 alive, 12 to lynch.
None of the recent changes to the replacement list, or the lynch threshold, were a result of player abilities.
As for LJustus' new ploy, I'm going to wait to see what happens. I think he's too suspicious at the moment for me to feel comfortable with his action.
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When did you address those points? Why do you think LJustus is suspicious?
1 Alx2-Cyan
1 Atlseal-Carrion Pigeons
5 Cyan-Grakthis, Vampyr, ZDS, Fadeblue, Xyre
4 LJustus- LJustus, Sutherlands, Abbey, Alx2
1 Loran16- Athos
1 Spoon-J-Effe IV
1 Vampyr- Spoon
1 xyre- Pod
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
I am betting that if LJ was able to explain or answer those kinds of questions, he would have done so when he self-voted.
Well, I've already been questioned on many of them. But some explanations:
1) Opinions on Cyan and atlseal: As you may have noticed, I don't have two votes. I'm suspicious of both of them, but one is more lynchable than the other. In this case, Cyan is that one, but before, atlseal was more suspicious. Just because my opinion on them has adapted as they post more doesn't make me scummy.
2) Post 664: First of all, I noticed you failed to touch my first para, which is the most solid part of that post. This makes your PBPA look a lot worse to me. The second part (which is the main speculative part) isn't as integral, and is more a consideration of his role claim (I notice that other people have questioned the use of the Cheshire Cat, and yet you aren't attacking them). Your point that I say it wasn't a scum kill is a total convolution of my argument; indeed, I never said in that post that a scum didn't do it and actually was arguing that a scum probably DID do it. Pay attention.
3) 631: Note that in 614, I said "can" not "should". While it might just be semantics, it still feels to me like you're twisting my words, which now feels like a consistent trend in your posts. In any event, loran's 625 convinced me that perhaps his role was less testable than I had originally thought.
Overall, your PBPA is full of straw men and convoluted arguments, and it is with that that I dismiss it.
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I don't think there is any reason not to ask, do you?
I don't know. Is it wise to ask someone who has just claimed Spartacus if that's REALLY their rolename?
I'm Spartacus [/oblig]
I can think of a million ways that he could respond even with a restriction (including not responding to it at all). LJustus is a good enough player that I trust that he can handle it.
I'm Wizzpig's replacement.
I was following the game with attention, and I would certainly have voted atlseal if not for Ljustus self-voting.
So for now, unvote, and vote Ljustus ; we'll see where it is going.
Oh I understand that you think they're both scummy, but you haven't said why, just like you haven't said why LJustus is scummy just because he voted for himself. The reason I think you're scummy is that you actually go back and say that we SHOULDN'T lynch each of them at different times, and then turn right around and vote for them.
THAT??? That is your defense and excuse? That's not worth touching with a ten-foot pole. There's absolutely nothing redeeming in it, and it makes you look worse for more speculation.
While I concede that you never said a scum didn't do it, you also never said a scum did it. This is a horribly scummy post and I'm not sure how you think you're defending it.
Ah... I see, so you were suggesting we wait without actually suggesting it... then you turn right around and vote for him again without any reasoning.
Not to mention you claim that loran's post convinced you that the ability wasn't that testable, when YOU ALREADY SAID that "a fair amount of the time [. . .] the abilities don't work." Seems like you already knew it wasn't testable.
1) It's not a PBPA.
2) What stances did I say you took that you actually didn't?
3) You never even addressed my 3rd and largest point. How can you claim to dismiss it?
1 Atlseal-Carrion Pigeons
5 Cyan-Grakthis, Vampyr, ZDS, Fadeblue, Xyre
6 LJustus- LJustus, Sutherlands, Abbey, Alx2, Cyan, J-Effe IV
1 Loran16- Athos
1 Spoon-J-Effe IV
1 Vampyr- Spoon
1 xyre- Pod
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
I am Sati, townie sacrifice. My whole point in this game is to be lynched. When I am, the town will gain the ability to investigate any person they choose. The result of this investigation will become public knowledge.
I have another ability that would have kicked in if I were NK'd, but I believe I garnered enough suspicion that I never would have been NK'd. So, my choices were to sacrifice myself now and either confirm a townie or catch a scums or to survive another few days and do the same thing. I figure that the Day 1 lynch is so often wrong that this was the best play I could make.
Lynch me.
Woah. Now this is interesting....normally i find those who mention the "jester" role to be rather stupid, but in this game, I might believe anything.....
Hmmm, here's a question. LJ, is that 2nd ability (the nk one) phrased so that it only applies to night kills? If so i think we gotta choose now.....agh
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Dude... if we lynch you, what stops the mafia from just killing the ta...
wait.. I guess if they do that. We still kinda win.
I don't like this plan. It bugs me.
I don't want to lynch a townie just to gain an investigation. Especailly since, right now, we can probably write you off as town.
I mean, nothing personal, but you're not clever enough to do this as scum.
Honestly, I'm not really sure that I believe you about this, I smell a gambit. It seems to me that, if these abilities are/were real, you would have just not said anything and let yourself be lynched. Telling us about it in advance makes me suspicious
The investigation will become more important as less and less people will be left standing. Confirming 1 person out of 23 isn't much, 1 out of 10 is better. Especially since you said you have another ability that kicks in if you're NKed, that's a win-win for us.
I don't know, he's always seemed plenty clever whenever I've been in games with him. If the mafia were able to talk to each other prior to the game it could easily have been a collective plan. If it is a mafia ploy there would have to be some other, unknown ability or result that they hope to achieve for this to pay the surviving members benefits. As it is it does not pay well to try this if he were mafia.
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Uh....except for one thing....a. we don't know yet about the daykill question, and b. this assumes that late in the game we can afford to lose a townie. The way he claimed, his role becomes more and more effective, but also more and more dangerous for the town to use.
Incidentally Cyan, considering a wagon on you was the current affairs and there was no wagon on LJ at the time, this makes no sense with LJ as mafia or SK. I still wanna know the answer to mine and spoon's questions before i commit to this plan, but that last comment sounded like you're awfully upset at being investigated.
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
Vote Cyan
I'm fine with being investigated, though I don't think it's going to come to that, because I don't think Ljustus is telling the truth in the first place. Aside from the suspect presentation of this, it doesn't really make sense that it all started with 'if you could investigate Grak or Cyan, who would it be'. Why those 2 names, when apparently the town will be able to choose whomever it wants? Like I said, something stinks here.
You mean this?
Not quite what you pandered it as. I'm ok with lynching Cyan first.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
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1 Atlseal-Carrion Pigeons
5 Cyan-Grakthis, Vampyr, Fadeblue, Xyre, Hvir
7 LJustus- LJustus, Sutherlands, Abbey, Cyan, J-Effe IV, atlseal, ZDS
1 Loran16- Athos
1 Spoon-J-Effe IV
1 Vampyr- Spoon
1 xyre- Pod
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
I figured LJustus' idea was a gambit on something. My initial guess, actually, was Jester, but this of course looks better. I still am uneasy about lynching him right now.
As for the rest:
This is because, at different times, they've either had potential value to the town (atl) or have acted less scummy than they initially were (atl and Cyan, each to an extent). Both have just played rather suspiciously, and neither of them is making me feel better with their roles (atlseal with a role that is both overpowered and somewhat easy to fake, Cyan with breadcrumbing which smells to me like a scum ploy for townie points a la Star Trek).
Where are you getting it's speculation? And where are you getting that that's my only defense and excuse? It's just an observation that you're avoiding addressing that argument.
(bolding mine)
Dude, are you actually reading what you type?
You're arguing that I'm scum because, while I didn't say that a scum didn't do it, I didn't explicitly say a scum did it. This is because I can't guarantee one way or another. However, my post suggested that it was most likely a scum. Stop indicting me for false scum tells.
The amount of straw men you're bringing against me, Suth, is absolutely sickening. Maybe we could light them on fire. At least they'd be put to a better use that way.
My argument that "a fair amount of the time... the abilities don't work" is based on making setups. The Jack is extremely powerful, and like others said, it's very rare. In this case, I was referencing Random 2 where the "Jack" was actually a megalomaniac, whose abilities don't actually work. However, this still makes it testable, because tomorrow, if he sheepishly says that the abilities failed, then we know he's either a near-useless townie or a lying scum, and either way a detriment to the town. That's testable.
1) I use that term to summarize it. It's a PBPA in the sense that you're analyzing my posts, but not a PBPA in that it's not literally a post-by-post analysis.
2) See every reference to straw men above.
3) If your 3rd point means the 3rd post you criticized, see my first point above.
Honestly, Sutherlands, you're starting to bother me. First, you're clearly fabricating your posting restriction, which never rests well with me, and further, you're arguing such reckless, ridiculous points as to make me feel like you're stretching for a lynch. FOS Sutherlands.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Fine, I mis-remembered his post. I still think it's a scum gambit.
1) I'm not arguing that you're scum based upon what you bolded. I was acknowledging that what I said in my previous post was wrong.
2) Your post didn't suggest anything.
Do you actually know what a strawman argument is?
Whether he is scum or townie is not testable if his "abilities" work, and whether he is scum or townie is not testable if his "abilities" don't work. You said that his abilities weren't that testable. Obviously you weren't referring to whether they "work" or not. No, you were referring to them determining if he is scum or not.
Your "suspicion" of me gave me a good laugh, though. Too bad I'm not actually bringing any strawmen against you.
@Cyan: You think it's a scum gambit to get us to lynch him? Um... right...
1 Atlseal-Carrion Pigeons
5 Cyan-Grakthis, Vampyr, Fadeblue, Xyre, Hvir
7 LJustus- LJustus, Sutherlands, Abbey, Cyan, J-Effe IV, atlseal, ZDS
1 Loran16- Athos
1 Spoon-J-Effe IV
1 Vampyr- Spoon
1 xyre- Pod
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
No, it's a gambit to keep himself out of the spotlight for an indefinite amount of time. Look at how people reacted immediately after hearing his claim. My guess is that this is exactly what he was banking on. But I'm not buying it, I suggest that we lynch him as lying scum.
Worst case scenario, if he actually is town, today is the best day to take such an action anyway, and we'll get a free investigation out of it.
1 Atlseal-Carrion Pigeons
5 Cyan-Grakthis, Vampyr, Fadeblue, Xyre, Hvir
7 LJustus- LJustus, Sutherlands, Abbey, Cyan, J-Effe IV, atlseal, ZDS
1 Loran16- Athos
1 Spoon-J-Effe IV
1 Vampyr- Spoon
1 xyre- Pod
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
LJustus, to answer your question about who I would like to see investigated when and if we get the opportunity, I would say Fade, CP and Cyan are the three people I would like to see investigated at this point.
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I am by no means calling him dumb... but he's not a risk taker. He's not someone who is going to think up a devious plan and then take a MAJOR risk that someone in the town will go "WAIT! Don't lynch him!" before we lynch him.
Especially since he self-voted then LEFT! For all he knew, he was gonna come back and already be dead!
No... doesn't fit.
And it is really not a risk at all. The natural inclination of the town is to avoid knowingly lynching anyone that is town, especially when he breadcrumbed that bit about having another ability if he's NKed. The fact that he voted himself doesn't mean anything except that he thought about this in advance, which is obvious anyway. If he hadn't voted himself, people would certainly cry foul over that, which doesn't help him as town or scum here. Him voting himself is not a point in his favor, nor is it a point against him.
Vote: Cyan
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And I don't feel like answering Grakthis's biased PBPA right now, this LJustus matter seems much more interesting. Besides, why would I need to prove my innocence when LJustus dying, and me being investigated(if he is telling the truth), will prove it for me? When he dies and turns up scum, I'll address Grak's attack on me at that point.
Upon further review, my other ability applies to NK's or any other killing ability that specificies me as the target. So, sorry to any daykillers we have. . . My ability will work on you too.
I will ask that the town allow me the opportunity to post one last post before I am hammered, so that I can clarify any misunderstandings or answer any outstading questions or anything like that. I may not be around until tomorrow though.
So in that case, I gotta look at Cyan's post history...
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
We suddenly take a vote on who we want a free investigation of?
Before the game goes to Night?
Does it have to be a majority vote? Or is it just "most votes wins?"
Is there some kind of time limit on this?
And we get the answer posted in the thread, before the game officially goes to Night?
Blocking at every turn. Beautifully obstinant, don't you agree? You said you address them and now you have changed your story. Why? If you could explain you side of each of the points in Grakthis' PBPA and thus clear yourself why wouldn’t you? It is absolutely in the towns best interest for you to do so. By doing it and clearing yourself you would then free up the free investigation we would get to be used to either id a scum or confirm another townie. Do the math it is much better for the town to do this then to waste the investigation on you. Who is to say you are not the Godfather and would thus return a false town result from this sacrifice investigation. This could easily be the reason you are trying to make the choice of inveastigation yourself.
As for why I initially voted for you, it is all in the post that I made when I voted for you.
Grakthis' PBPA is very extensive and contains many very sharp observations that I had noted myself in reveiwing my notes. Since it is already posted and in the public record, there is no need to reiterate what he had already said. This is also why I have asked you more then once to address his PBPA.
I will reitierate this, you posted that you would address that PBPA and have been asked several time to follow through on that promise.
You have ignored those calls up till now and now you are offering up a lame excuse for backing away from your promise.
If Ljustus’ second ability is on a par with his lynch investigation, then I think I would be in favor of lynching Cyan and taking the night ability if Ljustus is night killed. If he is not night killed then we can always lynch him later.
My vote will stay where it is.
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