@Puzzle: No, I think it is more logical that it starts affecting players as soon as they were targeted. Especially since some of the actions that happen at night(such as Dagger's) clearly happen during the night. There is no reason that fade's ability isn't the same way.
I agree that it's not worth trying to pursue Grakthis right now. I believe that he is Dr. Merrick, I just still think he's a suspect, albeit at the bottom of the list.
Spoon is clearly scum of some variety. Maybe we'll get lucky and he's the Merovingian...though this would make no sense.
This post by Puzzle seems very reasonable and pro-town, enough so for me to remove him from my list of suspects for now.
I think Alx should just target Dagger tonight. Assuming that Spoon ever actually gets lynched.
@Alx: There's still no point in targeting any of them. We need to find the Merovingian, and it is surely not one of the people in limbo. Please, just target Dagger.
And I agree with what Axel said, as far as Grakthis, but not enough so to lynch him before coming to some kind of resolution regarding Spoon, Dagger, and RafK.
Puzzle..one last question, sorry. Are you any roles other than the Oracle, or are you exclusively The Oracle?
That's true. But what is the point of having a penalty if it isn't visibly enforced, and if the person can just continue to ignore it later?
RafK is counted as having voted, and if the penalty is 'you can't use any abilities today', then we'll never know anyway.
Honestly, I just can't believe that you would ever choose to take the penalty over RPing your real role, and then make such a crappy claim. I think RafK's RPing is sincere, even if his claim was some stupid anagram. My question is, WHY would he anagram.
Here's the thing Grak. You kind of deserve to get lynched for being such a pompus ass. The idea that you could sit there with a straight face and say "I was right about Hawkeye, I am the amazingest Mafia player evah!!!!" when you did absolutely nothing to prevent his demise, is so mind-bogglingly self-centered it's borderline delusional.
Right. That's totally what I said. Oh wait... no it's not. It's what you've decided to pretend I said.
Apparently, you didn't read this exchange between Cyan and I.
Now, hopefully, you will click those and re-read the exchange. I gave Cyan some advice intended to be helpful, and he shot back with insults and cheap shots and then a line at the end he said
"But I'll tell you what. If Hawkeye gets lynched and somehow, miraculously, shows up as town, I'll take your advice in the future. If he gets lynched and shows up as scum(which he almost assuredly will), I'd appreciate it if, in the future, you don't try to tell me what to do."
So calling me arrogant for doing a little face grating on someone who went high and mighty on me seems pretty silly.
Quote from Axelrod »
It's like, I don't mind losing. But heck if I'm going to lose to someone who is being so unpleasant. If we didn't lynch you and you were scum, I'd be extremely pissed. I'd rather make the mistake the other way and have you be pissed at being lynched when you were town for acting like a ****.
lolz. k, nub.
Quote from Axelrod »
Your assuption that there can only be 2 Mafia left is an extremely poor and dangerous one to make. In a 24 players game (not counting people in "Limbo") I would assume at least 5 to start. Putting aside Azrael's other game which had something like 8 scum or potential scum in a 23 player game.
Lots of assumptions I make are dangerous. For example, assuming you and Cyan are town is dangerous if I turn out to be wrong. But I'd bet that's an 80%+ chance I'm right... so i'll take those odds.
And you know, none of my dangerous assumptions has cost me a game yet. Like, hay, remember Power vs Power mafia? That one worked out pretty well for me. And that's just the most recent in a long line of "dangerous assumptions" that people like you have given me crap for.
I don't know how many times I have to be right before people start atleast giving my theories some credit. You don't have to blindly believe me, but you should atleast consider it.
Where's the link between your premise and your conclusion, exactly ?
Oh, that isn't saying "they used the same line so they must be scum together." It's simply saying "it's kinda fishy and when added to everything else, it's just enough that the masons aren't sitting comfortably with me anymore."
You two are pretty significantly down on my list, as you can see if you go back and look at it. It's more like "Hay, if the 2 masons are still alive in a few days... something isn't right."
Quote from Cyan »
Both masons are just going to have to adopt the Agent Smith avatar tomorrow and deal with it.
Good call. I had completely forgotten about that. That makes me feel a lot better. I mean, even if we need their votes, if they can time it right they can actually drop the avatars and place the votes just intime to go to night, right?
I mean, is it unreasonable for us to ask them to, hay, set an alarm for the middle of the night, drop the avatars and place the last 2 votes. No way another scum logs on and votes them in the 3 minutes between changing avys and putting on the lynching votes.
Unless the mod has some kind of trick with that avy?
Considering that Axel could grant a kill, and AG gained a kill when he got killed, and that I have 2 lives and can stop Axel from dying twice, I'm starting to think that there really might be 3 mafia left...the town seems to have a fair bit of ability to avoid death. I just think we need to tread carefully. If we lynch 2 more mafia and the SK and the game ends, then great. But we're getting close to lynch or lose, especially with the mason's drawback...we can't afford to be sloppy anymore.
@Grak: I imagine that they probably have to keep the Avatar for the day if they adopt it, or at least, the restrictions of it apply for the whole day. Otherwise, the concept is just stupidly abusable, as we can just force everyone to adopt it to prevent the SK from ever actually doing anything(and maybe the mafia as well, if the NK counts here), until we're ready to lynch someone, then have a select few go back to normal avatars and vote. I doubt such an abusable concept was created by Azrael.
That's what I forgot. I agree that RafK should provide us some more information about his role...tomorrow. He'll just use his RPing to be vague about it, otherwise. I do want him to claim soon though, otherwise he's just going to claim some role that we wouldn't want to lynch under normal circumstances and we'll be stuck.
Dagger: Haven't a clue. I just went to wiki and searched for flowers and the matrix, and that's the best I got.
I do not think Grak needs to be forced to roleplay. His claim is too bizarre, in my mind, to be fake. In all seriousness, I think Dagger is the best choice. This banter between Grak and Axel, the fact that, for all intents and purposes, Axel and Raf are claiming the same person (the One), and the way his ability works, I wouldn't be surprised if Axel is the SK.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
But seriously, us still being alive at this point is like the worst reason to throw dust on us. I've seen, and been in, games where the cop/doc/a mason pair got revealed pretty early but never got attacked by the scums, who still won in the end. Sometimes the scums believe they can somehow turn someone "not-so-clear-anymore" (kind of like you're trying to do), and it can actually work.
Grak is totally correct that the longer masons go on without knowing either alignment, the higher priority it becomes. It's really too bad that we didn't ever have a vig in the game, because it would have been really nice to get a confirmed townie of the pair of you.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
RafK is pretty clearly Neo...I don't see flower or cake sending there.
I don't think it's very likely that Alx is scum, and his ability makes sense as far as his claim. I guess he could also be sending flowers,
Also, atlseal did not reject the spoon, he took it. That whole scenario was what lead to atlseal being lynched.
Also, CP, I don't see how Axel could be the SK. Seriously. The SK clearly already fired today, and that whole event should have been enough to clear Axel. *Then*, on top of that, Axel also was able to teach Alx the ability to submit a kill. The idea that the SK could submit 2 actions per day, BOTH of them basically kills, is ridiculous.
That's what I understood. But seriously, us still being alive at this point is like the worst reason to throw dust on us. I've seen, and been in, games where the cop/doc/a mason pair got revealed pretty early but never got attacked by the scums, who still won in the end. Sometimes the scums believe they can somehow turn someone "not-so-clear-anymore" (kind of like you're trying to do), and it can actually work.
I hear you and I don't disagree. But I get squirmy when "confirmed" players live this long. Frankly, I have no idea why *I* am still alive. Unless I really did a good job by scaring the mafia and SK off with my "it's not bad if I die" comments. In which case, score. But man, they sure are gullible.
I seriously hope you're scum, Xyre, or that will enter my record book of horrible plays.
Guys, lynch RafK tomorrow : if town, he HAD to know that people had multiple night abilities. Him faking to discover it in #3705 is as close to LAL as you'll ever find.
I don't understand... why did he HAVE to know that people had multiple night abilities?
Axelrod : clearly not flower or cake sender.
Cyan: clearly not flower or cake sender.
Grak : clearly not flower or cake sender.
ZDS : mason : not flower or cake sender.
Vampyr : mason : not flower or cake sender.
Spoon : assumed SK ; double identity doesn't match cake or flower sender.
Puzzle : vanilla last night.
CP : confirmable by voting.
Xyre, Alx2 and Dagger : other night ability.
Who apart from HE7 could be flower or cake sender in RafK's eyes ?
I don't remember him doubting CP or the masons, do you ?
Or possibly he just didn't sit down and do the math on it? I hadn't.
Or maybe the flower sender is on the replacement list or limbo list?
This is like your accusation at me involving the kid. You latch onto a pretty weak theory and then become convinced it's fact when it's not even probable.
So we waited forever to lynch Spoon so that CP could lynch him..only for Xyre to come along and do it instead? That was useless.
Anyway, I agree with Puzzle about the night actions, I thought it was becoming increasingly obvious that some people have multiple abilities. Especially since Grakthis has been claiming 2 abilities since like Day 2. Just another point against Dagger, really.
I'm still having trouble working out the Oracle role, but hopefully tomorrow will shed more light on this.
It'll certainly be interesting to see today's lynch scene.
I'm frankly sick of all of this roundabout discussion on it. I believe we'll attain a good deal of information from Spoon's death, and if all you people would have just stopped bantering about minutia, this game wouldn't be at the 3500-post point, which is absurd. I was waiting for a bit more support to throw my vote on the pile, plus I had a few points to make; those being done, I voted.
Look, the fact remains that Sarah whatsername isn't really a character in the sense that she appears in more than a throwaway bit in TMO, so Rafk is roleplaying the closest thing: a very clear Keanu Reeves role, which applies back to Neo (because anyone who's seen the movies knows that Neo is frightfully emotionless).
Anyway, it should be clear that Spoon isn't Morpheus (considering he's supposed to be dead in the TMO canon), so there's no reason to continue bantering. I've already said my piece on Alx using his ability on Dagger tonight, and so we should be well-positioned going into tomorrow. I also think that Puzzle should bring Charm Master back, for the following reason.
I think the Oracle role's function is rather clear: there are players on the replacement list with alignments and perhaps abilities. Charm Master has shown this to be likely true. I don't know exactly how that would all interact without seeing the role(s) themselves, but I have a hunch that if we bring CM back and lynch him/vig him, we'll probably get a good idea how the Oracle's shell-function works, and likely catch a sleeper scum. If someone has a kill available, I'd do that.
And I think that, based on the town's reactions, Axel has played superbly if he's SK. Seriously, the amount of attention given to him is inane, he didn't answer the discrepancy I pointed out between two of his posts (suggesting he was waiting to float out a false-claim), and we haven't seen a vig kill yet. I'm going to go back to Day 2 to try to puzzle that out.
Xyre, I saw the discrepency you were pointing to with Axelrod and that looking to me like normal axelrod being careful not to tip his role. Someone was claiming to be the terminator at the time. I can absolutly understand his reluctance to give a hint at his role.
RafK's claim stinks of Neo to me (Ted and Sarah Edmonton which is an anagram from Thomas Anderson/Neo)
Dude, yes way! I even totally linked the article- Sarah is totally Neo's RSI bits put back together. She just doesn't remember being the excellent Neo.
I still think it's an anti-Smith role that never got a chance to activate, but only Azrael knows for sure. It's still possible I'm backing up someone (hopefully not the SK, but I wouldn't blame you dudes for lynching me if the SK dies and daykills continue).
As for Axelrod's question- that's really hard to answer due to the effect that Alx has bogusly laid on me, dude. The best I can do is that this Sarah babe has no lines in movies and would be unrecognizable to the masses. Azrael gave me choices that would stand out from the crowd. And the Duke of Ted is a way funny and excellent dude, so I righteously chose to speak like me. Him. You know.
Oh, and while we're still here... Puzz-dude, it was me who FIRST made the point about scum possibly being able to heinously kill and use another ability, back when CERTAIN DUDES were bogusly "clearing" people from being mafia just because they had other abilities.
So, I totally don't know what you're reaching for, dude.
The town, encircling Spoon with weapons drawn, unleashes a hail of fire. The bullets penetrate his trenchcoat and fly out the other side, the coat flapping loosely as though in the wind. After perhaps ten seconds, you cease fire.
Spoon is still standing, limply.
Xyre creeps towards him from behind, readies a fist, and buries it in his back. Spoon's clothes collapse like a balloon with all the air let out, and two vaporous emerald shapes flee from the discarded cloth.
The town unleashes a barrage of fire, but the bullets merely zip through the mist, passing through harmlessly. Whenever the firing begins to let up, they begin to reform into corporeal bodies.
The town is running low on bullets, so you begin to engage the ghosts hand to hand. Alx2 flees, calling behind for the town to continue.
Grakthis swings at one with the butt of a rifle, penetrating his stomach. He flows forward through Grakthis' body, recoalesces behind him, and mule kicks him towards the edge of the tower. He teeters, and loses his balance. Cyan races to the edge and grabs his hand, keeping him from falling.
The town continues to fight, but little damage is being done to the twin assailants. Little damage, until Alx2 reappears, a new weapon clutched in his hands.
He plugs the vacuum cleaner into the wall, flips the switch, and it roars to life.
"Eat it, *******."
He steps forward, firing all the while, the vacuum cleaner held before him. The twins attempt to flee, but the cleaner sucks them closer. Their mouths stretched wide in a soundless scream, they disappear inside. Alx2 stuffs a grenade inside the bag, and kicks it across the room. The town unleashes a final barrage into the cleaner, and an explosion lights the room.
Spoon, aka Ged and Wuffles II, aka the Twins, Mafia Henchmen, have been killed.
It is now night five. The deadline for night actions is Saturday, October 6th, 10:00 PM EST.
It simply makes no sense that, if RafK were actually Sarah Edmonton, he would be able to roleplay as Ted. I mean, why wouldn't he just have to roleplay as Neo, if that is whom 'Sarah Edmonton' actually is. I'm just not buying it. I fully expect Spoon to be revealed as mafia, not SK, and hopefully we will pursue Raf as the SK tomorrow.
I'm pretty surprised, and a little worried, honestly, that Alx is still alive. It makes me doubt his alignment somewhat. As someone that should play a key role in determining who is the Merovingian, one of the last(if not THE last) mafia, I really, really expected him to die tonight.
Also, it's metagaming somewhat, but Azrael was logged on plenty of times today, yet the game just started now. In what is a possible coincidence, Dagger forwarded some messages to me from other people in our group a short while ago. The conspiracy theorist in me really wonders if the day had not yet started because Dagger hadn't submitted certain scum actions yet. It's also worth noting that, as far as I can tell from the conversations, Charm Master also thinks Dagger is scum. I guess I could just be over-analyzing a bunch here, but there are only a couple of possibilities as to who could be the Merovingian, and IMO, Dagger is the leading suspect.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
1. Scum most likely have daytalk. I know this because I clicked on Spoon's profile a couple of times at daytime and saw him PMing. I didn't expect him to come out mafia (yesterday I thought he's the SK), so I didn't mention this before.
2. I wonder what Dagger's gonna say... and I wonder how he's gonna say it, if you get my drift.
3. Cyan's "worry that I'm alive" is completely illogical. Since there was no kill, there must've been protection on ... someone. And since, according to him, I'm the most important role here, why would he refuse to go the extra logical step and assume I was the one protected? (If someone else was killed instead of me, his logic would have some basis. Not so when no one was killed).
4. No flowers, no cake, no nothing.
5. I reread overnight, and some day 3 stuff casts CP in a bad light.
I have a lot of rereading to do, since I was gone almost all of yesterday, but for now, a couple things:
1) When I was recruited, there was no mention of code alteration.
2) I only have a theory about CP's multivote. I can't say it's likely to be true, but it fits with what has happened so far. There very well could be plenty of other explanations.
CP: I'm not sure why you need my "support." There are plenty of people who are asking you to once again prove your multivote.
How come when he was talking about "support" for using his multivote, no member of the town was able to understand what he means, but Spoon the mafia member got it?
I was a bit surprised that Spoon actually was the Twins. It doesn't refute my "town is the Matrix" theory, but it puts a dent in it. Then again, alignments in the Matrix canon are incessantly complicated.
I'm still rather confident that one of Rafk or Axel is scum, and I think it's the latter, all things considered.
@Alx: Pft, nice fishing there. Oh also, who did you target last night? The town was pretty clear about whom we wanted you to go after, let's see how closely you followed it.
Axel is not the SK. It's so ridiculous to think that he would even be able to target himself, let alone that by doing so it would trigger yesterday's chain of events. Besides, reading the flavor sequence from yesterday(of me protecting him), it's impossible that he could have been the SK targetting himself..but it's obvious, from the presentation, that SOMEONE targeted him, and I protected him. Beyond that, if he had targeted himself, he wouldn't have been protected by Grakthis' ability anyway. AND he was able to teach someone else to kill, which would mean that, as SK, he was able to submit 2 kills in one day? I mean honestly, this is so much reaching that it is absurd.
I think it's all but guaranteed that the SK is Raf, by process of elimination, if nothing else.
Interesting info that Alx put together there. I'm beginning to dislike CP's ability the more I think about it and I definately will not be helping out on the vote supply in the future.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
@Alx: Pft, nice fishing there. Oh also, who did you target last night? The town was pretty clear about whom we wanted you to go after, let's see how closely you followed it.
He already stated this.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Current Soul Collector count: 184
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
@Alx: Pft, nice fishing there. Oh also, who did you target last night? The town was pretty clear about whom we wanted you to go after, let's see how closely you followed it.
@Alx: Pft, nice fishing there. Oh also, who did you target last night? The town was pretty clear about whom we wanted you to go after, let's see how closely you followed it.
Axel is not the SK. It's so ridiculous to think that he would even be able to target himself, let alone that by doing so it would trigger yesterday's chain of events. Besides, reading the flavor sequence from yesterday(of me protecting him), it's impossible that he could have been the SK targetting himself..but it's obvious, from the presentation, that SOMEONE targeted him, and I protected him. Beyond that, if he had targeted himself, he wouldn't have been protected by Grakthis' ability anyway. AND he was able to teach someone else to kill, which would mean that, as SK, he was able to submit 2 kills in one day? I mean honestly, this is so much reaching that it is absurd.
I think it's all but guaranteed that the SK is Raf, by process of elimination, if nothing else.
You missed the part where I said that he kills by giving other people the opportunity, and he gave the opportunity to someone who would have a motivation to shoot a powerful townie. I mean, why else would the SK shoot him? It's been well-established that he has you protecting him, and because he's out, it would be pretty clear that someone else would be watching (in this case, Grakthis), so the SK had nothing to gain (except take out one of Axel's lives, which seems irrational because the timing doesn't make sense and the plan seems like a waste of resources).
If, instead, Axel is a donor-SK, he gave it to a mafioso, and that mafioso, figuring he had nothing better to do, shot him, hoping for a lucky break. Of course, then circumstances followed as they did.
As it stands, though, I kind of doubt that Rafk is a straight SK. The choices seem purely irrational (I mean, why arimnaes? Seriously, the only thing that guy did was refer to people as "Mr.", which a townie might interpret as a scum posting restriction, but an SK would have no real reason to test).
You're wondering how Axel submitted two kills? Simple - they're the same kill. And the more and more I think about it, I feel like something is up. Especially with you, Cyan - I feel like there's something not being said here. Did you say you were a townie? This last post makes me think your WC is that Axel survive.
At this point, I want to get some attention on this. Something's not adding up, and it's not the kills. Vote Axelrod
EBWODP: This would also explain why he has such absurd protection. Why would a vig (essentially) need several (basically) lives? This entire combination is irrational from a design perspective.
It doesn't make any sense for Axelrod to be an SK (or any kind of scum) if Cyan is town. Why would a townie be forced to bodyguard a scum? If at any time (which, by the way is not now, and most likely never), we'll want to kill one of the Cyan/Axelrod duo, it will be Cyan, since his chances of being scum are strictly better.
It doesn't make any sense for Axelrod to be an SK (or any kind of scum) if Cyan is town. Why would a townie be forced to bodyguard a scum? If at any time (which, by the way is not now, and most likely never), we'll want to kill one of the Cyan/Axelrod duo, it will be Cyan, since his chances of being scum are strictly better.
See where I postulated that Cyan's WC is not town, but that Axel survive. It would explain the pure defensiveness that his last post reeks of, as Cyan would have a vested interest in Axel's survival.
I'm beginning to dislike CP's ability the more I think about it and I definately will not be helping out on the vote supply in the future.
Honestly, that's fine by me. After today, the ability will put me far too close to speedlynch range for me to be comfortable with, and unlike the masons, I wouldn't be able to protect myself from it.
While I agree with Xyre that Axel is not remotely as cleared as Cyan insists that he is, I think we still have better targets in Dagger and RafK today. It is too soon to start second-guessing ourselves here, and Raf is objectively the most likely SK at this point, while Dagger is objectively the most likely scum.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
I answered that question before when you asked it. I have the town win condition, and that is it. Obviously Axel has to survive for me to win, because he can't die before I do. God.
And also, if Axel has to 'give someone the ability to submit kills' as part of his MO as the SK, please explain *every other day so far*, where this clearly did not happen. Unless Axel has just been secretly passing this abilty to someone, and hoping no one ever noticed. And nevermind that he *got targeted first*. Your theory there is one of the worst I've read in ages. If I'm 'defensive' on Axelrod's behalf, it's because everyone that keeps trying to say he could be the SK is utterly retarded, and completely ignoring the events that have transpired thus far in this game.
And also, Xyre, why are you now referring to Axelrod's role as a 'Vig'. There is no evidence of this whatsoever. I stated that my PM says I'm here to protect him while he teaches people to fight against the machines, and he claimed to be a TOWNIE MENTOR. I mean honestly, put it together here.
Also, trying to eliminate RafK as an SK candidate based on Arimnaes getting killed is sheer ****ing comedy. The major flaw in your theory there is the fact that the SK did, in fact, kill Arimnaes. We all watched it, remember?
Your utterly baseless and absurd attacks here make me think that YOU might be the SK, except that you have one confirmed ability.
But, just for the sake of humor, please explain how the two kills yesterday were 'the same kill'. What, did Azrael PM Axelrod later and tell him 'oh, you can't target yourself because Grakthis sent you away somewhere'(nevermind the sheer lack of logic involved in this statement), but feel free to pass on your kill to someone else this one time? I mean honestly, can you please stop and think about this for even two seconds?
Speaking of which, I died once last night. So no Alx, you weren't Doc protected. A mafia that is close to elimination coming after me makes no sense at all, especially not with some kind of investigator alive.
I answered that question before when you asked it. I have the town win condition, and that is it. Obviously Axel has to survive for me to win, because he can't die before I do. God.
Hmm.
And also, if Axel has to 'give someone the ability to submit kills' as part of his MO as the SK, please explain *every other day so far*, where this clearly did not happen. Unless Axel has just been secretly passing this abilty to someone, and hoping no one ever noticed. And nevermind that he *got targeted first*. Your theory there is one of the worst I've read in ages. If I'm 'defensive' on Axelrod's behalf, it's because everyone that keeps trying to say he could be the SK is utterly retarded, and completely ignoring the events that have transpired thus far in this game.
The fact that he "got targeted" is something I brought up a while back. What if we've misjudged the spoons, I was right all along, and Axel really is the "non-town" who requires two more votes? Wouldn't that make a modicum of sense?
And also, Xyre, why are you now referring to Axelrod's role as a 'Vig'. There is no evidence of this whatsoever. I stated that my PM says I'm here to protect him while he teaches people to fight against the machines, and he claimed to be a TOWNIE MENTOR. I mean honestly, put it together here.
As far as I can see, he teaches people how to kill other people. That's a rough estimate of a vig, from my perspective, if he's indeed town.
Also, trying to eliminate RafK as an SK candidate based on Arimnaes getting killed is sheer ****ing comedy. The major flaw in your theory there is the fact that the SK did, in fact, kill Arimnaes. We all watched it, remember?
Did we? Huh. I just thought I saw him get shot. Maybe we're watching different murders, huh?
Your utterly baseless and absurd attacks here make me think that YOU might be the SK, except that you have one confirmed ability.
Nice redirect.
But, just for the sake of humor, please explain how the two kills yesterday were 'the same kill'. What, did Azrael PM Axelrod later and tell him 'oh, you can't target yourself because Grakthis sent you away somewhere'(nevermind the sheer lack of logic involved in this statement), but feel free to pass on your kill to someone else this one time? I mean honestly, can you please stop and think about this for even two seconds?
Dammit, are you reading what I'm writing or just repeating the same drivel and expecting a new result?
For the sake of argumentation, here's a fake Axelrod-as-SK PM:
Axelrod, you are John Conner, SK. You hate everybody etc. etc.
1) Each day, you may force another player to kill a player of his or her choice.
etc. etc.
Besides, unless I'm looking at Grak's claim differently, there seem to be no inconsistencies present as a result of Grak acting.
Speaking of which, I died once last night. So no Alx, you weren't Doc protected. A mafia that is close to elimination coming after me makes no sense at all, especially not with some kind of investigator alive.
But, let's see what happens with Dagger.
This is interesting. It doesn't say anything about Axel's alignment (although it pretty much guarantees he's not mafia, which was already a pretty solid conclusion), but it's something to ponder in the grand scheme of things.
Also, just as a general comment, the reactionary nature of this post makes me more confident that I've judged you and Axel correctly.
Or Axelrod has a regular SK kill and the ability (once? I don't think it was said if this was multiple) to let someone else make a kill. An SK in a game this size getting a bodyguard and a bonus kill ability that isn't completely under his control is probably "fair" as far as it goes. SKs need both an "edge" and a way to not just get randomly gibbed by the mafia, and that answers it. And I would expect Cyan to have a "Axelrod must survive" win condition, which would be a fun twist.
I think Xyre's theory that Axelrod kills ONLY by giving other people kill abilities is totally bogus (sorry!), we've seen no sign before today that he's given anyone anything. Which is interesting, because you'd think he'd have done it in order to give us a bonus kill to use on Kraj or loran, but it took until day 5 to come out.
But then, I've been singing the "Azel/Cyan= neutral" song ever since they accidentally blew their cover that their motivation was "kill machines", not necessairly to kill scum. And ever since then, Cyan has been trying to get me killed
I'm still not sure that lynching them is our absolute best play at this stage, especially since the mafia apparently took a crack at Cyan last night (I believe Cyan on that; we have no claimed doctors, after all) and might well do the job for us. It will still take us two lynches to get to Axelrod, assuming Cyan can take a lynch for him as well as taking a nightkill for him.
Given that, I await Dagger's first speech of the day (as well as seeing if Alx can verify it or not) with much keenness.
alx: Pretty sure cp is town. His ability would suck too much on a mafia in endgame (because merely by voting him to get him lynched, you give the mafia extra votes) and besides, he was very active on getting atlseal lynched. Also, Puzzle was trying to keep suspicion on cp, and I'm absolutely convinced Puzzle is scum. It's a shame he isn't here to lynch, really.
Oh, and before someone asks, I (to paraphrase) felt myself become whole again as of a start-of-day PM, so yay. Now I'm not vanilla, I just have nothing to do
And in case anyone didn't decipher me yesterday, Azrael had me speak like Ted because no-one would recognise Sarah Edmonson (her being a character with no lines in any media so far), and speaking like Ted at least gets across Keanu Reaves/Neo. Because I was meant to actually be Sarah Edmonson, I was allowed to say I'm Sarah Edmonson even while roleplaying Ted (I checked that out before doing it, as I said, just in case).
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I agree that it's not worth trying to pursue Grakthis right now. I believe that he is Dr. Merrick, I just still think he's a suspect, albeit at the bottom of the list.
Spoon is clearly scum of some variety. Maybe we'll get lucky and he's the Merovingian...though this would make no sense.
This post by Puzzle seems very reasonable and pro-town, enough so for me to remove him from my list of suspects for now.
I think Alx should just target Dagger tonight. Assuming that Spoon ever actually gets lynched.
@Alx: There's still no point in targeting any of them. We need to find the Merovingian, and it is surely not one of the people in limbo. Please, just target Dagger.
And I agree with what Axel said, as far as Grakthis, but not enough so to lynch him before coming to some kind of resolution regarding Spoon, Dagger, and RafK.
Puzzle..one last question, sorry. Are you any roles other than the Oracle, or are you exclusively The Oracle?
RafK is counted as having voted, and if the penalty is 'you can't use any abilities today', then we'll never know anyway.
Honestly, I just can't believe that you would ever choose to take the penalty over RPing your real role, and then make such a crappy claim. I think RafK's RPing is sincere, even if his claim was some stupid anagram. My question is, WHY would he anagram.
Right. That's totally what I said. Oh wait... no it's not. It's what you've decided to pretend I said.
Apparently, you didn't read this exchange between Cyan and I.
Me: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=2239879&postcount=3145
Him: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=2239937&postcount=3147
Now, hopefully, you will click those and re-read the exchange. I gave Cyan some advice intended to be helpful, and he shot back with insults and cheap shots and then a line at the end he said
"But I'll tell you what. If Hawkeye gets lynched and somehow, miraculously, shows up as town, I'll take your advice in the future. If he gets lynched and shows up as scum(which he almost assuredly will), I'd appreciate it if, in the future, you don't try to tell me what to do."
So calling me arrogant for doing a little face grating on someone who went high and mighty on me seems pretty silly.
lolz. k, nub.
Lots of assumptions I make are dangerous. For example, assuming you and Cyan are town is dangerous if I turn out to be wrong. But I'd bet that's an 80%+ chance I'm right... so i'll take those odds.
And you know, none of my dangerous assumptions has cost me a game yet. Like, hay, remember Power vs Power mafia? That one worked out pretty well for me. And that's just the most recent in a long line of "dangerous assumptions" that people like you have given me crap for.
I don't know how many times I have to be right before people start atleast giving my theories some credit. You don't have to blindly believe me, but you should atleast consider it.
Oh, that isn't saying "they used the same line so they must be scum together." It's simply saying "it's kinda fishy and when added to everything else, it's just enough that the masons aren't sitting comfortably with me anymore."
You two are pretty significantly down on my list, as you can see if you go back and look at it. It's more like "Hay, if the 2 masons are still alive in a few days... something isn't right."
Good call. I had completely forgotten about that. That makes me feel a lot better. I mean, even if we need their votes, if they can time it right they can actually drop the avatars and place the votes just intime to go to night, right?
I mean, is it unreasonable for us to ask them to, hay, set an alarm for the middle of the night, drop the avatars and place the last 2 votes. No way another scum logs on and votes them in the 3 minutes between changing avys and putting on the lynching votes.
Unless the mod has some kind of trick with that avy?
@Grak: I imagine that they probably have to keep the Avatar for the day if they adopt it, or at least, the restrictions of it apply for the whole day. Otherwise, the concept is just stupidly abusable, as we can just force everyone to adopt it to prevent the SK from ever actually doing anything(and maybe the mafia as well, if the NK counts here), until we're ready to lynch someone, then have a select few go back to normal avatars and vote. I doubt such an abusable concept was created by Azrael.
That's what I forgot. I agree that RafK should provide us some more information about his role...tomorrow. He'll just use his RPing to be vague about it, otherwise. I do want him to claim soon though, otherwise he's just going to claim some role that we wouldn't want to lynch under normal circumstances and we'll be stuck.
I do not think Grak needs to be forced to roleplay. His claim is too bizarre, in my mind, to be fake. In all seriousness, I think Dagger is the best choice. This banter between Grak and Axel, the fact that, for all intents and purposes, Axel and Raf are claiming the same person (the One), and the way his ability works, I wouldn't be surprised if Axel is the SK.
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Besides, Axel has a proven ability to give another player a day-kill. Why would an SK have that?
Now, if someone would vote me, we could finally end this day. What is this, like the tenth request? How long does this have to go on?
Thinking about it, I think Dagger does make more sense than Axel as a target for Alx2. But
is atrocious logic. Axel demonstrating this ability does nothing to remotely clear him.
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"Not-so-clear-anymore?" Try "only-cleared-in-the-first-place-in-anticipation-that-the-alignment-of-one-of-them-will-eventually-be-known."
Grak is totally correct that the longer masons go on without knowing either alignment, the higher priority it becomes. It's really too bad that we didn't ever have a vig in the game, because it would have been really nice to get a confirmed townie of the pair of you.
K.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
I don't think it's very likely that Alx is scum, and his ability makes sense as far as his claim. I guess he could also be sending flowers,
Also, atlseal did not reject the spoon, he took it. That whole scenario was what lead to atlseal being lynched.
Also, CP, I don't see how Axel could be the SK. Seriously. The SK clearly already fired today, and that whole event should have been enough to clear Axel. *Then*, on top of that, Axel also was able to teach Alx the ability to submit a kill. The idea that the SK could submit 2 actions per day, BOTH of them basically kills, is ridiculous.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I hear you and I don't disagree. But I get squirmy when "confirmed" players live this long. Frankly, I have no idea why *I* am still alive. Unless I really did a good job by scaring the mafia and SK off with my "it's not bad if I die" comments. In which case, score. But man, they sure are gullible.
I don't understand... why did he HAVE to know that people had multiple night abilities?
Or possibly he just didn't sit down and do the math on it? I hadn't.
Or maybe the flower sender is on the replacement list or limbo list?
This is like your accusation at me involving the kid. You latch onto a pretty weak theory and then become convinced it's fact when it's not even probable.
Anyway, I agree with Puzzle about the night actions, I thought it was becoming increasingly obvious that some people have multiple abilities. Especially since Grakthis has been claiming 2 abilities since like Day 2. Just another point against Dagger, really.
I'm still having trouble working out the Oracle role, but hopefully tomorrow will shed more light on this.
It'll certainly be interesting to see today's lynch scene.
Look, the fact remains that Sarah whatsername isn't really a character in the sense that she appears in more than a throwaway bit in TMO, so Rafk is roleplaying the closest thing: a very clear Keanu Reeves role, which applies back to Neo (because anyone who's seen the movies knows that Neo is frightfully emotionless).
Anyway, it should be clear that Spoon isn't Morpheus (considering he's supposed to be dead in the TMO canon), so there's no reason to continue bantering. I've already said my piece on Alx using his ability on Dagger tonight, and so we should be well-positioned going into tomorrow. I also think that Puzzle should bring Charm Master back, for the following reason.
I think the Oracle role's function is rather clear: there are players on the replacement list with alignments and perhaps abilities. Charm Master has shown this to be likely true. I don't know exactly how that would all interact without seeing the role(s) themselves, but I have a hunch that if we bring CM back and lynch him/vig him, we'll probably get a good idea how the Oracle's shell-function works, and likely catch a sleeper scum. If someone has a kill available, I'd do that.
And I think that, based on the town's reactions, Axel has played superbly if he's SK. Seriously, the amount of attention given to him is inane, he didn't answer the discrepancy I pointed out between two of his posts (suggesting he was waiting to float out a false-claim), and we haven't seen a vig kill yet. I'm going to go back to Day 2 to try to puzzle that out.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Stand by.
Dude, yes way! I even totally linked the article- Sarah is totally Neo's RSI bits put back together. She just doesn't remember being the excellent Neo.
I still think it's an anti-Smith role that never got a chance to activate, but only Azrael knows for sure. It's still possible I'm backing up someone (hopefully not the SK, but I wouldn't blame you dudes for lynching me if the SK dies and daykills continue).
As for Axelrod's question- that's really hard to answer due to the effect that Alx has bogusly laid on me, dude. The best I can do is that this Sarah babe has no lines in movies and would be unrecognizable to the masses. Azrael gave me choices that would stand out from the crowd. And the Duke of Ted is a way funny and excellent dude, so I righteously chose to speak like me. Him. You know.
So, I totally don't know what you're reaching for, dude.
1 Carrion Pigeons-ZDS
7 Spoon-Grakthis, Cyan, Alx2, Rafk, CPx2, Xyre
1 Xyre-Spoon
4 Not Voting-Dagger, Axelrod, Puzzle, Vampyr
---
"We are not pleased. This is disappointing."
"Yes, it is."
The town, encircling Spoon with weapons drawn, unleashes a hail of fire. The bullets penetrate his trenchcoat and fly out the other side, the coat flapping loosely as though in the wind. After perhaps ten seconds, you cease fire.
Spoon is still standing, limply.
Xyre creeps towards him from behind, readies a fist, and buries it in his back. Spoon's clothes collapse like a balloon with all the air let out, and two vaporous emerald shapes flee from the discarded cloth.
The town unleashes a barrage of fire, but the bullets merely zip through the mist, passing through harmlessly. Whenever the firing begins to let up, they begin to reform into corporeal bodies.
The town is running low on bullets, so you begin to engage the ghosts hand to hand. Alx2 flees, calling behind for the town to continue.
Grakthis swings at one with the butt of a rifle, penetrating his stomach. He flows forward through Grakthis' body, recoalesces behind him, and mule kicks him towards the edge of the tower. He teeters, and loses his balance. Cyan races to the edge and grabs his hand, keeping him from falling.
The town continues to fight, but little damage is being done to the twin assailants. Little damage, until Alx2 reappears, a new weapon clutched in his hands.
He plugs the vacuum cleaner into the wall, flips the switch, and it roars to life.
"Eat it, *******."
He steps forward, firing all the while, the vacuum cleaner held before him. The twins attempt to flee, but the cleaner sucks them closer. Their mouths stretched wide in a soundless scream, they disappear inside. Alx2 stuffs a grenade inside the bag, and kicks it across the room. The town unleashes a final barrage into the cleaner, and an explosion lights the room.
Spoon, aka Ged and Wuffles II, aka the Twins, Mafia Henchmen, have been killed.
It is now night five. The deadline for night actions is Saturday, October 6th, 10:00 PM EST.
With eleven souls still breathing, it's six votes to lynch.
Also, it's metagaming somewhat, but Azrael was logged on plenty of times today, yet the game just started now. In what is a possible coincidence, Dagger forwarded some messages to me from other people in our group a short while ago. The conspiracy theorist in me really wonders if the day had not yet started because Dagger hadn't submitted certain scum actions yet. It's also worth noting that, as far as I can tell from the conversations, Charm Master also thinks Dagger is scum. I guess I could just be over-analyzing a bunch here, but there are only a couple of possibilities as to who could be the Merovingian, and IMO, Dagger is the leading suspect.
Anyone for Cake?
Flowers?
Anyone?
Nothing besides a little voice in my head last night.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
I wasn't targeted by Cake or Flowers last night.
1. Scum most likely have daytalk. I know this because I clicked on Spoon's profile a couple of times at daytime and saw him PMing. I didn't expect him to come out mafia (yesterday I thought he's the SK), so I didn't mention this before.
2. I wonder what Dagger's gonna say... and I wonder how he's gonna say it, if you get my drift.
3. Cyan's "worry that I'm alive" is completely illogical. Since there was no kill, there must've been protection on ... someone. And since, according to him, I'm the most important role here, why would he refuse to go the extra logical step and assume I was the one protected? (If someone else was killed instead of me, his logic would have some basis. Not so when no one was killed).
4. No flowers, no cake, no nothing.
5. I reread overnight, and some day 3 stuff casts CP in a bad light.
How come when he was talking about "support" for using his multivote, no member of the town was able to understand what he means, but Spoon the mafia member got it?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I was a bit surprised that Spoon actually was the Twins. It doesn't refute my "town is the Matrix" theory, but it puts a dent in it. Then again, alignments in the Matrix canon are incessantly complicated.
I'm still rather confident that one of Rafk or Axel is scum, and I think it's the latter, all things considered.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Axel is not the SK. It's so ridiculous to think that he would even be able to target himself, let alone that by doing so it would trigger yesterday's chain of events. Besides, reading the flavor sequence from yesterday(of me protecting him), it's impossible that he could have been the SK targetting himself..but it's obvious, from the presentation, that SOMEONE targeted him, and I protected him. Beyond that, if he had targeted himself, he wouldn't have been protected by Grakthis' ability anyway. AND he was able to teach someone else to kill, which would mean that, as SK, he was able to submit 2 kills in one day? I mean honestly, this is so much reaching that it is absurd.
I think it's all but guaranteed that the SK is Raf, by process of elimination, if nothing else.
Why, yes it does. Why would you think otherwise?
Interesting info that Alx put together there. I'm beginning to dislike CP's ability the more I think about it and I definately will not be helping out on the vote supply in the future.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
He already stated this.
PM me if you have any to trade or sell.
Games finished:17
Games ongoing:1
Town/Mafia/Other - 13/2/2
Won/Lost/replaced/modkilled- 4/13/3/1
NK'ed(vig'ed)/Lynched/Endgamed(Survived) - 7(2)/5/5(1)
Matrix Mafia Town MVP
Medieval Mafia Mafia MVP
Ye have enemies? Good, good - it means ye've stood up for something, sometime in thy life. - Elminster of Shadowdale
Reading is tech.
You missed the part where I said that he kills by giving other people the opportunity, and he gave the opportunity to someone who would have a motivation to shoot a powerful townie. I mean, why else would the SK shoot him? It's been well-established that he has you protecting him, and because he's out, it would be pretty clear that someone else would be watching (in this case, Grakthis), so the SK had nothing to gain (except take out one of Axel's lives, which seems irrational because the timing doesn't make sense and the plan seems like a waste of resources).
If, instead, Axel is a donor-SK, he gave it to a mafioso, and that mafioso, figuring he had nothing better to do, shot him, hoping for a lucky break. Of course, then circumstances followed as they did.
As it stands, though, I kind of doubt that Rafk is a straight SK. The choices seem purely irrational (I mean, why arimnaes? Seriously, the only thing that guy did was refer to people as "Mr.", which a townie might interpret as a scum posting restriction, but an SK would have no real reason to test).
You're wondering how Axel submitted two kills? Simple - they're the same kill. And the more and more I think about it, I feel like something is up. Especially with you, Cyan - I feel like there's something not being said here. Did you say you were a townie? This last post makes me think your WC is that Axel survive.
At this point, I want to get some attention on this. Something's not adding up, and it's not the kills. Vote Axelrod
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
See where I postulated that Cyan's WC is not town, but that Axel survive. It would explain the pure defensiveness that his last post reeks of, as Cyan would have a vested interest in Axel's survival.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Honestly, that's fine by me. After today, the ability will put me far too close to speedlynch range for me to be comfortable with, and unlike the masons, I wouldn't be able to protect myself from it.
While I agree with Xyre that Axel is not remotely as cleared as Cyan insists that he is, I think we still have better targets in Dagger and RafK today. It is too soon to start second-guessing ourselves here, and Raf is objectively the most likely SK at this point, while Dagger is objectively the most likely scum.
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And also, if Axel has to 'give someone the ability to submit kills' as part of his MO as the SK, please explain *every other day so far*, where this clearly did not happen. Unless Axel has just been secretly passing this abilty to someone, and hoping no one ever noticed. And nevermind that he *got targeted first*. Your theory there is one of the worst I've read in ages. If I'm 'defensive' on Axelrod's behalf, it's because everyone that keeps trying to say he could be the SK is utterly retarded, and completely ignoring the events that have transpired thus far in this game.
And also, Xyre, why are you now referring to Axelrod's role as a 'Vig'. There is no evidence of this whatsoever. I stated that my PM says I'm here to protect him while he teaches people to fight against the machines, and he claimed to be a TOWNIE MENTOR. I mean honestly, put it together here.
Also, trying to eliminate RafK as an SK candidate based on Arimnaes getting killed is sheer ****ing comedy. The major flaw in your theory there is the fact that the SK did, in fact, kill Arimnaes. We all watched it, remember?
Your utterly baseless and absurd attacks here make me think that YOU might be the SK, except that you have one confirmed ability.
But, just for the sake of humor, please explain how the two kills yesterday were 'the same kill'. What, did Azrael PM Axelrod later and tell him 'oh, you can't target yourself because Grakthis sent you away somewhere'(nevermind the sheer lack of logic involved in this statement), but feel free to pass on your kill to someone else this one time? I mean honestly, can you please stop and think about this for even two seconds?
Speaking of which, I died once last night. So no Alx, you weren't Doc protected. A mafia that is close to elimination coming after me makes no sense at all, especially not with some kind of investigator alive.
But, let's see what happens with Dagger.
Hey, you! Yeah, you behind the computer screen! You're unconstitutional.
America == Velociraptor
Play IRC mafia. (/join #mafia)
Hmm.
The fact that he "got targeted" is something I brought up a while back. What if we've misjudged the spoons, I was right all along, and Axel really is the "non-town" who requires two more votes? Wouldn't that make a modicum of sense?
As far as I can see, he teaches people how to kill other people. That's a rough estimate of a vig, from my perspective, if he's indeed town.
Did we? Huh. I just thought I saw him get shot. Maybe we're watching different murders, huh?
Nice redirect.
Dammit, are you reading what I'm writing or just repeating the same drivel and expecting a new result?
For the sake of argumentation, here's a fake Axelrod-as-SK PM:
Axelrod, you are John Conner, SK. You hate everybody etc. etc.
1) Each day, you may force another player to kill a player of his or her choice.
etc. etc.
Besides, unless I'm looking at Grak's claim differently, there seem to be no inconsistencies present as a result of Grak acting.
This is interesting. It doesn't say anything about Axel's alignment (although it pretty much guarantees he's not mafia, which was already a pretty solid conclusion), but it's something to ponder in the grand scheme of things.
Also, just as a general comment, the reactionary nature of this post makes me more confident that I've judged you and Axel correctly.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I think Xyre's theory that Axelrod kills ONLY by giving other people kill abilities is totally bogus (sorry!), we've seen no sign before today that he's given anyone anything. Which is interesting, because you'd think he'd have done it in order to give us a bonus kill to use on Kraj or loran, but it took until day 5 to come out.
But then, I've been singing the "Azel/Cyan= neutral" song ever since they accidentally blew their cover that their motivation was "kill machines", not necessairly to kill scum. And ever since then, Cyan has been trying to get me killed
I'm still not sure that lynching them is our absolute best play at this stage, especially since the mafia apparently took a crack at Cyan last night (I believe Cyan on that; we have no claimed doctors, after all) and might well do the job for us. It will still take us two lynches to get to Axelrod, assuming Cyan can take a lynch for him as well as taking a nightkill for him.
Given that, I await Dagger's first speech of the day (as well as seeing if Alx can verify it or not) with much keenness.
alx: Pretty sure cp is town. His ability would suck too much on a mafia in endgame (because merely by voting him to get him lynched, you give the mafia extra votes) and besides, he was very active on getting atlseal lynched. Also, Puzzle was trying to keep suspicion on cp, and I'm absolutely convinced Puzzle is scum. It's a shame he isn't here to lynch, really.
Oh, and before someone asks, I (to paraphrase) felt myself become whole again as of a start-of-day PM, so yay. Now I'm not vanilla, I just have nothing to do
And in case anyone didn't decipher me yesterday, Azrael had me speak like Ted because no-one would recognise Sarah Edmonson (her being a character with no lines in any media so far), and speaking like Ted at least gets across Keanu Reaves/Neo. Because I was meant to actually be Sarah Edmonson, I was allowed to say I'm Sarah Edmonson even while roleplaying Ted (I checked that out before doing it, as I said, just in case).