Say I've made some basic lands that look authentic and decent, and i can get a hold of some card stock. May i legally take these cards to a tournament such as FNM or something of the sort, or even higher REL events, as long as they don't look marked.
I've got a land that my clan made, and I'll post it. i want to have an official ruling judging on the quality or playability of these cards.
Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
it's pretty much the same as a printed card at least from my opinion, since the set symbol looks different tho. that's the only thing that makes it not wotc authentic. it's pretty much altered art. that's about it
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
it's pretty much the same as a printed card at least from my opinion, since the set symbol looks different tho. that's the only thing that makes it not wotc authentic. it's pretty much altered art. that's about it
Altered art is if you take an MTG island and change the artwork.
Unless that is an actual island WotC printed, then that is a proxy, which isn't allowed.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
it's pretty much the same as a printed card at least from my opinion
The big difference from Wizards' opinion is: Durr, you did not pay them for the card. That's sort of important to them, for some reason.
it's pretty much altered art. that's about it
Altered art is art drawn on a card that Wizards was paid for. Your card is pretty much counterfeit. The fact that it's a basic land (thus not worth much) is beside the point.
Imagine if someone wanted to use a Tarmogoyf that they printed at home. Do you see any issues with that? (Such as, why would anyone buy Magic cards anymore?)
The difference between that situation and yours is only one of degree.
If you're playing with friends (casual play or even testing), using your proxied lands should be fine.
For any altered, different, or remotely questionable cards you should always check with the head judge at the event. With these lands the answer should be that they are not allowed and that real WotC produced, standard land cards need to be used. If the judge doesn't then there may be other illegal issues happening.
Yes. A thousand times yes. They lured me in with Ivory Tower and Zuran Orb, and I kept telling myself "I can quit whenever I want...just look at that untapped disk". That was ten years ago man.....
Say I've made some basic lands that look authentic and decent, and i can get a hold of some card stock. May i legally take these cards to a tournament such as FNM or something of the sort, or even higher REL events, as long as they don't look marked.
The short answer is: it's up to the head judge of the tournament you are playing in. So, there isn't a blanket "ruling" you're going to be able to get from anyone. I can certainly tell you that such a significant modification is likely going to be very questionable, and there could very well be hesitation on allowing the cards at all.
But, this is covered within the Universal Tournament Rules:
Quote from Universal Tournament Rules, Section 28 Taking Notes »
Cards used in a tournament may not have writing on their faces other than signatures or artistic modifications. Modifications may not obscure the artwork so as to make the card unrecognizable. If modifications to a card are deemed by the Head Judge to constitute outside notes or unsporting conduct, the player using such cards will be subject to the appropriate provisions of the DCI Penalty Guidelines.
Quote from Universal Tournament Rules, Section 31 Cards Allowed »
Cards in a player’s deck must be produced by the game’s manufacturer or an official partner approved by the DCI. Please refer to the DCI Floor Rules for the appropriate game for additional information.
The former is important, because most cards are recognized using the artwork. Substituting artwork is certainly going to make it difficult to recognize the card by artwork, since it isn't actual licensed artwork. Furthermore, the policy allows "artistic modification". Replacing the artwork is a bit more than just modification of the existing artwork, so again that seems more than allowed by the policy as stated. My guess is that you may be told "No, those aren't allowed." more often than not.
But, categorically, you will not be able to get an answer on this. Because it is ultimately the head judge's discretion as to whether the cards are allowed. I could tell you that, personally, I wouldn't allow the cards. But you could very well get a different answer from another judge. My best suggestion, bring a replacement card for anything you've altered the artwork on, just in case. Ask the head judge before the event actually begins, that way you have time to swap cards if necessary.
The big difference from Wizards' opinion is: Durr, you did not pay them for the card. That's sort of important to them, for some reason.
That really has little importance, although I'm sure they don't mind that it works out that way. Cards have to be from a trusted (to not alter the functionality of the card, or the ability to detect it when face down) source, or else cheating is possible. Simple as that.
So cards from "official partners" are legal, since WotC can require them to meet their standards. The reason a judge can allow cvariations is becaue that judge can determine, to his or her satisfaction, that cheating isn't the intent.
You didn't "make" that Island, persay. You used an existing piece of art which is actually going to be printed in magic anyhow.
Just wait a little while, that particular Island is part of the 2008-09 MPS distribution in Japan.
thanks to you all, the reason i asked, (and special thanks to yawg07 for knowing they are to already be printed) is that i wanted to make them look unhinged, full art like what is attached to this message, just for the fact that it's cool. and the art is by far better that printed on other basic lands (aside from a select few)
Here was my Example that i wanted to print and use in my decks
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
You didn't "make" that Island, persay. You used an existing piece of art which is actually going to be printed in magic anyhow.
Just wait a little while, that particular Island is part of the 2008-09 MPS distribution in Japan.
a bit off-topic and i apologize for that in advance, but where the heck do I get those?!!
The issue isnt with the card being counterfit, it's that it will have different properties. It would make it very easy to shuffle in ways that ensure you always get what you want.
Effectively you could be playing with a fixed deck.
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Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
that's the reason I'd use card stock, so it's not any different from regular cards that WotC prints, it's using the same dimensions ect...
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
It is not a WotC printed card. Therefore, it's not tournament legal. End of discussion. There really isn't anything else to say. It doesn't matter if it looks like a real card, it doesn't matter if it feels like a real card. It's not a real card.
If you want to play with cool and realistic looking proxies, take them to unsanctioned Vintage tournaments; people will LOVE you there for them (really!). In sanctioned play, however, forget it.
that's the reason I'd use card stock, so it's not any different from regular cards that WotC prints, it's using the same dimensions ect...
Well, good luck with all that. Their printing process does not use readily available cardstock, as you may know. There are two layers stuck together with some kind of magic glue.
Your cards will have to turn out to be the same thickness and flexibility as theirs, not crease when they get riffled, etc. I doubt it'll be as easy as you think.
I'm closing this thread as I really don't think there's anywhere left for this discussion to go. Homemade cards aren't legal in sanctioned tournaments.
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I've got a land that my clan made, and I'll post it. i want to have an official ruling judging on the quality or playability of these cards.
(ect with Forest, Mountain. ect...)
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
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If it's an island with altered art, ask your judge.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
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The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
Altered art is if you take an MTG island and change the artwork.
Unless that is an actual island WotC printed, then that is a proxy, which isn't allowed.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Altered art is art drawn on a card that Wizards was paid for. Your card is pretty much counterfeit. The fact that it's a basic land (thus not worth much) is beside the point.
Imagine if someone wanted to use a Tarmogoyf that they printed at home. Do you see any issues with that? (Such as, why would anyone buy Magic cards anymore?)
The difference between that situation and yours is only one of degree.
For any altered, different, or remotely questionable cards you should always check with the head judge at the event. With these lands the answer should be that they are not allowed and that real WotC produced, standard land cards need to be used. If the judge doesn't then there may be other illegal issues happening.
Rules enforcement goes both ways.
The short answer is: it's up to the head judge of the tournament you are playing in. So, there isn't a blanket "ruling" you're going to be able to get from anyone. I can certainly tell you that such a significant modification is likely going to be very questionable, and there could very well be hesitation on allowing the cards at all.
But, this is covered within the Universal Tournament Rules:
The former is important, because most cards are recognized using the artwork. Substituting artwork is certainly going to make it difficult to recognize the card by artwork, since it isn't actual licensed artwork. Furthermore, the policy allows "artistic modification". Replacing the artwork is a bit more than just modification of the existing artwork, so again that seems more than allowed by the policy as stated. My guess is that you may be told "No, those aren't allowed." more often than not.
But, categorically, you will not be able to get an answer on this. Because it is ultimately the head judge's discretion as to whether the cards are allowed. I could tell you that, personally, I wouldn't allow the cards. But you could very well get a different answer from another judge. My best suggestion, bring a replacement card for anything you've altered the artwork on, just in case. Ask the head judge before the event actually begins, that way you have time to swap cards if necessary.
That really has little importance, although I'm sure they don't mind that it works out that way. Cards have to be from a trusted (to not alter the functionality of the card, or the ability to detect it when face down) source, or else cheating is possible. Simple as that.
So cards from "official partners" are legal, since WotC can require them to meet their standards. The reason a judge can allow cvariations is becaue that judge can determine, to his or her satisfaction, that cheating isn't the intent.
Just wait a little while, that particular Island is part of the 2008-09 MPS distribution in Japan.
Here was my Example that i wanted to print and use in my decks
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
a bit off-topic and i apologize for that in advance, but where the heck do I get those?!!
Effectively you could be playing with a fixed deck.
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
It's still counterfeit.
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If you want to play with cool and realistic looking proxies, take them to unsanctioned Vintage tournaments; people will LOVE you there for them (really!). In sanctioned play, however, forget it.
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Your cards will have to turn out to be the same thickness and flexibility as theirs, not crease when they get riffled, etc. I doubt it'll be as easy as you think.