Yes I feel as though recently I have been more productive. I have actually moved toward a scummy player explaining why I did so. I have also advocated the rest of the town trying to move forward. All you have done is refused to actually question AK, probably for fear he will discredit your shabby argument.
And obviously things are done differently where you live, so it really shouldn't be a question.
Does this answer your question?
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All you have done is refused to actually question AK, probably for fear he will discredit your shabby argument.
if it makes sense to you, say it again, and I will answer it. Yes, the previous sounds like it's coming from a condescending [EMAIL="$$@hat"]$$@hat[/EMAIL], but if I were to address it as is, it won't sound any better, I assure you.
All you have done is refused to actually question AK, probably for fear he will discredit your shabby argument.
I mean what are you accomplishing by trying to get into another personal confronatation with me? Do you not remember how well this worked in batman mafia.
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All you have done is refused to actually question AK, probably for fear he will discredit your shabby argument.
I mentioned to him that a point was brought up against him earlier and he has yet to address it. Thus, I can't possibly be making any type of shabby argument because it's not like I'm fabricating this whole situation. Yes, I don't feel I should have to direct him to where he can find it. What argument am I making that you feel would be discredited by me directing him to the point another player brought against him?
I mean what are you accomplishing by trying to get into another personal confronatation with me? Do you not remember how well this worked in batman mafia.
Not my fault I was doing some honest scum hunting on a player who even admitted himself how incredibly scummy his behavior was...especially for a doctor
Anyway, why the fear tactics? I'm just discussing an issue with you we quite clearly don't see eye-to-eye on.
Unforunately, it's Samoht vs. kpaca rd2. LD hasn't even been mentioned. Try and keep up.
That said, nice side step Kpaca...and Seppel it's not as unlikely as you might think.
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I feel as though the main case of your argument is that he lurked and didn't answer questions. I feel as though this is shoddy and I don't remember your question but I imagine it won't be groundbreaking and AK will probably have a good answer.
That said I'm not trying to use fear tactics and I think we should both probably calm down, myself included. I can be rather hot-headed. I apologize to have offended you.
@Samoht: Nice side step??? Explanation?
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I feel as though the main case of your argument is that he lurked and didn't answer questions.
Alright, now that's reasonable. But of note, the question brought up isn't really something minor or stupid, it seems pretty damning to me, at least. To clarify, it's not like I voted him for not responding to a point that would be considered dumb/rhetorical/a joke/etc.
I feel as though this is shoddy and I don't remember your question but I imagine it won't be groundbreaking and AK will probably have a good answer.
The vote is because he hadn't answered a question I feel is extremely damning, but also because he was infinitely more concerned with calling Seppel scum instead of addressing something that would be much more of a real issue.
That said I'm not trying to use fear tactics and I think we should both probably calm down, myself included.
I think I'm quite calm in answering the questions you've asked me.
I can be rather hot-headed. I apologize to have offended you.
It's all good, no offense taken. The offense I got from you over the course of the past ~hr is much less than when my friend threw a frozen chocolate at my face earlier, hitting me just below my eye.
I now more clearly understand your case, but I still wish you would point him toward your damning question. And be careful, I am a known frozen chocolate thrower.
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I now more clearly understand your case, but I still wish you would point him toward your damning question. And be careful, I am a known frozen chocolate thrower.
See, it's double-edged. At the same time it troubles me he hasn't answered it, it is equally troubling to me the person who brought it up hasn't followed through. I suppose it is possible I could be completely missing something, but the whole thing just doesn't sit well with me.
Why play at all? Everything can be construed as WIFOM.
For instance, #442 defends two scum, #534 defend SSB again, #580 Hammer? Really? seems like distancing, #849 misrepping my beliefs and another lame excuse to get on a wagon, #872 logical vote, why continuing pursuing after doc claim, #878 please don't hurt me loran, #946 WIFOM shield ready in case anyone accuses me of killing DC and no case presented to why u think he was scum, #1030 barn Akid?!?, and now the above.
But you're right it's all WIFOM.
Just because you can argue that something is WIFOM doesn't mean it actually is.
If someone was actually making the above points as a case against me, I could argue my stance and people could decide if they believe me or not, based on several different factors - the logic I use, context of the posts, behavioural tells, etc. None of that applies to nightkills, because you can't interogate anyone. Just about anything you can infer from a nightkill could have been intentional, but there's no way to determine if it is. That's the definition of WIFOM.
Nearly every time I've been scum, someone at the very least suggests killing someone else on the basis that it will make another townie look bad. Add to this the fact that we can't be sure which kills are from scum, and which are from a vig, and you've got an even bigger mess. Trying to sort out which kills were done for what reason is a trap, and a waste of time.
Howdy all. Apologies for not posting more - work's been fairly busy recently, and my discretional time was spoken for for other things.
I support going into Block 3 without a lynch. I agree that we'd rather have had one, but a speedlynch at this point won't actually get us good information and would be low percentage.
Maxx has been very lurky, but I haven't been convinced that there's anything there that makes him scummy. The current mudslinging also hasn't made me want anyone dead. Or, well, it has, but not because I think you're scum.
If there's any more retarded arguments I'm not even going to bother replacing you, I'll just modkill you and we'll keep playing. See the rules you agreed to on posts two and three. Play mafia, not MTGS.
If there's any more retarded arguments I'm not even going to bother replacing you, I'll just modkill you and we'll keep playing. See the rules you agreed to on posts two and three. Play mafia, not MTGS.
Errr, what exactly are you talking about? The arguments over whether something is wifom?
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@loran: I imagine he's referring to the name-calling between Some One, Samoht, and kpaca, primarily.
@Inifinis: This is a completely different scenario from where the game state was when TMT made his post that you linked to earlier. At this point, rushing through a lynch for the sake of killing someone is irresponsible when we can make the same determination tomorrow with more information and the ability to do so more than once, which is atypical from your normal mafia game.
@Inifinis: This is a completely different scenario from where the game state was when TMT made his post that you linked to earlier. At this point, rushing through a lynch for the sake of killing someone is irresponsible when we can make the same determination tomorrow with more information and the ability to do so more than once, which is atypical from your normal mafia game.
As much as I dislike ending the block without a lynch, I have to agree here. Having a lynch to examine the next block is certainly important, but a lynch done strictly for the sake of having a lynch is going to give skewed results when analysis time comes. If we honestly can't agree on a lynch for the right reasons, then we're better off making up for it next block.
I understand the reluctance to lynch with the impending deadline and no clear cut lynch. However, this gives the remaining scum the excuse to lurk away the entire block! Why would any of the scum proverbially stick their necks out and post anything of substance if they can just lurk and be consequence free.
As Some One and Kpaca can attest to I could not make any arguments against the lurker in Batman mafia because there was just not enough information to work with. In this game, the issue of lurking is more problematic. We have 20 players and half pop in for 3 posts and then lurk the rest of the block away. Seppel's post about this was dead on.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
I understand the reluctance to lynch with the impending deadline and no clear cut lynch. However, this gives the remaining scum the excuse to lurk away the entire block! Why would any of the scum proverbially stick their necks out and post anything of substance if they can just lurk and be consequence free?
As much as I dislike ending the block without a lynch, I have to agree here. Having a lynch to examine the next block is certainly important, but a lynch done strictly for the sake of having a lynch is going to give skewed results when analysis time comes. If we honestly can't agree on a lynch for the right reasons, then we're better off making up for it next block.
I understand the reluctance to lynch with the impending deadline and no clear cut lynch. However, this gives the remaining scum the excuse to lurk away the entire block! Why would any of the scum proverbially stick their necks out and post anything of substance if they can just lurk and be consequence free.
As Some One and Kpaca can attest to I could not make any arguments against the lurker in Batman mafia because there was just not enough information to work with. In this game, the issue of lurking is more problematic. We have 20 players and half pop in for 3 posts and then lurk the rest of the block away. Seppel's post about this was dead on.
Well, we could vote to end the block or just wait the 24 hours that it would probably take for us to finish such a vote.
About the lurking, sure its unfortunate, but even the people who are posting aren't saying anything useful. If the two real life days disappeared out of this game and been replaced by a vote to end the block, nothing would have been lost.
Why do you refuse to participate, this is how we will win fastest.
"we" is referring to....
AKid's post was directed at MMoD, for clarification, and as far as I can tell, MMoD didn't answer it, address it, or discuss how absolutely scummy it sounds.
Furthermore, Akid's posts around this page 7 are all directed @ trying to nail Seppel as scum [post 300, the only one that came after Minni's question, but others before it as well], and then not too long later, he unvotes Seppel, facing no other alternatives in his next post after his post 300, which was 520 where he says:
If we are not going to get a lynch, then we need more info. As such everyone needs to vote someone.
Many of you have voted to elicit a response from the target not expecting a lynch, therefore right now WIFOM excuses aside, you need to make a vote on the person you think is most likely scum.
By fence sitting and/or lurking, you do not help the town.
@loran Why do you maintain your vote on me? It does not help the town and if you are town your lack of will to scum hunt, after my claim, hurts the town further. I reiterate from my previous post; we all know what happens when you leave a vote on someone in protest to their play, a very fast wagon during the next block.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
Okay, TBH I skimmed all the mudslinging. Didn't feel like anything would be accomplished reading those through.
My top pick is A_E. His push for Cubus explaining himself is IMO, very scummy. Regardless of what happenes, if Cubus lives, he'll eventually need to explain himself. If he has role-info, then its good he keeps quiet. If he doesn't, then he actually does have a reason based on thread-info. Once there is enough pressure on Samoht, or himself for lynching, he'll need to explain himself. The way A_E asked for Cubus to say again and again seems to me like he's fishing for role info. Also, others have mentioned his previous behaviour which sounds somewhat bad, though i haven't really looked at it closely. As such, I'm willing to vote A_E. If there aren't enough votes, w/e. B2 ends soon anyways, so I'll take the small chance we might get a lynch off.
I chose to ignore AKid then since I explained why in the same post he quoted and didn't feel responding to a pointless question. I didn't see that line as particularily scummy in any direction. AK seems scummy, but he's lurking because of RL, so there's not much to go on.
Did LD ever claim? I don't recall it, but I might be wrong. Currently very neutral on him.
I'm still here, I'm also keeping my vote where it is because Samoht's last 2 posts have been ridiculous, flamey and unbelievably desperate sounding, I am shocked that is still around, other than that I think that A_E is the next most scummy, he seems a likely SK but I can't be sure, I don't see LampDwellr being scum, hes responses have seemd more like overly defensive town and he seems genuine in his angerm I'm ot completely dismissing him but I think their is more scummy people currently. Not sure on Cubus yet, he seems town, but hes defense of samoht with little explaination is kind of annoying. I don't know what to think of Akid, hes posts so far have been pretty nuetral, without more posts from him there is no way to tell.
Seriously, read from the post where dC was killed. I can't imagine Samoth being scum the way he posted.
MMoD: LD claimed vanilla, I think.
It's sad to see that people think other players are town for getting mad this easily. If I wanted to, I could flame and sprout nonsense and use a lot of caps and bolds, but I could too if I were scum. It's really naive to clear someone that way.
Its not that he did it, its how he did it, anyway, samoht and LD both did that, so by that logic they are either both town or both scum, since they did the same thing right? I'm not clearing LD, I just think Samoht looks more scummy from my point of veiw.
I think that forcing people into votes now isn't going to be horribly productive. For one thing, if a full wagon develops, we don't want it to end in a lynch - I wouldn't have confidence in any lynch that might happen in the next few hours.
That having been said, I'm certainly not a fan of Archmage Eternal, and would support pressure on him next block. Cubus is another person that I really want to take a good look at.
I strongly support a Archmage Eternal lynch today, especially given he responses to pressure. The early flailing followed up with lurking is pretty by the book scum tell.
That being said, I'm not a fan of any of the other wagons, though I would agree with pressuring LD, Samoht, and Cubus next block to finally put a definative end tot he various mudslinging wars. I really don't support a lynch of any of them ATM.
AKid's post was directed at MMoD, for clarification, and as far as I can tell, MMoD didn't answer it, address it, or discuss how absolutely scummy it sounds.
Furthermore, Akid's posts around this page 7 are all directed @ trying to nail Seppel as scum [post 300, the only one that came after Minni's question, but others before it as well], and then not too long later, he unvotes Seppel, facing no other alternatives in his next post after his post 300, which was 520 where he says:
Are you serious? That's the unansweredd question? That is obviously a rhetorical question, because I clearly answer that we means the town.
I was convinced Seppel was scum, but he was then cleared by PM shenanigans.
We live in a country were ~50% of the populace believe public schooling is a socialist conspiracy and that being called Einstein is an insult. We could try and fix it, but unfortunately the other 50% don't believe in euthanasia.
I'd like you to imagine that he responded to the post with :rolleyes:. Would you still have a problem with him?
Yes because obviously he was going to say he was referring to "we" as in the "town," but it seems like an out of place response given the post he quoted.
"Hello, children! It's that time again! Are you ready for the body count?"
Skander, Yoji Kuramoto, Protown mason, is dead from a detonated collar. DesCoures, Satomi Noda, Paranoid Cop, is dead from gunshot. Seppel, Sakura Ogawa, Protown mason, is dead from gunshot.
Block 3 ends Wednesday, February 11th at 2:00PM, Eastern Time.
I do not get the impression he's doing any actual scum-hunting, rather just going with the flow and tossing suspicion on whomever is being talked about at the time. His laziness in the exchange with Some One was hardly inspiring, and the original post I questioned still reeks of a false dilemma.
I believe it was Cubus that was quite happy DesCoures was dead; I'd like to hear anything additional he has to say on that matter now that her alignment has been revealed.
Also, of note, there was one less shot in CB2 than in CB1, is that indicative of the fact one group has been eliminated or that a vig/SK opted not to fire? Or maybe infinis managed to get a protection in.
Also, of note, there was one less shot in CB2 than in CB1, is that indicative of the fact one group has been eliminated or that a vig/SK opted not to fire? Or maybe infinis managed to get a protection in.
Rook was likely killed by a townie vig. That person decided not to shoot last night. I approve of both choices.
Still need to do some rereads to figure out exactly who is deserving of pressure today. I've done a reread of Archmage Eternal and am not convinced that he's guilty of anything beyond noobery. No real positive signs, but he's been reasonably consistent in his posts.
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And obviously things are done differently where you live, so it really shouldn't be a question.
Does this answer your question?
if it makes sense to you, say it again, and I will answer it. Yes, the previous sounds like it's coming from a condescending [EMAIL="$$@hat"]$$@hat[/EMAIL], but if I were to address it as is, it won't sound any better, I assure you.
I mean what are you accomplishing by trying to get into another personal confronatation with me? Do you not remember how well this worked in batman mafia.
This is actually round 3.
I'm getting really tired of these mudslinging arguments.
I mentioned to him that a point was brought up against him earlier and he has yet to address it. Thus, I can't possibly be making any type of shabby argument because it's not like I'm fabricating this whole situation. Yes, I don't feel I should have to direct him to where he can find it. What argument am I making that you feel would be discredited by me directing him to the point another player brought against him?
Not my fault I was doing some honest scum hunting on a player who even admitted himself how incredibly scummy his behavior was...especially for a doctor
Anyway, why the fear tactics? I'm just discussing an issue with you we quite clearly don't see eye-to-eye on.
Unforunately, it's Samoht vs. kpaca rd2. LD hasn't even been mentioned. Try and keep up.
That said, nice side step Kpaca...and Seppel it's not as unlikely as you might think.
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That said I'm not trying to use fear tactics and I think we should both probably calm down, myself included. I can be rather hot-headed. I apologize to have offended you.
@Samoht: Nice side step??? Explanation?
Alright, now that's reasonable. But of note, the question brought up isn't really something minor or stupid, it seems pretty damning to me, at least. To clarify, it's not like I voted him for not responding to a point that would be considered dumb/rhetorical/a joke/etc.
The vote is because he hadn't answered a question I feel is extremely damning, but also because he was infinitely more concerned with calling Seppel scum instead of addressing something that would be much more of a real issue.
I think I'm quite calm in answering the questions you've asked me.
It's all good, no offense taken. The offense I got from you over the course of the past ~hr is much less than when my friend threw a frozen chocolate at my face earlier, hitting me just below my eye.
Yeah, IDK what was up with that whole post.
See, it's double-edged. At the same time it troubles me he hasn't answered it, it is equally troubling to me the person who brought it up hasn't followed through. I suppose it is possible I could be completely missing something, but the whole thing just doesn't sit well with me.
If someone was actually making the above points as a case against me, I could argue my stance and people could decide if they believe me or not, based on several different factors - the logic I use, context of the posts, behavioural tells, etc. None of that applies to nightkills, because you can't interogate anyone. Just about anything you can infer from a nightkill could have been intentional, but there's no way to determine if it is. That's the definition of WIFOM.
Nearly every time I've been scum, someone at the very least suggests killing someone else on the basis that it will make another townie look bad. Add to this the fact that we can't be sure which kills are from scum, and which are from a vig, and you've got an even bigger mess. Trying to sort out which kills were done for what reason is a trap, and a waste of time.
[The Family]
I support going into Block 3 without a lynch. I agree that we'd rather have had one, but a speedlynch at this point won't actually get us good information and would be low percentage.
Maxx has been very lurky, but I haven't been convinced that there's anything there that makes him scummy. The current mudslinging also hasn't made me want anyone dead. Or, well, it has, but not because I think you're scum.
... ummmmmm
I more meant that it was additional mudslinging the town absolutely doesn't need...
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Errr, what exactly are you talking about? The arguments over whether something is wifom?
Logical Reasoning is dead; Long Live Stupidity
@Inifinis: This is a completely different scenario from where the game state was when TMT made his post that you linked to earlier. At this point, rushing through a lynch for the sake of killing someone is irresponsible when we can make the same determination tomorrow with more information and the ability to do so more than once, which is atypical from your normal mafia game.
As much as I dislike ending the block without a lynch, I have to agree here. Having a lynch to examine the next block is certainly important, but a lynch done strictly for the sake of having a lynch is going to give skewed results when analysis time comes. If we honestly can't agree on a lynch for the right reasons, then we're better off making up for it next block.
Record: 3-2
Simpsons Mafia (Newbie) - Vanilla Mafia - Win
The Fiasco Corporation - Town Reporter - Loss
Doomsday Mafia - Mafia Roleblocker - Win
Battle Royale Mafia - Serial Daykiller - Loss
Danger City Mafia - Vanilla Town - Win
As Some One and Kpaca can attest to I could not make any arguments against the lurker in Batman mafia because there was just not enough information to work with. In this game, the issue of lurking is more problematic. We have 20 players and half pop in for 3 posts and then lurk the rest of the block away. Seppel's post about this was dead on.
12-11? I'm losing track
Or post fluff / "I agree" posts like this one:
And on another note...
...I even forgot one person on that list because I didn't know he was in the game!
About the lurking, sure its unfortunate, but even the people who are posting aren't saying anything useful. If the two real life days disappeared out of this game and been replaced by a vote to end the block, nothing would have been lost.
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unvote: Vote to end the block.
Because it is the only way I can see us progressing forward.
Correct.
Maxx - 3 (CropCircles, Seppel, Infinis)
Cubus - 3 (Maxx, LampDwellr, Archmage Eternal)
Samoht - 2 (The Fallen One, Apokalypse Kid)
LampDwellr - 2 (Samoht, Cubus)
loran16 - 2 (andelijah, Minineko)
Archmage Eternal - 2 (Emo_Pinata, The Mad Tapper)
Infinis - 1 (loran16)
Apokalypse Kid - 1 (Some One)
End The Block - 1 (kpaca)
Block 3 in 19 hours.
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AKid's post was directed at MMoD, for clarification, and as far as I can tell, MMoD didn't answer it, address it, or discuss how absolutely scummy it sounds.
Furthermore, Akid's posts around this page 7 are all directed @ trying to nail Seppel as scum [post 300, the only one that came after Minni's question, but others before it as well], and then not too long later, he unvotes Seppel, facing no other alternatives in his next post after his post 300, which was 520 where he says:
Many of you have voted to elicit a response from the target not expecting a lynch, therefore right now WIFOM excuses aside, you need to make a vote on the person you think is most likely scum.
By fence sitting and/or lurking, you do not help the town.
@loran Why do you maintain your vote on me? It does not help the town and if you are town your lack of will to scum hunt, after my claim, hurts the town further. I reiterate from my previous post; we all know what happens when you leave a vote on someone in protest to their play, a very fast wagon during the next block.
12-11? I'm losing track
Hell, at this point, we might as well start with a random voting phase on block 3. It'll get more accomplished than all of block 2.
Block 2 highlights:
1) Genderclaims
2) Mudslinging
3) No lynch
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My top pick is A_E. His push for Cubus explaining himself is IMO, very scummy. Regardless of what happenes, if Cubus lives, he'll eventually need to explain himself. If he has role-info, then its good he keeps quiet. If he doesn't, then he actually does have a reason based on thread-info. Once there is enough pressure on Samoht, or himself for lynching, he'll need to explain himself. The way A_E asked for Cubus to say again and again seems to me like he's fishing for role info. Also, others have mentioned his previous behaviour which sounds somewhat bad, though i haven't really looked at it closely. As such, I'm willing to vote A_E. If there aren't enough votes, w/e. B2 ends soon anyways, so I'll take the small chance we might get a lynch off.
I chose to ignore AKid then since I explained why in the same post he quoted and didn't feel responding to a pointless question. I didn't see that line as particularily scummy in any direction. AK seems scummy, but he's lurking because of RL, so there's not much to go on.
Did LD ever claim? I don't recall it, but I might be wrong. Currently very neutral on him.
Its not that he did it, its how he did it, anyway, samoht and LD both did that, so by that logic they are either both town or both scum, since they did the same thing right? I'm not clearing LD, I just think Samoht looks more scummy from my point of veiw.
Agreed.
That having been said, I'm certainly not a fan of Archmage Eternal, and would support pressure on him next block. Cubus is another person that I really want to take a good look at.
That being said, I'm not a fan of any of the other wagons, though I would agree with pressuring LD, Samoht, and Cubus next block to finally put a definative end tot he various mudslinging wars. I really don't support a lynch of any of them ATM.
Are you serious? That's the unansweredd question? That is obviously a rhetorical question, because I clearly answer that we means the town.
I was convinced Seppel was scum, but he was then cleared by PM shenanigans.
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So you say that "we" means town, but how does that make sense? I want you to explain your post in relation to MMoD's.
I'd like you to imagine that he responded to the post with :rolleyes:. Would you still have a problem with him?
Yes because obviously he was going to say he was referring to "we" as in the "town," but it seems like an out of place response given the post he quoted.
Maxx - 3 (CropCircles, Seppel, Infinis)
Cubus - 3 (Maxx, LampDwellr, Archmage Eternal)
LampDwellr - 2 (Samoht, Cubus)
loran16 - 2 (andelijah, Minineko)
Infinis - 1 (loran16)
Apokalypse Kid - 1 (Some One)
Samoht - 1 (Apokalypse Kid)
End The Block - 1 (kpaca)
Block 3 in 30 minutes, any choices not submitted by then are forfeit.
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Skander, Yoji Kuramoto, Protown mason, is dead from a detonated collar.
DesCoures, Satomi Noda, Paranoid Cop, is dead from gunshot.
Seppel, Sakura Ogawa, Protown mason, is dead from gunshot.
Block 3 ends Wednesday, February 11th at 2:00PM, Eastern Time.
19 students remaining.
Battle Royale Mafia
(Come see who won!)
I really think he should have been lynched B2.
FOS: Maxx, your close to getting my vote.
I do not get the impression he's doing any actual scum-hunting, rather just going with the flow and tossing suspicion on whomever is being talked about at the time. His laziness in the exchange with Some One was hardly inspiring, and the original post I questioned still reeks of a false dilemma.
I believe it was Cubus that was quite happy DesCoures was dead; I'd like to hear anything additional he has to say on that matter now that her alignment has been revealed.
I want you to explain your response to the post of MMoD that you quoted.
Or someone got blocked. Either way it is curious.
Still need to do some rereads to figure out exactly who is deserving of pressure today. I've done a reread of Archmage Eternal and am not convinced that he's guilty of anything beyond noobery. No real positive signs, but he's been reasonably consistent in his posts.