I'd like some help cutting out cards (too many right now) and with some suggestions of cards I maybe forgot.
The main idea of this deck is I love Shirei as a card, but I wanted a deck where I could use him and two other colours of my choice, so I chose Merieke as the general. I've started liking the idea of controlling my opponents cards and using them against them too.
So what I'd want to do is get Shirei out as much as possible, hopefully it won't be too hard with my tutors. Then I can use cards like Daring Apprentice every opponent's turns, as long as I have Thousand-Year Elixir.
I also included untappers for Merieke, so I can take and destroy more than one creature per turn. I don't know if I need as many though, as if I have Pemmin's Aura or Freed From the Real I can untap a lot. Add in Phyrexian Altar and I kill all opponent's creatures except whichever one I want to control. Then I can use other creatures/enchantments to pull creatures out of my opponent's creatures to gain control of them.
Edit: For some reason it won't let me put the DECK thing around it, the cards don't show up and the formatting messes up.
I also included untappers for Merieke, so I can take and destroy more than one creature per turn.
Edit: For some reason it won't let me put the DECK thing around it, the cards don't show up and the formatting messes up.
Mmmm wat? You do realize that she doesn't untap during your untap step right, so unless you have an untapper she won't be untapping period. Also, to put it in the deck tags you have to have a number in front of each card first.
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EDH Decks:
Halfdane Sek'Kuar
Please remember to autocard, just do [ card ] CARD NAME [ / card ] and for decks you can cover the whole thing in one deck tag like this: [ deck ] All of the cards in the deck [ / deck ]
I actually have a question about Coffin Queen. If I tap her to take control of a creature in a graveyard, then sac her while the effect is on the stack, does the creature stay under my control, as I lost control of her before the effect resolved?
I actually have a question about Coffin Queen. If I tap her to take control of a creature in a graveyard, then sac her while the effect is on the stack, does the creature stay under my control, as I lost control of her before the effect resolved?
Ah, thanks for letting me know it's banned. I guess the list I looked at was out of date.
Alright, so cards I'm thinking of taking out (it's currently 109 cards)
Dimir Doppelganger: I'd rather steal a creature with Coffin Queen than remove one from the game Ertai, Wizard Adept: I have a handful of creatures that can counter spells already, for less than 4 mana a turn Academy Rector: A tutor for 4 mana and only one use cause it gets removed...I have tutors aplenty Phyrexian Totem: Just doesn't really fit the theme Steelshaper Apprentice: Not sure about this one, Merieke + Thornwood Staff = Instant creature dominance as long as I can sac one creature initially, but I only have 2 equipment cards, so after that this guy becomes useless
Can't think what else to take out. Maybe the instant card tutors? They're really only useful for copying a counter onto Isochron Scepter.
Also I just wanted to ask everyone how competitive this deck would be. I haven't played that much magic for a long long time, so any tips are useful. Is it too combo based? Would it work well against all the most popular generals I would play against (Zur, Arcum, etc)?
I just started playtesting my own Merieke Ri Berit deck last night. Mine is almost 100% focused on playing with other people's stuff. Some of the cards I'm using that you may want to consider are:
Commandeer It has a fairly high casting cost, but the pitch ability is totally worth it when your opponent tries to Time Stretch. It's also one of the few answers to [cardBanefire[/card].
Blatant Thievery Not as good in 1v1, but it's pretty outstanding in multiplayer. In a three-way las night I got a Privileged Position and an Elspeth, Knight-Errant. If you're playing in a multiplayer environment, I'd consider this an auto-include in this type of deck.
Take Possession Another high mana cost spell, but the split second prevents people from killing or RFGing their own permanents in response (which I've found happens a lot).
Personlly, I'd pull out the Magister Sphinx. Partly because it breaks the theme of the deck (and I'm really big on sticking with a deck's theme). And partly because I think the card is beyond overpowered in EDH and should be banned.
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"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
I was gonna throw in Control Magic, since it's one of the few cards in the list I actually own, but I think with Merieke it's not really necessary. The other cards you mentioned I wouldn't mind adding though. Now I have to think even harder about what I want to take out
What is your experience playing with Merieke? Do you find people just stop bringing out creatures and focus all attention on trying to kill her?
Even if Merieke is out and active, people may still play creatures. Generally, it's things like Chameleon Colossus that have protection from black. But, other things that are really only useful for their CIP abilities will still be played. Usually, it's just generals and giant bombs that won't get played. You can only steal one creature anyway unless you've got some untappers. But yes, the problem with Merieke as a general is that she's a huge target. That's why I run as many other steal and copy effects as I can and not depend on her entirely.
I know you've got cuts to make, but there's a few more cards that I forgot to put in the list:
Dominating Licid You may win some games against weaker opponents when their heads explode while trying to understand the Licid mechanic. Otherwise, it's just another Control Magic effect.
As far as cutting goes, what I usually do is remove all but the most necessary utility cards and everything that is blatantly off-theme. Extreme focus does wonders for being able to cut cards. That way your deck may only do one thing, but it will do it really well. As far as specific cards I'd cut:
Hopefully that helps a bit. It does neuter your Shirei theme you were going for a bit, but I think you'll get a stronger deck out of it.
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"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Yeah, you might be right, I should probably focus on her more and Shirei less to make a better deck. I just really like him as a card, I think it's a sweet idea. I think I might actually do a Shirei deck first and then make a Merieke one later, since I just found out yesterday someone in my play group already has her as a general (although I think the group I play with is more casual about it). I kinda just wanted a general that would give me more options for Shirei, like being able to use Daring Apprentice every turn seems very useful. I guess I just like it cause it gives you effects you can have available every turn, makes your cards a bit more dependable instead of having one counterspell in hand and having to constantly wonder if you should save it or use it now.
Anyways, I also like the deck idea of just using your opponents cards against them, and actually all the cards you suggested seem useful.
If your opponent only plays CIP creatures do you think it would be a better idea to have more a focus on cards that tutor the opponent's library to gain control of something, or gain control from their hand?
Almost everything in the deck eigher steals or copies. I didn't include Beacon of Unrest because I only own one and it's in another deck.
Opponents who use a lot of CIP creatures aren't a huge problem. That's what Clone and it's variants are for. Along with Crystal Shard/Mistmeadow Witch/Momentary Blink you can usually abuse their CIP creatures better than they can.
If you want to do a mono blcok Shirei deck I'm sure there's one in the deck database sticky thread you can use as a base. A guy in my play group had one and it was pretty well built.
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"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
I have Berit in my Sharuum deck and the stuff I play to abuse it are: Erratic Portal, Crystal Shard, Puppet Strings, and Fatestitcher. Note all them do a great effect for very little like bouncing your CITP effect dudes, tapping your opponent's behemoth's, plus Fatestitcher can untap stuff and is GREAT with Gilded Lotus. If I were you, I'd definitely want to cut Ponder and Brainstorm and replace with heavy drawing spells like Ancestral Knowledge, Concentrate, Tidings, etc. 1 for 1s just aren't worth it in EDH in my opinion. Hanna, Ship's Navigator is also good to get back all your enchantments.
Does Clone work with CIP creatures? It's already in play when it becomes a copy of the creature, isn't it? Or does it happen simultaneously?
CIP effects definitely work with Clone and its variants. You choose what to copy "as Clone comes into play". So,once it's in play it's already whatever it copied and any CIP triggers will happen. While in play there is no time when it is not what it is copying.
@jokalhaups: I agree that Brainstorm isn't very good in EDH. It has performed pertty poorly for me. The shuffle portion of Ponder has saved me many times though. I'm not ready to take it out quite yet. Hanna, Ship's Navigator is a great suggestion. I'm almost certain to loose some of my Control Magics and it would be nice to get them back.
One card I've beenthinking about adding is Synod Sanctum. It will allow me to get back anything I steal with my general after a Wrath. It feels like rubbing salt in an open wound, but it's also synergy and that's difficult to resist. Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"If I were you I wouldn't put antimatter in my pocket, if you knew what was good for you." ~ Dr. Michio Kaku
Standard:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Yea, but if you play Synod Sanctum, you'll have to remember all the errata like Exile instead of RFG and "the battlefield" instead of play... think about it, it's not worth it. (just kidding)
1 Merieke Ri Berit
Creatures:
1 Hell's Caretaker
1 Coffin Queen
1 Cemetary Puca
1 Fatestitcher
1 Academy Rector
1 Order of Whiteclay
1 Junk Diver
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Norritt
1 Ertai, Wizard Adept
1 Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
1 Daring Apprentice
1 Fatespinner
1 Magus of the Unseen
1 Aphetto Alchemist
1 Puppetteer
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Diplomatic Escort
1 Body Double
1 Devoted Caretaker
1 Mother of Runes
1 Benevolent Bodyguard
1 Steelshaper Apprentice
1 Sustaining Spirit
1 Archon of Justice
1 Soltari Visionary
1 Dimir Doppelganger
1 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 Angel of Despair
1 Ertai, the Corrupted
1 Scrivener
1 Vesuvan Doppelganger
1 Magister Sphinx
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Thornbite Staff
1 Grinning Totem
1 Obelisk of Esper
1 Phyrexian Altar
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Puppet Strings
1 Magewright's Stone
1 Isochron Scepter
Enchantments:
1 Debtor's Knell
1 Necropotence
1 Pemmin's Aura
1 Diplomatic Immunity
1 Freed From the Real
1 Animate Dead
1 Phyrexian Arena
Spells:
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Confiscate
1 Telemin Performance
1 Acquire
1 Bribery
1 Trickbind
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Vindicate
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 Counterspell
1 Countersquall
1 Envelop
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Pact of Negation
1 Disenchant
1 Liliana Vess
Lands:
1 Phyrexian Totem
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Bad River
1 Flood Plain
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Coastal Tower
1 Salt Marsh
1 Boreal Shelf
1 Frost Marsh
1 Academy Ruins
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tolaria West
1 Vesuva
1 Volrath’s Stronghold
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 High Market
1 Skycloud Expanse
1 Esper Panorama
1 Dreadship Reef
1 City of Shadows
1 Thran Quarry
1 Darkwater Catacombs
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Plains
I'd like some help cutting out cards (too many right now) and with some suggestions of cards I maybe forgot.
The main idea of this deck is I love Shirei as a card, but I wanted a deck where I could use him and two other colours of my choice, so I chose Merieke as the general. I've started liking the idea of controlling my opponents cards and using them against them too.
So what I'd want to do is get Shirei out as much as possible, hopefully it won't be too hard with my tutors. Then I can use cards like Daring Apprentice every opponent's turns, as long as I have Thousand-Year Elixir.
I also included untappers for Merieke, so I can take and destroy more than one creature per turn. I don't know if I need as many though, as if I have Pemmin's Aura or Freed From the Real I can untap a lot. Add in Phyrexian Altar and I kill all opponent's creatures except whichever one I want to control. Then I can use other creatures/enchantments to pull creatures out of my opponent's creatures to gain control of them.
Edit: For some reason it won't let me put the DECK thing around it, the cards don't show up and the formatting messes up.
WRGUBScion of the Ur-DragonWRGUB
UChisei, Heart of OceansU
URJhoira of the GhituUR
BShirei, Shizo's CaretakerB
Mmmm wat? You do realize that she doesn't untap during your untap step right, so unless you have an untapper she won't be untapping period. Also, to put it in the deck tags you have to have a number in front of each card first.
Halfdane
Sek'Kuar
Please remember to autocard, just do [ card ] CARD NAME [ / card ] and for decks you can cover the whole thing in one deck tag like this: [ deck ] All of the cards in the deck [ / deck ]
WRGUBScion of the Ur-DragonWRGUB
UChisei, Heart of OceansU
URJhoira of the GhituUR
BShirei, Shizo's CaretakerB
WRGUBScion of the Ur-DragonWRGUB
UChisei, Heart of OceansU
URJhoira of the GhituUR
BShirei, Shizo's CaretakerB
You keep the creature.
WRGUBScion of the Ur-DragonWRGUB
UChisei, Heart of OceansU
URJhoira of the GhituUR
BShirei, Shizo's CaretakerB
-Panoptic Mirror
Reasoning is that Sphinx is broken and Mirror is banned.
Alright, so cards I'm thinking of taking out (it's currently 109 cards)
Dimir Doppelganger: I'd rather steal a creature with Coffin Queen than remove one from the game
Ertai, Wizard Adept: I have a handful of creatures that can counter spells already, for less than 4 mana a turn
Academy Rector: A tutor for 4 mana and only one use cause it gets removed...I have tutors aplenty
Phyrexian Totem: Just doesn't really fit the theme
Steelshaper Apprentice: Not sure about this one, Merieke + Thornwood Staff = Instant creature dominance as long as I can sac one creature initially, but I only have 2 equipment cards, so after that this guy becomes useless
Can't think what else to take out. Maybe the instant card tutors? They're really only useful for copying a counter onto Isochron Scepter.
Also I just wanted to ask everyone how competitive this deck would be. I haven't played that much magic for a long long time, so any tips are useful. Is it too combo based? Would it work well against all the most popular generals I would play against (Zur, Arcum, etc)?
WRGUBScion of the Ur-DragonWRGUB
UChisei, Heart of OceansU
URJhoira of the GhituUR
BShirei, Shizo's CaretakerB
Personlly, I'd pull out the Magister Sphinx. Partly because it breaks the theme of the deck (and I'm really big on sticking with a deck's theme). And partly because I think the card is beyond overpowered in EDH and should be banned.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
What is your experience playing with Merieke? Do you find people just stop bringing out creatures and focus all attention on trying to kill her?
WRGUBScion of the Ur-DragonWRGUB
UChisei, Heart of OceansU
URJhoira of the GhituUR
BShirei, Shizo's CaretakerB
I know you've got cuts to make, but there's a few more cards that I forgot to put in the list:
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Anyways, I also like the deck idea of just using your opponents cards against them, and actually all the cards you suggested seem useful.
If your opponent only plays CIP creatures do you think it would be a better idea to have more a focus on cards that tutor the opponent's library to gain control of something, or gain control from their hand?
WRGUBScion of the Ur-DragonWRGUB
UChisei, Heart of OceansU
URJhoira of the GhituUR
BShirei, Shizo's CaretakerB
1 Merieke Ri Berit
Creatures
1 Adarkar Valkyrie
1 Body Double
1 Clone
1 Dimir Doppelganger
1 Dominating Licid
1 Duplicant
1 Empress Galina
1 Herald of Leshrac
1 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
1 Lim-Dul the Necromancer
1 Mistmeadow Witch
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
Spells
1 Acquire
1 Austere Command
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Brainstorm
1 Bribery
1 Commandeer
1 Condemn
1 Damnation
1 Gather Specimens
1 Knowledge Exploitation
1 Memory Plunder
1 Momentary Blink
1 Mortify
1 Opportunity
1 Path to Exile
1 Ponder
1 Rend Flesh
1 Telling Time
1 Twisted Justice
1 Unmake
1 Wrath of God
1 Confiscate
1 Control Magic
1 Copy Enchantment
1 Debtors' Knell
1 Followed Footsteps
1 Freed from the Real
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pemmin's Aura
1 Persuasion
1 Take Possession
Artifacts
1 Azorius Signet
1 Crystal Shard
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dimir Signet
1 Magewright's Stone
1 Mind's Eye
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Proteus Staff
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Spectral Searchlight
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
38 Lands (Doesn't really matter which ones)
Almost everything in the deck eigher steals or copies. I didn't include Beacon of Unrest because I only own one and it's in another deck.
Opponents who use a lot of CIP creatures aren't a huge problem. That's what Clone and it's variants are for. Along with Crystal Shard/Mistmeadow Witch/Momentary Blink you can usually abuse their CIP creatures better than they can.
If you want to do a mono blcok Shirei deck I'm sure there's one in the deck database sticky thread you can use as a base. A guy in my play group had one and it was pretty well built.
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
WRGUBScion of the Ur-DragonWRGUB
UChisei, Heart of OceansU
URJhoira of the GhituUR
BShirei, Shizo's CaretakerB
Erratic Portal, Crystal Shard, Puppet Strings, and Fatestitcher. Note all them do a great effect for very little like bouncing your CITP effect dudes, tapping your opponent's behemoth's, plus Fatestitcher can untap stuff and is GREAT with Gilded Lotus. If I were you, I'd definitely want to cut Ponder and Brainstorm and replace with heavy drawing spells like Ancestral Knowledge, Concentrate, Tidings, etc. 1 for 1s just aren't worth it in EDH in my opinion. Hanna, Ship's Navigator is also good to get back all your enchantments.
*Mayreturn*
I have some EDH cards and rare Magic basic lands (APAC, EURO, ARENA, etc) so message me if you're looking.
Number of members banned after I posted a BTR: 7
Looking for honest buyers, sellers, and traders.
CIP effects definitely work with Clone and its variants. You choose what to copy "as Clone comes into play". So,once it's in play it's already whatever it copied and any CIP triggers will happen. While in play there is no time when it is not what it is copying.
@jokalhaups: I agree that Brainstorm isn't very good in EDH. It has performed pertty poorly for me. The shuffle portion of Ponder has saved me many times though. I'm not ready to take it out quite yet. Hanna, Ship's Navigator is a great suggestion. I'm almost certain to loose some of my Control Magics and it would be nice to get them back.
One card I've beenthinking about adding is Synod Sanctum. It will allow me to get back anything I steal with my general after a Wrath. It feels like rubbing salt in an open wound, but it's also synergy and that's difficult to resist. Thoughts?
Vampires
:symw::symr: Boros Bushwhacker
EDH:
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Kagemaro, First to Suffer
Ashling the Pilgrim
Molimo, Maro-Sorcerer
:symr::symg: Stonebrow, Krosan Hero
:symu::symr: Jhoira of the Ghitu
:symb::symg: Savra, Queen of the Golgari
:symw::symu::symb: Merieke Ri Beret
:symw::symu::symb::symr::symg: Scion of the Ur-Dragon
Also wanted to suggest:
Envelope should be Forbid-counter anything again and again while filling up your graveyard?
Disenchant should be Dismantling Blow or Return to Dust (both are 2+ for 1)
Obelisk of Esper should be one of the following:
Gilded Lotus, Coalition Relic, or at least Darksteel Ingot
CoK dragons are also nice Hell's Caretaker targets... obviously Kokusho is banned, but Keiga and Yosei.
And where's your Mulldrifter with all this sacrifice and recursion?
*Mayreturn*
I have some EDH cards and rare Magic basic lands (APAC, EURO, ARENA, etc) so message me if you're looking.
Number of members banned after I posted a BTR: 7
Looking for honest buyers, sellers, and traders.
Bribery
Persuasion
Confiscate
Treachery
Helm of Possession