I think people are severely underestimating the power of Sadistic Sacrament. I've had people concede just by exiling their 3 finishers or other key cards.
There's only room for so many dedicated anti control/combo cards in the deck. Sacrament is essentially worthless against aggro. And Sludge/Echoes is probably better against control. Echoes is even ok against aggro if you can get them to topdeck mode with a safe amount of life. Sacrament is strictly a sb card against combo decks or control decks with few win conditions.
Not necessarily true, taking bloodbraids out of jund, or say rafiqs out of bant could be backbreaking.
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By my logic, if you buy a cup of coffee and someone peed in it, you get to complain and the person who peed in it should be fired. So unless you want to drink some pee coffee, you're on my side.
The basic idea was to add grim discovery and fetchlands to AxuxA's list. This necessitated removing the red splash. A green or white splash looked the best at this point for either path or pulse. I chose green and pulse since it hits planeswalkers, enchantments, and artifacts.
The basic idea is simple. Generate absurd amounts of card advantage through Grim Discovery. GD is just great, period. Against aggro there's the aforementioned Gatekeeper/Marauder trick. It also gets you 2 land drops if necessary through Pouncer. Needless to say, this deck is never short of land, and late game the useful spell density is rather high. Cycling Carabid over and over again is also a very nice option. (Imagine GD with the evoke creatures). 12 spot removal cards plus GD to get them back is great against aggro. Duress, Sludge, and Echoes for control. Consume Spirit is, of course, the kill.
This is only a preliminary list, but it has fared well so far. I'm not sure about the Sludges since there isn't a ton of swamps in the deck. Similarly, I've left tendrils out. One option would be to cut the pulses and forests for tendrils and swamps. Sorin probably belongs somewhere - at least a 1 of, and more creatures would also be nice to fuel the crypt, but I'm unsure what to cut.
I am gunna be helpful here and suggest the one card that makes this the broken version of Mbc.dec lol Lilliana Vess you are cycling all those creatures to the yard, so when you pop her big ability, you now haz loaded field lol, it has been working really well and if you pair it with a well timed Sorin it can just straight up win the game
I think I have enough removal. but It depends what deck will be played in our "club" (heh club...there are only 8-10 players in my citty :-D) Im sure 1 deck will be vamps, I think 1 will be some U(w) cotrol or time sieve, 1 RW aggro and maybe 1 soldiers. So I think i should put infest to SB or maybe to MD instead of something (doom blade maybe?)
sigh, the tutors slow the curve. but go ahead and test them, up the echoes to 2. and up the bloodwitch to 3, she really is an amazing win condition. my old build was similar to yours... minus the tutors. and it doesn't win fast enough without hitting her on 5, 6, or 7. especially if they path one of your goons on turn 3 then you really can cripple them with bringing her out on 4. same with mind sludge.
oh yeah, the calculations you mentioned earliar are not correct, you should still run fetch lands since you're not running the build that uses fleshbags and what not,
and umm, you'd be surprised how amazing consumed spirit is main decked.
i could post my list for a comparison if you want. i picked up everything for it today except 4 fetch lands, and have been testing it pretty rediculously. my tempo is rarely off game, and i only run 22 lands, as opposed to 24 or 26.
Thanks, I play 1 echoes because I have tutors so I dont need more of them.
About fetches: maybe I was wrong but I cant afford them so...Thats the main reason why I dont play them.
Consume spirit...Hm, I will think about it.
yeah but tutoring on 4 or 5 will really cause a pain for you, echoes isnt some giant ultra card that you wait for a full grave yard for,
i was playing against a valakut control. he bolted and burst lightninged my goons early game, which i baited him into doing by playing a turn 2 gate keeper since he runs little to no creatures, he also had popped both versions of his fetch lands, and his map. considering he had a turn 1 valakut which is optimal most of the time, i echoes him on 5 flat, and removed his burn except for earthquake. and his fetch lands and map. very few cards, but it ruined his game.
thats just one example. i understand about the fetch lands, i only need 4, ive had no money lately so it's pretty hard to come up with 50+ bucks. but as far as the tutors go, they are generally just a liability in your hand, depending on the match up.
if you want to run them, you could side them, with sadistic sacrement and therefor always be able to draw into/tutor for your sad-sacrement. and reck control. but umm even that is not the best ideas.
So far, this deck list swapping that Lilana for the third Bloodwitch has been working well for me.
I was worried that I might need the Doom Blades in the main, but it has yet to come up so far. I haven't played many other decks, but I apparently had no idea how awesome the Gatekeeper actually is. The 2-for-1s he gives me remind me of when people played Venser, Shaper Savant in a way.
...Mind Sludge is pure evil, and I think I wet myself every time I resolve it. Which reminds me--When someone plays Path to Exile on my creatures, I couldn't be happier, because it usually causes me to play a fourth turn Bloodwitch/Mind Sludge or a fifth turn Sorin.
My favorite part about this deck is how often before I sideboard that I have managed to delay a Luminarch Ascension until it was irrelevant, or I've managed to fight through it when it was active.
So far, the weakest card in the deck is Consume Spirit, but I have had a small share of wins that I wouldn't have been able to take without it.
So far, this deck list swapping that Lilana for the third Bloodwitch has been working well for me.
I was worried that I might need the Doom Blades in the main, but it has yet to come up so far. I haven't played many other decks, but I apparently had no idea how awesome the Gatekeeper actually is. The 2-for-1s he gives me remind me of when people played Venser, Shaper Savant in a way.
...Mind Sludge is pure evil, and I think I wet myself every time I resolve it. Which reminds me--When someone plays Path to Exile on my creatures, I couldn't be happier, because it usually causes me to play a fourth turn Bloodwitch/Mind Sludge or a fifth turn Sorin.
My favorite part about this deck is how often before I sideboard that I have managed to delay a Luminarch Ascension until it was irrelevant, or I've managed to fight through it when it was active.
So far, the weakest card in the deck is Consume Spirit, but I have had a small share of wins that I wouldn't have been able to take without it.
your build is pretty strong, i DO suggest doomblades main, not because i do it, but because it's speed and turn 2 hindering to any ramp deck that you didn't draw a disfigure in opening hand to is pretty amazing.
spirit isn't that strong of a card but so far it's always been helpful everytime i've drawn it. i'd reduce your copies to 2 instead of 3
yes, vess out for another bloodwitch is right. bloodwitch in the long run is more usefull than her in the end.
-1 disfigure
-1 spirit
-1 duress
+3 doomblades and side the extra duress.
also this is pretty important, i understand you don't have fetch lands, but if you do decide to run them, please main deck grim discovery, you mentioned how much you loved gatekeeper.
if you do decide to do that, +3 grim discovery, -2 castles and -1 mindsludge. i promise the curve will be really satisfying.
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here's another tweaked version of the MBC 2009 which I have been playtesting. It wins against midrange and aggro but has bad matchups with Sligh/RDW and control but gets better after sideboarding
This deck loses to Luminarch Ascension game one but after sideboarding 2 Pithing Needle and 4 Duress, it has now a good fighting chance.
The deck has problem dealing with fast decks like RDW/Sligh. Gatekeeper and Fleshbag are deadcards since RDW/Sligh are basically creatureless. Against Gobs and Elves, siding in Infest seals the deal.
I'm loving Sadistic Sacrament. It finishes up what Mind Sludge and Haunting Echoes do.
Sorin finds home in this deck because he is purely for control. He gets rid of small threats and finishes the game by himself. Liliana is a backup if when the board is clean and she's ready to call the cycler fatties.
Ravenous Trap is tech against Pyromancer Ascension and the pesky BLOODGHAST! Jeez, this creature is indeed a pest.
All in all this deck has HUGE potential to make it big in the meta. All it lacks is a mass sweeper like Damnation and Mutilate and its good to go. If only Corrupt is T2 then this deck is tier 1.
Any thoughts on beating Sligh/RDW? It is the only deck I have very bad matchups against with.
here's another tweaked version of the MBC 2009 which I have been playtesting. It wins against midrange and aggro but has bad matchups with Sligh/RDW and control but gets better after sideboarding
...
Any thoughts on beating Sligh/RDW? It is the only deck I have very bad matchups against with.
First, a couple of questions. How well do you fare against mill? Why 3/3 for gatekeepers and fleshbags? 4 Gatekeepers seems better to me. It seems like Haunting Echoes is tech against everything Ravenous Trap is tech against, and it's good for a variety of other matchups. Is the instant speed, 1 mana cheaper CC, and occasional trap ability paying off for you? Why not sign in blood? Btw, your sb has 16 cards.
For RDW, I'm not sure. Lifegain to stall until they run out of gas and echoes to take away their topdeck seems like a good strategy. Cheaper discard like blightning can help them run out of gas sooner.
Disfigure/Doomblade: There for mana dorks, Ball Lightnings, Hedron Crab and other aggro annoyance. I went for a 4/2 split as opposed to 3/3 because of the inability of Doom Blade to deal with black creatures. And while Doom Blades are useful for late game against bigger baddies that is accounted for with other removal. So they can given insurance against bigger baddies but not result in potentially too many dead cards.
Tendrils/Consume Spirit: There of course for bigger baddies and life gain. Again 4/2 split makes the most sense. With 2 Doom Blades can have 8 removal that can deal with larger threats.
Duress: Opted for 3 as this seems like the right number to deal with the spells aggro decks will be carrying (can't let that Honor of the Pure hit the board or nab that Vines latter in the game used to protect a threat) +1 in the sideboard for dealing with more spell oriented decks.
Mind Sludge: Again 3 seems right here with the draw of Sign in Blood.
Echoes: This is my choice over Bloodchief Ascension or Quest of the Gravelord. Seems like you need to make a choice amongst these three. Two of the three require you to cut somewhere else. The 5/5 zombie is nice but can be dealt with. The Ascension can be devastating as I find out yesterday in my release tourney. But it was paired with World Queller--a guaranteed 4 point swing every turn. Sure with the removal cards will likely be hitting the GY but putting damage will initially be sporadic and once you have control the Ascension seems unnecessary. Echoes can gut a deck and seems useful against red burn and mill decks--if you can get there. Yeah with only 2 chances are not good so may up this or put another in the sideboard (but only have 2 right now).
Sideboard choices:
Nothing here might be questionable except the Fleshbags. But I think these are better when white goes to their board for their Devout Lightcaster so out come Doomblades or potentially dealing with other problack furry animals trying to sneak through the bogs. Infests for aggro--need to be there for mid game Conqueror's Pledge or Aggro like Vamps.
What I choose to leave out: Liliana Vess Yeah her ultimate may be more devastating than Sorin's but her other abilities seem less useful. Her +1 can be useless if you have resolved a Mind Sludge. I would not put in Demonic Tutor so why would I want her for her -2 tutoring ability especially if I am trying to resolve her ultimate ability?
Fetches--I did score 2 in my Zenikar fat pack yesterday G/B and U/R and probably can trade the U/R for one of the other 2 fetches with black. However I know for certain a number of folks will be running mill decks where I play and I think it is far worse to lose 13 cards turn 1 playing a fetch than the marginal thinning. That and based on the simulations I have seen there is just little additional benefit to mana fixing.
I know they are working for mtngoat_to_the_red_zone and others but I have had long conversations about this with others and I do not think there is a definitive answer. So I will opt to not run them as I think any benefit is dwarfed by the potential devastaton the trap can have (this is a meta call). And there is no way to board them out. So unlike other matches you cannot do much to make things better post game 1 except try and resolve a Sacrament/Duress and not resolve a fetch land T1.
I am sorry if it was already mentioned, but I believe that this deck could use the vague synergy between Xathrid Demon and Bloodghast as a finisher. It may not be as reliable as some other creatures, but it does win the game usually if you get a swing or two in.
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I am sorry if it was already mentioned, but I believe that this deck could use the vague synergy between Xathrid Demon and Bloodghast as a finisher. It may not be as reliable as some other creatures, but it does win the game usually if you get a swing or two in.
What synergy? The only way the Demon has synergy is if you have a land every turn to bring back the Bloodghast--it is conditional synergy at best and there is no way you want to risk not being able to use your beater and seven life. EoT remove your Bloodghast--oops no creatures on board you take seven and tap your demon.
The Demon is not a better finisher than the Bloodwitch. The pro-white alone makes it a better finisher.
It looks really sub-par to me at the moment but I have been unable to do any testing. Does anyone know whether it is better to use fetches gargoyle castle or both???
I'll try and give a quick match summary, which I may improve upon later when my headache clears:
Round 1 vs. Bant Midrange Game 1 - I don't remember exactly what happened, but I had enough removal so that he never got anything to stick, and eventually my creatures got through. Game 2 - Much of the same, except my opponent took a questionable hand and had mana issues. By the time he could play anything, I was at 5+ lands and eventually landed a Sorin, which in combination with some Black Knights took the game away. Record: 2-0 (1-0 Overall)
Round 2 vs. Mono-White (Midrange?) Game 1 - This was a hard-fought battle. Although the player across the table maindecks 4 White Knight, I felt pretty confident going into the match that at the very least, I'd take the round after boarding. Game 1 was close. He landed a Luminarch Ascension and an Elspeth, both of which I was constantly worrying about. I managed to get him low and never let him get his Ascension to 4, but I wound up drawing into a ridiculous number of lands that game, and perhaps would have won with just a little gas, but who knows. Game 2 - I boarded in heavily for this one. However, there wasn't much to happen because of it. I kept a two-land hand, and never saw another one until after the game was over. My opponent wasn't doing much better landwise, but even a third land would have probably let me survive and possibly win. I wound up having 3 Gatekeepers, a Nighthawk, and 3 Bloodwitches having been drawn that game, but all I could do was play the Gatekeepers without kicker, which was about useless since he had a White Knight turn two. Record: 0-2 (1-1 Overall)
Round 3 vs. Mono-White (again, yay) Game 1 - Duress your Day of Judgment, Black Knight, Black Knight, kill your Baneslayer, swing a bunch, Bloodwitch, swing a bunch, win. Game 2 - See Game 1. I honestly felt bad, because while postboard I do run a good solid 8 pro-white critters, they just all came out in such rapid succession that it was demoralizing for my opponent. Record: 2-0 (2-1 Overall)
Round 4 vs. Naya Zoo Game 1 - This was my girlfriend piloting her Naya Zoo list, which was slightly suboptimal (we didn't have all the fetches, Scute Mob, and Goblin Guide that we wanted). Nevertheless, it's an uphill battle for both of us, with both of us praying not to get unnecessary lands in the later game. This first game was played out the usual way, with me spending forever draining her hand of resources and eventually getting there with a Bloodwitch. Game 2 - Everything played out as normal, but eventually my hand was low and I could draw nothing but land. At this point, Sara tutored for a Scute Mob and I had no answer to it until it was a 13/13 and it didn't matter because I was dead anyway. Game 3 - I had everything under control this time. It wasn't easy, but the game played out and eventually ended in my favor. Record: 2-1 (3-1 Overall)
Semifinals vs. Mono-White from Round 3 Game 1 - This was basically like it always seems to be against white decks. Game 2 - This time things got tough. I kept a slower than normal hand and my opponent laid a turn 2 (take note that I'm on the draw) Luminarch Ascension. I then proceeded to have a hard time hitting him, and finally when he was at a reasonably low life total, he gets his fourth counter. I basically do what I can to kill him as quickly as possible, and wind up with him at just over a swing away, and with me at definitely a swing away, since he had some ridiculous amount of angel tokens on the field. I draw my card, which was one of four necessary to win the game, swing, and play my Sorin Markov, using his first ability to give me the win (Hideous End would have also done the trick). Match win 2-0, advance to Finals
Finals vs. Spanish Inquisition Control Game 1 - I somehow dodged this guy in the Swiss, since everyone going into Round 4 had similar records. This was honestly the matchup I was most worried about from the decks I saw today (there was a Warp World deck there as well, but it didn't do well enough to have me worried). This first game was basically the same anti-aggro strategy vs. another, and it took FOREVER with me on the offensive for most of the game. However, he landed an Obelisk of Alara that kept him in the game for what seemed like forever, and I just couldn't draw the gas every turn that I needed to put him in his grave. Game 2 - These games all took so freaking long that I can't remember exactly what happened in which game, but after boarding I felt a little more confident. I'm pretty sure this was the game where I landed Bloodwitch a couple of times in a row, and he was having to play Fallout AND Pyroclasm to get rid of one. Either way, it was tough. This entire round was ridiculous. Game 3 - We were constantly at odds, and eventually I guess I was able this time to get his board clear for my Zombie Giant token to push through what it needed. Either way, all of these games were close and I definitely will try to prepare for this matchup a little better in the future. Match win 2-1
I definitely enjoyed playing this one today, as the deck underwent some major changes with this new set coming in and I was glad to learn what worked and what didn't work.
First of all, MBC is viable as of right now, I think. The only problem is how to make sure you can handle the adversity of pro-black creatures and the control vs control matches. The best thing about these vampire creatures is that they allow MBC to curve.
My rare Mind Shatters got replaced by the uncommon, Mind Sludge last night, and I'm glad I remembered to do it. There's nothing more satisfying than spending one card to eliminate five on turn five. I'm running 2 in the MD, and I think this is probably enough. The one in the board gets boarded in against control, but I'm debating on trying out Scepter of Fugue again.
Infest seems weak to me. Maybe it's because of all the spot removal that I run, but I feel like I can usually deal with X/2s. I have 4 MD guys with First Strike, Gatekeepers that can trade to get rid of another creature, and a 2/3 that even has Deathtouch.
Ob Nixilis was frequently boarded out, as was Duress. I think Duress will probably still be worth the maindeck spot, since usually aggro and control decks rebalance themselves as people come up with good ideas for control. Ob, I feel, is worse than both Sorin and Bloodwitch. Speaking of, Sorin is good in the maindeck, and I need another one so I can throw him in.
Quest for the Gravelord is also amazing. I kill so many creatures anyway, and it's an incredible post-sweeper card.
And lastly, I really want card draw/deck thinning. My deck stumbles when it gets flooded, and I think I may introduce fetches in order to keep the gas coming in. I'm pretty sure that Sign in Blood is a good card for the deck, and unfortunately the only card I could see removing for it is Duress. Everything else seems too relevant.
It looks really sub-par to me at the moment but I have been unable to do any testing. Does anyone know whether it is better to use fetches gargoyle castle or both???
Id suggest running at least 4 fetches and 0 castles. You want every land to be able to produce black.
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Only spiderboy4 at High~Light could do it like this! Thanks spidey!
Id suggest running at least 4 fetches and 0 castles. You want every land to be able to produce black.
I really have to disagree here. Gargoyle Castle is amazing in this deck, and you wouldn't run more than two anyway. 2 Castles out of 25 lands is still going to make it unlikely that you hit both in one game, let alone the early game.
I really have to disagree here. Gargoyle Castle is amazing in this deck, and you wouldn't run more than two anyway. 2 Castles out of 25 lands is still going to make it unlikely that you hit both in one game, let alone the early game.
I have to concede here to my better. Tbh I havent tested MBC, just Vamp Aggro, which was what I was basing my argument off of. Your reasoning was polite and seemed logical. thanks haha thats a rarity on forums. How has testing gone for you?
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Only spiderboy4 at High~Light could do it like this! Thanks spidey!
I really have to disagree here. Gargoyle Castle is amazing in this deck, and you wouldn't run more than two anyway. 2 Castles out of 25 lands is still going to make it unlikely that you hit both in one game, let alone the early game.
Could we see the land base that you used for your deck too please? I figure that Grim Discovery looks to be a source of CA with citb and sack/gargoyle lands. This is an idea that i'd like to try out:
The basic idea is to use Grim Discovery to abuse creatures like Tidehollow and the gatekeeper. Getting Ob Nixilis and a fetch land is also damaging in theory.
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Found myself agreeing with most of this post about Cavern of souls and countermagic.
My landbase was literally just 24 Swamps and one Gargoyle Castle. However, I only have one Gargoyle Castle. My hope is to up that to two, and run I guess a playset of one of the fetches for black.
In regards to Grim Discovery, I think that the card definitely holds promise. If you aren't running Ob Nixilis, the Fallen as a beatstick, then land drops aren't as important. Enter Soul Stair Expedition. Rather than a sorcery speed spell that only grants one creature and possibly another if you got a Gargoyle Castle as well, I think the expedition is better because you can lay it early, get it to three counters and just sit on it. It's activated ability is playable at your opponent's end of turn, and it would allow for recursion of the deck's new MVP (as far as I'm concerned): Edict Ogre.
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There's only room for so many dedicated anti control/combo cards in the deck. Sacrament is essentially worthless against aggro. And Sludge/Echoes is probably better against control. Echoes is even ok against aggro if you can get them to topdeck mode with a safe amount of life. Sacrament is strictly a sb card against combo decks or control decks with few win conditions.
By my logic, if you buy a cup of coffee and someone peed in it, you get to complain and the person who peed in it should be fired. So unless you want to drink some pee coffee, you're on my side.
I am gunna be helpful here and suggest the one card that makes this the broken version of Mbc.dec lol Lilliana Vess you are cycling all those creatures to the yard, so when you pop her big ability, you now haz loaded field lol, it has been working really well and if you pair it with a well timed Sorin it can just straight up win the game
sigh, the tutors slow the curve. but go ahead and test them, up the echoes to 2. and up the bloodwitch to 3, she really is an amazing win condition. my old build was similar to yours... minus the tutors. and it doesn't win fast enough without hitting her on 5, 6, or 7. especially if they path one of your goons on turn 3 then you really can cripple them with bringing her out on 4. same with mind sludge.
oh yeah, the calculations you mentioned earliar are not correct, you should still run fetch lands since you're not running the build that uses fleshbags and what not,
and umm, you'd be surprised how amazing consumed spirit is main decked.
i could post my list for a comparison if you want. i picked up everything for it today except 4 fetch lands, and have been testing it pretty rediculously. my tempo is rarely off game, and i only run 22 lands, as opposed to 24 or 26.
yeah but tutoring on 4 or 5 will really cause a pain for you, echoes isnt some giant ultra card that you wait for a full grave yard for,
i was playing against a valakut control. he bolted and burst lightninged my goons early game, which i baited him into doing by playing a turn 2 gate keeper since he runs little to no creatures, he also had popped both versions of his fetch lands, and his map. considering he had a turn 1 valakut which is optimal most of the time, i echoes him on 5 flat, and removed his burn except for earthquake. and his fetch lands and map. very few cards, but it ruined his game.
thats just one example. i understand about the fetch lands, i only need 4, ive had no money lately so it's pretty hard to come up with 50+ bucks. but as far as the tutors go, they are generally just a liability in your hand, depending on the match up.
if you want to run them, you could side them, with sadistic sacrement and therefor always be able to draw into/tutor for your sad-sacrement. and reck control. but umm even that is not the best ideas.
So far, this deck list swapping that Lilana for the third Bloodwitch has been working well for me.
I was worried that I might need the Doom Blades in the main, but it has yet to come up so far. I haven't played many other decks, but I apparently had no idea how awesome the Gatekeeper actually is. The 2-for-1s he gives me remind me of when people played Venser, Shaper Savant in a way.
...Mind Sludge is pure evil, and I think I wet myself every time I resolve it. Which reminds me--When someone plays Path to Exile on my creatures, I couldn't be happier, because it usually causes me to play a fourth turn Bloodwitch/Mind Sludge or a fifth turn Sorin.
My favorite part about this deck is how often before I sideboard that I have managed to delay a Luminarch Ascension until it was irrelevant, or I've managed to fight through it when it was active.
So far, the weakest card in the deck is Consume Spirit, but I have had a small share of wins that I wouldn't have been able to take without it.
your build is pretty strong, i DO suggest doomblades main, not because i do it, but because it's speed and turn 2 hindering to any ramp deck that you didn't draw a disfigure in opening hand to is pretty amazing.
spirit isn't that strong of a card but so far it's always been helpful everytime i've drawn it. i'd reduce your copies to 2 instead of 3
yes, vess out for another bloodwitch is right. bloodwitch in the long run is more usefull than her in the end.
-1 disfigure
-1 spirit
-1 duress
+3 doomblades and side the extra duress.
also this is pretty important, i understand you don't have fetch lands, but if you do decide to run them, please main deck grim discovery, you mentioned how much you loved gatekeeper.
if you do decide to do that, +3 grim discovery, -2 castles and -1 mindsludge. i promise the curve will be really satisfying.
I'd like to see it.
LOL:
4x sign in blood
3x duress
3x disfigure
3x doom blade
3x tendrils of corruption
3x grim discovery
2x bloodchief ascension
2x haunting echoes
2x consume spirit
2x mind sludge
2x sorin markov
4x gatekeeper of malakir
3x vampire nighthawk
3x malakir bloodwitch
lands:
14x swamp
4x marsh flats
4x verdant catacombs
the only change i'm considering making right now is adding a 4th tendrils and/or nighthawk.
yes, the curve does work with 22 lands, and it is all because of the deck thinning and grim discovery.
4 Malikir Bloodwitch
4 Nyxathid
3 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
Other Spells:24
4 Infest
4 Duress
4 Mind sludge
4 Sign in blood
4 Doom blade
4 Tendrils of corruption
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
17 Swamp
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MBC 2009
17 Swamp
2 Mountain
3 Crypt of Agadeem
Creatures
4 Igneous Pouncer
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Viscera Dragger
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Terminate
4 Diabolic Tutor
2 Mind Sludge
2 Sadistic Sacrament
2 Consume Spirit
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Haunting Echoes
1 Mind Sludge
1 Consume Spirit
1 Ravenous Trap
4 Infest
4 Duress
2 Pithing Needle
1 Earthquake
1 Banefire
This deck loses to Luminarch Ascension game one but after sideboarding 2 Pithing Needle and 4 Duress, it has now a good fighting chance.
The deck has problem dealing with fast decks like RDW/Sligh. Gatekeeper and Fleshbag are deadcards since RDW/Sligh are basically creatureless. Against Gobs and Elves, siding in Infest seals the deal.
I'm loving Sadistic Sacrament. It finishes up what Mind Sludge and Haunting Echoes do.
Sorin finds home in this deck because he is purely for control. He gets rid of small threats and finishes the game by himself. Liliana is a backup if when the board is clean and she's ready to call the cycler fatties.
Ravenous Trap is tech against Pyromancer Ascension and the pesky BLOODGHAST! Jeez, this creature is indeed a pest.
All in all this deck has HUGE potential to make it big in the meta. All it lacks is a mass sweeper like Damnation and Mutilate and its good to go. If only Corrupt is T2 then this deck is tier 1.
Any thoughts on beating Sligh/RDW? It is the only deck I have very bad matchups against with.
4 gatekeeper of malakir
2 malakir bloodwitch
4 sign in blood
4 tendrils of coruption
3 infest
3 consume spirit
2 duress
3 armillary sphere
2 mind sludge
1 haunting echoes
1 sorin markov
25 swamp
the thing is that it does goo against aggro but i want to fit 4 disfigure and 1 duress any thoughts
-Standard-
GBGlissa the traitorBG
N/A
GCombo ElvesG
First, a couple of questions. How well do you fare against mill? Why 3/3 for gatekeepers and fleshbags? 4 Gatekeepers seems better to me. It seems like Haunting Echoes is tech against everything Ravenous Trap is tech against, and it's good for a variety of other matchups. Is the instant speed, 1 mana cheaper CC, and occasional trap ability paying off for you? Why not sign in blood? Btw, your sb has 16 cards.
For RDW, I'm not sure. Lifegain to stall until they run out of gas and echoes to take away their topdeck seems like a good strategy. Cheaper discard like blightning can help them run out of gas sooner.
4x Vampire Nighthawk
2x Malakir Bloodwitch
4x Disfigure
4x Duress
4x Doomblade
4x Sign in Blood
4x Tendrils of Corruption
3x Quest for the Gravelord
3x Mind Sludge
02x Gargoyle Castle
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Sign in Blood
4 Disfigure
3 Duress
3 Mind Sludge
2 Doom Blade
2 Sorin Markov
2 Consume Spirit
2 Haunting Echose
22 Swamp
2 Gargoyle Castle
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Infest
3 Sadistic Sacrament
1 Duress
3 Fleshbag Marauder
Rationale for Choices:
Disfigure/Doomblade: There for mana dorks, Ball Lightnings, Hedron Crab and other aggro annoyance. I went for a 4/2 split as opposed to 3/3 because of the inability of Doom Blade to deal with black creatures. And while Doom Blades are useful for late game against bigger baddies that is accounted for with other removal. So they can given insurance against bigger baddies but not result in potentially too many dead cards.
Tendrils/Consume Spirit: There of course for bigger baddies and life gain. Again 4/2 split makes the most sense. With 2 Doom Blades can have 8 removal that can deal with larger threats.
Duress: Opted for 3 as this seems like the right number to deal with the spells aggro decks will be carrying (can't let that Honor of the Pure hit the board or nab that Vines latter in the game used to protect a threat) +1 in the sideboard for dealing with more spell oriented decks.
Mind Sludge: Again 3 seems right here with the draw of Sign in Blood.
Echoes: This is my choice over Bloodchief Ascension or Quest of the Gravelord. Seems like you need to make a choice amongst these three. Two of the three require you to cut somewhere else. The 5/5 zombie is nice but can be dealt with. The Ascension can be devastating as I find out yesterday in my release tourney. But it was paired with World Queller--a guaranteed 4 point swing every turn. Sure with the removal cards will likely be hitting the GY but putting damage will initially be sporadic and once you have control the Ascension seems unnecessary. Echoes can gut a deck and seems useful against red burn and mill decks--if you can get there. Yeah with only 2 chances are not good so may up this or put another in the sideboard (but only have 2 right now).
Sideboard choices:
Nothing here might be questionable except the Fleshbags. But I think these are better when white goes to their board for their Devout Lightcaster so out come Doomblades or potentially dealing with other problack furry animals trying to sneak through the bogs. Infests for aggro--need to be there for mid game Conqueror's Pledge or Aggro like Vamps.
What I choose to leave out:
Liliana Vess Yeah her ultimate may be more devastating than Sorin's but her other abilities seem less useful. Her +1 can be useless if you have resolved a Mind Sludge. I would not put in Demonic Tutor so why would I want her for her -2 tutoring ability especially if I am trying to resolve her ultimate ability?
Fetches--I did score 2 in my Zenikar fat pack yesterday G/B and U/R and probably can trade the U/R for one of the other 2 fetches with black. However I know for certain a number of folks will be running mill decks where I play and I think it is far worse to lose 13 cards turn 1 playing a fetch than the marginal thinning. That and based on the simulations I have seen there is just little additional benefit to mana fixing.
I know they are working for mtngoat_to_the_red_zone and others but I have had long conversations about this with others and I do not think there is a definitive answer. So I will opt to not run them as I think any benefit is dwarfed by the potential devastaton the trap can have (this is a meta call). And there is no way to board them out. So unlike other matches you cannot do much to make things better post game 1 except try and resolve a Sacrament/Duress and not resolve a fetch land T1.
Pride is a powerful tool; it makes us fight harder when we are weak as does it cut us down while we are at our prime.
If you are a player in the Lancaster, PA area or go to school at Millersville University there is a Magic Club that holds all kinds of events! Checkout our Facebook Page or message me, Austin Rittle! http://www.facebook.com/groups/170267396386812/
What synergy? The only way the Demon has synergy is if you have a land every turn to bring back the Bloodghast--it is conditional synergy at best and there is no way you want to risk not being able to use your beater and seven life. EoT remove your Bloodghast--oops no creatures on board you take seven and tap your demon.
The Demon is not a better finisher than the Bloodwitch. The pro-white alone makes it a better finisher.
4 gatekeeper of malakir
4 vampire nighthawk
4 malakir bloodwitch
4 quest for the gravelord
4 doom blade
4 tendrils of corruption
3 sorin markov
4 deathmark
2 vampire hexmage
4 infest
2 mind sludge
It looks really sub-par to me at the moment but I have been unable to do any testing. Does anyone know whether it is better to use fetches gargoyle castle or both???
4 Black Knight
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Tendrils of Corruption
4 Doom Blade
3 Hideous End
Discard:
3 Duress
2 Mind Sludge
4 Quest for the Gravelord
3 Deathmark
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Infest
1 Mind Sludge
1 Sorin Markov
2 Malakir Bloodwitch
Round 1 vs. Bant Midrange
Game 1 - I don't remember exactly what happened, but I had enough removal so that he never got anything to stick, and eventually my creatures got through.
Game 2 - Much of the same, except my opponent took a questionable hand and had mana issues. By the time he could play anything, I was at 5+ lands and eventually landed a Sorin, which in combination with some Black Knights took the game away.
Record: 2-0 (1-0 Overall)
Round 2 vs. Mono-White (Midrange?)
Game 1 - This was a hard-fought battle. Although the player across the table maindecks 4 White Knight, I felt pretty confident going into the match that at the very least, I'd take the round after boarding. Game 1 was close. He landed a Luminarch Ascension and an Elspeth, both of which I was constantly worrying about. I managed to get him low and never let him get his Ascension to 4, but I wound up drawing into a ridiculous number of lands that game, and perhaps would have won with just a little gas, but who knows.
Game 2 - I boarded in heavily for this one. However, there wasn't much to happen because of it. I kept a two-land hand, and never saw another one until after the game was over. My opponent wasn't doing much better landwise, but even a third land would have probably let me survive and possibly win. I wound up having 3 Gatekeepers, a Nighthawk, and 3 Bloodwitches having been drawn that game, but all I could do was play the Gatekeepers without kicker, which was about useless since he had a White Knight turn two.
Record: 0-2 (1-1 Overall)
Round 3 vs. Mono-White (again, yay)
Game 1 - Duress your Day of Judgment, Black Knight, Black Knight, kill your Baneslayer, swing a bunch, Bloodwitch, swing a bunch, win.
Game 2 - See Game 1. I honestly felt bad, because while postboard I do run a good solid 8 pro-white critters, they just all came out in such rapid succession that it was demoralizing for my opponent.
Record: 2-0 (2-1 Overall)
Round 4 vs. Naya Zoo
Game 1 - This was my girlfriend piloting her Naya Zoo list, which was slightly suboptimal (we didn't have all the fetches, Scute Mob, and Goblin Guide that we wanted). Nevertheless, it's an uphill battle for both of us, with both of us praying not to get unnecessary lands in the later game. This first game was played out the usual way, with me spending forever draining her hand of resources and eventually getting there with a Bloodwitch.
Game 2 - Everything played out as normal, but eventually my hand was low and I could draw nothing but land. At this point, Sara tutored for a Scute Mob and I had no answer to it until it was a 13/13 and it didn't matter because I was dead anyway.
Game 3 - I had everything under control this time. It wasn't easy, but the game played out and eventually ended in my favor.
Record: 2-1 (3-1 Overall)
Semifinals vs. Mono-White from Round 3
Game 1 - This was basically like it always seems to be against white decks.
Game 2 - This time things got tough. I kept a slower than normal hand and my opponent laid a turn 2 (take note that I'm on the draw) Luminarch Ascension. I then proceeded to have a hard time hitting him, and finally when he was at a reasonably low life total, he gets his fourth counter. I basically do what I can to kill him as quickly as possible, and wind up with him at just over a swing away, and with me at definitely a swing away, since he had some ridiculous amount of angel tokens on the field. I draw my card, which was one of four necessary to win the game, swing, and play my Sorin Markov, using his first ability to give me the win (Hideous End would have also done the trick).
Match win 2-0, advance to Finals
Finals vs. Spanish Inquisition Control
Game 1 - I somehow dodged this guy in the Swiss, since everyone going into Round 4 had similar records. This was honestly the matchup I was most worried about from the decks I saw today (there was a Warp World deck there as well, but it didn't do well enough to have me worried). This first game was basically the same anti-aggro strategy vs. another, and it took FOREVER with me on the offensive for most of the game. However, he landed an Obelisk of Alara that kept him in the game for what seemed like forever, and I just couldn't draw the gas every turn that I needed to put him in his grave.
Game 2 - These games all took so freaking long that I can't remember exactly what happened in which game, but after boarding I felt a little more confident. I'm pretty sure this was the game where I landed Bloodwitch a couple of times in a row, and he was having to play Fallout AND Pyroclasm to get rid of one. Either way, it was tough. This entire round was ridiculous.
Game 3 - We were constantly at odds, and eventually I guess I was able this time to get his board clear for my Zombie Giant token to push through what it needed. Either way, all of these games were close and I definitely will try to prepare for this matchup a little better in the future.
Match win 2-1
I definitely enjoyed playing this one today, as the deck underwent some major changes with this new set coming in and I was glad to learn what worked and what didn't work.
First of all, MBC is viable as of right now, I think. The only problem is how to make sure you can handle the adversity of pro-black creatures and the control vs control matches. The best thing about these vampire creatures is that they allow MBC to curve.
My rare Mind Shatters got replaced by the uncommon, Mind Sludge last night, and I'm glad I remembered to do it. There's nothing more satisfying than spending one card to eliminate five on turn five. I'm running 2 in the MD, and I think this is probably enough. The one in the board gets boarded in against control, but I'm debating on trying out Scepter of Fugue again.
Infest seems weak to me. Maybe it's because of all the spot removal that I run, but I feel like I can usually deal with X/2s. I have 4 MD guys with First Strike, Gatekeepers that can trade to get rid of another creature, and a 2/3 that even has Deathtouch.
Ob Nixilis was frequently boarded out, as was Duress. I think Duress will probably still be worth the maindeck spot, since usually aggro and control decks rebalance themselves as people come up with good ideas for control. Ob, I feel, is worse than both Sorin and Bloodwitch. Speaking of, Sorin is good in the maindeck, and I need another one so I can throw him in.
Quest for the Gravelord is also amazing. I kill so many creatures anyway, and it's an incredible post-sweeper card.
And lastly, I really want card draw/deck thinning. My deck stumbles when it gets flooded, and I think I may introduce fetches in order to keep the gas coming in. I'm pretty sure that Sign in Blood is a good card for the deck, and unfortunately the only card I could see removing for it is Duress. Everything else seems too relevant.
Anyway, that's my story.
Id suggest running at least 4 fetches and 0 castles. You want every land to be able to produce black.
Only spiderboy4 at High~Light could do it like this! Thanks spidey!
I really have to disagree here. Gargoyle Castle is amazing in this deck, and you wouldn't run more than two anyway. 2 Castles out of 25 lands is still going to make it unlikely that you hit both in one game, let alone the early game.
I have to concede here to my better. Tbh I havent tested MBC, just Vamp Aggro, which was what I was basing my argument off of. Your reasoning was polite and seemed logical. thanks haha thats a rarity on forums. How has testing gone for you?
Only spiderboy4 at High~Light could do it like this! Thanks spidey!
Could we see the land base that you used for your deck too please? I figure that Grim Discovery looks to be a source of CA with citb and sack/gargoyle lands. This is an idea that i'd like to try out:
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
2 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
4 Sign in Blood
4 Grim Discovery
4 Duress
2 Mind Sludge
3 Path to Exile
3 Doom Blade
15 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
3 Gargoyle Castle
The basic idea is to use Grim Discovery to abuse creatures like Tidehollow and the gatekeeper. Getting Ob Nixilis and a fetch land is also damaging in theory.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10332184&postcount=124
In regards to Grim Discovery, I think that the card definitely holds promise. If you aren't running Ob Nixilis, the Fallen as a beatstick, then land drops aren't as important. Enter Soul Stair Expedition. Rather than a sorcery speed spell that only grants one creature and possibly another if you got a Gargoyle Castle as well, I think the expedition is better because you can lay it early, get it to three counters and just sit on it. It's activated ability is playable at your opponent's end of turn, and it would allow for recursion of the deck's new MVP (as far as I'm concerned): Edict Ogre.