@Buckshot: I used to run Hex mage in the side and Blood Witch main, but the meta changed in my area, and I don't need to fear white as much, but Planes walkers are everywhere. So yeah, just a meta call between those two.
@jrussell: I'm in love with Thought Hemorrhage, it does what it's supposed to do, it hits the hand and grave, and it uses red, and we use red, so it can go in the deck.
I thought wizards was going to stop the "real world" feel. Thats why Grizzly Bears was changed to Runeclaw Bear. Diminsh is awsome but quoting Alice's Adventures in Wonderland....what? Oh well.
I've never had a problem with jund, just beat them down sensless! But i've never had a problem with it, once nocturnus sticks, its game over. Besides blightning them, im sure they'd love a taste of their own medicine, and keep your 2 bloodghasts to discard when they do lol
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If you see someone playing a control deck, the following strategy is considered acceptable: 1) Slowly reach upward 2) Grab your opponent firmly by the throat 3) Squeeze 4) ???? 5) Profit...and a fountain of red Kool Aid!!!
I'm starting to think we have to fit tectonic edge somewhere in the 75 of this deck.
Yea, it's needed in the world of Jund and man lands. I run 2x in the main and another in the SB. It's doable but the mana is still a slight issue with this deck.
To the conversation about whether the red splash helps vs. Jund, I believe that it does but I've still been losing games post-board. They bring in stag and ruinblaster and that make it tough. I've yet to lose a pre-boarded game though with the red splash. If I can figure out a way to not have to mulligan to 5 or get hit by double/triple blightning games 2 and 3, I'd be money
Sideboard includes Duress and Thought Hemorrhage for primarily control matchups, Earthquake for WW matchups, and Tectonic Edge for Jund, Naya, and Junk. Gonna take this to FNM and see how it performs.
this is what i`m currentli running I droped the bloodghasts because lets be honnest you allways side him out anywhay so I`m playing with the idea that I`m not going to play him at all.
this deck kicks ass of jund first game and after side its even better when I side out bloodwitches and side in ruinblasters.
Can we see the sideboard?
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If you see someone playing a control deck, the following strategy is considered acceptable: 1) Slowly reach upward 2) Grab your opponent firmly by the throat 3) Squeeze 4) ???? 5) Profit...and a fountain of red Kool Aid!!!
With 4 Bolts, 4 Gatekeepers, and 3 Quakes, Stag doesn't pose a threat to me.
Have you made any changes to your deck for his week's FNM, JRussell?
Just the changes I talked about making after the game day. I removed the 2 sign in blood and added 2 grim discovery but I'm not sold on it yet. I also removed a marsh flats and a swamp and added 2 terramorphic expanse as a way to fetch red or black. Mana seems to be running better because of this and I'm never without red now. I still feel like I'm getting too little mana sometimes so I'm considering adding another swamp or terramorphic and going up to 61, which I don't like doing but sometimes it's correct. I really want 23.5 land and this is the best way to accomplish this (or so some of the pros say).
I have been playing red splash vampires since ZDK, but I have noticed that once was not even a blip on our radar, kor firewalker can be a bit annoying just sitting there and gaining life. I agree that the removal gets an upgrade whether you are playing bolt, terminate, blast, slave of bolas, but none of it can hit the firewalker you just might see against UW control, so urge to feed certainly has a place.
Some Variatons im testing:
4x Smother in SB vs 4x Doomblade
3/1 SiB & Mind Rot in MB Vs 4x Sign in blood
I have been playing MBVamps since the Zen Pre-release. (yeah i pretty much had the deck built before the set was out =D) And i just recently switched to RBVamps. Personally, I believe RBVamps is the stronger list. Why?
Terminate Vs Disfigure/Urge To feed/Smother/Doom Blade
- Terminate is just by far the best removal spell. Possibly even the best in standard (arguably vs Path), and with access to red mana, we get this. If you see even one of the red mana sources in your deck, suddenly Baneslayer, KoTr, Leatherback Baloth, Bloodwitch, and other fattier arent as big of a problem. Considering Disfigure, or urge couldnt save you against a BSA, I believe this is a major improvement.
Blightning Vs Gatekeeper of Malakir (In my deck I dont play Keeper, most RBVamps do)
-To compare these two, you have to look at what is the better 2 for 1. First off, Gatekeeper has the potential for some MASSIVE game swings if your on the play. T2 Hexmage, T3 Gatekeeper, T4 Gatekeeper, T5 Nocturnus is pretty much GG vs just about any aggro deck. But, Gatekeeper is also weak against alot of decks too. More namely, Jund (Goblin tokens/Thrinax), Weenie decks, Token decks, Etc. Not to mention, at the end of the day, its just a 2/2.. Then you see blightning, 2, 3 damage and 2 discard. Now, why I believe Blightning is better is that, it is more relevent vs ALL matchups. If your on the play, and you hit jund first with a blightning, thier going to be in a WORLD of hurt if they dont follow up with one of thier own. Not to mention against RDW, Blightning is exeptional, they lose lots of fuel and take 3? Yes Please. Against control Blightning is clearly the better card (arguably you could say gatekeeper is better vs Shroud.Dec, but personally I still prefer Blightning). So Basically if your deciding between Mono B and RB, its Grizzlybear/Edict vs Bolt/Mind rot. Your call on what is better as they are both exeptionally good cards.
Last but not least, Tendrils of corruption vs Bituminous Blast
- Lets face it, when switching to RB from Mono B, tendrils is HARD to let go of. Tendrils is an amazing card. 4+ damage, & 4+ life gain for 4? Great.. But, why would you want to gain some life and stall when you can use bitblast to go on the offensive? Here are some possibilities.
From worst to best going down..: Bitblast --> Highborn (Ok, so this is probly cascade at its worst, unless of course your opponent is at low life, then this is good =D) Bitblast --> Hexmage (Kill a creature and a jace? Oh yes..) Bitblast --> SigninBlood (Ok. 3-for-1, not bad.) Bitblast --> Nighthawk (Kill a creature.. Get a deathtoucher? Wow!) Bitblast --> Terminate (A 2-for-1 At its finest) Bitblast --> Blightning (Ok, so 3-for-1 + 3 damage.. Can you say insanely good? Not to mention with the rise of Jace, this can possibly be a 4-for-1 if they have a PW with 3>= Counters on it.. This is the second best play in standard right now, right after BBE-->Blightning) Bitblast --> Nocturnus (Ok.. So Destroy a creature, get a 3/3 that can boost my entire team? This is where its at)
So as you can see, Bit blast makes for some insane plays. Not convinced yet? What if i told you that if you dont have a black card on top.. Cascade can give you a second chance. Forgot about that eh? =) Trust me, it wins games. I promise.
So overall, I believe the addition of red is much better for vampires. All of your spells(Exept Terminate) become 2+-for-1's, which is what Jund uses to be soo powerful. You get a bit more Controlling with the addition of Blightning and better removal, while at the same time, you get more aggro-y with the addition of blightning. Overall, the card advantage alone wins games, and when you look at the fact that most vampires are just amazing, you can see that this redblack vamps an amazing deck and if your playing Mono black vamps, I would definately suggest even giving the addition of red a shot!
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Its much better to face these kinds of things, with a sense of poise and rationality. My Decks Standard
:symb::symr:Blightpyres:symr::symb:
:symu::symb::symw:EsperLockdown:symw::symb::symu:
:symb::symg:Hellcarver-Trap Combo:symg::symb:
Nogood, what have you been testing against, and what are the results? My biggest concern ATM is UW Control (either Chapin's version or Shroud.dec) since Jund is rarely a problem for me anymore.
Any reason for the 2/1 split between Earthquake and Infest? The only thing that comes to mind is Emeria Angel tokens. I personally prefer Earthquake, since my creatures can evade it.
Nogood, what have you been testing against, and what are the results? My biggest concern ATM is UW Control (either Chapin's version or Shroud.dec) since Jund is rarely a problem for me anymore.
I've pretty much been testing online, the decks I play against IRL aren't anything to be notable, but personally I find UW control to be one of the easiest matchups.
Against UW control, we have several amazing cards.
Sign in blood
Blightning
Kalastria Highborn
Mind Rot (if you play it)
Vampire hexmage (Jace-be-gone!)
Thought hemorrhage
Duress
Lavaclaw Reaches
When I sideboard against UW (And most controls) it looks pretty much like this.
-4 Terminate
-4 Bituminous Blast
+2 Mind Rot (6 discard 2 cards mb? Can you say no hand for them?)
+3 Duress
+3 Thought Hemorrhage (Name Iona, Martial Coup, or anything you saw them get from treasure hunt or you know from duress)
Basically, my deck turns into hand denial aggro, and the card advantage just isnt enough for them to keep up considering they dont untap with Jace. If you time your blightnings/Mind rots correctly, you shouldnt have much of a problem with this matchup. Just dont over extend, and remember, you dont HAVE to play blightning T3, wait until they have dropped a few lands, and you know they wont have any to pitch to the discard and you can hit the good stuff. Or better yet, wait until they tap out, or atleast tap alot for Jace 2.0 and then Blightning him. Nothing is more satisfying than watching them drop thier $50 Jace and discard 2.
The one matchup I continually lose to though, is White Weenie.. I mean, Black night and Kor Firewalker mainboard? Devout lightcaster brought in game 2? Stick a basilisk collor on them and suddenly racing just became a whole lot harder.. I hate this matchup, and am thinking about making room in the SB for Infest to get rid of those 2/2's.. cuz they really bug =\
Its a good story about why the red cards are better but why cut the bloodghasts to sideboard, imo they are the best 2 drop
p.s what about anathemancer in sideboard works good vs jund and control
Personally, I just think he just doesnt pull his weight in enough matchups to warrant being in the MB, I mean, consider what eats him all day long in our standard..
Sprouting Thrinax, Putrid Leech, Wild Nacatl, 1/1 Tokens, Cunning sparkmage, Vampire nighthawk, Vampire Hexmage, Calcite snapper.. And the list goes on. I mean, he can be chumped by soo much, that most of the time I unearth him, and he sits there dumbly as my flyers fly over the X/3 blockers saying "Gee I wish I could block since my power is soo low and I cant swing.".
Not to mention, he is a HORRIBLE card to cascade into. Horrible. I understand, he is card advantage in its purest form. But the card QUALITY is low. I mean.. 2/1? for 2? I'd rather be playing Sign in blood, or Hexmage on turn 2. =D
As for anathemancer. I believe hes a great card to have in the sideboard. Its just the matter of finding room.
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Its much better to face these kinds of things, with a sense of poise and rationality. My Decks Standard
:symb::symr:Blightpyres:symr::symb:
:symu::symb::symw:EsperLockdown:symw::symb::symu:
:symb::symg:Hellcarver-Trap Combo:symg::symb:
2-2, beat Jund (multiple recurring Bloodghasts are win), beat mono-B vamps, lost to Jund (awesome player, he got nuts draws while mine were average), and lost to RDW (g1 was a slow start for me and he beat me down before I stabilized, and I had to mull to 5 in the second game and didn't draw enough answers).
Gonna work on my SB and see if I can alleviate the loss of Tendrils.
One possibility for life gain would be Consume Spirit. The mana to damage ratio is not what it is for Tendrils though so it may not be worth it. Is RDW really played a lot in your area or was it just an unlucky pairing? I wouldn't worry about making wholesale changes if you got paired against the one guy who plays RDW.
I'm not going to get a chance to play my new list at FNM this week (commitments with the Wife this evening) and next week is March Madness so I probably won't make it then either. I'm hoping I can squeeze some time in next Saturday as we have a local afternoon tourney. Hopefully some others will have a chance to play and provide results. Thanks for reporting back in Juneau!
I'm still unconvinced on Bit Blast. I only ever ran 2 of them so I never drew them that much and when I did, I always wished it was terminate or something cheaper. When I need removal, I usually need it sooner than turn 5-6. Sure, the cascade is great but for every time I'll cascade into a nocturnus or nighthawk, I'll also get a gatekeeper unkicked or a bloodghast. Maybe I need to retest with it as a 3x and see if I like it.
I also notice that many of the decks here are running only around 20 creatures. This just feels like it's not enough to me. I run 23 and wouldn't want to run any less than 22. Seems like runing 20 or less minimizes the effectiveness of Nocturnus since the odds of having other vamps on the board that don't die to removal is low. With all the removal in the format, I usually have to run a highborn or nighthawk out to suck out the removal so I can stick a nocturnus or bloodwitch.
I'm still unconvinced on Bit Blast. I only ever ran 2 of them so I never drew them that much and when I did, I always wished it was terminate or something cheaper. When I need removal, I usually need it sooner than turn 5-6. Sure, the cascade is great but for every time I'll cascade into a nocturnus or nighthawk, I'll also get a gatekeeper unkicked or a bloodghast. Maybe I need to retest with it as a 3x and see if I like it.
I also notice that many of the decks here are running only around 20 creatures. This just feels like it's not enough to me. I run 23 and wouldn't want to run any less than 22. Seems like runing 20 or less minimizes the effectiveness of Nocturnus since the odds of having other vamps on the board that don't die to removal is low. With all the removal in the format, I usually have to run a highborn or nighthawk out to suck out the removal so I can stick a nocturnus or bloodwitch.
And there in bold is the reason Bitblast isnt working for you :D! If your going to run B'B, then you want atleast 3. The reason for running it is that, when it comes down to the late game, and your in topdeck mode and your opponents got that pesky creature on the field, you topdeck a terminate and yah. its dead. But now what? you wait until you get a creature? Bit blast gets rid of that creature and then gives you something to fight back with. Or counts as double removal. Also, by running Gatekeeper(bitblast is the main reason i dont run it, and cuz it costs 3) and bloodghast, your weakening Bit blast. Bloodghast IMO, isnt necessary MB, your other 20 threats are plenty enough to win without him.
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Its much better to face these kinds of things, with a sense of poise and rationality. My Decks Standard
:symb::symr:Blightpyres:symr::symb:
:symu::symb::symw:EsperLockdown:symw::symb::symu:
:symb::symg:Hellcarver-Trap Combo:symg::symb:
Played this at FNM tonight, although the Blightnings weren't in stock, so I maindecked Bolts in their place instead.
Match 1:
Janky black deck, 2-0, blowout both games.
Match 2: Mono Black Vampires
Game 1, I had much more removal than him, and an active Nocturnus sealed the game.
Game 2, We removed each other's creatures, him with Tendrils, me with Terminate and Bolts. We attrition battled for a long time, life totals going up and down accordingly, until I drew nothing but land for 3 turns and a rush of Bloodghasts killed me.
Game 3, We attrition fought again for a while, until I was able to swing in with Nighthawks, Bloodghasts, and an active Nocturnus.
Match 3: Jund.
Game 1, I couldn't get anything going. BBE + 3 Thrinax destroyed me.
Game 2, I drew nothing but land, and Blightning took the Bolt and Thought Hemorrhage I was holding until next turn.
Match 4: Jund again.
Game 1, I curved out perfectly. Bloodghast into Nighthawk into Nocturnus. He cast a Broodmate, I Bit Blasted one of them, cascaded into a Gatekeeper, kicked it, and both 4/4's were gone. He didn't realize he could sacrifice the one the Blast was targeting, so I alpha striked for the game.
Game 2, He boarded in Stags and Goblin Ruinblasters, my Summits got destroyed leaving me without a red source, and I died shortly after.
Game 3, Much the same as game 2.
For the first time running this at FNM, even without the Blightnings, I feel this deck has a lot of raw power. I'll be running this next week with Blightnings in the maindeck, and maybe Bolts in the board.
Game 1 Vs Mono Black Vamps
Round 1: Good round, we traded Hexmages, & Nighthawks. Then i blightning'ed him, he discards 2 Doom blades. Then I Alphastrike with Nocturnus of the win.
Round 2: Turn 1, he duresses me and takes my terminate over my sign in blood when i only have 2 lands in hand. I draw a land, then on turn to use sign to draw a blightning and a land. End up being able to out removal him with Bit blast and terminates.
1-0
Game 2 vs GBUW Fog/Mill
Round 1: I manage to work through his fog with early damage, along side blightnings, and bloodwitch for 5+ he ended up sadistic sacrementing out all of my kalastria highborns, but i still managed the win.
Round 2: Dont remember much, exept for that he was at 2 life, and mind funeral'd me 3 times for the win. I had a lethal bloodwitch in hand =[
Round 3: turn 1 duress his ramp, Turn 2 Creature, turn 3 blightning, turn 4 nocturnus. He couldnt keep up, as his only draw card was a font and he couldnt fog.
2-0
Game 3 vs Mono White Allies
Round 1: He plays turn 1 Freeblad, i turn 2 terminate it. He sees turn 2 Ondu cleric. But thats the only thing that stays on the board. I overrun him with a nocturnus revealing a nocturnus. overkill.
Round 2: He saw 3 lands, and i double blightninged him. Easy win.
3-0
Game 4 vs G/W Cats Sligh (Nacatl, Loam lion, Lynx etc + Buff spells)
Round 1: He gets in early damage, but i stabilize mid game, and 5 lands means bit blast starts owning his guys while giving me guys. I pull off the win.
Round 2: My hand = 3 lands, terminate, terminate, doom blade, Bit blast. i Keep, end up killing all of his creatures, and getting a blightning turn 3. Bloodwitch + Nocturnus pull off an easy win.
4-0 (8-1 total)
FINALS
Game 5 vs Esper control that I helped build (piloted by my friend)
Round 1 - I work his life total down, game comes down to me withc a bloodwitch and nocturnus on the field. He plays Iona Shield of Emeria Followed by Sphinx of Jwar isle. He killed the only Manland i saw that game. He wins with 1 life =(
Round 2 - I side in all of my control hate (duress, mind rot, thought hemorrhage), Pull off the win with a lethal blightning after a nocturnus for 5.
Round 3 - turn 1 duress. After that, i see nothing but creatures, which he has too many answers for. Then he Mind shatters away my hand (Nocturnus, Bloodwitch, Land) And outraces my only creature (Hexmage) with his creeping tar pit, while i repeatedly draw land land and more land.. =)
4-1 (9-3 total)
I end up getting second, which is alright. I was a bad hand round 3 of the finals. Owell. This deck played amazingly, considering it was the first time I played it in real life. I really believe that Black Red Vamps is far better than Monoblack.
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Its much better to face these kinds of things, with a sense of poise and rationality. My Decks Standard
:symb::symr:Blightpyres:symr::symb:
:symu::symb::symw:EsperLockdown:symw::symb::symu:
:symb::symg:Hellcarver-Trap Combo:symg::symb:
1st Match - UW/G Ally: First game he hits 765 life after a kicked rite of replication on ondu cleric. Game two I win and game three I thought hemmoraged his clerics and excavators.
2nd Match - UW Control: We tie after time runs out at 1 win apiece.
3rd Match - UW Creature/Control: I swept him.
4th Match - Jund: I get smoked. We play two friendly games and I win one after 3 bit blast and 3 blightnings. I don't know what went wrong....
5th Match - Jund: I win game one. Lose game two. Game 3 I almost win, but he kills two nocturnus' and manages a topdeck blightning for the kill just before I would have won.
I am considering dropping a bit blast and a terminate for +2 bolt, but I worry about Noc as that has screwed me once before. I will see about posting a deck list later on (possibly).
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Current Decks
T2 B B/R Vamp - Fire in the Night R Aggro RDW
Semi-Casual UNinjas BZombies GBasilisks R/Suspend
Well, it would appear I have a thing for Tribal
____________________________________________________________________________ Wishes people would learn to peruse a thread before posting questions already answered.
I went to another tournament tonight, just a small 8-man event.
Round 1 - RDW (budgetized)
I helped my friend patch this deck together moments before the tournament (he was sick of his WW deck) so I knew what I was up against. He occasionally backed me into a corner, but I managed to beat him 2-0.
Round 2 - homebrew UB control
Rogue jank, this deck somehow managed to get 1st place. I lost 1-2, with a play error in game 3 costing me the round (I Thought Hemo'd the wrong card).
Round 3 - American Allies
Didn't draw enough removal in both games, and he quickly overpowered me.
Overall, I went 1-2, placing 5th. It's been a pretty rough week for me, and I'm almost tempted to play Jund next week just to heal my bruised ego, lol.
I think the main problem was that I wasn't prepared for random rogue decks. A lot of the meta-level players didn't show up tonight, which is a shame because I'm a lot more confident against Jund than I am against rogue hombrew jank.
It looks like BR Vampires did alright at FNM. I thought about going last night, but I decided on tonight's single elimination gambit again when I heard my sister was coming home yesterday.
Hopefully I'll provide some rewarding results. The only thing I'm really thinking about changing in the deck for night is MB Slave of Bolas, and side boarding Bit Blast. Someone talk me into, or out of it, while I sit here at my desk and pretend that I am doing work.
I thought wizards was going to stop the "real world" feel. Thats why Grizzly Bears was changed to Runeclaw Bear. Diminsh is awsome but quoting Alice's Adventures in Wonderland....what? Oh well.
And there in bold is the reason Bitblast isnt working for you :D! If your going to run B'B, then you want atleast 3. The reason for running it is that, when it comes down to the late game, and your in topdeck mode and your opponents got that pesky creature on the field, you topdeck a terminate and yah. its dead. But now what? you wait until you get a creature? Bit blast gets rid of that creature and then gives you something to fight back with. Or counts as double removal. Also, by running Gatekeeper(bitblast is the main reason i dont run it, and cuz it costs 3) and bloodghast, your weakening Bit blast. Bloodghast IMO, isnt necessary MB, your other 20 threats are plenty enough to win without him.
I understand your point and you've convinced me to test it as a 3x. I'm still having trouble adding this to the deck though when it's suddenly not good enough for jund anymore. People seem to be having success with it though so I'll try it. I don't know about cutting both bloodghast and gatekeeper though. Let the testing commense!
On another note, I've noticed that most people that are losing to Jund are winning game 1. Seems like they really have an edge post-board or that they are losing game 1 due to the surprise factor. I'm not sure which. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I know they have stag but we have answers as well (gatekeeper, bolt)
Jund has BBE for cascade we on the other hand don't, all I can say is that Bit Blast won me 2 matches last FNM thats enough for me to keep until it proves a liability.
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@jrussell: I'm in love with Thought Hemorrhage, it does what it's supposed to do, it hits the hand and grave, and it uses red, and we use red, so it can go in the deck.
Not a fan or supporter of New Magic
Yea, it's needed in the world of Jund and man lands. I run 2x in the main and another in the SB. It's doable but the mana is still a slight issue with this deck.
To the conversation about whether the red splash helps vs. Jund, I believe that it does but I've still been losing games post-board. They bring in stag and ruinblaster and that make it tough. I've yet to lose a pre-boarded game though with the red splash. If I can figure out a way to not have to mulligan to 5 or get hit by double/triple blightning games 2 and 3, I'd be money
Have you made any changes to your deck for his week's FNM, JRussell?
BRG Kresh the Bloodbraided GRB
(81% foil)
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Kalastria Highborn
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Vampire Nocturnus
3 Bituminous Blast
4 Blightning
4 Terminate
4 Urge to Feed
4 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Marsh Flats
11 Swamp
4 Duress
4 Earthquake
4 Tectonic Edge
3 Thought Hemorrhage
Sideboard includes Duress and Thought Hemorrhage for primarily control matchups, Earthquake for WW matchups, and Tectonic Edge for Jund, Naya, and Junk. Gonna take this to FNM and see how it performs.
Decktags are cool.
Very, but I didn't know how.
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig.
Casual
Midblight
Can we see the sideboard?
Not a fan or supporter of New Magic
Just the changes I talked about making after the game day. I removed the 2 sign in blood and added 2 grim discovery but I'm not sold on it yet. I also removed a marsh flats and a swamp and added 2 terramorphic expanse as a way to fetch red or black. Mana seems to be running better because of this and I'm never without red now. I still feel like I'm getting too little mana sometimes so I'm considering adding another swamp or terramorphic and going up to 61, which I don't like doing but sometimes it's correct. I really want 23.5 land and this is the best way to accomplish this (or so some of the pros say).
Creatures-
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Kalastria Highborn
4x Vampire Nighthawk
4x Vampire Nocturnus
4x Malakir Bloodwitch
Spells-
4x Sign in blood
4x Terminate
4x Blightning
4x Bituminous Blast
1x Mountain
13x Swamp
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Lavaclaw Reaches
2x Akoum Refuge
2x Mind Rot
3x Though Hemorrhage
3x Duress
3x Bloodghast
4x Doomblade
Some Variatons im testing:
4x Smother in SB vs 4x Doomblade
3/1 SiB & Mind Rot in MB Vs 4x Sign in blood
I have been playing MBVamps since the Zen Pre-release. (yeah i pretty much had the deck built before the set was out =D) And i just recently switched to RBVamps. Personally, I believe RBVamps is the stronger list. Why?
Terminate Vs Disfigure/Urge To feed/Smother/Doom Blade
- Terminate is just by far the best removal spell. Possibly even the best in standard (arguably vs Path), and with access to red mana, we get this. If you see even one of the red mana sources in your deck, suddenly Baneslayer, KoTr, Leatherback Baloth, Bloodwitch, and other fattier arent as big of a problem. Considering Disfigure, or urge couldnt save you against a BSA, I believe this is a major improvement.
Blightning Vs Gatekeeper of Malakir (In my deck I dont play Keeper, most RBVamps do)
-To compare these two, you have to look at what is the better 2 for 1. First off, Gatekeeper has the potential for some MASSIVE game swings if your on the play. T2 Hexmage, T3 Gatekeeper, T4 Gatekeeper, T5 Nocturnus is pretty much GG vs just about any aggro deck. But, Gatekeeper is also weak against alot of decks too. More namely, Jund (Goblin tokens/Thrinax), Weenie decks, Token decks, Etc. Not to mention, at the end of the day, its just a 2/2.. Then you see blightning, 2, 3 damage and 2 discard. Now, why I believe Blightning is better is that, it is more relevent vs ALL matchups. If your on the play, and you hit jund first with a blightning, thier going to be in a WORLD of hurt if they dont follow up with one of thier own. Not to mention against RDW, Blightning is exeptional, they lose lots of fuel and take 3? Yes Please. Against control Blightning is clearly the better card (arguably you could say gatekeeper is better vs Shroud.Dec, but personally I still prefer Blightning). So Basically if your deciding between Mono B and RB, its Grizzlybear/Edict vs Bolt/Mind rot. Your call on what is better as they are both exeptionally good cards.
Last but not least, Tendrils of corruption vs Bituminous Blast
- Lets face it, when switching to RB from Mono B, tendrils is HARD to let go of. Tendrils is an amazing card. 4+ damage, & 4+ life gain for 4? Great.. But, why would you want to gain some life and stall when you can use bitblast to go on the offensive? Here are some possibilities.
From worst to best going down..:
Bitblast --> Highborn (Ok, so this is probly cascade at its worst, unless of course your opponent is at low life, then this is good =D)
Bitblast --> Hexmage (Kill a creature and a jace? Oh yes..)
Bitblast --> SigninBlood (Ok. 3-for-1, not bad.)
Bitblast --> Nighthawk (Kill a creature.. Get a deathtoucher? Wow!)
Bitblast --> Terminate (A 2-for-1 At its finest)
Bitblast --> Blightning (Ok, so 3-for-1 + 3 damage.. Can you say insanely good? Not to mention with the rise of Jace, this can possibly be a 4-for-1 if they have a PW with 3>= Counters on it.. This is the second best play in standard right now, right after BBE-->Blightning)
Bitblast --> Nocturnus (Ok.. So Destroy a creature, get a 3/3 that can boost my entire team? This is where its at)
So as you can see, Bit blast makes for some insane plays. Not convinced yet? What if i told you that if you dont have a black card on top.. Cascade can give you a second chance. Forgot about that eh? =) Trust me, it wins games. I promise.
So overall, I believe the addition of red is much better for vampires. All of your spells(Exept Terminate) become 2+-for-1's, which is what Jund uses to be soo powerful. You get a bit more Controlling with the addition of Blightning and better removal, while at the same time, you get more aggro-y with the addition of blightning. Overall, the card advantage alone wins games, and when you look at the fact that most vampires are just amazing, you can see that this redblack vamps an amazing deck and if your playing Mono black vamps, I would definately suggest even giving the addition of red a shot!
Its much better to face these kinds of things, with a sense of poise and rationality.
My Decks
Standard
:symb::symr:Blightpyres:symr::symb:
:symu::symb::symw:EsperLockdown:symw::symb::symu:
:symb::symg:Hellcarver-Trap Combo:symg::symb:
BRG Kresh the Bloodbraided GRB
(81% foil)
Any reason for the 2/1 split between Earthquake and Infest? The only thing that comes to mind is Emeria Angel tokens. I personally prefer Earthquake, since my creatures can evade it.
BRG Kresh the Bloodbraided GRB
(81% foil)
I've pretty much been testing online, the decks I play against IRL aren't anything to be notable, but personally I find UW control to be one of the easiest matchups.
Against UW control, we have several amazing cards.
Sign in blood
Blightning
Kalastria Highborn
Mind Rot (if you play it)
Vampire hexmage (Jace-be-gone!)
Thought hemorrhage
Duress
Lavaclaw Reaches
When I sideboard against UW (And most controls) it looks pretty much like this.
-4 Terminate
-4 Bituminous Blast
+2 Mind Rot (6 discard 2 cards mb? Can you say no hand for them?)
+3 Duress
+3 Thought Hemorrhage (Name Iona, Martial Coup, or anything you saw them get from treasure hunt or you know from duress)
Basically, my deck turns into hand denial aggro, and the card advantage just isnt enough for them to keep up considering they dont untap with Jace. If you time your blightnings/Mind rots correctly, you shouldnt have much of a problem with this matchup. Just dont over extend, and remember, you dont HAVE to play blightning T3, wait until they have dropped a few lands, and you know they wont have any to pitch to the discard and you can hit the good stuff. Or better yet, wait until they tap out, or atleast tap alot for Jace 2.0 and then Blightning him. Nothing is more satisfying than watching them drop thier $50 Jace and discard 2.
The one matchup I continually lose to though, is White Weenie.. I mean, Black night and Kor Firewalker mainboard? Devout lightcaster brought in game 2? Stick a basilisk collor on them and suddenly racing just became a whole lot harder.. I hate this matchup, and am thinking about making room in the SB for Infest to get rid of those 2/2's.. cuz they really bug =\
Personally, I just think he just doesnt pull his weight in enough matchups to warrant being in the MB, I mean, consider what eats him all day long in our standard..
Sprouting Thrinax, Putrid Leech, Wild Nacatl, 1/1 Tokens, Cunning sparkmage, Vampire nighthawk, Vampire Hexmage, Calcite snapper.. And the list goes on. I mean, he can be chumped by soo much, that most of the time I unearth him, and he sits there dumbly as my flyers fly over the X/3 blockers saying "Gee I wish I could block since my power is soo low and I cant swing.".
Not to mention, he is a HORRIBLE card to cascade into. Horrible. I understand, he is card advantage in its purest form. But the card QUALITY is low. I mean.. 2/1? for 2? I'd rather be playing Sign in blood, or Hexmage on turn 2. =D
As for anathemancer. I believe hes a great card to have in the sideboard. Its just the matter of finding room.
Its much better to face these kinds of things, with a sense of poise and rationality.
My Decks
Standard
:symb::symr:Blightpyres:symr::symb:
:symu::symb::symw:EsperLockdown:symw::symb::symu:
:symb::symg:Hellcarver-Trap Combo:symg::symb:
2-2, beat Jund (multiple recurring Bloodghasts are win), beat mono-B vamps, lost to Jund (awesome player, he got nuts draws while mine were average), and lost to RDW (g1 was a slow start for me and he beat me down before I stabilized, and I had to mull to 5 in the second game and didn't draw enough answers).
Gonna work on my SB and see if I can alleviate the loss of Tendrils.
BRG Kresh the Bloodbraided GRB
(81% foil)
I'm not going to get a chance to play my new list at FNM this week (commitments with the Wife this evening) and next week is March Madness so I probably won't make it then either. I'm hoping I can squeeze some time in next Saturday as we have a local afternoon tourney. Hopefully some others will have a chance to play and provide results. Thanks for reporting back in Juneau!
I'm still unconvinced on Bit Blast. I only ever ran 2 of them so I never drew them that much and when I did, I always wished it was terminate or something cheaper. When I need removal, I usually need it sooner than turn 5-6. Sure, the cascade is great but for every time I'll cascade into a nocturnus or nighthawk, I'll also get a gatekeeper unkicked or a bloodghast. Maybe I need to retest with it as a 3x and see if I like it.
I also notice that many of the decks here are running only around 20 creatures. This just feels like it's not enough to me. I run 23 and wouldn't want to run any less than 22. Seems like runing 20 or less minimizes the effectiveness of Nocturnus since the odds of having other vamps on the board that don't die to removal is low. With all the removal in the format, I usually have to run a highborn or nighthawk out to suck out the removal so I can stick a nocturnus or bloodwitch.
And there in bold is the reason Bitblast isnt working for you :D! If your going to run B'B, then you want atleast 3. The reason for running it is that, when it comes down to the late game, and your in topdeck mode and your opponents got that pesky creature on the field, you topdeck a terminate and yah. its dead. But now what? you wait until you get a creature? Bit blast gets rid of that creature and then gives you something to fight back with. Or counts as double removal. Also, by running Gatekeeper(bitblast is the main reason i dont run it, and cuz it costs 3) and bloodghast, your weakening Bit blast. Bloodghast IMO, isnt necessary MB, your other 20 threats are plenty enough to win without him.
Its much better to face these kinds of things, with a sense of poise and rationality.
My Decks
Standard
:symb::symr:Blightpyres:symr::symb:
:symu::symb::symw:EsperLockdown:symw::symb::symu:
:symb::symg:Hellcarver-Trap Combo:symg::symb:
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Kalastria Highborn
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Vampire Nocturnus
3 Bituminous Blast
4 Blightning
4 Terminate
4 Urge to Feed
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Marsh Flats
10 Swamp
4 Duress
4 Earthquake
4 Vampire Hexmage
3 Thought Hemorrhage
Played this at FNM tonight, although the Blightnings weren't in stock, so I maindecked Bolts in their place instead.
Match 1:
Janky black deck, 2-0, blowout both games.
Match 2: Mono Black Vampires
Game 1, I had much more removal than him, and an active Nocturnus sealed the game.
Game 2, We removed each other's creatures, him with Tendrils, me with Terminate and Bolts. We attrition battled for a long time, life totals going up and down accordingly, until I drew nothing but land for 3 turns and a rush of Bloodghasts killed me.
Game 3, We attrition fought again for a while, until I was able to swing in with Nighthawks, Bloodghasts, and an active Nocturnus.
Match 3: Jund.
Game 1, I couldn't get anything going. BBE + 3 Thrinax destroyed me.
Game 2, I drew nothing but land, and Blightning took the Bolt and Thought Hemorrhage I was holding until next turn.
Match 4: Jund again.
Game 1, I curved out perfectly. Bloodghast into Nighthawk into Nocturnus. He cast a Broodmate, I Bit Blasted one of them, cascaded into a Gatekeeper, kicked it, and both 4/4's were gone. He didn't realize he could sacrifice the one the Blast was targeting, so I alpha striked for the game.
Game 2, He boarded in Stags and Goblin Ruinblasters, my Summits got destroyed leaving me without a red source, and I died shortly after.
Game 3, Much the same as game 2.
For the first time running this at FNM, even without the Blightnings, I feel this deck has a lot of raw power. I'll be running this next week with Blightnings in the maindeck, and maybe Bolts in the board.
Thanks to DNC @ Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig.
Casual
Midblight
Game 1 Vs Mono Black Vamps
Round 1: Good round, we traded Hexmages, & Nighthawks. Then i blightning'ed him, he discards 2 Doom blades. Then I Alphastrike with Nocturnus of the win.
Round 2: Turn 1, he duresses me and takes my terminate over my sign in blood when i only have 2 lands in hand. I draw a land, then on turn to use sign to draw a blightning and a land. End up being able to out removal him with Bit blast and terminates.
1-0
Game 2 vs GBUW Fog/Mill
Round 1: I manage to work through his fog with early damage, along side blightnings, and bloodwitch for 5+ he ended up sadistic sacrementing out all of my kalastria highborns, but i still managed the win.
Round 2: Dont remember much, exept for that he was at 2 life, and mind funeral'd me 3 times for the win. I had a lethal bloodwitch in hand =[
Round 3: turn 1 duress his ramp, Turn 2 Creature, turn 3 blightning, turn 4 nocturnus. He couldnt keep up, as his only draw card was a font and he couldnt fog.
2-0
Game 3 vs Mono White Allies
Round 1: He plays turn 1 Freeblad, i turn 2 terminate it. He sees turn 2 Ondu cleric. But thats the only thing that stays on the board. I overrun him with a nocturnus revealing a nocturnus. overkill.
Round 2: He saw 3 lands, and i double blightninged him. Easy win.
3-0
Game 4 vs G/W Cats Sligh (Nacatl, Loam lion, Lynx etc + Buff spells)
Round 1: He gets in early damage, but i stabilize mid game, and 5 lands means bit blast starts owning his guys while giving me guys. I pull off the win.
Round 2: My hand = 3 lands, terminate, terminate, doom blade, Bit blast. i Keep, end up killing all of his creatures, and getting a blightning turn 3. Bloodwitch + Nocturnus pull off an easy win.
4-0 (8-1 total)
FINALS
Game 5 vs Esper control that I helped build (piloted by my friend)
Round 1 - I work his life total down, game comes down to me withc a bloodwitch and nocturnus on the field. He plays Iona Shield of Emeria Followed by Sphinx of Jwar isle. He killed the only Manland i saw that game. He wins with 1 life =(
Round 2 - I side in all of my control hate (duress, mind rot, thought hemorrhage), Pull off the win with a lethal blightning after a nocturnus for 5.
Round 3 - turn 1 duress. After that, i see nothing but creatures, which he has too many answers for. Then he Mind shatters away my hand (Nocturnus, Bloodwitch, Land) And outraces my only creature (Hexmage) with his creeping tar pit, while i repeatedly draw land land and more land.. =)
4-1 (9-3 total)
I end up getting second, which is alright. I was a bad hand round 3 of the finals. Owell. This deck played amazingly, considering it was the first time I played it in real life. I really believe that Black Red Vamps is far better than Monoblack.
Its much better to face these kinds of things, with a sense of poise and rationality.
My Decks
Standard
:symb::symr:Blightpyres:symr::symb:
:symu::symb::symw:EsperLockdown:symw::symb::symu:
:symb::symg:Hellcarver-Trap Combo:symg::symb:
1st Match - UW/G Ally: First game he hits 765 life after a kicked rite of replication on ondu cleric. Game two I win and game three I thought hemmoraged his clerics and excavators.
2nd Match - UW Control: We tie after time runs out at 1 win apiece.
3rd Match - UW Creature/Control: I swept him.
4th Match - Jund: I get smoked. We play two friendly games and I win one after 3 bit blast and 3 blightnings. I don't know what went wrong....
5th Match - Jund: I win game one. Lose game two. Game 3 I almost win, but he kills two nocturnus' and manages a topdeck blightning for the kill just before I would have won.
I am considering dropping a bit blast and a terminate for +2 bolt, but I worry about Noc as that has screwed me once before. I will see about posting a deck list later on (possibly).
B B/R Vamp - Fire in the Night
R Aggro RDW
Semi-Casual
UNinjas
BZombies
GBasilisks
R/Suspend
Well, it would appear I have a thing for Tribal
Wishes people would learn to peruse a thread before posting questions already answered.
Round 1 - RDW (budgetized)
I helped my friend patch this deck together moments before the tournament (he was sick of his WW deck) so I knew what I was up against. He occasionally backed me into a corner, but I managed to beat him 2-0.
Round 2 - homebrew UB control
Rogue jank, this deck somehow managed to get 1st place. I lost 1-2, with a play error in game 3 costing me the round (I Thought Hemo'd the wrong card).
Round 3 - American Allies
Didn't draw enough removal in both games, and he quickly overpowered me.
Overall, I went 1-2, placing 5th. It's been a pretty rough week for me, and I'm almost tempted to play Jund next week just to heal my bruised ego, lol.
I think the main problem was that I wasn't prepared for random rogue decks. A lot of the meta-level players didn't show up tonight, which is a shame because I'm a lot more confident against Jund than I am against rogue hombrew jank.
BRG Kresh the Bloodbraided GRB
(81% foil)
Hopefully I'll provide some rewarding results. The only thing I'm really thinking about changing in the deck for night is MB Slave of Bolas, and side boarding Bit Blast. Someone talk me into, or out of it, while I sit here at my desk and pretend that I am doing work.
Bituminous Blast is removal + immediate card advantage that can turn a game around.
I understand your point and you've convinced me to test it as a 3x. I'm still having trouble adding this to the deck though when it's suddenly not good enough for jund anymore. People seem to be having success with it though so I'll try it. I don't know about cutting both bloodghast and gatekeeper though. Let the testing commense!
On another note, I've noticed that most people that are losing to Jund are winning game 1. Seems like they really have an edge post-board or that they are losing game 1 due to the surprise factor. I'm not sure which. Anyone have any thoughts on this? I know they have stag but we have answers as well (gatekeeper, bolt)