It really depends what version you are playing. But I think in general the toughest matchup is going to be UWr planeswalkers. They have enough removal to get rid of your rampers and enough control to make their planeswalkers stick.
You can sideboard against them but even after that it still an uphill battle.
yeah, it makes good sense. just wish we had more answers than they had planeswalkers.
and with the needle, which do you think is best to name? its always been Jace as the threat to me, but i wanna know about others experiances.
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it could work as a SB option when playing agianst U/W anything and maybe planeswalkers. but i also see the problem in that by turn 6, the planeswalkers would be getting thier walkers close to the ultimates and/or are controling you very effectively. But U/W should have more trouble with it, cause they would have to use O-Ring or a Pithing Needle. Though they could counter if they are on the play instead of you (this assumes a T2 drop).
TOP 8
Quarter Finals vs U/G Polymorph
G1 I get Jace 2.0 to answer his Emrakul, we quickly go to G2...
G2 He gets Emrakul and I am unable to answer it...
G3 I negate his Jace and then O-Ring his Emrakul and win out from there...
Top 4 splits... I nab a foil Jace2.0, Gideon, Baneslayer, and Vengevine
Can you explain this to me? How did you get away with o-ringing his Emrakul? Protection from colored spells.
Just asking...seems someone wasn't paying attention.
Only reports go here. But Oblivion Ring's triggered ability is not a colored spell. It works.
I stand corrected. I have it now. Must....read....better
"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
You really need to play more counter magic and o-ring in the side. You can also sidein some Dauntless Escorts to help against the mass removal. This way you can attack into the Planeswalkers and save the counters and removal for late game action.
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
My problem is with RDW. My only 2 losses in 2 FNMs were to RDW. I admit, I never got a god hand against them, but a good hand and I still lost.
Any advice here?
RDW shouldn't be a hard matchup for Mythic, since we have awesome Lifelinkers in Rhox War Monk and Baneslayer Angel. When siding, side in a set of Negates for their burn and you should be fine.
Thornling is an absolute beast, but if he gets tapped down by Ajani you'll need Oblivion Rings to take care of him. That being said, sideboard Oblivion Rings, Negates, and Qasali Pridemages (to take care of their Oblivion Rings or Spreading Seas) should do the trick in this matchup if you're running Thornlings MD (as I am in my Mythic list in my signature).
Thornling is an absolute beast, but if he gets tapped down by Ajani you'll need Oblivion Rings to take care of him. That being said, sideboard Oblivion Rings, Negates, and Qasali Pridemages (to take care of their Oblivion Rings or Spreading Seas) should do the trick in this matchup if you're running Thornlings MD (as I am in my Mythic list in my signature).
I've replaced MD Baneslayer Angels with Thornlings* and Rhox Warmonks with Dauntless Escorts. I'm not 100% sold on the idea yet, but at least Durdurdur sticks around for a while and Angels die. Not a lot of people I know can afford SuperPals.dec right now so that will keep me from building Bant with them exclusively in mind.
*I know I know, everyone thinks it's a bad idea, but bad ideas are what I specialize in.
I play the Conscription list now and I do really like it. Making my oppo scoop after they see a turn 3 lotus cobra hit them for 14 is cool. Altough this is not always the case and it can be disrupted quite easily. Especially in the jund MU. But jund is not my biggest concern atm. I really really hate UW permission and UWR. I can't seem to stick my sovereigns to the board due to deprive or they just path away my conscripted creature (yes in my area they play path and sometimes unsummon....).
How do you sideboard against them? + 2 o-ring, +4 dauntless escort, +4 negate? And what do you side out then?
I really need some help with this cause I can't seem to get stable wins.
For U/W and the U/W splash R deck we were siding out
-2 Sovereigns, -1 Conscription, -4 Cobra, -1 Elspeth, -1 land
for
+3 O-Ring, +2 Qasali Pridemage, +4 Negate
Ran 4x Escort MD, if they run Wall of Denial it's usually better to pull out Baneslayers instead of the Nombo, also I'm not sure if that is the ideal way to board out against them but it makes sense. Elspeth is almost as bad as she is good against them, continuous board presence is nice but she really only helps a ton if you've already got board presence (at which point negate would be better).
Johnny,
Given your performance this w/e, I'd love to see a more in-depth SB primer.
Also, agreed on Escort in the deck. I think some people don't want to give up their RWMs and I don't blame them but Escort is better, it seems to me, in most MUs, save perhaps RDW and the like.
We used a near identical (if not identical) SB strategy as the guy who wrote the "Conscripting a PTQ" article on Channelfireball.
Versus U/W:
-2 Sovereigns, -1 Conscription, -4 Cobra, -1 Elspeth, -1 Land
+3 O-Ring, +2 Qasali Pridemage, +4 Negate
I believe he had 1 Deprive in his SB that he sided in instead of a 3rd O-Ring
If they run Wall of Denial you cut BSA instead of the Sovereigns combo
Why is Jwar Isle not used? With Sphinx, you can put the Conscription on it and take out a chance of getting it removed. Sure, they can still DoJ, but at least you can't get Pathed or Terminated. I would think:
-4 Baneslayer
+4 Sphinx
would be a good change. Everything else seems good though.
hey just as an fyi, u cant put conscription on it because that would be targeting it... but besides that small factor then yes it would be a better choice
With Sovereigns you can since it technically doesn't target it.
These rulings are strait off the magic Gatherer:
5/1/2009 The attacking creature is not targeted by either this ability or the Aura, so a creature with shroud can be enchanted this way. ( I assume this is because auras only target while on the stack, and this ability bypasses the stack)
5/1/2009 Any Aura card you find with Sovereigns of Lost Alara's second ability must be able to enchant the attacking creature as it currently exists. You need to check the Aura's enchant ability as well as any effects, such as protection, that would make it illegal to attach that Aura to the attacking creature. For example, if the attacking creature were an artifact creature with protection from blue, you could find an Aura with "enchant artifact," but you could not find a blue Aura.
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Easy Dude. You're being very un-Dude.
____________________________________________
Jwar Isle isn't used because a) 6 mana is a LOT more than 5 mana, b) Baneslayer's lifegain is really, really important vs creature decks- vs a rush you sometimes have togo T3 Slayer, T4 Gideon without attacking to stabilize the board and your life total.
And sometimes you just plain hardcast the conscription.
hey just as an fyi, u cant put conscription on it because that would be targeting it... but besides that small factor then yes it would be a better choice
Auras only target when being cast. Nothing on Sovereigns says that you should target anything. The aura just attaches.
but since you're running Sovereigns, I'd suggest an Aura toolbox. Snake Umbra seems good.
Also, run 3 Sovereigns and 1 Conscription if you're giving yourself 4 slots. You're never going to hardcast the latter, anyway.
Auras only target when being cast. Nothing on Sovereigns says that you should target anything. The aura just attaches.
but since you're running Sovereigns, I'd suggest an Aura toolbox. Snake Umbra seems good.
Also, run 3 Sovereigns and 1 Conscription if you're giving yourself 4 slots. You're never going to hardcast the latter, anyway.
Have you even played the deck?
You suggested running bad cards and cutting down on the good ones...
Conscription absolutely gets hard cast (you have 16 creatures that make mana) and you want 2 in case they answer the first one...
I'm playing conscription because I feel it has more options being a bit more mid-range. I like having planeswalkers in my back pocket if I can't conscription going. My wins are about 60/40 conscription to planeswalkers.
I disagree that this deck isn't worth running. I've ran it at the last two FNM's and top 4'd in both (split top 3 in the first and placed third in the second). Oddly only got to play jund twice against the same person. First time I could not stop drawing ramp and nothing else and lost the match. Second time I steam rolled the guy. I find the two cards I HATE seeing are Malakir bloodwitch and consuming vapors.
This is the list I will be running at my local regionals unless I decide to play my Planeswalker control that runs scepter of dominance instead of elspeths...
Not sure how to post deck lists on this site since I'm new, but I'd appreciate the know-how.
As to the previous poster who said you'll never hardcast conscription:
This was me on the play round 3 of the deck's first FNM... Turn 1: forest hierarch, Turn 2: play lotus cobra with land and hierarch, play sac land and sac it to play a second lotus cobra, Turn 3: play sac land float 2 of anything, sac it, float 2 more of anything, tap the new land, your previous 2 and the hiearch to HARDCAST conscription onto a cobra and swing for a 12/11 Trample, annhilator 2 Cobra on turn 3... Not to mention the fact that my opponent has only had his second turn and tapped out to play a spreading seas on one of my lands. He proceeded to scoop.
Just because it's not ideal to have to cast an 8 cost enchantment, doesn't mean you shouldn't in certain situations.
Don't count the deck out yet. Especially considering it is strong vs. just about anything. Control is a challenge, but I've beaten it. Just know your board and the deck you're play to the best of your ability.
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Awesome job on Sig by Neongoyf from Damnation Studios
The conscription package is stronger, I feel. It dies to instant speed removal, but so does rafiq. Think about it, if they tap out on turn 4/5 you're completely open to slam with something huge that can't be chump blocked.
Both have their advantages, but conscription requires less pieces and is faster in my opinion.
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Awesome job on Sig by Neongoyf from Damnation Studios
I play both. I have 2x Finest Hour, 3x Rafiq and 2x Conscription/4x Sovereigns. The mixed combo is deadly. I fine the deck give me more options and really keeps the opponent on their toes!
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"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
The conscription package is stronger, I feel. It dies to instant speed removal, but so does rafiq. Think about it, if they tap out on turn 4/5 you're completely open to slam with something huge that can't be chump blocked.
Both have their advantages, but conscription requires less pieces and is faster in my opinion.
I guess my thought is that Finest Hour more than makes up for this. Conscripted creature is fairly easy to deal with, but Finest Hour is a lot less easy to deal with and can make anything a threat over and over. I think the difference is really in the Trample. Flying can somewhat make up for this. I'm really torn on this one though.
The conscription combo is resilient and significantly more devastating (and easier to protect) than rafiq/finest hour. Bant was missing a way to punch through those last few points before the opponent has the opportunity to become stabilized through chump blocking, and the conscription combo gives the deck a way to finish immediately.
The trample is the true killer of the combo, the 10 points would not be nearly as threatening if they could chump it until they could answer it. Trample makes blocking that much worse for them.
Plus I love me a bitt butt on a creature (Sovereigns does not die to bolt or bit blast or flame slash).
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You can sideboard against them but even after that it still an uphill battle.
and with the needle, which do you think is best to name? its always been Jace as the threat to me, but i wanna know about others experiances.
3 Plains
1 Island
5 Forest
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Celestial Colonnade
2 Marsh Flats
1 Stirring Wildwood
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
1 Sejiri Steppe
4 Rhox War Monk
2 Rafiq of the Many
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Baneslayer Angel
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Sovereigns of Lost Alara
Spells (12)
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Finest Hour
3 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Eldrazi Conscription
2 Path to Exile
4 Kor Firewalker
4 Dauntless Escort
2 Pithing Needle
3 Negate
2 Thornling
[SPOILER=Decks and Such]
Current Decks:[SPOILER]
:symu::symw::symg: Bant Exalted (T2) "The Pulse of Bant" Record: 8-3-0, 2nd Place: 1, 3rd Place: 2, 4th Place: 1
:symg::symr: Banefire Elves (T2) [/SPOILER]
Can you explain this to me? How did you get away with o-ringing his Emrakul? Protection from colored spells.
Just asking...seems someone wasn't paying attention.
Only reports go here. But Oblivion Ring's triggered ability is not a colored spell. It works.
I stand corrected. I have it now. Must....read....better
My problem is with RDW. My only 2 losses in 2 FNMs were to RDW. I admit, I never got a god hand against them, but a good hand and I still lost.
Any advice here?
RDW shouldn't be a hard matchup for Mythic, since we have awesome Lifelinkers in Rhox War Monk and Baneslayer Angel. When siding, side in a set of Negates for their burn and you should be fine.
:symw::symu::symg:Sovereign Mythic (8-4-0)
:symw::symu:Mythic Bant (20-10-0)
:symr::symb::symg: Jund
:symw::symr::symg:Where Ancients Suck
:symw::symu::symg:Sovereign Mythic (8-4-0)
:symw::symu:Mythic Bant (20-10-0)
:symr::symb::symg: Jund
:symw::symr::symg:Where Ancients Suck
I've replaced MD Baneslayer Angels with Thornlings* and Rhox Warmonks with Dauntless Escorts. I'm not 100% sold on the idea yet, but at least Durdurdur sticks around for a while and Angels die. Not a lot of people I know can afford SuperPals.dec right now so that will keep me from building Bant with them exclusively in mind.
*I know I know, everyone thinks it's a bad idea, but bad ideas are what I specialize in.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
For U/W and the U/W splash R deck we were siding out
-2 Sovereigns, -1 Conscription, -4 Cobra, -1 Elspeth, -1 land
for
+3 O-Ring, +2 Qasali Pridemage, +4 Negate
Ran 4x Escort MD, if they run Wall of Denial it's usually better to pull out Baneslayers instead of the Nombo, also I'm not sure if that is the ideal way to board out against them but it makes sense. Elspeth is almost as bad as she is good against them, continuous board presence is nice but she really only helps a ton if you've already got board presence (at which point negate would be better).
We used a near identical (if not identical) SB strategy as the guy who wrote the "Conscripting a PTQ" article on Channelfireball.
Versus U/W:
-2 Sovereigns, -1 Conscription, -4 Cobra, -1 Elspeth, -1 Land
+3 O-Ring, +2 Qasali Pridemage, +4 Negate
I believe he had 1 Deprive in his SB that he sided in instead of a 3rd O-Ring
If they run Wall of Denial you cut BSA instead of the Sovereigns combo
hey just as an fyi, u cant put conscription on it because that would be targeting it... but besides that small factor then yes it would be a better choice
Rise of the eldrazi = One of the more fun sets in a long while, peace out shards block
My Trade List http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=277368
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Bassamster32
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=277930
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
WBVish Kal, Blood ArbiterWB
WBRKaalia of the VastWBR
UBGVorosh, the HunterUBG
WRGisela, Blade of GoldnightWR
WUGJenara, Asura of WarWUG
WBGTeneb, The HarvesterWBG
WUBRGHorde of NotionsWUBRG
These rulings are strait off the magic Gatherer:
5/1/2009 The attacking creature is not targeted by either this ability or the Aura, so a creature with shroud can be enchanted this way. ( I assume this is because auras only target while on the stack, and this ability bypasses the stack)
5/1/2009 Any Aura card you find with Sovereigns of Lost Alara's second ability must be able to enchant the attacking creature as it currently exists. You need to check the Aura's enchant ability as well as any effects, such as protection, that would make it illegal to attach that Aura to the attacking creature. For example, if the attacking creature were an artifact creature with protection from blue, you could find an Aura with "enchant artifact," but you could not find a blue Aura.
____________________________________________
And sometimes you just plain hardcast the conscription.
Current post- Grand Prix KC Modern Postmortem (7/7/13)
Auras only target when being cast. Nothing on Sovereigns says that you should target anything. The aura just attaches.
but since you're running Sovereigns, I'd suggest an Aura toolbox. Snake Umbra seems good.
Also, run 3 Sovereigns and 1 Conscription if you're giving yourself 4 slots. You're never going to hardcast the latter, anyway.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Have you even played the deck?
You suggested running bad cards and cutting down on the good ones...
Conscription absolutely gets hard cast (you have 16 creatures that make mana) and you want 2 in case they answer the first one...
I disagree that this deck isn't worth running. I've ran it at the last two FNM's and top 4'd in both (split top 3 in the first and placed third in the second). Oddly only got to play jund twice against the same person. First time I could not stop drawing ramp and nothing else and lost the match. Second time I steam rolled the guy. I find the two cards I HATE seeing are Malakir bloodwitch and consuming vapors.
This is the list I will be running at my local regionals unless I decide to play my Planeswalker control that runs scepter of dominance instead of elspeths...
http://mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=32464
Not sure how to post deck lists on this site since I'm new, but I'd appreciate the know-how.
As to the previous poster who said you'll never hardcast conscription:
This was me on the play round 3 of the deck's first FNM... Turn 1: forest hierarch, Turn 2: play lotus cobra with land and hierarch, play sac land and sac it to play a second lotus cobra, Turn 3: play sac land float 2 of anything, sac it, float 2 more of anything, tap the new land, your previous 2 and the hiearch to HARDCAST conscription onto a cobra and swing for a 12/11 Trample, annhilator 2 Cobra on turn 3... Not to mention the fact that my opponent has only had his second turn and tapped out to play a spreading seas on one of my lands. He proceeded to scoop.
Just because it's not ideal to have to cast an 8 cost enchantment, doesn't mean you shouldn't in certain situations.
Don't count the deck out yet. Especially considering it is strong vs. just about anything. Control is a challenge, but I've beaten it. Just know your board and the deck you're play to the best of your ability.
Both have their advantages, but conscription requires less pieces and is faster in my opinion.
I guess my thought is that Finest Hour more than makes up for this. Conscripted creature is fairly easy to deal with, but Finest Hour is a lot less easy to deal with and can make anything a threat over and over. I think the difference is really in the Trample. Flying can somewhat make up for this. I'm really torn on this one though.
The trample is the true killer of the combo, the 10 points would not be nearly as threatening if they could chump it until they could answer it. Trample makes blocking that much worse for them.
Plus I love me a bitt butt on a creature (Sovereigns does not die to bolt or bit blast or flame slash).