How does the deck work?
These creatures really like to be recast, over and over.
I am focusing on 'recursion' NOT reanimation. This deck is not about cheating fatties into play, it is about continually recasting useful/powerful creatures. So whenever possible, my creatures ARE my spells.
I just did a massive overhaul of the deck, but I am not done just yet.
I am getting a Wheel of Fortune for the deck. At first glance, I will probably pull the Incendiary Command for it.
I am not interested in suggestions about my manabase, aside from 'add more land'. (I think the deck is ok because it has a pretty low curve for EDH) I am not adding any expensive lands to this.
I will be playing this in a semi-competitive EDH league. It allows me to run three decks, but I would like to know which of my three is most effective or best all-around. The league consists of 5 player games where you attack to the left and there is a spell radius (targeting-wise) of one. Global effects are still global, so things that take advantage of that are at a premium, I would think. Rasputin, the mana ramper (U/W) Nath of the token reanimation
I'm loving the deck, especially Jiwari. Going along that route, would Arashi, the Sky Asunder be a good card for this deck?
Maybe, I just don't see 'sweeping the air' as powerful as an earthquake effect.
More often than not there is one pesky flier around, and a ton of nonfliers.
Not sure what would go for it either. I much prefer 'destroy target flier' giant.
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I like how almost everything has some kind of CIPT effect, but your deck does seem suited for 1vs1 rather than multiplayer.
I'd highly recommend cutting out some of the CIPT cards that dont really make a huge impact for bigger bombs, such as, Pardic Arsonist, Murderous Redcap and Hammerheim Deadeye. Also I can't say, i like Artisan of Kozilek, Thought Gorger, Heartwood Storyteller and Void.
Birds of Paradise and Wall of Roots are pretty subpar in this format for me.
Diligent Farmhand is at best a second Sakura-Tribe Elderwhen in your opening hand, and at worse a Yavimaya Granger when not. It plays better with Gleancrawler as well, as dying on the same turn means it pops to your hand for the next, not the third. Either way, it could replace Birds or Wall of Roots. I recommend Wood Elves replacing the other potentially. Ramp is just better when it doesn't go away to the first Wrath of God.
Dimir House Guard makes a good reusable tutor for your list. Fetches Chain Reaction (Damnation), Oracle of Mul Daya, Hammerheim Deadeye, Mold Shambler, and Defense of the Heart. At worse, it acts as a good blocker and a Sac Outlet. It may seem narrow now, but with a little tuning and planning, you can get it fetching a lot of key cards fairly easy, considering how easy it is recur in your list.
Anathemancer is a great way to punish all those players with expensive mana bases and recurred a few times can be lethal.
Tin Street Hooligan is a cheap way to blow up artifacts, and Tuktuk Scrapper is a more expensive way, but combo's well with Kiki-Jiki (if you run him). Both being Goblins mean they can be sacked to Siege Gang to be reused later.
Faerie Macabre is about the spiciest grave hate tech you can use in the format that once again you can recur and reuse at a whim. It's uncounterable and cost no mana to use, and easily reusable with your General. In my Thrax deck, I often pitch it just to get Oversold Cemetery working.
Shred Memory is another versatile piece of grave hate that acts as a tutor, and just like Dimir House Guard can fetch some great things when thought about ahead of time (For instance, your Earthquake could become Fault Line, Molten Disaster, Comet Storm, or Starstorm). It would also fetch Lightning Greaves, Sakura Tribe Elder, Oversold Cemetary, Scroll Rack, Savage Twister (should be Starstorm, which is a strict upgrade) or Apocalypse Hydra. A lot of versatility and flexibility for an effect that is vital in a competitive format (grave hate).
Other then that, the idea and strategy is sound, but the list feels a little jumbled. I'd have to parse through it for overlapping effects to see what could be culled, and where things could be further improved. There is a lot of potential in the list, that's for sure. I'm reluctant to suggest anything else until you confirm if it's budget all around or not.
*Note: I have a bunch of cards in my other EDH decks that could probably work in here, I was just stuck wondering if I wanted to be shuffling cards back and forth for builds or not. I guess I will be doing that now.
I like how almost everything has some kind of CIPT effect, but your deck does seem suited for 1vs1 rather than multiplayer.
I'd highly recommend cutting out some of the CIPT cards that dont really make a huge impact for bigger bombs, such as, Pardic Arsonist, Murderous Redcap and Hammerheim Deadeye. Also I can't say, i like Artisan of Kozilek, Thought Gorger, Heartwood Storyteller and Void.
I can see why you don't like Arsonist and Redcap, but Deadeye is a BEATING. 'Destroy target flier' isn't good enough? Why?
I haven't gotten enough mileage with Artisan to weigh in yet. I played a (admittedly 1v1) game with Gorger and dumped 6 cards (mostly dudes) and the opponent was really hard up for answers to it. I like being able to stock my GY early on like that. Imagine casting that, then Oversold.
Heartwood can be cut, easy.
Void isn't good enough? It varies in usefulness, but can really mess with the board and screw people over.
Terastodon could work. I could fit Decree in here, sure.
I am not as confident in my ramping abilities (for whatever reason) to get to cast Emrakul in here. Ulamog might fit.
How budget are you going? Is it just on the mana base or in general?
Mana base basically. I am also a little ehhh to buying new cards for the list.
I ask, because Chain Reaction should probably be Damnation instead, otherwise Chain Reaction is fine, if budget applies across the board.
I like Chain Reaction in here because I have some semblance of control over it. I have cast it and swept everything but one of my guys before. But yes, I will put Damnation in here as well.
Birds of Paradise and Wall of Roots are pretty subpar in this format for me.
Diligent Farmhand is at best a second Sakura-Tribe Elderwhen in your opening hand, and at worse a Yavimaya Granger when not. It plays better with Gleancrawler as well, as dying on the same turn means it pops to your hand for the next, not the third. Either way, it could replace Birds or Wall of Roots. I recommend Wood Elves replacing the other potentially. Ramp is just better when it doesn't go away to the first Wrath of God.
Solemn Simaclarum and one of those will be added then I guess.
Forgot about Siege-Gang. Recently bought a playset for no particular reason, fits wonderfully in here. If I can get my hands on a Flametongue, he is so in here. I thought I had one, but apparently I do not.
Dimir House Guard makes a good reusable tutor for your list. Fetches Chain Reaction (Damnation), Oracle of Mul Daya, Hammerheim Deadeye, Mold Shambler, and Defense of the Heart. At worse, it acts as a good blocker and a Sac Outlet. It may seem narrow now, but with a little tuning and planning, you can get it fetching a lot of key cards fairly easy, considering how easy it is recur in your list.
He was in my other deck, but I never needed him. The ability to bring him back to my hand often makes him MUCH better in this deck. He is so in.
Anathemancer is a great way to punish all those players with expensive mana bases and recurred a few times can be lethal.
I almost put him in, will probably fit him in now.
Tin Street Hooligan is a cheap way to blow up artifacts, and Tuktuk Scrapper is a more expensive way, but combo's well with Kiki-Jiki (if you run him). Both being Goblins mean they can be sacked to Siege Gang to be reused later.
For some reason I was running Hearth Kami in here awhile ago. Hooligan seems good here.
Faerie Macabre is about the spiciest grave hate tech you can use in the format that once again you can recur and reuse at a whim. It's uncounterable and cost no mana to use, and easily reusable with your General. In my Thrax deck, I often pitch it just to get Oversold Cemetery working.
Welp, I'll put it in.
Shred Memory is another versatile piece of grave hate that acts as a tutor, and just like Dimir House Guard can fetch some great things when thought about ahead of time (For instance, your Earthquake could become Fault Line, Molten Disaster, Comet Storm, or Starstorm). It would also fetch Lightning Greaves, Sakura Tribe Elder, Oversold Cemetary, Scroll Rack, Savage Twister (should be Starstorm, which is a strict upgrade) or Apocalypse Hydra. A lot of versatility and flexibility for an effect that is vital in a competitive format (grave hate).
I like Krosan Reclamation for that, personally. With that card you have to choose to use it as a tutor or to hate the 'yard.
I am playing Sorceries to try to get the most out of my Anarchist, so he is nearly as powerful as Witness in this list. It has been working out nicely for me so far.
Other then that, the idea and strategy is sound, but the list feels a little jumbled. I'd have to parse through it for overlapping effects to see what could be culled, and where things could be further improved. There is a lot of potential in the list, that's for sure. I'm reluctant to suggest anything else until you confirm if it's budget all around or not.
Gave me a bunch to think about...
Here are the changes I can make right now:
-BOP
-Wall of Roots
-Pardic Arsonist
-Heartwood Storyteller
-Murderous Redcap
Cards I will look into getting for this list:
Kiki-Jiki
Flametongue Kavu
Thanks for the suggestions, this is probably the strangest of my EDH lists, good to see people like the idea behind it. I really like being a unique snowflake in EDH games.
For some perspective, I cut a few more 'hydra' dudes out of my deck on my last sweep. Protean Hydra, the XBBB 'target player loses X life' hydra...
I also ran Terastodon in here tonight.
Cards I wish I added?
Buried Alive and Anethamancer.
Buried Alive is in the mail, unfortunately I could have got it at the shop for cheaper. Learned my lesson.
Anethamancer could have dealt 12+ damage to the guy attacking me, and I could have recast it many times. Seems GOOD. Oops.
I felt like I needed carddraw ALL GAME.
What exactly is a good choice for this deck, specifically, that I am not already running?
I don't know if Arena fits so nicely, but I could make do with it.
Best/funniest play of the game?
Clique his Shapeshifter, targeting his Serra Avatar, attack other guy.
Other guy plays Condemn, I double my life total, Shapeshifter goes away.
The deck felt a little toothless though, I need to find a way to give it some more bite.
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You aren't running Sylvan Library, Necropotence, or Phyrexian Arena which are all good options for card draw in your colors, though Necro might be a bit hard to cast. Also, there is Oath of Ghouls as a 2nd get-stuff-back effect.
As far as teeth are concerned... Kamahl, Fist of Krosa can turn your team of utility guys into a giant rampaging army of really strong utility guys. I don't know that a deck like this wants too many "I'd big, hurr..." dorks, so something to make your other guys better seems like the way to go.
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"There's no such thing as a good play. There's the right play, then there's the mistake" -Jon Finkel
Thanks, appreciate the advice.
Oath is considerably better in the limited spell range games we play. My gy always has more dudes. Always.
Arena is going in.
Library is fine too.
Kamahl is a solid plan as well.
What other pump effects can I run that are stuck on dudes? Hrmmm
Centaur Chieftain?
Vigor?
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Dudes (39)
1 Duplicant
1 Acidic Slime
1 Anarchist
1 Apocalypse Hydra
1 Mold Shambler
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Bloodfire Colossus
1 Charnelhoard Wurm
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Dusk Urchins
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fertilid
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Thought Gorger
1 Hammerheim Deadeye
1 Lightning Serpent
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Genesis
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Pardic Arsonist
1 Conquering Manticore
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Shriekmaw
1 Spitebellows
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Jiwari, the Earth Aflame
1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Wall of Roots
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Yavimaya Granger
1 Heartwood Storyteller
1 Gleancrawler
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Disaster Radius
1 Liliana Vess
1 All Suns' Dawn
1 Earthquake
1 Harmonize
1 Chain Reaction
1 Incendiary Command
1 Primal Command
1 Restock
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Savage Twister
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Void
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Oversold Cemetery
1 Insidious Dreams
1 Krosan Grip
1 Krosan Reclamation
1 Terminate
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Sol Ring
Lands (35)
1 Fungal Reaches
1 Graven Cairns
1 Gruul Turf
1 Kazandu Refuge
1 Molten Slagheap
1 Mossfire Valley
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Rupture Spire
1 Savage Lands
1 Shadowblood Ridge
1 Shivan Oasis
1 Treetop Village
1 Winding Canyons
1 Darigaaz's Caldera
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Stomping Ground
1 Tresserhorn Sinks
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Twilight Mire
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Dragonskull Summit
6 Forest
3 Mountain
5 Swamp
How does the deck work?
These creatures really like to be recast, over and over.
I am focusing on 'recursion' NOT reanimation. This deck is not about cheating fatties into play, it is about continually recasting useful/powerful creatures. So whenever possible, my creatures ARE my spells.
I just did a massive overhaul of the deck, but I am not done just yet.
I am getting a Wheel of Fortune for the deck. At first glance, I will probably pull the Incendiary Command for it.
I am not interested in suggestions about my manabase, aside from 'add more land'. (I think the deck is ok because it has a pretty low curve for EDH) I am not adding any expensive lands to this.
I will be playing this in a semi-competitive EDH league. It allows me to run three decks, but I would like to know which of my three is most effective or best all-around. The league consists of 5 player games where you attack to the left and there is a spell radius (targeting-wise) of one. Global effects are still global, so things that take advantage of that are at a premium, I would think.
Rasputin, the mana ramper (U/W)
Nath of the token reanimation
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Maybe, I just don't see 'sweeping the air' as powerful as an earthquake effect.
More often than not there is one pesky flier around, and a ton of nonfliers.
Not sure what would go for it either. I much prefer 'destroy target flier' giant.
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I'd highly recommend cutting out some of the CIPT cards that dont really make a huge impact for bigger bombs, such as, Pardic Arsonist, Murderous Redcap and Hammerheim Deadeye. Also I can't say, i like Artisan of Kozilek, Thought Gorger, Heartwood Storyteller and Void.
This will steepen your curve a bit, but I'd recommend some game finishers, such as, Terastodon, Insurrection, Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni, Vicious Shadows, Decree of Pain, Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and depending on the amount of blue (bribery) in your group, I'd run at least 1 one of the legendary Eldrazi trio, notably Emrakul or Ulamog.
I ask, because Chain Reaction should probably be Damnation instead, otherwise Chain Reaction is fine, if budget applies across the board.
You can do good, non-broken things with Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, especially in this list.
Birds of Paradise and Wall of Roots are pretty subpar in this format for me.
Diligent Farmhand is at best a second Sakura-Tribe Elderwhen in your opening hand, and at worse a Yavimaya Granger when not. It plays better with Gleancrawler as well, as dying on the same turn means it pops to your hand for the next, not the third. Either way, it could replace Birds or Wall of Roots. I recommend Wood Elves replacing the other potentially. Ramp is just better when it doesn't go away to the first Wrath of God.
You can run cards like Elvish Abberration, Twisted Abomination or even better, Igneous Pouncer and Valley Rannet as "creature" lands that Adun can recur to help make land drops.
Murderous Redcap could be Flametongue Kavu. Saying that, I'm not a excited about Pardic Arsonist either and that could be Siege-Gang Commander
Dimir House Guard makes a good reusable tutor for your list. Fetches Chain Reaction (Damnation), Oracle of Mul Daya, Hammerheim Deadeye, Mold Shambler, and Defense of the Heart. At worse, it acts as a good blocker and a Sac Outlet. It may seem narrow now, but with a little tuning and planning, you can get it fetching a lot of key cards fairly easy, considering how easy it is recur in your list.
Buried Alive seems like a quick and easy way to start your engines. Feeds Oversold Cemetary quite well. So does Demonic Collusion.
Anathemancer is a great way to punish all those players with expensive mana bases and recurred a few times can be lethal.
Tin Street Hooligan is a cheap way to blow up artifacts, and Tuktuk Scrapper is a more expensive way, but combo's well with Kiki-Jiki (if you run him). Both being Goblins mean they can be sacked to Siege Gang to be reused later.
Faerie Macabre is about the spiciest grave hate tech you can use in the format that once again you can recur and reuse at a whim. It's uncounterable and cost no mana to use, and easily reusable with your General. In my Thrax deck, I often pitch it just to get Oversold Cemetery working.
Shred Memory is another versatile piece of grave hate that acts as a tutor, and just like Dimir House Guard can fetch some great things when thought about ahead of time (For instance, your Earthquake could become Fault Line, Molten Disaster, Comet Storm, or Starstorm). It would also fetch Lightning Greaves, Sakura Tribe Elder, Oversold Cemetary, Scroll Rack, Savage Twister (should be Starstorm, which is a strict upgrade) or Apocalypse Hydra. A lot of versatility and flexibility for an effect that is vital in a competitive format (grave hate).
Other then that, the idea and strategy is sound, but the list feels a little jumbled. I'd have to parse through it for overlapping effects to see what could be culled, and where things could be further improved. There is a lot of potential in the list, that's for sure. I'm reluctant to suggest anything else until you confirm if it's budget all around or not.
RW Kalemne, Disciple of Iroas
I can see why you don't like Arsonist and Redcap, but Deadeye is a BEATING. 'Destroy target flier' isn't good enough? Why?
I haven't gotten enough mileage with Artisan to weigh in yet. I played a (admittedly 1v1) game with Gorger and dumped 6 cards (mostly dudes) and the opponent was really hard up for answers to it. I like being able to stock my GY early on like that. Imagine casting that, then Oversold.
Heartwood can be cut, easy.
Void isn't good enough? It varies in usefulness, but can really mess with the board and screw people over.
Terastodon could work. I could fit Decree in here, sure.
I am not as confident in my ramping abilities (for whatever reason) to get to cast Emrakul in here. Ulamog might fit.
Mana base basically. I am also a little ehhh to buying new cards for the list.
I like Chain Reaction in here because I have some semblance of control over it. I have cast it and swept everything but one of my guys before. But yes, I will put Damnation in here as well.
Agreed, will have to look out for him.
Solemn Simaclarum and one of those will be added then I guess.
I had thought about landcyclers, didn't know it was entirely necessary. I do run Krosan Tusker though.
Forgot about Siege-Gang. Recently bought a playset for no particular reason, fits wonderfully in here. If I can get my hands on a Flametongue, he is so in here. I thought I had one, but apparently I do not.
He was in my other deck, but I never needed him. The ability to bring him back to my hand often makes him MUCH better in this deck. He is so in.
I almost put him in, will probably fit him in now.
For some reason I was running Hearth Kami in here awhile ago. Hooligan seems good here.
Welp, I'll put it in.
I like Krosan Reclamation for that, personally. With that card you have to choose to use it as a tutor or to hate the 'yard.
I am playing Sorceries to try to get the most out of my Anarchist, so he is nearly as powerful as Witness in this list. It has been working out nicely for me so far.
Gave me a bunch to think about...
Here are the changes I can make right now:
-BOP
-Wall of Roots
-Pardic Arsonist
-Heartwood Storyteller
-Murderous Redcap
+Siege-Gang Commander
+Solemn Simulacrum
+Ondu Giant
+Damnation
+Terastodon
Also will add (but for what, not sure)
Cards I will look into getting for this list:
Kiki-Jiki
Flametongue Kavu
Thanks for the suggestions, this is probably the strangest of my EDH lists, good to see people like the idea behind it. I really like being a unique snowflake in EDH games.
For some perspective, I cut a few more 'hydra' dudes out of my deck on my last sweep. Protean Hydra, the XBBB 'target player loses X life' hydra...
Twitter
I took out Incendiary Command for Wheel of Fortune.
Hopefully it will run well, I think the deck is pretty resistant to countermagic, with all the redundancy it has.
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Cards I wish I added?
Buried Alive and Anethamancer.
Buried Alive is in the mail, unfortunately I could have got it at the shop for cheaper. Learned my lesson.
Anethamancer could have dealt 12+ damage to the guy attacking me, and I could have recast it many times. Seems GOOD. Oops.
I felt like I needed carddraw ALL GAME.
What exactly is a good choice for this deck, specifically, that I am not already running?
I don't know if Arena fits so nicely, but I could make do with it.
Best/funniest play of the game?
Clique his Shapeshifter, targeting his Serra Avatar, attack other guy.
Other guy plays Condemn, I double my life total, Shapeshifter goes away.
The deck felt a little toothless though, I need to find a way to give it some more bite.
Twitter
As far as teeth are concerned... Kamahl, Fist of Krosa can turn your team of utility guys into a giant rampaging army of really strong utility guys. I don't know that a deck like this wants too many "I'd big, hurr..." dorks, so something to make your other guys better seems like the way to go.
Oath is considerably better in the limited spell range games we play. My gy always has more dudes. Always.
Arena is going in.
Library is fine too.
Kamahl is a solid plan as well.
What other pump effects can I run that are stuck on dudes? Hrmmm
Centaur Chieftain?
Vigor?
Twitter
Dudes (39)
1 Duplicant
1 Acidic Slime
1 Anarchist
1 Apocalypse Hydra
1 Mold Shambler
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Bloodfire Colossus
1 Charnelhoard Wurm
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Dusk Urchins
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fertilid
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Thought Gorger
1 Terastodon
1 Lightning Serpent
1 Loaming Shaman
1 Genesis
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Conquering Manticore
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Shriekmaw
1 Spitebellows
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Arashi, the Sky Asunder
1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Diligent Farmhand
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Centaur Chieftain
1 Gleancrawler
1 Artisan of Kozilek
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Disaster Radius
1 Liliana Vess
1 All Suns' Dawn
1 Sylvan Library
1 Harmonize
1 Chain Reaction
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Buried Alive
1 Restock
1 Oath of Ghouls
1 Savage Twister
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Void
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Defense of the Heart
1 Oversold Cemetery
1 Insidious Dreams
1 Krosan Grip
1 Skullclamp
1 Terminate
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Sol Ring
Lands (35)
1 Fungal Reaches
1 Graven Cairns
1 Gruul Turf
1 Kazandu Refuge
1 Molten Slagheap
1 Mossfire Valley
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Rupture Spire
1 Savage Lands
1 Shadowblood Ridge
1 Shivan Oasis
1 Treetop Village
1 Winding Canyons
1 Darigaaz's Caldera
1 Spinerock Knoll
1 Stomping Ground
1 Tresserhorn Sinks
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Twilight Mire
1 Exotic Orchard
1 Dragonskull Summit
6 Forest
3 Mountain
5 Swamp
This is the latest approximation of the deck.
Should I try to put Living Death in there?
Seems like a good fit.
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Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Dude, Recurring Nightmare has been banned in EDH for years.
And I am not shelling out for survival.
Anger is in the deck though, I have to post an updated list.
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