So Zindabad's claim is: random ability that could go either way, and isn't inherently helpful to the town, and a cover for having targeted Axelrod, our dead Doc.
Originally Posted by Gigas1 I find it interesting that you have said more than once that you would make a meta case against AE, but never have. Why did you never actually post it, despite promising to?
I've had poor connectivity since before even Symbiote began - since the last third of Meadows, actually (although I am pleased to announce that since Wed, I now have reliable internet access in my apartment and so my posting levels will rise to appropriate levels again) and as I explained in whichever game I said it in (Symbiote?), doing anything that required many navigations, such as building a case, was difficult.
But you were so sure of yourself it should have come very easy for you to bring that meta forward. You must of had some sense of it to be thinking of it.
But note now you claim that you can admit that you were wrong about me. So that means the meta argument was a lie. If there was actual meta then you would not be wrong.
I am Brown Goo and I am a self-watcher. Every night I watch myself. Last night I targeted Axelrod with my standard targeting ability in the hope that someone might try to kill me or perform some other negative action on me, and with doc protection from Axelrod, I would survive to report it. However, nobody targeted me.
I find something wrong/off with how you performed your action. I asked the mod if I could standard target Axel and investigate elsewhere but he said no because the standard action is the trigger for the other action. Don't know if this is the case with others but thats what he told me.
I am Brown Goo and I am a self-watcher. Every night I watch myself. Last night I targeted Axelrod with my standard targeting ability in the hope that someone might try to kill me or perform some other negative action on me, and with doc protection from Axelrod, I would survive to report it. However, nobody targeted me.
I have no idea why you would do that, but I admit that it actually requires 3 or more people to target me for the ability to trigger, but I was hoping to keep that under wraps to scare people off targeting me at all.
I have no idea why you would do that, but I admit that it actually requires 3 or more people to target me for the ability to trigger, but I was hoping to keep that under wraps to scare people off targeting me at all.
I am Brown Goo and I am a self-watcher. Every night I watch myself. Last night I targeted Axelrod with my standard targeting ability in the hope that someone might try to kill me or perform some other negative action on me, and with doc protection from Axelrod, I would survive to report it. However, nobody targeted me.
I have no idea why you would do that, but I admit that it actually requires 3 or more people to target me for the ability to trigger, but I was hoping to keep that under wraps to scare people off targeting me at all.
You gotta be kidding me. So now you'll know of 3 people targeting you? Your purpose of targeting Axel was so if someone tried to kill you, you would know. Now your saying that wouldn't have worked. LIE AFTER LIE!
Actually, I don't see how anything zindabad says here could change my mind. He's certainly lied about how his ability worked, and I already found him scummy. I believe this puts him at L-1.
vote: zindabad
In case I missed it, did anyone need a random targeting tonight?
Actually, I don't see how anything zindabad says here could change my mind. He's certainly lied about how his ability worked, and I already found him scummy. I believe this puts him at L-1.
vote: zindabad
In case I missed it, did anyone need a random targeting tonight?
In the case it wasn't obvious, he claims nobody targeted him, then Gigas said he did...
EWP: Huh, lynch.
Quote from AE »
You gotta be kidding me. So now you'll know of 3 people targeting you? Your purpose of targeting Axel was so if someone tried to kill you, you would know. Now your saying that wouldn't have worked. LIE AFTER LIE!
I deserved that. I was awful and I apologize to my buddies for playing such a shoddy game.
I was telling the truth about the connectivity issues I had been experiencing, and those severely impacted my ability to contribute to this game, but so did putting Symbiote and South Park ahead of this one on my priority list. So apologies to Dagger too for not giving this game my all.
There is no way I am getting lynched today or any day. The factual evidence produced against me is nonexistent as I have shown, TACKY is plain-as-day bandwagoning scum who has now been encouraged by the seeming willingness of townies who should know better to take his side, various other players have now latched on without adding anything (see vezok x2 and Zchinique) - all of this, and not whatever Cyan was saying about L-4 or whatever, which I don't think I ever even got close to - should tell you the true nature of this wagon.
Looking at the votes on me, I am really shocked by the sheer opportunism going on here. It's a little worrisome that you guys can't (or won't) see it, but I will do what needs doing to nail the scum who are having a go. In particular, I see TACKY and Zchinique as obvious bandwagoners and RR as sideline scum who's egging on the wagon, promising a case that has never come, and lurking in general just as he did in Meadows.
His body shuddered in a jelly-like manner, rippling the outer contour of his skin.
Goo~
zindabad pleaded.
It was not his fault, he cried, why must you all push him so?
Goo~
And indeed, there was a hesitant air around the lynch mob that had spontaneously formed around him.
There was apprehension.
There was anxiety.
There was doubt.
None could forget the mistake of yesterday, when the vicious lynch was triggered.
Nor could one forget the face of one Zajnet, who was terrified for his life, even as he was ripped apart.
But such was reality.
A Goo must die.
Step by tiny step, the Collective must be dig out and exterminated.
Goo~
It was a last desperate attempt at warding off the inevitable.
It was in naught.
The result was not pretty.
But when all was done, and zindabad was unrecognizable, and may his soul rest in the Goo Sky peacefully with the Great Goo above if he really was a good Goo, the truth was revealed.
zindabad - Brown Goo, The Gooseye (Mafia) has been lynched.
There was a sigh of relief.
And time for rest.
Not to mention more pondering to be done.
~~~~~
It is now Night 2.
Night 2 will last for a maximum of 72 hours. Please submit your action choices by PM before then. No posting in the game thread during the Night phase.
Nor do I like this vote very much. Would it have killed you to wait until you got back and could do a proper reread before wagoning? Seems opportunistic after Cyan's post.
There might be some bussing going on here...
I am fully capable of both reading and thinking while being on vacation. I'm sure that makes me special.
That being said, I do agree with this. I mean, I'm not one for excellently thought out vote posts, but that's just bad. He could've said that he would take a closer look at Zindabad later or something, but it goes without explanation.
Also, does anyone find it a bit odd that he's on vacation and has time to make a good enough case for himself to vote someone? I mean, when I have to take a break I don't find myself making strong cases against people..
I made a case?
Why would I say I would take a closer look at Zindabad if I felt I already had a good grasp of the case?
Anyway, while I don't think going down the neutral path is the way to go today, I still think it might be worth disclosing that I spent yesterday being gold. It was not awesome. As far as I know, I got no benefits from it.
* Zchinque puts on his "I spent all day being gold, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" t-shirt.
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I got targeted again last night, by a non-killing ability. I am L-1 now.
I think Flew is probably a good place to look today. I'll have to look at Zindabad's posts again and see what other interactions he had today, but Flew's attitude toward him is enough for now. Vote Flew
I got targeted again last night, by a non-killing ability. I am L-1 now.
You mean it takes one less vote to lynch you, not that it takes only one vote to lynch you.
The guy who did that is either scum or stupid btw.
Quote from Cyan »
I think Flew is probably a good place to look today. I'll have to look at Zindabad's posts again and see what other interactions he had today, but Flew's attitude toward him is enough for now. Vote Flew
What interaction, apart from the only post when I said I would prefer to lynch AI - Which I say to be suspecting of since day 1 ?
Also, that excuse is pretty much the same one that Zindabad himself tried to run D1 in defense of his bad reaction to AE claiming to have been RB'ed. So that's really not helping you.
Lastly, not sure how much of a tell it is, but I find the wording 'which I say to be suspecting of since Day 1' to be awkward. If you were genuinely suspicious of him(and not just a scum faking it), it seems like you would have simply said 'whom I have been suspicious of since Day 1'.
Unlike previous games where he was scum, nothing that AI has done has seemed particularly bad to me. Maybe someone can elaborate on the points against him?
Analysis of zindabad, part 1. This will focus on his posts; part 2 should deal with others reactions to him. Part 2 might take a while, though, as I will not likely have much more time today. Not all posts are quoted/linked, only ones I consider relevant.
84: Votes AE, appears serious but says in later posts that it was random. Assuming he and AE have the history he says they do, this is a null tell.
198: Attacks StormBlind. No real information here: this only reduces the already-minimal chance that SB is mafia running a gambit to zero.
251: Mild support of loran, meta attack on Buranri (now Zebi), states suspicion of AE.
389: Argues against a massclaim. I can recall doing the same thing in Asphodel as scum when a massclaim would actually have been really helpful for us - it's the townie thing to do. I therefore don't take this post as a sign that we should be reconsidering a massclaim.
1150: Continued attack against TACKY, splashes a bit of mud on vezokpiraka and RobRoy.
1166: More arguments with TACKY, mild attacks against vezokpiraka and Zchinque.
1180: Mild attacks against TACKY, Zchinque, RobRoy.
I feel that the Cyan interaction in particular is too honest to be faked, so I'm willing to clear him. AE and TACKY are less clear, but still very good signs for them. No real defence of anyone, so it's hard to pull new targets off his posts, though.
Unless I get a lot more free time than I expect today, part 2 of this analysis won't be available until (probably) tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully this helps people.
I think Flew is probably a good place to look today. I'll have to look at Zindabad's posts again and see what other interactions he had today, but Flew's attitude toward him is enough for now. Vote Flew
Unlike previous games where he was scum, nothing that AI has done has seemed particularly bad to me. Maybe someone can elaborate on the points against him?
His hesitance to vote Zindabad until a veteran like RR said it was a good lynch raised my suspicions
I don't like either the Archmage Eternal or Cyan wagons. The zindabad wagon is fine, but I won't join it without a good case by a good player (RobRoy, it seems) due to my aforementioned skewed read.
I didn't want to have a good player pull the wool over our eyes with the trust people were putting in him.
AE: any idea why you kept your 1-shot through a roleblock?
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Lastly, not sure how much of a tell it is, but I find the wording 'which I say to be suspecting of since Day 1' to be awkward. If you were genuinely suspicious of him(and not just a scum faking it), it seems like you would have simply said 'whom I have been suspicious of since Day 1'.
I'm pretty sure that English isn't Flew's first language though.
AE: any idea why you kept your 1-shot through a roleblock?
The answer to this would be pretty obvious but I'll let AE respond.
**************
Now that I'm all caught up, my reads on players:
Neutral
kpaca + SB - I'm pretty sure that they're both telling the truth, somewhat. The way they are going to play, regardless of what they may try to tell us, is that the one winning will align himself with the winning faction to end the game while he's ahead while the one losing is going to align himself with the losing faction to prolong the game long enough for him to get ahead. It's a very interesting twist on Neutral Survivors.
I'd feel safer not having them around and would appreciate any vig shooting at them. Right now I think the shot should be aimed at SB first. Of course, as soon as one is dead the other becomes a straight-out Neutral Survivor. They should be taken out sooner rather than later (i.e. tonight).
Town
Cyan - At the beginning of the game he seemed quieter than usual but as the game progressed he got more into his usual self. I've agreed with a lot of what he has to say. Additionally, Zindabad's post 579, in which he downplays the ongoing AE wagon in favor of jumping on to Cyan who had little pressure on him at that point, makes little sense for one scum to do to another regardless of AE's alignment (if AE is town, a scum would rather get a mislynch than start a random wagon on his buddy. If AE is scum, a scum would rather buss the buddy going down already instead of starting a wagon on a different buddy).
Zchinque - For the first half of the game I found his posts to be very logical and rational and nodded in agreement when I read them. As the game went on, his posts have lost some of that townieness but based on the first half, I'm reading him as town.
AE - I'm really not a fan of AE's play here and found him to be scum based on behaviour. However, his interactions with Zindabad (i.e. Zindabad trying hard to get him lynched) read genuine and make him unlikely to be scum. Also, his investigation reveal on RR seems unlikely to come from scum motivations (after claiming a RB yesterday he absolved himself of having to commit himself to an investigation which is exactly what a scum wants. It doesn't make sense for him to throw this away today and commit).
TACKY - I didn't like his first couple of posts where he seemed to be throwing dirt in the air and seeing where it would stick but since then he's posted some good stuff. I'll admit that I've skimmed a lot of his posts since they tend to be overly long tl;dr wars but he seems genuine. His interactions with Zindabad speak well of him.
RR - He's been posting sparsely and I don't have much to read on him. Until AE's investigation a couple of posts ago I would have put him in the Little/No-Read category.
Little/No-Read
Powerrox93 - I debated whether to put him under Town or here. His predecessor, Syrenz, asked a lot of good questions. However, he seemed to be posting from the sidelines - as an observer of the situation, not a participant. He seemed reluctant to get his feet wet and because of this I'm putting him here for now, instead of under Town.
falkonn - Some of his posts give me a townie vibe. Not much more than gut here though.
Dancing Mad - His posts are few and far between. I recall liking one or two of his posts but he just hasn't posted enough for me to get a real read on.
Flew - Don't recall much that caught my attention from him. A couple of people seem to find him scummy right now so he might be worth another look.
Zebi - Buranri was a non-entity. Zebi is a bit better than that but I still don't have anything from him.
Talore - I didn't like his early posts. I recall him attacking loran. Since then the main thing I've gotten from his posts is that he doesn't like AI - this is a + point for him, as AI is my only scum pick.
Scum
AsianInvasion- The only person I feel confident is scum.
Top3ReasonsWhyTM:
1. Lots of fencesitting. Ties lots of players alignments together: "If A is scum, B is town." This is a great move from a scum vantage point.
2. Posted a lot fluff. A post that looks like content but doesn't actually add anything to the discussion.
3. Interactions on the Zindabad wagon.
Post 1117 - Doesn't seem to like it. Wants a PBPA on Zindabad before committing.
Post 1130 - Calls out Talore for not having an opinion on Zindabad and accuses him of stalling. Ironic, since AI has also refused to commit on Zindabad and stalled by asking for someone to make a PBPA. In the same post, AI calls the wagon "fine" but doesn't want to join it until someone experienced makes a case.
Post 1157 - Finally commits to the Zindabad wagon after TACKY makes a strong post against Zindabad. Insinuates that Cyan and Zchinque are bussing Zindabad.
Post 1196 - Now calls Cyan and Zchinque town for their interactions with Zindabad. Something isn't genuine here.
Vote AsianInvasion
******
I felt that Zindabad's final slip-up was a bit too picture perfect, what with him directly contradicting what he said just an hour or two prior. I thought that it might have been a setup to allow buddies to slam-dunk him to gain town points. However, with Gigas dead and town, and AE and RR (two of the players who would come out looking better from that) likely town, it looks like I was probably wrong about this.
I'm slightly worried that I see only one scum right now, but I feel pretty confident with my town reads so that narrows down the pool of possibilities quite a bit.
The answer to this would be pretty obvious but I'll let AE respond.
I think I know what the answer will be, but I still want to hear it.
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AE: any idea why you kept your 1-shot through a roleblock?
Now what can possible be gained by this other than the scum possible getting a better idea of how to carry their RB ? I'm just curious why you want to know this.
Now what can possible be gained by this other than the scum possible getting a better idea of how to carry their RB ?[quote] To give me peace of mind?
I really don't see how answering would help the scum. Care to explain your reasoning?
[quote]I'm just curious why you want to know this.
I've my reasons.
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Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
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Batman: Arkham Asylum
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Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Could you even care to much about the neutrals. The answer is no. I think you should put a little more focus on them then the non-neutrals, so you get to know their side.
It's the mafia's job to care about neutrals and the town's job to care about the mafia. If the debate is going on neutrals we lose a lot of opportunities to find the Mafia. Plain and simple.
Now what can possible be gained by this other than the scum possible getting a better idea of how to carry their RB ? I'm just curious why you want to know this.
That's...really not the answer I expected to hear.
It's the mafia's job to care about neutrals and the town's job to care about the mafia. If the debate is going on neutrals we lose a lot of opportunities to find the Mafia. Plain and simple.
Oops, sorry for the triple post but I just realized I forgot to post my notes before.
SB 10 - Neutral claim of wanting to make goo gold. Seems plausible. Only problem I see is that his claimed rival seems to have a much
easier time of things (starts out with more non gold goo and can also make them non-gold) or has a very uninteractive role (can't make them non-gold and
just waits for SB to die). Watch.
Axelrod 18 - Good questioning of SB. Has my problem of SB's claimed rival along with other questions.
Axelrod 21 - Good point about it being a good move for a Cultist to claim this. It grants a nice explanation of what he's doing at night.
But as he goes on in 23, it seems a risky move as it could eaisly be revealed.
SB 26 - Clarifies that he has to outnumber his rival's color of goos not just non-golden. I can buy this typing mistake.
Zchinque 32 - says he'd rather vanilla didn't just target people. I'd tend to agree as it's a situation we don't know much about.
Cyan 35 - another reason why vanillas shouldn't target randomly
SB 37 - his willingness to sacrifice one of his golden goos to prove that he's not a cultist makes me pretty confident that whatever he's up to,
he's not a cultist.
Vezokpiraka 38 - color fish on SB (although it seems that it would be pretty obvious that SB would be golden anywway)
RobRoy 40 - I agree with his assesment that vezokpiraka wanting to be targeted is a nulltell.
vezokpiraka 41 - I'm inclined to call this unhealthly doc speculation. Although I don't really understand the difference between his two options.
loran 50 - I agree with his call for vigging Stormblind. We don't know how much we can trust what he says but at the very least we know that he's
not inherently pro-town. That's a good vig target.
I don't agree with his logic in trying to coordinate targeting. It gives information to the scum and doesn't stop the scum from doing what
he's worried about: targeting their buddies.
RobRoy 51 - Argues against vigging SB since he's likely not cult. True, but we don't know what he is. He could be mafia, he could be anti-town,
he could be exactly what he says. In any of those cases, having him dead is either a good thing or at least not a bad thing. The only case in which him
dying would be bad was if he was town, and we know that's not true.
Talore 54 - Don't like the vote on loran. Loran's opinion is hardly cause for a vote.
loran 58 - Proposed system for catching scum slipping by their claimed targets is not that great. It relies on specific occurences that are not
guaranteed to ever happen. In the meantime we've given a lot of information to the scum.
Axelrod 59 - more ideas why loran's plan would be a bad idea.
Syrenz 60 - even more ideas.
AI 61 - Doesn't like Talore's vote either. +1 for him.
vezokpirak 64 (and others) - calls Chris a rolefish when vezok basically telegraphed his inside knowledge to the whole thread. I don't like how vezok
is playing fast and loose but on the plus side it means he is probably town.
Chris 67 - spot on response.
Flew 68 - even better response
RobRoy 75 - Excellent question to vezoks repeated info vomiting, which of course only leads to...
vezok 76 - ...even more info vomiting
kpaca 77 - a little different than Ghost Town since SB is not claiming to be town but the parallel to Bilbro is correct. Leaving somone around who you
know is not town is not a good idea.
AE 81 - claimed miller is either town or scum. SB is definitely not town. Big difference.
Zindabad 84 - reasons should be obvious? Not to me.
vezokpiraka 86 -
robroy 99 - I don't understand this vote at all.
SB 102 - Craplogic. It's only +town for SB that his competitor is hiding if there is a competitor. As we have only his word on this, it's just as likely
that his competitor doesn't exist.
Zindabad 103 - Try to make random votes more obvious...
kpaca 108 - good post but I don't agree with lynching him. More of a vigging situation.
SB 109 - more of the same craplogic. That he's riding this point so hard is very disconcerting.
kpaca 120 - oooo. Things just got interesting. I'm pretty sure we can right this off as a convoluted mafia gambit as if one of them ever gets
revealed the other is as well. I'm now inclined to believe them both and they seem to be 'nice' neutrals. I think they can be left alone to fight it
out.
Syrenz 130 (and others) - Asking good questions
vezok 150 - a neutral hint? not sure what he's saying
talore 154 - not that it really matters since they're both likely telling the truth but dagger updating SB's PM only confirms them if you already
believe SB. Otherwise he could just be lying. So it's a pointless confirmation.
loran 172 - the thought occurred to me but it would be highly risky. One goes down accidentally so does the other. I think the high risk puts it out of
the realm of worry. If someone has an extra vig they don't plan on using that wouldn't be the worst place to shoot though.
Axelrod 174 - I didn't think through the possiblity of them playing kingmaker. That would be quite swingy.
Cyan 184 - Interesting thought but I'm not sure I agree.They can certainly dangerous even if telling the truth but them colluding and lying seems
unlikely.
Zchinque 229 - good point about vezok suddenly going quite as well as Talore's copdirecting.
Tacky 237- some good points but I'm concerned at how he just fires off in every direction and doesn't actually settle on anything.
Vezok 239, AE 240 - 2 quick barn votes.
Flew 252 - Good analysis. I'm vacillating between talore scum (based on play) or talore town (based on AI's behaviour toward him)
ced 260 - hmm I think my predescceor is misguided here.
AE 265 - advocating lynching a very likely neutral. Bad bad bad. I'm pretty sure AE is scum who got carried away with how all the conversation was
centered on neutrals and decided to try his luck at getting them to be the lynch.
AE 269 - bad attempt at justifying his stance
Cyan 273 - Exactly
TACKy 282 - I don't particularly dislike his back and forth with loran but I don't like the vote. I don't like anyone voting Loran.
AE - quick defeatism
Cyan 293 - yup
AI 305 - this recap bugs me. It didn't add anything and basically seems like a placeholder post so as not to get called out for not saying anything
jobo 328 - I have no idea where this post is coming from
jobo 339 - massclaim D1. no thanks
axelrod 400, 401 - good catch on jobo contradiction
AI 423 - I don't like AI's continued evasion of taking a stance on joboman or AI. He seems to be riding it out until one gets a heavy wagon.
AI 427 - seems to reference that he's voting one of them, so my above comment may be invalid.
Cyan 486 and others - finally seems to be getting into more normal Cyan posting style
AE 501 - one shot cop is a perfect scum claim as far as I can see. Cop is always an easy claim for scum but making it one shot reduces the problem
of having to clear a townie each night or claim a roleblock and why you aren't dead.
Axelrod 510 - letting him live another day seems fine beneficial. THe only risk is if he has some nasty scum ability to use tonight.
kpaca 556 - this post just pisses me off because there is a downside to letting AE-scum live and that is that he gets to use a scum ability at night
if he has one. That's not something to ignore. I do think the positives outweigh this but overstating the case and saying there's no downside is
patently false.
joboman 587 - unless joboman means Axelrod the doctor here this post makes no sense
AI 600 - AI is starting to bother me a lot. Here is another post in which he posts what is essiantly a large amount of fluff since he posts a lot of
anslysis which doesn't actually come out with anything. Even when giving tentative feelings about player's alignments he tends to lump them in and make
them contingent on other players.
loran 609 - Kraj? O.o I guess another typo lol
kpaca 638 - kpaca's single-mindedness on Cyan rivals well... Cyan.
flew 660 - pay attention?
RR 666 - I don't have any problem with the actual reasoning for the vote on Bilbro (me). But I don't like this line: "Since Bilbro has given me
literally nothing else to read him on, I have no counterbalancing townie reads, and will unvote, vote: Bilbroxain." Which seems to me like an
overjustification for his vote.
vezok 671 - role vomiting then there was a period of quite but now it looks like he's back to rolevomiting. The problem I have with vezok is deciding
whether he's really that bad as town that he will give up vital role info for little reason or if he's crafty enough scum to give off this impression.
AI - finally takes a solid stance
RR 694, 695 - excellent catch on vezokpiraka
Vezok 702 - I can buy that vezok is just very bad town.THe alternative at this point is really excellent scum.
joboman 729 - nice appeal to attacker or whatever you want to call it
zchinque 773 - I believe the one-shot speculation was because of the flavor he gave which seems genuine
kpaca 793 - quit being kpaca, kpaca
Joboman 828 - the only vote on zajnet that's been scummy so far. Why mini-pbpa him when TACKY just did so? It adds nothing except that he's
self-conscious about throwing a naked barn vote on and so puts up some fluff to make himself feel better.
axelrod 834 - lol
AI 835 - *bwee-oop* *bwee-oop* scum plotting detected. AI is already insinuating that Zajnet's wagon was scum-driven. I think that there was few
scum on Zajnet and scum-AI wants to exploit this. If AI is scum, everybody on Zajnet's wagon gets town points. It could be entirely innocent however.
The point is that if AI is scum then Cyan is overwhelmingly likely to be town.
joboman 844 - Hmm? Unless this is inside knowledge showing through, I don't see how that post would dissuade you.
Talore - 856 - uses a bad flavor argument to try to push Zaj lynch forward.
AI 892 - contradicts 887
loran 941 - oh nice point on AI here
AI 1058 - calls a zajnet/cyan double lynch "a mislynch or two". Does this jive with previous opinions?
zindabad 1100 - voting AE
Cyan 1103 - But then wouldn't they attract suspicion for not getting RBed? Why would scum not RB a one-shot cop who could potentially out one of them?
SB 1109 - same thing as above to you. If there is a town one-shot cop, then the obvious move for scum is to RB him. In whichcase, a scum trying
to fake this would claim that he got RBed...
Cyan 1110 - the only thing AE has going for him right now is Zindabad's behaviour toward him.
AI 1117 - L-4 the new claim threshold? No sirree. And the question to AE is more fishing.
kpaca 1123 - that's a lie heh. I know you've said this before in at least one game before, maybe more.
gigas 1183 - town points for clinching the case against Zindabad. However, given that it seemed pretty likely that he would be getting lynched anyway,
with a claim not likely to save him, and also given that zindabad's response is so horribly bad especially considering that he'd just claimed the
ability a couple of hours prior, I'm slightly worried about the possiblity of a scum setup here. Especially if the scum have daytalk, this could just be
a ruse to give Gigas townie points ofr slam-dunking Zindabad when he was going down anyway.
AI 1196 - Now has Cyan and Zchinque on his town list after implying in 1157 that they were scum bussing Zindabad. What gives?
Top3: You're obviously not a newcomer to either the game or the people here. I'm assuming gimmick, although there's always the chance you're a long-time lurker first-time player, or an import from another site. Care to illuminate me?
It's the mafia's job to care about neutrals and the town's job to care about the mafia. If the debate is going on neutrals we lose a lot of opportunities to find the Mafia. Plain and simple.
And that's exactly what I implied... Some stuff that doesn't begin to address his wagon.
Do you realize that you are the player who is currently closest to being lynched? Why aren't you even attempting to convince us that you are town?
Going through my zindabad reread for part 2 of my analysis, hoping to have that up later today. Found my attack on Bilbroxain again, and am leaving this post as a reminder for me to take another look at him. I was thrown when I realized I'd missed that he was a replacement, and abandoned my real issue with him.
I'm sure I've been in a game or two with you. Good job ignoring my points on you and brushing them off with your vague self meta :thumbsup:.
I'll paraphrase what you just said to Flew: Why aren't you trying to convince me that you're town?
And: "Some stuff that doesn't begin to address the points I made."
I'm not sure how you made your post without noticing the irony.
Hi :ria:.
Actually, I don't think any of your points make me look worse than the players in your "Little/No-Read" category and I'm wondering why you only have one scum read.
1. Lots of fencesitting. Ties lots of players alignments together: "If A is scum, B is town." This is a great move from a scum vantage point.
I guess you failed to pick up on the fact that I was explaining how I deduce my reads. I never intended to state unerringly that one player's alignment could be determined by another's, simply that knowing one's would make it easier for me to surmise the other's.
2. Posted a lot fluff. A post that looks like content but doesn't actually add anything to the discussion.
Do you have quotes to back up that statement?
3. Interactions on the Zindabad wagon.
Post 1117 - Doesn't seem to like it. Wants a PBPA on Zindabad before committing.
I have plainly stated that I have a biased read of zindabad and always see him as scum. This is simply being honest to the other players. Also as stated, as scum I tend to aggressively bus my buddies early game. Feel free to check my old scum games yourself.
Post 1130 - Calls out Talore for not having an opinion on Zindabad and accuses him of stalling. Ironic, since AI has also refused to commit on Zindabad and stalled by asking for someone to make a PBPA. In the same post, AI calls the wagon "fine" but doesn't want to join it until someone experienced makes a case.
Of course I called out Talore for being noncommittal because he has no such bias against zindabad and therefore should have come up with something by that point.
Post 1157 - Finally commits to the Zindabad wagon after TACKY makes a strong post against Zindabad. Insinuates that Cyan and Zchinque are bussing Zindabad.
Didn't I say that a good case would sway me? Lo and behold, I made good on my word. I think it would have been much worse if I had said, "Nice case bro, but I'm still not voting."
You should know that I've been calling Cyan town ever since his claim. I still have reservations about him but his role (if true) only makes sense as town, largely due to the power of his Hidden Trigger on scum. As for Zchinque, his vote without any support looked terrible. However, his response to my post here was pretty townie.
Post 1196 - Now calls Cyan and Zchinque town for their interactions with Zindabad. Something isn't genuine here.
So this point is moot.
I suggest you reread your those you have no read on. You're bound to find something noteworthy.
One last thing of note: zindabad posted his apology to his scumbuddies in public so it's likely that the scum don't have daytalk.
Part 2: reactions to zindabad. This will serve as a counterpart to my analysis of zindabad's posts themselves, shown here.
91: Syrenz is the first to question zindabad for his vote on AE. I consider this a point in Syrenz' (now Powerrox93's) favour. Similar sentiments were also expressed by AsianI and TACKY. After zindabad clarified that it was a random vote, he was questioned by Talore and falkonn. No real value to those reads.
253: Syrenz (Powerrox93) disagrees with zindabad's push against Buranri (Zebi).
280: AsianI responds to much of zindabad's post 251. Not the kind of thing you often see mafioso doing with each other due to linkage. Minor townie points to AI.
425: AsianI responds to zindabad's post 424, calling him out for unsupported meta references.
444: Just realized that I was discounting the neutrals (SB and kpaca) in this writeup, and don't feel like redoing it. kpaca was mildly supportive of zindabad earlier, SB calls him scum here. I don't really feel like either of these behaviours change the way I feel about the neutrals.
600: AsianI posts that he thinks there are two scum in the set of zindabad (now dead scum), Cyan, AE, and joboman (now Gigas1, dead town). He fails to back up his "exactly two scum" hypothesis, though.
716: AE responds to zindabad saying that AE was only scum twice (actually three times). No real read here.
758: AsianI again states suspicion of zindabad and asks others to comment.
904: AsianI again expresses suspicion of zindabad.
938: Dancing Mad puts zindabad in his "Mixed/no read" category when making a list of players. No real read here - zindabad really hadn't posted much at this point.
981: AsianI is the first to respond to zindabad saying that AE should be wanting to target him. Zchinque also follows up.
1092: Cyan expresses doubt of zindabad. AsianI and Gigas1 agree.
1103: Cyan begins an attack on zindabad. AE joins shortly, followed by SB and vezokpiraka, and the zindabad wagon is on.
1117: AsianI calls for the zindabad wagon to slow down long enough for votes to be based on analysis. In 1130 he says that he likes the zindabad wagon, but won't join without support from good players, naming RobRoy specifically.
After that, zindabad is the main focus of discussion, so anyone wanting to read people's reactions should just read everything. To summarize: Archmage Eternal and TACKY have several back-and-forths with him, with Cyan and AsianI contributing. kpaca and Flew are dissenting voices.
Overall, I can't see AsianInvasion being co-scum with zindabad, as he expressed suspicion of him multiple times when nobody else was. TACKY's interactions with zindabad during the wagon is also a strong point in his favour. AE is likely clear as well. Cyan doesn't come out of this looking quite as good as he did in part 1 of the analysis, but still isn't worth looking at at this point, especially with his claimed ability and downside. Minor props also to Syrenz, and minor scum points to Flew.
Based on the combination of this and part 1, I do not believe AI, AE, Cyan or TACKY are valid lynch choices. Unfortunately, I don't have that much of anyone to actually go after. Top3 replaced Bil, who as I mentioned before I was suspicious of, and I'm going to wait to give him more time before attacking him. Flew might be worth going after, but I can recall rereading him before and not being convinced. I'll see if I can get another look in later.
Going through my zindabad reread for part 2 of my analysis, hoping to have that up later today. Found my attack on Bilbroxain again, and am leaving this post as a reminder for me to take another look at him. I was thrown when I realized I'd missed that he was a replacement, and abandoned my real issue with him.
Actually, I don't think any of your points make me look worse than the players in your "Little/No-Read" category and I'm wondering why you only have one scum read.
Except that most of the players in my Little/No Read category have done nothing worth commenting on.
I'm also wondering why I only have one scum read. I'm pretty sure it's because the scum tactic in this game is to say nothing of consequence. In other words, all those players that I don't have a read on may be trying to lurk their way to victory. But that's just a hunch and you're the only with scummy actions.
I guess you failed to pick up on the fact that I was explaining how I deduce my reads. I never intended to state unerringly that one player's alignment could be determined by another's, simply that knowing one's would make it easier for me to surmise the other's.
Sure. My point is though, that this is the type of statement that is much more beneficial to scum, with their advantage of foresight of alignment. It's great to say "One of X and Y are scum" when you know that they're both town. You lynch one, hey look he was town! This means that the other one has to be the scum.
I don't mind a little bit of linkage; everyone does that. The problem is the quantity of your linkage and the fact that it comes before any of their alignments are revealed.
Out of Cyan, zindabad, joboman, and Archmage Eternal, I think there are two scum.
Rereading the connections between these players should prove enlightening.
Cyan & zindabad: zindabad recently voted Cyan. Cyan strawmanned by attacking the discrepancy between the amount of evidence Cyan claims to have contributed to the AE case relative to the amount zindabad describes.
Cyan & joboman: Cyan said a while back he thinks joboman is town for proposing a mass claim and then a targeting claim. joboman said he thinks Cyan and AE are scumbuddies and that Cyan is bussing AE like he bussed joboman in Anita Blake.
Cyan & AE: Cyan has been after AE for what feels like half the game, only to relent based on RobRoy's analysis of the situation. AE seems to be unsure if Cyan is scum, using language like "if in fact you are town."
zindabad & joboman: Almost nothing here. I am really considering doing a reread on these two because from what I've seen of zindabad's scum meta he tends to completely ignore his buddies, while joboman rarely buses, and would never attack a player like zindabad who displays no obvious weaknesses.
zindabad & AE: zindabad seems sure that AE is scum, and even goes so far as to reference practically all of AE's scum games but without specific details as to how this relates to the current situation; if he can provide reasonable proof then I would like to see it. AE's argument in his defense seems to be "those were a long time ago." That zindabad is maintaining that AE is scum but moving his vote to Cyan makes me leery as well.
joboman & AE: These two have been at each other's throats before anyone else I mentioned came into play. I still doubt that these two are on the same side; one is town and the other is scum.
Recap:
Archmage Eternal is scummy for flip-flopping on loran and acting panicky under minimal pressure.
Flew is scummy for calling me scum but not voting.
TACKY is scummy for FoSing multiple people, then driving weak wagons.
loran is not scummy.
We are vigging kpaca and StormBlind, likely in that order.
Other than that, I've got nothing.
*sigh* I guess I'll reread later tonight.
I have plainly stated that I have a biased read of zindabad and always see him as scum. This is simply being honest to the other players. Also as stated, as scum I tend to aggressively bus my buddies early game. Feel free to check my old scum games yourself.
I'll be sure to give that self-meta the importance it deserves :cool2:.
Of course I called out Talore for being noncommittal because he has no such bias against zindabad and therefore should have come up with something by that point.
Meh.
Didn't I say that a good case would sway me? Lo and behold, I made good on my word. I think it would have been much worse if I had said, "Nice case bro, but I'm still not voting."
Not really. I fully expected you to vote Zindabad if a good case on him materialized. There's no way you would completely hold off a scumbuddy's wagon in such an obvious manner when he was going down. But what you did is what I would expect from a buddy unsure about whether to commit to bussing his buddy or to wait it out and see if his buddy can survive: You expressed that you thought Zindabad was scummy while the wagon started building but only actually lent it your full support and vote once a solid case appeared and it looked very likely that Zindabad would be lynched.
You should know that I've been calling Cyan town ever since his claim. I still have reservations about him but his role (if true) only makes sense as town, largely due to the power of his Hidden Trigger on scum. As for Zchinque, his vote without any support looked terrible. However, his response to my post here was pretty townie.
So this point is moot.
OK. You're right.
I suggest you reread your those you have no read on. You're bound to find something noteworthy.
Don't worry, I plan on. If this was an attempt to get me off you and focus on other players though then bear in mind that I can focus on multiple people at once.
Also, I liked your initial vote on Talore, as I thought his vote on Loran was way too hasty with little reason. However I noticed this post:
Talore, how many games have you played? Unvote in anticipation of answer.
Did you know that Talore was a new player when you voted him?
I'm having trouble figuring it out. On the one hand you're asking Talore the question here, implying that you didn't know he was new but then you unvote in anticipation of the answer which implies that you know what the answer is going to be.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Can we lynch him now?
But you were so sure of yourself it should have come very easy for you to bring that meta forward. You must of had some sense of it to be thinking of it.
But note now you claim that you can admit that you were wrong about me. So that means the meta argument was a lie. If there was actual meta then you would not be wrong.
I find something wrong/off with how you performed your action. I asked the mod if I could standard target Axel and investigate elsewhere but he said no because the standard action is the trigger for the other action. Don't know if this is the case with others but thats what he told me.
vote stands.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I targeted you last night. Any answer?
I have no idea why you would do that, but I admit that it actually requires 3 or more people to target me for the ability to trigger, but I was hoping to keep that under wraps to scare people off targeting me at all.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I don't see how that meshes with this:
Any response?
You gotta be kidding me. So now you'll know of 3 people targeting you? Your purpose of targeting Axel was so if someone tried to kill you, you would know. Now your saying that wouldn't have worked. LIE AFTER LIE!
They hate us cause they ain't us.
vote: zindabad
In case I missed it, did anyone need a random targeting tonight?
Nope thats a lynch.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
In the case it wasn't obvious, he claims nobody targeted him, then Gigas said he did...
EWP: Huh, lynch.
+1
Vote: Zindabad
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
Hmm... did you realise that he wass lynched already...?
See Tales of Vesperia mafia at the end of day 1
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
I was telling the truth about the connectivity issues I had been experiencing, and those severely impacted my ability to contribute to this game, but so did putting Symbiote and South Park ahead of this one on my priority list. So apologies to Dagger too for not giving this game my all.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Town:
TACKY
vezokpiraka
Zchinique
Cyan
RobRoy
Seems good.
You die tomorrow.
zindabad (10) - Cyan, Archmage Eternal, StormBlind, TACKY, Zchinque, AsianInvasion, vezokpiraka, Gigas1, Talore, RobRoy
AsianInvasion (1) - kpaca
TACKY (1) - zindabad
With 18 Goo alive, it’s 10 Goo to Lynch.
A Lynch has occurred as of this post.
~~~~~
Goo~
zindabad wailed.
His body shuddered in a jelly-like manner, rippling the outer contour of his skin.
Goo~
zindabad pleaded.
It was not his fault, he cried, why must you all push him so?
Goo~
And indeed, there was a hesitant air around the lynch mob that had spontaneously formed around him.
There was apprehension.
There was anxiety.
There was doubt.
None could forget the mistake of yesterday, when the vicious lynch was triggered.
Nor could one forget the face of one Zajnet, who was terrified for his life, even as he was ripped apart.
But such was reality.
A Goo must die.
Step by tiny step, the Collective must be dig out and exterminated.
Goo~
It was a last desperate attempt at warding off the inevitable.
It was in naught.
The result was not pretty.
But when all was done, and zindabad was unrecognizable, and may his soul rest in the Goo Sky peacefully with the Great Goo above if he really was a good Goo, the truth was revealed.
zindabad - Brown Goo, The Gooseye (Mafia) has been lynched.
There was a sigh of relief.
And time for rest.
Not to mention more pondering to be done.
~~~~~
It is now Night 2.
Night 2 will last for a maximum of 72 hours. Please submit your action choices by PM before then. No posting in the game thread during the Night phase.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
And woke up you did.
But there was no scream.
You felt almost disappointed.
There was only the mustiness of a hall that was sealed too long.
You were starting to doze off again.
Then there was a scream.
You brushed it off as something that was hovering on the fringe of your dreams.
It was only when that scream was joined by the rushing crowd of bouncing Goo in various colors that you realized it was for real this time.
In less than a second, you were part of that rushing crowd.
Something exploded.
A few pieces of flaming bits hit your face.
You flinched.
Then you plunged onward.
To one rather secluded corner of the hall, you saw the entire scene all over again, eerily similar to yesterday.
A scorch mark on the ground littered with flaming rapidly-dwindling flesh.
Déjà vu.
A check was done on the identity of the dead Goo.
vezokpiraka – Black Goo, The Goo of all Trades (Town) has been killed.
And as expected, to another side of the hall was another body.
This particular one seemed to have been pummeled into the ground and torn apart.
The identity of the second dead Goo was checked.
Gigas1 – Maroon Goo, The Gootroller (Town) has been killed.
It was tragic.
You mourned for their loss.
But yesterday’s lynch gave you all hope.
There was a resolve to prevent such deaths from continuing for far too long.
~~~~~
It is now Day 3.
With 15 Goo alive, it’s 8 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
I am fully capable of both reading and thinking while being on vacation. I'm sure that makes me special.
I made a case?
Why would I say I would take a closer look at Zindabad if I felt I already had a good grasp of the case?
Anyway, while I don't think going down the neutral path is the way to go today, I still think it might be worth disclosing that I spent yesterday being gold. It was not awesome. As far as I know, I got no benefits from it.
* Zchinque puts on his "I spent all day being gold, and all I got was this lousy t-shirt" t-shirt.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
I think Flew is probably a good place to look today. I'll have to look at Zindabad's posts again and see what other interactions he had today, but Flew's attitude toward him is enough for now. Vote Flew
The guy who did that is either scum or stupid btw.
What interaction, apart from the only post when I said I would prefer to lynch AI - Which I say to be suspecting of since day 1 ?
[The Family] pressed the "lynch" button, thinking it was labeled "lunch" .
And that IS an interaction.
Also, that excuse is pretty much the same one that Zindabad himself tried to run D1 in defense of his bad reaction to AE claiming to have been RB'ed. So that's really not helping you.
Lastly, not sure how much of a tell it is, but I find the wording 'which I say to be suspecting of since Day 1' to be awkward. If you were genuinely suspicious of him(and not just a scum faking it), it seems like you would have simply said 'whom I have been suspicious of since Day 1'.
Vote AsianInvasion
84: Votes AE, appears serious but says in later posts that it was random. Assuming he and AE have the history he says they do, this is a null tell.
198: Attacks StormBlind. No real information here: this only reduces the already-minimal chance that SB is mafia running a gambit to zero.
251: Mild support of loran, meta attack on Buranri (now Zebi), states suspicion of AE.
389: Argues against a massclaim. I can recall doing the same thing in Asphodel as scum when a massclaim would actually have been really helpful for us - it's the townie thing to do. I therefore don't take this post as a sign that we should be reconsidering a massclaim.
424: Strong attack against AE.
579: Backs off AE for a strong attack against Cyan.
871: Defends Zajnet, mild attacks on Flew and Bil, continues to express suspicion of AE, promises to attack Cyan.
1100: Further suspicion of neutrals, restarts attack on AE.
1129: Clarifies that 1100 was not an attack on falkonn. Defends self against AE and Cyan, attacks TACKY.
1143: OMGUS against AsianI.
1150: Continued attack against TACKY, splashes a bit of mud on vezokpiraka and RobRoy.
1166: More arguments with TACKY, mild attacks against vezokpiraka and Zchinque.
1180: Mild attacks against TACKY, Zchinque, RobRoy.
I feel that the Cyan interaction in particular is too honest to be faked, so I'm willing to clear him. AE and TACKY are less clear, but still very good signs for them. No real defence of anyone, so it's hard to pull new targets off his posts, though.
Unless I get a lot more free time than I expect today, part 2 of this analysis won't be available until (probably) tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully this helps people.
OK.
I'll make good on my word.
Same.
Talore still hasn't convinced me that he knows the difference.
@Archmage Eternal: What happened last Night?
Vote Flew
His hesitance to vote Zindabad until a veteran like RR said it was a good lynch raised my suspicions
I targeted you. RobRoy came up town.
Yeah I still had my ability. The RB prevented me from being able to target.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Quotes like these.
I didn't want to have a good player pull the wool over our eyes with the trust people were putting in him.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
I'm pretty sure that English isn't Flew's first language though.
The answer to this would be pretty obvious but I'll let AE respond.
**************
Now that I'm all caught up, my reads on players:
Neutral
kpaca + SB - I'm pretty sure that they're both telling the truth, somewhat. The way they are going to play, regardless of what they may try to tell us, is that the one winning will align himself with the winning faction to end the game while he's ahead while the one losing is going to align himself with the losing faction to prolong the game long enough for him to get ahead. It's a very interesting twist on Neutral Survivors.
I'd feel safer not having them around and would appreciate any vig shooting at them. Right now I think the shot should be aimed at SB first. Of course, as soon as one is dead the other becomes a straight-out Neutral Survivor. They should be taken out sooner rather than later (i.e. tonight).
Town
Cyan - At the beginning of the game he seemed quieter than usual but as the game progressed he got more into his usual self. I've agreed with a lot of what he has to say. Additionally, Zindabad's post 579, in which he downplays the ongoing AE wagon in favor of jumping on to Cyan who had little pressure on him at that point, makes little sense for one scum to do to another regardless of AE's alignment (if AE is town, a scum would rather get a mislynch than start a random wagon on his buddy. If AE is scum, a scum would rather buss the buddy going down already instead of starting a wagon on a different buddy).
Zchinque - For the first half of the game I found his posts to be very logical and rational and nodded in agreement when I read them. As the game went on, his posts have lost some of that townieness but based on the first half, I'm reading him as town.
AE - I'm really not a fan of AE's play here and found him to be scum based on behaviour. However, his interactions with Zindabad (i.e. Zindabad trying hard to get him lynched) read genuine and make him unlikely to be scum. Also, his investigation reveal on RR seems unlikely to come from scum motivations (after claiming a RB yesterday he absolved himself of having to commit himself to an investigation which is exactly what a scum wants. It doesn't make sense for him to throw this away today and commit).
TACKY - I didn't like his first couple of posts where he seemed to be throwing dirt in the air and seeing where it would stick but since then he's posted some good stuff. I'll admit that I've skimmed a lot of his posts since they tend to be overly long tl;dr wars but he seems genuine. His interactions with Zindabad speak well of him.
RR - He's been posting sparsely and I don't have much to read on him. Until AE's investigation a couple of posts ago I would have put him in the Little/No-Read category.
Little/No-Read
Powerrox93 - I debated whether to put him under Town or here. His predecessor, Syrenz, asked a lot of good questions. However, he seemed to be posting from the sidelines - as an observer of the situation, not a participant. He seemed reluctant to get his feet wet and because of this I'm putting him here for now, instead of under Town.
falkonn - Some of his posts give me a townie vibe. Not much more than gut here though.
Dancing Mad - His posts are few and far between. I recall liking one or two of his posts but he just hasn't posted enough for me to get a real read on.
Flew - Don't recall much that caught my attention from him. A couple of people seem to find him scummy right now so he might be worth another look.
Zebi - Buranri was a non-entity. Zebi is a bit better than that but I still don't have anything from him.
Talore - I didn't like his early posts. I recall him attacking loran. Since then the main thing I've gotten from his posts is that he doesn't like AI - this is a + point for him, as AI is my only scum pick.
Scum
AsianInvasion- The only person I feel confident is scum.
Top3ReasonsWhyTM:
1. Lots of fencesitting. Ties lots of players alignments together: "If A is scum, B is town." This is a great move from a scum vantage point.
2. Posted a lot fluff. A post that looks like content but doesn't actually add anything to the discussion.
3. Interactions on the Zindabad wagon.
Post 1117 - Doesn't seem to like it. Wants a PBPA on Zindabad before committing.
Post 1130 - Calls out Talore for not having an opinion on Zindabad and accuses him of stalling. Ironic, since AI has also refused to commit on Zindabad and stalled by asking for someone to make a PBPA. In the same post, AI calls the wagon "fine" but doesn't want to join it until someone experienced makes a case.
Post 1157 - Finally commits to the Zindabad wagon after TACKY makes a strong post against Zindabad. Insinuates that Cyan and Zchinque are bussing Zindabad.
Post 1196 - Now calls Cyan and Zchinque town for their interactions with Zindabad. Something isn't genuine here.
Vote AsianInvasion
******
I felt that Zindabad's final slip-up was a bit too picture perfect, what with him directly contradicting what he said just an hour or two prior. I thought that it might have been a setup to allow buddies to slam-dunk him to gain town points. However, with Gigas dead and town, and AE and RR (two of the players who would come out looking better from that) likely town, it looks like I was probably wrong about this.
I'm slightly worried that I see only one scum right now, but I feel pretty confident with my town reads so that narrows down the pool of possibilities quite a bit.
Mod text removed.
I think I know what the answer will be, but I still want to hear it.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Now what can possible be gained by this other than the scum possible getting a better idea of how to carry their RB ? I'm just curious why you want to know this.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I've my reasons.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
And that's exactly what I implied...
[The Family] pressed the "lynch" button, thinking it was labeled "lunch" .
That's...really not the answer I expected to hear.
This is not true.
SB 10 - Neutral claim of wanting to make goo gold. Seems plausible. Only problem I see is that his claimed rival seems to have a much
easier time of things (starts out with more non gold goo and can also make them non-gold) or has a very uninteractive role (can't make them non-gold and
just waits for SB to die). Watch.
Axelrod 18 - Good questioning of SB. Has my problem of SB's claimed rival along with other questions.
Axelrod 21 - Good point about it being a good move for a Cultist to claim this. It grants a nice explanation of what he's doing at night.
But as he goes on in 23, it seems a risky move as it could eaisly be revealed.
SB 26 - Clarifies that he has to outnumber his rival's color of goos not just non-golden. I can buy this typing mistake.
Zchinque 32 - says he'd rather vanilla didn't just target people. I'd tend to agree as it's a situation we don't know much about.
Cyan 35 - another reason why vanillas shouldn't target randomly
SB 37 - his willingness to sacrifice one of his golden goos to prove that he's not a cultist makes me pretty confident that whatever he's up to,
he's not a cultist.
Vezokpiraka 38 - color fish on SB (although it seems that it would be pretty obvious that SB would be golden anywway)
RobRoy 40 - I agree with his assesment that vezokpiraka wanting to be targeted is a nulltell.
vezokpiraka 41 - I'm inclined to call this unhealthly doc speculation. Although I don't really understand the difference between his two options.
loran 50 - I agree with his call for vigging Stormblind. We don't know how much we can trust what he says but at the very least we know that he's
not inherently pro-town. That's a good vig target.
I don't agree with his logic in trying to coordinate targeting. It gives information to the scum and doesn't stop the scum from doing what
he's worried about: targeting their buddies.
RobRoy 51 - Argues against vigging SB since he's likely not cult. True, but we don't know what he is. He could be mafia, he could be anti-town,
he could be exactly what he says. In any of those cases, having him dead is either a good thing or at least not a bad thing. The only case in which him
dying would be bad was if he was town, and we know that's not true.
Talore 54 - Don't like the vote on loran. Loran's opinion is hardly cause for a vote.
loran 58 - Proposed system for catching scum slipping by their claimed targets is not that great. It relies on specific occurences that are not
guaranteed to ever happen. In the meantime we've given a lot of information to the scum.
Axelrod 59 - more ideas why loran's plan would be a bad idea.
Syrenz 60 - even more ideas.
AI 61 - Doesn't like Talore's vote either. +1 for him.
vezokpirak 64 (and others) - calls Chris a rolefish when vezok basically telegraphed his inside knowledge to the whole thread. I don't like how vezok
is playing fast and loose but on the plus side it means he is probably town.
Chris 67 - spot on response.
Flew 68 - even better response
RobRoy 75 - Excellent question to vezoks repeated info vomiting, which of course only leads to...
vezok 76 - ...even more info vomiting
kpaca 77 - a little different than Ghost Town since SB is not claiming to be town but the parallel to Bilbro is correct. Leaving somone around who you
know is not town is not a good idea.
AE 81 - claimed miller is either town or scum. SB is definitely not town. Big difference.
Zindabad 84 - reasons should be obvious? Not to me.
vezokpiraka 86 -
robroy 99 - I don't understand this vote at all.
SB 102 - Craplogic. It's only +town for SB that his competitor is hiding if there is a competitor. As we have only his word on this, it's just as likely
that his competitor doesn't exist.
Zindabad 103 - Try to make random votes more obvious...
kpaca 108 - good post but I don't agree with lynching him. More of a vigging situation.
SB 109 - more of the same craplogic. That he's riding this point so hard is very disconcerting.
kpaca 120 - oooo. Things just got interesting. I'm pretty sure we can right this off as a convoluted mafia gambit as if one of them ever gets
revealed the other is as well. I'm now inclined to believe them both and they seem to be 'nice' neutrals. I think they can be left alone to fight it
out.
Syrenz 130 (and others) - Asking good questions
vezok 150 - a neutral hint? not sure what he's saying
talore 154 - not that it really matters since they're both likely telling the truth but dagger updating SB's PM only confirms them if you already
believe SB. Otherwise he could just be lying. So it's a pointless confirmation.
loran 172 - the thought occurred to me but it would be highly risky. One goes down accidentally so does the other. I think the high risk puts it out of
the realm of worry. If someone has an extra vig they don't plan on using that wouldn't be the worst place to shoot though.
Axelrod 174 - I didn't think through the possiblity of them playing kingmaker. That would be quite swingy.
Cyan 184 - Interesting thought but I'm not sure I agree.They can certainly dangerous even if telling the truth but them colluding and lying seems
unlikely.
Zchinque 229 - good point about vezok suddenly going quite as well as Talore's copdirecting.
Tacky 237- some good points but I'm concerned at how he just fires off in every direction and doesn't actually settle on anything.
Vezok 239, AE 240 - 2 quick barn votes.
Flew 252 - Good analysis. I'm vacillating between talore scum (based on play) or talore town (based on AI's behaviour toward him)
ced 260 - hmm I think my predescceor is misguided here.
AE 265 - advocating lynching a very likely neutral. Bad bad bad. I'm pretty sure AE is scum who got carried away with how all the conversation was
centered on neutrals and decided to try his luck at getting them to be the lynch.
AE 269 - bad attempt at justifying his stance
Cyan 273 - Exactly
TACKy 282 - I don't particularly dislike his back and forth with loran but I don't like the vote. I don't like anyone voting Loran.
AE - quick defeatism
Cyan 293 - yup
AI 305 - this recap bugs me. It didn't add anything and basically seems like a placeholder post so as not to get called out for not saying anything
jobo 328 - I have no idea where this post is coming from
jobo 339 - massclaim D1. no thanks
axelrod 400, 401 - good catch on jobo contradiction
AI 423 - I don't like AI's continued evasion of taking a stance on joboman or AI. He seems to be riding it out until one gets a heavy wagon.
AI 427 - seems to reference that he's voting one of them, so my above comment may be invalid.
Cyan 486 and others - finally seems to be getting into more normal Cyan posting style
AE 501 - one shot cop is a perfect scum claim as far as I can see. Cop is always an easy claim for scum but making it one shot reduces the problem
of having to clear a townie each night or claim a roleblock and why you aren't dead.
Axelrod 510 - letting him live another day seems fine beneficial. THe only risk is if he has some nasty scum ability to use tonight.
kpaca 556 - this post just pisses me off because there is a downside to letting AE-scum live and that is that he gets to use a scum ability at night
if he has one. That's not something to ignore. I do think the positives outweigh this but overstating the case and saying there's no downside is
patently false.
joboman 587 - unless joboman means Axelrod the doctor here this post makes no sense
AI 600 - AI is starting to bother me a lot. Here is another post in which he posts what is essiantly a large amount of fluff since he posts a lot of
anslysis which doesn't actually come out with anything. Even when giving tentative feelings about player's alignments he tends to lump them in and make
them contingent on other players.
loran 609 - Kraj? O.o I guess another typo lol
kpaca 638 - kpaca's single-mindedness on Cyan rivals well... Cyan.
flew 660 - pay attention?
RR 666 - I don't have any problem with the actual reasoning for the vote on Bilbro (me). But I don't like this line: "Since Bilbro has given me
literally nothing else to read him on, I have no counterbalancing townie reads, and will unvote, vote: Bilbroxain." Which seems to me like an
overjustification for his vote.
vezok 671 - role vomiting then there was a period of quite but now it looks like he's back to rolevomiting. The problem I have with vezok is deciding
whether he's really that bad as town that he will give up vital role info for little reason or if he's crafty enough scum to give off this impression.
AI - finally takes a solid stance
RR 694, 695 - excellent catch on vezokpiraka
Vezok 702 - I can buy that vezok is just very bad town.THe alternative at this point is really excellent scum.
joboman 729 - nice appeal to attacker or whatever you want to call it
zchinque 773 - I believe the one-shot speculation was because of the flavor he gave which seems genuine
kpaca 793 - quit being kpaca, kpaca
Joboman 828 - the only vote on zajnet that's been scummy so far. Why mini-pbpa him when TACKY just did so? It adds nothing except that he's
self-conscious about throwing a naked barn vote on and so puts up some fluff to make himself feel better.
axelrod 834 - lol
AI 835 - *bwee-oop* *bwee-oop* scum plotting detected. AI is already insinuating that Zajnet's wagon was scum-driven. I think that there was few
scum on Zajnet and scum-AI wants to exploit this. If AI is scum, everybody on Zajnet's wagon gets town points. It could be entirely innocent however.
The point is that if AI is scum then Cyan is overwhelmingly likely to be town.
joboman 844 - Hmm? Unless this is inside knowledge showing through, I don't see how that post would dissuade you.
Talore - 856 - uses a bad flavor argument to try to push Zaj lynch forward.
AI 892 - contradicts 887
loran 941 - oh nice point on AI here
AI 1058 - calls a zajnet/cyan double lynch "a mislynch or two". Does this jive with previous opinions?
zindabad 1100 - voting AE
Cyan 1103 - But then wouldn't they attract suspicion for not getting RBed? Why would scum not RB a one-shot cop who could potentially out one of them?
SB 1109 - same thing as above to you. If there is a town one-shot cop, then the obvious move for scum is to RB him. In whichcase, a scum trying
to fake this would claim that he got RBed...
Cyan 1110 - the only thing AE has going for him right now is Zindabad's behaviour toward him.
AI 1117 - L-4 the new claim threshold? No sirree. And the question to AE is more fishing.
kpaca 1123 - that's a lie heh. I know you've said this before in at least one game before, maybe more.
gigas 1183 - town points for clinching the case against Zindabad. However, given that it seemed pretty likely that he would be getting lynched anyway,
with a claim not likely to save him, and also given that zindabad's response is so horribly bad especially considering that he'd just claimed the
ability a couple of hours prior, I'm slightly worried about the possiblity of a scum setup here. Especially if the scum have daytalk, this could just be
a ruse to give Gigas townie points ofr slam-dunking Zindabad when he was going down anyway.
AI 1196 - Now has Cyan and Zchinque on his town list after implying in 1157 that they were scum bussing Zindabad. What gives?
(No is an acceptable answer, btw.)
All better now?
But yeah, I'm a gimmick.
Do you realize that you are the player who is currently closest to being lynched? Why aren't you even attempting to convince us that you are town?
Have we ever played together? Based on your read of me, I doubt it.
I'm sure I've been in a game or two with you. Good job ignoring my points on you and brushing them off with your vague self meta :thumbsup:.
I'll paraphrase what you just said to Flew: Why aren't you trying to convince me that you're town?
And: "Some stuff that doesn't begin to address the points I made."
I'm not sure how you made your post without noticing the irony.
Flew (3) - Cyan, AsianInvasion, Powerrox93
AsianInvasion (2) - Talore, Top3ReasonsWhy
With 15 Goo alive, it’s 8 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Hi :ria:.
Actually, I don't think any of your points make me look worse than the players in your "Little/No-Read" category and I'm wondering why you only have one scum read.
I guess you failed to pick up on the fact that I was explaining how I deduce my reads. I never intended to state unerringly that one player's alignment could be determined by another's, simply that knowing one's would make it easier for me to surmise the other's.
Do you have quotes to back up that statement?
I have plainly stated that I have a biased read of zindabad and always see him as scum. This is simply being honest to the other players. Also as stated, as scum I tend to aggressively bus my buddies early game. Feel free to check my old scum games yourself.
Of course I called out Talore for being noncommittal because he has no such bias against zindabad and therefore should have come up with something by that point.
Didn't I say that a good case would sway me? Lo and behold, I made good on my word. I think it would have been much worse if I had said, "Nice case bro, but I'm still not voting."
You should know that I've been calling Cyan town ever since his claim. I still have reservations about him but his role (if true) only makes sense as town, largely due to the power of his Hidden Trigger on scum. As for Zchinque, his vote without any support looked terrible. However, his response to my post here was pretty townie.
So this point is moot.
I suggest you reread your those you have no read on. You're bound to find something noteworthy.
One last thing of note: zindabad posted his apology to his scumbuddies in public so it's likely that the scum don't have daytalk.
91: Syrenz is the first to question zindabad for his vote on AE. I consider this a point in Syrenz' (now Powerrox93's) favour. Similar sentiments were also expressed by AsianI and TACKY. After zindabad clarified that it was a random vote, he was questioned by Talore and falkonn. No real value to those reads.
253: Syrenz (Powerrox93) disagrees with zindabad's push against Buranri (Zebi).
280: AsianI responds to much of zindabad's post 251. Not the kind of thing you often see mafioso doing with each other due to linkage. Minor townie points to AI.
425: AsianI responds to zindabad's post 424, calling him out for unsupported meta references.
444: Just realized that I was discounting the neutrals (SB and kpaca) in this writeup, and don't feel like redoing it. kpaca was mildly supportive of zindabad earlier, SB calls him scum here. I don't really feel like either of these behaviours change the way I feel about the neutrals.
600: AsianI posts that he thinks there are two scum in the set of zindabad (now dead scum), Cyan, AE, and joboman (now Gigas1, dead town). He fails to back up his "exactly two scum" hypothesis, though.
716: AE responds to zindabad saying that AE was only scum twice (actually three times). No real read here.
758: AsianI again states suspicion of zindabad and asks others to comment.
759: Cyan provides mild support of zindabad.
904: AsianI again expresses suspicion of zindabad.
938: Dancing Mad puts zindabad in his "Mixed/no read" category when making a list of players. No real read here - zindabad really hadn't posted much at this point.
981: AsianI is the first to respond to zindabad saying that AE should be wanting to target him. Zchinque also follows up.
1092: Cyan expresses doubt of zindabad. AsianI and Gigas1 agree.
1103: Cyan begins an attack on zindabad. AE joins shortly, followed by SB and vezokpiraka, and the zindabad wagon is on.
1117: AsianI calls for the zindabad wagon to slow down long enough for votes to be based on analysis. In 1130 he says that he likes the zindabad wagon, but won't join without support from good players, naming RobRoy specifically.
After that, zindabad is the main focus of discussion, so anyone wanting to read people's reactions should just read everything. To summarize: Archmage Eternal and TACKY have several back-and-forths with him, with Cyan and AsianI contributing. kpaca and Flew are dissenting voices.
Overall, I can't see AsianInvasion being co-scum with zindabad, as he expressed suspicion of him multiple times when nobody else was. TACKY's interactions with zindabad during the wagon is also a strong point in his favour. AE is likely clear as well. Cyan doesn't come out of this looking quite as good as he did in part 1 of the analysis, but still isn't worth looking at at this point, especially with his claimed ability and downside. Minor props also to Syrenz, and minor scum points to Flew.
Based on the combination of this and part 1, I do not believe AI, AE, Cyan or TACKY are valid lynch choices. Unfortunately, I don't have that much of anyone to actually go after. Top3 replaced Bil, who as I mentioned before I was suspicious of, and I'm going to wait to give him more time before attacking him. Flew might be worth going after, but I can recall rereading him before and not being convinced. I'll see if I can get another look in later.
Keep in mind when you do so that I am now Bilbro.
Except that most of the players in my Little/No Read category have done nothing worth commenting on.
I'm also wondering why I only have one scum read. I'm pretty sure it's because the scum tactic in this game is to say nothing of consequence. In other words, all those players that I don't have a read on may be trying to lurk their way to victory. But that's just a hunch and you're the only with scummy actions.
Sure. My point is though, that this is the type of statement that is much more beneficial to scum, with their advantage of foresight of alignment. It's great to say "One of X and Y are scum" when you know that they're both town. You lynch one, hey look he was town! This means that the other one has to be the scum.
I don't mind a little bit of linkage; everyone does that. The problem is the quantity of your linkage and the fact that it comes before any of their alignments are revealed.
These two are ones that I recall:
I'll be sure to give that self-meta the importance it deserves :cool2:.
Meh.
Not really. I fully expected you to vote Zindabad if a good case on him materialized. There's no way you would completely hold off a scumbuddy's wagon in such an obvious manner when he was going down. But what you did is what I would expect from a buddy unsure about whether to commit to bussing his buddy or to wait it out and see if his buddy can survive: You expressed that you thought Zindabad was scummy while the wagon started building but only actually lent it your full support and vote once a solid case appeared and it looked very likely that Zindabad would be lynched.
OK. You're right.
Don't worry, I plan on. If this was an attempt to get me off you and focus on other players though then bear in mind that I can focus on multiple people at once.
Also, I liked your initial vote on Talore, as I thought his vote on Loran was way too hasty with little reason. However I noticed this post:
Did you know that Talore was a new player when you voted him?
I'm having trouble figuring it out. On the one hand you're asking Talore the question here, implying that you didn't know he was new but then you unvote in anticipation of the answer which implies that you know what the answer is going to be.