Early on in the day, a voice rings out "Agentdark is scum! I love him, but for the greater good, I will sacrifice us both to being uneducated and surviving off government cheese!" Armlx appears sorrowful and triumphant all at once.
"He's right," Agentdark replies, "my evil friends have backstabbed me so I will make a gift of our leaders name."
"We must get him expelled they all cry, but before we do, we should discuss the possibility that he may be lying."
As the day draws to and end, the votes accumulate and the information dwindles. Finally, Agentdark is led to Principal Mage's office.
I'm sorry son, but I can't help but listen to all these kids yelling for me to expell you. As he walks through those ugly double doors one last time, a wail rises from the pack. Armlx goes running into the dark after Agentdark.
Agentdark- The Goth Kid has been expelled
armlx- The Pot Head has dropped out.
Good morning boys and girls, this is your Principal Mr. Mage. Unfortunately, we have a few more unsavory announcements to make.
Students will please pay no attention to the flyers about our vice-principal. He assures us that he is not now nor will he ever be a $20/hour hooker. The perpetrator JCSuperstar has been expelled. On an anonymous tip, the original of the flyer was found on his computer. He will no longer be with us.
Also, on a more serious note, another student was attacked last night. Azrael has been admitted to the hospital until further notice. He will not be coming back to school and will instead transfer to St. Edwards school for boys next semester. A football was found on the scene, but no other clues to the attacker’s identity have been found.
No Longer Enrolled JCSuperstar- The Class Clown Azrael- The Nerd
With only 17 students left, it takes 9 to get someone expelled.
Okay, not sure which lead to follow today. But I think we got some good discussion on Day 1 which should help us narrow down who the best suspects are.
And may I start the day with a rousing round of FOS: Puzzle and WellOfLostGnomes. The logic used by both of you yesterday was questionable. I don't like Puzzle's bickering with Azrael in hindsight, and Well...well, he didn't make much sense at all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
FOS: Cropcircles too. Wouldn't want you to feel left out.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Well, I guess none of that's too surprising. Whatever happened on turn 1 to keep Azrael alive it evidently wasn't that he was mafia.
Axel - I have to say I completely disagree with your FOS of Puzzle. If he planned to kill Azrael last night he would fight so publicly with him immediately beforehand.
Seems like we have a "framing" theme and a "sports" theme going on amongst the deaths. This suggests to me that either the mafia or the SK are jocks. Could have interesting implications for rolenames.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
No, you're not completely wrong. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.
I meant to point out that their behaviour is pretty standard for them. I'm not excusing them, by any means. That would be like saying "StevieT92 is lurking, but that's okay because it's Stevie" even though he could be using that as an advantage because he's actually Two Face, the Serial Killer...or something like that. Yes, we should look into them, but when looking into someone for suspicious behaviour, we should also take into account that they act the same in other games as well.
Quote from Axelrod »
FOS: Cropcircles too. Wouldn't want you to feel left out.
Aww, how sweet.
Quote from bateleur »
Axel - I have to say I completely disagree with your FOS of Puzzle. If he planned to kill Azrael last night he would fight so publicly with him immediately beforehand.
This is an interesting point. However, ignoring the fact that you're entering WIFOM territory, there's nothing saying that Puzzle is a part of the group that killed Az.
Okay, so I'm gonna do a little read over of the thread and quote things that stick out to me. I'm not saying everyone here is scummy, just bringing forth things I think we should keep in mind.
Quote from WellOfLostGnomes »
I think that this whole thing is going really fast, it's only Day 1 and we're planning on lynching someone after 5 pages of posts. Even though he claimed scum, we should keep the day going so we can have a chance to get all the information possible about Ljustice, Armix and AgentDark. Even though Armix came out with that ability, he could have been lying about him being town, or about him dying as well. I also don't see the connection between Goth and Pot kid. I liked the speculation about the pot being planted by armix. If it was him, and he does die with Agentdark, then we kill the Sk and a mafia, and possibly have a Godfather to go after.
Other then the fact that the idea that Armlx is a SK makes no sense, all of this is fine until he gets to that last part. Sure, LJustus could still be scum of some sort, but it is highly unlikely that he is the GF.
Quote from Turbo »
The hacker would be a viable name for Godfather. He could easily hack the Mafia's grade cards and 'office visit' records, or let them graduate early, or any number of other nefarious activities; and could probably expel people as his kill method. Since the Godfather rarely makes the hit for fear of watchmen and such, it would make sense that the 'jock/bully' or 'dealer' would have done the kill last night. It also looks very good for a godfather to 'lead the wagon' on a scum, so he can point to that later on when he's under suspicion.
Dark is definitely the lynch for the day imo, and we'll see what happens tonight (like to Armix) before we pursue Ljustus. Right now his actions don't really confirm or deny Dark's claim.
See above.
Quote from bateleur »
Incidentally, one thing Agentdark has claimed I know to be false.
Quote from Fadeblue »
In that case, I think I know what you're referring to, bateleur. Which means, hmm, let me make some calculations...
It may or may not be a good idea for bat or fade to come forward with this, but that is up to them.
Quote from Axelrod »
Bat., what's false? Right now, I tend to believe him. But maybe that's just me.
I know I'm kind of doing the same thing here, but this is fishing for info.
Quote from Axelrod »
I meant something about his claim rang true for me. Perhaps it was just the reckless way he said he didn't care anymore. I'm certainly not advocating an immediate LJustus lynch over this, but I don't mind going on record and saying I'll be watching him.
Trusting scum is tech.
Quote from Turbo »
I didn't attack Ljustus. I just said that the 'hacker' rolename was a viable godfather, and that Ljustus's defense neither cleared nor incriminated him, and tonight's events would determine what we do tomorrow. Sorry if I wasted your bait :/
Looking over it, I don't think Turbo's statements really incriminate him much.
Quote from EinsteinMonkey »
Quote from !Chucklez! »
Maybe we are looking at a 2 Mafia set up. With all the little social groups in high school it would make sense. If AD is telling the truth about the size and role names, this may be the "outcast" mafia.
I know something (finally!) that probably have to do with this. It's probably not what most are expecting, unless they know what I do.
Well, I don't.
Quote from EinseinMonkey »
Quote from Axelrod »
And you are mentioning this why? Just to brag? Nyah, nyah, I know something you don't know. If you think you have information either keep quiet until the right time, or spill. Don't give us useless stuff like this.
I'm mentioning it because I don't want townies lynched. Would you like me to spill?
I'm rather confused about how coming out that you have info, but not saying what it is keeps townies from getting lynched.
Okay, so I just got invited to go see Doom, which means the rest of this will have to wait for later. :tongue2:
@bat and EM: If the info you guys have would hurt the town, by all means, ignore this. I'm just trying to remind everyone of possible things to discuss.
Thanks for the reminders Crop, hasn't been much posting with Az dead. Frankly I was surprised to see neither of our "hey I know something i'm not telling yet"'s got killed last night.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mucho thx to Erasmus of Erad's Sig Shop for my gosu 'Tog-eatin VICIOUS KAVU !!!
Quote from Sir Blakely »
turbo...my god. you have reached Uber-Nerd-Dom (TM).
:-( No cross kill. And no indication of a Vig either. Hopefully we've got one smarter than the 8-Bit one who's just hiding in the shadows.
I don't think that Puzzle Vs. Azreal was scummy for Puzzle. After all it did go on in other games, so I think it has little to do with which is scum here.
Hopefully we can get another day as active as yesterday. I am enjoying this game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"There is no royal road to science, and only those who do not dread the fatiguing climb
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx Cube
[QUOTE=CropCircles]Okay, so I'm gonna do a little read over of the thread and quote things that stick out to me. I'm not saying everyone here is scummy, just bringing forth things I think we should keep in mind.
Other then the fact that the idea that Armlx is a SK makes no sense, all of this is fine until he gets to that last part. Sure, LJustus could still be scum of some sort, but it is highly unlikely that he is the GF.[QUOTE]
I don't have much to say about your other points, but this is completely wrong. If LJustus is any kind of scum he could only be a GF given what AgentDark did.
Also, I think I know what EM is talking about and there probably isn't a good reason to go into it quite yet.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I don't have much to say about your other points, but this is completely wrong. If LJustus is any kind of scum he could only be a GF given what AgentDark did.
Really? It's not possible that he's a SK? Or the other "1" in Crippled's list?
Really? It's not possible that he's a SK? Or the other "1" in Crippled's list?
If you meant he could be "scum" other than mafia, then fine. I'm not really talking about that. What I meant was that if he's mafia, he's only going to be the GF.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Seems like we have a "framing" theme and a "sports" theme going on amongst the deaths. This suggests to me that either the mafia or the SK are jocks. Could have interesting implications for rolenames.
Yeah, I'm thinking that the SK is probably the one kiling with sports equipment, it goes along with the whole "Kill everyone to win" deal, and the sneaky -behind the scene- type killing is more in tune with the mafia. It was stated earlier that they might be a "student council" type thing, and that seems entirely plausible.
Quote from !Chucklez! :-( No cross kill. And no indication of a Vig either. Hopefully we"ve got one smarter than the 8-Bit one who"s just hiding in the shadows. [/quote »
Or he's not that smart, is firing blindly and killing townies...and the SK could be hiding because he didn't want to kill night one and then decided the vig is doing his job for him. Or the vig was being role blocked and hasn't decided to use his ability yet because the SK is killing who he thought was scummy. Or no one has looked scummy enough for him to use it.
[quote=cropcircles] Sure, LJustus could still be scum of some sort, but it is highly unlikely that he is the GF.
I'll have to agree with Axelrod on this, he really can't be scum unless he has the ability to hide from the cops...I doubt even AD is dumb enough to just give up 2 mafia to the town this early. I think that he was just trying to use reverse psycology to waste a cop investigation.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
I'll have to agree with Axelrod on this, he really can't be scum unless he has the ability to hide from the cops...I doubt even AD is dumb enough to just give up 2 mafia to the town this early. I think that he was just trying to use reverse psycology to waste a cop investigation.
I'll say this again, as you seem to have missed or ignored my last post: I was saying that he could be a SK or "other." Hence the use of the word scum and not mafioso.
I'll say this again, as you seem to have missed or ignored my last post: I was saying that he could be a SK or "other." Hence the use of the word scum and not mafioso.
What evidence is there of that though? The only thing that's really scummy at all about him is that he was presented by AD, who would not know if he was a cult or SK.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
What evidence is there of that though? The only thing that's really scummy at all about him is that he was presented by AD, who would not know if he was a cult or SK.
I never said it was likely. I never tried to cast suspicion on him. I was stating that if someone did attack him, it should not be under the assumption that he is a Mafia Godfather. You said...
Quote from WoLG »
If it was him, and he does die with Agentdark, then we kill the Sk and a mafia, and possibly have a Godfather to go after.
...which I consider scummy, because it is very unlikely that AD was telling the truth. This sounds more to me like a mafioso trying to get people to be suspcious of LJ. I said...
Quote from CropCircles »
Sure, LJustus could still be scum of some sort, but it is highly unlikely that he is the GF.
I'm not suggesting it is likely that he is a SK or something. I simply stated it was possible.
@CropCircles - The info I have contradicting what Agentdark said is not the kind of thing that's really likely to have much impact. The only reason I'm holding the info for now is that there's a very small chance I might be able to use it to catch a mafia member lying. As soon as there's any kind of consensus that I should reveal then I will.
In other news, it occurs to me that whilst we're all debating whether Puzzle is behind Azrael's demise, we're needlessly overlooking the night's other death. Why kill jcsuperstar in particular ? I decided to do a post-by-post analysis on jcsuperstar to see if I could spot any clues...
Post 21
Quote from jcsuperstar »
I'd vote the mafia did the dodge-balling, because that's something a group can do to an individual. The framing for marijuana seems more like an individual action, i.e. SK. I also wouldn't be surprised if these weren't the only ways for these two groups to kill. (Death by wedgie??)
Almost the only supporter of the idea that the sports deaths are the mafia... but it's not clear to me how the mafia could gain an advantage from the town mixing them up with the SK.
Post 39
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Vote: AgentDark. Not much to say about that.
Just a note - he was the 4th player to make such a vote.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Too bad about chamber. He probably had a pretty good role, being such a geek and all. SorryGuy sure did stink, though.
Interesting speculation about what kind of thing might constitue a power role in High School.
Post 61
Quote from creampuffeater »
Wow this seems like a short day 1 if this is true about agentdark, but also doubt that ljustice is the GF because why would he sell out? I am surprised that he only named 1 mafia also... I mean if he wants to screw them why not name 2 or 3? I think agent has some sort of plan with the mafia knowing that ljustice has a power role or something.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
And how would the mafia know that?
Uncontroverial shooting down of creampuffeater's idea.
Post 63
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Exactly how did Ljustus stab you in the back? Can you give us more info on this?
...and as it turned out he never really did.
Post 68
Quote from jcsuperstar »
I don't see how Ljustus could have turned the others against you. Mafia can't communicate during the day, so... Ljustus turned them against you at night, before you posted?
Here we see a pattern emerging. Long before Crippled Fist shows up Agentdark as a liar, jcsuperstar is already poking holes in his testimony.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Your info about Ljustus isn't good enough. If true, it means he can't be investigated, so we have no way to verify it. Now, if you give us the name of at least one mafioso who CAN be investigated, I pledge to remove my vote, and encourage others to do the same. Good enough?
A hopeless attempt, but again he's clearly not happy with Agentdark's info.
Post 77
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Uh, we lynch AgentDark tonight. If armlx dies, we find out his alignment. If he doesn't die, we lynch him based on LAL.
Uncontroverial.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
I don't think AgentDark is going to give us any more info today, unfortunately.
And, indeed, he didn't.
Post 129
Quote from jcsuperstar »
@AgentDark - The fact that you won't name any mafia besides the Godfather leads me to disbelieve your claim about Ljustus. If you really want to screw him, give us someone we can investigate!
This is the key point. And I have to say I concur with jcsuperstar on this one - I really don't think LJustus is likely to be the godfather.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Other questions for you:
1. Would I be correct in assuming that your group killed SorryGuy? (I don't see metalheads and goths using dodgeballs as weapons.)
2. If so, why kill SG as opposed to, say, a good player? If you killed chamber, why him?
3. Does Metalhead target the person using the ability, or the mafioso he wants to protect?
Unvote: AgentDark in the hopes that more information may be forthcoming.
By this point he seems to have changed his mind about which group is which based on information from Agentdark. He's also taking an interest in the seemingly odd choice of targets.
Post 135
Quote from jcsuperstar »
In any case, tell us if we get close to the limit and we'll end the day. In the meantime, I think there's a good chance AD will answer at least some of my questions.
This amounts to a change of stance from post 63.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
@WOLG: Why do you still not get it about armlx? There's a 90% chance he's telling the truth, but if he's not we'll find out at day's end and he'll be dead soon enough. So why keep pressing him?
Minor squabbling with WellOfLostGnomes, but since he never so much as aims a FOS at him I doubt this is the reason for jcsuperstar's death.
Post 138
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Quote from WellOfLostGnomes »
a 1 for 1 |or| 2(town) for 1 trade is can be helpful to the mafia, especially if it ends up confusing the town to the point where no ones alligence can be discerned.
So you think we shouldn't make the trade?
More minor altercation with WellOfLostGnomes. Again, doesn't seem significant to me.
Post 164
Quote from jcsuperstar »
I think AgentDark's accusation of Ljustus has all the marks of a false accusation: Made without much pressure, little logical justification for why it was made, a belated "sorry" to his mafia buddies.
...plus a load more questions for Agentdark which I won't reproduce here.
It seems like jcsuperstar was fairly convinced LJustus was not mafia and I have to say I'm inclined to agree. Is it possible the mafia killed him purely because they were still hoping some mud might stick to LJustus somehow ?
Post 171
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Vote: AgentDark. I'm through with you. CrippledFist has no reason to lie, therefore, you are a liar. Also, saying the mafia wanted to "throw suspicion off them" by killing SorryGuy makes less than no sense. You can die now.
Good summary.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
@CrippledFist: It looks like there is a townie with an alternate win condition. Would it make any sense for a townie to also be a cult leader?
Curious speculation. Don't know what to make of that.
Post 183
Quote from jcsuperstar »
I know, I just thought there could be a grain of truth in what he is saying. Now that I know he's even lying about the NUMBER of mafia, I consider him useless.
Another hint here: the mafia could be trying to defend the idea that something Agentdark said was true. This could be important, since if we knew every word was false that would give us information by elimination. In fact, it would leave LJustus as a cleared townie.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
That's my point. 26 win conditions - 23 players = 3 players with alternate win conditions. Two of them are armlx and AgentDark, so there must be one other player with both a standard and a non-standard win condition. Could that player be a cult leader? It seems unlikely for a cult leader to have two WCs. Therefore, I think there is no cult.
Potentially important info.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Of course, Crippled Fist could be keeping something from us. Turbo changed the numbers to make himself look town, didn't he?
Appears suspicious of Crippled Fist. As such, there's always the vague possibility that Crippled Fist is mafia and wanted to shut jcsuperstar up before he turned this into a lynch campaign on day two. But probably not.
Quote from jcsuperstar »
I think puzzle should drop his "wagons" against Az and LJustus, which are based on a) the accusations of a confirmed scum and liar, and b) their congratulations of armlx for helping the town.
Well, with Azrael dead this basically amounts to even more LJustus advocacy.
Post 192
Quote from jcsuperstar »
I agree with the call to investigate CF, so we know his info can be trusted.
This may in fact have happened by now. If it hasn't, see comments on 183 above - it might be worth doing.
Post 201
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Quote from Crippled Fist »
The Bookie. I mean the Bookie, not the Booker. That's what you get when posting tired. *covers himself*
As for the role, I was myself a bit amazed to see it. Your job to figure if you believe me or not. Also, if there's a cult, then the numbers have changed already a bit. I'm myself not thrilled about the investigation being 'wasted' on me as I can't see why a scum would invent something like this. The cop's choice though.
Kind of a scummy post here. Most people don't mess up their role names.
The main point of investigating you is that the only other time we've seen a role like this, it ended
up being non-town.
More argument for the Crippled Fist theory.
Post 204
Quote from jcsuperstar »
Where is Imhungry4creampuffs? He should at least check in today.
Actually, he did check in - jcsuperstar himself responded to one of his comments above.
So overall there seem to be two key points:
1) jcsuperstar appeared to believe Agentdark was talking nonsense and, in particular, that LJustus was not mafia.
2) jcsuperstar was slightly wary of Crippled Fist and wanted him investigated.
Which of these amounts to a more likely cause of death I'm not really sure. (Unless WellOfLostGnomes is wrong and jcsuperstar was killed by the SK, in which case only theory 2 works and Crippled Fist is the SK.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
This is an interesting point. However, ignoring the fact that you're entering WIFOM territory, there's nothing saying that Puzzle is a part of the group that killed Az.
I find this interesting coming from the guy who yesterday pushed the barrow that there was only 1 scum group. I find it especially interesting given that the info from CrippledFist suggested there is only one scum "group". But perhaps you know it's not right and you just made a slip?
Quote from bateleur »
Axel - I have to say I completely disagree with your FOS of Puzzle. If he planned to kill Azrael last night he would fight so publicly with him immediately beforehand.
Total WIFOM point, bat. It's not worth getting into the "they killed Az so Puzzle would look bad for disagreeing!" "No, they did it so we'd think they were trying to frame Puzzle and so we'd trust Puzzle!" kind of thing.
Speaking of Puzzle- odd dreams and big shadows seem odd for this game. But it kind of sounds to me like maybe he was drugged or something? Roleblocking via drugs might make sense in this game. A little more inclined to trust Puzzle just because it sounds more descriptive than it would necessarily have to be if he was lying. OTOH, if Puzzle is just doing this to set up some sort of "I'm the doctor, but I keep getting roleblocked so that's why I haven't protected anyone" claim, I'll be very disappointed.
Quote from Kenji »
It looks like our mafia don't excatly kill people, they just make up things about them that get them expelled. And our SK has a sport fetish...
Any particular reason you're so sure about this? I admit I didn't follow Agentdark's stuff too closely, but even if he outright said something I wouldn't necessarily trust it. Even moreso than CropCircles' thing above about a second group, this seems exactly like the kind of info a mafia or SK might accidentally let slip- fairly unimportant, but nonehteless info that they have but which the town doesn't have. FOS Kenji
Saw bat's post while previewing. Number 2 seems vaguely more plausible, particularly since jc hadn't especially linked himself via a vote or something, he was just musing in that direction (the mafia may have even thought his request for an investigation meant he was the cop). Could also just be the killing of an active townie who hasn't committed to much and who isn't well known enough to be a likely random doc protect.
because it is very unlikely that AD was telling the truth
"I'm not suggesting it is likely...I simply stated it was possible."-CropCircles
I thought that there was an EXTREMELY slight possibility that AD might have put some valuable information in towards the end of his life, he would know that most of us would stop trusting him, thinking that sewing the seeds of doubt would cause more damage then any other option. I pretty much figured out that he was most likely flailing about trying to bring some more town with him, but there are always ack basswords trains of thought.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
No disrespect intended to JCSuperstar, who played a fine game, but I seriously doubt that he was killed because of his "plan" to investigate Crippled Fist, or his support of LJustus. Strikes me as more of a "random" kill by SK on someone unlikely to get protected. I think you are probably wasting your time with that, bat.
I think Azrael would have been the mafia kill, and considering the "sports" nature of it, and the "dodge ball" kill night one, we might speculate that what we have is a "Jock" mafia of some kind. Immediate problem with that, however, is that AgentDark was not a Jock. He was "the Goth kid" which is almost anti-jock.
So that makes me think that, while there may be a Jock on the mafia who has done the kill the first two nights, the mafia is not simply "Jocks." Probably is composed of a variety of different Student types. The SK would then be some sort of subversive who frames people in various ways to get them expelled.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I think Azrael would have been the mafia kill, and considering the "sports" nature of it, and the "dodge ball" kill night one, we might speculate that what we have is a "Jock" mafia of some kind. Immediate problem with that, however, is that AgentDark was not a Jock. He was "the Goth kid" which is almost anti-jock.
So that makes me think that, while there may be a Jock on the mafia who has done the kill the first two nights, the mafia is not simply "Jocks." Probably is composed of a variety of different Student types. The SK would then be some sort of subversive who frames people in various ways to get them expelled.
I hadn't thought of this. It would seem we will not have the luxury of being able to identify mafia by social groups as I had expected coming into this game.
Bat, I am inclined to agree with Axelrod on your Jc-CF theory. This looks more radnom-ish to me. I think that the mafia is going after lower profile players. I do, however, still recommend an investigation of CF. Having him confirmed could be very valuable later in the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"There is no royal road to science, and only those who do not dread the fatiguing climb
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx Cube
I'm just casting about for sources of ideas. In effect, it's like day 1 here because the lynch-on-a-plate yesterday has left us with little idea about what we plan to do today.
Anyone got any bright ideas ?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
silicon (#199 is a bit playing on both sides imo, using flavour as argument, which is just not townish to me).
The entirety of my 'suspicion' was that it was an unsual ability, seen in two games back to back. As I said before though the ability fits with the claimed role. Add to that the drawbacks of trying to falseclaim it, especially on day one, and it's a good claim, and a basically confirmed townie.
Quote from Puzzle »
By the way, confirm FOS Silicon : I still haven't seen any interest in keeping Raf's number hidden.
Aw, thanks so much :love:. You may be happy to know that I now agree with you on this (or maybe it'll make you more suspicious :sneaky:). At the time I posted about that, I (obv.) figured it was more harmful to know the number, and it was more of a kneejerk reaction. After considering the pros and cons more however, I believe that it's probably more benficial to know the number than not.
[qoute=Puzzle]
Last Question @ RafaelK : does your death end the day or not ?[/QUOTE]
Quoted for emphasis. Please answer this question Raf.
I'm pretty sure that the mafia is a group of outcasts (goth kid, "metal head") and not jocks. Out casts are, steriotypically speaking, the ones who would go around killing students and causing social unrest due to the hardships that they have faced. They would want to get revenge on the Preps, Jocks, and Nerds for making them look stupid, unwanted, and unloved. Jocks are generally concerned about what their parents think, and would want the teachers to care so that they could continue their education. The outcasts would be more interested in keeping the chaos and don't care about their parents. A jock would amost want to kelp the school, but due to the nature of the recent killings, it could be a jock that was kicked off the team they like and is angsty about it (SK), but I am leaning more towards it being a misguided Vig.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
I'm fairly certain that Puzzle is town at this point. I had a similar shadowy figure around my house on Night 0. While I didn't like his bickering with Az (shades of epeeguy), I somewhat understand it. I have been reading the thread off and on for some time now in search for some pattern or clue. Perhaps I should try giving it my full attention.
I am curious asto what magicianofthought has to say. I would have preferred to see his thoughts yesterday before the lynch. Holding the info makes it seem like scum trying to bait us with information - then suit that information to what takes place during the night.
I'm fairly certain that Puzzle is town at this point. I had a similar shadowy figure around my house on Night 0. While I didn't like his bickering with Az (shades of epeeguy), I somewhat understand it. I have been reading the thread off and on for some time now in search for some pattern or clue. Perhaps I should try giving it my full attention.
I am curious asto what magicianofthought has to say. I would have preferred to see his thoughts yesterday before the lynch. Holding the info makes it seem like scum trying to bait us with information - then suit that information to what takes place during the night.
Well, I'm off to lunch. More this afternoon.
Towines are not the only ones who get role blocked, there are sometimes townie role blockers working for the town. I'll agree with the MoT comment, we haven't really heard anything from him in a while.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Yeah, but if he was mafia, I doubt he'd have come out and stated that he was blocked. If he was the SK, then we'd have one less kill. That's just what my 2cc brain has come up with though.
If I were mafia, and were blocked, I'd most assuradly say I was blocked. That way, if the role blocker came out, I'd question him and take pressure off myself. A mafia would have a lot more problems if s/he held it back, because it would give the town ammo against her/him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
@WoLG: I understand what you are saying. But you didn't simply say he could be GF, you said we might "have a Godfather to go after." That's suggests action, and any suggestion that we follow the lead of a confirmed scum sounds scummy to me. Please note that I haven't voted for you, I haven't even FOSed. It is not a major point against you, and isn't followed by any others, so there isn't yet a need to.
Quote from RafaelK »
I find this interesting coming from the guy who yesterday pushed the barrow that there was only 1 scum group. I find it especially interesting given that the info from CrippledFist suggested there is only one scum "group". But perhaps you know it's not right and you just made a slip?
I don't know what "pushed the barrow" means, but I will admit to this as an error of terms. Mentally, I've always considered mafia, SK, cult, or whatever else as "scum groups," even though the SK is not at all a group. I'll try to be more specific in the future.
Quote from Axelrod »
No disrespect intended to JCSuperstar, who played a fine game, but I seriously doubt that he was killed because of his "plan" to investigate Crippled Fist, or his support of LJustus. Strikes me as more of a "random" kill by SK on someone unlikely to get protected. I think you are probably wasting your time with that, bat.
I think Azrael would have been the mafia kill, and considering the "sports" nature of it, and the "dodge ball" kill night one, we might speculate that what we have is a "Jock" mafia of some kind. Immediate problem with that, however, is that AgentDark was not a Jock. He was "the Goth kid" which is almost anti-jock.
So that makes me think that, while there may be a Jock on the mafia who has done the kill the first two nights, the mafia is not simply "Jocks." Probably is composed of a variety of different Student types. The SK would then be some sort of subversive who frames people in various ways to get them expelled.
Up until now, I've prefered the idea that the SK was the one killing with sports stuff, but this makes a lot more sense then the mafia going after JC.
Quote from Puzzle »
I think the Mafia would have interest in keeping the doubts alive on CF. Therefore, vote Cropcircles and FOS Silicon are coming out at this point, as CC followed suit as third, which is more scummy to me than generating the doubts itself.
Somehow, I don't feel the need to join you on this wagon Puzzle.
I seem to feel the need to clarify a number of things this game. Oh wait...I always have to do that.
Quote from CropCircles »
I'm a little less inclined to buy the info given to us by Crippled Fist, partly because we just had this role in a game, and partly because in that game Turbo was not town. I think the info does argue against a cult though.
By "less inclined," I was referring to Turbo's role in Random. Furthermore, I have since changed my mind and now consider CF to be near confirmed. I never directly said so, but this post...
Quote from CropCircles »
Really? It's not possible that he's a SK? Or the other "1" in Crippled's list?
...somewhat demonstrates my change in opinion.
Quote from WoLG »
I'm pretty sure that the mafia is a group of outcasts (goth kid, "metal head") and not jocks. Out casts are, steriotypically speaking, the ones who would go around killing students and causing social unrest due to the hardships that they have faced. They would want to get revenge on the Preps, Jocks, and Nerds for making them look stupid, unwanted, and unloved. Jocks are generally concerned about what their parents think, and would want the teachers to care so that they could continue their education. The outcasts would be more interested in keeping the chaos and don't care about their parents. A jock would amost want to kelp the school, but due to the nature of the recent killings, it could be a jock that was kicked off the team they like and is angsty about it (SK), but I am leaning more towards it being a misguided Vig.
All of this assumes that dragyn's preception of High School stereotypes lines up with yours. I think it is much more likely that dragyn would have taken care not to allow for a mass claim to break the game. If they are all outcasts, then once we find another mafia and find he is an outcast, then we could mass claim and near confirm any player that has a role such as "cheerleader" or "jock." On the other hand, dragyn did hand us a free lynch with AD, so maybe the game is not so balanced. Still, it has already been noted that the Pothead/Goth connection doesn't make a lot of sense and I don't see how "bookie" fits in. Furthermore, I will say that my role name isn't something I would expect to find in a High School. So I'm not sure we should expect roles to work out so nicely.
Also, I doubt it is a misguided vig who is killing. The SK is a very common role, and without one, the game would be unbalanced. If it is, they should stop now.
Quote from LJustus »
Yeah, but if he was mafia, I doubt he'd have come out and stated that he was blocked.
I'm not sure what to make of all this role-blocking information. I used to think that a townie role-blocker should hold his fire until he had a reason to target someone, but I've recenly been taught a lesson in a game on Mafiascum that suggests the RB should go ahead and block randomly night one.
I'm not sure I would admit if I was blocked, myself, since that would give away that you had an ability that could be blocked (this assumes you wouldn't get a PM about being "blocked" if you had no night choice. I can't actually say what Draygn is doing in this game.)
So, if the people who have been blocked and "know it" have no night choices, then the fact of being blocked means very little. If the people blocked had night choices that were blocked, it somewhat diminishes their chances of being mafia. I think that's right.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
this assumes you wouldn't get a PM about being "blocked" if you had no night choice
Though in this case the flavour of the blocking means that you probably would.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I kind of wanted to wait before I had more to say before making my next post (trying to set a good example and all), but it does make sense to get this out. I should get into the habit of doing it each day. Besides, still tons of room left today. I'm not overly worried (that will come in a week when people have had arguments slinging back and forth one-line posts and we still haven't got close to a lynch).
X went down by 1, to 20. So it's now 20 x 19 survivors = 380 posts today (mod excluded).
I don't think we're in any jeopardy of losing Rafael at this point, so I have a simple observation. . . well, more of a question really. . .
Has creampuffeater posted in the game at all? It also seems that we haven't heard from matjoeman, and I am still waiting for magicianofthought's analysis.
Those players have posted 1, 3 and 2 times respectively. Which is pretty poor. I'd be in favour of more aggressive Mafia blacklisting for that kind of behaviour.
As for roleblocking, does anyone know whether it typically affects passive abilities or only active ones ? By which I mean if my role has, for example, "You cannot be targetted by <something>", will roleblocking disable this ? Also, would a Mafia roleblocker be applied before or after the Mafia's nightkill ?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Sorry for not posting very much, haven't had time.
Are you sure the shadow means that you have been role blocked? It could mean something else, because I have reason to believe that I was role blocked last night, but I recieved no such pm.
I reread the thread, I agree with most of Cropcircle's points expressed in posts #241, 251, 266, so minor FoS: WOLG and Axelrodfor believing AD, I still don't have very strong suspicions about them.
Also in post 69
Quote from Ljustus »
2. He calls me "the hacker". Does that sound like a rolename for a mafia godfather? I don't think so. I would imagine that it's something like ringleader or metalhead or something like that. I am not "the hacker". Lie #2.
Ljustus says that the mafia godfather name would be something like metalhead, and then AD uses that when giving out the mafia's role names. So very likely this means AD was lying about this part too.
I am here... sorry for the lurking I will try and be more active from here on out. This is a very hectic game and right now I dont see many possible leads. First question Ljustice did you leave your house last night? (look I highly doubt that you are mafia but I want to review all possibilities so not to over-look scum).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
I find it odd that you two would suddenly remember and post in the game so shortly after you were called out for lurking. I appreciate it nonetheless.
Slight FOS on Matjoeman. Not bolding it on purpose - so it doesn't really count. You have Puzzle giving information and me confirming it, yet you question it? The only way that I can believe that anyone would question this is if you think that Puzzle and I are "in cahoots" or something. Reviewing the thread, do you really find that very likely?
@ CPE (as I will now call creampuffeater CPE because creampuffeater is too long to type every time): I don't want to give the mafia that piece of information at this point in the game. (That and you don't get to ask questions when it's day 2 and only your fourth post in the game. :p)
Hum, I won't post much before Monday but I have been role-blocked. It may or may not mean that I have an ability, but there was a huge shadow around my house. I also seem to have had had a dream about president Bush.
Has anyone been blocked night 1 in a similar fashion ?
Quote from LJustus »
I'm fairly certain that Puzzle is town at this point. I had a similar shadowy figure around my house on Night 0.
These are not the same. LJustus, was there a "shadow" over your house, or did you see a "shadowy figure?" Did you have strange dreams? I'm mainly asking because you reacted like the same thing happened to you--making you feel Puzzle is likely town-- but what you posted was different.
Matjoeman: I take it from your response that there was neither a "shadow" or a "shadowy figure" associated with your role-block?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I had the shadow (no figure after checking my PM). I did not have any dreams. I didn't dare leave the house, even if I could. I thought that the shadow was a figure. (That was the way my mind put it together.)
"Hello, sorry for lurking, I'm the Watcher and have looked at LJustus."
Ok : little lesson time : When you get a watcher, in general, just say nothing. This kind of question will accomplish nothing in the town's interest, unless the person you saw went to the house of someone who died :
- a mafioso will say "Yes, I went there." ot tell you not to ask.
- a townie will say "Yes, I went there." ot tell you not to ask. The Mafia may then deduct he has an ability that could be cop or doc.
Hmmm. I find this little "lecture" a bit odd. Almost like you are concerned that LJustus might not "figure this out" and you want to give him a heads up before he says something that might incriminate him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I'm glad you said that, since I was a bit puzzled by it too (excuse the pun).
Also, not wishing to state the obvious but we seem to have stalled out a bit here as far as making actual progress goes.
One vague thought: Various people have been saying they doubt the mafia are an outcasts group. It might be interesting to start some careful discussion about which groups we might expect to see represented. Not just as Mafia, but in general. (I say "careful" because obviously we don't want people's suggestions for groups inadvertantly revealing their own roles.)
So far we have a possible sports group, some possible outcasts and various spod types (Geek, Nerd, Hacker)... That still leaves quite a few school staples untouched.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
LJustus said he'd rather not answer the question. You saw that correct? Which doesn't say anything one way or the other whether or not he made any guesses as to what creampuffeater meant.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Come on Axel, I knew exactly what he was getting at. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.
Also, I didn't say that I'd rather not answer the question. I'd rather not give the mafia that information. There is a subtle but distinct difference.
I think it is high time that I compare the list of players who are still "enrolled" with the last time they posted in the thread and the last time they were online.
I didn't say you were born yesterday. I'm saying Puzzle might have thought that. Your answer was cautious. Which could be town. Also could be mafia who doesn't want to step into something potentially messy.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
armlx- Agentdark
Agentdark- armlx, fadeblue, bateleur, Axelrod, Matjoeman, LJustus, RafaelK, JCSuperstar, CropCircles, WOLG, Kenji, turbo
Not Voting
MoT, Puzzle, silicon, einsteinmonkey, creampuffeater, Azrael, Crippled Fist, & !Chucklez!
Early on in the day, a voice rings out "Agentdark is scum! I love him, but for the greater good, I will sacrifice us both to being uneducated and surviving off government cheese!" Armlx appears sorrowful and triumphant all at once.
"He's right," Agentdark replies, "my evil friends have backstabbed me so I will make a gift of our leaders name."
"We must get him expelled they all cry, but before we do, we should discuss the possibility that he may be lying."
As the day draws to and end, the votes accumulate and the information dwindles. Finally, Agentdark is led to Principal Mage's office.
I'm sorry son, but I can't help but listen to all these kids yelling for me to expell you. As he walks through those ugly double doors one last time, a wail rises from the pack. Armlx goes running into the dark after Agentdark.
Agentdark- The Goth Kid has been expelled
armlx- The Pot Head has dropped out.
Good morning boys and girls, this is your Principal Mr. Mage. Unfortunately, we have a few more unsavory announcements to make.
Students will please pay no attention to the flyers about our vice-principal. He assures us that he is not now nor will he ever be a $20/hour hooker. The perpetrator JCSuperstar has been expelled. On an anonymous tip, the original of the flyer was found on his computer. He will no longer be with us.
Also, on a more serious note, another student was attacked last night. Azrael has been admitted to the hospital until further notice. He will not be coming back to school and will instead transfer to St. Edwards school for boys next semester. A football was found on the scene, but no other clues to the attacker’s identity have been found.
No Longer Enrolled
JCSuperstar- The Class Clown
Azrael- The Nerd
With only 17 students left, it takes 9 to get someone expelled.
GL, town.
I'm curious to hear what MoT's analysis is.
That's a nice start, Axel, except that Az and Puzzle bicker a lot a I'm not entirely sure WoLG has ever made sense.
I'll have top review the thread later and see if I can come up with anything.
[The Family]
FOS: Cropcircles too. Wouldn't want you to feel left out.
Axel - I have to say I completely disagree with your FOS of Puzzle. If he planned to kill Azrael last night he would fight so publicly with him immediately beforehand.
Seems like we have a "framing" theme and a "sports" theme going on amongst the deaths. This suggests to me that either the mafia or the SK are jocks. Could have interesting implications for rolenames.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I meant to point out that their behaviour is pretty standard for them. I'm not excusing them, by any means. That would be like saying "StevieT92 is lurking, but that's okay because it's Stevie" even though he could be using that as an advantage because he's actually Two Face, the Serial Killer...or something like that. Yes, we should look into them, but when looking into someone for suspicious behaviour, we should also take into account that they act the same in other games as well.
Aww, how sweet.
This is an interesting point. However, ignoring the fact that you're entering WIFOM territory, there's nothing saying that Puzzle is a part of the group that killed Az.
[The Family]
Other then the fact that the idea that Armlx is a SK makes no sense, all of this is fine until he gets to that last part. Sure, LJustus could still be scum of some sort, but it is highly unlikely that he is the GF.
See above.
It may or may not be a good idea for bat or fade to come forward with this, but that is up to them.
I know I'm kind of doing the same thing here, but this is fishing for info.
Trusting scum is tech.
Looking over it, I don't think Turbo's statements really incriminate him much.
Well, I don't.
I'm rather confused about how coming out that you have info, but not saying what it is keeps townies from getting lynched.
Okay, so I just got invited to go see Doom, which means the rest of this will have to wait for later. :tongue2:
@bat and EM: If the info you guys have would hurt the town, by all means, ignore this. I'm just trying to remind everyone of possible things to discuss.
[The Family]
I don't think that Puzzle Vs. Azreal was scummy for Puzzle. After all it did go on in other games, so I think it has little to do with which is scum here.
Hopefully we can get another day as active as yesterday. I am enjoying this game.
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx
Cube
Other then the fact that the idea that Armlx is a SK makes no sense, all of this is fine until he gets to that last part. Sure, LJustus could still be scum of some sort, but it is highly unlikely that he is the GF.[QUOTE]
I don't have much to say about your other points, but this is completely wrong. If LJustus is any kind of scum he could only be a GF given what AgentDark did.
Also, I think I know what EM is talking about and there probably isn't a good reason to go into it quite yet.
Yeah, I was thinking about it more, and it isn't really relevant now.
Unfortunately I screwed that up by even talking about it.
[The Family]
If you meant he could be "scum" other than mafia, then fine. I'm not really talking about that. What I meant was that if he's mafia, he's only going to be the GF.
Yeah, I'm thinking that the SK is probably the one kiling with sports equipment, it goes along with the whole "Kill everyone to win" deal, and the sneaky -behind the scene- type killing is more in tune with the mafia. It was stated earlier that they might be a "student council" type thing, and that seems entirely plausible.
I'll have to agree with Axelrod on this, he really can't be scum unless he has the ability to hide from the cops...I doubt even AD is dumb enough to just give up 2 mafia to the town this early. I think that he was just trying to use reverse psycology to waste a cop investigation.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
[The Family]
What evidence is there of that though? The only thing that's really scummy at all about him is that he was presented by AD, who would not know if he was a cult or SK.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
I never said it was likely. I never tried to cast suspicion on him. I was stating that if someone did attack him, it should not be under the assumption that he is a Mafia Godfather. You said... ...which I consider scummy, because it is very unlikely that AD was telling the truth. This sounds more to me like a mafioso trying to get people to be suspcious of LJ. I said... I'm not suggesting it is likely that he is a SK or something. I simply stated it was possible.
[The Family]
In other news, it occurs to me that whilst we're all debating whether Puzzle is behind Azrael's demise, we're needlessly overlooking the night's other death. Why kill jcsuperstar in particular ? I decided to do a post-by-post analysis on jcsuperstar to see if I could spot any clues...
Post 21
Almost the only supporter of the idea that the sports deaths are the mafia... but it's not clear to me how the mafia could gain an advantage from the town mixing them up with the SK.
Post 39
Just a note - he was the 4th player to make such a vote.
Interesting speculation about what kind of thing might constitue a power role in High School.
Post 61
Uncontroverial shooting down of creampuffeater's idea.
Post 63
...and as it turned out he never really did.
Post 68
Here we see a pattern emerging. Long before Crippled Fist shows up Agentdark as a liar, jcsuperstar is already poking holes in his testimony.
A hopeless attempt, but again he's clearly not happy with Agentdark's info.
Post 77
Uncontroverial.
And, indeed, he didn't.
Post 129
This is the key point. And I have to say I concur with jcsuperstar on this one - I really don't think LJustus is likely to be the godfather.
By this point he seems to have changed his mind about which group is which based on information from Agentdark. He's also taking an interest in the seemingly odd choice of targets.
Post 135
This amounts to a change of stance from post 63.
Minor squabbling with WellOfLostGnomes, but since he never so much as aims a FOS at him I doubt this is the reason for jcsuperstar's death.
Post 138
More minor altercation with WellOfLostGnomes. Again, doesn't seem significant to me.
Post 164
...plus a load more questions for Agentdark which I won't reproduce here.
It seems like jcsuperstar was fairly convinced LJustus was not mafia and I have to say I'm inclined to agree. Is it possible the mafia killed him purely because they were still hoping some mud might stick to LJustus somehow ?
Post 171
Good summary.
Curious speculation. Don't know what to make of that.
Post 183
Another hint here: the mafia could be trying to defend the idea that something Agentdark said was true. This could be important, since if we knew every word was false that would give us information by elimination. In fact, it would leave LJustus as a cleared townie.
Potentially important info.
Appears suspicious of Crippled Fist. As such, there's always the vague possibility that Crippled Fist is mafia and wanted to shut jcsuperstar up before he turned this into a lynch campaign on day two. But probably not.
Well, with Azrael dead this basically amounts to even more LJustus advocacy.
Post 192
This may in fact have happened by now. If it hasn't, see comments on 183 above - it might be worth doing.
Post 201
More argument for the Crippled Fist theory.
Post 204
Actually, he did check in - jcsuperstar himself responded to one of his comments above.
So overall there seem to be two key points:
1) jcsuperstar appeared to believe Agentdark was talking nonsense and, in particular, that LJustus was not mafia.
2) jcsuperstar was slightly wary of Crippled Fist and wanted him investigated.
Which of these amounts to a more likely cause of death I'm not really sure. (Unless WellOfLostGnomes is wrong and jcsuperstar was killed by the SK, in which case only theory 2 works and Crippled Fist is the SK.)
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I find this interesting coming from the guy who yesterday pushed the barrow that there was only 1 scum group. I find it especially interesting given that the info from CrippledFist suggested there is only one scum "group". But perhaps you know it's not right and you just made a slip?
Total WIFOM point, bat. It's not worth getting into the "they killed Az so Puzzle would look bad for disagreeing!" "No, they did it so we'd think they were trying to frame Puzzle and so we'd trust Puzzle!" kind of thing.
Speaking of Puzzle- odd dreams and big shadows seem odd for this game. But it kind of sounds to me like maybe he was drugged or something? Roleblocking via drugs might make sense in this game. A little more inclined to trust Puzzle just because it sounds more descriptive than it would necessarily have to be if he was lying. OTOH, if Puzzle is just doing this to set up some sort of "I'm the doctor, but I keep getting roleblocked so that's why I haven't protected anyone" claim, I'll be very disappointed.
Any particular reason you're so sure about this? I admit I didn't follow Agentdark's stuff too closely, but even if he outright said something I wouldn't necessarily trust it. Even moreso than CropCircles' thing above about a second group, this seems exactly like the kind of info a mafia or SK might accidentally let slip- fairly unimportant, but nonehteless info that they have but which the town doesn't have. FOS Kenji
Saw bat's post while previewing. Number 2 seems vaguely more plausible, particularly since jc hadn't especially linked himself via a vote or something, he was just musing in that direction (the mafia may have even thought his request for an investigation meant he was the cop). Could also just be the killing of an active townie who hasn't committed to much and who isn't well known enough to be a likely random doc protect.
"I'm not suggesting it is likely...I simply stated it was possible."-CropCircles
I thought that there was an EXTREMELY slight possibility that AD might have put some valuable information in towards the end of his life, he would know that most of us would stop trusting him, thinking that sewing the seeds of doubt would cause more damage then any other option. I pretty much figured out that he was most likely flailing about trying to bring some more town with him, but there are always ack basswords trains of thought.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
I think Azrael would have been the mafia kill, and considering the "sports" nature of it, and the "dodge ball" kill night one, we might speculate that what we have is a "Jock" mafia of some kind. Immediate problem with that, however, is that AgentDark was not a Jock. He was "the Goth kid" which is almost anti-jock.
So that makes me think that, while there may be a Jock on the mafia who has done the kill the first two nights, the mafia is not simply "Jocks." Probably is composed of a variety of different Student types. The SK would then be some sort of subversive who frames people in various ways to get them expelled.
I hadn't thought of this. It would seem we will not have the luxury of being able to identify mafia by social groups as I had expected coming into this game.
Bat, I am inclined to agree with Axelrod on your Jc-CF theory. This looks more radnom-ish to me. I think that the mafia is going after lower profile players. I do, however, still recommend an investigation of CF. Having him confirmed could be very valuable later in the game.
of its steep paths have a chance of gaining its luminous summits"
-Karl Heinrich Marx
Cube
I'm just casting about for sources of ideas. In effect, it's like day 1 here because the lynch-on-a-plate yesterday has left us with little idea about what we plan to do today.
Anyone got any bright ideas ?
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
The entirety of my 'suspicion' was that it was an unsual ability, seen in two games back to back. As I said before though the ability fits with the claimed role. Add to that the drawbacks of trying to falseclaim it, especially on day one, and it's a good claim, and a basically confirmed townie.
Aw, thanks so much :love:. You may be happy to know that I now agree with you on this (or maybe it'll make you more suspicious :sneaky:). At the time I posted about that, I (obv.) figured it was more harmful to know the number, and it was more of a kneejerk reaction. After considering the pros and cons more however, I believe that it's probably more benficial to know the number than not.
[qoute=Puzzle]
Last Question @ RafaelK : does your death end the day or not ?[/QUOTE]
Quoted for emphasis. Please answer this question Raf.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
I am curious asto what magicianofthought has to say. I would have preferred to see his thoughts yesterday before the lynch. Holding the info makes it seem like scum trying to bait us with information - then suit that information to what takes place during the night.
Well, I'm off to lunch. More this afternoon.
Towines are not the only ones who get role blocked, there are sometimes townie role blockers working for the town. I'll agree with the MoT comment, we haven't really heard anything from him in a while.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
I don't know what "pushed the barrow" means, but I will admit to this as an error of terms. Mentally, I've always considered mafia, SK, cult, or whatever else as "scum groups," even though the SK is not at all a group. I'll try to be more specific in the future.
Up until now, I've prefered the idea that the SK was the one killing with sports stuff, but this makes a lot more sense then the mafia going after JC.
Somehow, I don't feel the need to join you on this wagon Puzzle.
I seem to feel the need to clarify a number of things this game. Oh wait...I always have to do that.
By "less inclined," I was referring to Turbo's role in Random. Furthermore, I have since changed my mind and now consider CF to be near confirmed. I never directly said so, but this post... ...somewhat demonstrates my change in opinion.
All of this assumes that dragyn's preception of High School stereotypes lines up with yours. I think it is much more likely that dragyn would have taken care not to allow for a mass claim to break the game. If they are all outcasts, then once we find another mafia and find he is an outcast, then we could mass claim and near confirm any player that has a role such as "cheerleader" or "jock." On the other hand, dragyn did hand us a free lynch with AD, so maybe the game is not so balanced. Still, it has already been noted that the Pothead/Goth connection doesn't make a lot of sense and I don't see how "bookie" fits in. Furthermore, I will say that my role name isn't something I would expect to find in a High School. So I'm not sure we should expect roles to work out so nicely.
Also, I doubt it is a misguided vig who is killing. The SK is a very common role, and without one, the game would be unbalanced. If it is, they should stop now.
WIFOM
[The Family]
I'm not sure I would admit if I was blocked, myself, since that would give away that you had an ability that could be blocked (this assumes you wouldn't get a PM about being "blocked" if you had no night choice. I can't actually say what Draygn is doing in this game.)
So, if the people who have been blocked and "know it" have no night choices, then the fact of being blocked means very little. If the people blocked had night choices that were blocked, it somewhat diminishes their chances of being mafia. I think that's right.
Though in this case the flavour of the blocking means that you probably would.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
X went down by 1, to 20. So it's now 20 x 19 survivors = 380 posts today (mod excluded).
Has creampuffeater posted in the game at all? It also seems that we haven't heard from matjoeman, and I am still waiting for magicianofthought's analysis.
Can we get a mod prompt for inactive players?
As for roleblocking, does anyone know whether it typically affects passive abilities or only active ones ? By which I mean if my role has, for example, "You cannot be targetted by <something>", will roleblocking disable this ? Also, would a Mafia roleblocker be applied before or after the Mafia's nightkill ?
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Are you sure the shadow means that you have been role blocked? It could mean something else, because I have reason to believe that I was role blocked last night, but I recieved no such pm.
I reread the thread, I agree with most of Cropcircle's points expressed in posts #241, 251, 266, so minor FoS: WOLG and Axelrodfor believing AD, I still don't have very strong suspicions about them.
Also in post 69
Ljustus says that the mafia godfather name would be something like metalhead, and then AD uses that when giving out the mafia's role names. So very likely this means AD was lying about this part too.
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
Slight FOS on Matjoeman. Not bolding it on purpose - so it doesn't really count. You have Puzzle giving information and me confirming it, yet you question it? The only way that I can believe that anyone would question this is if you think that Puzzle and I are "in cahoots" or something. Reviewing the thread, do you really find that very likely?
@ CPE (as I will now call creampuffeater CPE because creampuffeater is too long to type every time): I don't want to give the mafia that piece of information at this point in the game. (That and you don't get to ask questions when it's day 2 and only your fourth post in the game. :p)
These are not the same. LJustus, was there a "shadow" over your house, or did you see a "shadowy figure?" Did you have strange dreams? I'm mainly asking because you reacted like the same thing happened to you--making you feel Puzzle is likely town-- but what you posted was different.
Matjoeman: I take it from your response that there was neither a "shadow" or a "shadowy figure" associated with your role-block?
Hmmm. I find this little "lecture" a bit odd. Almost like you are concerned that LJustus might not "figure this out" and you want to give him a heads up before he says something that might incriminate him.
Also, not wishing to state the obvious but we seem to have stalled out a bit here as far as making actual progress goes.
One vague thought: Various people have been saying they doubt the mafia are an outcasts group. It might be interesting to start some careful discussion about which groups we might expect to see represented. Not just as Mafia, but in general. (I say "careful" because obviously we don't want people's suggestions for groups inadvertantly revealing their own roles.)
So far we have a possible sports group, some possible outcasts and various spod types (Geek, Nerd, Hacker)... That still leaves quite a few school staples untouched.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Also, I didn't say that I'd rather not answer the question. I'd rather not give the mafia that information. There is a subtle but distinct difference.
I think it is high time that I compare the list of players who are still "enrolled" with the last time they posted in the thread and the last time they were online.