Meh, I think this card is very overhyped.
There's a point where being efficient for X mana isn't really enough and you need to be guaranteed something for your mana.
The question becomes at what point do you need to be guaranteed something for your mana investment?
To me, what makes the Titans so much more powerful than this is that you are guaranteed at least something once they hit the battlefield. If Primeval Titan resolves and gets hit with Path the moment it comes down you still got your Valakuts. If Grave Titan comes down and gets Path'd you still get a couple of zombies. Any Titan gives you something, and even though the value of that something varies it is still something. Dumping six mana into a creature only to have it exiled by your opponent is a very poor investment. Just imagine if we get a cheap "exile artifact" card. This thing basically becomes useless. Nobody in their right mind would spend 6 mana on something that has a cool effect that your opponent can completely work around. You can't work around a Titan's ability. You can only limit how many times your opponent can use a Titan's effect.
At least it has lifelink. If it weren't for that I don't think this would really have a chance. With lifelink it at least gives you something even when it's just being chump blocked by tokens all day.
What's this "Path" thing you keep on going about? In the standard reality where this Wurm exists there's not a card with that name. You do have a point in that Titans are superior on having effects on coming into play, however, it's silly to disregard this Wurm based on the current enviroment as opposed to the one that will be around in 2 months.
Also, for all people complaining this doesn't feel mythic: It's a frigging gigantic mechanical wurm made of two artifact wurms with different abilities coiled together and powered by some unholy engine. If you can downplay that, how do the titans feel mythic either? If it were on you all our mythic cards would be "ROWR I'm the big-bad planet-eating God from before time with CMC 10 or more!"
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
I speak and read Japanese and I was reading the original posts etc on the Japanese forum.
It is most certainly AND not or.
So, just to be clear:
Due to your familiarity with Japanese script, you are certain that the text in the blurry image there translates to "and" and not "or" in the relevant place?
For my curiosity, could you tell us which character it is that is 'obscured' (to us) by the foil watermark treatment?
Or, do you know because someone on that forum knows, himself, something beyond the image itself, and you're telling us what he or she knows?
*~*~*~
@Maokun: I can turn that around.
Can you show me now a Rare which couldn't be mythic rare, if this and the titans are?
I'm being completely honest with myself and my senses: I have found no regularity in the mythic category. I do not know where WotC is pulling the MR label from.
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Also, for all people complaining this doesn't feel mythic: It's a frigging gigantic mechanical wurm made of two artifact wurms with different abilities coiled together and powered by some unholy engine. If you can downplay that, how do the titans feel mythic either? If it were on you all our mythic cards would be "ROWR I'm the big-bad planet-eating God from before time with CMC 10 or more!"
Novablast Wurm is a card that "feels" Mythic. Progenitus is a card that "feels" Mythic. Mythic cards are supposed to be powerful, unique cards that generally aren't going to be 4-ofs in any decks. When Wizards prints cards like Vengevine, or depending on the meta, this card, they lose a little faith in what Wizard's scope of a Mythic actually is.
Also, for all people complaining this doesn't feel mythic: It's a frigging gigantic mechanical wurm made of two artifact wurms with different abilities coiled together and powered by some unholy engine. If you can downplay that, how do the titans feel mythic either? If it were on you all our mythic cards would be "ROWR I'm the big-bad planet-eating God from before time with CMC 10 or more!"
There have been uncommon wurms, even larger wurms than this. The Wurm's Dual nature? Shadowmoor had a cycle of that. Unholy engine? Magic is full of those. A card should not be Mythic just for being a solid powerhouse. It needs something truly unusual.
Best use of the Mythic Rare label IMHO? Obsidian Fireheart. It is decently powerful, has kickass art, and has an unusual ability with very silly reminder text. If you open this from a pack, it feels different, and and rare spell. And most importantly, It isn't really a tournament winning machine.
I'm being completely honest with myself and my senses: I have found no regularity in the mythic category. I do not know where WotC is pulling the MR label from.
Can we please not turn this into a nother thread bashing the mythic rarity? Dont we have other threads for that allready?
That said, I think the card is good, but not over-the-top so. 6/6 for 6 given current creature power levels I dont think is that big a deal. The extra added abilites certainly do make it nice though. Will it see constructed play? Probably. Will it be some dominant force in the format to which all other big beaters are compared to? Highly doubtful.
I like it. Its certainly going to see some love in EDH, and I could easily see it having a good time in constructed. It is a decent counter to the Titans, able to take them down or race them. I could see this being a strong finisher in some decks.
But more than anything I'm happy this is one of the Mythics. It feels dangerous enough (even if it doesn't feel quite as mythic as some), and while its strong it doesn't feel like a Jace 2.0. I expect it'll see some play, but not enough to make is stupid expensive.
I'm not happy with the existence of this card. The power creep may be a touch too much here, or will lead to the precedence of the next mythic rare next cycle of a 5/5 for 5 that has Deathtouch and Trample.:P
But seriously, I think this only costs 6 to justify it at mythic, it should be 7. 7 makes it seem a little more balanced, and a little more susceptible to mana leak. I'm sure R&D tested the crap out of this thing, so I'm not worried, but I can't help but feel the mythic rarity isn't justified on this card.
I think that if we see counterspell in standard again we're going to have to worry about seeing a deathouch + Trample 5/5 for 5 though.
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To be honest, I don't think that this card is overpowered in the context of MtG since 2008. Many still compare the creatures today to the creatures of yesteryear; of course a removal-resistent 6/6 for 6 without drawbacks would be beyond awesome in 2005, but this isn't 2005. Llorwyn changed the way creatures are designed when they decided that 2 power 1 drops are to be in every set, and that a 3/3 deathtouch for 2 isn't too good. three of the best creatures in the game have been printed in the last 2 years. In comparison to these creatures, there is nothing out of the ordinary about an ability-laden 6/6 for 6.
In fact, these creatures may still not be good enough. Many do not seem to realize what is going to happen to type 2 if an ability as powerful as cascade doesn't feature. Cascade is what is keeping Jace, TMS and counter-based control decks in check. In fact, i wouldn't be surprised if wotc brings back affinity to combat what may end up being the most oppressive constructed format since 2004. When people are getting their Cultivate's Spell Pierced post-rotation, they are going to see where this is going.
I suppose what I am trying to say is as of now, don't bet on this being the most insane card ever.
Its a great card. Its Titan level power without any commitments (other than getting to 6 mana). I want to use this thing. I don't know what kind of deck id most want him in, but ill gladly take him.
Due to your familiarity with Japanese script, you are certain that the text in the blurry image there translates to "and" and not "or" in the relevant place?
For my curiosity, could you tell us which character it is that is 'obscured' (to us) by the foil watermark treatment?
Or, do you know because someone on that forum knows, himself, something beyond the image itself, and you're telling us what he or she knows?
*~*~*~
@Maokun: I can turn that around.
Can you show me now a Rare which couldn't be mythic rare, if this and the titans are?
I'm being completely honest with myself and my senses: I have found no regularity in the mythic category. I do not know where WotC is pulling the MR label from.
Well a little bit of both.
It appears to be an and personally to me looking at the image.
But above all, the original poster and basically all of the discussion on 2ch is about AND. There is hardly a mention of the possibility of it being an or. However I have not read 100% of the thread.
Due to your familiarity with Japanese script, you are certain that the text in the blurry image there translates to "and" and not "or" in the relevant place?
We got a crystal-clear scan like six pages ago, dude. Check it out.
Seems awesome to me. Scars coming in means Shards leaving, taking path to exile with it. That means, besides Oblivion Ring, Jace, and Condemn are the only "favorable" ways to deal with it.
Still though, the existance of the titans means that every color has access to a powerful fattie if need be. Unless we can take advantage of this card's artifact nature, I don't think I'd run it over any of the titans.
Seems awesome to me. Scars coming in means Shards leaving, taking path to exile with it. That means, besides Oblivion Ring, Jace, and Condemn are the only "favorable" ways to deal with it.
Still though, the existance of the titans means that every color has access to a powerful fattie if need be. Unless we can take advantage of this card's artifact nature, I don't think I'd run it over any of the titans.
Look I'm hoping if I cross fingers and wish really hard. O-ring will be reprinted in Scars. (but yes it roating) I see this card being like Sun Titan where people were excited at first.. then got down on it as other cards were spoiled in M11, but decks did find a way to use it and it has tourment play. Why i dont think card will be a "staple" by any means. I do think has a place and will be seeing. As far as price im guessing Sun Titan range of 8-10.
Anyone else think that these Infect decks will be incredibly susceptible to Planeswalkers?
I will relish the first few weeks when my opponent swings this or the other Infect baddies into my Jace 2.0 and I say "ok no blocks" and they look at me dumbfounded as I lose no loyalty and gain no poison counters.
I'm sure noobs will catch on quickly but I know the above situation will happen.
Look I'm hoping if I cross fingers and wish really hard. O-ring will be reprinted in Scars. (but yes it roating) I see this card being like Sun Titan where people were excited at first.. then got down on it as other cards were spoiled in M11, but decks did find a way to use it and it has tourment play. Why i dont think card will be a "staple" by any means. I do think has a place and will be seeing. As far as price im guessing Sun Titan range of 8-10.
I am hoping too. Most of the decks i have played since lorwyn (except faeries of course) has used O Ring.
And I imagine it will be roughly Sun Titan like, yeah. It is a powerful card but the question is will it find a home...
that guy actually DOES look quite incredible. With PtO leaving the format, he might be even on par with Baneslayer as a control finisher, probably worse than Grave Titan tho (and BSA still leagues ahead on midrage)
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Look what I got on my way home? Surprised? So was I.
Im fairly sure there will be a 1 W exile target artifact spell. That of course doesn;t help other colors :/ but this card is pushing the mana curve a bit much 6 for 6 mana geez when blue gets a spell like that its generally makes u sac a island or turn or can only attack if the other player has some card :/ This is going to see play alot in decks
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There have been uncommon wurms, even larger wurms than this. The Wurm's Dual nature? Shadowmoor had a cycle of that. Unholy engine? Magic is full of those. A card should not be Mythic just for being a solid powerhouse. It needs something truly unusual.
Best use of the Mythic Rare label IMHO? Obsidian Fireheart. It is decently powerful, has kickass art, and has an unusual ability with very silly reminder text. If you open this from a pack, it feels different, and and rare spell. And most importantly, It isn't really a tournament winning machine.
You gotta revisit your definiton of "mythic". Mythic is not something "different" or "unusual". It's something amazing, epic, or legendary. I'd say Fireheart is not that quite notewhorty under that light; it looks just like another middle-sized elemental, of which there surely might be hundreds in Zendikar. Sure, the ability is unusual but we also get common and uncommon cards with unusual abilities from time to time. The engine at least seem big, powerful and rare enough that you can figure Phyrexia has only a handful of these if not just one in its lines.
I agree that Wizards have misemployed the label "Mythic" before (Lotus Cobra jumps to mind) but this is definitely not one of those cases. Please note that "being a tournament winning machine" is not a forbidding characteric for a mythic card. All rarities can have that kind of relevance (forgot already Bloodbraid Elf?) and certainly, we get a good amount of non tournament-worthy Mythics.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
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What's this "Path" thing you keep on going about? In the standard reality where this Wurm exists there's not a card with that name. You do have a point in that Titans are superior on having effects on coming into play, however, it's silly to disregard this Wurm based on the current enviroment as opposed to the one that will be around in 2 months.
Also, for all people complaining this doesn't feel mythic: It's a frigging gigantic mechanical wurm made of two artifact wurms with different abilities coiled together and powered by some unholy engine. If you can downplay that, how do the titans feel mythic either? If it were on you all our mythic cards would be "ROWR I'm the big-bad planet-eating God from before time with CMC 10 or more!"
So, just to be clear:
Due to your familiarity with Japanese script, you are certain that the text in the blurry image there translates to "and" and not "or" in the relevant place?
For my curiosity, could you tell us which character it is that is 'obscured' (to us) by the foil watermark treatment?
Or, do you know because someone on that forum knows, himself, something beyond the image itself, and you're telling us what he or she knows?
*~*~*~
@Maokun: I can turn that around.
Can you show me now a Rare which couldn't be mythic rare, if this and the titans are?
I'm being completely honest with myself and my senses: I have found no regularity in the mythic category. I do not know where WotC is pulling the MR label from.
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I would be ok with a 6 5/5, or a 7 6/6.
It's getting ridiculous how the mythics are forced to be overpowered.
Novablast Wurm is a card that "feels" Mythic. Progenitus is a card that "feels" Mythic. Mythic cards are supposed to be powerful, unique cards that generally aren't going to be 4-ofs in any decks. When Wizards prints cards like Vengevine, or depending on the meta, this card, they lose a little faith in what Wizard's scope of a Mythic actually is.
Best use of the Mythic Rare label IMHO? Obsidian Fireheart. It is decently powerful, has kickass art, and has an unusual ability with very silly reminder text. If you open this from a pack, it feels different, and and rare spell. And most importantly, It isn't really a tournament winning machine.
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That said, I think the card is good, but not over-the-top so. 6/6 for 6 given current creature power levels I dont think is that big a deal. The extra added abilites certainly do make it nice though. Will it see constructed play? Probably. Will it be some dominant force in the format to which all other big beaters are compared to? Highly doubtful.
But more than anything I'm happy this is one of the Mythics. It feels dangerous enough (even if it doesn't feel quite as mythic as some), and while its strong it doesn't feel like a Jace 2.0. I expect it'll see some play, but not enough to make is stupid expensive.
-ChenMaestro
But seriously, I think this only costs 6 to justify it at mythic, it should be 7. 7 makes it seem a little more balanced, and a little more susceptible to mana leak. I'm sure R&D tested the crap out of this thing, so I'm not worried, but I can't help but feel the mythic rarity isn't justified on this card.
I think that if we see counterspell in standard again we're going to have to worry about seeing a deathouch + Trample 5/5 for 5 though.
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In fact, these creatures may still not be good enough. Many do not seem to realize what is going to happen to type 2 if an ability as powerful as cascade doesn't feature. Cascade is what is keeping Jace, TMS and counter-based control decks in check. In fact, i wouldn't be surprised if wotc brings back affinity to combat what may end up being the most oppressive constructed format since 2004. When people are getting their Cultivate's Spell Pierced post-rotation, they are going to see where this is going.
I suppose what I am trying to say is as of now, don't bet on this being the most insane card ever.
It's just really cool.
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Well a little bit of both.
It appears to be an and personally to me looking at the image.
But above all, the original poster and basically all of the discussion on 2ch is about AND. There is hardly a mention of the possibility of it being an or. However I have not read 100% of the thread.
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We got a crystal-clear scan like six pages ago, dude. Check it out.
Well i can tell you know that it is 100% AND then. That is impossible to get wrong with that scan.
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Still though, the existance of the titans means that every color has access to a powerful fattie if need be. Unless we can take advantage of this card's artifact nature, I don't think I'd run it over any of the titans.
Currently 62/265 cards.
If I am not mistake O ring also leaves. Do you mean Journey to Nowhere?
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Look I'm hoping if I cross fingers and wish really hard. O-ring will be reprinted in Scars. (but yes it roating) I see this card being like Sun Titan where people were excited at first.. then got down on it as other cards were spoiled in M11, but decks did find a way to use it and it has tourment play. Why i dont think card will be a "staple" by any means. I do think has a place and will be seeing. As far as price im guessing Sun Titan range of 8-10.
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I am hoping too. Most of the decks i have played since lorwyn (except faeries of course) has used O Ring.
And I imagine it will be roughly Sun Titan like, yeah. It is a powerful card but the question is will it find a home...
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So how does Novablast "feel" Mythic and this doesn't? Do you realise you're using a totally subjective term?
You gotta revisit your definiton of "mythic". Mythic is not something "different" or "unusual". It's something amazing, epic, or legendary. I'd say Fireheart is not that quite notewhorty under that light; it looks just like another middle-sized elemental, of which there surely might be hundreds in Zendikar. Sure, the ability is unusual but we also get common and uncommon cards with unusual abilities from time to time. The engine at least seem big, powerful and rare enough that you can figure Phyrexia has only a handful of these if not just one in its lines.
I agree that Wizards have misemployed the label "Mythic" before (Lotus Cobra jumps to mind) but this is definitely not one of those cases. Please note that "being a tournament winning machine" is not a forbidding characteric for a mythic card. All rarities can have that kind of relevance (forgot already Bloodbraid Elf?) and certainly, we get a good amount of non tournament-worthy Mythics.