Rather than contain discussion for one deck type to a single thread, we are going to try and contain them to a single sub-forum. In this sub-forum, only discussions about the UR/g Destructive Force archetype will be permitted. These discussions will be limited to Competitive rules, meaning: no budget discussions, no availability discussions, and testing and results to back up your arguments. I will be strictly enforcing this. If you see someone having a budget discussion, please report it.
Threads in this sub-forum will be user created. However, threads with no discussion will be pruned quickly to prevent necroing and confusion.
Remember, this is competitive. Arguments are expected to backed up with logic, testing and results. This means real testing against competitive decks and quality players and results from better than 8k REL tournaments (FNM results do not count).
Please post all Tournament Results here. It is important to keep this thread clean, so only tournaments results should go here. Do not discuss or comment on the results here.
When posting results, include as many details as possible including k value of the event. Please post game and match results for every round. Sideboarding ins/outs are recommended. When posting round results, an indication of the quality of deck and player are always helpful. This will help other gauge the importance of each match.
Yeah, but Ruinblaster doesn't wipe the board of 0/1 green Plant creature tokens that come from Avenger of Zendikar and start getting +1/+1 counters. Sure D Force handles the job nicely, but extra LD and wipe effects are nice. Especially at instant speed.
At first glance I really like the idea but I wonder if it is just too expensive. 3RR is still quite a bit even if we are ramping ourselves. Early on when they are using Explore and Cultivate we won't be able to use this and later on when they are searching up lands off Primeval Titan it seems like it might not be enough. While it is nice to kill their Eye of Ugin and Temple, or Valakuts, we still have to deal with the Titan as well. I agree that later on, when they use a fetchland to pump up Avenger tokens, this is a house but I just feel like I'm always going to end up using it in situations where it isn't at its strongest. But I could be wrong since I haven't tested with it myself either.
Beat U/W twice, lost to a B/R Vampires (where were you pyroclasm!!) and won against Mono-White Quest.
Yes, I played Wurmcoil instead of Frost Titan because I don't have any yet. Frost Titan would be a significant upgrade.
Just a couple things I noted while playing it...
-volition reigns is stupid good. Against U/W, I sided out my Wurmcoils and brought in the Reigns and the plan was to Jace them or steal one of their wincons. Beating someone with their own Wurmcoil Engine or Sun Titan felt dirty, in a good way! I also got to reigns a Gideon, which was awesome too.
-It is possible that I may drop to 1 Destructive Force, sometimes two would clog your hand, but a resolved force with Jace or Wurmcoil down was pretty much game over.
-I'm also not too sure on the Burst Lightnings vs. Lightning Bolt, they are both quality cards and Burst can handle 4 toughness, still not sure about this
Round 1- U/W Control
Game 1- I keep a suspect hand, and have no action while he sculpts a hand full of counter magic. He plays Leonin Arbiter maindeck, which I leak one and burst another, however I continue to draw lands and he sticks a Gideon which I cannot deal with and onto game 2...
Game 2- I play some early everflowing chalices and spell pierce helps me keep him off jace, while I stick a mindsculptor and brainstorm a few times into gas. Eventually I tectonic edge most of his white sources but he manages to stick a Wurmcoil, which I volition reigns and ride to victory but not before he plays a Gideon, which I also steal with another reigns.
SB-Same
Game 3- Again we get into jace fights with neither of us sticking a jace, however he sticks a Kor Firewalker. I Force with 2 chalices set on 1 and 2 and some extra land to his 6 lands to bring him to one land and he is beating me down with the Kor. Eventually I get Jace 2.0 down to find an answer in the form of volition reigns. He plays another firewalker to trade with my stolen one, and I Jace Ultimate him by keeping him off lands.
Match Results 2-1
Round 2- U/W Control
Game 1- I get a 3rd turn Jace Beleren and get 3 draws out of him before he is taken care of. At that point my opponent seems land screwed and I play a Mindscuptor and a destructive force to seal the deal.
SB-Same as above
Game 2-My opponent gets a turn 2 Luminarch Ascension, that I have no answers for and die to a bunch of 4/4 Angels
SB-Same as above but removed 2 Burst Lightnings for 2 Into the Roils
Game 3-My opponent has a open hand Leyline of Sanctity which screwed my Jace him out plan and he followed it up later with a Luminarch as well. However using Tect Edges I keep him off white mana, reigns both the luminarch and the leyline and counter his Frost Titan and Baneslayer. *just a side note, I had already reigns the luminarch and leyline and wasnt aware he was playing Frosty, until he tried to play him, had I let it resolve I would not have had enough mana to steal him with counter back up* I play mindsculptor and start sealing myself to build his loyalty and search for a reigns just in case. He plays Sun Titan and I have no counter back up, but with reigns in hand, I steal him, and recur my tect edges to mana screw him and kill him with his own titan.
Match Results 2-1
Round 3- B/R Vampires
Game 1- Not much to say, I keep an all blue hand, with some counter magic and a jace, but get run over by 1st turn lacerator, turn to corrupted zendikon and no pyroclasm in sight.
SB- Out 2 Volition Reigns and Jace's Ingenuity for Flame Slash and 2 Into the Roil
Game 2- I keep a double Wurmcoil hand, with a Jace. He gets turn 1 Pulse Tracker, which I into the roil, to cushion my life total, but I still cannot find a pyroclasm with 2 Preordains. He over commits, with a bunch of dorks I play Wurmcoil to stop the bleeding and he plays smoldering spires so wurmy cannot block and I die to a bunch of weenies.
Match Results 0-2
Round 4 WW Quest
Game 1 He plays an early quest, and three dudes, that I pyroclasm away. Then I ramp to Wurmcoil + Force that takes him down to 2. He manages to get armor on the board, but Wurm tokens get there for the win.
SB Out-2 Reigns and Ingenuity, IN-Flame Slash and 2 Roils
Game 2 he mulls to 6 and I kill everything in site with point removal and pyroclasms. I stick a Mindsculptor and Wurmcoil backed up with Force.
Match Results 2-0
The deck did perform solid, I believe in the aggro match up, and I don't think I was aggressive enough to mulligan vs. the Vampires list, which in retrospect I should have mulled to make sure I had point removal or a clasm. So the loss is all on me. Volition Reigns again is amazing in the control mirror and I had a ton of fun. I played to a horrible 3-4 record at states and didn't have nearly the amount of fun I had playing U/R.
Sorry if the report was short and/or missing details I usually don't do reports but I had a ton of fun with the deck!
I think it's a bad idea. personally. By the time you destructive force you should already have your titan out (preferably Frosty). If they have creatures out that die to DF then they are probably not creatures you want (unless it's a Wall of omens perhaps). Even in that situation is it worth paying three mana for one card when you yourself might only have 2-3 mana available? Now, if they have their Titan out, it's obviously optimal to have frosty out so you can tap down their titan and swing in for lethal damage.
the best play... in my opinion.
Turn 1 - Island, Preordain
Turn 2 - Forest, Explore, Island, Preordain
Turn 3 - Rootbound Crag, Garruk, Untap two lands, Chalice for one.
Turn 4 - Mountain, Frost Titan, Untap Two lands, mana open for Mana leak
Turn 5 - Destructive force, (Or Jace 2.0 if you don't have a force to dig).
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Turn 1 - Island, Preordain
Turn 2 - Forest, Explore, Island, Preordain
Turn 3 - Rootbound Crag, Garruk, Untap two lands, Chalice for one.
Turn 4 - Mountain, Frost Titan, Untap Two lands, mana open for Mana leak
Turn 5 - Destructive force, (Or Jace 2.0 if you don't have a force to dig).
^That's my best play right there.
Yeah, and that happens how often without any disruption at all? You have 9 cards in the first three turns to make that work, so yeah. I have my 2 Vats to smooth out the deck when I don't get the God-draw like you do.
Mimic Vat is strong with this deck but not to steal their creatures after you play Destructive Force. That happens and it can be a strong play, but it's the flexibility of the Vat that makes it so good.
For me it is a 3 mana insurance policy. Nobody kills your Titan when you have a Vat in play and I am pretty sure that we all know how brutal an unchecked Titan (any of them) can be. When a card keeps people from killing your main win condition that seems good.
The problem I have with the Vat is that it can be dead a lot. We don't have a lot of removal in our deck and we can't turn the Vat on very easy. Post Destructive Force it is good, but basically any threat post Force is good.
The problem I have with the Vat is that it can be dead a lot. We don't have a lot of removal in our deck and we can't turn the Vat on very easy. Post Destructive Force it is good, but basically any threat post Force is good.
It turns off their removal as well. I have never lost with a Mimic Vat and a Frost Titan on the board.
Yeah, and that happens how often without any disruption at all? You have 9 cards in the first three turns to make that work, so yeah. I have my 2 Vats to smooth out the deck when I don't get the God-draw like you do.
Mimic Vat is strong with this deck but not to steal their creatures after you play Destructive Force. That happens and it can be a strong play, but it's the flexibility of the Vat that makes it so good.
For me it is a 3 mana insurance policy. Nobody kills your Titan when you have a Vat in play and I am pretty sure that we all know how brutal an unchecked Titan (any of them) can be. When a card keeps people from killing your main win condition that seems good.
Yea... i probably should have said that is probably the best play with ultimate card draws. but I like this deck because it's versatile and once you get that destructive force out, it totally destroys opponents.
And i guess... from my point... i'm not sure when i would want to cast it. If i'm on track for turn 6-8 D-force, i'm not sure when exactly i would want to or have time to cast it.
And i guess... from my point... i'm not sure when i would want to cast it. If i'm on track for turn 6-8 D-force, i'm not sure when exactly i would want to or have time to cast it.
I would agree here as well, in the early turns I am looking to either hold Mana Leak mana or ramp, in the mid game I want to be dropping Titans and setting up Destructive Force.
Posts regarding budget discussion made outside of this thread WILL BE INFRACTED.
Threads in this sub-forum will be user created. However, threads with no discussion will be pruned quickly to prevent necroing and confusion.
Remember, this is competitive. Arguments are expected to backed up with logic, testing and results. This means real testing against competitive decks and quality players and results from better than 8k REL tournaments (FNM results do not count).
Deck types allowed in this sub-forum:
UR/g Destructive Force
UR Destructive Force
HOMEBREWS ARE NOT PERMITTED.
When posting results, include as many details as possible including k value of the event. Please post game and match results for every round. Sideboarding ins/outs are recommended. When posting round results, an indication of the quality of deck and player are always helpful. This will help other gauge the importance of each match.
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
Creatures
4x Frost Titan
2x Inferno Titan
2x Sylvan Ranger
Spells
4x Mana Leak
4x Foresee
2x Into the Roil
4x Destructive Force
3x Lightning Bolt
4x Explore
3x Cultivate
6x Island
1x Halimar Depths
6x Mountain
3x Raging Ravine
5x Forest
1x Khalni Garden
2x Terramorphic Expanse
1x Mystifying Maze
2x Volition Reins
4x Negate
4x Pyroclasm
2x Obstinate Baloth
3x Naturalize
DECK STATS
It is good to learn from your failures, but I prefer to learn from the failures of others.
3x Frost Titan
2x Primeval Titan
Spells(29)
4x Explore
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Mana Leak
3x Cultivate
3x Destructive Force
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Into the Roil
2x Preordain
4x Forest
4x Island
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Raging Ravine
3x Mountain
2x Halimar Depths
2x Scalding Tarn
2x Tectonic Edge
1x Khalni Garden
4x Negate
4x Pyroclasm
3x Obstinate Baloth
2x Flashfreeze
2x Voliton Reins
My post-States list.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Copperline Gorge
4 Raging Ravine
5 Forest
5 Island
3 Mountain
4 Preordain
4 Explore
4 Mana Leak
3 Destructive force
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Lotus Cobra
3 Frost Titan
1 Inferno Titan
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Deprive
2 Negate
4 Pyroclasm
2 Inferno Titan
2011-2012:Bantblade, BantPod
2010-2011:Bant Shaman, Naya Shaman, Naya allies + Scars, URG Turboforce
2009-2010:Naya allies, Mono-White Titan Control
But I wouldn't play it now, since I've rediscovered the joys of Goblin Ruinblaster instead.
My trade list: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=227791
3 Frost Titan
1 Inferno Titan
Spells - 30
1 Forked Bolt
4 Preordain
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
1 Negate
4 Cancel
2 Mimic Vat
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Jace's Intuition
2 Volition Reigns
1 Destructive Force
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Tectonic Edge
1 Mystifying Maze
8 Island
5 Mountain
1 Forked Bolt
3 Negate
2 Pyroclasm
4 Flashfreeze
2 Chain Reaction
2 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Destructive Force
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
I came in 3rd at my local FNM, about 20 people with this list...
26 Land
4 Scalding Tarns
4 Evolving Wilds
3 Tectonic Edge
10 Islands
5 Mountains
3 Creatures
3 Wurmcoil Engine
22 Spells
4 Mana Leak
4 Pyroclasm
4 Preordain
3 Burst Lightning
2 Volition Reigns
2 Deprive
2 Destructive Force
1 Jace’s Ingenuity
5 Planeswalkers
4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Jace Beleren
4 Artifacts
4 Everflowing Chalice
15 Sideboard
4 Flashfreeze
2 Negate
2 Spell Pierce
2 Jace Beleren
2 Into the Roil
1 Volition Reigns
1 Jace’s Ingenuity
1 Flame Slash
Beat U/W twice, lost to a B/R Vampires (where were you pyroclasm!!) and won against Mono-White Quest.
Yes, I played Wurmcoil instead of Frost Titan because I don't have any yet. Frost Titan would be a significant upgrade.
Just a couple things I noted while playing it...
-volition reigns is stupid good. Against U/W, I sided out my Wurmcoils and brought in the Reigns and the plan was to Jace them or steal one of their wincons. Beating someone with their own Wurmcoil Engine or Sun Titan felt dirty, in a good way! I also got to reigns a Gideon, which was awesome too.
-It is possible that I may drop to 1 Destructive Force, sometimes two would clog your hand, but a resolved force with Jace or Wurmcoil down was pretty much game over.
-I'm also not too sure on the Burst Lightnings vs. Lightning Bolt, they are both quality cards and Burst can handle 4 toughness, still not sure about this
Round 1- U/W Control
Game 1- I keep a suspect hand, and have no action while he sculpts a hand full of counter magic. He plays Leonin Arbiter maindeck, which I leak one and burst another, however I continue to draw lands and he sticks a Gideon which I cannot deal with and onto game 2...
SB- Out- 4 Pyroclasm, 3 Wurmcoil Engine, 1 Destructive Force
In- 2 Negate, 2 Spell Pierce, 2 Jace Beleren, 1 Volition Reigns, 1 Jace's Ingenuity
Game 2- I play some early everflowing chalices and spell pierce helps me keep him off jace, while I stick a mindsculptor and brainstorm a few times into gas. Eventually I tectonic edge most of his white sources but he manages to stick a Wurmcoil, which I volition reigns and ride to victory but not before he plays a Gideon, which I also steal with another reigns.
SB-Same
Game 3- Again we get into jace fights with neither of us sticking a jace, however he sticks a Kor Firewalker. I Force with 2 chalices set on 1 and 2 and some extra land to his 6 lands to bring him to one land and he is beating me down with the Kor. Eventually I get Jace 2.0 down to find an answer in the form of volition reigns. He plays another firewalker to trade with my stolen one, and I Jace Ultimate him by keeping him off lands.
Match Results 2-1
Round 2- U/W Control
Game 1- I get a 3rd turn Jace Beleren and get 3 draws out of him before he is taken care of. At that point my opponent seems land screwed and I play a Mindscuptor and a destructive force to seal the deal.
SB-Same as above
Game 2-My opponent gets a turn 2 Luminarch Ascension, that I have no answers for and die to a bunch of 4/4 Angels
SB-Same as above but removed 2 Burst Lightnings for 2 Into the Roils
Game 3-My opponent has a open hand Leyline of Sanctity which screwed my Jace him out plan and he followed it up later with a Luminarch as well. However using Tect Edges I keep him off white mana, reigns both the luminarch and the leyline and counter his Frost Titan and Baneslayer. *just a side note, I had already reigns the luminarch and leyline and wasnt aware he was playing Frosty, until he tried to play him, had I let it resolve I would not have had enough mana to steal him with counter back up* I play mindsculptor and start sealing myself to build his loyalty and search for a reigns just in case. He plays Sun Titan and I have no counter back up, but with reigns in hand, I steal him, and recur my tect edges to mana screw him and kill him with his own titan.
Match Results 2-1
Round 3- B/R Vampires
Game 1- Not much to say, I keep an all blue hand, with some counter magic and a jace, but get run over by 1st turn lacerator, turn to corrupted zendikon and no pyroclasm in sight.
SB- Out 2 Volition Reigns and Jace's Ingenuity for Flame Slash and 2 Into the Roil
Game 2- I keep a double Wurmcoil hand, with a Jace. He gets turn 1 Pulse Tracker, which I into the roil, to cushion my life total, but I still cannot find a pyroclasm with 2 Preordains. He over commits, with a bunch of dorks I play Wurmcoil to stop the bleeding and he plays smoldering spires so wurmy cannot block and I die to a bunch of weenies.
Match Results 0-2
Round 4 WW Quest
Game 1 He plays an early quest, and three dudes, that I pyroclasm away. Then I ramp to Wurmcoil + Force that takes him down to 2. He manages to get armor on the board, but Wurm tokens get there for the win.
SB Out-2 Reigns and Ingenuity, IN-Flame Slash and 2 Roils
Game 2 he mulls to 6 and I kill everything in site with point removal and pyroclasms. I stick a Mindsculptor and Wurmcoil backed up with Force.
Match Results 2-0
The deck did perform solid, I believe in the aggro match up, and I don't think I was aggressive enough to mulligan vs. the Vampires list, which in retrospect I should have mulled to make sure I had point removal or a clasm. So the loss is all on me. Volition Reigns again is amazing in the control mirror and I had a ton of fun. I played to a horrible 3-4 record at states and didn't have nearly the amount of fun I had playing U/R.
Sorry if the report was short and/or missing details I usually don't do reports but I had a ton of fun with the deck!
2 Khalni Garden
2 Halimar Depths
4 Mountain
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Island
5 Forest
2 Raging Ravine
1 Mystifying Maze
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Primeval Titan
Spells (25)
4 Cultivate
4 Explore
4 Preordain
3 Destructive Force
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
2 Growth Spasm
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Autumn's Veil
2 Volition Reins
3 Flashfreeze
2 Naturalize
4 Pyroclasm
You can take their best creature after it dies from Destructive Force, and you're instantly in a great position. What do you guys think?
the best play... in my opinion.
Turn 1 - Island, Preordain
Turn 2 - Forest, Explore, Island, Preordain
Turn 3 - Rootbound Crag, Garruk, Untap two lands, Chalice for one.
Turn 4 - Mountain, Frost Titan, Untap Two lands, mana open for Mana leak
Turn 5 - Destructive force, (Or Jace 2.0 if you don't have a force to dig).
^That's my best play right there.
Blood's Trading Stall
Sales
:symu::symw:U/W Control - Watch Yo Back!:symw::symu:
18-4-1 [6 tournaments]
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
READ THE OP!
:mad::mad::mad:
Yeah, and that happens how often without any disruption at all? You have 9 cards in the first three turns to make that work, so yeah. I have my 2 Vats to smooth out the deck when I don't get the God-draw like you do.
Mimic Vat is strong with this deck but not to steal their creatures after you play Destructive Force. That happens and it can be a strong play, but it's the flexibility of the Vat that makes it so good.
For me it is a 3 mana insurance policy. Nobody kills your Titan when you have a Vat in play and I am pretty sure that we all know how brutal an unchecked Titan (any of them) can be. When a card keeps people from killing your main win condition that seems good.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
It turns off their removal as well. I have never lost with a Mimic Vat and a Frost Titan on the board.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
Yea... i probably should have said that is probably the best play with ultimate card draws. but I like this deck because it's versatile and once you get that destructive force out, it totally destroys opponents.
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:symu::symw:U/W Control - Watch Yo Back!:symw::symu:
18-4-1 [6 tournaments]
Mimic Vat just feels win-more. We can only take advantage of it if we have our own Titan and when we don't have a Titan it's a blank.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Blood's Trading Stall
Sales
:symu::symw:U/W Control - Watch Yo Back!:symw::symu:
18-4-1 [6 tournaments]
I would agree here as well, in the early turns I am looking to either hold Mana Leak mana or ramp, in the mid game I want to be dropping Titans and setting up Destructive Force.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor