Yeah, and when we get it, the very same people who wanted it will be complaining that it's weak or it doesn't fit the character at all. That's a general problem, whenever Wizards give a fan-favorite character a card, some people hate it because it's just not what they expected.
I don't agree: the general problem is that Wizards didn't make fan-favorite cards when they had the chance or made fan favorite cards that just sucked and had nothing do with what that particular character did in the storyline. Legendary creature cards for example are lately being done quite well by Wizards (see TS block) so I'd love to see Gix, Yawgmoth Demon or something along those lines.
Myself? Come on, don't you remember Time Spiral block? Wizards printed a lot of old fan-favorite characters there, and no matter how cool the card was, someone was complaining. They didn't like Teferi and Jaya because they were not planeswalkers. They didn't like lord Ith because they said he should have been white-black. They didn't like Jhoira because they said she should have been an artificer. And I'm telling you, if they printed a character as famous as Gix, someone would be complaining again.
Yeah but most of those cards that got reprinted were very good flavor-wise and you're always going to get naysayers... Teferi and Jaya were printed as Legendary creatures (before they activated the spark)...so the people who said they weren't planeswalkers...:rolleyes:
Thus one can surmise that if they make a Karn, Planeswalker card, he will be five color, and one of his minus abilities would be: Exile Target Permanent.
I would hope not. I'd prefer a slight correction: something like (-3) Exile Target Non-Planeswalker Permanent. Karn's not all-powerful...he can't just take down all other planeswalkers like that, esp Bolas and such.
I haven't read the novels at all, but from what i learned, he was basically created by Urza through genetic manipulation over centuries. How'd you feel when you learned that the fate of Dominaria would somehow rest on your shoulders and you had your entire life set for that goal? Also, he lost Hanna, saw her die to that disease, had to fight Urza in a deathmatch or something, and ultimately sacrificed himself for the plane, along with some other events i can't really recall from the article i read (yeah it was on wikipedia and i was bored ).
He could have been a punk, but i am darn sure that pretty much redeemed himself with that one.
Oh God, Yawgmoth again? Why can't you people just accept he's dead and move on?
The quotes about "ordering the world" etc. are not Tezzeret's words, but Bolas's. They wouldn't even make any sense if they belonged to Tezz.
Tezzeret might find Mirrodin and try to master it, but I don't see why he'd need Yawgmoth to do that...
Didn't he already have ties to mirrodin, with his Fortress where Jace and Lily attacked? since it was an all metal plane and all, his affinity for Etherium was even stronger or something like that, it's been awhile since i read AoA, but it seemed apparent that his fortress of "Steel" in which he was attacked before having his mind blown up by Jace and being utterly destroyed by the rat-men of Kamigawa.
It seems that it's still there, Now onto a completely different idea.
I do Really like the Yawgmoth's "essence" or the Weaver King's "clutch" on Tezzeret's Mind, controlling or corrupting him to do their bidding with New Phyrexia amongst other evil that it could be, maybe even Volrath.
Gix seems plausible, however i believe he was killed. so i wouldn't know (i also haven't read those novels, i started following them closely about Ravnica) (i'm aware i need to get them too, just to tie the stories together)
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Ravarshi Kashaku, Ancient Dragon of the Darkened Realms;
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Also didnt read the whole thread, but, is it possible that these names are for multiplayer Duel Decks? You know, since they're releasing Planechase, they might want to push multiplayer for once...?
Didn't he already have ties to mirrodin, with his Fortress where Jace and Lily attacked? since it was an all metal plane and all, his affinity for Etherium was even stronger or something like that, it's been awhile since i read AoA, but it seemed apparent that his fortress of "Steel" in which he was attacked before having his mind blown up by Jace and being utterly destroyed by the rat-men of Kamigawa.
It seems that it's still there, Now onto a completely different idea.
I do Really like the Yawgmoth's "essence" or the Weaver King's "clutch" on Tezzeret's Mind, controlling or corrupting him to do their bidding with New Phyrexia amongst other evil that it could be, maybe even Volrath.
Gix seems plausible, however i believe he was killed. so i wouldn't know (i also haven't read those novels, i started following them closely about Ravnica) (i'm aware i need to get them too, just to tie the stories together)
Sorry to dissapoint you. But Volrath is dead, he was killed quite efficiently by Crovax.
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Are you kidding? Karn is hands down the most powerful planeswalker (unless the Rift had taken his power away from him). Personally I believe he's much stronger than the famous Nicol bolas. Bolas is 'just' and elder dragon planeswalker while Karn is the incarnation of Urza's Legacy who probably has two Sparks. Karn's card shouldn't be any less powerful than Bolas's IMO.
My memory of TS deceives me. I don't know what the heck happened to Karn (did he just *poof* or time travel? I really don't know) but I was under the impression that if the Rift did indeed take his power away, he is definitely not the most powerful walker. I took part in a major discussion about the strongest Planeswalkers a while back and the general consensus was that you have Urza and you have Bolas (let's not get into the Commodore Guff thing). The thing is, Karn, Silver Golem =/= Karn, Legacy Weapon =/= Karn Planeswalker and Karn Planeswalker certainly =/= Urza Planeswalker. Urza > Karn (obviously). At the height of Karn's Planeswalker powers, hands down he is NOT stronger than Nicol Bolas, that's for sure. However, Bolas has shown himself to be weak and outwitted at times by even non-Planeswalkers and at his presently reduced state (Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker), you can genuinely argue that Karn is the stronger of the two.
i thought at the end of the mirrodin books that the plane was starting to become non-metallic and more natural. im sure im wrong about that.
and didnt Karona see an almost dead Yawgmoth on Pyrexia? (or was that one of the alt timelines that was shown in TS?)
maybe this could be a possibility......whatever happens w the New Mirrodin (whether Karn is destroyed/sacrificed/evolved) maybe somehow the essence of Urza and Mishra from the powerstones in Karn's eyes is brought back to life to combat this New Phyrexia race. this could be a way that both brothers can make up for their past mistakes. i dunno, maybe im just too much a fan of the old Urza books, lol
Karn did create a self sustainable, balanced plane by himself.
Which is really really hard to do as it means that the walker in question is not only powerful enough to create a plane (which neo-walkers are not, nor were many oldwalkers) but that they have to expend equal (and huge) amounts of mana of each color in constructing the plane.
Many walkers can only use 1 or 2 colors of magic at all. Fewer are proficient in several colors or capable of using all 5. Very few have ever been capable of channeling sufficient amounts of mana of each color to create a balanced plane.
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Karn did create a self sustainable, balanced plane by himself. I'd say that put him above Bolas in terms of pure power. Not to mention that even if Legacy and both of his sparks were not fully functional (and we can pretty surely say they were) they should beat one spark, even as old as Bolas'.
Bolas had no reason to create his own plane, so knowing his power-level, it is pretty hard to call him weaker just because he didn't do so. Also, Serra created her own plane, and she's nowhere in this discussion. A planeswalker who loved the form of the dragon made Phyrexia, which Yawgmoth later took over--I'm not saying that plane creation is easy or even common, but just because Bolas doesn't have his own doesn't really detract from his power. I'm inclined to believe that he didn't create a plane, not that he can't. It seems like a time consuming process, really...the dragon-dude who made Phyrexia died afterwards---Bolas is much more content letting Lord Overdark, Tetsuo Umezawa, and other lackeys secure his power on planes like they did in Madara, Dominaria.
Also, Glacian's spark, which is contained within the Mightstone and Weakstone is in Karn now but they used to be Urza's eyes. Removing the stones incapacitated Urza completely (look at what Radiant did). I'm not saying that having the stones can be inhibiting to Karn, but just pointing out that having the stones doesn't necessarily make him stronger. They could possibly supply him with more knowledge though this may have been true for Urza as well.
I am personally of the view that Bolas is stronger than Karn but that's really pre-mending for me. On the flip side,Karn is the Legacy Weapon and a planeswalker with the Urza's and Glacian's sparks as well as Urza's and Gerrad's essences. So, yeah, I guess I can see where you're coming from.
Additionally, things are even more messed up because this is post-mending. Both Bolas and Karn are crapwalkers, not Planeswalkers anymore so it makes the debate more interesting. Bolas was used to being manipulative and using his vast knowledge to his advantage, but now he doesn't have the sheer Planeswalker power to back it up. Karn on the other hand used to be a silver golem and has the power of the Legacy Weapon and two spark's aiding him.
Just pointing out the obvious here (as far as I am concerened Karn and Nicol are about equals when it comes to power, this has more to do with the age difference and knowledge that the Elder Dragon possesses than anything else though).
But, Nicol Bolas *has* created a balanced, self-sustaining plane: The Meditation Realm.
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I am not sure that there is really that much of a difference actually. I remember reading somewhere that the actual physical size of the planes varies from the minuscule to large enough to contain multiple star systems.
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I think that the meditation plane actually counts as a full scale plane. It is very small, but given that it is apparently large enough to have different "regions" as shown in Planechase I think it is more than a pocket plane.
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"But then are we most in order when we are most out of order."-Jack Cade
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
I think that the meditation plane actually counts as a full scale plane. It is very small, but given that it is apparently large enough to have different "regions" as shown in Planechase I think it is more than a pocket plane.
Agreed, and since it has been around for tens of thousands of years with no noticable signs of falling apart, it is without any reasonable doubt mana balanced. Just like Mirrodin.
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Personally I hope that Yawgie remains dead and buried
Unfortunately, Yawgmoth himself wasn't completely destroyed at the end of the Invasion cycle. In one of the later books, I forget which one it is, Karona starts looking for beings as powerful as herself and so she creates a five colored window thing in front of her and in it is a being that is the most powerful representative of their respective color. In them are planeswalkers, except for the black one, which just show's a swamp. When she turns to that one, there is a dis-embodied voice that talks to her, asking her to return it to life and power so that both of them can take over Dominaria and the Multiverse together. I forget which said it, but the name Yawgmoth was used during that little exchange.
Unfortunately, Yawgmoth himself wasn't completely destroyed at the end of the Invasion cycle. In one of the later books, I forget which one it is, Karona starts looking for beings as powerful as herself and so she creates a five colored window thing in front of her and in it is a being that is the most powerful representative of their respective color. In them are planeswalkers, except for the black one, which just show's a swamp. When she turns to that one, there is a dis-embodied voice that talks to her, asking her to return it to life and power so that both of them can take over Dominaria and the Multiverse together. I forget which said it, but the name Yawgmoth was used during that little exchange.
Exactly and people are like Yawgmoth dead dead dead. I don't think he is dead that he is merely floating waiting for someone to resurrect him. Bolas afraid of a resurgent Phyrexia that could restore possibly the most feared entity in multiuniverse...Room for Yawgmoth return but lead creative team I forgot his name won't all for his return but Yawgmoth not COMPLETELY dead
I'd like to introduce you to someone. His name is Wall of Omens. Say hi, Wall of Omens!
So, Wall of Omens, how do you think you're going to affect standard? What's that, you say? You're going to slot right into an already-established UW Control archetype, and improve the deck's matchup against Jund significantly? Wow, bold words there Wall of Omens.
Unfortunately, Yawgmoth himself wasn't completely destroyed at the end of the Invasion cycle. In one of the later books, I forget which one it is, Karona starts looking for beings as powerful as herself and so she creates a five colored window thing in front of her and in it is a being that is the most powerful representative of their respective color. In them are planeswalkers, except for the black one, which just show's a swamp. When she turns to that one, there is a dis-embodied voice that talks to her, asking her to return it to life and power so that both of them can take over Dominaria and the Multiverse together. I forget which said it, but the name Yawgmoth was used during that little exchange.
The book in question was Scourge and most people on this site believe Karona, who was a little crazy, was just having another vision. As proof, the blue "avatar" Karona spoke with was Teferi, but when Teferi was confronted with Karona's visit in a another book, Time Spirial, Teferi claims that he has no recollection of any visit with the crazy false god.
From this one can conclude two things: A) King, the author of Scourge, meant for Karona's audiences to be nothing but mere visions. Or B) The whole thing was rewritten later because Karona's visions were too much for the storyline to handle. Either way, Scourge is not proof of Yawgmoth's return.
Unfortunately, Yawgmoth himself wasn't completely destroyed at the end of the Invasion cycle. In one of the later books, I forget which one it is, Karona starts looking for beings as powerful as herself and so she creates a five colored window thing in front of her and in it is a being that is the most powerful representative of their respective color. In them are planeswalkers, except for the black one, which just show's a swamp. When she turns to that one, there is a dis-embodied voice that talks to her, asking her to return it to life and power so that both of them can take over Dominaria and the Multiverse together. I forget which said it, but the name Yawgmoth was used during that little exchange.
The book in question is Scourge. The section in question is full of quite a few problematic and inaccurate story elements, including Serra being alive. J. Robert King inserted all those elements himself without consulting with the Creative team and none of them reflected the intentions of the people who actually design Magic's storyline from set to set. In the time since that novel's been published, the Creative team has worked hard to make it clear that those elements of the Scourge novel were just an illusion (read: retcon them out of existence) through means like the card Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (which leaks black mana because of the power of Yawgmoth's corpse), the portion of the Time Spiral block novels where Teferi says he never spoke to Karona, etc.
Basically, that bit with Yawgmoth isn't true and the people currently in charge of Magic's storyline are extremely dedicated to a policy of keeping characters who died "meaningful deaths" dead, with Yawgmoth and Urza quite literally at the top of the list.
Yes, Yawgmoth is alive by some infallibly convoluted logic, he finds a Mirrodin ( a plane of all metal) and corrupts it into the new Phyrexia.
Karn gets a PW card as does Yawgmoth (I did say convoluted logic damn you!) and they get to duke it out. Karn loses and thus Yawg claims Mirrodin as his own turning it into a Phyrexian paradise.
Actually, it doesn't require any infallibly convoluted logic. Karn went back in time to close the rift over Tolaria and encountered something Really Bad. Of course, Yawgmoth still lived at that time and Karn was disrupting the flow of time, so it is not much of a stretch to say that Karn changed time and Yawgmoth lived and that Karn somehow was keeping him trapped on Mirrordin.
And now we know it's not the return of Memnarch. The flavor text on the 1/1 artifact creature for 0 would tend to infer that Memnarch has not returned.
It's seems more and more IMHO that Yawgmoth makes more sense as the evil villain that Karn is dealing with.
Yawgmoth: A magic the gathering character that isn't necessarily dead.
Proof: Karona
It is odd that players are able to accept every fantasy aspect of magic and at the same time staunchly believe that Yawgmoth is not only dead, but remaining that way forever
Yawgmoth: A magic the gathering character that isn't necessarily dead.
Proof: Karona
It is odd that players are able to accept every fantasy aspect of magic and at the same time staunchly believe that Yawgmoth is not only dead, but remaining that way forever
Please use all existing information before making such statements.
Death means nothing to the Ineffable. He's dead, but alive at the same time. He's beyond everything. Phyrexia or the Ineffable, it's all the same. ALL WILL BE ONE.
Some players just wont be happy until they do resurrect Yawgmoth. But it's unclear whether that really would accomplish anything for the meaningful storyline which outweighs the incredible cheapness of the gimmick.
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I don't agree: the general problem is that Wizards didn't make fan-favorite cards when they had the chance or made fan favorite cards that just sucked and had nothing do with what that particular character did in the storyline. Legendary creature cards for example are lately being done quite well by Wizards (see TS block) so I'd love to see Gix, Yawgmoth Demon or something along those lines.
Yeah but most of those cards that got reprinted were very good flavor-wise and you're always going to get naysayers... Teferi and Jaya were printed as Legendary creatures (before they activated the spark)...so the people who said they weren't planeswalkers...:rolleyes:
I would hope not. I'd prefer a slight correction: something like (-3) Exile Target Non-Planeswalker Permanent. Karn's not all-powerful...he can't just take down all other planeswalkers like that, esp Bolas and such.
This.
On a different note: No need for a soul does not equate the absence of one. ^^
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Didn't he already have ties to mirrodin, with his Fortress where Jace and Lily attacked? since it was an all metal plane and all, his affinity for Etherium was even stronger or something like that, it's been awhile since i read AoA, but it seemed apparent that his fortress of "Steel" in which he was attacked before having his mind blown up by Jace and being utterly destroyed by the rat-men of Kamigawa.
It seems that it's still there, Now onto a completely different idea.
I do Really like the Yawgmoth's "essence" or the Weaver King's "clutch" on Tezzeret's Mind, controlling or corrupting him to do their bidding with New Phyrexia amongst other evil that it could be, maybe even Volrath.
Gix seems plausible, however i believe he was killed. so i wouldn't know (i also haven't read those novels, i started following them closely about Ravnica) (i'm aware i need to get them too, just to tie the stories together)
The Merciless Lord of Torture, Permanently Bound To: ">[THE PACK] 11/5/63 - 11/25/09 Goodbye mom, i'll always love you...
Tibalt & His Devils vs. Avacyn's Inquisitors
My EDH decklists
Sorry to dissapoint you. But Volrath is dead, he was killed quite efficiently by Crovax.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Seconded. That would be a great idea.
Ah. Gotcha.
My memory of TS deceives me. I don't know what the heck happened to Karn (did he just *poof* or time travel? I really don't know) but I was under the impression that if the Rift did indeed take his power away, he is definitely not the most powerful walker. I took part in a major discussion about the strongest Planeswalkers a while back and the general consensus was that you have Urza and you have Bolas (let's not get into the Commodore Guff thing). The thing is, Karn, Silver Golem =/= Karn, Legacy Weapon =/= Karn Planeswalker and Karn Planeswalker certainly =/= Urza Planeswalker. Urza > Karn (obviously). At the height of Karn's Planeswalker powers, hands down he is NOT stronger than Nicol Bolas, that's for sure. However, Bolas has shown himself to be weak and outwitted at times by even non-Planeswalkers and at his presently reduced state (Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker), you can genuinely argue that Karn is the stronger of the two.
As for me...I'll cross my fingers for Parcher!
and didnt Karona see an almost dead Yawgmoth on Pyrexia? (or was that one of the alt timelines that was shown in TS?)
maybe this could be a possibility......whatever happens w the New Mirrodin (whether Karn is destroyed/sacrificed/evolved) maybe somehow the essence of Urza and Mishra from the powerstones in Karn's eyes is brought back to life to combat this New Phyrexia race. this could be a way that both brothers can make up for their past mistakes. i dunno, maybe im just too much a fan of the old Urza books, lol
Which is really really hard to do as it means that the walker in question is not only powerful enough to create a plane (which neo-walkers are not, nor were many oldwalkers) but that they have to expend equal (and huge) amounts of mana of each color in constructing the plane.
Many walkers can only use 1 or 2 colors of magic at all. Fewer are proficient in several colors or capable of using all 5. Very few have ever been capable of channeling sufficient amounts of mana of each color to create a balanced plane.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Bolas had no reason to create his own plane, so knowing his power-level, it is pretty hard to call him weaker just because he didn't do so. Also, Serra created her own plane, and she's nowhere in this discussion. A planeswalker who loved the form of the dragon made Phyrexia, which Yawgmoth later took over--I'm not saying that plane creation is easy or even common, but just because Bolas doesn't have his own doesn't really detract from his power. I'm inclined to believe that he didn't create a plane, not that he can't. It seems like a time consuming process, really...the dragon-dude who made Phyrexia died afterwards---Bolas is much more content letting Lord Overdark, Tetsuo Umezawa, and other lackeys secure his power on planes like they did in Madara, Dominaria.
Also, Glacian's spark, which is contained within the Mightstone and Weakstone is in Karn now but they used to be Urza's eyes. Removing the stones incapacitated Urza completely (look at what Radiant did). I'm not saying that having the stones can be inhibiting to Karn, but just pointing out that having the stones doesn't necessarily make him stronger. They could possibly supply him with more knowledge though this may have been true for Urza as well.
I am personally of the view that Bolas is stronger than Karn but that's really pre-mending for me. On the flip side,Karn is the Legacy Weapon and a planeswalker with the Urza's and Glacian's sparks as well as Urza's and Gerrad's essences. So, yeah, I guess I can see where you're coming from.
Additionally, things are even more messed up because this is post-mending. Both Bolas and Karn are crapwalkers, not Planeswalkers anymore so it makes the debate more interesting. Bolas was used to being manipulative and using his vast knowledge to his advantage, but now he doesn't have the sheer Planeswalker power to back it up. Karn on the other hand used to be a silver golem and has the power of the Legacy Weapon and two spark's aiding him.
But, Nicol Bolas *has* created a balanced, self-sustaining plane: The Meditation Realm.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
I am not sure that there is really that much of a difference actually. I remember reading somewhere that the actual physical size of the planes varies from the minuscule to large enough to contain multiple star systems.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
"That is not dead which can eternal lie, And with strange aeons even death may die."
- H.P. Lovecraft
Agreed, and since it has been around for tens of thousands of years with no noticable signs of falling apart, it is without any reasonable doubt mana balanced. Just like Mirrodin.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Unfortunately, Yawgmoth himself wasn't completely destroyed at the end of the Invasion cycle. In one of the later books, I forget which one it is, Karona starts looking for beings as powerful as herself and so she creates a five colored window thing in front of her and in it is a being that is the most powerful representative of their respective color. In them are planeswalkers, except for the black one, which just show's a swamp. When she turns to that one, there is a dis-embodied voice that talks to her, asking her to return it to life and power so that both of them can take over Dominaria and the Multiverse together. I forget which said it, but the name Yawgmoth was used during that little exchange.
Exactly and people are like Yawgmoth dead dead dead. I don't think he is dead that he is merely floating waiting for someone to resurrect him. Bolas afraid of a resurgent Phyrexia that could restore possibly the most feared entity in multiuniverse...Room for Yawgmoth return but lead creative team I forgot his name won't all for his return but Yawgmoth not COMPLETELY dead
The book in question was Scourge and most people on this site believe Karona, who was a little crazy, was just having another vision. As proof, the blue "avatar" Karona spoke with was Teferi, but when Teferi was confronted with Karona's visit in a another book, Time Spirial, Teferi claims that he has no recollection of any visit with the crazy false god.
From this one can conclude two things: A) King, the author of Scourge, meant for Karona's audiences to be nothing but mere visions. Or B) The whole thing was rewritten later because Karona's visions were too much for the storyline to handle. Either way, Scourge is not proof of Yawgmoth's return.
The book in question is Scourge. The section in question is full of quite a few problematic and inaccurate story elements, including Serra being alive. J. Robert King inserted all those elements himself without consulting with the Creative team and none of them reflected the intentions of the people who actually design Magic's storyline from set to set. In the time since that novel's been published, the Creative team has worked hard to make it clear that those elements of the Scourge novel were just an illusion (read: retcon them out of existence) through means like the card Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (which leaks black mana because of the power of Yawgmoth's corpse), the portion of the Time Spiral block novels where Teferi says he never spoke to Karona, etc.
Basically, that bit with Yawgmoth isn't true and the people currently in charge of Magic's storyline are extremely dedicated to a policy of keeping characters who died "meaningful deaths" dead, with Yawgmoth and Urza quite literally at the top of the list.
Actually, it doesn't require any infallibly convoluted logic. Karn went back in time to close the rift over Tolaria and encountered something Really Bad. Of course, Yawgmoth still lived at that time and Karn was disrupting the flow of time, so it is not much of a stretch to say that Karn changed time and Yawgmoth lived and that Karn somehow was keeping him trapped on Mirrordin.
And now we know it's not the return of Memnarch. The flavor text on the 1/1 artifact creature for 0 would tend to infer that Memnarch has not returned.
It's seems more and more IMHO that Yawgmoth makes more sense as the evil villain that Karn is dealing with.
Doublepost merged and infracted.
Proof: Karona
It is odd that players are able to accept every fantasy aspect of magic and at the same time staunchly believe that Yawgmoth is not only dead, but remaining that way forever
Please use all existing information before making such statements.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=270209
Karona's visions are considered vision/hallucination, etc. Not a real thing, as much as real goes in this sense.
And like it or not, there a ARE some rules for ressurecting characters, that Wizards still obey. Yawgmoth is dead, period.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Proof : Karona.
Think about Lord Voldemort too! Or maybe not, but still.
Proof: Karona
Commander:
R Daretti, Scrap Savant
BR Olivia Voldaren
BRG Shattergang Brothers
GUR Riku of Two Reflections
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftain