19 lands is definitely not enough. You're still going to be casting things even with Aether Vial, and getting stuck at 1 land is basically death for you.
Second of all, Merrow Harbinger really has nothing to tutor for, especially for 4 mana, so I would suggest taking that out for some more lands.
Do you think dropping stonybrook banneret was smart???? It just screwed with the vials so much what do you think?????
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Live in Northern AZ? Lets play some Legacy! Catch me on MODO!
I don't have a tribal deck in my casual arsenal yet and coincidentally, I don't have a milling deck either so U/W Millfolk caught my eyes. I took a look at the primer and did some modifications here and there.
I don't have a playset of Aether Vials nor Force of Wills so those are out of the picture. Should I consider other counterspells, such as Daze, instead of Sage's Dousing?
If there are other modifications I should take into account, feel free to help out. Thanks (:
Thanks for your input! While I don't quite like the list (mainly from the lack of Grimoire Thief and white spot removal), I did realize that I needed something like Ponder and a counter that cost less. Here's my current list that I tweaked not too long ago:
The Rune Snags seem to be working out. Negate may seem better when I have spot removal, but the Snag feels more versatile; plus, being able to counter some creatures with ETB effects can be helpful, since Sage's Dousing was able to do that in my previous build. The Intruder/Commerce combo is pretty nifty and it does speed up the deck, but I've been able to ride on the back of Commerce alongside my spot removals so far. I'll see if I can somehow fit it in the future, though. Thanks again!
Nah, he's tight. I'd take out Fallowsage, Thaumaturgist or Lullmage. The first two are underwhelming and the third is kinda win-more compared to Lord or Reejery imo.
Hey, I'm working on a merfolk deck and I feel it's pretty solid, but I also feel it's pretty vulnerable. any suggestions on making it better? Here are the cards:
Thirty lands is way way too much, usually you want 22 to 24 for a deck like this. I'd recommend as a cheap mana base:
10x Island
10x Plains
4x Evolving Wilds
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"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
--------------------------------------
My Merfolk deck relies heavily on control, and, since I have run into a lot of mill decks, I planted a few of these nuggets, too: Quest for Ancient Secrets; Reminisce.
Those two cards give me three things: 1) they defend against mill decks, which just about everyone I know has at least one, and 2) they let me reincarnate my creatures by having no real graveyard, just a bed ( ), and 3) gives me deck size advantage in long-drawn out games where lesser decks would deck out.
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Currently playing:
Standard: WBRG Aggro-Reanimator Humans GRBW
Modern: UR Twinning RU G Venus Fly Trap G U Artifacts Aggro U
Changes I Would Make:
Mkae Coralhelm a 4 of.
I think you have to many counters and not enough threats. I would add stuff like Merrow Reejerey and Merfolk Soverign.
I'd cut some spells for things like Propaganda.
guile doesn't need to be a 4 of here, 2 or 3 should be plenty. Also cutting about 8 counterspells would be an idea. counterspell and leak can stay, but one of thwart, negate and psychic barrier should go, depending on your meta.
I run quicksilver fountain in my controlish merfolk deck. Really messes with any non mono blue. I also run with Lord of atlantis to take advantage, but that might be to creature focused for this deck. p.s. Its always fun to let them destroy the fountain and then remind them that the lands stay islands even after killing the artifact
Not sure if this is the direction you want to go in, but Mono-U Fish is a very viable and competitive Legacy deck (unless things have changed since I last checked). The Fish primer can be found here.
What does anyone think of Lullmage Mentor?
On paper it seems cool, but it is really slow cause to safely cast it I would need to have
5 mana and by that time, I would usually do 1 counter per turn, thus getting 1 1/1 each turn.
And I guess, I should invest in Coralhelm, but they are kinda expensive.
In a bona fide Merfolk deck, he's..ok. But you're not really running that many Merfolk here. He makes no sense to me at all with your posted list.
Deserts are ok, but with the Halimars also in the mix, you're going to find it tough to reliably hit :symu::symu: you need for your counterspells. If I were to pick one or the other, I'd definitely take the Halimars in a control deck.
Honestly, I'd step back and decide on whether you want this to be an actual 'Merfolk' deck or whether you just want a decent control deck. That's what your current decklist is skewed toward.
No matter what you do, I'll point you at Rhystic Study for some serious card draw and/or control boost. Either way, you're going to benefit from this card being in play. If you're able, let the Studay 'draw triggers' go off and THEN counter their stuff. That way, you're either drawing a free card or your just making it easier to counter their spells (if you're holding Mana Leak for instance.)
Only my second post -- so if I break any forum customs or unspoken protocols, I apologize in advance.
A few thoughts about the deck -- specifically what I might do with it if I were playing it (which isn't the same as the best thing to do, of course):
* I prefer Diplomatic Immunity to Alexi's Cloak, generally speaking. Your preference might vary, though -- it seems like you have enough instant-counterspells to go around, though, so I'd think the perseverance of DI would be a good choice if you actually care about the Shrouding and aren't just using it as a counterspell (in which case Intervene would be better).
* I might also consider Dream Cache instead of Fact or Fiction. It's a smaller gain, true. But it allows you to tuck lands on the bottom if need be, and nothing gets buried. It's also a bit cheaper, leaving more land up for counterspells.
* I might also add in a Soothsaying. Knowing you have 5 lands in a row coming (from your Halimar Depths) is great -- but being able to do something about it is better!
* I agree with Rysorz that there's a little too much CS. if the timing goes wrong and your opponent manages to get something down, a little bounce would go a long way. Unsummon is cheap -- both mana-wise and cash-wise. Repulse would probably be my choice, though.
* I might run 4 of the Enclave Cryptologist just to make sure he got out early and could be leveled up as quickly as possible. Maybe 4 Enclave Cryptologist and 2 Guile, instead of the other way around?
I like the deck, overall. I actually think this would be a blast to play in a multiplayer game. Morphling is probably right that specializing one way or the other is a more effective way to go, but this looks like fun.
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Current Favorite Decks: Creatureless Bolas Control with Lethal Vapors, Green Enchantress/Kavu Lair card draw, and Shriekmaw/Mulldrifter/Dignitary Flicker.
On Lullmage Mentor: There is actually a really janky but interesting combo you can do here with Kira, Great Glass-Spinner. You'd have to fundamentally change the deck around, but I think it's quite cool. Since Kira allows you to counter your own spells, you can try mass-targeting with both Kira, Great Glass-Spinner and Lullmage Mentor out. For example, you use Defy Gravity on one of your creatures, it gets countered, creating a token. You flash it back, targeting a previously untargeted creature, it gets countered again, creating another token. So that's 2 tokens for UU, add in something like Quiet Speculation and you can make 3 tokens, quickly stacking up the tokens to get 7 for Lullmage Mentor.
Now speaking on a more down-to-earth basis, you can try to double your gains via Lullmage Mentor by having more than 1 of them out, via something like Phyrexian Metamorph, Followed Footsteps, Soul Foundry, etc. This gives you 2 Merfolk, then 2 more Merfolk per-spell countered. It should add up quite fast. Again, you'd have to change the deck around to be more accomodating.
There is quite a bit of improvement to be made for your deck. Seahunter is no good in here unless you're going to include the higher CMC Merfolk like Wanderwine Prophets. Even then it's still a gimmick. It's not even a Merfolk itself which hurts even more, and the 4-mana to play it, w/ the 3-mana to activate means it's just not worth the cost. You're going to fetch very low-costed creatures here, meaning you're better off with a card-advantage enabler like Tidal Courier.
The counterspells you're running are very awkward as well. Why Dispel? You already have Sygg, River's Guide and Kira, Great Glass-Spinner from Instant-removal, so it's really not worth running such a narrow hoser. You'd be better off which something like Daze or Force Spike.
Reprisal is also a very weak removal spell, especially considering for 1 more mana you can get Retribution of the Meek to sweep everything.
Also, if you plan on using Tideshaper Mystic and Reef Shaman solely for mana-fixing, please don't. That's a terrible waste of your mana and deck slots. Just get a better manabase or use the strategies in the deck I posted above. My deck is not that powerful of a deck - I don't see why your friends would ban it.
I'm not sure how good Standstill is in a deck without Aether Vial or a lot of manlands, to be honest. You don't have any way of advancing your board position under a Standstill, so you can only cast it when you already have an advantage combat-wise and hope your opponent does not change that in response to you casting the enchantment. I think Ancestral Vision is better for this deck - less mana, guaranteed cards. You can cut the 2 Preordains to make space for a playset of these.
Instead of Gitaxian Probe I would suggest 2-3 Daze. Works nicely in combination with Cursecatcher and makes your Strip Mine more painful. Maybe instead of Halimar Depths you might want to include a couple Tectonic Edges too? I also don't know how often you will have the 2 mana open to cast Counterspell, perhaps cut some of those and add Spell Snares?
I suggest trying to fit in a second Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, she is really nuts against many decks that are relying on removal/burn to handle your fish. Not a fan of Diminish, how about Dismember instead? The 4 life is a bit painful, but it's a lot more versatile than Diminish.
Thanks Maelkyral!
I really like your suggestions, i bought 2x Ancestral Vision right away.
I was going to add a couple of Braingeyser to the deck, but this is way easier to play since it is 1 Blue only. The delay is Ok for a three card draw, and it must be a pain in the ass for discard decks. Hehe.
I will try to get a few Daze's, but i'm gona have to wait a bit, i purchased too many cards already. :-P
I can add Mana Leak instead of Diminish meanwhile, what do you think?
Thanks!!!
Yes, Visions is also good against discard. Mana Leak is a good card, no doubt, but whether it works in your deck has to do with how often you can leave 2 mana open. My concern is that you would only have the islands to do this later in the game, when Mana Leak is itself not as strong.
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Do you think dropping stonybrook banneret was smart???? It just screwed with the vials so much what do you think?????
Live in Northern AZ? Lets play some Legacy! Catch me on MODO!
Awesome sig by the one and only DarkNightCavalier from Heroes of the Plane Studios
You don't really need the banneret in this case. Most of your cards cost UU, or UW, which means that banneret isn't affected.
It doesn't really conflict with the vials, it's just not too useful here.
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
I would definitely get Merrow Commerce in there. Makes it all worth it.
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Take out Rootwater Thief?
EDH
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion
4x Mothdust Changeling
4x Merrow Reejerey
3x Stonybrook Banneret
3x Drowner of Secrets
3x Stonybrook Schoolmaster
3x Judge of Currents
4x Ponder
4x Negate
3x Summon The School
3x Intruder Alarm
2x Merrow Commerce
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Wanderwine Hub
8x Island
8x Plains
Thanks for your input! While I don't quite like the list (mainly from the lack of Grimoire Thief and white spot removal), I did realize that I needed something like Ponder and a counter that cost less. Here's my current list that I tweaked not too long ago:
3x Plains
4x Adarkar Wastes
4x Wanderwine Hub
4x Mothdust Changeling
4x Grimoire Thief
4x Merrow Reejerey
4x Drowner of Secrets
4x Stonybrook Schoolmaster
3x Judge of Currents
4x Rune Snag
3x Merrow Commerce
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Oblivion Ring
The Rune Snags seem to be working out. Negate may seem better when I have spot removal, but the Snag feels more versatile; plus, being able to counter some creatures with ETB effects can be helpful, since Sage's Dousing was able to do that in my previous build. The Intruder/Commerce combo is pretty nifty and it does speed up the deck, but I've been able to ride on the back of Commerce alongside my spot removals so far. I'll see if I can somehow fit it in the future, though. Thanks again!
BR Sarkhan Midrange
BG Infect
UW Millfolk
UR Draco Explosion
WGR Natural Emergence
Janky Fun
GW Tribal Unicorns
Nah, he's tight. I'd take out Fallowsage, Thaumaturgist or Lullmage. The first two are underwhelming and the third is kinda win-more compared to Lord or Reejery imo.
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4 Lord of atlantis
4 Silvergill Douser
4 rootwater theif
4 fallowsage
4 Merfolk Thaumaturgist
4 Opposition
3 quiclsilver fountain
4 ponder
3 merrow commerce
Is that better?? Or am I just in need of starting over??
EDH
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion
4 Drowner of Secrets
4 Stonybrook Schoolmaster
4 Judge of Currents
4 Merrow Reejery
4 Wanderwine Prophets
4 Merrow Commerce
4 Whispersilk Cloak
2 Memory Erosion
15 Islands
15 Plains
10x Island
10x Plains
4x Evolving Wilds
--------------------------------------
"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
--------------------------------------
In my merfolk deck I have 4x of Merfolk Reejerey, Merfolk Sovereign, and Coralhelm Commander.
This ain't aggro son
With the 8 more slots that you take out from lands, I say you run 4 Swords to plowshares + 4 Grimoire Thief.
Also, Wanderwine hub is a bad*** land.
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
If you aren't running Lord of Atlantis you are doing something wrong...
My Merfolk deck relies heavily on control, and, since I have run into a lot of mill decks, I planted a few of these nuggets, too: Quest for Ancient Secrets; Reminisce.
Those two cards give me three things: 1) they defend against mill decks, which just about everyone I know has at least one, and 2) they let me reincarnate my creatures by having no real graveyard, just a bed ( ), and 3) gives me deck size advantage in long-drawn out games where lesser decks would deck out.
Standard:
WBRG Aggro-Reanimator Humans GRBW
Modern:
UR Twinning RU
G Venus Fly Trap G
U Artifacts Aggro U
Legacy:
B Reanimator B
WU Stoneblade UW
EDH
WBGGhave, Guru of SporesGBW
URGRiku of the Two ReflectionsGRU
WUBRGScion of the Ur-DragonGRBUW
Casual
Far too many to list
Mkae Coralhelm a 4 of.
I think you have to many counters and not enough threats. I would add stuff like Merrow Reejerey and Merfolk Soverign.
I'd cut some spells for things like Propaganda.
Alexi's Cloak can also go.
Lyzolda, the Blood Witch | Maga, Traitor to Mortals | Mayael the Anima | Rafiq of the Many | Rhys the Redeemed
Sasaya, Oorochi Ascendant | Sygg, River Cutthroat | Thada Adel, Acquisitor | Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
"Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many."
In a bona fide Merfolk deck, he's..ok. But you're not really running that many Merfolk here. He makes no sense to me at all with your posted list.
Deserts are ok, but with the Halimars also in the mix, you're going to find it tough to reliably hit :symu::symu: you need for your counterspells. If I were to pick one or the other, I'd definitely take the Halimars in a control deck.
Honestly, I'd step back and decide on whether you want this to be an actual 'Merfolk' deck or whether you just want a decent control deck. That's what your current decklist is skewed toward.
No matter what you do, I'll point you at Rhystic Study for some serious card draw and/or control boost. Either way, you're going to benefit from this card being in play. If you're able, let the Studay 'draw triggers' go off and THEN counter their stuff. That way, you're either drawing a free card or your just making it easier to counter their spells (if you're holding Mana Leak for instance.)
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A few thoughts about the deck -- specifically what I might do with it if I were playing it (which isn't the same as the best thing to do, of course):
* I prefer Diplomatic Immunity to Alexi's Cloak, generally speaking. Your preference might vary, though -- it seems like you have enough instant-counterspells to go around, though, so I'd think the perseverance of DI would be a good choice if you actually care about the Shrouding and aren't just using it as a counterspell (in which case Intervene would be better).
* I might also consider Dream Cache instead of Fact or Fiction. It's a smaller gain, true. But it allows you to tuck lands on the bottom if need be, and nothing gets buried. It's also a bit cheaper, leaving more land up for counterspells.
* I might also add in a Soothsaying. Knowing you have 5 lands in a row coming (from your Halimar Depths) is great -- but being able to do something about it is better!
* I agree with Rysorz that there's a little too much CS. if the timing goes wrong and your opponent manages to get something down, a little bounce would go a long way. Unsummon is cheap -- both mana-wise and cash-wise. Repulse would probably be my choice, though.
* I might run 4 of the Enclave Cryptologist just to make sure he got out early and could be leveled up as quickly as possible. Maybe 4 Enclave Cryptologist and 2 Guile, instead of the other way around?
I like the deck, overall. I actually think this would be a blast to play in a multiplayer game. Morphling is probably right that specializing one way or the other is a more effective way to go, but this looks like fun.
Now speaking on a more down-to-earth basis, you can try to double your gains via Lullmage Mentor by having more than 1 of them out, via something like Phyrexian Metamorph, Followed Footsteps, Soul Foundry, etc. This gives you 2 Merfolk, then 2 more Merfolk per-spell countered. It should add up quite fast. Again, you'd have to change the deck around to be more accomodating.
R: Copypasta Sauce {Browbeat}
UR: Mana Cache , One Spell to Bind them All {Magnetic Theft}
UG: Epic Struggle , All-In-Poison {Metamorphosis}
UW: Planar Overlay , Decree of the Bailiff {Saprazzan Bailiff}
BG: Thought Gorger , Dark Chroma {Umbra Stalker}
UBR: Dwarven Shrine
WUBRG: Dissipation Field , Maelstrom Nexus
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=268743
I tested it out the other day and it worked quite beautifully.
R: Copypasta Sauce {Browbeat}
UR: Mana Cache , One Spell to Bind them All {Magnetic Theft}
UG: Epic Struggle , All-In-Poison {Metamorphosis}
UW: Planar Overlay , Decree of the Bailiff {Saprazzan Bailiff}
BG: Thought Gorger , Dark Chroma {Umbra Stalker}
UBR: Dwarven Shrine
WUBRG: Dissipation Field , Maelstrom Nexus
The counterspells you're running are very awkward as well. Why Dispel? You already have Sygg, River's Guide and Kira, Great Glass-Spinner from Instant-removal, so it's really not worth running such a narrow hoser. You'd be better off which something like Daze or Force Spike.
Reprisal is also a very weak removal spell, especially considering for 1 more mana you can get Retribution of the Meek to sweep everything.
Also, if you plan on using Tideshaper Mystic and Reef Shaman solely for mana-fixing, please don't. That's a terrible waste of your mana and deck slots. Just get a better manabase or use the strategies in the deck I posted above. My deck is not that powerful of a deck - I don't see why your friends would ban it.
R: Copypasta Sauce {Browbeat}
UR: Mana Cache , One Spell to Bind them All {Magnetic Theft}
UG: Epic Struggle , All-In-Poison {Metamorphosis}
UW: Planar Overlay , Decree of the Bailiff {Saprazzan Bailiff}
BG: Thought Gorger , Dark Chroma {Umbra Stalker}
UBR: Dwarven Shrine
WUBRG: Dissipation Field , Maelstrom Nexus
Instead of Gitaxian Probe I would suggest 2-3 Daze. Works nicely in combination with Cursecatcher and makes your Strip Mine more painful. Maybe instead of Halimar Depths you might want to include a couple Tectonic Edges too? I also don't know how often you will have the 2 mana open to cast Counterspell, perhaps cut some of those and add Spell Snares?
I suggest trying to fit in a second Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, she is really nuts against many decks that are relying on removal/burn to handle your fish. Not a fan of Diminish, how about Dismember instead? The 4 life is a bit painful, but it's a lot more versatile than Diminish.
Yes, Visions is also good against discard. Mana Leak is a good card, no doubt, but whether it works in your deck has to do with how often you can leave 2 mana open. My concern is that you would only have the islands to do this later in the game, when Mana Leak is itself not as strong.