Yes, by looks of it, you're right. I still think Wing is town, he offered to be lynched almost right away, which wouldn't make sense as scum. Scum would at least have tried to fight back a little. At least we'll know one way or another.
If someone claims that they are an unlynchable, unkillable, octa-voter, with 4 daykills and 6 doc-protects, then technically lynching that person solely based on his claim would be gaming the mod, but I would be just fine doing that.
"You have decided to banish WingDamage9001 to Tartarus. Unfortunately for you, this means you have banished Zeus, King of the Gods to Tartarus. Even worse, he was the only one who could see through the lies of the traitors. You have banished not only the king of Olympus, but also the cop. The end is drawing near, either for the loyalists or the defectors. The result is up to you."
Final Tally
WingDamage9001 (4)
The Ice King, Foxlnbpkqgz Æenioouoa, Alpha Werewolf, WingDamage9001
Night ends in 72ish hours. Saturday is a full day for me, so it may start sooner if all the choices or in, or it may start a couple hours later.
Hi everyone. I'm no Moera Krataia, but I appear anyway.
I'll be taking over for SP until he comes back, if he does.
Please forward me your role PMs and a summary of all night actions you've done so far, plus your night actions, if any, for N4, and we'll be up and running for D5.
"Yet another god who was loyal to the throne has been throne to the depths of Tartarus. You know him as BeingHumanBeing, but his Immortal name is Heracles, God of Olympus. Lucky for the loyalists, he was vanilla."
With 5 residing on Olympus, it takes just 3 to exile.
I see no real reason to wait for him. We can talk amongst ourselves, I suppose, but considering he's scum, why would we want to hear anything he says?
For the record, I expect this to come down to chosing between Archanoid and I at the end. Alpha and Fox are cleared, Ice is scum, so that's that. Alpha and Fox, don't say who you think is the other scum, and whoever is the back-up doc, make sure to protect the other one of you...there's no use protecting me cause they're not gonna kill me during the night...and if they do, just lynch Archanoid.
There's not much point in saying to lynch Archanoid if I make it through the night, because the other 2 of you are already cleared, so if you think I'm cleared from my actions, then you're obviously going to lynch Archanoid anyways. And if not, then you've got a choice to make.
If someone claims that they are an unlynchable, unkillable, octa-voter, with 4 daykills and 6 doc-protects, then technically lynching that person solely based on his claim would be gaming the mod, but I would be just fine doing that.
It's still not colorless, and has no color. That's a paradox. So either you're a Zen master or an idiot, I'll assume the Zen master for sake of argument. This card will have no paradoxes because it has a clear paradox. Deep stuff man.
Hmm. Well, now the options are between a Godfather and Heartwork getting bussed by Gamerz. Either way, vote TheIceKing for today, and we'll need to do some rereads for tomorrow.
Hmm. Well, now the options are between a Godfather and Heartwork getting bussed by Gamerz. Either way, vote TheIceKing for today, and we'll need to do some rereads for tomorrow.
Heh, or you. I know where my vote is going if I'm alive after night ends.
If someone claims that they are an unlynchable, unkillable, octa-voter, with 4 daykills and 6 doc-protects, then technically lynching that person solely based on his claim would be gaming the mod, but I would be just fine doing that.
"There's no need to look around or check on Tartarus. Foxlnbpkqgz Æenioouoa, also known as Hades, God of the Underworld, has been banished to Tartarus. Unfortunately for you, he was your back-up doc. You must now be smarter than ever in your quest to retain your power."
With 3 still residing on Olympus, it takes just 2 votes to exile.
Here we go, then. Down to the wire. I went back and re-examined the start of the thread in light of our current knowledge, trying to figure out if scum!alpha ("Godfather case") or scum!gamerz ("bus case") seems more reasonable. I found very little activity from Alpha, but lots from Gamerz, and it pushes me further in the direction of believing the bus case (the godfather case was already less plausible due to this being a basic).
The first day had a series of interactions in which Gamerz was accused and Heartwork quickly jumped to his defense, leading to this post:
And what if someone did say that? Their point wouldn't be any less valid. Maybe not about both of you being scum, but certainly that you've both defended each other in a very short amount of time.
For what he has posted that I have observed, he has seemed really opportunistic. His fencesitting on La3 was pretty bad and even his defense of Gamerz was also bad. He only really addresses the part about moving the vote around, not the fact that Gamerz was desperately trying to save the RVS, his random carefree attitude when it came to voting, or the point on how Gamerz never through a vote on Wing. I see this as Heart's attempt to defend someone he knows is town, without really defending them.
Gamerz quickly gets in on the bus: (note that this was a large post, trimmed to the parts relevant to Heartwork, still spoilered for size.)
This is a good point. Even in his response, he doesn't seem to understand the point:
See, his point isn't that you're not defending me enough...it's that you're defending me so much having given very little reasons to do so. Most of your reason for defending me has come down to 'I think he's town' or 'his responses sound town to me'. Which isn't saying much without reasons for thinking so.
One other comment on Heartwork as well that I noticed as I was re-reading his posts.
The intersting part here is that he mentions that either la3 or Wing are scum...he's not even considering the fact that it could be a town on town battle. Notice also one his posts later he mentions about how everyone is watching them 'duke it out'. It seems like he doesn't really care which one of them gets lynched as long as it's one of them....something that a scum would be eager to do in a town on town fight.
Anywho, scum list time!
Town
The Ice King (replacing Id_Ego)
Liked his answers and cases since he replaced in, and I had no problem with Id_Ego before he disappeared
Foxlnbpkqgz Æenioouoa
Just getting a feeling that between the unmerited case against him and his answers to questions, that he's town.
Not much to say to these ones. Despite the fact that I don't like BHB's case on Fox, I don't think it makes him scummy.
Scum
la3
Still don't like his play. Lack of experience can't always be used to explain away scummy behaviour. Barning, voting with poor justification, 'scum' lists where everyone is neutral or town, it keeps on building up. I'm also worried about him being a distraction to the town, and that can be particularly bad if he is a townie.
WingDamage9001
I don't like his recent change in reason for his vote on la3. It's like Fox said, there's a difference between poking and prodding; and making a case, seeing where it goes, and then calling it poking and prodding
heartwork
Getting the feeling that he's just been waiting for a decent case to be made against someone that he can latch onto.
So for now, I will
vote Heartwork
Here, as elsewhere, he supports TIK; here more explicitly than elsewhere. The day on which Wing and TiK claimed is interesting. Here is Gamerz' immediate response to Wing's claim:
Hmm, so I'm *almost* thinking that we mass claim at this point. I'm more inclined to believe Wing in this instance, mostly because he doesn't have *that* much to gain if he's lying scum. But mass claiming might help us determine better what's going on.
He is "inclined to believe" Wing, but still wants more information. Then Ice King claims, and Gamerz' immediate response:
Ok, that settles it. I believe Ice King. There can't be a watcher, cop, doc, AND back-up doc. And having a watcher with a doc and back-up doc makes a LOT more sense than a doc, back-up doc, and cop.
Not to mention that it's a lot easier if we lynch Wing. If Wing is scum, then great! But if he actually *is* telling the truth, then we know who the other 2 scum are anyways. It's win/almost win.
He only begins to question TIK after I've already hypothesized about an Ice-Gamerz scumteam. And at that point, he starts flip-flopping between Ice and Wing before finally settling on Wing.
As a final data point, I looked back and re-evaluated Gamerz' attack on la3, which included false-claiming a power role. Town almost never has reason to lie - and had Gamerz not been "confirmed town" from his earler role in the Heartwork lynch, that action would have put massive suspicion on him. Now, in light of the rest of our information, it looks really bad again, and contributes to my concern about Gamerz being the scum.
I am still reading through to find if there's anything scummy from Alpha, as the godfather case is still conceivable, though I have yet to find anything that triggers significant suspicion. Right now, the above data all lead me to strongly believe Gamerz is the scum, but I will wait to cast my vote until I've finished the reread for Alpha.
Finished rereading Alpha Werewolf. There's not a lot of contribution in general, but what he does have does not read as scummy to me. He's done a some poking at individuals over particular comments, but he hasn't pursued any cases beyond the point of getting a reasonable answer; e.g. he read BHB as scum, BHB responds, AW says he's satisfied enough that he can't be certain BHB is scum and retracts his vote. He was in Wing's lynch, but with a reasonable explanation:
I think we should vote on what plan to go with. We basically have:
1. Lynching Wing, then proceeding (town - lynch TIK. Scum - start thinking).
2. BHB's plan.
3. Archonoid's edited BHB plan.
I think I'm gonna vote for plan 1. It requires no reveal from the back-up Doc and doesn't give scum!TIK the option of guessing his way out - and I'm personally more inclined to believe that TIK is a Townie than Wing.
There's nothing there to give me reason to believe AW is scum, given the analysis on Gamerz. The only thing scummy is the relative inactivity, but that's a very weak scum read and he is not significantly less active than many of the others who flipped town. This analysis and my previous analysis on Gamerz leads me to believe the "bus case" must be correct. Consequently, vote Gamerz.
"Good game indeed. You have chosen to exile Gamerz without giving him a chance to defend himself. He was Hermes, Messenger of the Gods, and he was on the town's side, albeit with no abilities. With his banishment to Tartarus, the balance of power has finally toppled to the defectors' side. Archonoid; also called Athena, Goddess of Wisdom and Strategic Warfare; as the last remaining loyalist to the Gods of Olympus, you too are banished to Tartarus. Alpha Werewolf; also called Hera, Queen of the Gods; you have demonstrated a willingness to go above and beyond to achieve your goals. Due to your victory as the Mafia Godfather, Olympus is now yours."
Ughhh wish I didn't have to replace out was an awesome game. Hope you come back soon SP :).
P.S I'm a man
@ shalako didn't we know that from 31
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Damn. I knew I was taking a gamble with the possibility of a Godfather. Sad to see I was wrong. But well played AW for not giving me any reason to suspect you throughout the game. On that note, first game of mafia completed! Fun game, thanks everyone for participating.
Arch, you played well considering it's your first game, but it seems you managed to forget that Gamerz was confirmed town from the name-CC of Heartwork back on Day 1, after he flipped scum.
Arch, you played well considering it's your first game, but it seems you managed to forget that Gamerz was confirmed town from the name-CC of Heartwork back on Day 1, after he flipped scum.
I didn't forget that - I was betting on that being bussing.
I didn't forget that - I was betting on that being bussing.
Oh. Your bringing up godfathers and whatnot threw me off.
Seems like an odd way to bus someone, IMHO, particularly on D1, but I'm not one to argue a gut read. I just can't say I would have my mind changed from that point, bar catching Gamerz in a substantial lie. Even if his play was mildly suspicious, he wasn't exactly hiding during the game, which you could say AW was.
Doc/Backup/Cop vs Godfather seems more than a bit town-favored, but maybe I don't appreciate how powerful a Godfather is in these settings. Probably should've made an assumption after seeing two vanilla goons flip, though E: and the mafia leaving the counterclaimer alive all this time.
Arch, you played well considering it's your first game, but it seems you managed to forget that Gamerz was confirmed town from the name-CC of Heartwork back on Day 1, after he flipped scum.
Ughhh wish I didn't have to replace out was an awesome game. Hope you come back soon SP :).
P.S I'm a man
@ shalako didn't we know that from 31
I took that page from shalako's playbook, and it was unfortunate that I was forced into it. As much as I dislike godfather, I think I hate the cop more, and I feel that the two doctors without a mafia roleblocker made it fairly balanced.
I hate cops with a passion. I was basically trapped, as was alpha to an extent.
I bet it was TIK's idea to kill me Night 1, and it was a good one.
I was the voice of the town, and after catching Heartwork there was simply no chance that I was scum. I protected Gamerz Night 1 since he was all but cleared due to his counterclaim. How he got mislynched at LoL is beyond me, good job scumteam for that.
Great game, despite dying early I had lots of fun.
I bet it was TIK's idea to kill me Night 1, and it was a good one.
I was the voice of the town, and after catching Heartwork there was simply no chance that I was scum. I protected Gamerz Night 1 since he was all but cleared due to his counterclaim. How he got mislynched at LoL is beyond me, good job scumteam for that.
I actually thought we might be able to pull that off on Gamerz. Essentially, I could make the case that heartwork's false claim was so bad, it was too bad. Claiming PR and then getting counterclaimed is one thing, but claiming vanilla with a name someone else has seems like such an obvious bus, I might have been able to convince the town on that.
However, the lack of death night 2 should have confirmed Gamerz position, if only Fox had confirmed me. But then, I am willing to bet Gamerz would have gone after Archnoid, as Wing believed him to be the last scum. Fortunately, GF saved the day.
Great game, despite dying early I had lots of fun.
I may or may not have wanted a bit of revenge for your complete fooling me (and hell, you owed me one, I am pretty sure I saved you twice ;))
You flipping doc was complete luck, and I almost wanted to keep you around because you had me on leaning town, but you were one of the few experienced players in the game.
I actually thought we might be able to pull that off on Gamerz. Essentially, I could make the case that heartwork's false claim was so bad, it was too bad. Claiming PR and then getting counterclaimed is one thing, but claiming vanilla with a name someone else has seems like such an obvious bus, I might have been able to convince the town on that.
However, the lack of death night 2 should have confirmed Gamerz position, if only Fox had confirmed me. But then, I am willing to bet Gamerz would have gone after Archnoid, as Wing believed him to be the last scum. Fortunately, GF saved the day.
Pretty much. Based on Gamerz' comments, I was certain that he was either scum, or was town and convinced that I was the last scum. The Wing lynch pretty much guaranteed scum victory - Gamerz seemed equally convinced that there was no possibility of a Godfather, so if he had not been mislynched, I would have been.
Pretty much. Based on Gamerz' comments, I was certain that he was either scum, or was town and convinced that I was the last scum. The Wing lynch pretty much guaranteed scum victory - Gamerz seemed equally convinced that there was no possibility of a Godfather, so if he had not been mislynched, I would have been.
I sent him a text saying that the game was over. He guessed he had been lynched (which you should never vote someone if you are town when it's down to 3 since it will let the scum quick lynch before everyone has their say), and he did guess that you were the scum Arch.
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
i was reading along this game because i wanted to replace in, unfortunately when the moment arrived i was already with 3 games under my belt, so arch entered and promptly made town lose on lylo, if i had replaced in surely town would win
hehhehe, now seriously, arch did a great job, he made a mistake at the end, but i can totally see others doing the same considering the situation. i see a great future for arch.
finally i want to give the props to tik too, that was an amazing game sir. looks like tik is on fire! thats like two or three games in a row that hes the MVP.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
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@mod: votecount please?
My blog.
"You have decided to banish WingDamage9001 to Tartarus. Unfortunately for you, this means you have banished Zeus, King of the Gods to Tartarus. Even worse, he was the only one who could see through the lies of the traitors. You have banished not only the king of Olympus, but also the cop. The end is drawing near, either for the loyalists or the defectors. The result is up to you."
Final Tally
WingDamage9001 (4)
The Ice King, Foxlnbpkqgz Æenioouoa, Alpha Werewolf, WingDamage9001
Night ends in 72ish hours. Saturday is a full day for me, so it may start sooner if all the choices or in, or it may start a couple hours later.
Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
I'll be taking over for SP until he comes back, if he does.
Please forward me your role PMs and a summary of all night actions you've done so far, plus your night actions, if any, for N4, and we'll be up and running for D5.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
"Yet another god who was loyal to the throne has been throne to the depths of Tartarus. You know him as BeingHumanBeing, but his Immortal name is Heracles, God of Olympus. Lucky for the loyalists, he was vanilla."
With 5 residing on Olympus, it takes just 3 to exile.
Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
My blog.
For the record, I expect this to come down to chosing between Archanoid and I at the end. Alpha and Fox are cleared, Ice is scum, so that's that. Alpha and Fox, don't say who you think is the other scum, and whoever is the back-up doc, make sure to protect the other one of you...there's no use protecting me cause they're not gonna kill me during the night...and if they do, just lynch Archanoid.
There's not much point in saying to lynch Archanoid if I make it through the night, because the other 2 of you are already cleared, so if you think I'm cleared from my actions, then you're obviously going to lynch Archanoid anyways. And if not, then you've got a choice to make.
The only colour with a 99/99
Signature by Spongy Pengwin
UBR: Sedris
Watched Fox, nothing happened last night, but if you choose to lynch me tonight, I can't say I blame you.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
My blog.
You caught me
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I freaking hate cops. If you couldn't tell, I was pretty much trapped by Wing getting 3 investigations, all on players who didn't die.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Heh, or you. I know where my vote is going if I'm alive after night ends.
When I said tomorrow, I meant over.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I haven't had time to write any flavor for the death scene, so here's an extra picture of Zooey Deschanel to make up for it.
Night ends in 72ish hours, or until all night actions are in, whichever comes first.
Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
"There's no need to look around or check on Tartarus. Foxlnbpkqgz Æenioouoa, also known as Hades, God of the Underworld, has been banished to Tartarus. Unfortunately for you, he was your back-up doc. You must now be smarter than ever in your quest to retain your power."
With 3 still residing on Olympus, it takes just 2 votes to exile.
Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
The first day had a series of interactions in which Gamerz was accused and Heartwork quickly jumped to his defense, leading to this post:
At the time, one of the people most obviously drawing the connection was Ambassador Laquatus, both in the immediate response to the post above:
and in an earlier post in that exchange:
Ambassador Laquatus, of course, was killed on Night 1.
Then I noticed this post from The Ice King, made when Heartwork was at 2 votes; now knowing that TIK was scum, there is a clear bus going on:
Gamerz quickly gets in on the bus: (note that this was a large post, trimmed to the parts relevant to Heartwork, still spoilered for size.)
He is "inclined to believe" Wing, but still wants more information. Then Ice King claims, and Gamerz' immediate response:
He only begins to question TIK after I've already hypothesized about an Ice-Gamerz scumteam. And at that point, he starts flip-flopping between Ice and Wing before finally settling on Wing.
As a final data point, I looked back and re-evaluated Gamerz' attack on la3, which included false-claiming a power role. Town almost never has reason to lie - and had Gamerz not been "confirmed town" from his earler role in the Heartwork lynch, that action would have put massive suspicion on him. Now, in light of the rest of our information, it looks really bad again, and contributes to my concern about Gamerz being the scum.
I am still reading through to find if there's anything scummy from Alpha, as the godfather case is still conceivable, though I have yet to find anything that triggers significant suspicion. Right now, the above data all lead me to strongly believe Gamerz is the scum, but I will wait to cast my vote until I've finished the reread for Alpha.
There's nothing there to give me reason to believe AW is scum, given the analysis on Gamerz. The only thing scummy is the relative inactivity, but that's a very weak scum read and he is not significantly less active than many of the others who flipped town. This analysis and my previous analysis on Gamerz leads me to believe the "bus case" must be correct. Consequently, vote Gamerz.
Good game.
My blog.
"Good game indeed. You have chosen to exile Gamerz without giving him a chance to defend himself. He was Hermes, Messenger of the Gods, and he was on the town's side, albeit with no abilities. With his banishment to Tartarus, the balance of power has finally toppled to the defectors' side. Archonoid; also called Athena, Goddess of Wisdom and Strategic Warfare; as the last remaining loyalist to the Gods of Olympus, you too are banished to Tartarus. Alpha Werewolf; also called Hera, Queen of the Gods; you have demonstrated a willingness to go above and beyond to achieve your goals. Due to your victory as the Mafia Godfather, Olympus is now yours."
Scum chat is here.
Thank you to everyone for playing, and a huge thanks to everyone for sticking around when I disappeared.
I will be back either after baseball practice or tomorrow morning to deal with any questions or gripes anyone may have.
Official Deschanel Stalker of The Called
Interesting game. It appears that Counter-Claiming Cop with Watcher is a valid tactic.
Well played Scum.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
P.S I'm a man
@ shalako didn't we know that from 31
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Arch, you played well considering it's your first game, but it seems you managed to forget that Gamerz was confirmed town from the name-CC of Heartwork back on Day 1, after he flipped scum.
TIK, beautiful gambit.
Oh. Your bringing up godfathers and whatnot threw me off.
Seems like an odd way to bus someone, IMHO, particularly on D1, but I'm not one to argue a gut read. I just can't say I would have my mind changed from that point, bar catching Gamerz in a substantial lie. Even if his play was mildly suspicious, he wasn't exactly hiding during the game, which you could say AW was.
Doc/Backup/Cop vs Godfather seems more than a bit town-favored, but maybe I don't appreciate how powerful a Godfather is in these settings. Probably should've made an assumption after seeing two vanilla goons flip, though E: and the mafia leaving the counterclaimer alive all this time.
Not as much as you think; We went for Gamerz on night 2, but the back-up blocked that, and after that we were just looking for the back-up doctor.
As for the back-up doctor himself, I think it was a very nice twist. I have to ask, though, if he could self-protect; Seems too strong.
You guys were too quick to assume that a Godfather is unlikely, I'd say. It's not too uncommon in Basics from what I know.
My blog.
I took that page from shalako's playbook, and it was unfortunate that I was forced into it. As much as I dislike godfather, I think I hate the cop more, and I feel that the two doctors without a mafia roleblocker made it fairly balanced.
I hate cops with a passion. I was basically trapped, as was alpha to an extent.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I was the voice of the town, and after catching Heartwork there was simply no chance that I was scum. I protected Gamerz Night 1 since he was all but cleared due to his counterclaim. How he got mislynched at LoL is beyond me, good job scumteam for that.
Great game, despite dying early I had lots of fun.
I actually thought we might be able to pull that off on Gamerz. Essentially, I could make the case that heartwork's false claim was so bad, it was too bad. Claiming PR and then getting counterclaimed is one thing, but claiming vanilla with a name someone else has seems like such an obvious bus, I might have been able to convince the town on that.
However, the lack of death night 2 should have confirmed Gamerz position, if only Fox had confirmed me. But then, I am willing to bet Gamerz would have gone after Archnoid, as Wing believed him to be the last scum. Fortunately, GF saved the day.
I may or may not have wanted a bit of revenge for your complete fooling me (and hell, you owed me one, I am pretty sure I saved you twice ;))
You flipping doc was complete luck, and I almost wanted to keep you around because you had me on leaning town, but you were one of the few experienced players in the game.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
I sent him a text saying that the game was over. He guessed he had been lynched (which you should never vote someone if you are town when it's down to 3 since it will let the scum quick lynch before everyone has their say), and he did guess that you were the scum Arch.
I made the initial suggestion, and TIK agreed. We were very well aware that to have a shot at this, we needed you dead.
My blog.
hehhehe, now seriously, arch did a great job, he made a mistake at the end, but i can totally see others doing the same considering the situation. i see a great future for arch.
finally i want to give the props to tik too, that was an amazing game sir. looks like tik is on fire! thats like two or three games in a row that hes the MVP.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.