I'm not, but I'm certainly not going to give up information if we have no idea how useful it will be to the town. Going out like that on a whim is the way to lose games.
Your stated goal in revealing this info was to find out whether claims are useful or not in this game. That has been answered. So unless you have another way of using that information in mind, I have no reason to reveal anything about my role, since I guarantee you that whatever the setup is, the mafia know more about it than we do, and can thus better exploit people's urges to spill seemingly useless information.
That said, I can guarantee that we aren't all from different comics, because two people have already said that they don't have a rolename at all. That tells me that Az designed the game with mass claiming in mind, and that there's no good reason to go further with it.
Interesting. So a person has died claiming that there were mafia in the town hall, that he was in the town hall last night, and you don't think knowledge as to who was in the town hall is even relevant, let alone useful?
Quote from LJustus »
And for scummiest appearance in a mafia game, the award goes to vote Highroller.
Seriously, you have to be prodded to post, but when you do, you come in with both barrels blazing trying to get information that would only benefit the mafia -- or perhaps your win condition as a SK is something different, like you have to kill all the female characters or all the characters from a specific episode/issue of Sin City.
Let me say this again. . . . Mass claims on Day 1 only benefit the mafia. Calling for a mass claim on Day 1 is scummy.
LJustus, I don't know if you've ever gone to journalism school, but surely the idea of factchecking is basic enough for anyone to know. Really, if you're going to throw accusations, try basing them on what I really said, as opposed to what carrionpigeons claims my angle is.
Information that would only benefit the mafia? First off, how would the knowledge of what characters are from what comics benefit the mafia at all? The mafia already know damn well who the mafia are. Their goal is primarily to keep this knowledge away from the town, as well as to identify any townspeople with powerful abilities. Knowing the ROLE NAMES of people does not do this. The only people it can help are those actively attempting to identify people who do not fit certain patterns, if those patterns exist. We don't know that they exist or not. In previous games based around a certain theme, usually knowing the role names of people can point to who is mafia, because those mafia either deviate from the pattern, or fit a certain pattern enough to be identified.
Is that the case in this game? I don't know. But unlike people who are determined to bury their heads in the sand, I want to actually find out.
Mass roleclaiming? Well that's a strong accusation. I agree that had I ever advocated a mass roleclaim, I'd be very suspicious. That's why I never did. I challenge you to prove me otherwise, and until you do, I'd like to ask you to retract your previous statement and cease printing any lies about me.
Oh, and by the way, the mafia's goal on day one would not be a mass claim. Anyone who's ever been mafia will tell you that. Mass claim means the mafia all must take a risk and make up a role. Mass NAME claim would mean they'd have to do this in addition to losing any advantage of finding out who's a powerful town role. No, the mafia's job on Day One is to make sure the town is as much in the dark as possible.
Therefore, you can understand why I'm going to FOS: LJustus. I'd prefer people not making up their own evidence against others, thank you very much.
Yeah, yeah. Give me a break. It's been a long week.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Reading may be tech, but it's not widely used tech.
Highroller> You're missing the point that if some people have named roles and other have generic roles ("bloke with moustache" etc.) the former may correlate with the town power roles.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
It's been an eventful day. Too eventful, for your tastes. But the surprises just won't stop coming.
While you argue in the conference chamber, a strong wind begins to whistle through the building. Odd, you'd thought all the windows had been boarded up.
Then, the light began to flicker, and dim, then puff out, one by one. Those of you in the chamber draw close to one another, going back to back. Something is seriously amiss.
Then, an unholy light gleams from the center of the chamber, and a pale, transparent apparition erupts out of the floor. It is the spirit of DYH, returned from the grave. He regards you all solemnly, using one hand to hold in his ruined intestines, then speaks:
Quote from Disrupt_Your_Hymn »
FIRST THINGS FIRST, THIS IS NOT THE MAN THAT KILLED ME.
But then again, you already knew that. Hey, thanks for throwing me out like yesterday's trash. I realize I must've been quite a mess, but don't you think someone could've had the decency to bury me in the ground? Some friends you all turned out to be.
SOMEONE THAT KILLS DURING THE DAY? THAT'S NOT GOOD. AND OBVIOUSLY UNEXPECTED.
It's so dark in this alley. The rats are chewing on me, just like they did to my little Lola! Help! Make it stop! I can't bear to watch this again!
IT IS JUST LIKE LOLA. THIS MAN, KEVIN, YOU CALL HIM. HE'S A MONSTER. PLEASE GET REVENGE FOR MY FAMILY.
Just ignore my singing, it keeps me peaceful. La de da, de da, de dum.
PUZZLE'S CLAIM STINKS. BUT THERE ARE TWO OTHERS I THINK MIGHT HAVE HAD A HAND IN STRIKING ME DOWN- OR AT LEAST WEREN'T SAD TO SEE ME GO.
AuroraSparrow has done nothing to increase my confidence. In fact, pointing out immediately after my death that it made him look bad, well yeah, it did. And with good reason. Did you do this? Did you do this to me!?!
BUT EVEN AURORASPARROW ISN'T MY HIGHEST CONCERN.
The cockroaches sure are big out here. Man, now it's raining. Jeesh. I wish I was hanging out with the Tooth Fairy again. A big thanks to whomever woke me up outta my dream for this little seance.
VOTE: HIGHROLLER. MASS CLAIMS WITH A DAYKILLER OUT THERE, AND FEW LEADS ON MAFIA? ARE YOU NUTS?
No, he's just probably with the scum that killed poor little Lola.
WELL, IT'S BEEN FUN. I'M GOING TO TRY AND GET SOME SLEEP NOW. OH WAIT, THAT'S ALL I REALLY CAN DO ANYMORE. :xd:
Poor Lola, don't worry, I'm coming back to you now. 8^)
CALL ME ANY TIME, I KEEP UP YOU KNOW.
I miss you all. I miss my liver. :wink2:
With an abrupt flash of light, he vanishes. It's already been the strangest day of your life, but it only keeps getting stranger.
At this point, it might be high time for the fetal position.
This game is breaking my brain.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Alright, first thing's first. Unvote Highroller. I believe this proves I can't double vote.
Great, now I got a dead guy voting for me. I'm like a Republican presidential candidate.
Action: Exorcize DYH, or at least slap some common sense into him. I just said I never advocated a mass claim. Read the thread.
Speaking of which, I've just reread the entire thread. I'm going to need to do so again do figure out exactly where I stand on the issues of Puzzle and aurorasparrow.
However, I'm definitely going to vote CropCircles. The entire day he's done nothing but shoot down any motion that would lead to the town's actually gaining information by making the accusation that it is the work of the mafia attempting to point out all of the power roles. It is interesting how he pursues the identity of Kevin, yet makes absolutely certain no one else posts in a manner revealing information without getting an opposite editorial from him.
Oh please. I'm scummy for opposing a mass name claim? Do I even need to defend myself here? HighRoller, are you familiar with LotR Mafia or Shaman Mafia?
With HighRoller and HE7 posting more, I'm feeling much more like WoLG is Kevin. I don't like the way that he latched onto HR's and Raf's claiming of being non-Sin City characters, especially when claiming had been advised against. Could easily be setting up for a false claim, as Kevin would obviously need. He also has been quiet, even given his post restriction. Vote WoLG I think it's time for him to speak up and say something.
Okay, DYH being called back by an ability makes a little more sense. I was thinking we'd be seeing him pop in and out all game. I'm really not sure what else to think of this.
Oh please. I'm scummy for opposing a mass name claim? Do I even need to defend myself here? HighRoller, are you familiar with LotR Mafia or Shaman Mafia?
I'm not. Most of the games I've played have been on MTGNews.
And yes, I do believe you should defend yourself. Your grievances against my questions:
1. Who was in the town hall?
2. Who isn't a character in the Sin City comics?
are, in my opinion, completely unfounded. These questions are hardly a mass roleclaim, or even a mass name claim. They do not reveal any power roles. They are simply a means of accumulating information, a process you seem so reluctant for the town to undergo. This unnerves me, in part because I see many people parroting this type of argument as though it made sense, and in part because I wonder how you intend for the town to win this game.
1. Who was in the town hall?
2. Who isn't a character in the Sin City comics?
Answering 1 would give away power roles. And besides, the mafia aren't going to go "I was in the town hall last night, I was uhh... cooking, yeah thats my night ability." It sounds like that's what you want to get out of it.
Answering 2 could expose something else. The people from the other comic(s) could have a communal ability or something. And from what they've posted already, I think I know what characters they are. I'm not going to say.
I can't remember if I already said FOS:Highroller, but yeah.
Also, are we going to start seeing dead people posting every day now?
Anyone who's not voting Highroller after that last post is crazy. If you think this information is so insignificant to the mafia, why do you want it in the first place?
Unvote, Vote: Highroller
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
I still don't understand your insistence on question 1, HR. If we look at Azrael's narrative in the second post of the thread, it says that everyone is in the town hall - it says we "rounded up everyone into the old town hall, and padlocked the door."
23 people it gets hard to keep track of some people. Which means, after we use the information we have now, we might have to start agressivly pursuing lurkers.
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Answering 2 could expose something else. The people from the other comic(s) could have a communal ability or something. And from what they've posted already, I think I know what characters they are. I'm not going to say.
Perhaps they could. Seeing how I am one, I can tell you that they probably don't, or if they do, at least one of them doesn't know it. Again, this goes back to figuring out stuff about this game.
Quote from Fayul »
Anyone who's not voting Highroller after that last post is crazy. If you think this information is so insignificant to the mafia, why do you want it in the first place?
Unvote, Vote: Highroller
... Because I'm not mafia? How exactly do you want me to answer that question?
Quote from fadeblue »
I still don't understand your insistence on question 1, HR. If we look at Azrael's narrative in the second post of the thread, it says that everyone is in the town hall - it says we "rounded up everyone into the old town hall, and padlocked the door."
I wanted to know if anyone would come forward and say that they were specifically NOT in the town hall to see what exactly we were working with in regards to the various odd happenings going on in the town hall.
I actually missed that part of the second post. However, I think it makes the people who were in uproar against my two questions for allegedly trying to reveal power roles look all the more idiotic.
@HighRoller: Shaman Mafia was broken by the mafia(specifically Puzzle) because everyone claimed the third letter of their role name. Just because information seems insignificant doesn't mean it is.
LotR was lost partially because players relied on patterns in the set up, when the game was specifically designed to avoid such a thing.
Azreal has already hinted that what we've tried in the past won't work. In addition, for someone to claim a character from another comic, they have to claim a character. Two of us have already said that we don't have a charater for a role name. Just a generic title. Characters are much more likely to have powerful abilities, so to claim that at this point is a mistake.
I'm much less concerned with the "left-the-town-hall" question.
Man, this game is wierd. How many people have daytime abilities?
Hey, the town got DAMN close to winning Lotr by using mass roleclaim. I just backstabbed them, because it guaranteed a win for me. =p I definitely wouldn't suggest it in this game, but its not always a bad idea (see the fiasco that was warcraft mafia).
Man, this game is wierd. How many people have daytime abilities?
Hey, the town got DAMN close to winning Lotr by using mass roleclaim. I just backstabbed them, because it guaranteed a win for me. =p I definitely wouldn't suggest it in this game, but its not always a bad idea (see the fiasco that was warcraft mafia).
No, I think that godchild would have held out long enough.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
FIRST THINGS FIRST, THIS IS NOT THE MAN THAT KILLED ME.
But then again, you already knew that. Hey, thanks for throwing me out like yesterday's trash. I realize I must've been quite a mess, but don't you think someone could've had the decency to bury me in the ground? Some friends you all turned out to be.
SOMEONE THAT KILLS DURING THE DAY? THAT'S NOT GOOD. AND OBVIOUSLY UNEXPECTED.
It's so dark in this alley. The rats are chewing on me, just like they did to my little Lola! Help! Make it stop! I can't bear to watch this again!
IT IS JUST LIKE LOLA. THIS MAN, KEVIN, YOU CALL HIM. HE'S A MONSTER. PLEASE GET REVENGE FOR MY FAMILY.
Just ignore my singing, it keeps me peaceful. La de da, de da, de dum.
PUZZLE'S CLAIM STINKS. BUT THERE ARE TWO OTHERS I THINK MIGHT HAVE HAD A HAND IN STRIKING ME DOWN- OR AT LEAST WEREN'T SAD TO SEE ME GO.
AuroraSparrow has done nothing to increase my confidence. In fact, pointing out immediately after my death that it made him look bad, well yeah, it did. And with good reason. Did you do this? Did you do this to me!?!
BUT EVEN AURORASPARROW ISN'T MY HIGHEST CONCERN.
The cockroaches sure are big out here. Man, now it's raining. Jeesh. I wish I was hanging out with the Tooth Fairy again. A big thanks to whomever woke me up outta my dream for this little seance.
VOTE: HIGHROLLER. MASS CLAIMS WITH A DAYKILLER OUT THERE, AND FEW LEADS ON MAFIA? ARE YOU NUTS?
No, he's just probably with the scum that killed poor little Lola.
WELL, IT'S BEEN FUN. I'M GOING TO TRY AND GET SOME SLEEP NOW. OH WAIT, THAT'S ALL I REALLY CAN DO ANYMORE.
Poor Lola, don't worry, I'm coming back to you now.
CALL ME ANY TIME, I KEEP UP YOU KNOW.
I miss you all. I miss my liver.
There's something you don't see everyday.
I didn't know Disrupt_Your_Hymn from Adam, but I do know it's pretty damn weird to have ghosts pop up b******g about their final resting place and accusin people.
Somebody brought DYH back from the dead and I'd lay even money that they wrote his script for him. I say even money because it is possible "Kevin" or whoever iced DYH got the jump on him just like whoever jobbed me did.
If DYH had seen his killers face why didn't his ghost say nothin?
Anybody have an idea what he meant by the tooth fairy?
Quote from CropCircles »
Azreal has already hinted that what we've tried in the past won't work. In addition, for someone to claim a character from another comic, they have to claim a character. Two of us have already said that we don't have a charater for a role name. Just a generic title. Characters are much more likely to have powerful abilities, so to claim that at this point is a mistake.
Azrael didn't just hint that stuff we tried in the past won't work, he came right out and said it. That don't mean he threw the rule book out but I'd lay 10 to 1 that he has mixed up the big guns between folks with names and average, no name Joes.
I look around a room full of faces. Some of them I've seen before. Some of them I've seen for more years then I want to remember.
Some, like DYH, I didn't know but all of them have seen some action. In Sin City you either see some action or you wind up at the bottom of the food chain. The bad guys have got us by the short hairs and unless we can start getting solid info we're just going to be end up as hamburger. The one thing we need to nail these bums is information and that's the one thing it seems half of them are scared of. If it's the questions that are out there that scare them, then let's come up with some that aren't.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Wouldn't it be cool if DYH could still use his ability, even though dead? Can you answer that DYH? Or was that last post/vote your last hurrah (as in, dead people get a final vote as a ghost?)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
23 people it gets hard to keep track of some people. Which means, after we use the information we have now, we might have to start agressivly pursuing lurkers.
* SorryGuy waves at Fayul.
Yeah guys, I have been lurking. Sorry about that, stuff happens. Anyway I am back into this game and must say this is what Az promised. First and foremost however I need to prove the following:
Unvote, Vote SorryGuy, Vote SorryGuy
Okay there we have it. Now for my comentary. Auroa is my vote after Az's next vote count. I agree after DYH's death AS does not look great. Him pointing it out really does not do much for me. His play has just been scummy, he seems to be looking for role information without coming out and saying it many times and I just think his play has just been bad.
Highroller also bothers me for obvious reasons. His lurking does not bother me as I know he does not visit 'Salvation all that often so stuff happens. His play though does bother me. Why ask those questions? I understand you thinking they are important for townies to know and do not think you are nessasarily scum but it does not look good.
As for Puzzle, he seems to be playing like Puzzle to me. He has clarified his role enough for me and for now I am fine with him.
Some, like DYH, I didn't know but all of them have seen some action. In Sin City you either see some action or you wind up at the bottom of the food chain. The bad guys have got us by the short hairs and unless we can start getting solid info we're just going to be end up as hamburger. The one thing we need to nail these bums is information and that's the one thing it seems half of them are scared of. If it's the questions that are out there that scare them, then let's come up with some that aren't.
HAWKEYE, I'm glad you and I are on the same wavelength. But where we differ is that I don't see where anyone should be afraid of my questions except those with something to hide. The town wants to settle down, but they've got to realize that there ain't no settling down. This isn't some bar room brawl. This is blood for blood by the gallons, and the town doesn't learn to grow some and take some risks there ain't gonna be anythin' left.
By the way, you ever get cold?
CropCircles: You're failing to propose alternatives. Yes, maybe some questions might not lead anywhere. But all I've seen you do is shoot them down. I don't see you doing anything that might conceivably lead us anywhere past, "I don't know what the hell's going on", which is where we are and where we'll stay if we don't actually act on any kind of impulse.
Azreal has already hinted that what we've tried in the past won't work. In addition, for someone to claim a character from another comic, they have to claim a character. Two of us have already said that we don't have a charater for a role name. Just a generic title. Characters are much more likely to have powerful abilities, so to claim that at this point is a mistake.
1. One need not necessarily give the fact that they are a character to say, "Yes, I'm from Sin City" or "No, I'm not"
2. They might be lying
3. There may be so many characters in this game it's impossible to keep track
You seem to be groping for a way that what I say can be harmful to the town. Alright, be my guest if the testimonies of two people are enough to let you abandon any further searching. Just recognize that this approach of shooting down any form of interrogation will get the town nowhere, as it has for the past twenty-three pages.
CropCircles: You're failing to propose alternatives.
I'm currently pressuring WoLG, and trying to find Kevin, our day killer. I'm also currently devoloping other leads that the town has yet to recognize, but I'll get to that if and after I'm satisfied with WoLG. One at a time.
Quote from HighRoller »
One need not necessarily give the fact that they are a character to say, "Yes, I'm from Sin City" or "No, I'm not"
I'm not sure you understand the nature of my role name. It is along the lines of "Assassin," "Informant," "Healer," and such. Similair to our departed "Lunatic." It does not infer any relation to any comic. So to say you are from a comic other then Sin City is still a clear indication that you are a character. If I'm not mistaken, Raf became rather sure of your role after you revealed that you weren't from Sin City. Who's to say the mafia won't also be able to figure such things out?
Quote from HighRoller »
They might be lying
Not likely, if they're town. I see this as a point against your arguement. The mafia will learn about us, but they can lie and lead us to come to false conclusions. They have more control over this then we do.
Quote from HighRoller »
There may be so many characters in this game it's impossible to keep track
I honestly don't understand your meaning here.
Quote from HighRoller »
You seem to be groping for a way that what I say can be harmful to the town.
I've explained why I've thought it to be hurtful more then once. I said it way back in the first few pages: it could out power roles and gives the mafia more info then we should expose. Groping at reasons? Misrepresent much?
Quote from HighRoller »
Just recognize that this approach of shooting down any form of interrogation will get the town nowhere, as it has for the past twenty-three pages.
Hows about we save I-told-you-sos for the end game. In the mean time, go ahead and stick to your guns, if you believe you are right. For the moment, I'll be stickin' to mine.
Ha...just realized DYH's role is a massive point against me. Nameless character with a power role.
I'm sleepin' on this. Expect something sensible tomorrow.
To say you are from a comic other then Sin City is still a clear indication that you are a character. If I'm not mistaken, Raf became rather sure of your role after you revealed that you weren't from Sin City.
Raf became quite sure after HR revealed the mtg nature of the man character of his world was primarily green(i think), which was the same as Raf. If these two are not simply "characters" as it appears, the mafia can make no assumptions about the non-Sin City people. Even so, this does little to seperate the power roles from the non-power roles (remember: nameless doesn't equal weak in Az's rules.). The mafia cannot seek out power roles any better than they could before.
Not likely, if they're town. I see this as a point against your arguement. The mafia will learn about us, but they can lie and lead us to come to false conclusions. They have more control over this then we do.
whenever the mafia lie, they run the risk of getting caught by someone with even more information. The process of learning does not significantly add to the amount of miscommunication the mafia gives out.
This Highroller thing is really getting a bit silly...
Highroller> OK, so you mostly play on News. Well, the fact is that several of the things you've been doing in this game are widely viewed as scummy by Salvation players. Rather than going from first principles to work out why our playing style is better (:tongue3:) I suggest you just accept at face value that you have indeed made yourself look a lot like a scum. And move on. It's a particularly bad idea to attack CropCircles, who is only voicing the ideas we're all thinking.
Personally I'm just going to wait until Puzzle gets back from Lille.
Oh, as for DYH - I would've thought it was obvious that someone used a special power to bring him back from the dead. A bit of a misfire really, since he had nothing much to say. The question is how often this power can be used... it doesn't seem that strong to me, so could even be once per day.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Kenji, it looks like you've only got 12 posts left, so you should probably use them sparingly.
To think HighRoller scummy for his actions is, in my eyes, short sighted. We disagree, but he clearly believes that what he is saying should be accepted, which is going to affect his playing regardless of whether he's scum or not. In the games I've seen him Mod, patterns in the game set-up have played a big part, so that's not suprising.
I'm not sure you understand the nature of my role name. It is along the lines of "Assassin," "Informant," "Healer," and such. Similair to our departed "Lunatic." It does not infer any relation to any comic. So to say you are from a comic other then Sin City is still a clear indication that you are a character. If I'm not mistaken, Raf became rather sure of your role after you revealed that you weren't from Sin City. Who's to say the mafia won't also be able to figure such things out?
Raf found out that the color of my comic is primarily associated with green. Green is not my role. I am not the Green Arrow. I am not the Green Hornet. I am not the color Green. Once again you continue to associate even the slightest amount of trivia with a full role claim.
Since I'm honestly concerned as to whether Salvation has any genitalia, I'm going to go ahead and move in a direction that I know will at least answer one question. Vote Azrael.
Highroller> OK, so you mostly play on News. Well, the fact is that several of the things you've been doing in this game are widely viewed as scummy by Salvation players. Rather than going from first principles to work out why our playing style is better (:tongue3:) I suggest you just accept at face value that you have indeed made yourself look a lot like a scum. And move on. It's a particularly bad idea to attack CropCircles, who is only voicing the ideas we're all thinking.
Not all of us are thinkin that Kiddo.
I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. This is like arguing which is better, American league or National league baseball. It's the same game, just one league plays it long ball and one plays it small ball. With a hot dog and a cold one they both get the job done. I tend to be a long ball guy myself but that don't mean it doesn't play well in a small ball town like Sin city. It's funny, what you guys are jumpin on HR for is small ball 101 and done all the time around here.
Quote from Highroller »
Since I'm honestly concerned as to whether Salvation has any genitalia, I'm going to go ahead and move in a direction that I know will at least answer one question. Vote Azrael.
Yeah, they wanted to hear more from Highroller. Lol.
This is going to be fun. It's like watching Jordan or Bogey go to work or lookin at the Grand Canyon or the design of this game, a pleasure to see.
I watch the smoke rising from my fresh lit camel snake it's way to the ceiling, again wishin I had something better in my flask then I did. May as well make myself comfortable so I head over to my favorite leather chair. Puzzle will be back in a bit, this is going to get very entertaining.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
RELAPSED MAFIA JUNKIE
W – 33, L – 19, Broke Games - 9
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
How could lynching Az possibly be of any help to the town?
Because I want to know what it does. Because it tells us something about the game. Because lynching Az would actually be doing something, which is what we're not doing right now.
Ok, I realize that WoLG is limited here, but he should have 5 posts left. I think it's time he uses one of those so we can get some kind of reaction to his being accused of being Kevin. He was viewing the thread earlier, and what-do-ya-know, still has yet to respond. We still have no reaction from him since before DYH was killed.
Raf found out that the color of my comic is primarily associated with green. Green is not my role. I am not the Green Arrow. I am not the Green Hornet. I am not the color Green. Once again you continue to associate even the slightest amount of trivia with a full role claim.
Since I'm honestly concerned as to whether Salvation has any genitalia, I'm going to go ahead and move in a direction that I know will at least answer one question. Vote Azrael.
Lantern?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, the wisdom to know the difference, and a ****ing chainsaw.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@SG- It was caled Dark Horse (a farm animal) not Dark Hoarse (laryngitis)
While we kill time waiting for various people to return, I'd like to ask everyone, Who are the 3 players you most feel are scum and why? Gut hunch is a valid reason, but at least put the post that first gave you the hunch.
Interesting. So a person has died claiming that there were mafia in the town hall, that he was in the town hall last night, and you don't think knowledge as to who was in the town hall is even relevant, let alone useful?
LJustus, I don't know if you've ever gone to journalism school, but surely the idea of factchecking is basic enough for anyone to know. Really, if you're going to throw accusations, try basing them on what I really said, as opposed to what carrionpigeons claims my angle is.
Information that would only benefit the mafia? First off, how would the knowledge of what characters are from what comics benefit the mafia at all? The mafia already know damn well who the mafia are. Their goal is primarily to keep this knowledge away from the town, as well as to identify any townspeople with powerful abilities. Knowing the ROLE NAMES of people does not do this. The only people it can help are those actively attempting to identify people who do not fit certain patterns, if those patterns exist. We don't know that they exist or not. In previous games based around a certain theme, usually knowing the role names of people can point to who is mafia, because those mafia either deviate from the pattern, or fit a certain pattern enough to be identified.
Is that the case in this game? I don't know. But unlike people who are determined to bury their heads in the sand, I want to actually find out.
Mass roleclaiming? Well that's a strong accusation. I agree that had I ever advocated a mass roleclaim, I'd be very suspicious. That's why I never did. I challenge you to prove me otherwise, and until you do, I'd like to ask you to retract your previous statement and cease printing any lies about me.
Oh, and by the way, the mafia's goal on day one would not be a mass claim. Anyone who's ever been mafia will tell you that. Mass claim means the mafia all must take a risk and make up a role. Mass NAME claim would mean they'd have to do this in addition to losing any advantage of finding out who's a powerful town role. No, the mafia's job on Day One is to make sure the town is as much in the dark as possible.
Therefore, you can understand why I'm going to FOS: LJustus. I'd prefer people not making up their own evidence against others, thank you very much.
Yeah, yeah. Give me a break. It's been a long week.
Reading may be tech, but it's not widely used tech.
Highroller> You're missing the point that if some people have named roles and other have generic roles ("bloke with moustache" etc.) the former may correlate with the town power roles.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
While you argue in the conference chamber, a strong wind begins to whistle through the building. Odd, you'd thought all the windows had been boarded up.
Then, the light began to flicker, and dim, then puff out, one by one. Those of you in the chamber draw close to one another, going back to back. Something is seriously amiss.
Then, an unholy light gleams from the center of the chamber, and a pale, transparent apparition erupts out of the floor. It is the spirit of DYH, returned from the grave. He regards you all solemnly, using one hand to hold in his ruined intestines, then speaks:
With an abrupt flash of light, he vanishes. It's already been the strangest day of your life, but it only keeps getting stranger.
5 Puzzle-Fadeblue, Axelrod, Hawkeye7, Armlx, Rafaelk
4 Highroller- Fayul, Highroller, LJustus, DYH
3 Aurorasparrow-JCSuperstar, Chamber, Carrion Pigeons
2 Fadeblue-Sorryguy, Kenji
1 Azrael- WoLG
8 Not Voting: Aurorasparrow, Bateleur, Crippled Fist, Cropcircles, Draygn_Mage, Einsteinmonkey, Matjoeman, Puzzle
12 to lynch.
Vote: DYH but we can't vote him, IIRC (I can't remember the results of my first test).
[The Family]
This game is breaking my brain.
Does this mean somebody used an ability on him?
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
Alright, first thing's first. Unvote Highroller. I believe this proves I can't double vote.
Great, now I got a dead guy voting for me. I'm like a Republican presidential candidate.
Action: Exorcize DYH, or at least slap some common sense into him. I just said I never advocated a mass claim. Read the thread.
Speaking of which, I've just reread the entire thread. I'm going to need to do so again do figure out exactly where I stand on the issues of Puzzle and aurorasparrow.
However, I'm definitely going to vote CropCircles. The entire day he's done nothing but shoot down any motion that would lead to the town's actually gaining information by making the accusation that it is the work of the mafia attempting to point out all of the power roles. It is interesting how he pursues the identity of Kevin, yet makes absolutely certain no one else posts in a manner revealing information without getting an opposite editorial from him.
Probably.
With HighRoller and HE7 posting more, I'm feeling much more like WoLG is Kevin. I don't like the way that he latched onto HR's and Raf's claiming of being non-Sin City characters, especially when claiming had been advised against. Could easily be setting up for a false claim, as Kevin would obviously need. He also has been quiet, even given his post restriction. Vote WoLG I think it's time for him to speak up and say something.
Okay, DYH being called back by an ability makes a little more sense. I was thinking we'd be seeing him pop in and out all game. I'm really not sure what else to think of this.
[The Family]
I'm not. Most of the games I've played have been on MTGNews.
And yes, I do believe you should defend yourself. Your grievances against my questions:
1. Who was in the town hall?
2. Who isn't a character in the Sin City comics?
are, in my opinion, completely unfounded. These questions are hardly a mass roleclaim, or even a mass name claim. They do not reveal any power roles. They are simply a means of accumulating information, a process you seem so reluctant for the town to undergo. This unnerves me, in part because I see many people parroting this type of argument as though it made sense, and in part because I wonder how you intend for the town to win this game.
Answering 1 would give away power roles. And besides, the mafia aren't going to go "I was in the town hall last night, I was uhh... cooking, yeah thats my night ability." It sounds like that's what you want to get out of it.
Answering 2 could expose something else. The people from the other comic(s) could have a communal ability or something. And from what they've posted already, I think I know what characters they are. I'm not going to say.
I can't remember if I already said FOS:Highroller, but yeah.
Also, are we going to start seeing dead people posting every day now?
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || sk: LookingforReality (Copycat) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || survivor: matjoeman (Anarchist) |||
<XylBot> ||| MAFIABOT || town: kops (Anarchist) |||
Mafia stats
Unvote, Vote: Highroller
23 people it gets hard to keep track of some people. Which means, after we use the information we have now, we might have to start agressivly pursuing lurkers.
Perhaps they could. Seeing how I am one, I can tell you that they probably don't, or if they do, at least one of them doesn't know it. Again, this goes back to figuring out stuff about this game.
... Because I'm not mafia? How exactly do you want me to answer that question?
I wanted to know if anyone would come forward and say that they were specifically NOT in the town hall to see what exactly we were working with in regards to the various odd happenings going on in the town hall.
I actually missed that part of the second post. However, I think it makes the people who were in uproar against my two questions for allegedly trying to reveal power roles look all the more idiotic.
LotR was lost partially because players relied on patterns in the set up, when the game was specifically designed to avoid such a thing.
Azreal has already hinted that what we've tried in the past won't work. In addition, for someone to claim a character from another comic, they have to claim a character. Two of us have already said that we don't have a charater for a role name. Just a generic title. Characters are much more likely to have powerful abilities, so to claim that at this point is a mistake.
I'm much less concerned with the "left-the-town-hall" question.
[The Family]
Hey, the town got DAMN close to winning Lotr by using mass roleclaim. I just backstabbed them, because it guaranteed a win for me. =p I definitely wouldn't suggest it in this game, but its not always a bad idea (see the fiasco that was warcraft mafia).
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
No, I think that godchild would have held out long enough.
There's something you don't see everyday.
I didn't know Disrupt_Your_Hymn from Adam, but I do know it's pretty damn weird to have ghosts pop up b******g about their final resting place and accusin people.
Somebody brought DYH back from the dead and I'd lay even money that they wrote his script for him. I say even money because it is possible "Kevin" or whoever iced DYH got the jump on him just like whoever jobbed me did.
If DYH had seen his killers face why didn't his ghost say nothin?
Anybody have an idea what he meant by the tooth fairy?
Azrael didn't just hint that stuff we tried in the past won't work, he came right out and said it. That don't mean he threw the rule book out but I'd lay 10 to 1 that he has mixed up the big guns between folks with names and average, no name Joes.
I look around a room full of faces. Some of them I've seen before. Some of them I've seen for more years then I want to remember.
Some, like DYH, I didn't know but all of them have seen some action. In Sin City you either see some action or you wind up at the bottom of the food chain. The bad guys have got us by the short hairs and unless we can start getting solid info we're just going to be end up as hamburger. The one thing we need to nail these bums is information and that's the one thing it seems half of them are scared of. If it's the questions that are out there that scare them, then let's come up with some that aren't.
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
:redface:
* SorryGuy waves at Fayul.
Yeah guys, I have been lurking. Sorry about that, stuff happens. Anyway I am back into this game and must say this is what Az promised. First and foremost however I need to prove the following:
Unvote, Vote SorryGuy, Vote SorryGuy
Okay there we have it. Now for my comentary. Auroa is my vote after Az's next vote count. I agree after DYH's death AS does not look great. Him pointing it out really does not do much for me. His play has just been scummy, he seems to be looking for role information without coming out and saying it many times and I just think his play has just been bad.
Highroller also bothers me for obvious reasons. His lurking does not bother me as I know he does not visit 'Salvation all that often so stuff happens. His play though does bother me. Why ask those questions? I understand you thinking they are important for townies to know and do not think you are nessasarily scum but it does not look good.
As for Puzzle, he seems to be playing like Puzzle to me. He has clarified his role enough for me and for now I am fine with him.
HAWKEYE, I'm glad you and I are on the same wavelength. But where we differ is that I don't see where anyone should be afraid of my questions except those with something to hide. The town wants to settle down, but they've got to realize that there ain't no settling down. This isn't some bar room brawl. This is blood for blood by the gallons, and the town doesn't learn to grow some and take some risks there ain't gonna be anythin' left.
By the way, you ever get cold?
CropCircles: You're failing to propose alternatives. Yes, maybe some questions might not lead anywhere. But all I've seen you do is shoot them down. I don't see you doing anything that might conceivably lead us anywhere past, "I don't know what the hell's going on", which is where we are and where we'll stay if we don't actually act on any kind of impulse.
1. One need not necessarily give the fact that they are a character to say, "Yes, I'm from Sin City" or "No, I'm not"
2. They might be lying
3. There may be so many characters in this game it's impossible to keep track
You seem to be groping for a way that what I say can be harmful to the town. Alright, be my guest if the testimonies of two people are enough to let you abandon any further searching. Just recognize that this approach of shooting down any form of interrogation will get the town nowhere, as it has for the past twenty-three pages.
I'm not sure you understand the nature of my role name. It is along the lines of "Assassin," "Informant," "Healer," and such. Similair to our departed "Lunatic." It does not infer any relation to any comic. So to say you are from a comic other then Sin City is still a clear indication that you are a character. If I'm not mistaken, Raf became rather sure of your role after you revealed that you weren't from Sin City. Who's to say the mafia won't also be able to figure such things out?
Not likely, if they're town. I see this as a point against your arguement. The mafia will learn about us, but they can lie and lead us to come to false conclusions. They have more control over this then we do.
I honestly don't understand your meaning here.
I've explained why I've thought it to be hurtful more then once. I said it way back in the first few pages: it could out power roles and gives the mafia more info then we should expose. Groping at reasons? Misrepresent much?
Hows about we save I-told-you-sos for the end game. In the mean time, go ahead and stick to your guns, if you believe you are right. For the moment, I'll be stickin' to mine.
Ha...just realized DYH's role is a massive point against me. Nameless character with a power role.
I'm sleepin' on this. Expect something sensible tomorrow.
[The Family]
whenever the mafia lie, they run the risk of getting caught by someone with even more information. The process of learning does not significantly add to the amount of miscommunication the mafia gives out.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
Highroller> OK, so you mostly play on News. Well, the fact is that several of the things you've been doing in this game are widely viewed as scummy by Salvation players. Rather than going from first principles to work out why our playing style is better (:tongue3:) I suggest you just accept at face value that you have indeed made yourself look a lot like a scum. And move on. It's a particularly bad idea to attack CropCircles, who is only voicing the ideas we're all thinking.
Personally I'm just going to wait until Puzzle gets back from Lille.
Oh, as for DYH - I would've thought it was obvious that someone used a special power to bring him back from the dead. A bit of a misfire really, since he had nothing much to say. The question is how often this power can be used... it doesn't seem that strong to me, so could even be once per day.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
To think HighRoller scummy for his actions is, in my eyes, short sighted. We disagree, but he clearly believes that what he is saying should be accepted, which is going to affect his playing regardless of whether he's scum or not. In the games I've seen him Mod, patterns in the game set-up have played a big part, so that's not suprising.
[The Family]
Raf found out that the color of my comic is primarily associated with green. Green is not my role. I am not the Green Arrow. I am not the Green Hornet. I am not the color Green. Once again you continue to associate even the slightest amount of trivia with a full role claim.
Since I'm honestly concerned as to whether Salvation has any genitalia, I'm going to go ahead and move in a direction that I know will at least answer one question. Vote Azrael.
4th place at CCC&G Pro Tour
Chances of bad hands (<2 or >4 land):
21: 28.9%
22: 27.5%
23: 26.3%
24: 25.5%
25: 25.1%
26: 25.3%
I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. This is like arguing which is better, American league or National league baseball. It's the same game, just one league plays it long ball and one plays it small ball. With a hot dog and a cold one they both get the job done. I tend to be a long ball guy myself but that don't mean it doesn't play well in a small ball town like Sin city. It's funny, what you guys are jumpin on HR for is small ball 101 and done all the time around here.
Yeah, they wanted to hear more from Highroller. Lol.
This is going to be fun. It's like watching Jordan or Bogey go to work or lookin at the Grand Canyon or the design of this game, a pleasure to see.
I watch the smoke rising from my fresh lit camel snake it's way to the ceiling, again wishin I had something better in my flask then I did. May as well make myself comfortable so I head over to my favorite leather chair. Puzzle will be back in a bit, this is going to get very entertaining.
Calvin & Hobbs Mafia, Mafia MVP
X-Men Mafia Town MVP
Simpson's Mafia - best use of character
Mtgnews Mafia Mafia - Town Madman
Mythos Mafia: the Dunwich Massacre Town MVP
English Literature Mafia Town MVP
Best Role-Playing Sin City Mafia
Werewolf Mafia - Mafia MVP
Doctor Mafia - Mafia MVP
Mafia: Escape from the Cylons - Town MVP
Lost Mafia - Co SK Winner with Kops
Random Mafia 3 - Town MVP
Because I want to know what it does. Because it tells us something about the game. Because lynching Az would actually be doing something, which is what we're not doing right now.
[The Family]
And do we really want him dead? If he is Dark Hoarse as someone said he may be, do we want to lynch him?
[The Family]
Lantern?
Nope.
(*is in a SuperHero game on Misetings right now*)
[The Family]
@SG- It was caled Dark Horse (a farm animal) not Dark Hoarse (laryngitis)
While we kill time waiting for various people to return, I'd like to ask everyone, Who are the 3 players you most feel are scum and why? Gut hunch is a valid reason, but at least put the post that first gave you the hunch.