This post shows that you really don't have any idea wth you're talking about. What happens in RDW when your opponent plays a creature with 4+ toughness? (something that will happen fairly frequently) You have to use two burn spells on it. If you have PTE, you use one spell on it and they get a land. You acknowledge that your creatures are smaller than some of Zoo's, so why would you EVER suggest taking out a spell that can remove their blocker to let you swing through and recommend replacing it with something that won't kill their blocker?
Also, the suggestion that SFM "makes the deck slower but more consistent" shows how little you understand Boros' strategy. By making the deck slower, you are making it less consistent. The reason for that is that Boros plays smaller, but faster, creatures than most other decks. You want to get in as much damage as fast as you can so that you can finish the player off with a burn spell or two. If you take turn two to play SFM and turn three to plop down a burn spell, that allows the other player to play out blockers which will be REALLY annoying for you, such as KoTR, Kitchen Finks, etc, and your chances of being able to utilize your smaller, more aggressive creatures, vanishes.
Lastly, your suggestion that you see Boros as more of a Death and Taxes list splashing red shows that you have no idea how either of the decks work. Death and Taxes tries to control the board state through its creatures and plays out as a midrange control deck. Boros plays out at an aggro deck. It wants to have the opponent dead by turn 4 every game. They use completely different strategies. You could splash red in D+T for bolt, helix and Grim Lavamancer, but that would still be primarily be D+T, it would not be Boros.
Probably the biggest reason to play Boros in Modern (over just playing Zoo, who's frequently just as fast, but has access to larger creatures) is that it can do far less damage to itself with lands than what Zoo does, but it loses very little in the way of speed to do so. If you know you're playing against another aggro deck, you can probably fetch out basics every turn instead of shocks, but in many cases, Zoo will be forced to fetch out a shock on at least its first turn so that it will have all three land types on turn 2 for its Nacatls. Modern's a format where many decks do a large amount of damage to themselves, so if you can play a deck that is extremely aggressive and does a much smaller amount of damage to itself, then you can be at an advantage in races.
Concerning RDW, I just meant that I have yet to see a list that splashed White just for PtE or Swords in Legacy so why would that change in modern?
When I say RDW, I almost mean burn. Creature package? Grim, goblin guide hellspark elemental, keldon marauders, etc... Most of them are dealing damages even when sitting on their asses (with the exception of GG, and hellspark but they have haste so...)
You shouldn't worry about "being blocked" you should race them, and if they can block, burn them and finish the job.
When I compared Boros to D+T, it was mostly due to the amount of cards in common they have (if you pack SFM in Boros). I know how D+T's working and Boros felt like a more aggressive version of the deck (minus the board control).
So yeah I don't understand why you would want to play PtE in a RDW like deck, when most of your creatures have haste, are pretty much like burn spells or able to deal damages without attacking. White doesn't add anything relevent to that strategy imo.
If you want to add white, it's better to go the middrange route, which is why I advocated on SFM. Turn 3 Batterskull is almost a reason by itself to play SFM. Otherwise if you wanna play straight aggro, just play Zoo or a regular RDW. Both of them feels much more competitive than "boros".
But Zoo is still a better midrange deck than Boros ever will be because it has more relevant creatures in the late game than Boros does. Steppe Lynx and Goblin Guide don't really do much when your opponent has Goyf and KotR and you are running low on fetchlands. Sure you SFM but Zoo can run as well and it actually has threats that are just bigger than Batterskull plus some lists maindeck Pridemage which beats Batterskull on its own. Boros is better off as an aggro deck like its meant to be with cards like Steppe Lynx, Flagstones, Geopede, PtE, Goblin Guide, and Burn.
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
This post shows that you really don't have any idea wth you're talking about. What happens in RDW when your opponent plays a creature with 4+ toughness? (something that will happen fairly frequently) You have to use two burn spells on it. If you have PTE, you use one spell on it and they get a land. You acknowledge that your creatures are smaller than some of Zoo's, so why would you EVER suggest taking out a spell that can remove their blocker to let you swing through and recommend replacing it with something that won't kill their blocker?
Also, the suggestion that SFM "makes the deck slower but more consistent" shows how little you understand Boros' strategy. By making the deck slower, you are making it less consistent. The reason for that is that Boros plays smaller, but faster, creatures than most other decks. You want to get in as much damage as fast as you can so that you can finish the player off with a burn spell or two. If you take turn two to play SFM and turn three to plop down a burn spell, that allows the other player to play out blockers which will be REALLY annoying for you, such as KoTR, Kitchen Finks, etc, and your chances of being able to utilize your smaller, more aggressive creatures, vanishes.
Lastly, your suggestion that you see Boros as more of a Death and Taxes list splashing red shows that you have no idea how either of the decks work. Death and Taxes tries to control the board state through its creatures and plays out as a midrange control deck. Boros plays out at an aggro deck. It wants to have the opponent dead by turn 4 every game. They use completely different strategies. You could splash red in D+T for bolt, helix and Grim Lavamancer, but that would still be primarily be D+T, it would not be Boros.
Probably the biggest reason to play Boros in Modern (over just playing Zoo, who's frequently just as fast, but has access to larger creatures) is that it can do far less damage to itself with lands than what Zoo does, but it loses very little in the way of speed to do so. If you know you're playing against another aggro deck, you can probably fetch out basics every turn instead of shocks, but in many cases, Zoo will be forced to fetch out a shock on at least its first turn so that it will have all three land types on turn 2 for its Nacatls. Modern's a format where many decks do a large amount of damage to themselves, so if you can play a deck that is extremely aggressive and does a much smaller amount of damage to itself, then you can be at an advantage in races.
This may be so, but, while Boros may retain the speed of Zoo, they lose out on the superior creature quality that Zoo has. And this is why I think Zoo will be a more superior aggro deck than Boros despite the fact that Zoo's mana base is more suicidal. It would be nice if Boros could reliably run board sweep against Zoo like RDW can. But, alas, since Boros' creatures are often times more "permanent" fixtures of the 'field and are a relatively important part of their strategy, they would be at a disadvantage if they were to sweep.
But Zoo is still a better midrange deck than Boros ever will be because it has more relevant creatures in the late game than Boros does. Steppe Lynx and Goblin Guide don't really do much when your opponent has Goyf and KotR and you are running low on fetchlands. Sure you SFM but Zoo can run as well and it actually has threats that are just bigger than Batterskull plus some lists maindeck Pridemage which beats Batterskull on its own. Boros is better off as an aggro deck like its meant to be with cards like Steppe Lynx, Flagstones, Geopede, PtE, Goblin Guide, and Burn.
Well Zoo is so versatile that it's really hard to be "better" than him in any kind of department, as the deck is designed to abuse of the best cards in pretty much all colors (minus blue). As I see it, you can maybe hope to have a better mana base but that's it.
My opinion is maybe biased when I say that RDW is better than Boros but in the end players will play decks, according mostly to what they like to run.
It's like Monoblack decks, it may not be the best deck ever but people will always play that kind of list (Nostalgia factor, or simply because black is uber rock and roll) and sometimes top8 events.
EDIT: Wow, lots of posts since I started to reply. Here's the post that I was mostly responding to when I wrote this:
Concerning RDW, I just meant that I have yet to see a list that splashed White just for PtE or Swords in Legacy so why would that change in modern?
When I say RDW, I almost mean burn. Creature package? Grim, goblin guide hellspark elemental, keldon marauders, etc... Most of them are dealing damages even when sitting on their asses (with the exception of GG, and hellspark but they have haste so...)
You shouldn't worry about "being blocked" you should race them, and if they can block, burn them and finish the job.
When I compared Boros to D+T, it was mostly due to the amount of cards in common they have (if you pack SFM in Boros). I know how D+T's working and Boros felt like a more aggressive version of the deck (minus the board control).
So yeah I don't understand why you would want to play PtE in a RDW like deck, when most of your creatures have haste, are pretty much like burn spells or able to deal damages without attacking. White doesn't add anything relevent to that strategy imo.
If you want to add white, it's better to go the middrange route, which is why I advocated on SFM. Turn 3 Batterskull is almost a reason by itself to play SFM. Otherwise if you wanna play straight aggro, just play Zoo or a regular RDW. Both of them feels much more competitive than "boros".
Keldon Marauders deals two damage if it doesn't get to attack. Two damage for two mana is pathetic, and if that were a spell (the closest I can think of is Kindle), no one would play it. Goblin Guide only does 2 damage if it gets to attack once before it gets blocked by something. It does 0 if they have a blocker the turn you play it. You run creatures in all cases because they can be much more efficient than a burn spell, but they lose that efficiency if they get blocked and killed. Your ability to race is dependent on your creatures actually being able to connect.
Compare a hand with Goblin Guide and Lightning Bolt to one with GG and Path to Exile. If you play the GG and swing then your opponent plays a Goyf/KoTR/other big critter then your GG ends up sitting there having been a shock and you get to bolt the opponent. If the bolt was a path, though, you get to path their blocker and get in again with the GG and potentially get in again after that if they don't play another blocker. AND you don't have to worry about when that creature, who's much bigger than one of your creatures, starts turning sideways against you.
When I compared Boros to D+T, it was mostly due to the amount of cards in common they have (if you pack SFM in Boros). I know how D+T's working and Boros felt like a more aggressive version of the deck (minus the board control).
If you take out the board control from D+T then it is NO LONGER D+T.
People play white in Boros because they get access to Steppe Lynx (who is potentially the most damaging 1 drop in the game aside from stupid shenanigans with Phyrexian Dreadnaught or Death's Shadow or something), Path to Exile (probably the best removal spell for aggro decks), lightning helix (one of the best burn spells ever, which helps a lot in races - it bolts AND negates an opponent's bolt), AND it allows you to have much stronger sideboard options.
Turn three Batterskull is not reason enough to play SFM in an aggro deck because had you been doing more aggressive things with your mana on turns 2 and 3 you could have killed them on turn 3 instead. Isn't just killing the opponent better than having a 4/4 vigilance lifelink creature? Now obviously there are decks where SFM is extremely powerful, but Boros isn't one of them. Boros is an aggro deck and if you don't understand that, you probably shouldn't be posting in this thread.
Well Zoo is so versatile that it's really hard to be "better" than him in any kind of department, as the deck is designed to abuse of the best cards in pretty much all colors (minus blue).
actually in the 1.x format that this one "emulates" there was a 4c zoo that had blue in it mostly for sideboard cards such as meddling mage,echoing truth, and spell pierce. If hypergen doesn't get the ban hammer then this zoo deck will be the aggro deck to play against it.
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The list posted from the GP is still the best. Even the land destruction, at that time for thopter depths, will be relevant here against 12post. I wouldn't change any card of the starting 60.
And SFM is slow here. But there's so many standard newbs that wanna play SFM in everything white... it's hilarious.
The list posted from the GP is still the best. Even the land destruction, at that time for thopter depths, will be relevant here against 12post. I wouldn't change any card of the starting 60.
And SFM is slow here. But there's so many standard newbs that wanna play SFM in everything white... it's hilarious.
Last time I checked Legacy's metagame, SFM was played in Stoneblade variants (Grim-blade, Bant-blade, etc), Pikula, Maverick/Zenith Maverick, regular Bant...
Guess they must be standard noobs as well.
People should try Manaless dredge with SFM, she's so cool in that shell.
Those decks are all mid-range decks and not all out aggro decks though. Many of them also have the luxury of Fow.
And PTE, Steppe Lynx and helix is more than enough reason to splash white into rdw if you also consider that it makes you a lot more resilient to hate. You can sideboard enchantment removal which means you don't autolose to leyline of sanctity as well as gaining access to cards like ethersworn canonist which are good against combo.
Those decks are all mid-range decks and not all out aggro decks though. Many of them also have the luxury of Fow.
And PTE, Steppe Lynx and helix is more than enough reason to splash white into rdw if you also consider that it makes you a lot more resilient to hate. You can sideboard enchantment removal which means you don't autolose to leyline of sanctity as well as gaining access to cards like ethersworn canonist which are good against combo.
If you want to play straight aggro, with PtE, lightning helix and lynx, why choose Boros over Zoo?
If you want to play straight aggro, with PtE, lightning helix and lynx, why choose Boros over Zoo?
Because you don't have to lightning bolt yourself as many times to fix your mana, you're less vulnerable to Moon effects and Boros is probably faster because it plays 4/5's and 5/5's for 1 and 2 mana respectively which can even become 6/7's and 7/7's with Flagstones. Sure Zoo can get draws with multiple Wild Nacatls and burn that are fast hands but at the end of the day Boros is still probably a faster aggro deck than Zoo is but Zoo has an easier time tuning to a metagame by going more aggro (Little Zoo) or going more Midrange (Big Zoo).
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
You can play moon effects and R/W is faster than zoo. Brozek's GP deck could win consistently on turn 4 through removal, sometimes turn 3 and had a great zoo matchup as well. While zoo can't race combo, boros has a chance to.
You can play moon effects and R/W is faster than zoo. Brozek's GP deck could win consistently on turn 4 through removal, sometimes turn 3 and had a great zoo matchup as well. While zoo can't race combo, boros has a chance to.
My experience in Legacy might be why my opinion is biased towards Boros.
I think I'll just have to see how this deck performs with my own eyes.
So yeah, does anyone mind actually posting a deck-list in this thread or what? I'm not really getting sold on Boros since the three cards that everyone keeps throwing around don't seem that great to me. Steppe Lynx eats removal like noone's business. Lightning Helix doesn't seem like it's worth the trouble of running Shocklands and Fetches...
So yeah, does anyone mind actually posting a deck-list in this thread or what? I'm not really getting sold on Boros since the three cards that everyone keeps throwing around don't seem that great to me. Steppe Lynx eats removal like noone's business. Lightning Helix doesn't seem like it's worth the trouble of running Shocklands and Fetches...
The debate is also what's refraining people to post lists, as people are claiming Boros should be aggro or midrange (mostly me LOL). You can also add the SFM debate and here is how we get to a stall.
I would pretty much play Petr Brozek's 60 with a sideboard tuned to the new metagame obviously. The only thing I could see doing is trying to fit in Lavamancer to give the deck a little bit more reach but it already does have quite a bit of reach with 17 burn spells (21 if you count the Shrine).
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On Mono Black in Commander:
Quote from BlackJack68 »
But whomever your commander is, Cabal Coffers is really in charge.
I would pretty much play Petr Brozek's 60 with a sideboard tuned to the new metagame obviously. The only thing I could see doing is trying to fit in Lavamancer to give the deck a little bit more reach but it already does have quite a bit of reach with 17 burn spells (21 if you count the Shrine).
yeah my buddy's list that I posted earlier was based off of the brozek list. he really liked the one of jotun grunt, and the plated geopedes because even against zoo they would trade efficiently. Grunt gave him a way to weaken goyf and KotR while giving him a slightly better game against dredge. I could ask him what he would change now or whatever if anyone is interested.
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Yeah, I think I got some closure on this issue. RDW simply has the means to play with mass removal, which will be relevant against many aggro decks. Boros, however, does not since the deck feels like it has too many "permanent" permanents for mass removal to even be considered.
Yeah, I think I got some closure on this issue. RDW simply has the means to play with mass removal, which will be relevant against many aggro decks. Boros, however, does not since the deck feels like it has too many "permanent" permanents for mass removal to even be considered.
thats sort of the main difference. I could see some boros deck wrecking unprepared metas, but it can't be a tier 1 deck.
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Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.
Boros isn't as easily hated out of the metagame though and also doesn't die to random enchantments like leyline of sanctity. This in itself is enough to splash white. You could still play engineered explosives as mass removal if necessary.
Boros isn't as easily hated out of the metagame though and also doesn't die to random enchantments like leyline of sanctity. This in itself is enough to splash white. You could still play engineered explosives as mass removal if necessary.
yeah, you can board in earthquake against elves which is nice.
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kk, this is a deck i can get behind... i have missed my beloved boros bushwacker since sir ranger of eos rotated out of standard. now i have a reason to throw it back together
(keep in mind i wont be using a whole lot of older cards since most of them were being used before i started to play... i have gone through most of the lists to see what to add to mine but i had a good idea before looking. my land base might be a little shakey but im new to most of the lands... I do like the ghost quarter/flagstones of trokair combo tho)
now obviously my list is ment to go a little later in the game but i would still call it mid-range aggro. now that i can use sacred foundry... koth seems like an absolute MUST HAVE in this list. I mean 9 sources of ult is SOOOO much better than the 4-5 it is/was using in standard. the 3/3 split on geopede and hellspark has always been my favorite... I toyed with 4/2 of each and dropping one or the other but i always ended back at a 3/3 split since the consistancy is better(imo).
I dont like the mass amount of removal some people seem to be packing. if you cant get it there with a 4 of path, bolt and helix... then you are doing something wrong. you dont have to burn EVERY threat.
Jötun Grunt is much better than i was initially thinking it to be and it deserves the 61st spot in my list. (i always run 61 cards... its kinda my thing)
I do want to throw my 2 cents in on the whole stoneforge mystic thing.... if you are already running squadron hawk.... then there is no reason to not make room for mystic/3-5 swords as well, but if your not then there are other options we have availible. i would personally like to find room for the mystic package and hawks but i dont see it happening as of right now.
well that is all i have time for as of now... i will check back in when im not at work lol
i honestly dont think that hellspark and koth belong in the deck, neither does ranger. the format is extremly fast and this list is suited better if it was extended. i think searing blaze is a must. hellspark seems weak agaisnt goyf and nactl. also shrine should be in there as well.
Adventuring Gear can make the hawks into flying non-first strike Geopedes while equipping them to either a geopede or a lynx makes a really big creature really fast.
Elspeth makes lynx/geopede/Figure of Destiny into legit beaters if ever I run out of landfall triggers. The ulti is a bonus.
I decided to not play goblin guide because guide+PTE would just be too much land for the opponent already.
PTE has funny techs with landfall. PTE-ing your own creature to trigger a landfall to pump your guys is fun and something not a lot of people really expect.
Squadron Hawk thins the deck down so you can draw more relevant cards, at the same time he provides beaters to equip adventuring gear with or to give yourself a body after a board wipe.
I decided with just two geopedes because I often found myself using 2 mana to either cast helix, Figure of destiny, squadron hawk or play-equip an adventuring gear instead.
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Concerning RDW, I just meant that I have yet to see a list that splashed White just for PtE or Swords in Legacy so why would that change in modern?
When I say RDW, I almost mean burn. Creature package? Grim, goblin guide hellspark elemental, keldon marauders, etc... Most of them are dealing damages even when sitting on their asses (with the exception of GG, and hellspark but they have haste so...)
You shouldn't worry about "being blocked" you should race them, and if they can block, burn them and finish the job.
When I compared Boros to D+T, it was mostly due to the amount of cards in common they have (if you pack SFM in Boros). I know how D+T's working and Boros felt like a more aggressive version of the deck (minus the board control).
So yeah I don't understand why you would want to play PtE in a RDW like deck, when most of your creatures have haste, are pretty much like burn spells or able to deal damages without attacking. White doesn't add anything relevent to that strategy imo.
If you want to add white, it's better to go the middrange route, which is why I advocated on SFM. Turn 3 Batterskull is almost a reason by itself to play SFM. Otherwise if you wanna play straight aggro, just play Zoo or a regular RDW. Both of them feels much more competitive than "boros".
This may be so, but, while Boros may retain the speed of Zoo, they lose out on the superior creature quality that Zoo has. And this is why I think Zoo will be a more superior aggro deck than Boros despite the fact that Zoo's mana base is more suicidal. It would be nice if Boros could reliably run board sweep against Zoo like RDW can. But, alas, since Boros' creatures are often times more "permanent" fixtures of the 'field and are a relatively important part of their strategy, they would be at a disadvantage if they were to sweep.
Well Zoo is so versatile that it's really hard to be "better" than him in any kind of department, as the deck is designed to abuse of the best cards in pretty much all colors (minus blue). As I see it, you can maybe hope to have a better mana base but that's it.
My opinion is maybe biased when I say that RDW is better than Boros but in the end players will play decks, according mostly to what they like to run.
It's like Monoblack decks, it may not be the best deck ever but people will always play that kind of list (Nostalgia factor, or simply because black is uber rock and roll) and sometimes top8 events.
Keldon Marauders deals two damage if it doesn't get to attack. Two damage for two mana is pathetic, and if that were a spell (the closest I can think of is Kindle), no one would play it. Goblin Guide only does 2 damage if it gets to attack once before it gets blocked by something. It does 0 if they have a blocker the turn you play it. You run creatures in all cases because they can be much more efficient than a burn spell, but they lose that efficiency if they get blocked and killed. Your ability to race is dependent on your creatures actually being able to connect.
Compare a hand with Goblin Guide and Lightning Bolt to one with GG and Path to Exile. If you play the GG and swing then your opponent plays a Goyf/KoTR/other big critter then your GG ends up sitting there having been a shock and you get to bolt the opponent. If the bolt was a path, though, you get to path their blocker and get in again with the GG and potentially get in again after that if they don't play another blocker. AND you don't have to worry about when that creature, who's much bigger than one of your creatures, starts turning sideways against you.
If you take out the board control from D+T then it is NO LONGER D+T.
People play white in Boros because they get access to Steppe Lynx (who is potentially the most damaging 1 drop in the game aside from stupid shenanigans with Phyrexian Dreadnaught or Death's Shadow or something), Path to Exile (probably the best removal spell for aggro decks), lightning helix (one of the best burn spells ever, which helps a lot in races - it bolts AND negates an opponent's bolt), AND it allows you to have much stronger sideboard options.
Turn three Batterskull is not reason enough to play SFM in an aggro deck because had you been doing more aggressive things with your mana on turns 2 and 3 you could have killed them on turn 3 instead. Isn't just killing the opponent better than having a 4/4 vigilance lifelink creature? Now obviously there are decks where SFM is extremely powerful, but Boros isn't one of them. Boros is an aggro deck and if you don't understand that, you probably shouldn't be posting in this thread.
actually in the 1.x format that this one "emulates" there was a 4c zoo that had blue in it mostly for sideboard cards such as meddling mage,echoing truth, and spell pierce. If hypergen doesn't get the ban hammer then this zoo deck will be the aggro deck to play against it.
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And SFM is slow here. But there's so many standard newbs that wanna play SFM in everything white... it's hilarious.
Last time I checked Legacy's metagame, SFM was played in Stoneblade variants (Grim-blade, Bant-blade, etc), Pikula, Maverick/Zenith Maverick, regular Bant...
Guess they must be standard noobs as well.
People should try Manaless dredge with SFM, she's so cool in that shell.
And PTE, Steppe Lynx and helix is more than enough reason to splash white into rdw if you also consider that it makes you a lot more resilient to hate. You can sideboard enchantment removal which means you don't autolose to leyline of sanctity as well as gaining access to cards like ethersworn canonist which are good against combo.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
If you want to play straight aggro, with PtE, lightning helix and lynx, why choose Boros over Zoo?
Because you don't have to lightning bolt yourself as many times to fix your mana, you're less vulnerable to Moon effects and Boros is probably faster because it plays 4/5's and 5/5's for 1 and 2 mana respectively which can even become 6/7's and 7/7's with Flagstones. Sure Zoo can get draws with multiple Wild Nacatls and burn that are fast hands but at the end of the day Boros is still probably a faster aggro deck than Zoo is but Zoo has an easier time tuning to a metagame by going more aggro (Little Zoo) or going more Midrange (Big Zoo).
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
My experience in Legacy might be why my opinion is biased towards Boros.
I think I'll just have to see how this deck performs with my own eyes.
The debate is also what's refraining people to post lists, as people are claiming Boros should be aggro or midrange (mostly me LOL). You can also add the SFM debate and here is how we get to a stall.
4 Goblin Guide
4 Plated Geopede
4 Steppe Lynx
Instant
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Magma Jet
3 Path to Exile
4 Searing Blaze
3 Shard Volley
4 Zektar Shrine Expedition
Land
4 Arid Mesa
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Mountain
1 Plains
3 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
I would pretty much play Petr Brozek's 60 with a sideboard tuned to the new metagame obviously. The only thing I could see doing is trying to fit in Lavamancer to give the deck a little bit more reach but it already does have quite a bit of reach with 17 burn spells (21 if you count the Shrine).
yeah my buddy's list that I posted earlier was based off of the brozek list. he really liked the one of jotun grunt, and the plated geopedes because even against zoo they would trade efficiently. Grunt gave him a way to weaken goyf and KotR while giving him a slightly better game against dredge. I could ask him what he would change now or whatever if anyone is interested.
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thats sort of the main difference. I could see some boros deck wrecking unprepared metas, but it can't be a tier 1 deck.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
yeah, you can board in earthquake against elves which is nice.
Albert Einstein
Thomas Jefferson
(keep in mind i wont be using a whole lot of older cards since most of them were being used before i started to play... i have gone through most of the lists to see what to add to mine but i had a good idea before looking. my land base might be a little shakey but im new to most of the lands... I do like the ghost quarter/flagstones of trokair combo tho)
2 Koth of the Hammer
Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Steppe Lynx
3 Plated Geopede
2 Goblin Bushwacker
3 Ranger of Eos
3 Hellspark Elemental
1 Jötun Grunt
2 Figure of Destiny
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
Land
4 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Marsh Flats
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Ghost Quarter
5 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Sacred Foundry
now obviously my list is ment to go a little later in the game but i would still call it mid-range aggro. now that i can use sacred foundry... koth seems like an absolute MUST HAVE in this list. I mean 9 sources of ult is SOOOO much better than the 4-5 it is/was using in standard. the 3/3 split on geopede and hellspark has always been my favorite... I toyed with 4/2 of each and dropping one or the other but i always ended back at a 3/3 split since the consistancy is better(imo).
I dont like the mass amount of removal some people seem to be packing. if you cant get it there with a 4 of path, bolt and helix... then you are doing something wrong. you dont have to burn EVERY threat.
Jötun Grunt is much better than i was initially thinking it to be and it deserves the 61st spot in my list. (i always run 61 cards... its kinda my thing)
I do want to throw my 2 cents in on the whole stoneforge mystic thing.... if you are already running squadron hawk.... then there is no reason to not make room for mystic/3-5 swords as well, but if your not then there are other options we have availible. i would personally like to find room for the mystic package and hawks but i dont see it happening as of right now.
well that is all i have time for as of now... i will check back in when im not at work lol
RR(P/U)Big Red(P/U)RR 24-8-2 (un-retired)
RWR BorosRWR 21-7 (retired)
Modern Lists:
Boros
Kithkin
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=380755
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=380755
I really liked the landfall mechanic from zendikar and I decided to try and play with it a bit in this deck.
4 Figure of Destiny
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Steppe Lynx
4 Squadron Hawk
2 Plated geopede
4 Adventuring Gear
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Arid Mesa
4 Marsh Flats
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Ghostquarter
5 Mountain
5 Plains
Adventuring Gear can make the hawks into flying non-first strike Geopedes while equipping them to either a geopede or a lynx makes a really big creature really fast.
Elspeth makes lynx/geopede/Figure of Destiny into legit beaters if ever I run out of landfall triggers. The ulti is a bonus.
I decided to not play goblin guide because guide+PTE would just be too much land for the opponent already.
PTE has funny techs with landfall. PTE-ing your own creature to trigger a landfall to pump your guys is fun and something not a lot of people really expect.
Squadron Hawk thins the deck down so you can draw more relevant cards, at the same time he provides beaters to equip adventuring gear with or to give yourself a body after a board wipe.
I decided with just two geopedes because I often found myself using 2 mana to either cast helix, Figure of destiny, squadron hawk or play-equip an adventuring gear instead.