I've been following this for a while, got me to build a few pauper decks of my own, and the strip mine rarity has been bugging me. Where is that printed as common? That aside I love the deck, almost built it myself but wanted something a little different.
I didn't want to be a buzzkill but Strip Mine's lowest rarity is uncommon U1.
Any alternatives to that?
And, how does this deck fare in multiplayer?
Sure, according to Gatherer. Dig a little deeper, though, and you'll see the secret WotC wants to hide! Well, not exactly, but one of the versions of Strip Mine in Antiquities was printed on the common sheet (with a "C1" rarity) and was considered a common by Wizards. Here's a quote from one of the guys over at PDCMagic.com, the go-to internet hub for pauper players:
Quote from Ufactor, »
There seems to be an ongoing discrepency about card rarity as it pertains to alternate formats. At first, Wizards was the ultimate authority on how their own cards were printed. Crystal Keep, as probably the second oldest existing M:tG site, was completely synchronous with it's listings. Wizards then "updated" their site to homogenize their listings, so that all sets containing U1, U2, U3 , U4, etc. would now be listed as Common, Uncommon, or Rare.
This is where the lines blurred, in so much that cards that were previously considered Common and Uncommon were bumped up one category. The original listings and the current ones no longer match. What's more is that the set rarities that were altered are the ones that have very small print runs, and are extremely old, making them hard to obtain in real life (no matter what rarity they were orginally printed).
So for this reason, when you are playing paper commons (NOT Peasant) it's a house rule. Whatever gaming store or friends house you go to, needs to make a sound decision.
In any case, I don't play Strip Mine any more; it was just a tad too much of a stretch on the manabase. I still have Wrecking Ball to pull LD duty when I need it, though!
Pretty much all of the input and reviews on this deck have been in a multiplayer context unless we explicitly said otherwise. Short answer: Pretty good! Short, grammatically correct answer: Quite well!
Quote from atratus »
I played this deck last night and had a blast. It was a 4-way and lasted for 5 hours. I was the first to go but of all things I got milled to death! I encountered the same thing as the previous poster. Like him, I used Alara to wipe the board at least 6 times and no one seemed to care that I would bring Alara back in. What would be nice is to find a common card to fold my graveyard back into my library. I blundered a few times by forgetting to flashback cards from my graveyard. It think if I hadn't made that mistake I could have cleaned up and won. One of the players was the ten-minute turn type who basically plays with himself by twiddling his own cards all over the place with ridiculous mana and creature loops. Oh well, but still, it was a really fun deck to play and I will definitely play it more to get used to all that it seems to be capable of.
Edit:
I just found these.
Fold in your graveyard anytime with this:
Feldon's Cane
Or wait until your library gets really low and play this:
Paradigm Shift
Funny enough, I lost to decking once. I also felt that if I played tighter Magic, it wouldn't have happened, so I'm not too worried about it in the future. In case you're wondering, a guy was hitting me with some dude equipped with Sword of Body and Mind, and I was letting him do it because it was ridiculous card advantage for me. Guess I got greedy.
I've been following this for a while, got me to build a few pauper decks of my own, and the strip mine rarity has been bugging me. Where is that printed as common? That aside I love the deck, almost built it myself but wanted something a little different.
I can't find the old Antiquities collector's checklist (Wizards has obviously updated their site), but here's a similar one from crystalkeep:
You can see that one version of Strip Mine was printed at the C1 rarity. C1 is obviously counted as an uncommon at the top of that checklist, but it didn't used to be that way. It really depends on your playgroup or TO.
Got any sweet pauper tech worth sharing?
Quote from cag08055 »
totally meant Worldly Counsel had been working on a Verdeloth deck and had mono-green on the brain.
I would definitely play Impulse first, because I often rely on nonbasics and artifacts to fix my mana through the early- and mid-game. That said, it's totally a valid inclusion -- instant speed card selection is great.
Quote from Overheat »
I played the list in the OP in a three player game and won.
My observations-
It really was hard to believe, but some decks just fold to repeated boardwipes. Child died and wrathed the board about 10 times over the course of the game, and no one wanted to kill him at all.
I pretty much agree with everything you said in your post. I almost wish Dimir Machinations was a common.
In my humble few games played with my deck, I chose Glissa, the Traitor, it's hard to say if I've found anything truly useful yet, especially since I don't have all the cards I want. I can say that even with a 3CmC general after a few exiles things get rough for the deck, and having only green and black means I have no reliable way to deal with a tuck except put my head down and cry.
Something I noticed you don't run that has been amazing every time I see it is Reclaim, basically Regrowth for the common man. After seeing your list and breaking mine down to just two colors I'm feeling the hurt, five color might be the best way to go, child or not, for pauper EDH. I'm wanting to get a few more games in this Sunday, might have more to add then. Also, I don't have anyone else building pauper EDH, so all my action is against the real deal full strength decks...but it doesn't sound like I'm alone.
Indeed Paradigm Shift is a rare. Not sure how I overlooked that. You mentioned that you no longer played Strip Mine, what are you using in it's place? I was thinking of putting Feldon's Cane in to counter the milling or another Mountain perhaps since there's only one in the deck. What do you think?
P.S. Great band. I'm a big fan of Porcupine Tree myself...
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
In my humble few games played with my deck, I chose Glissa, the Traitor, it's hard to say if I've found anything truly useful yet, especially since I don't have all the cards I want. I can say that even with a 3CmC general after a few exiles things get rough for the deck, and having only green and black means I have no reliable way to deal with a tuck except put my head down and cry.
Something I noticed you don't run that has been amazing every time I see it is Reclaim, basically Regrowth for the common man. After seeing your list and breaking mine down to just two colors I'm feeling the hurt, five color might be the best way to go, child or not, for pauper EDH. I'm wanting to get a few more games in this Sunday, might have more to add then. Also, I don't have anyone else building pauper EDH, so all my action is against the real deal full strength decks...but it doesn't sound like I'm alone.
You raise some interesting points. Reclaim is definitely a candidate for this deck that I plan on testing in the future, probably in the slot of Dispeller's Capsule. The only reason it won't get done sooner is that I recently moved to another town to start working a new job, and unfortunately I haven't found a good EDH crowd yet -- I could playtest online I suppose, but I usually like to take the local metagame into consideration when building my decks. Still, Reclaim looks pretty good and has been great in some other pauper decks I've thrown together.
You're right about 5-color, too. Mono-color decks, especially mono white and mono red, are incredibly difficult to build. I usually have to start dipping into subpar cards to round out the final 99, and allowing more colors helps keep that from happening. My 2-color decks seem okay in that regard I guess, but I'm betting 3-color is the threshold -- we'll put that to the test when I finish my next pauper deck, which will most likely be Zur, the Enchanter or Doran, the Siege Tower.
Indeed Paradigm Shift is a rare. Not sure how I overlooked that. You mentioned that you no longer played Strip Mine, what are you using in it's place? I was thinking of putting Feldon's Cane in to counter the milling or another Mountain perhaps since there's only one in the deck. What do you think?
P.S. Great band. I'm a big fan of Porcupine Tree myself...
...
Also, what's the big deal with Mulldrifter? So it's a draw card play which you later fish (no pun) out of your graveyard. Am I missing something else?
I still play a land in the Strip Mine slot. At the moment, that land is the Forest I cut to make room for Strip Mine, but feel free to add whatever you want. Thanks to Tilling Treefolk, nonbasics, and a variety of artifact mana, I haven't had the problem of being locked out of one of my colors, though I suppose it could happen.
However, like Pain said, Sundering Titan is a huge blowout if it hits play, as are Obliterate and Decree of Annihilation. Do everything you can to stop mass LD from happening, because establishing a big manabase is crucial. My lands are split about 50/50 between basics and nonbasics, so that gives me the ability to play through Back to Basics and Sundering Titan to some extent, but they still really hurt if they resolve.
On Mulldrifter: Mulldrifter is one of the best common creatures (heck, one of the best common spells) ever printed. It is a defining card of the Pauper format and has spawned several archetypes since its printing. Magic is a game of options, and Mulldrifter gives you tons of good options. Cast at 3 mana, it's a Divination, which is fine. Cast at 5 mana, it's 3-for-1 card advantage and has the ability to attack through lots of stuff or block almost every creature ever printed. It is a creature that is easily abused or recurred for significant advantage (see the "Parlor Tricks" or "GrimDrifter" archetypes), and to top it all off it is easily splashable and has great art. The smiling, flying rainbow fish is awesome.
Sorry for dragging this slightly off track, but these are worth sharing.
Quote from Shishizaru »
Just wanted to come in and say, I LOVE your choice of basic lands, d0su.
Why thank you, sir! I actually thought this one through a lot:
1. I prefer old border foils to the new ones, especially when it comes to artifacts and lands;
2. I started really getting into Magic around Masques Block, so they have some nostalgic value;
3. These Arena promos are abundant and cost the same as the equivalent regular MM foils, so I can buy them for cheap and still say I have a (largely) "promo foil" manabase.
If I had a choice, I'd want the foil Urza's Saga Arena promos, but those are $2.50 to $3.00 a pop. Not worth it. MM foils are pretty enough.
Quote from TheEndIsNear »
Wow, I just wanted to see what was going in a thread with so many views, come the OP: HERES A COOL DECK YOU ALREADY OWN AT 90%!
I'm totaly making it!
Sweet, mission accomplished! I post decks here to have them critiqued and to share my ideas with others, so I'm pretty stoked that this turned out as well as it did. It has only gone this far because of the helpful input all of you have provided.
@Dmm225 -- Zephyr259 said it all. Thanks, Zephyr! Good luck on your pauper endeavor.
I played a few more games with the deck, and after that I made a few changes, mainly to shore up the shaky mana situation.
First thing is that I replaced Trinket Mage with Sylvan Ranger and replaced all the artifact lands with the appropriate basics. I noticed that I only used Trinket Mage to get lands so I chopped off a mana and make it easier to leave up Counterspell/Muddle the Mixture. This also keeps these lands safe from Deed/Disk/Krosan Grip, which is quite important when you need Child to live and only have one red source.
Second is that I replaced the Cycling lands with more basics. The ability to use Cultivate to get a red or white source after your first two have been blown up is very important in my eyes. It also makes Far Wanderings much better late game, able to ramp me even more.
This deck has a very hard time against Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. He blows up a land when they cast him and is nigh unkillable.
I switched out Terminate for Unmake in order to deal with him, and Unmake is easier to transmute for.
Rolling Thunder's double red mana cost is just too prohibitive. Once people see that you plan on recurring it to win, they attack your mountains with a vengeance. I only used it as a Blaze, really, so for now it is being replaced with good, old Fireball.
I also put in Red Elemental Blast to better deal with Blue decks and to give the deck some raw power that it lacks in comparison to regular decks. The ability to kill Child is also great. Thank you whoever first suggested it.
This deck really can do anything it wants against any deck without counterspells. Mnemonic Wall+Death Denied lets you block forever and use all the ETB abilities of the creatures in your graveyard.
Finally, I think that this deck would really benefit from Foresee to help find the recursion pieces.
About Reclaim:
Really if you're going to consider Reclaim, wouldn't Elven Cache be better? I mean sure if you need to recur something incredibly early, you probably won't have the mana to play Cache and use the spell you get... but the rest of the time you get the card immediately instead of having to wait a turn, or engineer a card draw.
Personally I've been running it for awhile to recur combo pieces (enchantments specifically), and I find it's versatility quite useful. That being said, I might also stuff Reclaim in the deck, though obviously not over Cache.
Changes I've made recently:
I've switched the basics in the deck for their snow counterparts so that I can run Skred which pretty much reads one red, instant, kill target creature.
Also I've traded out Diabolic Edict for Pyroblast. The reason being that I only ever seem to use Edict on myself to kill Child, where in group games it really doesn't do anything else besides trade with their worst guy. At least Pyroblast has the option of dealing with the most obnoxious (and best color) in EDH. Obviously I'm already running Red Elemental Blast.
Also while it hasn't really come up yet in games (since I already seem to draw more cards than I can ever use), I'm running Impaler Shrike over Moriok Replica... I figure I'd prefer not to pay life to draw cards in the deck, especially given stuff like Crypt Rats to think of (or the overwhelming ball of hate people are starting to develop for this deck in one of my metas). Potentially you net more cards off an activation, it can even act as a better finisher than Replica, and doesn't require the life. However it's drawbacks are that it's more blue intensive (not really a problem), and of course you must hit somebody to get your cards... so it requires a turn. Still figured I'd give it a try... Also as a bonus, Clique players have to counter it since it blocks Clique and irritating them is often a good extra reason to run stuff (looks at Skred, Pyroblast, and Red Elemental Blast).
Second is that I replaced the Cycling lands with more basics. The ability to use Cultivate to get a red or white source after your first two have been blown up is very important in my eyes. It also makes Far Wanderings much better late game, able to ramp me even more.
I've been up in the air on the Cycling lands for awhile, I move them in and out of the deck. At the best of times, they net me a couple cards mid/late game.... At the worst of times, they pollute my opening hand setting me back turns. Mostly whether or not I play them depends on the value of Tilling Treefolk, lately my meta has been full of LD so he's back in... If they run less, I'll probably cut him again, along with his buddy buddy cycle lands.
This deck has a very hard time against Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. He blows up a land when they cast him and is nigh unkillable.
I switched out Terminate for Unmake in order to deal with him, and Unmake is easier to transmute for.
My current plan against Ulamog is counter/bounce/Freed from the Reel (though I'd prefer to not use that on him). Still I've been eying Unmake as well though my biggest problem with it has been that it can't be used to kill Child. Which I kind of prefer all my kill spells be able to do.
Rolling Thunder's double red mana cost is just too prohibitive. Once people see that you plan on recurring it to win, they attack your mountains with a vengeance. I only used it as a Blaze, really, so for now it is being replaced with good, old Fireball.
The thing about Rolling Thunder is that we've got potentially two Transmute cards at 2cc, so it's a lot easier to get over Fireball. Then again I run more red than everybody else I think, so double red isn't a problem, also I like to transmute for it for the combo kill. Still I could see if you run less cutting it to just Fireball, not like we don't draw an army of cards already to find it.
I thought about using Doran, the Siege Tower for the color wedge (which is my favorite) and the fact that it's easy to find common creatures with a big back end, it makes finishing the game a little easier with the creature lineup you'll have to build with.
I found out yesterday that Fireball had the problem that it could not be tutored for. I had to dig down till I had about 15 cards in my library till I found it and won. It may not be that big of a deal, since I had the game under complete control, since I was the only one who was not in topdeck mode, but Rolling Thunder may be better just so that I can find my win condition more quickly if there is actually pressure to win the game fast. OF course, I could just run Dizzy Spell and call it a day, so maybe that is worth considering.
Running Skred seems like a good idea. Right now I have half snow covered and half regular lands in order to not be completely blown out by Wake of Destruction on my Islands/Forests. The ability to run Skred seems better than that tiny benefit, however.
I disagree with Imapler Shrike. Moriok Replica draws cards now, while Shrike draws them sometime in the future..ish. When you are digging for a certain card, I prefer the ability to draw with Replica as soon as I can play him, so I can start the process of recurring him more quickly. Also, double blue is a lot for me since I like to leave up a counterspell whenever I can, and reaver can be paid with your least needed colors and only needs one black in the process. With the life issue, do you run Overrule in your list? I use it as a late game life burst while also countering whatever seems to be the biggest threat in that turn cycle.
About Dizzy Spell:
The thing about Dizzy Spell is that there are very few 1cc cards I'd want to spend 1UU getting. That's really the only reason I've never added it, though I keep looking sideways at it as I toss in more 1cc stuff like Skred.
About Impaler Shrike:
As for Impaler.... yeah, I didn't think it would be great, I just like to try out things because you never know, and otherwise the deck gets boring. That being said, Moriok Replica has been on the chopping block for awhile... he's just well, not very good. So if anything, I'll likely just ditch both and free up the slot for a real card.
About Overrule:
As for Overrule, yeah I've been testing it every since d0su mentioned it. Biggest problem is... it really only seems to be gaining me life, when I've already stabilized in the late game... at which point I don't need it. But early game it just costs too much, people in my play group tend to develop their manabases too much for it reliably counter things, or it gains so little life... that it was pretty inconsequential. At least that's what I've found.
About Dizzy Spell:
The thing about Dizzy Spell is that there are very few 1cc cards I'd want to spend 1UU getting. That's really the only reason I've never added it, though I keep looking sideways at it as I toss in more 1cc stuff like Skred.
About Impaler Shrike:
As for Impaler.... yeah, I didn't think it would be great, I just like to try out things because you never know, and otherwise the deck gets boring. That being said, Moriok Replica has been on the chopping block for awhile... he's just well, not very good. So if anything, I'll likely just ditch both and free up the slot for a real card.
About Overrule:
As for Overrule, yeah I've been testing it every since d0su mentioned it. Biggest problem is... it really only seems to be gaining me life, when I've already stabilized in the late game... at which point I don't need it. But early game it just costs too much, people in my play group tend to develop their manabases too much for it reliably counter things, or it gains so little life... that it was pretty inconsequential. At least that's what I've found.
Agreed on Dizzy Spell and Impaler Shrike, though Moriok Replica has been more than fine to me so far. I will be the first to admit that Overrule can be a little clunky. However, it was added with the intention of using it like you described: to pad your life total in the late game and recover from the early beats, lest your Crypt Rats become unusable or an uncounterable Banefire knock you out of the game. LittlestMorte and I were brainstorming for lifegain cards back on Page 5, and I went with Overrule because it was the most widely useful for things other than gaining life, so you can check that out if you still think you need a lifegain slot.
As for Reclaim vs. Elven Cache, I would choose Reclaim because it's an instant and therefore tutorable via any of the tutor chains that lead to Mystical Teachings. Otherwise, yeah, I'd totally agree with you there as well.
I'm going to have to reassess Diabolic Edict. It is my primary tool for dealing with indestructible guys that slip through countermagic, but like you said, Unmake can fill that role. Unmake doesn't kill Child of Alara, so another destruction spell (like REB) would have to work its way into here as well.
Skred is difficult to accomodate. My mana base is split between basics and nonbasics, so even if I get a full set of foil snow-covered lands, it might be too underwhelming. Skred would be auto-include in other decks, though.
Hopefully I will find an EDH playgroup soon. I'm falling way behind on my dreamcrushing quota, and Cockatrice is getting less and less appealing for social Magic.
You didn't by any chance end up moving the Portland area (where I am now) or Northern California (where I'll be in a month)? If so I can suggest some EDH groups, if not er.. well, yeah not so much.
Also as for Skred, I'd say just count the number of basics you have in play at any time you'd want to kill something. You'd be amazed how much Skred does to creatures. I mean just check out my current list,
(Pardon Cockatrice's horrible sorting when copying the to clipboard)
I'm pretty spread out between basics/non basics as well at the moment with sort of a conglomeration of yours and LittlestMorte's manabases... Yet even if I drop child on turn 5, by then it already does 3-5 damage most of the time, it really doesn't take many lands to be good, late game it will often clock things for 15+ damage, if only it hit players.
Also my meta has shifted towards a lot of graveyard recursion, and token crap.... so if you're wondering why Swirling Sandstorm is in there as well as Crypt Rats... to answer the tokens. Also we've actually got a minor pauper EDH meta going as well, and since Dralnu, Lich Lord (who is a very obnoxious Pauper General might I add) is seeing play... it's twice the funny against that as well. Kill your board, except Dralnu... now sac 5 permanents... Good times. Still obviously a meta dependent choice.
I've also included Reap And Sow as my anti graveyard card since I cut Trinket Mage ages ago and with graveyard recursion on the rise I figured an extra slot to hose them would be nice. Obviously I fish out Bojuka Bog with it, and if I feel like kicking it I can also destroy Volrath's Stronghold or Academy Ruins as well. On top of that it can even act as a mana fixer if I really need one.
As for the whole Moriok Replica thing, I find the Rush of Knowledge chain loads my hand so much, I just never want to recur the Replica. Though with all this discussion of Reclaim, I think I'll try it in the slot. At the very least it sounds interesting.
Twisted Abomination is a creature when you want it and a swamp when you don't. He can cycle early game, and when you get enough mana, you can bring him back to cycle again or to play as a decent creature.
Sanctum Gargoyle allows you to return Moriok Relpica, Prophetic Prism, & Darksteel Ingot. Additionally Gargoyle is a little bigger creature with evasion.
I imagine the other cards are simply a matter of preference. I've played a few games with the deck & really haven't come across anything that isn't pulling its weight.
I am going to enter this deck into a four week league, so I can get some serious results and testing done with it.
First, having played in this league before, 75% of the decks have blue, so I think Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast are easy inclusions.
Second, they ban infinite combos and LD that is solely to get people off mana. This covers a huge weakness that the deck has, namely that I have to keep red available in order to burn out everyone else, and need WUBRG throughout the game in order to cast Child.
Third, I think this deck needs more draw power. Stuff like Foresee and Sign in Blood let us get our recursion pieces more easily than we otherwise could.
The Omnath player started by saying how his deck regularly gets 100 mana in his mana pool, and he started by playing various stuff that added mana to his pool and such, but since he was so open about how we were going to lose and that he would definately not win nicest player, we 3v1ed him till he had no board presence or cards in hand.
The Wrexial player had gotten Primeval Titan with desertion from the Omnath guy, and was going crazy. The game was pretty much over since he was swinging at Damia with Wrexial to get Knowledge Exploitation for Time Warp, then Time Warp itself. He eventually played Myojin of Night's Reach, countered Disturbed Burial for Child and we thrashed around for a few turns since scooping loses points in our league.
The second game was much better though. I was against the same Wrexial player, and there was a mostly precon Kaalia of the Vast and a Rafiq of the Many.
The Rafiq player blazed out of the gates swinging with him turn 4 and attacking Wrexial. The Wrexial deck was based around playing the opponents spells, so he had to attack Rafiq to get anything worth playing at all. They fought it out for several turns while I ramped and got stocked removal, and Kaalia did nothing too serious. Wrexial eventually resolved Recurring Insight and had a 30 card hand after taking 2 extra turns. Kaalia cheated in Mana-Charged Dragon and suddenly the rest of us realized that whoever it swung at would die. Wrexial passed the turn with three mana up when Rafiq told me that if I could get him to tap out, he would kill him on his turn. I played Child from my hand and Mind Extracted Wrexial.... which resolved. Rafiq player played his general and passed, then Kaalia played Bladewing, the Risen to get back Mana-Charged Dragon. He then killed Wrexial thanks to the Anger in his Graveyard and passed.
Rafiq was surely going to come after me next, so I played Cadaver Imp, bringing back Child, then cast Far Wanderings and Kodama's Reach. He cast Rite of Replication unkicked on Mana-Charged Dragon, but still died to a Kaalia next turn.
Then it was 1v1, and he scooped several turns later to Child+Disturbed Burial.
Good: Far Wanderings-This is a beating and a half and pretty much is considered uncuttable at this point. It can fix your mana early, but casting late lets you actually do full loops of killing and rezing Child every turn. Faerie Trickery-For being the only counterspell that I played all day. This deck may need a few more counters, since what we have just seems to be slightly to little. Dizzy Spell-For finding Fireball, and the Blasts.
Bad: Unmake:Really hard to leave mana up for this and Diabolic Edict or somesuch. Yet, it does solve the indestructible problem, because relying on Edict to kill Ulamog is sketchy at best. Revoke Existence-for never being useful. I Preordained/Sea Gate Oracled this to the bottom twice, while never casting it and never being happy to draw it.
Next week, I know that I am going to take out Revoke Existence for Anarchist, as a worse Chronarch/Wall.
EDIT:I just saw Vedalken Æthermage is common and I think that it is too cute of an interaction for words. I may try to squeeze him in there somewhere, and if I do, then I will also put Scrivener in also.
UWGrand Arbiter Augustin IV-Last edit 12/02/11
RStarke of Rath - Last edit 11/30/11
GAzusa, Lost but Seeking - Last Edit 11/29/11
BPatron of the Nezumi - Last edit 11/29/11
Sure, according to Gatherer. Dig a little deeper, though, and you'll see the secret WotC wants to hide! Well, not exactly, but one of the versions of Strip Mine in Antiquities was printed on the common sheet (with a "C1" rarity) and was considered a common by Wizards. Here's a quote from one of the guys over at PDCMagic.com, the go-to internet hub for pauper players:
In any case, I don't play Strip Mine any more; it was just a tad too much of a stretch on the manabase. I still have Wrecking Ball to pull LD duty when I need it, though!
Pretty much all of the input and reviews on this deck have been in a multiplayer context unless we explicitly said otherwise. Short answer: Pretty good! Short, grammatically correct answer: Quite well!
Funny enough, I lost to decking once. I also felt that if I played tighter Magic, it wouldn't have happened, so I'm not too worried about it in the future. In case you're wondering, a guy was hitting me with some dude equipped with Sword of Body and Mind, and I was letting him do it because it was ridiculous card advantage for me. Guess I got greedy.
I don't think we really need graveyard protection besides skillful play and countermagic, and Paradigm Shift is a rare, unfortunately. HOWEVER, Paradigm Shift is also a freaking delicious song by Liquid Tension Experiement, so that makes it okay.
I can't find the old Antiquities collector's checklist (Wizards has obviously updated their site), but here's a similar one from crystalkeep:
http://www.crystalkeep.com/magic/lists/files/list-aq.pdf
You can see that one version of Strip Mine was printed at the C1 rarity. C1 is obviously counted as an uncommon at the top of that checklist, but it didn't used to be that way. It really depends on your playgroup or TO.
Got any sweet pauper tech worth sharing?
I would definitely play Impulse first, because I often rely on nonbasics and artifacts to fix my mana through the early- and mid-game. That said, it's totally a valid inclusion -- instant speed card selection is great.
I pretty much agree with everything you said in your post. I almost wish Dimir Machinations was a common.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
Something I noticed you don't run that has been amazing every time I see it is Reclaim, basically Regrowth for the common man. After seeing your list and breaking mine down to just two colors I'm feeling the hurt, five color might be the best way to go, child or not, for pauper EDH. I'm wanting to get a few more games in this Sunday, might have more to add then. Also, I don't have anyone else building pauper EDH, so all my action is against the real deal full strength decks...but it doesn't sound like I'm alone.
UWGrand Arbiter Augustin IV-Last edit 12/02/11
RStarke of Rath - Last edit 11/30/11
GAzusa, Lost but Seeking - Last Edit 11/29/11
BPatron of the Nezumi - Last edit 11/29/11
P.S. Great band. I'm a big fan of Porcupine Tree myself...
The only problem I've encountered is damn Sundering Titan. He blows you out so quick its not even fair. ;_____;
P.S. Oh, and it flies...so what...
Experimental Kraj
Any other general and Manalith should be awesome though.
I'm in the process of building a similar deck as I was starting to get a bit stuck for inspiration for a new deck and going pauper looks fun.
Thread Cubetutor
My Other Cubes
Pauper Cube
One-Drop Cube
I'm totaly making it!
You raise some interesting points. Reclaim is definitely a candidate for this deck that I plan on testing in the future, probably in the slot of Dispeller's Capsule. The only reason it won't get done sooner is that I recently moved to another town to start working a new job, and unfortunately I haven't found a good EDH crowd yet -- I could playtest online I suppose, but I usually like to take the local metagame into consideration when building my decks. Still, Reclaim looks pretty good and has been great in some other pauper decks I've thrown together.
You're right about 5-color, too. Mono-color decks, especially mono white and mono red, are incredibly difficult to build. I usually have to start dipping into subpar cards to round out the final 99, and allowing more colors helps keep that from happening. My 2-color decks seem okay in that regard I guess, but I'm betting 3-color is the threshold -- we'll put that to the test when I finish my next pauper deck, which will most likely be Zur, the Enchanter or Doran, the Siege Tower.
I still play a land in the Strip Mine slot. At the moment, that land is the Forest I cut to make room for Strip Mine, but feel free to add whatever you want. Thanks to Tilling Treefolk, nonbasics, and a variety of artifact mana, I haven't had the problem of being locked out of one of my colors, though I suppose it could happen.
However, like Pain said, Sundering Titan is a huge blowout if it hits play, as are Obliterate and Decree of Annihilation. Do everything you can to stop mass LD from happening, because establishing a big manabase is crucial. My lands are split about 50/50 between basics and nonbasics, so that gives me the ability to play through Back to Basics and Sundering Titan to some extent, but they still really hurt if they resolve.
On Mulldrifter: Mulldrifter is one of the best common creatures (heck, one of the best common spells) ever printed. It is a defining card of the Pauper format and has spawned several archetypes since its printing. Magic is a game of options, and Mulldrifter gives you tons of good options. Cast at 3 mana, it's a Divination, which is fine. Cast at 5 mana, it's 3-for-1 card advantage and has the ability to attack through lots of stuff or block almost every creature ever printed. It is a creature that is easily abused or recurred for significant advantage (see the "Parlor Tricks" or "GrimDrifter" archetypes), and to top it all off it is easily splashable and has great art. The smiling, flying rainbow fish is awesome.
On Porcupine Tree: always great to meet another PT fan! I play drums whenever I can, and Gavin Harrison is certainly my biggest inspiration in that regard. While I'm sharing only tangentially related links with you folks, if you aren't a GH fan already, here are three reasons why you should be:
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95QS3c_Tei4#t=6m12s
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKCIUpW3q9s#t=3m15s
3.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X81qq6Fi3G4#t=1m12s
Sorry for dragging this slightly off track, but these are worth sharing.
Why thank you, sir! I actually thought this one through a lot:
1. I prefer old border foils to the new ones, especially when it comes to artifacts and lands;
2. I started really getting into Magic around Masques Block, so they have some nostalgic value;
3. These Arena promos are abundant and cost the same as the equivalent regular MM foils, so I can buy them for cheap and still say I have a (largely) "promo foil" manabase.
If I had a choice, I'd want the foil Urza's Saga Arena promos, but those are $2.50 to $3.00 a pop. Not worth it. MM foils are pretty enough.
Sweet, mission accomplished! I post decks here to have them critiqued and to share my ideas with others, so I'm pretty stoked that this turned out as well as it did. It has only gone this far because of the helpful input all of you have provided.
@Dmm225 -- Zephyr259 said it all. Thanks, Zephyr! Good luck on your pauper endeavor.
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First thing is that I replaced Trinket Mage with Sylvan Ranger and replaced all the artifact lands with the appropriate basics. I noticed that I only used Trinket Mage to get lands so I chopped off a mana and make it easier to leave up Counterspell/Muddle the Mixture. This also keeps these lands safe from Deed/Disk/Krosan Grip, which is quite important when you need Child to live and only have one red source.
Second is that I replaced the Cycling lands with more basics. The ability to use Cultivate to get a red or white source after your first two have been blown up is very important in my eyes. It also makes Far Wanderings much better late game, able to ramp me even more.
This deck has a very hard time against Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. He blows up a land when they cast him and is nigh unkillable.
I switched out Terminate for Unmake in order to deal with him, and Unmake is easier to transmute for.
Rolling Thunder's double red mana cost is just too prohibitive. Once people see that you plan on recurring it to win, they attack your mountains with a vengeance. I only used it as a Blaze, really, so for now it is being replaced with good, old Fireball.
I also put in Red Elemental Blast to better deal with Blue decks and to give the deck some raw power that it lacks in comparison to regular decks. The ability to kill Child is also great. Thank you whoever first suggested it.
This deck really can do anything it wants against any deck without counterspells. Mnemonic Wall+Death Denied lets you block forever and use all the ETB abilities of the creatures in your graveyard.
Finally, I think that this deck would really benefit from Foresee to help find the recursion pieces.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
Really if you're going to consider Reclaim, wouldn't Elven Cache be better? I mean sure if you need to recur something incredibly early, you probably won't have the mana to play Cache and use the spell you get... but the rest of the time you get the card immediately instead of having to wait a turn, or engineer a card draw.
Personally I've been running it for awhile to recur combo pieces (enchantments specifically), and I find it's versatility quite useful. That being said, I might also stuff Reclaim in the deck, though obviously not over Cache.
Changes I've made recently:
I've switched the basics in the deck for their snow counterparts so that I can run Skred which pretty much reads one red, instant, kill target creature.
Also I've traded out Diabolic Edict for Pyroblast. The reason being that I only ever seem to use Edict on myself to kill Child, where in group games it really doesn't do anything else besides trade with their worst guy. At least Pyroblast has the option of dealing with the most obnoxious (and best color) in EDH. Obviously I'm already running Red Elemental Blast.
Also while it hasn't really come up yet in games (since I already seem to draw more cards than I can ever use), I'm running Impaler Shrike over Moriok Replica... I figure I'd prefer not to pay life to draw cards in the deck, especially given stuff like Crypt Rats to think of (or the overwhelming ball of hate people are starting to develop for this deck in one of my metas). Potentially you net more cards off an activation, it can even act as a better finisher than Replica, and doesn't require the life. However it's drawbacks are that it's more blue intensive (not really a problem), and of course you must hit somebody to get your cards... so it requires a turn. Still figured I'd give it a try... Also as a bonus, Clique players have to counter it since it blocks Clique and irritating them is often a good extra reason to run stuff (looks at Skred, Pyroblast, and Red Elemental Blast).
I've been up in the air on the Cycling lands for awhile, I move them in and out of the deck. At the best of times, they net me a couple cards mid/late game.... At the worst of times, they pollute my opening hand setting me back turns. Mostly whether or not I play them depends on the value of Tilling Treefolk, lately my meta has been full of LD so he's back in... If they run less, I'll probably cut him again, along with his buddy buddy cycle lands.
My current plan against Ulamog is counter/bounce/Freed from the Reel (though I'd prefer to not use that on him). Still I've been eying Unmake as well though my biggest problem with it has been that it can't be used to kill Child. Which I kind of prefer all my kill spells be able to do.
The thing about Rolling Thunder is that we've got potentially two Transmute cards at 2cc, so it's a lot easier to get over Fireball. Then again I run more red than everybody else I think, so double red isn't a problem, also I like to transmute for it for the combo kill. Still I could see if you run less cutting it to just Fireball, not like we don't draw an army of cards already to find it.
UWGrand Arbiter Augustin IV-Last edit 12/02/11
RStarke of Rath - Last edit 11/30/11
GAzusa, Lost but Seeking - Last Edit 11/29/11
BPatron of the Nezumi - Last edit 11/29/11
I found out yesterday that Fireball had the problem that it could not be tutored for. I had to dig down till I had about 15 cards in my library till I found it and won. It may not be that big of a deal, since I had the game under complete control, since I was the only one who was not in topdeck mode, but Rolling Thunder may be better just so that I can find my win condition more quickly if there is actually pressure to win the game fast. OF course, I could just run Dizzy Spell and call it a day, so maybe that is worth considering.
Running Skred seems like a good idea. Right now I have half snow covered and half regular lands in order to not be completely blown out by Wake of Destruction on my Islands/Forests. The ability to run Skred seems better than that tiny benefit, however.
I disagree with Imapler Shrike. Moriok Replica draws cards now, while Shrike draws them sometime in the future..ish. When you are digging for a certain card, I prefer the ability to draw with Replica as soon as I can play him, so I can start the process of recurring him more quickly. Also, double blue is a lot for me since I like to leave up a counterspell whenever I can, and reaver can be paid with your least needed colors and only needs one black in the process. With the life issue, do you run Overrule in your list? I use it as a late game life burst while also countering whatever seems to be the biggest threat in that turn cycle.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
The thing about Dizzy Spell is that there are very few 1cc cards I'd want to spend 1UU getting. That's really the only reason I've never added it, though I keep looking sideways at it as I toss in more 1cc stuff like Skred.
About Impaler Shrike:
As for Impaler.... yeah, I didn't think it would be great, I just like to try out things because you never know, and otherwise the deck gets boring. That being said, Moriok Replica has been on the chopping block for awhile... he's just well, not very good. So if anything, I'll likely just ditch both and free up the slot for a real card.
About Overrule:
As for Overrule, yeah I've been testing it every since d0su mentioned it. Biggest problem is... it really only seems to be gaining me life, when I've already stabilized in the late game... at which point I don't need it. But early game it just costs too much, people in my play group tend to develop their manabases too much for it reliably counter things, or it gains so little life... that it was pretty inconsequential. At least that's what I've found.
Agreed on Dizzy Spell and Impaler Shrike, though Moriok Replica has been more than fine to me so far. I will be the first to admit that Overrule can be a little clunky. However, it was added with the intention of using it like you described: to pad your life total in the late game and recover from the early beats, lest your Crypt Rats become unusable or an uncounterable Banefire knock you out of the game. LittlestMorte and I were brainstorming for lifegain cards back on Page 5, and I went with Overrule because it was the most widely useful for things other than gaining life, so you can check that out if you still think you need a lifegain slot.
As for Reclaim vs. Elven Cache, I would choose Reclaim because it's an instant and therefore tutorable via any of the tutor chains that lead to Mystical Teachings. Otherwise, yeah, I'd totally agree with you there as well.
I'm going to have to reassess Diabolic Edict. It is my primary tool for dealing with indestructible guys that slip through countermagic, but like you said, Unmake can fill that role. Unmake doesn't kill Child of Alara, so another destruction spell (like REB) would have to work its way into here as well.
Skred is difficult to accomodate. My mana base is split between basics and nonbasics, so even if I get a full set of foil snow-covered lands, it might be too underwhelming. Skred would be auto-include in other decks, though.
Hopefully I will find an EDH playgroup soon. I'm falling way behind on my dreamcrushing quota, and Cockatrice is getting less and less appealing for social Magic.
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Also as for Skred, I'd say just count the number of basics you have in play at any time you'd want to kill something. You'd be amazed how much Skred does to creatures. I mean just check out my current list,
(Pardon Cockatrice's horrible sorting when copying the to clipboard)
1 Far Wanderings
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Capsize
1 Perplex
1 Slippery Karst
1 Elven Cache
1 Armillary Sphere
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Krosan Restorer
1 Cultivate
1 Polluted Mire
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Skred
1 Rush of Knowledge
1 Brainspoil
1 Freed from the Real
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Evolution Charm
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Rolling Thunder
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Shimmering Grotto
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Impaler Shrike
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Arcane Denial
1 Naya Panorama
1 Tilling Treefolk
1 Rupture Spire
1 Lonely Sandbar
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Disturbed Burial
1 Swirling Sandstorm
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Mind Extraction
1 Terminate
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Wrecking Ball
1 Condescend
1 Soul Manipulation
1 Command Tower
1 Overrule
1 Momentary Blink
1 Gravedigger
1 Jund Panorama
1 Reap and Sow
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Mulldrifter
1 Barren Moor
1 Pyroblast
1 Bant Panorama
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Remote Isle
1 Death Denied
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Rend Flesh
1 Eyeblight's Ending
1 Shred Memory
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Deep Analysis
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Rampant Growth
1 Crypt Rats
1 Grixis Panorama
1 Esper Panorama
1 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
7 Snow-Covered Forest
5 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Snow-Covered Plains
2 Snow-Covered Mountain
7 Snow-Covered Island
I'm pretty spread out between basics/non basics as well at the moment with sort of a conglomeration of yours and LittlestMorte's manabases... Yet even if I drop child on turn 5, by then it already does 3-5 damage most of the time, it really doesn't take many lands to be good, late game it will often clock things for 15+ damage, if only it hit players.
Also my meta has shifted towards a lot of graveyard recursion, and token crap.... so if you're wondering why Swirling Sandstorm is in there as well as Crypt Rats... to answer the tokens. Also we've actually got a minor pauper EDH meta going as well, and since Dralnu, Lich Lord (who is a very obnoxious Pauper General might I add) is seeing play... it's twice the funny against that as well. Kill your board, except Dralnu... now sac 5 permanents... Good times. Still obviously a meta dependent choice.
I've also included Reap And Sow as my anti graveyard card since I cut Trinket Mage ages ago and with graveyard recursion on the rise I figured an extra slot to hose them would be nice. Obviously I fish out Bojuka Bog with it, and if I feel like kicking it I can also destroy Volrath's Stronghold or Academy Ruins as well. On top of that it can even act as a mana fixer if I really need one.
As for the whole Moriok Replica thing, I find the Rush of Knowledge chain loads my hand so much, I just never want to recur the Replica. Though with all this discussion of Reclaim, I think I'll try it in the slot. At the very least it sounds interesting.
EDIT: Call to Heel has been pretty sick too.
EDIT 2: Dismantling Blow?
EDIT 3: Skulltap?
Experimental Kraj
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
Sanctum Gargoyle allows you to return Moriok Relpica, Prophetic Prism, & Darksteel Ingot. Additionally Gargoyle is a little bigger creature with evasion.
I imagine the other cards are simply a matter of preference. I've played a few games with the deck & really haven't come across anything that isn't pulling its weight.
First, having played in this league before, 75% of the decks have blue, so I think Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast are easy inclusions.
Second, they ban infinite combos and LD that is solely to get people off mana. This covers a huge weakness that the deck has, namely that I have to keep red available in order to burn out everyone else, and need WUBRG throughout the game in order to cast Child.
Third, I think this deck needs more draw power. Stuff like Foresee and Sign in Blood let us get our recursion pieces more easily than we otherwise could.
Fourth, the fact that Worthy Cause and Fallen Ideal are both uncommons is ridiculous.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
Here is my list for reference.
1 Brainstorm
1 Condescend
1 Dizzy Spell
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Arcane Denial
1 Counterspell
1 Death Denied
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Grim Harvest
1 Momentary Blink
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Overrule
1 Capsize
1 Faerie Trickery
1 Perplex
1 Rend Flesh
1 Snakeform
1 Soul Manipulation
1 Unmake
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Wrecking Ball
1 Preordain
1 Disturbed Burial
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Revoke Existence
1 Compulsive Research
1 Cultivate
1 Far Wanderings
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Mind Extraction
1 Deep Analysis
1 Foresee
1 Brainspoil
1 Rush of Knowledge
1 Horizon Spellbomb
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Mycosynth Wellspring
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Cadaver Imp
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Moriok Replica
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Gravedigger
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Mnemonic Wall
1 Mulldrifter
1 Twisted Abomination
1 Krosan Tusker
3 Plains
10 Island
1 Halimar Depths
8 Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Mountain
11 Forest
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Shimmering Grotto
1 Rupture Spire
In round one I was facing a Wrexial, the Risen Deep, Damia, Sage of Stone, and an Omnath, Locus of Mana.
The Omnath player started by saying how his deck regularly gets 100 mana in his mana pool, and he started by playing various stuff that added mana to his pool and such, but since he was so open about how we were going to lose and that he would definately not win nicest player, we 3v1ed him till he had no board presence or cards in hand.
The Wrexial player had gotten Primeval Titan with desertion from the Omnath guy, and was going crazy. The game was pretty much over since he was swinging at Damia with Wrexial to get Knowledge Exploitation for Time Warp, then Time Warp itself. He eventually played Myojin of Night's Reach, countered Disturbed Burial for Child and we thrashed around for a few turns since scooping loses points in our league.
The second game was much better though. I was against the same Wrexial player, and there was a mostly precon Kaalia of the Vast and a Rafiq of the Many.
The Rafiq player blazed out of the gates swinging with him turn 4 and attacking Wrexial. The Wrexial deck was based around playing the opponents spells, so he had to attack Rafiq to get anything worth playing at all. They fought it out for several turns while I ramped and got stocked removal, and Kaalia did nothing too serious. Wrexial eventually resolved Recurring Insight and had a 30 card hand after taking 2 extra turns. Kaalia cheated in Mana-Charged Dragon and suddenly the rest of us realized that whoever it swung at would die. Wrexial passed the turn with three mana up when Rafiq told me that if I could get him to tap out, he would kill him on his turn. I played Child from my hand and Mind Extracted Wrexial.... which resolved. Rafiq player played his general and passed, then Kaalia played Bladewing, the Risen to get back Mana-Charged Dragon. He then killed Wrexial thanks to the Anger in his Graveyard and passed.
Rafiq was surely going to come after me next, so I played Cadaver Imp, bringing back Child, then cast Far Wanderings and Kodama's Reach. He cast Rite of Replication unkicked on Mana-Charged Dragon, but still died to a Kaalia next turn.
Then it was 1v1, and he scooped several turns later to Child+Disturbed Burial.
Good:
Far Wanderings-This is a beating and a half and pretty much is considered uncuttable at this point. It can fix your mana early, but casting late lets you actually do full loops of killing and rezing Child every turn.
Faerie Trickery-For being the only counterspell that I played all day. This deck may need a few more counters, since what we have just seems to be slightly to little.
Dizzy Spell-For finding Fireball, and the Blasts.
Bad:
Unmake:Really hard to leave mana up for this and Diabolic Edict or somesuch. Yet, it does solve the indestructible problem, because relying on Edict to kill Ulamog is sketchy at best.
Revoke Existence-for never being useful. I Preordained/Sea Gate Oracled this to the bottom twice, while never casting it and never being happy to draw it.
Next week, I know that I am going to take out Revoke Existence for Anarchist, as a worse Chronarch/Wall.
EDIT:I just saw Vedalken Æthermage is common and I think that it is too cute of an interaction for words. I may try to squeeze him in there somewhere, and if I do, then I will also put Scrivener in also.
Turn 2 Two Goblin Guide
Mana Cylix
Command Tower
Opinions? Speed up that mana deployment?
Edit:
Did you ever consider Hull Breach as a control?
Or Hearth Charm for the multiple utility?