I'm on a budget, so that's why i am running Mind Wrench instead of Hymn to Tourach.
Does any1 have comments or criticismk to the deck?
Add 4x Dark ritual. Dark ritual is key to having a hypnotic as early as possible.
Infest doesn't really work with your creatures. Get other removal. spinning darkness is both cheap and effective since you will likely fill up your graveyard with black spells quickly. +1 Doomblade also works.
Geth's grimoire isn't very useful, due to its cost. While it might seem good (my discard spells double as draw), the 4cc cost means that very, very likely you're already spent most of your discard spells, or your opponent is already low on hand. Straight up draw like night's whisper is cheap and more effective.
So I made a Black Red discard deck that only wins via Bloodchief (Minor) and Megrim/Liliana's Caress (Major) I'd like more consistent Liliana/Megrim's as this is a relatively budget deck. The problem with this is that if i don't have a way to proc bloodchief or dont have liliana's/megrim's on the field i'm sunk :/ (Batterskull for a lack of a better word is filler, recently acquired Liliana Vess maybe she will fit better)
Hi, i have mono B discard deck. We are playing only 2HG and only with same 6 people, always they got: R/B madness, Reanimator, U control, R burn i B/G fungus. I'm searching for help in my deck which will better against they decks. We are playing with all formats and always 2v2.
Your opponents are playing madness and reanimator.
I'm sorry to say, but discard is not the way to beat madness and reanimator. Reanimator MAYBE can be dealt with by mainddeck 4xleyline of the void, and/or aggressive pinpoint discard (duress, thoughtseize), followed by high power, low-cost creatures (4x phyrexian negator) but madness is not something discard was meant to beat except by sheer luck. Burn is also pretty horrid matchup.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
As an explanation on some of the cards - Despise over duress because my casual playgroup is pretty aggro focused. Getting a worrisome beater out of their hand is more important when they're not running as many spells/echantments etc.
Go for the throat over doomblade cause there are a couple zombie and vampire decks floating around.
My "casual" max restrictions
1x of each Mythic
2x of each Rare
3x of each Uncommon
4x of each Common
This is my Liliana themed deck focusing on discard. The imposed restrictions are to keep it casual, as I don't feel like throwing out $100+ for a set of planeswalkers.
I've found it's very good if you have control of the board. I've read a bunch of comments of people not liking it, but the two times I played it, it seemed fine to me. Getting it out pretty early with Dark Ritual probably had something to do with it, though.
I've been working on a discard-based control deck for kitchen table fun. I love deckbuilding, and I realized I hadn't explored the sideboard side of it. I took a quick first run at it but it could definitley be improved. So I'm looking for advice on my sideboard mostly. I know there are some better cards I could use, but its just for playing inexpensivley with my friends.
I've been having the most trouble with aggressive decks. I laugh at combo decks.
I've also been having troube thinking about what to take in/out vs whatever deck. The kitchen table holds a plethora of decks, no two the same, so I'm trying to keep it somewhat general.
I think you need more creatures. If you do not draw any Lore Broker or Cephalid Looter or they are destroyed, your opponent will not be drawing and discarding automatically and taking the damage from Megrim or Liliana's caress. You don't need to add too many, but enough for a back up.
Okay so the idea is to get them to discard cards and lose life. I was thinking of putting underworld dreams, 4 hypnotic specter, or maybe chalice of life. Please let me know what you think, and please give me suggestions.
I've been trying to do a discard burn deck and lately it seems to be pretty lack luster in its approach to winning. Most of the time the deck wins 1v1. But i want to make it better than it is so that I dont just sit there with discard spells while my opponent has no cards every turn. Newest changes to the deck are the Mincrank/Ascension combo. Haven't tested it out yet so I'm hoping to get it to work.
Any help is appreciated.
I've been trying to do a discard burn deck and lately it seems to be pretty lack luster in its approach to winning. Most of the time the deck wins 1v1. But i want to make it better than it is so that I dont just sit there with discard spells while my opponent has no cards every turn. Newest changes to the deck are the Mincrank/Ascension combo. Haven't tested it out yet so I'm hoping to get it to work.
Any help is appreciated.
BTW, Unburden would be a great card to add to the 3cc Primer at the beginning. Preferably before Mind Rot.
If you are only duelling with this deck, I suggest removing Syphon Mind; while that card can be the bomb in a larger game, in a duel, it seems rarely worth it.
The drawback to most cards that force draws (like Font of Mythos and Howling Mine) do so on the opponent's turn, giving them a chance to cast what they've drawn and you still don't get to make them discard it. Funeral Charm helps a tiny bit in this regard, but not nearly enough.
An alternative is to rework the deck to feature some land destruction, like Rain of Tears, Icequake, and/or Strip Mine. I say this because no land=a full hand, and therefore discard targets.
Cheers!
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If in the area, check out Gamers N Geeks and Mini War Games in Mobile, Alabama and Underhill's Games in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio.
I ended up taking out the Syphon Minds and putting in 3 The Racks. I hope they work well. I never need LD in my decks because theyre not really relevant in my play group since we don't play 60 card games most of the time, primarily EDH.
You need to control swarm to be able to let Rack effects do the job. Crypt Rats + Swarmyard, usually keep the board quiet enough for your strategy work.
Finally, ninjutsu rats are helpful to bounce back (Ravenous or Chittering), AND produce another effect, these creatures are: Skullsnatcher and Throat Slitter. These tends to be my picks (CIP effects) over Specter (beating effects).
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
I find that 5 removal spells are enough to keep threats in check. Might drop the Duress in favor of Inquisition of Kozilek to help deal with early game threats.
Sorry Halted, but Specter has been amazing for me. A turn 1 Ritual into Specter followed by a turn 2 Hymn is quite brutal and most decks can't really combat that. That's not to say ninja rats aren't viable, but I just think this isn't the deck for them.
Made this UB discard/control deck quickly from what I had available after disassembling my RB discard/burn deck as it had quite lacklustre performance.
I'm planning to get Underground Rivers and Drowned Catacombs to replace Jwar Isle Refuges and some basics. Anyways, please tell me if you have other suggestions to improve it.
You are attempting to run spells with BB and UU without duals. That's not going to work. In fact, even with duals I'd heavily recommend not running counterspell. Play mana leak if you absolutely have to run counters. Mishra's factory, which is colorless, makes the problem worse.
In general, though, it isn't a good strategy. Part of the problem, aside from color coordination, is that you tend to spend your mana during your turn to cast discard spells, leaving you tapped and unable to counter.
For example, its turn 2. What is your ideal lands in that situation? If you have two swamps, then your'e not casting counterspell any time soon. If you have one or two islands, your hymn is stuck in your hand.
Let's say you get duals and manage to plop down two underground seas. Do you cast hymn, or do you wait to cast counterspell?
Same thing during turn 3.
In fact, the deck only really runs smoothly turn 4, and that's assuming you have 2 black sources and 2 blue sources of mana.
Add 4x Dark ritual. Dark ritual is key to having a hypnotic as early as possible.
Infest doesn't really work with your creatures. Get other removal. spinning darkness is both cheap and effective since you will likely fill up your graveyard with black spells quickly. +1 Doomblade also works.
Geth's grimoire isn't very useful, due to its cost. While it might seem good (my discard spells double as draw), the 4cc cost means that very, very likely you're already spent most of your discard spells, or your opponent is already low on hand. Straight up draw like night's whisper is cheap and more effective.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Hellfire Mongrel, Lavaborn Muse and Rekindled Flame seem nasty.
Deck Building Primer - Casual
Sliver Primer - Casual Share your tips with us !!
Want To Buy List Please Check !!
Now Playing:
Excaliboros R(R/W)W / Maverick G(G/W)W
Bant Pro Excalibur (G/U)W(G/U) / Merfolk (W/U)U(U/B)
4 DragonSkull Summit
4 Tainted Peak
12 Swamp
1 Batterskull
3 BloodChief Accension
4 Megrim
4 Liliana's Caress
4 Blightning
4 Terminate
2 Blackmail
2 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Dark Ritual
2 Rakdos Carnarium
2 Blackmail
2 Duress
2 Inquisition
4 Despise
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Mindcrank
1 Liliana Vess
Your opponents are playing madness and reanimator.
I'm sorry to say, but discard is not the way to beat madness and reanimator. Reanimator MAYBE can be dealt with by mainddeck 4xleyline of the void, and/or aggressive pinpoint discard (duress, thoughtseize), followed by high power, low-cost creatures (4x phyrexian negator) but madness is not something discard was meant to beat except by sheer luck. Burn is also pretty horrid matchup.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Deck Building Primer - Casual
Sliver Primer - Casual Share your tips with us !!
Want To Buy List Please Check !!
Now Playing:
Excaliboros R(R/W)W / Maverick G(G/W)W
Bant Pro Excalibur (G/U)W(G/U) / Merfolk (W/U)U(U/B)
4x The Rack
2x Scepter of Fugue
Creatures
2x Nezumi Shortfang
2x Ravenous Rats
4x Nyxathid
4x Hypnotic Specter
4x Liliana's Caress
Spells
4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Duress
4x Dark Ritual
4x Go for the Throat
4x Despise
20x Swamp
As an explanation on some of the cards - Despise over duress because my casual playgroup is pretty aggro focused. Getting a worrisome beater out of their hand is more important when they're not running as many spells/echantments etc.
Go for the throat over doomblade cause there are a couple zombie and vampire decks floating around.
2x Hypnotic Specter
3x Veilborn Ghoul
4x Liliana's Shade
4x Liliana's Specter
4x Ravenous Rats
4x Black Cat
3x Shrieking Affliction
2x Quest for the Nihil Stone
3x Liliana's Caress
Land
24x Swamp
Planeswalkers
1x Liliana Vess
1x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana of the Dark Realms
2x Mutilate
2x Killing Wave
1x Demonic Tutor
My "casual" max restrictions
1x of each Mythic
2x of each Rare
3x of each Uncommon
4x of each Common
This is my Liliana themed deck focusing on discard. The imposed restrictions are to keep it casual, as I don't feel like throwing out $100+ for a set of planeswalkers.
I've found it's very good if you have control of the board. I've read a bunch of comments of people not liking it, but the two times I played it, it seemed fine to me. Getting it out pretty early with Dark Ritual probably had something to do with it, though.
2x Cancel
2x Think Twice
3x Recoil
2x Mana Leak
Creature (7)
1x Steel Hellkite
3x Lore Broker
1x Cephalid Looter
1x Sangromancer
1x Spellskite
Enchantment (8)
4x Megrim
4x Liliana's Caress
3x Distress
3x Waking Nightmare
1x Ostracize
2x Duress
2x Horrifying Revelation
Land (24)
10x Island
10x Swamp
3x Rootwater Depths
1x Bad River
Artifact (1)
1x Skullcage
1x Flashfreeze
2x Coffin Purge
1x Diabolic Tutor
1x Dark Banishing
1x Flash Flood
2x Mind Control
2x Sadistic Sacrament
2x Blood Seeker
2x Shrivel
1x Gitaxian Probe
I've been having the most trouble with aggressive decks. I laugh at combo decks.
I've also been having troube thinking about what to take in/out vs whatever deck. The kitchen table holds a plethora of decks, no two the same, so I'm trying to keep it somewhat general.
(click on it if you don't believe me. I mean 1 megrim/Liliana's Caress + Urza's Guilt = a minimum of 8 damage to EACH opponent)
Trade Thread
24swamp
Creatures
4 ravenous rats
4 augur of skulls
Okay so the idea is to get them to discard cards and lose life. I was thinking of putting underworld dreams, 4 hypnotic specter, or maybe chalice of life. Please let me know what you think, and please give me suggestions.
Any help is appreciated.
4x Liliana's Specter
3x Hypnotic Specter
4x Nyxathid
Artifacts
2x Mindcrank
Sorceries
4x Blightning
3x Syphon Mind
4x Unburden
4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Unearth
2x Bituminous Blast
Enchantments
3x Bloodchief Ascension
2x Liliana's Caress
Planeswalker
2x Liliana Vess
Lands
3x Dragonskull Summit
10x Mountain
11x Swamp
BTW, Unburden would be a great card to add to the 3cc Primer at the beginning. Preferably before Mind Rot.
Mono Konda| Sakashima| Yahenni| Ashling| Selvala|C Karn
Guilds Grand Arbiter| Meren| Gisa & Geralf| Scorpion God| Omnath| Sisay| Karlov| Avacyn| Jhoira v2| Rashmi|
Shards WUB Oloro|GWU Roon|RGW Jurassic Park|UBR Nekusar|BRG Kresh|
Clans RWU Narset|WBR Vampires|BGW Doran|UBG Muldrotha|URG Animar|
4-Colors GWUB Atraxa|BRGWSaskia|RGWU Hydra Hug| UBRGYidris|WUBRBreya|
5-Color WUBRG Super Friends
Extra Decks Titania| Taigam| Locust God| Cats| Tishana| Kumena| Squirrels| Slimefoot} Baron|RGW Samut|UBR Pirates|UBR Mairsil| WUBRG Ramos|
The bane of discard decks are opponents with no hands. The Rack helps in this regard, as does methods of forcing draw, such as Temple Bell, Mikokoro, Center of the Sea, or Anvil of Bogardan (the last is one of very few cards that makes Megrim/Liliana's Caress playable, imo).
The drawback to most cards that force draws (like Font of Mythos and Howling Mine) do so on the opponent's turn, giving them a chance to cast what they've drawn and you still don't get to make them discard it. Funeral Charm helps a tiny bit in this regard, but not nearly enough.
An alternative is to rework the deck to feature some land destruction, like Rain of Tears, Icequake, and/or Strip Mine. I say this because no land=a full hand, and therefore discard targets.
Cheers!
Krichaiushii on PucaTrade.
Mono Konda| Sakashima| Yahenni| Ashling| Selvala|C Karn
Guilds Grand Arbiter| Meren| Gisa & Geralf| Scorpion God| Omnath| Sisay| Karlov| Avacyn| Jhoira v2| Rashmi|
Shards WUB Oloro|GWU Roon|RGW Jurassic Park|UBR Nekusar|BRG Kresh|
Clans RWU Narset|WBR Vampires|BGW Doran|UBG Muldrotha|URG Animar|
4-Colors GWUB Atraxa|BRGWSaskia|RGWU Hydra Hug| UBRGYidris|WUBRBreya|
5-Color WUBRG Super Friends
Extra Decks Titania| Taigam| Locust God| Cats| Tishana| Kumena| Squirrels| Slimefoot} Baron|RGW Samut|UBR Pirates|UBR Mairsil| WUBRG Ramos|
4 Nezumi Shortfang
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Chittering Rats
4 Ravenous Rats
2 Tombstalker
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Geth's Verdict
4 Dark Ritual
2 Snuff Out
4 The Rack
3 Swarmyard
18 Swamp
Control the game through forced discard and win via The Rack, a flipped Nezumi Shortfang, and/or Tombstalker beats.
Thoughts?
Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, is also useful to fix your mana base when using Swarmyard.
Finally, ninjutsu rats are helpful to bounce back (Ravenous or Chittering), AND produce another effect, these creatures are: Skullsnatcher and Throat Slitter. These tends to be my picks (CIP effects) over Specter (beating effects).
Sorry Halted, but Specter has been amazing for me. A turn 1 Ritual into Specter followed by a turn 2 Hymn is quite brutal and most decks can't really combat that. That's not to say ninja rats aren't viable, but I just think this isn't the deck for them.
4 Hymm to Tourach
4 Hypnotic Spectre
4 The Rack
4 Mind Rot
4 Nyxathid
4 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Lotus Petal
1 Necropotence
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Diabolic Edict
2 Rackling
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Barren Moor
12 Swamps
4 Dark Ritual
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Duress
4 The Rack
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Geth's Verdict
4 Phyrexian Arena
4 Hypnotic Specter
Land
20 Swamp
4x Ravenous Rats
4x Hypnotic Spectre
2x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
Instants:
4x Dark Ritual
4x Counterspell
4x Rune Snag
4x Diabolic Edict
2x Recoil
2x Fact or Fiction
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
Lands:
4x Jwar Isle Refuge
4x Mishra's Factory
7x Island
7x Swamp
I'm planning to get Underground Rivers and Drowned Catacombs to replace Jwar Isle Refuges and some basics. Anyways, please tell me if you have other suggestions to improve it.
In general, though, it isn't a good strategy. Part of the problem, aside from color coordination, is that you tend to spend your mana during your turn to cast discard spells, leaving you tapped and unable to counter.
For example, its turn 2. What is your ideal lands in that situation? If you have two swamps, then your'e not casting counterspell any time soon. If you have one or two islands, your hymn is stuck in your hand.
Let's say you get duals and manage to plop down two underground seas. Do you cast hymn, or do you wait to cast counterspell?
Same thing during turn 3.
In fact, the deck only really runs smoothly turn 4, and that's assuming you have 2 black sources and 2 blue sources of mana.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn