Well considering it's seeing testing in some odd-duck combo decks, I think it will always see some sort of demand. Might not be $10 demand... but I would think any combo loving player would try and trade for a playset at a resonable price. That and we have no idea what could come along to make it a good card. I love that deck that was posted on TCG player this week. Totally reminded me of Pyromancer...
(Key: The card's most recent move is on the right. This indicates the hottest mover of the update. indicates no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. Data is from here.)
Clifftop Retreat fell off the tally this update, as it is now worth less than the booster pack it comes out of.
Prices overall are down another 5% since my last update, not even a week ago. This is normal at this point after the set's release. My sales have been non-existent for the past three weeks. It's strange after a really hot several weeks of sales before that. Perhaps people are concentrating on buying Christmas presents. Most Decembers haven't been this abysmal however. The economy is surely at least somewhat to blame.
Liliana still commands $28 or so, for top spot. Garruk took a nasty tumble in value over the past week, allowing Snapcaster Mage (which also lost some value) to take second place. Giest and Olivia also cooled slightly, rounding out the top 5, the only cards in the set you can consider "chase". From there it's a drop way down to the five dollar level (Army, Mikaeus, and Stromkirk). Past in Flames managed to move up one more spot. Mayor of Avabruck and Skaab Ruinator continued to drop in price. I'm interested to see Jeff's updated numbers on box value. Gut feeling tells me it's probably best to go after singles now at this point, as the value of unopened product seems to have dropped below where most people can get it for.
I'm thinking Faithless Looting could make a difference
I don't think that it will go up because of Standard because Wizards doesn't want to do combo in Standard. I'd say we were lucky to even see Exarch Twin.
However, this is just my opinion. I personally have 4 that I bought for $20 and 1 from a very late pick in Draft.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
A quick update to keep track of some trending cards:
1) Liliana of the Veil :rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:
2) Snapcaster Mage :thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:
3) Garruk Relentless the Veil-Cursed :thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:
4) Geist of Saint Traft :rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:
5) Olivia Voldaren :thumbsup::3mana:/:thumbsup::4mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsup::3mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:
6) Army of the Damned :rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsup::6mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::4mana:/:thumbsup::3mana:/:rate0:
7) Mikaeus, the Lunarch :thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsdown::3mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsup::3mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:
8) Stromkirk Noble :thumbsup::?mana:/:thumbsup::11mana:/:thumbsup::11mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:rate0:
9) Bloodline Keeper Lord of Lineage :thumbsdown::5mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsup::3mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:
10) Isolated Chapel :rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::3mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:
11) Hinterland Harbor :rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsdown::4mana:/:thumbsup::3mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsdown::3mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:
12) Sulfur Falls :thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::4mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:
13) Champion of the Parish :thumbsup::?mana:/:thumbsup::6mana:/:thumbsup::3mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsup::4mana:/:thumbsup::2mana::thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsdown::3mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:
14) Past in Flames :thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsdown::11mana:/:thumbsdown::4mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsup::4mana:/:thumbsup::5mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:
15) Woodland Cemetery :rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::3mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:
16) Tree of Redemption :thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsdown::3mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::3mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsup::6mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:
17) Angelic Overseer :thumbsup::3mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsup::3mana:/:thumbsdown::4mana:/:thumbsup::3mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:
18) Kessig Wolf Run :thumbsup::?mana:/:thumbsup::6mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:rate0:
19) Skaab Ruinator :rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::5mana:/:thumbsdown::3mana:
20) Gavony Township :thumbsup::?mana:/:thumbsup::11mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:
21) Grimgrin, Corpse-Born :thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:
22) Mayor of Avabruck Howlpack Alpha :thumbsup::?mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsup::4mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:
(Key: The card's most recent move is on the right. This indicates the hottest mover of the update. indicates no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. Data is from here.)
Clifftop Retreat fell off the tally this update, as it is now worth less than the booster pack it comes out of.
Prices overall are down another 5% since my last update, not even a week ago. This is normal at this point after the set's release. My sales have been non-existent for the past three weeks. It's strange after a really hot several weeks of sales before that. Perhaps people are concentrating on buying Christmas presents. Most Decembers haven't been this abysmal however. The economy is surely at least somewhat to blame.
Liliana still commands $28 or so, for top spot. Garruk took a nasty tumble in value over the past week, allowing Snapcaster Mage (which also lost some value) to take second place. Giest and Olivia also cooled slightly, rounding out the top 5, the only cards in the set you can consider "chase". From there it's a drop way down to the five dollar level (Army, Mikaeus, and Stromkirk). Past in Flames managed to move up one more spot. Mayor of Avabruck and Skaab Ruinator continued to drop in price. I'm interested to see Jeff's updated numbers on box value. Gut feeling tells me it's probably best to go after singles now at this point, as the value of unopened product seems to have dropped below where most people can get it for.
You think Graveborn might have some slight impact on sales?
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Have players started receiving their redeemed MTGO sets, or has that not taken effect yet?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Due to real-life obligations, I am taking a long break from Magic which may include missing the local Legacy GP. Apologies for not being able to keep my threads updated.
You think Graveborn might have some slight impact on sales?
It's possible people are buying that instead of a ISD fatpack or boosters... It has just as much to do with how gangbusters the set sold originally I think though... Many people really have what they need for decks at this point. That and people don't play as much Magic in the holidays since they are drug off to work parties, family outings, and gift exchanges.
Regarding Past in Flames... I'd say at 2.5 that's a solid buy, by the way. It being a mythic and all, and given its potential, I doubt it's that risky. I wouldn't hoard tons of them, but a playset or two won't hold you back too much in case it never happens.
Past in Flames realy still seems like something you should hoard. All it takes is one deck to run it and be very good, and the price will shoot up. It really has to potential to in my mind. I already have my 2 playsets and are considering a 3rd.
The problem with Past in Flames is that even if there are decks that use it, it'll be at most a one or two-of. Look at Skaab Ruinator for an example, both Standard Bant Pod and Legacy Merfolk use only 1, and it's not a bad card in either of those decks. The low demand even if it's used in top tier decks prevents the card from shooting up in price, Storm combo isn't the most popular archetype and it's the only type of deck this card could fit in.
The problem with Past in Flames is that even if there are decks that use it, it'll be at most a one or two-of. Look at Skaab Ruinator for an example, both Standard Bant Pod and Legacy Merfolk use only 1, and it's not a bad card in either of those decks. The low demand even if it's used in top tier decks prevents the card from shooting up in price, Storm combo isn't the most popular archetype and it's the only type of deck this card could fit in.
Agreed with the above but in both cases I think they could be sound long term investments. They're about as cheap as they can get now and if they see play in any non standard deck they will slowly go up over time as they become harder to find. I don't think either will explode but they are mythics so they have a higher ceiling than most cards at their current price point
The problem with Past in Flames is that even if there are decks that use it, it'll be at most a one or two-of. Look at Skaab Ruinator for an example, both Standard Bant Pod and Legacy Merfolk use only 1, and it's not a bad card in either of those decks. The low demand even if it's used in top tier decks prevents the card from shooting up in price, Storm combo isn't the most popular archetype and it's the only type of deck this card could fit in.
You're also speaking about today. There is no reason that in a month we'll be scrambling to grab playsets of both of these cards because of some wacky interaction that comes out in Dark Ascension. It's speculation, but Vengevine is a good example of a card that people all recognized as good and started out in high price, but didn't really take off in a deck until months later. Frankly, I see both of these cards as being strong possibility of gains once we see more of this block. It's not like they'll stop using the graveyard as a tool here...
You're also speaking about today. There is no reason that in a month we'll be scrambling to grab playsets of both of these cards because of some wacky interaction that comes out in Dark Ascension. It's speculation, but Vengevine is a good example of a card that people all recognized as good and started out in high price, but didn't really take off in a deck until months later. Frankly, I see both of these cards as being strong possibility of gains once we see more of this block. It's not like they'll stop using the graveyard as a tool here...
I think he allready consideret this. From my point of view he's still correct.
This is not a card wich will fit in almost every competitive Deck. It's not a Tarmogoyf, it's a really graveyard based card. The possibilities for this card are restricted by itself... Can't see more then 1 or 2 decks in legacy (solidarity & friends) and definitely no more than 1 or 2 as well in modern or standart. And for Commander maybe... I can't see a high demand anywhere exept by people who are speculating and hoard them to make profit...
I guess the people who actually buy the cards on ebay or other stores are divided like following:
75% who are speculating.
25% wich are playing with.
In our location we're about 25 players I know really well. Only one of them is playing this card in Brainfreeze combo. Maybe it's different in your area?
they will slowly go up over time as they become harder to find.
Again, how so? Yes, they'll become harder to find, but then again every card in the game does. That doesn't mean every card goes "slowly up over time". Any that aren't seeing heavy play in popular decks go down over time.
they have a higher ceiling than most cards at their current price point
"Price point" isn't the correct term (look it up if you like). "Price tag" would be more accurate. And "ceiling" wasn't the correct word either, I believe you meant "upside".
Any thoughts on Nephalia Drownyard or Gavony Township?
Chas Andres wrote about them being good long term investments. G/W token/aggro will always exist and the Drownyard is key in control vs control matchups. Also they act as good replacement for inkmoth (after it rotates) as the colorless land spell card for their respective color combinations.
You're also speaking about today. There is no reason that in a month we'll be scrambling to grab playsets of both of these cards because of some wacky interaction that comes out in Dark Ascension. It's speculation, but Vengevine is a good example of a card that people all recognized as good and started out in high price, but didn't really take off in a deck until months later. Frankly, I see both of these cards as being strong possibility of gains once we see more of this block. It's not like they'll stop using the graveyard as a tool here...
The difference between Skaab Ruinator and Vengevine is that Vengevine is a card that works best as a playset or 3-of (using Intuition) while Ruinator is really clunky as a 4-of. Vengevine's prices soared because suddenly everybody needed a playset of an underdrafted big set mythic and the hype made people reluctant to sell/trade their existing copies. Look at Liliana of the Veil, the card's price halved as soon as people realized that she sucked if you used an entire playset in a single deck. Today very few decks use more than two of her, that dramatically reduces the demand of a card, unlike Snapcaster Mage, which despite of being only a rare he's holding high because most blue decks from Vintage to Standard want 4 of him.
How so? There are plenty of mythics in the 50c bin, and both cards mentioned are well above that.
While I certainly agree with this... I am merely stating I don't think they're going to drop much more (note I am pricing past in flames around $2.50 and skaab at $3). They still could go down but it's probably by a dollar or two max. That's a relatively small loss unless you're buying hundreds which I by no means am endorsing. I myself have just been picking them up as fillers in trades here and there.
Again, how so? Yes, they'll become harder to find, but then again every card in the game does. That doesn't mean every card goes "slowly up over time". Any that aren't seeing heavy play in popular decks go down over time.
I am merely offering my opinion... not stating cold hard facts. If these 2 specific mythics see play in non standard decks then in the long run I do think they have a larger upside than many cards at their current "price tags" as they do powerful things and are mythic. The typical 50 cent junk mythic is just a generic overcosted fatty that does cool things but is too slow to see play or just worse than other creatures previously printed. In the case of these 2 mythics...
1 provides some very powerful recursion (a skill that historically can be broken) and has flashback itself. It might prove to be too expensive to see play... but if it does see play it has good upside in my opinion...
and 1 is a very undercosted flying beater with recursion in a color that usually doesn't get such things in one package. It also happens to be in arguably the most popular color in older formats. True it has a significant restriction but all it takes is one card or combo to make him viable and he will be one of blues better beaters.
Now I said I don't think either is going to explode but simply stated they could be decent long term investments and even qualified it with "if they see play outside of standard".
I didn't even mention that they both have a long time in standard still and could become much better with other cards in their block. For example I am curious to see how faithless looting helps past in flames. That alone won't break it... and I haven't seen anything yet that leads me to believe either will explode while in standard... but the potential is there and there price is currently pretty low.
"Price point" isn't the correct term (look it up if you like). "Price tag" would be more accurate. And "ceiling" wasn't the correct word either, I believe you meant "upside".
While I'll admit the terminology wasn't perfect I believe my intent was clear.
EDIT: I do think skaab will still go lower and is the worse bet of the two. Past in flames is the one i think is actually bottoming out.
Any thoughts on Nephalia Drownyard or Gavony Township?
Chas Andres wrote about them being good long term investments. G/W token/aggro will always exist and the Drownyard is key in control vs control matchups. Also they act as good replacement for inkmoth (after it rotates) as the colorless land spell card for their respective color combinations.
I agree with Chas on this.
I think Gavony Township might be worth something, but it's a utility land that doesn't provide any colored mana. I'm thinking 4-5 dollars, max. Nephalia Drownyard could be something... I mean blue/black is underrated and with the limitless removal it has at its disposal in addition to snapcasting them back, it could secure a win condition (albeit, very slow). I just keep thinking of the worldwake manlands and how creeping tarpit was one that kept its price at 5-7 while the others didn't get nearly that much (i could be mistaken on celestial colonade).
Overall, I think they're 4-5 dollar cards that could spike like Scars lands, but I doubt it since scar lands provided faster color fixing.
The problem with Past in Flames is that even if there are decks that use it, it'll be at most a one or two-of. Look at Skaab Ruinator for an example, both Standard Bant Pod and Legacy Merfolk use only 1, and it's not a bad card in either of those decks. The low demand even if it's used in top tier decks prevents the card from shooting up in price, Storm combo isn't the most popular archetype and it's the only type of deck this card could fit in.
FWIW, storm combo is easily THE most popular modern deck on mtgo. This is presumably owing to the fact that it's the cheapest viable deck. The "Kalastria Highborn Effect" will make the rarest cards in the cheapest deck way overvalued on mtgo, which should be Past in Flames and of course Steam Vents. There's some possibility Past in Flames could get a spike in value in January for PTQ season, as people looking to spend under $200 on a modern deck have little other option than UR storm, and a few oddities like Living End or mono-red affinity.
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
??? Just checked SCG, and they still had 50 showing in stock. Your right about the $20/playset, but they they were just $16/set, so it's not like there is a run on it. ?
Just about. People will begin heavily speculating which will floor it completely.
It's a card that is begging for a ritual card to mesh with. I think we'll see it in DKA.
I'd say it has potential to drop to $2, but I wouldn't venture it'll hit dollar mythic like Mirror-Mad Phantasm.
I'm thinking Faithless Looting could make a difference
A quick update to keep track of some trending cards:
1) Liliana of the Veil / / / / / / / / /
2) Snapcaster Mage / / / / / / / / /
3) Garruk Relentless the Veil-Cursed / / / / / / / / /
4) Geist of Saint Traft / / / / / / / / /
5) Olivia Voldaren / / / / / / / / /
6) Army of the Damned / / / / / / / / /
7) Mikaeus, the Lunarch / / / / / / / / /
8) Stromkirk Noble / / / / / / / / /
9) Bloodline Keeper Lord of Lineage / / / / / / / / /
10) Isolated Chapel / / / / / / / /
11) Hinterland Harbor / / / / / / / / /
12) Sulfur Falls / / / / / / / / / /
13) Champion of the Parish / / / / / / / /
14) Past in Flames / / / / / / / / /
15) Woodland Cemetery / / / / / / / / /
16) Tree of Redemption / / / / / / / / /
17) Angelic Overseer / / / / / / / / /
18) Kessig Wolf Run / / / / / /
19) Skaab Ruinator / / / / / / / / /
20) Gavony Township / / / / /
21) Grimgrin, Corpse-Born / / / / / / / / /
22) Mayor of Avabruck Howlpack Alpha / / / / / / / /
(Key: The card's most recent move is on the right. This indicates the hottest mover of the update. indicates no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. Data is from here.)
Clifftop Retreat fell off the tally this update, as it is now worth less than the booster pack it comes out of.
Prices overall are down another 5% since my last update, not even a week ago. This is normal at this point after the set's release. My sales have been non-existent for the past three weeks. It's strange after a really hot several weeks of sales before that. Perhaps people are concentrating on buying Christmas presents. Most Decembers haven't been this abysmal however. The economy is surely at least somewhat to blame.
Liliana still commands $28 or so, for top spot. Garruk took a nasty tumble in value over the past week, allowing Snapcaster Mage (which also lost some value) to take second place. Giest and Olivia also cooled slightly, rounding out the top 5, the only cards in the set you can consider "chase". From there it's a drop way down to the five dollar level (Army, Mikaeus, and Stromkirk). Past in Flames managed to move up one more spot. Mayor of Avabruck and Skaab Ruinator continued to drop in price. I'm interested to see Jeff's updated numbers on box value. Gut feeling tells me it's probably best to go after singles now at this point, as the value of unopened product seems to have dropped below where most people can get it for.
.
I don't think that it will go up because of Standard because Wizards doesn't want to do combo in Standard. I'd say we were lucky to even see Exarch Twin.
However, this is just my opinion. I personally have 4 that I bought for $20 and 1 from a very late pick in Draft.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)You think Graveborn might have some slight impact on sales?
Legacy
UWR Miracles UWR
GWB Maverick GWB
GB Elves GB
UBR ANT UBR
RG Combo Lands RG
Vintage
BUG BUG Fish BUG
Modern
GBW
Junk PodMagic: the BuylistingIt's possible people are buying that instead of a ISD fatpack or boosters... It has just as much to do with how gangbusters the set sold originally I think though... Many people really have what they need for decks at this point. That and people don't play as much Magic in the holidays since they are drug off to work parties, family outings, and gift exchanges.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyAgreed with the above but in both cases I think they could be sound long term investments. They're about as cheap as they can get now and if they see play in any non standard deck they will slowly go up over time as they become harder to find. I don't think either will explode but they are mythics so they have a higher ceiling than most cards at their current price point
You're also speaking about today. There is no reason that in a month we'll be scrambling to grab playsets of both of these cards because of some wacky interaction that comes out in Dark Ascension. It's speculation, but Vengevine is a good example of a card that people all recognized as good and started out in high price, but didn't really take off in a deck until months later. Frankly, I see both of these cards as being strong possibility of gains once we see more of this block. It's not like they'll stop using the graveyard as a tool here...
I think he allready consideret this. From my point of view he's still correct.
This is not a card wich will fit in almost every competitive Deck. It's not a Tarmogoyf, it's a really graveyard based card. The possibilities for this card are restricted by itself... Can't see more then 1 or 2 decks in legacy (solidarity & friends) and definitely no more than 1 or 2 as well in modern or standart. And for Commander maybe... I can't see a high demand anywhere exept by people who are speculating and hoard them to make profit...
I guess the people who actually buy the cards on ebay or other stores are divided like following:
75% who are speculating.
25% wich are playing with.
In our location we're about 25 players I know really well. Only one of them is playing this card in Brainfreeze combo. Maybe it's different in your area?
How so? There are plenty of mythics in the 50c bin, and both cards mentioned are well above that.
Again, how so? Yes, they'll become harder to find, but then again every card in the game does. That doesn't mean every card goes "slowly up over time". Any that aren't seeing heavy play in popular decks go down over time.
"Price point" isn't the correct term (look it up if you like). "Price tag" would be more accurate. And "ceiling" wasn't the correct word either, I believe you meant "upside".
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Chas Andres wrote about them being good long term investments. G/W token/aggro will always exist and the Drownyard is key in control vs control matchups. Also they act as good replacement for inkmoth (after it rotates) as the colorless land spell card for their respective color combinations.
I agree with Chas on this.
The difference between Skaab Ruinator and Vengevine is that Vengevine is a card that works best as a playset or 3-of (using Intuition) while Ruinator is really clunky as a 4-of. Vengevine's prices soared because suddenly everybody needed a playset of an underdrafted big set mythic and the hype made people reluctant to sell/trade their existing copies. Look at Liliana of the Veil, the card's price halved as soon as people realized that she sucked if you used an entire playset in a single deck. Today very few decks use more than two of her, that dramatically reduces the demand of a card, unlike Snapcaster Mage, which despite of being only a rare he's holding high because most blue decks from Vintage to Standard want 4 of him.
While I certainly agree with this... I am merely stating I don't think they're going to drop much more (note I am pricing past in flames around $2.50 and skaab at $3). They still could go down but it's probably by a dollar or two max. That's a relatively small loss unless you're buying hundreds which I by no means am endorsing. I myself have just been picking them up as fillers in trades here and there.
I am merely offering my opinion... not stating cold hard facts. If these 2 specific mythics see play in non standard decks then in the long run I do think they have a larger upside than many cards at their current "price tags" as they do powerful things and are mythic. The typical 50 cent junk mythic is just a generic overcosted fatty that does cool things but is too slow to see play or just worse than other creatures previously printed. In the case of these 2 mythics...
1 provides some very powerful recursion (a skill that historically can be broken) and has flashback itself. It might prove to be too expensive to see play... but if it does see play it has good upside in my opinion...
and 1 is a very undercosted flying beater with recursion in a color that usually doesn't get such things in one package. It also happens to be in arguably the most popular color in older formats. True it has a significant restriction but all it takes is one card or combo to make him viable and he will be one of blues better beaters.
Now I said I don't think either is going to explode but simply stated they could be decent long term investments and even qualified it with "if they see play outside of standard".
I didn't even mention that they both have a long time in standard still and could become much better with other cards in their block. For example I am curious to see how faithless looting helps past in flames. That alone won't break it... and I haven't seen anything yet that leads me to believe either will explode while in standard... but the potential is there and there price is currently pretty low.
While I'll admit the terminology wasn't perfect I believe my intent was clear.
EDIT: I do think skaab will still go lower and is the worse bet of the two. Past in flames is the one i think is actually bottoming out.
I think Gavony Township might be worth something, but it's a utility land that doesn't provide any colored mana. I'm thinking 4-5 dollars, max. Nephalia Drownyard could be something... I mean blue/black is underrated and with the limitless removal it has at its disposal in addition to snapcasting them back, it could secure a win condition (albeit, very slow). I just keep thinking of the worldwake manlands and how creeping tarpit was one that kept its price at 5-7 while the others didn't get nearly that much (i could be mistaken on celestial colonade).
Overall, I think they're 4-5 dollar cards that could spike like Scars lands, but I doubt it since scar lands provided faster color fixing.
FWIW, storm combo is easily THE most popular modern deck on mtgo. This is presumably owing to the fact that it's the cheapest viable deck. The "Kalastria Highborn Effect" will make the rarest cards in the cheapest deck way overvalued on mtgo, which should be Past in Flames and of course Steam Vents. There's some possibility Past in Flames could get a spike in value in January for PTQ season, as people looking to spend under $200 on a modern deck have little other option than UR storm, and a few oddities like Living End or mono-red affinity.
Yep, and the only card spoiled in DKA seems to fit right in so PiF could be going up, up, up for at least the next 6 months.