I'm not sure about the Abolishers, although they are ok in a heave U/B and Delver meta.
I'm Really not sure about Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. She slowed me down a lot when I tested her out. Mana Leak seems like a must though because it's our only way of countering Non-Creature Spells. I guess I'll think about that one.
-WaRl0rD-, I just realized that you're at 62 cards, and not 60... Your creature count is off by 2. I'm not sure if you knew that or not. If you want to get it back to 60, I think the Grand Abolisher count could be cut down to 2. I'd put Mana Leak in the sideboard...
Fix'd. Bumped the 2 Fiend Hunter into the Sideboard
I don't think that's a very good idea... Fiend Hunter is one of the staples of this build... It's great for removal (which you should like against the aggro decks you mentioned), it's white, so it will be pumped by Honor of the Pure, and it's a human, so it will pump your Champion of the Parish. It's a great card to have in the mainboard.
As for Moorland Haunt, I'll let someone more qualified than I am discuss whether this will add significant "speed" to your deck.
I don't think that's a very good idea... Fiend Hunter is one of the staples of this build... It's great for removal (which you should like against the aggro decks you mentioned), it's white, so it will be pumped by Honor of the Pure, and it's a human, so it will pump your Champion of the Parish. It's a great card to have in the mainboard.
As for Moorland Haunt, I'll let someone more qualified than I am discuss whether this will add significant "speed" to your deck.
Your right, I Looked around for some other lists and found that most run only 3 Moorland Haunt so I took one out and took out a Mana Leak. Just put the Fiend Hunters back in.
~W
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No money for Magic at the moment. Still on here for the community.
Moorland Haunt is nuts, 3 is the perfect number imo
Fiend Hunter I find to be to be very solid removal and thats why I run 4 also has the nice bonus of pumping Champ unless Leon ; becomes esp effective once both side's resources have been reduced. I can understand siding out Fiend Hunter afraid of heavy removal in the side but he shines game 1 so much. Did I forget he is a very nice blocker, just be careful blocking unusual attacks (obv I guess)
Thalia is a card I have some hard time judging its impact, for now I will keep it at 3 but def do need to get more input and testplaying to make a more informed decision. Grand Abolisher has worked pretty good but thats coming from the side vs matchups it should do well against so yea, grain of salt. I am loving Cathar but I might take one out for the 2nd Inquistor.
Mana Leak, esp liking it in the side for reasons explained in the Primer; nutshell, being on the play and draw makes a huge diff with this deck and counters. Liking 2 Mana Leak 1 Flashfreeze but not sure on what should be the other counter (Leak/Negate/Freez), ideas? As far as the rest of the side, not 100% sold on it but seems ok although their might be better cards that hit more matchups idk??
Hero of Bladehold, having 4 in the deck seems to lead to a lot of inconsistent draws esp early game. Against Delver, having mult copies is the bane of my existence lol. I might put the count back to 3 since like ppl have said its a 'must answer or lose' card but not totally sure.
Had O-Ring in the other build (Gather-less) but just seems a bit slow in here, Destiny seems better since I can get in the last bit of damage but I could be wrong; might side 1-2 Ring
I've stuck with 4 Thalias because I absolutely want her on the play versus any deck. Even if she just slows the enemy for a single turn, that puts the game that much further into my favor.
I'm running a spirit mantle SB because I lack a 3rd angelic, plus it's only 3 CMC with thalia out, and it makes attacks unchumpable(geist!).
I also lack a second war and peace, so I have a feast and famine in its place.
I've also chosen cathar over gather the townsfolk because of the heavy presence of board wipe in standard.
The only decks I haven't encountered are frites and wolf run. I'm mainly concerned about getting criticism about my deck vs wolf-run, as I've never had issues versus other decks.
Have had good success with Humans for FNM. I've ran Sorin Tokens, Delver Variants with no luck in getting into the top 4 where I play. I wanted to splash some blue for control and Geist of Saint Traft but I'm not sure what ratio of control/creatures/land I should be running. Have been playing magic for about 2 months (maybe less).
I am debating weather or not to add Mana Leak and remove a land or 2. Also trying to fit in some Lawkeepers for extra control.
Also, I would really, really try to get a third Moorland Haunt and two more Glacial Fortress to get rid of those Evolving Wilds and an Island (at least). They shouldn't be that expensive (not sure where do you live, but even over here where everything is ridiculously expensive those cards are affordable).
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
I've stuck with 4 Thalias because I absolutely want her on the play versus any deck. Even if she just slows the enemy for a single turn, that puts the game that much further into my favor.
I'm running a spirit mantle SB because I lack a 3rd angelic, plus it's only 3 CMC with thalia out, and it makes attacks unchumpable(geist!).
I also lack a second war and peace, so I have a feast and famine in its place.
I've also chosen cathar over gather the townsfolk because of the heavy presence of board wipe in standard.
The only decks I haven't encountered are frites and wolf run. I'm mainly concerned about getting criticism about my deck vs wolf-run, as I've never had issues versus other decks.
Can't believe you haven't played against wolf run yet.
Your deck is not setup terribly against WRR, the sword of fiest and famine helps a lot here. You may miss a couple of the Orings but the fiend hunters should be sufficient if you draw them. Consider 2 Flashfreeze in SB (maybe for the 2 corrosive gale which isn't as important now that esper spirits seems to have died down). You can bring that in as well as the two Celestial purge which removes their Huntermaster and Inferno titan. Leak is also good against them. The challenge then is what to take out, I opt for a range like 1 Hero (although you only have 3), 2 Giest, 1 Sword of war and peace.
Not much graveyard hate in your SB, maybe can cut 1-2 leak (especially if you bring in the flashfreeze) for surgical extraction or spellbomb, which will help against Frites, Control, Delver and Zombies. Also when do you side in the gather? Delver? Could be replaced with more of a hoser spell.
Realized that I needed the Destiny against WWR and Hero needed to be put up to 3 since it lets us win games where we would normally lose. Seriously considering Faith's Shield in the side.
I would take rafab's advice... If you set up the land this way, you'll have room for 1 more card. I'd fill that spot with another Hero of Bladehold or Angelic Destiny. Also, as rafab said, a Fiend Hunter is more useful here than an Oblivion Ring.
As for the Mana Leak, I'd put those in the sideboard.
I've just set up to start playing Humans next week. I play in a green ramp and human heavy meta with a couple of control decks and the occasional other random deck pops up. This is what I'm planning on playing.
Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
I thought Hero would be a bit slow for the meta I play in.
Nevermore is a vague answer for things I wouldn't otherwise have an answer to.
Stony Silence is in there as a hate card for My boss who plays a Puresteel Paladin Deck and His Son that plays a green deck with lots of swords. We have kind of a competition between us to see who places higher each week.
Hey, I haven't been playing a lot of Standard lately as I have been grinding out some Modern plus the Legacy GP took my interest there for a while.
Either way, I have a local event coming up that have some real sweet prizes so I want to play the best deck I can. I am picking up UW Humans for this event, and here is my list. The meta is unknown, but I live in Ohio so I expect a lot of Zombies and other aggro decks, which is the reason for the lack of Geist.
Ends up only one guy out of the 30 or so standard people at this shop plays Wolfrun, and he's rarely around.
I changed out gather for 2 revoke existence. I should probably remove the ratchet as well, I'll try to replace it with a war and peace if I can find one. I could remove the gales and go for orings, but what decks would I want them for?
-Tried out Faith's Shield which was meh, we need something against board sweepers besides Cathar (maybe the above idea?), maybe Nevermore?
-Not sure if we rly need 2 Surgical... maybe another Spellbomb and Cage? The life in matchups u side them in can be pretty important and sometimes u want to affect more then 1 card.
-Grand Abolisher was decent but 3 side spots is huge so hes gone
Wolf Run type decks have been my real pain, any cards (besides Swords) that could help?
Note: Lack of Seachrome Coasts can be attributed to my lack of $
Budget warning.
You have a lot of one-ofs in your deck, which is rather inefficient... The lowest you should go is a two-of, so perhaps you should take a look at increasing your counts or dropping those creatures. I would DEFINITELY recommend getting another Mirran Crusader. He is a staple of this build. I would drop Mikaeus, the Lunarch, as there are better options for your deck. Sideboard the Mana Leak... You'll probably want another Fiend Hunter, too. I'm assuming/hoping that you're going to get some Seachrome Coast soon, but until then, you could switch out a few Island for Plains, as your only U card (assuming you sideboard the Mana Leak) would be Geist of Saint Traft.
Finally, I am extremely conflicted about Thalia, Guardian of Thraben... I know it's a great card, but I can't seem to get over the fact that she hampers so many other cards if your opponent doesn't deal with her quickly. I am in love with the rest of my deck, but she is the only one I feel uneasy about... I have read the SCD on her, but I'm still not sure whether I should sideboard her or not. Can anyone here convince me one way or the other?
I'm especially uneasy about the sideboard, since I've never been terribly good at making them and this one isn't as thoughtfully put together as I'd like (essentially it's for tweaking proportions of cards already in the deck), but thoughts on the maindeck would be helpful as well. I've been trying to figure out if there's a way to make room for Elite Inquisitor or Loyal Cathar, but I'm not sure how I'd do it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Edit: another 4-1 at FNM. Tied for first, but actually got first due to opening like 3 money cards XP
Changing the deck drastically based off some advice from the team to see if it changes the match ups at all. Let me know what u think! (now 10-2 in live matches, as played 2 more matches off to the side.)
Let me just get this out of the way. I absolutely LOVE 1 of batterskull. It has won me so many games against other aggro decks. The only game I've ever lost against another aggro deck when having an active batterskull out is against G/R hellrider swinging for lethal pre-combat.
But essentially this is my versions of U/W Humans. I only like to run one geist of saint traft because sometimes it can be quite difficult to get that blue source. I rarely have a time where I can't cast him because of it.
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I'm Really not sure about Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. She slowed me down a lot when I tested her out. Mana Leak seems like a must though because it's our only way of countering Non-Creature Spells. I guess I'll think about that one.
Fix'd. Bumped the 2 Fiend Hunter into the Sideboard
Not to sure about that, I need a fast deck because my meta is full of Aggro.
~W
No money for Magic at the moment. Still on here for the community.
I don't think that's a very good idea... Fiend Hunter is one of the staples of this build... It's great for removal (which you should like against the aggro decks you mentioned), it's white, so it will be pumped by Honor of the Pure, and it's a human, so it will pump your Champion of the Parish. It's a great card to have in the mainboard.
As for Moorland Haunt, I'll let someone more qualified than I am discuss whether this will add significant "speed" to your deck.
Your right, I Looked around for some other lists and found that most run only 3 Moorland Haunt so I took one out and took out a Mana Leak. Just put the Fiend Hunters back in.
~W
No money for Magic at the moment. Still on here for the community.
Fiend Hunter I find to be to be very solid removal and thats why I run 4 also has the nice bonus of pumping Champ unless Leon
Thalia is a card I have some hard time judging its impact, for now I will keep it at 3 but def do need to get more input and testplaying to make a more informed decision. Grand Abolisher has worked pretty good but thats coming from the side vs matchups it should do well against so yea, grain of salt. I am loving Cathar but I might take one out for the 2nd Inquistor.
Mana Leak, esp liking it in the side for reasons explained in the Primer; nutshell, being on the play and draw makes a huge diff with this deck and counters. Liking 2 Mana Leak 1 Flashfreeze but not sure on what should be the other counter (Leak/Negate/Freez), ideas? As far as the rest of the side, not 100% sold on it but seems ok although their might be better cards that hit more matchups idk??
Hero of Bladehold, having 4 in the deck seems to lead to a lot of inconsistent draws esp early game. Against Delver, having mult copies is the bane of my existence lol. I might put the count back to 3 since like ppl have said its a 'must answer or lose' card but not totally sure.
Had O-Ring in the other build (Gather-less) but just seems a bit slow in here, Destiny seems better since I can get in the last bit of damage but I could be wrong; might side 1-2 Ring
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
12 Plains
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Hero of Bladehold
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Fiend Hunter
4 Loyal Cathar
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
2 Angelic Destiny
4 Honor of the Pure
2 Corrosive Gale
2 Celestial Purge
1 Spirit Mantle
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
4 Mana Leak
2 Gather the Townsfolk
I've stuck with 4 Thalias because I absolutely want her on the play versus any deck. Even if she just slows the enemy for a single turn, that puts the game that much further into my favor.
I'm running a spirit mantle SB because I lack a 3rd angelic, plus it's only 3 CMC with thalia out, and it makes attacks unchumpable(geist!).
I also lack a second war and peace, so I have a feast and famine in its place.
I've also chosen cathar over gather the townsfolk because of the heavy presence of board wipe in standard.
The only decks I haven't encountered are frites and wolf run. I'm mainly concerned about getting criticism about my deck vs wolf-run, as I've never had issues versus other decks.
I am debating weather or not to add Mana Leak and remove a land or 2. Also trying to fit in some Lawkeepers for extra control.
3 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Hero of Bladehold
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Doomed Traveler
2 Grand Abolisher
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Angelic Destiny
4 Honor of the Pure
4 Gather the Townsfolk
3 Oblivion Ring
Artifact 1
1 Sword of War and Peace
Land 24
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Glacial Fortress
2 Moorland Haunt
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Island
12 Plains
Any feedback would be appreciated.
Also, I would really, really try to get a third Moorland Haunt and two more Glacial Fortress to get rid of those Evolving Wilds and an Island (at least). They shouldn't be that expensive (not sure where do you live, but even over here where everything is ridiculously expensive those cards are affordable).
Can't believe you haven't played against wolf run yet.
Your deck is not setup terribly against WRR, the sword of fiest and famine helps a lot here. You may miss a couple of the Orings but the fiend hunters should be sufficient if you draw them. Consider 2 Flashfreeze in SB (maybe for the 2 corrosive gale which isn't as important now that esper spirits seems to have died down). You can bring that in as well as the two Celestial purge which removes their Huntermaster and Inferno titan. Leak is also good against them. The challenge then is what to take out, I opt for a range like 1 Hero (although you only have 3), 2 Giest, 1 Sword of war and peace.
Not much graveyard hate in your SB, maybe can cut 1-2 leak (especially if you bring in the flashfreeze) for surgical extraction or spellbomb, which will help against Frites, Control, Delver and Zombies. Also when do you side in the gather? Delver? Could be replaced with more of a hoser spell.
4 Loyal Cathar
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Doomed Traveler
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
3 Hero of Bladehold
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Fiend Hunter
3 Gather the Townsfolk
2 Angelic Destiny
1 Oblivion Ring
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Moorland Haunt
12 Plains
3 Grand Abolisher
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Revoke Existence
2 Mana Leak
1 Flashfreeze
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Celestial Purge
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
Just played a 2 man against Delver where he quad Timely Reinforcements and double Day of Judgment all in the same game... I still won
Realized that I needed the Destiny against WWR and Hero needed to be put up to 3 since it lets us win games where we would normally lose. Seriously considering Faith's Shield in the side.
Yes, the land for this build is pretty solid at 4x Seachrome Coast, 4x Glacial Fortress, 3x Moorland Haunt, 1x Island, and 11x Plains. Did you have a specific reason for changing it up with the Evolving Wilds?
I would take rafab's advice... If you set up the land this way, you'll have room for 1 more card. I'd fill that spot with another Hero of Bladehold or Angelic Destiny. Also, as rafab said, a Fiend Hunter is more useful here than an Oblivion Ring.
As for the Mana Leak, I'd put those in the sideboard.
11 Plains
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Moorland Haunt
SPELLS
4 Gather the Townsfolk
4 Honor of the Pure
3 Angelic Destiny
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Elite Inquisitor
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Fiend Hunter
3 Loyal Cathar
2 Geist of Saint Traft
4 Grand Abolisher
3 Nevermore
3 Stony Silence
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Fiend Hunter
What are the Nevermore and Stony Silence for?
I thought Hero would be a bit slow for the meta I play in.
Nevermore is a vague answer for things I wouldn't otherwise have an answer to.
Stony Silence is in there as a hate card for My boss who plays a Puresteel Paladin Deck and His Son that plays a green deck with lots of swords. We have kind of a competition between us to see who places higher each week.
3x Mirran Crusader
3x Hero of Bladehold
1x Gideon's Lawkeeper
3x Grand Abolisher
1x Mikaeus, the Lunarch
2x Fiend Hunter
4x Champion of the Parish
3x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Doomed Traveler
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
5x Island
11x Plains
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Moorland Haunt
Enchantment (8)
2x Oblivion Ring
4x Honor of the Pure
2x Angelic Destiny
1x Mana Leak
2x Gather the Townsfolk
1x Sword of War and Peace
Note: Lack of Seachrome Coasts can be attributed to my lack of $
Budget warning.
if ur going to use my avvy please credit Xeno....
also try 4 Gather the townsfolk. drop mana leak and gideon's law keeper
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
Either way, I have a local event coming up that have some real sweet prizes so I want to play the best deck I can. I am picking up UW Humans for this event, and here is my list. The meta is unknown, but I live in Ohio so I expect a lot of Zombies and other aggro decks, which is the reason for the lack of Geist.
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Doomed Traveler
4x Loyal Cather
4x Hero of Bladehold
4x Mirran Crusader
3x Fiend Hunter
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Elite Inquisitor
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
4x Honor of the Pure
2x Oblivion Ring
2x Sword of War and Peace
Lands(23)
12x Plains
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Seachrome Coast
3x Moorland Haunt
2x Celestial Purge
2x Corrosive Gale
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
2x Mana Leak
2x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Divine Offering
1x Flashfreeze
1x Negate
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
I changed out gather for 2 revoke existence. I should probably remove the ratchet as well, I'll try to replace it with a war and peace if I can find one. I could remove the gales and go for orings, but what decks would I want them for?
Went and changed a few things:
-More Mana Leak which was so so but sometimes no Blue source would happen, thinking 2 Leak 1 Negate 1 Flashfreeze and 1 Island; thoughts?
-Tried out Faith's Shield which was meh, we need something against board sweepers besides Cathar (maybe the above idea?), maybe Nevermore?
-Not sure if we rly need 2 Surgical... maybe another Spellbomb and Cage? The life in matchups u side them in can be pretty important and sometimes u want to affect more then 1 card.
-Grand Abolisher was decent but 3 side spots is huge so hes gone
Wolf Run type decks have been my real pain, any cards (besides Swords) that could help?
You have a lot of one-ofs in your deck, which is rather inefficient... The lowest you should go is a two-of, so perhaps you should take a look at increasing your counts or dropping those creatures. I would DEFINITELY recommend getting another Mirran Crusader. He is a staple of this build. I would drop Mikaeus, the Lunarch, as there are better options for your deck. Sideboard the Mana Leak... You'll probably want another Fiend Hunter, too. I'm assuming/hoping that you're going to get some Seachrome Coast soon, but until then, you could switch out a few Island for Plains, as your only U card (assuming you sideboard the Mana Leak) would be Geist of Saint Traft.
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Corrosive Gale
2 Day of Judgment
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Ponder
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
I am seriously considering changing it to this:
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Corrosive Gale
2 Celestial Purge
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Dismember
2 Divine Offering
1 Oblivion Ring
Any thoughts?
Finally, I am extremely conflicted about Thalia, Guardian of Thraben... I know it's a great card, but I can't seem to get over the fact that she hampers so many other cards if your opponent doesn't deal with her quickly. I am in love with the rest of my deck, but she is the only one I feel uneasy about... I have read the SCD on her, but I'm still not sure whether I should sideboard her or not. Can anyone here convince me one way or the other?
3x Mirran Crusader
3x Hero of Bladehold
2x Leonin Relic-Warder
2x Gideon's Lawkeeper
2x Grand Abolisher
2x Fiend Hunter
4x Champion of the Parish
2x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Doomed Traveler
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Oblivion Ring
4x Honor of the Pure
2x Sword of War and Peace
2x Angelic Destiny
Lands (23)
4x Glacial Fortress
4x Seachrome Coast
3x Moorland Haunt
11x Plains
1x Island
1x Oblivion Ring
2x Flashfreeze
2x Mana Leak
1x Divine Offering
2x Celestial Purge
1x Revoke Existence
1x Leonin Relic-Warder
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
2x Corrosive Gale
1x Angelic Destiny
1x Geist of Saint Traft
I'm especially uneasy about the sideboard, since I've never been terribly good at making them and this one isn't as thoughtfully put together as I'd like (essentially it's for tweaking proportions of cards already in the deck), but thoughts on the maindeck would be helpful as well. I've been trying to figure out if there's a way to make room for Elite Inquisitor or Loyal Cathar, but I'm not sure how I'd do it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
My Decks
UW - Geist's Living Relatives - WU
Tweaked the list severely wanted to see what you guys thought
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Doomed Traveler
2x Gideon's Lawkeeper
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Grand Abolisher
3x Elite Inquisitor
4x Mirran Crusader
2x Fiend Hunter
1x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Hero of Blade hold
4x Honor of the Pure
2x Angelic Destiny
Artifacts (3)
2x Sword of War and Peace
1x Batterskull
Lands (22)
4x Seachrome Coast
4x Glacial Fortress
3x Moorland Haunt
11x Plains
Let me just get this out of the way. I absolutely LOVE 1 of batterskull. It has won me so many games against other aggro decks. The only game I've ever lost against another aggro deck when having an active batterskull out is against G/R hellrider swinging for lethal pre-combat.
But essentially this is my versions of U/W Humans. I only like to run one geist of saint traft because sometimes it can be quite difficult to get that blue source. I rarely have a time where I can't cast him because of it.
Legacy:
Modern:
EDH: