Due to my lack of talent with taking notes(more like me saying f*** it and throwing my pen), I will just be giving an overview of my night, and further changes I shall be implementing. I would like to point out that my wife an I were upset at one another, and I was scatterbrained through out the first 2 matches. Drama makes it hard to focus.
FNM Results: 2-3 13th place out 18
Vs. RWB Tokens
Game 1: Blood Artist was a pain. He cast Divine Reckoning when I had 4 tokens, a flipped Delver, and a Captain out, forcing me to 5 damage while he gained 5, and after that it was a lost cause.
Game 2: Kept a poor hand with just 2 lands, and that was all the land I saw. Island, Ponder, no land so I shuffled. Draw Gitaxian Probe, pay 2, draw another Ponder. Passed turn, he played a mountain and Stromkirk Noble. I drew, played my second Island, cast Ponder, no land, shuffled it away, drew another Ponder, cast again, still no land, shuffled, drew Lingering Souls. For the next 4 turns I was without land. I lose, pick up the top card, and it was a Plains.
Vs. Mono Red
Game 1: Got land flooded. I can't recall much because my phone was going off every few seconds. I know it ended with me taking a Bonfire to the dome, but thats about it.
Game 2: Started off strong with Delver, flipped him T2, and then I ran into problems. he Shocked Delver, cast Arc Trails when I played any tokens, and then used Volt Charge on a Strokirk Berserker to boost him to 7/7. No snags, no Mana Leaks, not one thing of removal or counter came up.
Vs. Mono-White Angels
Game 1: I was playing to relax now, and the person I was playing was a friend, so they understood. Ended up getting 14 4/4 Spirits out, only to run into DoJ. After that, I just laughed. She won with an army of 4/4 Angels from Moonsilver Spear
Game 2: Delver flipped T2 was too much for her to race, and I ended up winning on T5, just as she was building steam.
Game 3: Spirits popped rather quickly, and despite the fact that she was at 35 life, I won once 2 Favorable Winds landed.
Vs. Unknown
Honestly, my opponent dropped out, so nothing even happened.
Vs. Mono White Humans
Game 1: Dual Delvers on T2, both flipped T3, and then Favorable Winds T4 was too much for him to race.
Game 2: Sadly, my deck thought it would be fun to make me mull to 5, and then watch as I struggled on 2 Islands and no White mana with 2 Lingering Souls and a Midnight Haunt in hand.
Game 3: I admit, this was a troll game. By troll game, I mean he was going to win, but I wasn't about to make it easy. I snagged a champion, countered a Thalia, and then sat back and defended myself with tokens for 3 turns in a row. He would declare attackers, I'd cast Midnight Haunting and block all but his Doomed Traveler. Sadly, on T4, I drew a Plains to compliment my 2 Mana Leaks, and with 1 life left, it didn't matter.
Ok, so that is enough of that. The only changes I made before the game was:
First and foremost, Thought Scour was a terrible choice. That is being removed, but not for a blue or white card. I am, instead, going to focus on something that the deck lacks. I have noticed a trend of needing removal, but only having 4-6 removal in the deck. Since I have more sources for Black mana, I am going to start branching into Esper Delver Spirits. I already started by running Sever the Bloodlines in SB, but I feel that its not enough.
Also, on the note of Sever the Bloodlines, I will say that I used it against the RWB Tokens deck and the Angels Deck. It worked out better than I hoped, and even forced the RWB deck to use Nevermore to stop me from flashbacking it.
Anyways, I will post another list soon. I have had poor luck with the deck, but I am going to attempt something a bit different.
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Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
I went 3-1 today, thought I was severly handicapped. I get to the tournament and find I only have 1 Midnight Haunting (the rest being in my block deck still), and the store was sold out of them x.x
This was also taking place at a new store in Gresham. Guardian Games in Portland was becoming a bit depressing (the whole place was made to look like a dungeon!), so I went to a new store a friend recommended. I'll tweak my sideboard for next week accordingly.
Round 1: Some kind of Delver variant. He unfortunately got crappy draws, and lost 2-0.
Round 2: Against Naya Midrange of some sort. It played like a mix of Kibler Pod and Ramp, but without Pod or Ramp. Kinda strange. Won 2-1.
Round 3: Against Vampires. This was pretty rough with the lack of the Hauntings. Still squeaked out a 2-0 finish on the back of delvers.
Round 4: Netdeck Delver Spike. This guy really had no idea how to play his deck. We would play Ponder after making 2 or 3 other moves, and would be Thoughtscouring me. I have a long history of my deck defeating me in the last round of a tournament, because I mulled to 5 in games 1 and 2. He swept me 0-2, but I really hope I can play this guy again so I can show him how bad some of his plays were
End result: 6-3, netting me 5th place. Not a bad night over all. Didn't get much from the prize support, but I still picked up a Nantuko Shade and a Creeping Tar Pit for my cube.
Also got the promo Ancient Grudge. If only we were still getting Dismembers! haha
As for the metagame, Delver seems popular here as well. I didn't see anyone playing Zombies today, so I'll probably stop siding Celestial Purge. Green based ramp and midrange seemed popular, as did Boros Humans. Time to bring back the Timely Reinforcements!
Another idea: What do you guys think about replacing Fiend Hunter with 2 more Dungeon Geists? One more mana, but better synergy. It doesn't lock down things like Griselbrand's card draw, but O-Ring is still there to answer that sort of threat.
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Another idea: What do you guys think about replacing Fiend Hunter with 2 more Dungeon Geists? One more mana, but better synergy. It doesn't lock down things like Griselbrand's card draw, but O-Ring is still there to answer that sort of threat.
That is what they normally do in U/W Delver decks in tournaments. Hunter is just another O-Ring that is weaker than normal O-rings, so they use Geists instead.
Anyways, sorry I have not posted my revamped deck yet, I've had a really busy week so far. Here is the variant that I will be testing at FNM this week:
Thought Scour, as I have previously stated, was a terrible addition to my deck. The times I got it, I needed removal more than the draw. I used the slot to add in 2 Go for the Throat because in all honesty, my meta is filled with creature-based decks. Vampires, Infect, Delver, and Humans are decks I have faced, and each time I needed one removal to save my skin and did not draw it. The fact that there are several Black decks out there made it an easy choice on which removal to run main.
-2 Runechanter's Pike, +2 Fiend Hunter
The is a choice I did not make lightly. I love, and I mean love, Runechanter's Pike. That being said, I drew it at an inopportune moment in several games for two weeks in a row. I also could not help but feel that I required 2 more creatures for the deck, and since everyone else was running Fiend Hunters, I thought I might as well try him out. Honestly, he is great as removal and to push that last bit of damage through, but I am unsure on whether or not I will keep him.
-1 Vapor Snag and 1 Swamo, +2 Dissipate
This is quite funny, since all I really did was swap two of my cards' positions and lose 1 land. In the 5 games last Friday, I saw a total of 3 Mana Leaks. All 3 were in the same game, and I didn't need them in that game. I needed them in the other 4 games. I decided that adding in 2 Dissipates might be an improvement since that bumps my counter magic up to 6, which is a bit better. I know its not much, but at least I have a greater chance to draw one than before.
-2 Flashfreeze, +2 Doom Blade
Ok, I never used Flashfreeze. Never. Even when I sided them in, they were never needed. It was always a let down to me, since there aren't many G/R decks in my meta.
-1 Oblivion Ring and -1 Dissipate, +2 Timely Reinforcements
This is self explanatory.
On the Mana Base:
Ok, this has been one of the most difficult things to get down, and it always is. I run a total of 3 Black mana sources, 8 White mana sources, and 11 Blue mana sources. I am still trying to work through this and see what I should change.
That is what they normally do in U/W Delver decks in tournaments. Hunter is just another O-Ring that is weaker than normal O-rings, so they use Geists instead.
Anyways, sorry I have not posted my revamped deck yet, I've had a really busy week so far. Here is the variant that I will be testing at FNM this week:
Thought Scour, as I have previously stated, was a terrible addition to my deck. The times I got it, I needed removal more than the draw. I used the slot to add in 2 Go for the Throat because in all honesty, my meta is filled with creature-based decks. Vampires, Infect, Delver, and Humans are decks I have faced, and each time I needed one removal to save my skin and did not draw it. The fact that there are several Black decks out there made it an easy choice on which removal to run main.
-2 Runechanter's Pike, +2 Fiend Hunter
The is a choice I did not make lightly. I love, and I mean love, Runechanter's Pike. That being said, I drew it at an inopportune moment in several games for two weeks in a row. I also could not help but feel that I required 2 more creatures for the deck, and since everyone else was running Fiend Hunters, I thought I might as well try him out. Honestly, he is great as removal and to push that last bit of damage through, but I am unsure on whether or not I will keep him.
-1 Vapor Snag and 1 Swamo, +2 Dissipate
This is quite funny, since all I really did was swap two of my cards' positions and lose 1 land. In the 5 games last Friday, I saw a total of 3 Mana Leaks. All 3 were in the same game, and I didn't need them in that game. I needed them in the other 4 games. I decided that adding in 2 Dissipates might be an improvement since that bumps my counter magic up to 6, which is a bit better. I know its not much, but at least I have a greater chance to draw one than before.
-2 Flashfreeze, +2 Doom Blade
Ok, I never used Flashfreeze. Never. Even when I sided them in, they were never needed. It was always a let down to me, since there aren't many G/R decks in my meta.
-1 Oblivion Ring and -1 Dissipate, +2 Timely Reinforcements
This is self explanatory.
On the Mana Base:
Ok, this has been one of the most difficult things to get down, and it always is. I run a total of 3 Black mana sources, 8 White mana sources, and 11 Blue mana sources. I am still trying to work through this and see what I should change.
I really like this list, I was running a similar list last weekend at the gameday event going 1-1-1 and I also felt like the one thing the deck really needed was some removal. Now coming from a BW token list, as well as a uwb control list, a card I love is oblivion ring. The biggest problem I can see for running it in a delver list is that it doesnt trigger a flip, so I'm thinking I'll run that as opposed to fiend hunter. My biggest question for you is the inclusion of snapcaster mage, and gitaxian probe. Would you include the snapcasters into this list if they were available, and as a 2 of in the list, would scour be a better option for a list with snapcaster for opening up EOT draws as well as the potential to dump a lingering souls into the gy for next turn fb cost? Definately curious on these things as I've got the deck out in front of me now. Either way I'm going to try and take the list to my own FNM tomorrow night.
Chrislofer, no I am not color-screwed because of Fiend Hunter. I have 8 total mana sources that create White mana, 11 that create Blue mana, and 3 that created Black mana. Since I have more UU than WW cards, my main focus was getting the mana for Dissipate and Geists first. In my recent playtests, I have only drawn Fiend Hunter twice without having the proper mana open. Evolving Wilds helps me make sure I have the right mana source needed for what I draw. That being said, I might drop him in favor of Oblivion Ring, but I am unsure on how that will pan out.
Six Islands are fine because my dual lands can use Plains or Swamps to come into play untapped. As for T1, I rarely keep a hand that does not include 1 Island, and something to do the first two or three turns.
Pwnprone, Snapcaster would be a fine addition to the deck as a 2-of. I don't own any, otherwise he'd be in there. He would take the place of Dissipate.
As for Thought Scour vs. Gitaxian Probe, the real question isn't whether one is better than the other, its whether or not you run Runechanter's Pike. If you do not plan on playing the Pike, leave Probes in. If you decide to run the Pike, I could see dropping the Probes. Other than that, its all personal preference. I like to see what my opponent has in their hand so I can plan accordingly.
And finally, yes, Oblivion Ring could replace the Fiend Hunters. It would be a suitable replacement, and given that neither or them flip Delver, it doesn't matter what you run. Just remember though, Fiend Hunter, while weak to some removal, can block your opponent's creatures.
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Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
Beloved: Ok, that's good to hear, since I run pretty much the same mana base, but more in favour for blue, because of 4 Dungeon Geists. I only see pros for running DG instead of FH. DG is a better blocker (and attacker) and benefits from the captain and the anthem. The only con is that the removed creatures abilities are still active/usable unless you have to tap it. Is there something I'm missing here? Or is it just personal preferences?
No, you're not missing anything. Simple fact of the matter is that most of the creatures either tap for their abilities, have to attack for their abilities, or just plain attack. Pros run DG over FH simply because DG has 2 more power, and has Flying, so its not just sitting there.
Heck, Fiend is just a place holder in my deck for more Dungeon Geists.
Anyways, I was just thinking about the shape of my deck, and I might be making a change before tomorrow. It is small, but one that will still be noticeable:
1. FH is weaker than O-Ring. There are more creature-removal than Enchantment-removal.
2. Evil Twin is the cheapest clone that actually EtB as a copy of the creature. I will admit that Cryptoplasma is cheaper on mana, but he does not change right away. If you run into Geist of Saint Traft, you cannot wait for your next upkeep, you need the clone to be ready right away.
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Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
Sadly, I forgot to remove Fiend Hunter from my deck in place of O-Ring, and was stuck using the deck as is. That said, Fiend Hunter was a decent card, but the fact that he only hits creatures made him so much worse than O-Ring.
FNM 1:
Vs. Mono-Green Elves
Game one went by fast. I won with 2 flipped Delvers and 2 Spirit Tokens.
Game two went by a bit slower, thanks to him getting an Ezuri's Archer T2, but eventually sped up once I drew an O-Ring, and had free reign with three flipped Delvers.
1-0 2-0
Vs. U/B Zombies
Game one was almost lost thanks to him getting Diregraf Ghouls turn 1 and 2, and then chipping away at me from there. Eventually I stabilized on the backs of tokens and Favorable Winds, and then drew another Favorable Winds, and more tokens popped out.
Game two I made sure to keep the hand that had 2 Mana Leaks, and Island, a Drowned Catacomb, Glacial Fortress, Delver, and Dungeon Geist. He got off to a shaky start, but my deck powered on through any resistance he put up.
2-0 4-0
Vs. Mono-White Humans
Game one made me realize that this was the same guy I had not beaten in three weeks. I started strong, bouncing his Champions, countering his Honor of the Pure, Throating Thalia when she reared her head, and then road tokens all the way home.
Game two was terrible. I had 3 lands in my first hand, and that was all I ever saw. After 2 champions and several Gather the Townsfolk, I lost in short.
Game three was kinder than game two. Delver was my opener, and a second followed the next turn, along with a Ponder, placing a Doom Blade as my next turn draw. He had my luck in game two, having just 3 land all game. In the end, dual delvers was too much for him.
3-0 6-1
FNM 2
Vs. U/G Infect
Game one, I could tell I was making the guy mad. I was on the play, and set down an Island and my Delver. He played a forest and a Glistener Elf. I flipped Delver, played a Drowned Catacomb, and passed the turn. He played a forest, swung with the Elf, and when I did not block, he immediately pumped him with a Titanic Growth and 4 Mutagenic Growths. I responded with a Go for the Throat, and watched as he slumped back. In the end, I removed every creature he played and just chipped away with Delver.
Game two, I had gotten a good hand, but his was better. In the end, I couldn't do anything once Wild Defiance hit the field.
Game three was the same as two, but far slower, as I accidentally revealed Dissipate when I tapped for my Mana Leak. He was more cautious knowing that I could removed something he needed to win. In the end, it was an unblockable Blighted Agent that took me down.
0-1 1-2
Vs. Mono-White Angels
Game one was me playing removal to kill her angels, and then popping out tokens. She responded with Terminus and Days of Judgements, but I made sure not to flashback my Souls too soon. In the end, she never could stabilize, thanks to me countering and removing all her creatures.
Game two I felt bad afterwards. There is no excuse as to why my deck would run like clockwork against my old friend, but it did. Removal, counters, land, and one Dungeon Geist is all I had seen all game, yet it was enough for me to win. She picked up her cards, glared at me, and I asked, genuinely mind you, if she was mad at me, and she said no, but I knew she was lying.
1-1 3-2
Vs. U/W Delver
Game one was a close one, with our plays mirroring each others almost down to a t. Sadly, the power of Snapcaster was too much for my budget deck to compete with.
Game two, I had made the mistake of taking a one land hand. I paid for it as Saint Traft danced on my face for three whole turns. After I lost, I looked at the next two cards. Land. Frickin. Land.
1-2 3-4
Vs. U/W Tokens
Game one was unusual, as I spent most of the time on the offensive. I had drawn two Favorable Winds, and had proceeded to cast token-generating spell one after another. They guy could not stabilize, and even used Gideon as a shield to earn one more turn to try to stop me. In the end, he couldn't.
Game two was far, far worse for him. Right off the bat, I made it almost impossible for him to play anything with it getting countered, killed, or exiled. He stalled me for 4 whole turns with Gideons, but by doing so, allowed me to get out a Drogskol Captain, two Favorable Winds, and a Dungeon Geist that tapped down a Hero of Bladehold, which watched as his second one ran into a Dissipate, and his third one took a Doom Blade to the face. I ended with 12 Spirit Tokens, each one 3/3. I asked him if he would surrender, and he looked at his hand, or lack there of. He drew, revealed a Day of Judgement, thinking he had an answer, but I revealed my second Dissipate. He sighed, grabbed his stuff, shook my hand, and left.
2-2 5-4
Total W/L: 5-2 11-5
So far, my variant has definitely changed my mind on the deck over all. However, I would like to wrap this post up with the following advice:
Run Favorable Winds over any other Anthem. It is so much better that its stupid.
Yes, Intangible Virtue gives the tokens Vigilance, but the main beaters are not tokens in the end. Honor of the Pure pumps the Spirits, Drogskol, and Doomed Traveler/Fiend Hunter(if you run him), but it misses Delver. Favorable Winds pumps every creature in the deck that is there to deal damage and not just be a removal card or a chump blocker.
And with that, I must be off.
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Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
Ended up going 2-3 (last win was because of a no-show though). Lost to Zombies (1-2), GW Humans (0-2), and Haunted Humans (0-2). Only win was against a sort offbeat zombie combo deck (2-0). Never really felt overwhelmed in any of the matches though. Just had some bad luck flipping Delver in a few of them.
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Standard: White Weenie :symw:, UW Control:symwu:
Two weeks straight without anyone posting? Is the deck to be considered dead then?
Anyways, I did not play in any FNM for the past two weeks, far too busy packing. However, I might be able to get into one today. That being said, I have changed my deck to better match what the original was. In short, I cut out the Black in favor of better White cards, and I am currently trying to get Honor of the Pure for the deck. I plan on a 2-2 split either Intangible or Favorable, still have not decided.
From there, I plan on changing things to better fit my style of play.
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Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
Otherwise I'm all over eBay to try to get a good deal on the Scars dual lands and Snapcaster Mage, but that would move the deck out of this budget level.
Remember, Scars lands will rotate out before too long. And don't buy Snappies until after June 20, when they announce bannings.
No, it's still my "main" deck. Haven't had time to play it lately though.
So you've cut Lingering Souls all together? Mind posting a list?
I pulled a Restoration Angel in a booster, and I'm thinking of adding her instead of a Dungeon Geists. Don't have any good blink targets, except if you want to change the target for said Geists, but the flash ability seems nice. What do you think?
Otherwise I'm all over eBay to try to get a good deal on the Scars dual lands and Snapcaster Mage, but that would move the deck out of this budget level.
It is actually just a carbon copy of bone_doc's list on page 3, minus the 2 Scars lands for 2 M12 lands. I ended up going 2-1 at the FNM, taking 2nd from a guy that was 2-0 who had 3 games in the last match.
The list I plan on testing next time around is a bit different, but will post the list later. For now, sleep.
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Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
I've been very happy with Winds > Honor. Pumping Delver is so much better than I thought, and it saved me on many occasions. It also helps the colours out in the deck, because now I can cut Fiend Hunter for Dungeon Geists. There were some times I wished I had Hunter instead of Geists, but Geists did a whole lot better than Hunter more often and were easier to cast.
I got land screwed a lot, so I'm thinking of cutting something (maybe Travelers?) to up the land count by 2.
Game one was not even close. I had played Delver T1, just to have him use Human Frailty on him. T2 I kept mana open, but he just swung with Gravecrawler. T3 I played Moorland Haunt. He swung with Gravecrawler again, only to run into a 1/1 Spirit token. After that, it was downhill for him. I drew 2 Drogskols, followed by Midnight Haunting and Honor of the Pure. He went to cast Skinrender, but I countered it. He then returned it with Disentomb, and then cast it again on his turn, only to realize what 2 Drogskols do, and ended up killing his on Skinrender. He had dropped me to 15 life before I ended it.
Game two was far more punishing. He got 2 hits with Gravecrawler in and 3 with Reassembling Skeleton before I stabilized. He had a Demonic Taskmaster out, but I had 2 Honor of the Pures out, and drew into a 3rd one, overwhelming his defenses quickly.
1-0 2-0
Vs. Goblins
Game one was very, very close. He ended up dropping me to 6 life, and activating Shrine of Burning Rage for 7. He had 3 life left, and I had more than lethal waiting.
Game two was far closer. I, again, had 3 Honor of the Pures out, alongside 2 Drogskols, 2 Soldier tokens(via Timely), and 2 Spirit Tokens. He was at 1 life, had 1 Chieftan, Runechanter's Pike, and Spikeshot Elder. I was at 11 life, and Pike was on Elder. He had 7 mana open, cast Shock on me, and hit me twice with Elder's ability. I had been hoping for an Oblivion Ring, but it didn't show. Nor did Fiend Hunter.
1-1 2-2
Vs. U/R Flashback Delver
Game one was interesting. He got his Delver out, I got mine out. His flipped and hit me for 3, mine flipped and hit him for 3, and then I drew my second Delver, and then a 3rd. Last two flipped at once, and overran his deck.
Game two was more of me toying with the guy. I know, its not polite, but I was curious as to how his deck worked. Sadly, he did not touch me, at all. I leaked his draw and burn cards, O-Ringed his Burning Vengeance, and just kept applying the pressure. In the end, he conceded when he saw two Drogskols appear.
2-1 4-2
Overall, the deck wasn't that bad. In fact, I liked it better than the variant I had been playing. Now, I have made some alterations since yesterday with the help of some friends, one of which frequents SCG Tournaments.
This deck just explodes on T2. Townsfolk, Mana Leak, 7 Anthems, and Runechanter's Pike all make T2 far more beneficial than the last variant, in which T3-T4 was when the deck hit its stride. Now, I will go over some of the card choices, as to better explain why I chose what I did.
1. Only 3 Delvers - Ok, I love Delver to death, but here is what I have realized: We are trying to run two decks in one. Delver is the second best blue card out there, with the first being Snapcaster Mage. That said, our deck is mostly White. Our Anthems are mostly for White cards and tokens/Spirits. Delver is great, but I did not always want to see him in my first hand, so I cut just one to allow for cards that would work a bit better in the deck.
2. Return of Runechanter - This variant is far more efficient on mana. I was not even going to put it back into my deck, but my friend Kev told me it would work great now that the deck had more ways to utilize it.
3. 2 Mana Leaks - Ok, one problem I initially had with the deck is drawing Mana Leaks when I didn't want them. I had originally cut just one, but Kev told me that more and more people were using Cavern of Souls, and that Mana Leak was going to be more and more useless because of it. He suggested I drop it to 2, and use the extra slot of another land.
4. Gather the Townsfolk - Ok, I had been toying around with this card for a while, and I am not disappointed with it. I mean, yes, my 2-drops are all competing against each other, but the thing is, Gathering is great at almost any point in time when I need blockers, or more creatures.
5. Removal of the Removal - Game one I want to go by fast. I want to push out that win quickly, and the way I do that is by playing token after token, and just slamming them through any defense. Game two I will take my time and bring the removal in for what I need.
Now, nothing is set in stone, and who knows? I might remove the Pikes again to put Dungeon Geists or Fiend Hunters main.
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Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
I understand what you mean about the Delvers. In fact I was thinking of cutting back on those myself. However, I decided against this because they are just so incredibly powerful and can just steal games.
It feels kind of like not playing a single Black Lotus in a Vintage Parfait deck, just because it runs Stony Silence. They also fuel Moorland Haunt, which is the main reason I still have Doomed Traveler here.
Runechanter's Pike is a respectable card. Have you considered running 1-2 Thoughtscour because of it? It also feeds Moorland Haunt and Lingering Souls.
I would consider running Pike myself if I didn't already feel hesitant about the permanent count in my deck already. Which brings me to a side point: I'm thinking of cutting back the O-Ring count in my deck to just 1-2, maybe adding in something like Dismember. This would just be to fuel Delver a little more, and lower the curve of the deck slightly. It also takes the strain off of my mana just a bit more as well.
2 Leaks are fine considering how much more aggressive you are than me. You're more like a Haunted Humans deck, which uses them for mainly sweeper protection (I assume), whereas I'm on a tempo game plan that lands a couple large threats and beats down.
Regarding the rest of your points: I don't have much to say. Let me know how the testing goes!
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As for my deck, I'm liking the changes I've made. Making it more blue-based with Favorable Winds > Honor and Dungeon Geists > Hunter makes the mana run much more smoothly.
Additionally, these cards have proven to be vast improvements over the former cards. Winds pumping Delver was very underrated by me, and the fact that it pumped Dungeon Geists was my last push to put it in the deck.
Favorable Winds also did a lot of work for me in the zombie matchup I had on Friday. Flipped Delver being able to block the 1-drop zombies was a huge blowout for my opponent. The same goes for my casual testing against my friend running B/W Tokens: Delver not dying to Lingering Souls double-block was awesome, and the fact that he still ate two tokens if they had an anthem was fantastic as well.
On the other hand, Dungeon Geists gets very large very easily, and can win you the game by itself with an anthem or two. Not being able to be targeted with a Captain out is another huge point in his favor. There were times I wished it was a Fiend Hunter, but the fact of the matter is that I wouldn't have been able to cast Hunter half the time anyway. Besides, there were even moments where Geists got the job done and Hunter didn't.
And I can't begin to describe what these changes did to my mana! Ditching the WW required for Fiend Hunter, and the early white needed for Honor was fantastic. Sure, Traveler -> Honor can't happen anymore, but that is so small at this point compared to the mana differences it gave me! (Traveler is on the chopping block anyway).
The addition of Geists did raise my curve, though, and I will be adding in another land over a Traveler.
If I could optimize this, I would probably cut the 2 remaining Travelers for 2 more Images. Ah well, not worth the money at this point in my opinion.
My deck does resemble Haunted Humans, but I am lacking the main cards for Haunted. Champions, Heroes, and Crusaders are all currently out of my price range, with the latter 2 leaving in a few months.
Problem with Thought Scour is simple: I rely on cards that do not all have flashback, and I lack Snapcaster. If I ran more cards with flashback, I would run Thought Scour.
I use leaks to ensure that boardsweeps do not happen. However, not every deck runs boardsweepers, so they are also in there to make sure that no threat lands too early.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
So far, I have noticed that my deck does, as I had said before, explode into action on T2 far more than ever before. In fact, it is far more consistent that I had hoped for.
Problem with that, however, is what it will do to my mana base. It would leave T3, however, to my Hauntings and Souls, and gives me a T4 creature that is actually decent. Yes, the downfall is that the Spirits lose Hexproof, but at the same time, they are not vulnerable to most burns on T4 thanks to the anthems.
Pros:
Angel pumps everyone, whether they are tokens or not.
3/3 for 4 is great for an anthem creature.
Shuts down Pod decks.
Stops forced sacrifice cards.
Stops players from using life as a resource.
Out of most burn spell ranges.
Cons:
Costs 1WWW.
Does not give Hexproof.
Eats most removal not used on Delver.
All in all, I think the pros outweigh the cons, minus the mana base. But then again, she pumps anything that is not black, and stops sacrifices of creatures and life.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
I never played Virtue. However, if you read my post here, I do talk a bit about switching Favourable Winds in for Honors.
Basically, I removed Fiend Hunter for Dungeon Geists. Since Winds was also blue and pumped the Geists, I added that in. This helped my mana out a lot making it primarily blue-based, needing very little white until much later in the game.
My main defense of Honor > Winds was that Turn 1 Doomed -> Turn 2 Honor was so powerful, and that Doomed needs a boost much more than Delver. However, I have come to find that the Delver boost is nothing short of incredible. It allows him to block the 1-drops from the Zombie deck unhindered, and he then needs to be double-blocked by anthemed tokens in order to die, rather than just trading with the front end of Lingering Souls.
EDIT: @Beloved: Double-Captain is so good, but our lists are also very different. Mine has the Images, and more Spirit support (Dungeon Geists). It might work for you without them.
FNM Results: 2-3 13th place out 18
Vs. RWB Tokens
Game 1: Blood Artist was a pain. He cast Divine Reckoning when I had 4 tokens, a flipped Delver, and a Captain out, forcing me to 5 damage while he gained 5, and after that it was a lost cause.
Game 2: Kept a poor hand with just 2 lands, and that was all the land I saw. Island, Ponder, no land so I shuffled. Draw Gitaxian Probe, pay 2, draw another Ponder. Passed turn, he played a mountain and Stromkirk Noble. I drew, played my second Island, cast Ponder, no land, shuffled it away, drew another Ponder, cast again, still no land, shuffled, drew Lingering Souls. For the next 4 turns I was without land. I lose, pick up the top card, and it was a Plains.
Vs. Mono Red
Game 1: Got land flooded. I can't recall much because my phone was going off every few seconds. I know it ended with me taking a Bonfire to the dome, but thats about it.
Game 2: Started off strong with Delver, flipped him T2, and then I ran into problems. he Shocked Delver, cast Arc Trails when I played any tokens, and then used Volt Charge on a Strokirk Berserker to boost him to 7/7. No snags, no Mana Leaks, not one thing of removal or counter came up.
Vs. Mono-White Angels
Game 1: I was playing to relax now, and the person I was playing was a friend, so they understood. Ended up getting 14 4/4 Spirits out, only to run into DoJ. After that, I just laughed. She won with an army of 4/4 Angels from Moonsilver Spear
Game 2: Delver flipped T2 was too much for her to race, and I ended up winning on T5, just as she was building steam.
Game 3: Spirits popped rather quickly, and despite the fact that she was at 35 life, I won once 2 Favorable Winds landed.
Vs. Unknown
Honestly, my opponent dropped out, so nothing even happened.
Vs. Mono White Humans
Game 1: Dual Delvers on T2, both flipped T3, and then Favorable Winds T4 was too much for him to race.
Game 2: Sadly, my deck thought it would be fun to make me mull to 5, and then watch as I struggled on 2 Islands and no White mana with 2 Lingering Souls and a Midnight Haunt in hand.
Game 3: I admit, this was a troll game. By troll game, I mean he was going to win, but I wasn't about to make it easy. I snagged a champion, countered a Thalia, and then sat back and defended myself with tokens for 3 turns in a row. He would declare attackers, I'd cast Midnight Haunting and block all but his Doomed Traveler. Sadly, on T4, I drew a Plains to compliment my 2 Mana Leaks, and with 1 life left, it didn't matter.
Ok, so that is enough of that. The only changes I made before the game was:
-1 Evolving Wilds
-1 Swamp
-2 O-Ring
-1 Dissipate
+2 Drowned Catacomb
+1 Vapor Snag
+2 Thought Scour
First and foremost, Thought Scour was a terrible choice. That is being removed, but not for a blue or white card. I am, instead, going to focus on something that the deck lacks. I have noticed a trend of needing removal, but only having 4-6 removal in the deck. Since I have more sources for Black mana, I am going to start branching into Esper Delver Spirits. I already started by running Sever the Bloodlines in SB, but I feel that its not enough.
Also, on the note of Sever the Bloodlines, I will say that I used it against the RWB Tokens deck and the Angels Deck. It worked out better than I hoped, and even forced the RWB deck to use Nevermore to stop me from flashbacking it.
Anyways, I will post another list soon. I have had poor luck with the deck, but I am going to attempt something a bit different.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
This was also taking place at a new store in Gresham. Guardian Games in Portland was becoming a bit depressing (the whole place was made to look like a dungeon!), so I went to a new store a friend recommended. I'll tweak my sideboard for next week accordingly.
Round 1: Some kind of Delver variant. He unfortunately got crappy draws, and lost 2-0.
Round 2: Against Naya Midrange of some sort. It played like a mix of Kibler Pod and Ramp, but without Pod or Ramp. Kinda strange. Won 2-1.
Round 3: Against Vampires. This was pretty rough with the lack of the Hauntings. Still squeaked out a 2-0 finish on the back of delvers.
Round 4: Netdeck Delver Spike. This guy really had no idea how to play his deck. We would play Ponder after making 2 or 3 other moves, and would be Thoughtscouring me. I have a long history of my deck defeating me in the last round of a tournament, because I mulled to 5 in games 1 and 2. He swept me 0-2, but I really hope I can play this guy again so I can show him how bad some of his plays were
End result: 6-3, netting me 5th place. Not a bad night over all. Didn't get much from the prize support, but I still picked up a Nantuko Shade and a Creeping Tar Pit for my cube.
Also got the promo Ancient Grudge. If only we were still getting Dismembers! haha
As for the metagame, Delver seems popular here as well. I didn't see anyone playing Zombies today, so I'll probably stop siding Celestial Purge. Green based ramp and midrange seemed popular, as did Boros Humans. Time to bring back the Timely Reinforcements!
Another idea: What do you guys think about replacing Fiend Hunter with 2 more Dungeon Geists? One more mana, but better synergy. It doesn't lock down things like Griselbrand's card draw, but O-Ring is still there to answer that sort of threat.
EDH: Captain Sisay Tokens
Standard: White Weenie :symw:, UW Control:symwu:
That is what they normally do in U/W Delver decks in tournaments. Hunter is just another O-Ring that is weaker than normal O-rings, so they use Geists instead.
Anyways, sorry I have not posted my revamped deck yet, I've had a really busy week so far. Here is the variant that I will be testing at FNM this week:
6 Island
5 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Glacial Fortress
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Moorland Haunt
Creatures: 11
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Drogskol Captian
2 Dungeon Geist
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Ponder
4 Mana Leak
4 Lingering Souls
4 Midnight Haunting
3 Vapor Snag
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Go For The Throat
2 Dissipate
Others: 3
2 Favorable Winds
1 Intangible Virtue
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Celestial Purge
2 Doom Blade
2 Revoke Existence
2 Sever the Bloodline
1 Vapor Snag
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Divine Offering
-2 Thought Scour(FNM Change)
-2 Runechanter's Pike
-1 Vapor Snag
-1 Swamp
+2 Go For The Throat
+2 Fiend Hunter
+2 Dissipate(from SB)
Sideboard Changes:
-1 Oblivion Ring
-2 Flashfreeze
-2 Dissipate(moved to main)
+2 Doom Blade
+1 Vapor Snag
+2 Timely Reinforcements
I will admit that the last FNM left a real bad taste in my mouth, and I am seeking to rectify 2 weeks of going 2-3-0. I will explain my changes, and the reasons why I made them.
1. -2 Thought Scour, +2 Go For the Throat
Thought Scour, as I have previously stated, was a terrible addition to my deck. The times I got it, I needed removal more than the draw. I used the slot to add in 2 Go for the Throat because in all honesty, my meta is filled with creature-based decks. Vampires, Infect, Delver, and Humans are decks I have faced, and each time I needed one removal to save my skin and did not draw it. The fact that there are several Black decks out there made it an easy choice on which removal to run main.
-2 Runechanter's Pike, +2 Fiend Hunter
The is a choice I did not make lightly. I love, and I mean love, Runechanter's Pike. That being said, I drew it at an inopportune moment in several games for two weeks in a row. I also could not help but feel that I required 2 more creatures for the deck, and since everyone else was running Fiend Hunters, I thought I might as well try him out. Honestly, he is great as removal and to push that last bit of damage through, but I am unsure on whether or not I will keep him.
-1 Vapor Snag and 1 Swamo, +2 Dissipate
This is quite funny, since all I really did was swap two of my cards' positions and lose 1 land. In the 5 games last Friday, I saw a total of 3 Mana Leaks. All 3 were in the same game, and I didn't need them in that game. I needed them in the other 4 games. I decided that adding in 2 Dissipates might be an improvement since that bumps my counter magic up to 6, which is a bit better. I know its not much, but at least I have a greater chance to draw one than before.
-2 Flashfreeze, +2 Doom Blade
Ok, I never used Flashfreeze. Never. Even when I sided them in, they were never needed. It was always a let down to me, since there aren't many G/R decks in my meta.
-1 Oblivion Ring and -1 Dissipate, +2 Timely Reinforcements
This is self explanatory.
On the Mana Base:
Ok, this has been one of the most difficult things to get down, and it always is. I run a total of 3 Black mana sources, 8 White mana sources, and 11 Blue mana sources. I am still trying to work through this and see what I should change.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
EDH: Captain Sisay Tokens
Standard: White Weenie :symw:, UW Control:symwu:
I really like this list, I was running a similar list last weekend at the gameday event going 1-1-1 and I also felt like the one thing the deck really needed was some removal. Now coming from a BW token list, as well as a uwb control list, a card I love is oblivion ring. The biggest problem I can see for running it in a delver list is that it doesnt trigger a flip, so I'm thinking I'll run that as opposed to fiend hunter. My biggest question for you is the inclusion of snapcaster mage, and gitaxian probe. Would you include the snapcasters into this list if they were available, and as a 2 of in the list, would scour be a better option for a list with snapcaster for opening up EOT draws as well as the potential to dump a lingering souls into the gy for next turn fb cost? Definately curious on these things as I've got the deck out in front of me now. Either way I'm going to try and take the list to my own FNM tomorrow night.
Six Islands are fine because my dual lands can use Plains or Swamps to come into play untapped. As for T1, I rarely keep a hand that does not include 1 Island, and something to do the first two or three turns.
Pwnprone, Snapcaster would be a fine addition to the deck as a 2-of. I don't own any, otherwise he'd be in there. He would take the place of Dissipate.
As for Thought Scour vs. Gitaxian Probe, the real question isn't whether one is better than the other, its whether or not you run Runechanter's Pike. If you do not plan on playing the Pike, leave Probes in. If you decide to run the Pike, I could see dropping the Probes. Other than that, its all personal preference. I like to see what my opponent has in their hand so I can plan accordingly.
And finally, yes, Oblivion Ring could replace the Fiend Hunters. It would be a suitable replacement, and given that neither or them flip Delver, it doesn't matter what you run. Just remember though, Fiend Hunter, while weak to some removal, can block your opponent's creatures.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
No, you're not missing anything. Simple fact of the matter is that most of the creatures either tap for their abilities, have to attack for their abilities, or just plain attack. Pros run DG over FH simply because DG has 2 more power, and has Flying, so its not just sitting there.
Heck, Fiend is just a place holder in my deck for more Dungeon Geists.
Anyways, I was just thinking about the shape of my deck, and I might be making a change before tomorrow. It is small, but one that will still be noticeable:
-2 Fiend Hunter
+2 Oblivion Ring(from SB)
+2 Evil Twin(to SB)
The reason for the above changes are simple.
1. FH is weaker than O-Ring. There are more creature-removal than Enchantment-removal.
2. Evil Twin is the cheapest clone that actually EtB as a copy of the creature. I will admit that Cryptoplasma is cheaper on mana, but he does not change right away. If you run into Geist of Saint Traft, you cannot wait for your next upkeep, you need the clone to be ready right away.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
I actually have 2 separate FNM results to post tonight. First, as always, the current variant I ran.
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Drowned Catacomb
2 Moorland Haunt
2 Evolving Wilds
6 Island
4 Plains
1 Swamp
Creatures: 11
4 Delver of Secrets
3 Drogskol Captain
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Dungeon Geist
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Ponder
4 Lingering Souls
4 Mana Leak
3 Vapor Snag
2 Dissipate
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Go for the Throat
Others: 3
3 Favorable Winds
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Evil Twin
2 Celestial Purge
2 Revoke Existence
2 Sever the Bloodline
2 Doom Blade
1 Vapor Snag
1 Mind Control
1 Divine Offering
Sadly, I forgot to remove Fiend Hunter from my deck in place of O-Ring, and was stuck using the deck as is. That said, Fiend Hunter was a decent card, but the fact that he only hits creatures made him so much worse than O-Ring.
FNM 1:
Vs. Mono-Green Elves
Game one went by fast. I won with 2 flipped Delvers and 2 Spirit Tokens.
Game two went by a bit slower, thanks to him getting an Ezuri's Archer T2, but eventually sped up once I drew an O-Ring, and had free reign with three flipped Delvers.
1-0 2-0
Vs. U/B Zombies
Game one was almost lost thanks to him getting Diregraf Ghouls turn 1 and 2, and then chipping away at me from there. Eventually I stabilized on the backs of tokens and Favorable Winds, and then drew another Favorable Winds, and more tokens popped out.
Game two I made sure to keep the hand that had 2 Mana Leaks, and Island, a Drowned Catacomb, Glacial Fortress, Delver, and Dungeon Geist. He got off to a shaky start, but my deck powered on through any resistance he put up.
2-0 4-0
Vs. Mono-White Humans
Game one made me realize that this was the same guy I had not beaten in three weeks. I started strong, bouncing his Champions, countering his Honor of the Pure, Throating Thalia when she reared her head, and then road tokens all the way home.
Game two was terrible. I had 3 lands in my first hand, and that was all I ever saw. After 2 champions and several Gather the Townsfolk, I lost in short.
Game three was kinder than game two. Delver was my opener, and a second followed the next turn, along with a Ponder, placing a Doom Blade as my next turn draw. He had my luck in game two, having just 3 land all game. In the end, dual delvers was too much for him.
3-0 6-1
FNM 2
Vs. U/G Infect
Game one, I could tell I was making the guy mad. I was on the play, and set down an Island and my Delver. He played a forest and a Glistener Elf. I flipped Delver, played a Drowned Catacomb, and passed the turn. He played a forest, swung with the Elf, and when I did not block, he immediately pumped him with a Titanic Growth and 4 Mutagenic Growths. I responded with a Go for the Throat, and watched as he slumped back. In the end, I removed every creature he played and just chipped away with Delver.
Game two, I had gotten a good hand, but his was better. In the end, I couldn't do anything once Wild Defiance hit the field.
Game three was the same as two, but far slower, as I accidentally revealed Dissipate when I tapped for my Mana Leak. He was more cautious knowing that I could removed something he needed to win. In the end, it was an unblockable Blighted Agent that took me down.
0-1 1-2
Vs. Mono-White Angels
Game one was me playing removal to kill her angels, and then popping out tokens. She responded with Terminus and Days of Judgements, but I made sure not to flashback my Souls too soon. In the end, she never could stabilize, thanks to me countering and removing all her creatures.
Game two I felt bad afterwards. There is no excuse as to why my deck would run like clockwork against my old friend, but it did. Removal, counters, land, and one Dungeon Geist is all I had seen all game, yet it was enough for me to win. She picked up her cards, glared at me, and I asked, genuinely mind you, if she was mad at me, and she said no, but I knew she was lying.
1-1 3-2
Vs. U/W Delver
Game one was a close one, with our plays mirroring each others almost down to a t. Sadly, the power of Snapcaster was too much for my budget deck to compete with.
Game two, I had made the mistake of taking a one land hand. I paid for it as Saint Traft danced on my face for three whole turns. After I lost, I looked at the next two cards. Land. Frickin. Land.
1-2 3-4
Vs. U/W Tokens
Game one was unusual, as I spent most of the time on the offensive. I had drawn two Favorable Winds, and had proceeded to cast token-generating spell one after another. They guy could not stabilize, and even used Gideon as a shield to earn one more turn to try to stop me. In the end, he couldn't.
Game two was far, far worse for him. Right off the bat, I made it almost impossible for him to play anything with it getting countered, killed, or exiled. He stalled me for 4 whole turns with Gideons, but by doing so, allowed me to get out a Drogskol Captain, two Favorable Winds, and a Dungeon Geist that tapped down a Hero of Bladehold, which watched as his second one ran into a Dissipate, and his third one took a Doom Blade to the face. I ended with 12 Spirit Tokens, each one 3/3. I asked him if he would surrender, and he looked at his hand, or lack there of. He drew, revealed a Day of Judgement, thinking he had an answer, but I revealed my second Dissipate. He sighed, grabbed his stuff, shook my hand, and left.
2-2 5-4
Total W/L: 5-2 11-5
So far, my variant has definitely changed my mind on the deck over all. However, I would like to wrap this post up with the following advice:
Run Favorable Winds over any other Anthem. It is so much better that its stupid.
Yes, Intangible Virtue gives the tokens Vigilance, but the main beaters are not tokens in the end. Honor of the Pure pumps the Spirits, Drogskol, and Doomed Traveler/Fiend Hunter(if you run him), but it misses Delver. Favorable Winds pumps every creature in the deck that is there to deal damage and not just be a removal card or a chump blocker.
And with that, I must be off.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
Ended up going 2-3 (last win was because of a no-show though). Lost to Zombies (1-2), GW Humans (0-2), and Haunted Humans (0-2). Only win was against a sort offbeat zombie combo deck (2-0). Never really felt overwhelmed in any of the matches though. Just had some bad luck flipping Delver in a few of them.
EDH: Captain Sisay Tokens
Standard: White Weenie :symw:, UW Control:symwu:
Anyways, I did not play in any FNM for the past two weeks, far too busy packing. However, I might be able to get into one today. That being said, I have changed my deck to better match what the original was. In short, I cut out the Black in favor of better White cards, and I am currently trying to get Honor of the Pure for the deck. I plan on a 2-2 split either Intangible or Favorable, still have not decided.
From there, I plan on changing things to better fit my style of play.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
Remember, Scars lands will rotate out before too long. And don't buy Snappies until after June 20, when they announce bannings.
It is actually just a carbon copy of bone_doc's list on page 3, minus the 2 Scars lands for 2 M12 lands. I ended up going 2-1 at the FNM, taking 2nd from a guy that was 2-0 who had 3 games in the last match.
The list I plan on testing next time around is a bit different, but will post the list later. For now, sleep.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Drogskol Captain
3 Doomed Traveler
2 Phantasmal Image
2 Dungeon Geists
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Vapor Snag
4 Mana Leak
4 Midnight Haunting
3 Favorable Winds
3 Oblivion Ring
Land: 19
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Seachrome Coast
2 Moorland Haunt
8 Island
3 Plains
I've been very happy with Winds > Honor. Pumping Delver is so much better than I thought, and it saved me on many occasions. It also helps the colours out in the deck, because now I can cut Fiend Hunter for Dungeon Geists. There were some times I wished I had Hunter instead of Geists, but Geists did a whole lot better than Hunter more often and were easier to cast.
I got land screwed a lot, so I'm thinking of cutting something (maybe Travelers?) to up the land count by 2.
It was the same with the one loss I had.
4 Glacial Fortress
7 Plains
6 Island
2 Moorland Haunt
Creautres: 14
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Drogskol Captain
4 Doomed Traveler
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Honor of the Pure
3 Oblivion Ring
Instants/Sorcery: 20
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Mana Leak
4 Vapor Snag
2 Evolving Wilds
1 Swamp
3 Lingering Souls
2 Dungeon Geists
2 Revoke Existence
2 Dissipate
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Divine Offering
Vs. Zombies
Game one was not even close. I had played Delver T1, just to have him use Human Frailty on him. T2 I kept mana open, but he just swung with Gravecrawler. T3 I played Moorland Haunt. He swung with Gravecrawler again, only to run into a 1/1 Spirit token. After that, it was downhill for him. I drew 2 Drogskols, followed by Midnight Haunting and Honor of the Pure. He went to cast Skinrender, but I countered it. He then returned it with Disentomb, and then cast it again on his turn, only to realize what 2 Drogskols do, and ended up killing his on Skinrender. He had dropped me to 15 life before I ended it.
Game two was far more punishing. He got 2 hits with Gravecrawler in and 3 with Reassembling Skeleton before I stabilized. He had a Demonic Taskmaster out, but I had 2 Honor of the Pures out, and drew into a 3rd one, overwhelming his defenses quickly.
1-0 2-0
Vs. Goblins
Game one was very, very close. He ended up dropping me to 6 life, and activating Shrine of Burning Rage for 7. He had 3 life left, and I had more than lethal waiting.
Game two was far closer. I, again, had 3 Honor of the Pures out, alongside 2 Drogskols, 2 Soldier tokens(via Timely), and 2 Spirit Tokens. He was at 1 life, had 1 Chieftan, Runechanter's Pike, and Spikeshot Elder. I was at 11 life, and Pike was on Elder. He had 7 mana open, cast Shock on me, and hit me twice with Elder's ability. I had been hoping for an Oblivion Ring, but it didn't show. Nor did Fiend Hunter.
1-1 2-2
Vs. U/R Flashback Delver
Game one was interesting. He got his Delver out, I got mine out. His flipped and hit me for 3, mine flipped and hit him for 3, and then I drew my second Delver, and then a 3rd. Last two flipped at once, and overran his deck.
Game two was more of me toying with the guy. I know, its not polite, but I was curious as to how his deck worked. Sadly, he did not touch me, at all. I leaked his draw and burn cards, O-Ringed his Burning Vengeance, and just kept applying the pressure. In the end, he conceded when he saw two Drogskols appear.
2-1 4-2
Overall, the deck wasn't that bad. In fact, I liked it better than the variant I had been playing. Now, I have made some alterations since yesterday with the help of some friends, one of which frequents SCG Tournaments.
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Moorland Haunt
2 Evolving Wilds
6 Island
5 Plains
1 Swamp
Creatures: 11
4 Doomed Traveler
4 Drogskol Captain
3 Delver of Secrets
4 Honor of the Pure
3 Intangible Virtue
2 Runechanter's Pike
Instants/Sorcery: 20
4 Lingering Souls
4 Gather the Townsfolk
4 Ponder
3 Midnight Haunting
3 Vapor Snag
2 Mana Leak
2 Fiend Hunter
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Celestial Pure
2 Revoke Existence
2 Dissipate
2 Dungeon Geists
1 Divine Offering
Mana Curve(main deck):
0cc - 0
1cc - 14
2cc - 15
3cc - 11
4cc - 0
This deck just explodes on T2. Townsfolk, Mana Leak, 7 Anthems, and Runechanter's Pike all make T2 far more beneficial than the last variant, in which T3-T4 was when the deck hit its stride. Now, I will go over some of the card choices, as to better explain why I chose what I did.
1. Only 3 Delvers - Ok, I love Delver to death, but here is what I have realized: We are trying to run two decks in one. Delver is the second best blue card out there, with the first being Snapcaster Mage. That said, our deck is mostly White. Our Anthems are mostly for White cards and tokens/Spirits. Delver is great, but I did not always want to see him in my first hand, so I cut just one to allow for cards that would work a bit better in the deck.
2. Return of Runechanter - This variant is far more efficient on mana. I was not even going to put it back into my deck, but my friend Kev told me it would work great now that the deck had more ways to utilize it.
3. 2 Mana Leaks - Ok, one problem I initially had with the deck is drawing Mana Leaks when I didn't want them. I had originally cut just one, but Kev told me that more and more people were using Cavern of Souls, and that Mana Leak was going to be more and more useless because of it. He suggested I drop it to 2, and use the extra slot of another land.
4. Gather the Townsfolk - Ok, I had been toying around with this card for a while, and I am not disappointed with it. I mean, yes, my 2-drops are all competing against each other, but the thing is, Gathering is great at almost any point in time when I need blockers, or more creatures.
5. Removal of the Removal - Game one I want to go by fast. I want to push out that win quickly, and the way I do that is by playing token after token, and just slamming them through any defense. Game two I will take my time and bring the removal in for what I need.
Now, nothing is set in stone, and who knows? I might remove the Pikes again to put Dungeon Geists or Fiend Hunters main.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
It feels kind of like not playing a single Black Lotus in a Vintage Parfait deck, just because it runs Stony Silence. They also fuel Moorland Haunt, which is the main reason I still have Doomed Traveler here.
Runechanter's Pike is a respectable card. Have you considered running 1-2 Thoughtscour because of it? It also feeds Moorland Haunt and Lingering Souls.
I would consider running Pike myself if I didn't already feel hesitant about the permanent count in my deck already. Which brings me to a side point: I'm thinking of cutting back the O-Ring count in my deck to just 1-2, maybe adding in something like Dismember. This would just be to fuel Delver a little more, and lower the curve of the deck slightly. It also takes the strain off of my mana just a bit more as well.
2 Leaks are fine considering how much more aggressive you are than me. You're more like a Haunted Humans deck, which uses them for mainly sweeper protection (I assume), whereas I'm on a tempo game plan that lands a couple large threats and beats down.
Regarding the rest of your points: I don't have much to say. Let me know how the testing goes!
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As for my deck, I'm liking the changes I've made. Making it more blue-based with Favorable Winds > Honor and Dungeon Geists > Hunter makes the mana run much more smoothly.
Additionally, these cards have proven to be vast improvements over the former cards. Winds pumping Delver was very underrated by me, and the fact that it pumped Dungeon Geists was my last push to put it in the deck.
Favorable Winds also did a lot of work for me in the zombie matchup I had on Friday. Flipped Delver being able to block the 1-drop zombies was a huge blowout for my opponent. The same goes for my casual testing against my friend running B/W Tokens: Delver not dying to Lingering Souls double-block was awesome, and the fact that he still ate two tokens if they had an anthem was fantastic as well.
On the other hand, Dungeon Geists gets very large very easily, and can win you the game by itself with an anthem or two. Not being able to be targeted with a Captain out is another huge point in his favor. There were times I wished it was a Fiend Hunter, but the fact of the matter is that I wouldn't have been able to cast Hunter half the time anyway. Besides, there were even moments where Geists got the job done and Hunter didn't.
And I can't begin to describe what these changes did to my mana! Ditching the WW required for Fiend Hunter, and the early white needed for Honor was fantastic. Sure, Traveler -> Honor can't happen anymore, but that is so small at this point compared to the mana differences it gave me! (Traveler is on the chopping block anyway).
The addition of Geists did raise my curve, though, and I will be adding in another land over a Traveler.
If I could optimize this, I would probably cut the 2 remaining Travelers for 2 more Images. Ah well, not worth the money at this point in my opinion.
Problem with Thought Scour is simple: I rely on cards that do not all have flashback, and I lack Snapcaster. If I ran more cards with flashback, I would run Thought Scour.
I use leaks to ensure that boardsweeps do not happen. However, not every deck runs boardsweepers, so they are also in there to make sure that no threat lands too early.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
True, it is an accurate comparison. I still have some tempo, but I also focus more heavily on aggro. Will let you know how the testing goes.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
I run it for the same reason you stated: It's too rough on the budget manabase.
I am thinking about one slight change though.
-4 Drogskol Captain
+4 Angel of Jubilation
Problem with that, however, is what it will do to my mana base. It would leave T3, however, to my Hauntings and Souls, and gives me a T4 creature that is actually decent. Yes, the downfall is that the Spirits lose Hexproof, but at the same time, they are not vulnerable to most burns on T4 thanks to the anthems.
Pros:
Angel pumps everyone, whether they are tokens or not.
3/3 for 4 is great for an anthem creature.
Shuts down Pod decks.
Stops forced sacrifice cards.
Stops players from using life as a resource.
Out of most burn spell ranges.
Cons:
Costs 1WWW.
Does not give Hexproof.
Eats most removal not used on Delver.
All in all, I think the pros outweigh the cons, minus the mana base. But then again, she pumps anything that is not black, and stops sacrifices of creatures and life.
Currently Running:
Nothing, I have just gotten back after a long hiatus, and am just now starting to rebuild my collection.
EDH: Captain Sisay Tokens
Standard: White Weenie :symw:, UW Control:symwu:
Basically, I removed Fiend Hunter for Dungeon Geists. Since Winds was also blue and pumped the Geists, I added that in. This helped my mana out a lot making it primarily blue-based, needing very little white until much later in the game.
My main defense of Honor > Winds was that Turn 1 Doomed -> Turn 2 Honor was so powerful, and that Doomed needs a boost much more than Delver. However, I have come to find that the Delver boost is nothing short of incredible. It allows him to block the 1-drops from the Zombie deck unhindered, and he then needs to be double-blocked by anthemed tokens in order to die, rather than just trading with the front end of Lingering Souls.
EDIT: @Beloved: Double-Captain is so good, but our lists are also very different. Mine has the Images, and more Spirit support (Dungeon Geists). It might work for you without them.