You got me. That's why when Iso asked me, I immediately jumped onto the Meg bandwagon.
That's not a defense. When you say that you are voting for Seppel until something better comes along, you create an undefinable scenario of "something better", at which point you can pick and choose when you feel the time is right to go hopping onto other wagons with barnposts of logic. Until then, you get to sit tight on your neutral vote, not scumhunting or helping the town whatsoever.
Just because you turned down an incredibly weak case on Meg doesn't mean the theory doesn't apply, it just means you're smart about what cases you are going to jump on and off of. I mean, you've got to make it look convincing after all.
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Who was that masked man anyway?
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Before I make any judgments, about how many scum should I expect to be in this game?
Dunno, it's sometimes hard to say. I'm guessing 5-6, maybe 7, but that's pushing it. It really depends on how many neutral's there are, and if there are any other factions to be worried about. Specialties can be complicated. There's no sure way of knowing.
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Ok, so we know Seppel and kpaca (and probably AI) are not town. If we're going to lynch kpaca for being a possible CL, I'd support that, but I prefer to lynch scum first though.
Why is it not good for town? The way I see it, we now know at least three people who aren't town. That's a win for us.
What about Guardman makes you feel he's scum?
Also, did you just announce you are going to lurk?
Where did Arnnaria claim vig? Did I miss something?
I urge you to go read Avatar mafia... And then repost this without the sarcasm.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Dunno, it's sometimes hard to say. I'm guessing 5-6, maybe 7, but that's pushing it. It really depends on how many neutral's there are, and if there are any other factions to be worried about. Specialties can be complicated. There's no sure way of knowing.
23 players with 2 claimed neutrals. 6 scum at most. But probably 5. Specialty or not there still needs to be balance.
That's not a defense. When you say that you are voting for Seppel until something better comes along, you create an undefinable scenario of "something better", at which point you can pick and choose when you feel the time is right to go hopping onto other wagons with barnposts of logic. Until then, you get to sit tight on your neutral vote, not scumhunting or helping the town whatsoever.
Just because you turned down an incredibly weak case on Meg doesn't mean the theory doesn't apply, it just means you're smart about what cases you are going to jump on and off of. I mean, you've got to make it look convincing after all.
1) ANY vote I place, in ANY game is ALWAYS unless/until a better case comes along. You shouldn't EVER be so married to your vote that you are unwilling to change it no matter what.
2) That should be true for EVERYONE, not just me.
3) Whenever I DO decide to move my vote, my actions should be based on THAT post and whatever justifications I give at that time. I shouldn't need to sit on a vote just because it will look scummy if I change it.
4) I never said I was going to do nothing but sit on my vote until someone else builds a case for me. I never said nor planned to barn everyone else and not actually contribute anything myself.
5) Changing your vote, even multiple times, isn't inherently scummy. No, it's not. The reason why it is USUALLY scummy is because if you are changing your vote many times, you usually have weak reasons on some of the changes, and THAT may be scummy. But if you change your vote 5 times to 5 different people, it may or may not be scummy. If every one of the changes was warranted by your previous concerns being answered and a new strong case being presented, by you or someone else, against someone else, then you SHOULD be changing your vote each time.
Granted,there are many more factors involved than just what I've mentioned above, but the main points are A) ANY vote should only be there until a stronger case comes along and B) I never said I didn't plan to contribute.
EBWOP: I should amend "stronger" to "significantly stronger".
Changing your vote between two strong cases each time a new post is made which makes one stronger than the other, barely, in your opinion just makes you look wishy washy. But if new evidence is presented or old evidence rebutted such that one case becomes significantly stronger than the other, THAT is when changing your vote is justified, no matter how many times you've already changed it.
I'm sorry AI. I doubt you are that terrible usually. In fact, you seemed fairly good last time I played with you and I really am looking forward to this game.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
1) ANY vote I place, in ANY game is ALWAYS unless/until a better case comes along. You shouldn't EVER be so married to your vote that you are unwilling to change it no matter what.
2) That should be true for EVERYONE, not just me.
3) Whenever I DO decide to move my vote, my actions should be based on THAT post and whatever justifications I give at that time. I shouldn't need to sit on a vote just because it will look scummy if I change it.
4) I never said I was going to do nothing but sit on my vote until someone else builds a case for me. I never said nor planned to barn everyone else and not actually contribute anything myself.
5) Changing your vote, even multiple times, isn't inherently scummy. No, it's not. The reason why it is USUALLY scummy is because if you are changing your vote many times, you usually have weak reasons on some of the changes, and THAT may be scummy. But if you change your vote 5 times to 5 different people, it may or may not be scummy. If every one of the changes was warranted by your previous concerns being answered and a new strong case being presented, by you or someone else, against someone else, then you SHOULD be changing your vote each time.
Granted,there are many more factors involved than just what I've mentioned above, but the main points are A) ANY vote should only be there until a stronger case comes along and B) I never said I didn't plan to contribute.
Ok, I'll buy this. You've effectively moved most of my suspicion off of you, save for an IGMEOY. I'm leaning town on you after your responses. My points were that it had looked like you were just rolling with the safe lynch and waiting until someone else had brought a case with them. The way you worded your Seppel vote really made it seem that way like "Here I plant my vote, only to dig it up if someone tells me to".
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Had a random thought pop into my head: Seppel could be scum looking for the lost scumbuddy.
See, in Loran's A Song of Ice and Fire Mafia a long time ago, we (the scum) had a member of the team in the town somewhere that didn't know who we were, and we didn't know who he was, so he was essentially the "lost scum". All we had to do was target him in a night and he would be told who we were and allowed to join the scumchat. He still counted towards living mafia at all times, he just wasn't a known member of the team. We ended up mislynching him D1, which looked good for us, but it turns out that we lost a very powerful member of the team.
Now, the same thing could be going on here, although it's incredibly risky to out yourself like Seppel did with it. Seppel's neutral claim invites a lot of attention, especially of the vig variety, so running this gambit may end up costing him his life, and if Seppel flips scum, I'm almost 100 percent positive that AI would flip scum too.
So, there's possibility that Seppel is simply trying to recruit the missing scum in order to prevent killing that scum accidentally with the D1 lynch, and to get it out of the way as fast as possible. The risk factor is there, but I think Seppel is the kind of player to take that risk, especially with how creative he can be with fake roles. I also don't think the neutral wincon he claimed is really challenging, as he's proved right here and now, simply asking his buddy to raise his hand. There's the promise of awesome powered rewards when they team up, but what could that do for the town if Seppel is neutral? What kind of benefit is that? And why would a neutral and a town team up, if AI is town that is.
I'm totally unsure about Seppel now, AI included. I might be WIFOMing myself easy here, but I've got to keep history in mind and not exclude all possibilities, plus there are so many questions with what the two of them have been claiming. Count me as suspicious for the time being. I think a Seppel default lynch is a good idea.
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I was going to duplicate my claim from Basic #64 and claim to be a self aligned SK that uses electricity to fry people, but with two apparently serious self aligned claims already, I think I'll go ahead and skip on it.
Had I noticed this game started yesterday though, I was 100% planning to take my claim from Basic #64 and repeat it here, modified only to reflect this game's flavor instead of that game's. Had I done that, I wonder what today would have been like with Seppel and kpaca trying to claim Self Aligned after me, even if my claim would have been patently fake.
Anyway, onto the thread...
Why does everyone assume that Seppel was telling either an entire truth or an entire lie? Is it not possible that Seppel really is looking for AlienInvasion, but not for friendship, but so he can kill them tonight? I see no reason to doubt that Seppel is looking for AI. But I also see no reason to believe it is with good intentions.
Overall, I don't like Seppel's claim. Not one bit. He's made it clear that, even if everything he said was true, he's still a threat to Town. He'll happily vote anyone, even if he is convinced they are Town, if it will help him live to the end. The closer we get to LyLo, the bigger of a threat he becomes.
Unless/until someone makes a better case or I spot something bigger...
And what happens when you lose after everyone has received a starfish?
Why do you think he's unkillable?
IT'S BECAUSE KPACA'S ROLE WOULD BE TOO DIFFICULT TO WIN AS IF HE WERE KILLABLE.
Holy crap just think about role theory for a moment and realize that it makes no sense for him to be unkillable if he can win with mafia or town.
Why is he unkillable? BECAUSE HE WINS BY HIMSELF.
:3
I'll vote for Megiddo if you promise to lynch Kpaca some time in the first three days.
Kpaca wins by himself. I am using logical deductions to come to this conclusion.
Why would AI claim that then? Clearly he is looking for me too. Otherwise he wouldn't have said a thing. AI is a smart player and would not have tied himself to me otherwise.
You do realize that lynching me will hurt the town's chances of winning, right?
And if you promise to lynch Kpaca within the first three days of this game, I'll townside.
Every time you post I envision you throwing up that garbage bag pokemon from the new generation.
A. Good logic (but as of my last game, logic get shredded and deep fried so...I just can't muster my usual incredulity at a case based on a smilie) and B. Wow challenging Hawking?
@void and the guy who asked I wanted to see if Seppel had anything more specific to add. Having his friend be scum seems bogus to me, another neutral I didn't think of, so his friend in my mind has to be town.
@kpaca If someone you give a bauble to dies, you lose, or just that if all the remaining players at a given time have baubles you win?
I just need to be both alive at the end and all the other players who endgame need to be holding baubles.
Well, that was a fun day of lurking. If anyone has any serious questions for me, lemme know and I'll answer. Also, I'm apparently bad at lurking. A few hours is my limit.
I don't understand the animosity here. Are you concerned that Kpaca's "unkillability" is going to lose us the game? Because you're painting yourself into a corner here; claiming that if we don't do what YOU want us to do, you're gonna go scum. That isn't a very "town-friendly" thing to say for a neutral; which you are purporting to be.
Kpaca has outlined and delineated the nuances to his role. You've threatened and tried to coerce other players into voting for him because he's unkillable. And now, you're threatening the town that you're going against us if we don't do what you say. I don't like this line of thinking one bit.
Have you ever played with Audinho? He's acting like obvious town here. Asking for advice and questioning his actions is his town meta. He has a lot more confidence as scum, because he has buddies to help him.
Void is already lurking. Granted he has an excuse, but it makes me feel uneasy. What really pings my scumdar though, is Iso trying to make excuses for him and posting that Void must be obvioustown when I'm not certain of that yet.
As for you GT, you feel townie to me right now. That overrides us disagreeing.
It's day 1, like literally, not even game state wise. This is the first day of play. No one is lurking, get outta here with that nonsense.
Void is a null tell on the lurking since he v/la all his games for this emergency. give it a few Days and if he is still lurking then its s scum tell..
I'll ask again in case you missed in the thread explosion
@ Kpaca - do you baubles do anything or are they just tokens ala goo?
Does a perfect scum victory and a successful reviver gambit count? I convinced the town that my scumbuddy was a reviver in order to mislynch another townie and put them into LyLo where we won.
Because seriously, I'm pretty proud of myself. I demolished that game. I do need to work on my town game, although I feel like I did well in ST:V mafia as well. I'm not asking for fear, I'm asking for respect. In either case though, you are still a Neutral who doesn't help us at all.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Does a perfect scum victory and a successful reviver gambit count? I convinced the town that my scumbuddy was a reviver in order to mislynch another townie and put them into LyLo where we won.
Because seriously, I'm pretty proud of myself. I demolished that game. I do need to work on my town game, although I feel like I did well in ST:V mafia as well. I'm not asking for fear, I'm asking for respect. In either case though, you are still a Neutral who doesn't help us at all.
I'd gladly respect you as soon as you fixed your wonky mafia theory. LIke you keep saying theoretical things that are just backwards but you say them as directions toward the town as if we should follow things you are saying.
I mean yeah that's impressive but it's one game and everyone gets one eventually. Basically I have nothing to base you being bad off of than me calling everyone bad at mafia for strategic reasons mixed with your off base theory (especially concerning neutrals) that you seem so sure of.
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And don't get me wrong, everyone thinks my mafia theory is all backwards but I've been being backwards for so long that now I'm just twisted when I move forward.
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I'd gladly respect you as soon as you fixed your wonky mafia theory. LIke you keep saying theoretical things that are just backwards but you say them as directions toward the town as if we should follow things you are saying.
I mean yeah that's impressive but it's one game and everyone gets one eventually. Basically I have nothing to base you being bad off of than me calling everyone bad at mafia for strategic reasons mixed with your off base theory (especially concerning neutrals) that you seem so sure of.
Btw, I'm very much an anti-meta player. If everyone thinks alike and scumhunts the same ways, the scum can do the same things to avoid being found. I actively try to play differently than everyone else, even if it leads to me making some "bad" decisions. It's more important to have a diversity of viewpoints than to have everyone making supposedly "optimal" plays.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
I have no problem with your vote against Megiddo, but at this juncture, I think Seppel is more deserving of the lynch. If you'd like to build a stronger case against Meg, be my guest. I'm by no means married to my vote on Seppel. I just think it's the best currently.
Or instead of going with the "safe lynch" we can lynch scum. There's an idea.
Post 200: Gricky may be scum. Less certain about that. If he is, the scum don't have Daychat. Also really dislike his 209. And 223. And 224. Good god. I need more votes.
@Arn: Stop it. Vote for Megiddo.
kpaca: Do you gain additional abilities for the amount of baubles you've handed out?
Does a perfect scum victory and a successful reviver gambit count? I convinced the town that my scumbuddy was a reviver in order to mislynch another townie and put them into LyLo where we won.
I convinced one of the last two members of the town to self-hammer in a 4-person LyoL situation with 2 town, a 1-Shot SK, and myself in my first scum game and won. But let's compare Mafia dicks later.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Or instead of going with the "safe lynch" we can lynch scum. There's an idea.
Post 200: Gricky may be scum. Less certain about that. If he is, the scum don't have Daychat. Also really dislike his 209. And 223. And 224. Good god. I need more votes.
@Arn: Stop it. Vote for Megiddo.
kpaca: Do you gain additional abilities for the amount of baubles you've handed out?
I convinced one of the last two members of the town to self-hammer in a 4-person LyoL situation with 2 town, a 1-Shot SK, and myself in my first scum game and won. But let's compare Mafia dicks later.
I dislike the fact that you're agreeing with Gricky here.
Had a random thought pop into my head: Seppel could be scum looking for the lost scumbuddy.
See, in Loran's A Song of Ice and Fire Mafia a long time ago, we (the scum) had a member of the team in the town somewhere that didn't know who we were, and we didn't know who he was, so he was essentially the "lost scum". All we had to do was target him in a night and he would be told who we were and allowed to join the scumchat. He still counted towards living mafia at all times, he just wasn't a known member of the team. We ended up mislynching him D1, which looked good for us, but it turns out that we lost a very powerful member of the team.
Now, the same thing could be going on here, although it's incredibly risky to out yourself like Seppel did with it. Seppel's neutral claim invites a lot of attention, especially of the vig variety, so running this gambit may end up costing him his life, and if Seppel flips scum, I'm almost 100 percent positive that AI would flip scum too.
So, there's possibility that Seppel is simply trying to recruit the missing scum in order to prevent killing that scum accidentally with the D1 lynch, and to get it out of the way as fast as possible. The risk factor is there, but I think Seppel is the kind of player to take that risk, especially with how creative he can be with fake roles. I also don't think the neutral wincon he claimed is really challenging, as he's proved right here and now, simply asking his buddy to raise his hand. There's the promise of awesome powered rewards when they team up, but what could that do for the town if Seppel is neutral? What kind of benefit is that? And why would a neutral and a town team up, if AI is town that is.
I'm totally unsure about Seppel now, AI included. I might be WIFOMing myself easy here, but I've got to keep history in mind and not exclude all possibilities, plus there are so many questions with what the two of them have been claiming. Count me as suspicious for the time being. I think a Seppel default lynch is a good idea.
Remind me to take a look at that for the double reason of checking it and actually putting some effort towards figuring you out.
Does a perfect scum victory and a successful reviver gambit count? I convinced the town that my scumbuddy was a reviver in order to mislynch another townie and put them into LyLo where we won.
Because seriously, I'm pretty proud of myself. I demolished that game. I do need to work on my town game, although I feel like I did well in ST:V mafia as well. I'm not asking for fear, I'm asking for respect. In either case though, you are still a Neutral who doesn't help us at all.
You should have seen the number of times I stabbed my eye out in spectator chat at what the town was doing.
Suffice it to say that I highly regretted making myself into a lightning rod.
---
When I wake up, I'm going to take another look at Audinho. I have not liked a single post he's made so far.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Don't like the Iso bit. It feels like Aud might know something more than he's letting on. I agree that Iso's a scary scum, but no more so than a lot of other players in this game. Why he singles out Iso is curious to me, regardless of recent game activity.
As for his last paragraph, how on earth is a smilie the scummiest thing he's seen all game? Did he not read the Massclaim proposal? I'm not putting any stock into it's motivations, but it's easily a more scummy action that posting a smilie.
This post could be rewritten as "Could someone please play this game for me?" More reason I don't like Aud so far.
Ok, so what made you flip-flop on Iso so quickly? Cause just a few pages ago you were rambling on and on about how you don't trust him and have him pegged for scum for some asinine reason.
Also, weak onto the Meg wagon. I really don't know why that's even a wagon, meg's vote on a fellow clan member could practically be predicted. I don't see his behavior with his excitement telling at all, and this case is just as terrible as "void posted smilies=scum by meta". The Rick Santorum meta attack here is reprehensible as well. That was Meg's gimmick account, where he was RPing as a presidential candidate. It's no surprise that he didn't sound like himself.
1. Read Mean Girls where I replaced in. Same thing, but this time I realized it was stupid even sooner to just "not trust Iso". I need to remind myself that Iso is just a player playing the game.
2. It was exactly the same as Starcraft. Like Deja Vu the same. Only difference is that Wessel brought it up instead of Iceman, and Wessel didn't push on it. I don't like the childish manner in which you ridicule my point. It's weak, yes, but it's not ridiculous. Why the need to stomp so thoroughly and excessively on it?
3. I asked that someone explained the case one more time. Stop patronising please.
4a. Rambling on? One point about not trusting him and then having to explain why afterwards is not rambling on.
4b. Pegged for scum? Show me where I called him scum. I dare you. Because I didn't. My trust issues with Iso has nothing to do with alignment.
5. Gimmick Schmimmick, it's still the same person posting, and posting style still applies. He was RPing a presidential candidate for a short time when the game begun. Your arguments against my arguments are rubbish. If you think I was weak when getting on to the Megiddowagon, what do you think of AI's vote on that wagon? Or kpaca, or Iso? Why is it only me you are giving stick for it? You are trying to pick low-hanging fruit, go pick on someone your own size.
Have you ever played with Audinho? He's acting like obvious town here. Asking for advice and questioning his actions is his town meta. He has a lot more confidence as scum, because he has buddies to help him.
This is news to me. My only scumgame thus far is Office Mafia, and I was a nervous wrack all game.
What are people voting me for? An exclamation point and a FOS? Seriously? I think calling scum based on punctuation is just silly. Incidentally, that's why I only FOS'd Audinho. It's silly, not scummy.
@fluffy: please don't do this again. You're not going to be able to claim a PR and skate your way through this game.
@gricky: I'm pretty sure Audinho is town. His posts remind me of his town play in Ghost Story.
@ahlyis: Liking you for town given your reasoning behind the Seppel vote.
@D_V: How is kpaca an SK?
@two neutral claims: Don't like this. Both could be holding back or straight lying, so I'm not comfortable letting them slide by. kpaca in particular is dangerous since he claims he can't be vigged. Seppel offering to play on our side if we lynch kpaca is interesting, especially since AI seems to be saying that HE will benefit from the pairing. Unless, you know, they're both neutrals.
@kpaca + DH: get a room
I also notice that people are thanking posts. Is this a thing we need to care about?
Vote DV. Proposing D1 mass claim + worrying about an SK does not sit well with me.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Or instead of going with the "safe lynch" we can lynch scum. There's an idea.
Post 200: Gricky may be scum. Less certain about that. If he is, the scum don't have Daychat. Also really dislike his 209. And 223. And 224. Good god. I need more votes.
@Arn: Stop it. Vote for Megiddo.
kpaca: Do you gain additional abilities for the amount of baubles you've handed out?
I convinced one of the last two members of the town to self-hammer in a 4-person LyoL situation with 2 town, a 1-Shot SK, and myself in my first scum game and won. But let's compare Mafia dicks later.
I dislike the fact that you're agreeing with Gricky here.
I find myself in a strange situation where I am agreeing with Iso. I think we've hit gold with seeing Megiddo/Proph/Void as scum, and GrickyTimmick is doing his best to try to change our attention to someone else (Audinho and Seppel).
His case on Seppel is just a theory which has no real evidence other than that it *could* be so. I disagree that we should lynch Seppel now. There are other more valuable targets, like scum. Sure, Seppel could be scum running a gambit, but it would be a risky gambit, which makes me think that he doesn't hold a strong power role.
GT's case on Audinho is just trying to find things where there aren't any. At least, his case on Audinho (basically bashing him for seeing Void as scum) isn't any stronger than the cases against Megiddo/Proph/Void.
I'm happy to
vote Megiddo.
Btw, is it me or are Proph and Megiddo suddenly missing? (Void's reasons are understandable.)
@mod: Could we get a votecount as to see where we're at?
So wait, is your Meg vote purely because I disagree with it and am "distracting" the town away from the wagon? Cause that's completely flawed logic.
Also, my ramble on Seppel isn't a point of contention, it's something to keep in mind. I said he's the default lynch not "OMGLYNCHHIMNOWZ" like you seem to make it out to be.
Lastly, My case on Aud is much deeper than that. First the terrible push on Void, second, the no-look barn onto Meg and lastly doing it all while active lurking and asking someone to play this game for him, along with Dragon's meta analysis that I think could totally apply here. Yeah, his void vote/wagon sucked, but it's much much more than that: It's his behavior too. Way to strawman.
Wessel's been giving me scummy vibes as well. I find it funny that Aud follows Iso and now Wessel's doing it too. Just inexplicably, and they both seem surprised by it themselves. That's not a terribly good sign people.
What are people voting me for? An exclamation point and a FOS? Seriously? I think calling scum based on punctuation is just silly. Incidentally, that's why I only FOS'd Audinho. It's silly, not scummy.
@fluffy: please don't do this again. You're not going to be able to claim a PR and skate your way through this game.
@gricky: I'm pretty sure Audinho is town. His posts remind me of his town play in Ghost Story.
@ahlyis: Liking you for town given your reasoning behind the Seppel vote.
@D_V: How is kpaca an SK?
@two neutral claims: Don't like this. Both could be holding back or straight lying, so I'm not comfortable letting them slide by. kpaca in particular is dangerous since he claims he can't be vigged. Seppel offering to play on our side if we lynch kpaca is interesting, especially since AI seems to be saying that HE will benefit from the pairing. Unless, you know, they're both neutrals.
@kpaca + DH: get a room
I also notice that people are thanking posts. Is this a thing we need to care about?
Vote DV. Proposing D1 mass claim + worrying about an SK does not sit well with me.
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
What are people voting me for? An exclamation point and a FOS? Seriously? I think calling scum based on punctuation is just silly. Incidentally, that's why I only FOS'd Audinho. It's silly, not scummy.
@fluffy: please don't do this again. You're not going to be able to claim a PR and skate your way through this game.
@gricky: I'm pretty sure Audinho is town. His posts remind me of his town play in Ghost Story.
@ahlyis: Liking you for town given your reasoning behind the Seppel vote.
@D_V: How is kpaca an SK?
@two neutral claims: Don't like this. Both could be holding back or straight lying, so I'm not comfortable letting them slide by. kpaca in particular is dangerous since he claims he can't be vigged. Seppel offering to play on our side if we lynch kpaca is interesting, especially since AI seems to be saying that HE will benefit from the pairing. Unless, you know, they're both neutrals.
@kpaca + DH: get a room
I also notice that people are thanking posts. Is this a thing we need to care about?
Vote DV. Proposing D1 mass claim + worrying about an SK does not sit well with me.
I am voting you for FoSing Aud. Basically FoSing is scummy because it is designed to put pressure on without commitment. Town have no need of FoSing unless their vote is tied up somewhere else. Yours was tied up in the RVS so it was technically free. Scum on the other are much more likely to FoS as it applies pressure, has no commitment, and does not show up in a vote count. Therefore they are usually the only people to ever FoS in a game and are almost always the one's to FoS in a situation where one's vote is free.
Lastly, My case on Aud is much deeper than that. First the terrible push on Void, second, the no-look barn onto Meg and lastly doing it all while active lurking and asking someone to play this game for him, along with Dragon's meta analysis that I think could totally apply here. Yeah, his void vote/wagon sucked, but it's much much more than that: It's his behavior too.
Blue parts are false. Why are you so intent on twisting the truth and misrepresenting?
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Or instead of going with the "safe lynch" we can lynch scum. There's an idea.
If I knew who scum were... I wouldn't lynch them at all if I could help it. Why lynch my buddies? Or I suppose I could be a Cop with a scum result, in that case, yes, I'd try to lynch them.
But since I don't know who scum are, I can only go with what I think is the best lynch for Town. So far, you haven't convinced me that Meg is a better candidate than Seppel is.
If I knew who scum were... I wouldn't lynch them at all if I could help it. Why lynch my buddies? Or I suppose I could be a Cop with a scum result, in that case, yes, I'd try to lynch them.
But since I don't know who scum are, I can only go with what I think is the best lynch for Town. So far, you haven't convinced me that Meg is a better candidate than Seppel is.
I like this guy.
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Think the MtgStaff is just swell? Join today! You too can be involved in an 8 year grudge and delete nearly 9000 of kpaca's posts!
Btw, I'm very much an anti-meta player. If everyone thinks alike and scumhunts the same ways, the scum can do the same things to avoid being found. I actively try to play differently than everyone else, even if it leads to me making some "bad" decisions. It's more important to have a diversity of viewpoints than to have everyone making supposedly "optimal" plays.
I'm not suggesting meta play, I'm suggesting good play. Not necessarily optimal, because optimal is debateable unless it's coming from me. Good play seems like a good idea though.
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Or instead of going with the "safe lynch" we can lynch scum. There's an idea.
Post 200: Gricky may be scum. Less certain about that. If he is, the scum don't have Daychat. Also really dislike his 209. And 223. And 224. Good god. I need more votes.
@Arn: Stop it. Vote for Megiddo.
kpaca: Do you gain additional abilities for the amount of baubles you've handed out?
I convinced one of the last two members of the town to self-hammer in a 4-person LyoL situation with 2 town, a 1-Shot SK, and myself in my first scum game and won. But let's compare Mafia dicks later.
I dislike the fact that you're agreeing with Gricky here.
Nope. As far as I know they are completely irrelevant to everything but my wincon.
What are people voting me for? An exclamation point and a FOS? Seriously? I think calling scum based on punctuation is just silly. Incidentally, that's why I only FOS'd Audinho. It's silly, not scummy.
@fluffy: please don't do this again. You're not going to be able to claim a PR and skate your way through this game.
@gricky: I'm pretty sure Audinho is town. His posts remind me of his town play in Ghost Story.
@ahlyis: Liking you for town given your reasoning behind the Seppel vote.
@D_V: How is kpaca an SK?
@two neutral claims: Don't like this. Both could be holding back or straight lying, so I'm not comfortable letting them slide by. kpaca in particular is dangerous since he claims he can't be vigged. Seppel offering to play on our side if we lynch kpaca is interesting, especially since AI seems to be saying that HE will benefit from the pairing. Unless, you know, they're both neutrals.
@kpaca + DH: get a room
I also notice that people are thanking posts. Is this a thing we need to care about?
Vote DV. Proposing D1 mass claim + worrying about an SK does not sit well with me.
I'm voting you for posting a smiley in your second post. Not even lying when I say I've only read three of your posts (this one included).
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I'm scum because I pointed out that scum are the only ones who know who scum are and that they wouldn't want to lynch each other? Wow. I'm sorry. I had no idea I was spilling secret info that nobody knew. How silly of me.
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Just a pigment of your imagination.
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That's not a defense. When you say that you are voting for Seppel until something better comes along, you create an undefinable scenario of "something better", at which point you can pick and choose when you feel the time is right to go hopping onto other wagons with barnposts of logic. Until then, you get to sit tight on your neutral vote, not scumhunting or helping the town whatsoever.
Just because you turned down an incredibly weak case on Meg doesn't mean the theory doesn't apply, it just means you're smart about what cases you are going to jump on and off of. I mean, you've got to make it look convincing after all.
sig by DarkNightCavalier
Avatar by perv90210.
Currently Running
Cryffyl
Dunno, it's sometimes hard to say. I'm guessing 5-6, maybe 7, but that's pushing it. It really depends on how many neutral's there are, and if there are any other factions to be worried about. Specialties can be complicated. There's no sure way of knowing.
I urge you to go read Avatar mafia... And then repost this without the sarcasm.
23 players with 2 claimed neutrals. 6 scum at most. But probably 5. Specialty or not there still needs to be balance.
The Family
1) ANY vote I place, in ANY game is ALWAYS unless/until a better case comes along. You shouldn't EVER be so married to your vote that you are unwilling to change it no matter what.
2) That should be true for EVERYONE, not just me.
3) Whenever I DO decide to move my vote, my actions should be based on THAT post and whatever justifications I give at that time. I shouldn't need to sit on a vote just because it will look scummy if I change it.
4) I never said I was going to do nothing but sit on my vote until someone else builds a case for me. I never said nor planned to barn everyone else and not actually contribute anything myself.
5) Changing your vote, even multiple times, isn't inherently scummy. No, it's not. The reason why it is USUALLY scummy is because if you are changing your vote many times, you usually have weak reasons on some of the changes, and THAT may be scummy. But if you change your vote 5 times to 5 different people, it may or may not be scummy. If every one of the changes was warranted by your previous concerns being answered and a new strong case being presented, by you or someone else, against someone else, then you SHOULD be changing your vote each time.
Granted,there are many more factors involved than just what I've mentioned above, but the main points are A) ANY vote should only be there until a stronger case comes along and B) I never said I didn't plan to contribute.
hey
hey guys
fluffy just towntold like a boss
Really not to sure about that.
So why put it out there?
I'll catch up tomorrow hopefully.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Changing your vote between two strong cases each time a new post is made which makes one stronger than the other, barely, in your opinion just makes you look wishy washy. But if new evidence is presented or old evidence rebutted such that one case becomes significantly stronger than the other, THAT is when changing your vote is justified, no matter how many times you've already changed it.
I asked the exact same question in my very first game. I was scum. TFF (now KCC) decided I must be town because I asked it.
History repeating itself?
yeah but you're good at this game
Ego stipes magis cras.
I don't feel good at this game today.
Ok, I'll buy this. You've effectively moved most of my suspicion off of you, save for an IGMEOY. I'm leaning town on you after your responses. My points were that it had looked like you were just rolling with the safe lynch and waiting until someone else had brought a case with them. The way you worded your Seppel vote really made it seem that way like "Here I plant my vote, only to dig it up if someone tells me to".
Meh, that's really null. Sure a newb could do it, but so could a clever newb scum. AI's point is living proof.
Fluffy should post some content. That would give me much better feelings.
Sorry to triple post, but sigging the editor is the most genius idea you've ever had IMO. Thank you so very very much.
Don't let some loose cannon townies bring you down. You've improved a lot in the past few years.
Wessel meretur fidem.
See, in Loran's A Song of Ice and Fire Mafia a long time ago, we (the scum) had a member of the team in the town somewhere that didn't know who we were, and we didn't know who he was, so he was essentially the "lost scum". All we had to do was target him in a night and he would be told who we were and allowed to join the scumchat. He still counted towards living mafia at all times, he just wasn't a known member of the team. We ended up mislynching him D1, which looked good for us, but it turns out that we lost a very powerful member of the team.
Now, the same thing could be going on here, although it's incredibly risky to out yourself like Seppel did with it. Seppel's neutral claim invites a lot of attention, especially of the vig variety, so running this gambit may end up costing him his life, and if Seppel flips scum, I'm almost 100 percent positive that AI would flip scum too.
So, there's possibility that Seppel is simply trying to recruit the missing scum in order to prevent killing that scum accidentally with the D1 lynch, and to get it out of the way as fast as possible. The risk factor is there, but I think Seppel is the kind of player to take that risk, especially with how creative he can be with fake roles. I also don't think the neutral wincon he claimed is really challenging, as he's proved right here and now, simply asking his buddy to raise his hand. There's the promise of awesome powered rewards when they team up, but what could that do for the town if Seppel is neutral? What kind of benefit is that? And why would a neutral and a town team up, if AI is town that is.
I'm totally unsure about Seppel now, AI included. I might be WIFOMing myself easy here, but I've got to keep history in mind and not exclude all possibilities, plus there are so many questions with what the two of them have been claiming. Count me as suspicious for the time being. I think a Seppel default lynch is a good idea.
Just tokens as far as I know. Chunks of wood.
I support this
Every time you post I envision you throwing up that garbage bag pokemon from the new generation.
I just need to be both alive at the end and all the other players who endgame need to be holding baubles.
Serious Question: Are you any good at mafia?
Indeed.
It's day 1, like literally, not even game state wise. This is the first day of play. No one is lurking, get outta here with that nonsense.
Just tokens bruh.
Lol. I'm sure you set yourself out as a player we all should fear in that one game.
Go read Seasons mafia so you can see how not afraid of you I am
Why not?
Because seriously, I'm pretty proud of myself. I demolished that game. I do need to work on my town game, although I feel like I did well in ST:V mafia as well. I'm not asking for fear, I'm asking for respect. In either case though, you are still a Neutral who doesn't help us at all.
I'd gladly respect you as soon as you fixed your wonky mafia theory. LIke you keep saying theoretical things that are just backwards but you say them as directions toward the town as if we should follow things you are saying.
I mean yeah that's impressive but it's one game and everyone gets one eventually. Basically I have nothing to base you being bad off of than me calling everyone bad at mafia for strategic reasons mixed with your off base theory (especially concerning neutrals) that you seem so sure of.
kpaca : Magical Girl :: Cyan : Cyberpunk
So far I dont have any real glaring scumtells Ive seen other than D_V's misguided attempts to get a D1 massclaim.
mmmm
I do like GT's theory on Sep/AI though having read ASoIaF Mafia. Might be something there.
The Family
Or instead of going with the "safe lynch" we can lynch scum. There's an idea.
Post 200: Gricky may be scum. Less certain about that. If he is, the scum don't have Daychat. Also really dislike his 209. And 223. And 224. Good god. I need more votes.
@Arn: Stop it. Vote for Megiddo.
kpaca: Do you gain additional abilities for the amount of baubles you've handed out?
I convinced one of the last two members of the town to self-hammer in a 4-person LyoL situation with 2 town, a 1-Shot SK, and myself in my first scum game and won. But let's compare Mafia dicks later.
I dislike the fact that you're agreeing with Gricky here.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why are we asking the SK about his abilities?
You should have seen the number of times I stabbed my eye out in spectator chat at what the town was doing.
Suffice it to say that I highly regretted making myself into a lightning rod.
---
When I wake up, I'm going to take another look at Audinho. I have not liked a single post he's made so far.
I hope you realize how dumb a question this is and why.
Not seeing it, but we'll see where your read goes.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
1. Read Mean Girls where I replaced in. Same thing, but this time I realized it was stupid even sooner to just "not trust Iso". I need to remind myself that Iso is just a player playing the game.
2. It was exactly the same as Starcraft. Like Deja Vu the same. Only difference is that Wessel brought it up instead of Iceman, and Wessel didn't push on it. I don't like the childish manner in which you ridicule my point. It's weak, yes, but it's not ridiculous. Why the need to stomp so thoroughly and excessively on it?
3. I asked that someone explained the case one more time. Stop patronising please.
4a. Rambling on? One point about not trusting him and then having to explain why afterwards is not rambling on.
4b. Pegged for scum? Show me where I called him scum. I dare you. Because I didn't. My trust issues with Iso has nothing to do with alignment.
5. Gimmick Schmimmick, it's still the same person posting, and posting style still applies. He was RPing a presidential candidate for a short time when the game begun. Your arguments against my arguments are rubbish. If you think I was weak when getting on to the Megiddowagon, what do you think of AI's vote on that wagon? Or kpaca, or Iso? Why is it only me you are giving stick for it? You are trying to pick low-hanging fruit, go pick on someone your own size.
This is news to me. My only scumgame thus far is Office Mafia, and I was a nervous wrack all game.
Did you just compare this game to your completed scumgame?
FoS Dragonheart
Good luck expecting content from Fluffy. I foresee that you'll go wanting for a while.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
You should be looking forward to that. I'm real pretty
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
Where did you get SK from his claim? Why are you SK hunting this early in the game?
Yeah I'm good with my vote right where its at.
@ Iso - I have reasons I can talk about as to why I find that plausable
The Family
The Family
First things first, unvote
What are people voting me for? An exclamation point and a FOS? Seriously? I think calling scum based on punctuation is just silly. Incidentally, that's why I only FOS'd Audinho. It's silly, not scummy.
@fluffy: please don't do this again. You're not going to be able to claim a PR and skate your way through this game.
@gricky: I'm pretty sure Audinho is town. His posts remind me of his town play in Ghost Story.
@ahlyis: Liking you for town given your reasoning behind the Seppel vote.
@D_V: How is kpaca an SK?
@two neutral claims: Don't like this. Both could be holding back or straight lying, so I'm not comfortable letting them slide by. kpaca in particular is dangerous since he claims he can't be vigged. Seppel offering to play on our side if we lynch kpaca is interesting, especially since AI seems to be saying that HE will benefit from the pairing. Unless, you know, they're both neutrals.
@kpaca + DH: get a room
I also notice that people are thanking posts. Is this a thing we need to care about?
Vote DV. Proposing D1 mass claim + worrying about an SK does not sit well with me.
Cult Leader, not SK.
Do you think the "first person to hunt an SK is scum" tell is valid if the neutral claims neutral already?
What's not to like?
So wait, is your Meg vote purely because I disagree with it and am "distracting" the town away from the wagon? Cause that's completely flawed logic.
Also, my ramble on Seppel isn't a point of contention, it's something to keep in mind. I said he's the default lynch not "OMGLYNCHHIMNOWZ" like you seem to make it out to be.
Lastly, My case on Aud is much deeper than that. First the terrible push on Void, second, the no-look barn onto Meg and lastly doing it all while active lurking and asking someone to play this game for him, along with Dragon's meta analysis that I think could totally apply here. Yeah, his void vote/wagon sucked, but it's much much more than that: It's his behavior too. Way to strawman.
Wessel's been giving me scummy vibes as well. I find it funny that Aud follows Iso and now Wessel's doing it too. Just inexplicably, and they both seem surprised by it themselves. That's not a terribly good sign people.
I am voting you for FoSing Aud. Basically FoSing is scummy because it is designed to put pressure on without commitment. Town have no need of FoSing unless their vote is tied up somewhere else. Yours was tied up in the RVS so it was technically free. Scum on the other are much more likely to FoS as it applies pressure, has no commitment, and does not show up in a vote count. Therefore they are usually the only people to ever FoS in a game and are almost always the one's to FoS in a situation where one's vote is free.
Blue parts are false. Why are you so intent on twisting the truth and misrepresenting?
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
If I knew who scum were... I wouldn't lynch them at all if I could help it. Why lynch my buddies? Or I suppose I could be a Cop with a scum result, in that case, yes, I'd try to lynch them.
But since I don't know who scum are, I can only go with what I think is the best lynch for Town. So far, you haven't convinced me that Meg is a better candidate than Seppel is.
I like this guy.
Hahahaha there is no way you could get me lynched guy.
I'm not suggesting meta play, I'm suggesting good play. Not necessarily optimal, because optimal is debateable unless it's coming from me. Good play seems like a good idea though.
Nope. As far as I know they are completely irrelevant to everything but my wincon.
I'm voting you for posting a smiley in your second post. Not even lying when I say I've only read three of your posts (this one included).
Joking or not, that post seems far too telling.
Um, okay.
I'm scum because I pointed out that scum are the only ones who know who scum are and that they wouldn't want to lynch each other? Wow. I'm sorry. I had no idea I was spilling secret info that nobody knew. How silly of me.