Ugh, so this morning I wrote a post and didn't get to finish it before I realized that if I didn't leave, I'd be late for work. Anyway, the post was Meg's post where he responds to a whole bunch of people. He told me that Aud was playing to his meta. I was going to respond by saying that I've never played with Aud, I'd be willing to take a look into both his town and his scum meta, but generally I prefer to game someone's behavior without the meta involved. It becomes too WIFOMy if the person is aware of their own meta and it's a good way for the town to lose games.
1. Read Mean Girls where I replaced in. Same thing, but this time I realized it was stupid even sooner to just "not trust Iso". I need to remind myself that Iso is just a player playing the game.
2. It was exactly the same as Starcraft. Like Deja Vu the same. Only difference is that Wessel brought it up instead of Iceman, and Wessel didn't push on it. I don't like the childish manner in which you ridicule my point. It's weak, yes, but it's not ridiculous. Why the need to stomp so thoroughly and excessively on it?
3. I asked that someone explained the case one more time. Stop patronising please.
4a. Rambling on? One point about not trusting him and then having to explain why afterwards is not rambling on.
4b. Pegged for scum? Show me where I called him scum. I dare you. Because I didn't. My trust issues with Iso has nothing to do with alignment.
5. Gimmick Schmimmick, it's still the same person posting, and posting style still applies. He was RPing a presidential candidate for a short time when the game begun. Your arguments against my arguments are rubbish. If you think I was weak when getting on to the Megiddowagon, what do you think of AI's vote on that wagon? Or kpaca, or Iso? Why is it only me you are giving stick for it? You are trying to pick low-hanging fruit, go pick on someone your own size.
1. Point granted, I normally take Iso's presence in a game very seriously, but this game also has Kpaca and Seppel and a whole bunch of peeps. Mostly I wanted a reaction from this point.
2. Why stomp it hard? Because you are riding it equally hard and I think it's totes scum motivation for pushing a lynch. That was the only analysis on the Void wagon, and it's justified by "IT HAPPENED BEFORE!". Newsflash: Lot's of things have happened before. I don't like the justification, I don't like the weak lynchpoint on void. Excuse me if I don't relent when I'm scumhunting.
3. It's not patronizing, it's a fair point.You posted barn post with multiple barns on it. Like "someone write up this case" and "Meg is apparently scum because Iso and Kpaca think so". Why don't you reread the thread and reach your own conclusions, post your own case? Iso comes by, tells you to read the quote of Meg in his last post and see how forced they are. You know what Iso quoted? This:
Nah, I don't think that argument follows. An emoticon is practically nothing! If the wording of the post had contributed to your read, sure, but just an emoticon? No. That isn't even worth anything as a jumping off point.
Also, your statement on Iso is clearly not logical, unless you're suggesting that the mod didn't randomize alignments.
@Aud: See the post of Meg's I quoted? It is so terribly forced. Read into it.
And your respond with "Ahh yes, I've seen the light, you must be right /barnvote".
Iso's reasoning here is weak and it makes yours doubly weak by extension. You are looking for a case, a player quotes a post and votes, barely touching the reasoning behind it, and suddenly all your questions are answered. I'm not buying it and I think the wagon is scum-driven.
4a. You are nitpicking at words here, the important information is that you were anti-Iso and very wary of him and suddenly you are not, all because he basically tells you "FOLLOW ME!" Dragon's meta analysis of you being more confidant and buddying when scum leads me to believe you may be scum, if DH's meta analysis is correct. Again, not leaning on the meta argument, it's just another point against.
4b. Again, picky word issues, but you understand my point and are avoiding it. You had plenty of paranoia surrounding Iso coming into the game, and you deferred to Seppel to get a read. Seppel isn't being cooperative, not enough to give your the read on Iso, yet you are suddenly happy with following him around? If you are truly paranoid about a single player in a 23 player game, you wouldn't just forget about it the moment that player brings up a suspect. It's a flip-flop on your logic, it reads off and inconsistant and leads me to believe you are scum.
5. Kpaca's a neutral. AI is more than likely neutral too, and my theory regarding him and Seppel pretty much covers my opinions there. I'm thinking Iso's scum, but I've got more evidence against you, and your supposed "scumbuddy confidence meta" will tell more about Iso than Iso's play will about you. You are the best option and have had more than enough scummy actions to justify my vote on you.
Blue parts are false. Why are you so intent on twisting the truth and misrepresenting?
Wow really? If you plan on saying things like this, you had better plan on justifying your statements.
First, the no-look barn onto Meg was totally that. You were all like "I don't see the case, just Iso and Kpaca's votes. What for?" Iso was all like "Hey, check this one quote out and the three or so words I posted about it!" and you were all like "That changes EVERYTHING! Vote". How is that not a no-look barnpost? And when I say no-look, I don't literally mean that you didn't look at anything before you voted, I mean that it was so casual and simple, it was like a no-look bounce pass, like planned teamwork, like scum would have. It was totally barny.
Second, the active lurking bit comes from you posting the "post the case for me" bit instead of doing your own work. You came in, gave a play-by-play of the gamestate and asked for work to be done, like my boss or something. It read as active lurking to me, like "here I am, not providing content or anything, but it's a post with lines and words and stuff, isn't that neat?"
Third, see the second point above, it plays back to your "post the case for me" post.
Fourth, isn't Dragon's meta analysis a fluid thing, open to interpretation? Or are you going to argue your own meta now? I'm seeing what Dragon said about your meta in this thread. I pretty sure that's my own opinion, if you'd like to correct me or the meta read, go ahead and do so, but calling me a liar? That's not about to change my opinion, no sir.
Since a long time. It makes them seem helpful and act townie when they really aren't doing anything at all. Tordeck answered this nicely.
QUOTE=Wessel;8600325]I've had Megiddo (together with Void and Proph) as a target before I put my vote on it. I just made my mind up between those three in that specific post. Your subversion of the "town's" (as you so rightly say) focus on Proph and Megiddo just makes me think you might be trying to help them out. It makes me think you're in the same team as they are.[/QUOTE]
So, you are tunneling me then? Like, "Hey here's my reads. And there's this guy who has other reads, some of them contrary to mine. He must be scum too then."
Ok, well, in a 23 player game, people are going to have other reads than you. This point reads as either inexperience or scummy tunneling. You don't seem to be inexperienced either. Also, for not even the 300th post in the game, you sure do have the scumteam pinned down quick don't ya? Also, I wasn't aware that Proph was a point of focus for the town, I guess I'll reread that, or is he somehow tied to Meg?
QUOTE=Wessel;8600325]Who would you prefer to lynch first, kpaca or Seppel? Or in other words, what do you think is more likely, that kpaca is lying and he's actually a cult leader (or a scum pulling a gambit), or that Seppel is lying and he's actually trying to recruit 'the lost scum'.[/QUOTE]
Good question. Probably Seppel. There's an off chance that Kpaca is not what he says he is, but he's actually providing some content to this game and tends to have excellent reads. If my theory about Seppel is right, we catch two scum, with AI more than likely being scum too. If things are hairy late in the game and Kpaca's still around, he's a lynch target, but otherwise I think he's pretty straightforward.
QUOTE=Wessel;8600325]I think Audinho's vote for Void was not indicative of being scum but rather indicative of him being eager. Also, what makes you think Audinho is active lurking? That post in which he asks for someone to explain kpaca's case on Megiddo? I don't agree with your stance that Audinho was asking others to 'play this game for him'. Your argument basically boils down to his choice of wording, not the meaning behind them. I agree that semantics can be of importance, but in this case I'm not seeing it.[/QUOTE]
His wording is important in the post, mostly because it's clear that he's not going to go looking for the case himself. If he really wants to see it, he'll look at Meg's post and his play himself and make his own decisions. Instead, Iso pops in with weak analysis on a single post and Aud buys it for full face value, thus boiling all of Megs posts down to that single one, instead of seeing the entirety of Meg's play. Aud's bad here. I've explained how Aud is active lurking in my above points here, it's a somewhat extreme argument, I'll give it that, but it does apply to that post. The argument is more of a "Aud's being lazy" point than Active Lurking, I was just tired this morning and couldn't think of anything better to call it at the moment.
QUOTE=Wessel;8600325]Is it just OMGUS, or do you have actually anything to back it up? I'm not following Iso, I just have the same view on the game atm as he does. That I am surprised by that is mostly because I tend to disagree with him at first. Just look at Osteria mafia for example.
Anyway, do you think Iso is scum?[/QUOTE]
Yes, I think Iso is scum. Mostly because his play on the Meg wagon really really reminds me of his scum game in Trisk Mafia, a Seppel modded game I might add. He "trapped" a new player on D1 who made a slip and let the town, me specifically, write the case and carry the newb town away, the whole time not really adding anything to the case other than "dude's scum", but claiming to be a major part of the case anyway.
This isn't the exact same situations, but it's giving me reminders. Like the incredibly minor point that Iso latched onto to cause both situations. It also feels like he's just setting it up for townies to carry away the train for him, like possibly you. The scummy vibes I have from you come from your trust in Iso pushing a single weak point as far as he can and the trust in the Meg case in general. Adding me to your scumlist because of the "protection" theory seems like a large leap in logic and scummy tunnelvisioning on your current reads. So no, it's not OMGUS.
That being said, I'll admit that you are the weakest link in my theory and have a much better presence on the Meg wagon than both Iso and Aud. I makes me think maybe you will be the townie that ends up pushing the wagon for them. My scum vibes from you are more of a IGMEOY than a vote or anything more serious. I'm just suspicious of people following that case in general.
Once again, reminds me of Trisk when I asked you to show me where you added to the Vitek case and you couldn't produce. Small general statements like this is your scum MO, so you'd better explain yourself. I've got no problem voting you anyway, I'd just rather lynch Aud because I've got a lot more to go off of.
Um, it's not? It certainly looked like you were telling me to stop voting for Seppel and to switch my vote to Meg because Meg is Scum and we should lynch Scum over Self.
If that's NOT what you were telling me, then please clarify what you actually meant, because apparently it got lost in translation.
If that IS what you meant, then I stand by my response. You don't KNOW that Meg is Scum. You may be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, but you don't know it for a fact. Or do you?
At any rate, whether you are convinced or not, I am not convinced. A smiley and an exclamation point are far from enough "proof" for me. Just because in one other game someone posted a smiley under similar circumstances and turned out to be Scum doesn't make for a convincing Scumtell. It takes more than a single example of something, especially something as esoteric as this is, before I'll start to accept that it just might really be a Scumtell.
Seppel though is non-Town by his own admission. And while I think it likely he is Self aligned, that's not a certainty. But even with him being Self aligned, he's still a threat to Town by his own admission. He has said multiple times that he'll work in his own best interests regardless of whether those are also Town's best interests.
Is he as big a threat as actual Mafia is? Not unless he really is Mafia instead of Self. But most Day 1 cases are built on crap and end in a Townie lynch. Yes, Day 1 Scum lynches do occur, but they are far from the norm in my experience. I'd rather lynch a guaranteed non-Town than an unknown who has a shaky at best case against them.
I do when there is no basis to be SK hunting. Neither of your claims screams SK gambit to hide in open. Your cult theory is a better possibility and even that is a a little wonky and I think you are only thinking it cuz there have been a few Cult games this last year. More than in previous years.
3rd party hunting is the easiest way for scum to appear like they are helping the town when in fact they are not.
haha, between you, iso and kpaca in this game, I'm pretty sure my head is going to explode from all the crazy by the end of it.
Like I said, Tordeck covered that point nicely. Must have stole some logics from Ahl.
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
Please explain to me the difference between lynching Scum Day X and then information lynching Day X+1 versus information lynching Day X and then lynching the already found Scum Day X+1. Why is it better to do the info lynch first? At the end of both scenarios, you're in the exact same spot Town to Scum ratio-wise.
Well, one way gives us a lot more information about the other scum. Making the town more informed about players and interactions, then watching a potential scum interact and try to influence us for another day, puts us in a much better spot to find the rest of that scum's team.
We're NEVER going to agree here. I still maintain waiting until LyLo to decide it is important to lynch Scum is just handing the game to the Scum.
It's good to lynch some scum earlier, especially considering that information lynches and scum lynches are not mutually exclusive. Often the best way to gather information is to lynch scum.
Again, we're going to have to agree to disagree. If you KNOW someone is Scum, the proper thing to do is to milk them for whatever you can that Day, but to LYNCH THEM!
Because of the high powered nature of this game, that will likely be true here in almost all cases. Lynching someone who is very likely to be scum and denying them another night of using their ability will probably outweigh the additional information we could gain by letting them live. In a lower powered set-up, I would argue that there is no hurry to lynch them once they have been found.
With the exception of the last point, those all sound like excellent reasons to lynch neutrals whenever you don't have a solid Scum candidate to lynch. And I don't accept that the last point is so important that only it should be considered.
Neutrals are good to lynch when you are getting close to LyLo and/or are afraid to lynch town power roles. They are also good to lynch when they have actually provided useful interactions with other players and you doubt their neutrality. (E.G. If you think they are scum.)
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Are we arguing theory here or am I not just reading between the lines? Is there someone Dragonheart wants to go after that Ahylis does not? I know Ahylis has her vote on Seppel; is this what is upsetting you Dragonheart?
It seems like you two are going back and forth with the theory hammer but not singling out anyone in particular to argue a lynch for.
Are we arguing theory here or am I not just reading between the lines? Is there someone Dragonheart wants to go after that Ahylis does not? I know Ahylis has her vote on Seppel; is this what is upsetting you Dragonheart?
It seems like you two are going back and forth with the theory hammer but not singling out anyone in particular to argue a lynch for.
That should read "his vote". Damn. I hate it when I do that.
Are we arguing theory here or am I not just reading between the lines? Is there someone Dragonheart wants to go after that Ahylis does not? I know Ahylis has her vote on Seppel; is this what is upsetting you Dragonheart?
It seems like you two are going back and forth with the theory hammer but not singling out anyone in particular to argue a lynch for.
Ahlyis is a dude, dude. Pretty sure.
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
I usually ask everyone's pronoun preferences at the start of the game, but for some reason this one started so fast I didn't think anyone would see it.
I apologize for any mistakes I made and/or future mistakes I'll make. It's a real touchy topic for me and I feel bad for doing it.
Well, one way gives us a lot more information about the other scum. Making the town more informed about players and interactions, then watching a potential scum interact and try to influence us for another day, puts us in a much better spot to find the rest of that scum's team.
I'm confused. How does all this work.
We find Scum.
All (or at least a majority) of the Town knows he is Scum.
We leave him alive to watch his interactions.
We lynch him later and then lynch all his buddies we found by leaving him alive.
Is that the general idea here? If so, I've got a question... Why do you assume Scum will be so stupid that they don't know they've been caught even though at least half the rest of the players know it? Because, without that, why do you assume their interactions are natural and not designed to lead you astray?
That should read "his vote". Damn. I hate it when I do that.
No worries. I don't really care either way. I know a lot of people end up assuming my name is Alice. It's not. I am a guy. But whether people refer to me as male or female doesn't really matter, does it?
EBWOP: Be thankful I'm not using my normal Avatar. I've got the Black Friday Poker emblem here. Over at Px2 I'm using my standard image, which is of the female character named "Alias" on the cover of the novel Curse of the Azure Bonds, which is where I bastardized my screen name from.
Even more people get confused when I use that avatar.
I'll give you a prime example. In Avatar, which just finished, this situation came up. The town wanted to lynch Zionite because they knew he was scum. By letting him live another day, they determined that Wheat_Grinder was his buddy and noticed all kinds of connections between him and myself.
If we hadn't pulled a surprise LyLo situation on them, we would have probably all been found in rapid succession and lost there.
I want to create situations like that earlier in the game when we still have time to use that information to our advantage.
In addition, I'm not very good at Day 1. I will openly admit that while I have scum reads at the moment, I am not prepared to lynch anyone based on them. (I mean, for the sake of information, I would probably be willing to lynch Iso, Audinho, AsianInvasion, or Guardman.) Which is part of why my gathering information plan is so important to me.
At the start of the game the town has breathing room. I want to use it as a resource to gather the maximum amount of information. If you guys can actually catch scum, which I've seen happen surprisingly often around here, then feel free. Otherwise I'm preparing for LyLo starting right now and I intend to find the scum.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
I'll give you a prime example. In Avatar, which just finished, this situation came up. The town wanted to lynch Zionite because they knew he was scum. By letting him live another day, they determined that Wheat_Grinder was his buddy and noticed all kinds of connections between him and myself.
Were all these connections only in posts made during that extra day he was granted? Or were they already there for the most part?
If the connections only happened during that extra day, then I don't know what to say except to suggest that perhaps Zionite and Wheat_Grinder should've played better.
I mean, if Scum know they've been caught and they go ahead and provide links to each other anyway, well, I can't believe that is the norm.
Just because it happened once doesn't mean it will always happen.
Dragon I hate to say it (well actually I enjoy saying it, but I digress) but your tactics and way of thinking are opposite of probably most people in the game.
Also look at this way. Scum are strongest when all together as they are open to many different scenarios of who performs the kill and open to using any powers they may have. With each scum we lynch it takes away a kill performer, gives us an extra day, and a good chance we would be taking away a role with power since this is a specialty.
Info lynches give us info which may or may not prove useful later.
The smart thing is to take the 2-point lay up and lynch scum then go for the three pointer and try to get two scum for the price of one when it could end up shooting us in the foot.
What would you do as scum if one of your buddies was discovered... and then left alone? You can't buddy them because they are scum. You can't bus them, because the town determined they should be let live. You end up in an incredibly awkward situation where any interactions with that player are very dangerous. Then the townsfolk get to watch the scum interact with people and see what turns up. Obviously 100% of people wouldn't be in agreement about whether that player was scum, let alone whether they should have been let live. You also put the scum in a position where they need their ally dead.
IMO, the only correct play for the scum player at that point would be to clam up and not speak again. (Which then confirms they are scum.)
Another example of this comes from Cyberpunk where a scum claimed in LyLo. The town couldn't touch him for a variety of reasons though. He tried to just be quiet, but the town still found his ally based on interactions. He also couldn't help trying to prod the town a bit, which was able to be analyzed for more information gain.
Scum are leaking buckets of information that the town desperately need. The only reason to kill them is if you need to stop their abilities, or if you need to keep them from controlling the vote. The rest of the time living scum are beneficial to the town.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
@Seppel: I'm making an assumption based on the fact that this is a specialty. For my example, high powered just has to mean that the scum have at least one power role amongst them.
@Guardman: I know I think oppositely of everyone else here. I'm going to continue doing so. Thinking differently opens new avenues of information. Even if I'm wrong 90% of the time, the 10% that I'm right about will be things you guys didn't see.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
What would you do as scum if one of your buddies was discovered... and then left alone? You can't buddy them because they are scum. You can't bus them, because the town determined they should be let live. You end up in an incredibly awkward situation where any interactions with that player are very dangerous. Then the townsfolk get to watch the scum interact with people and see what turns up. Obviously 100% of people wouldn't be in agreement about whether that player was scum, let alone whether they should have been let live. You also put the scum in a position where they need their ally dead.
IMO, the only correct play for the scum player at that point would be to clam up and not speak again. (Which then confirms they are scum.)
Another example of this comes from Cyberpunk where a scum claimed in LyLo. The town couldn't touch him for a variety of reasons though. He tried to just be quiet, but the town still found his ally based on interactions. He also couldn't help trying to prod the town a bit, which was able to be analyzed for more information gain.
Scum are leaking buckets of information that the town desperately need. The only reason to kill them is if you need to stop their abilities, or if you need to keep them from controlling the vote. The rest of the time living scum are beneficial to the town.
If I thought they were a guaranteed liability to get me caught I would shoot them during the night.
But since that is rare, and I only came close to killing my scumbuddy once I don't think that is an accurate answer most of the time.
Also your scenario only is able to catch bad scum. Good scum are able to perfectly balance bussing and barning. In those situations letting the scum live an extra day is a liability as they have more power for an extra day.
We can't discuss theory about "good" (or I would say "optimal") scum Guardman. Good scum would never scumslip and would never be caught. In a game where all of the scum were good, the town would have 0% chance to win except by randomizing the lynch and their night abilities.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
@Guardman: I know I think oppositely of everyone else here. I'm going to continue doing so. Thinking differently opens new avenues of information. Even if I'm wrong 90% of the time, the 10% that I'm right about will be things you guys didn't see.
It's one thing to think differently. But it's another to think differently when faced with well thought out reasons why your wrong.
The entire problem with your Info lynches is that it requires the scum to be bad. If they aren't then the town shoots themselves in the foot. We can't gamble on the scum being bad. Also if they are bad then we should be able to catch them the normal method.
Basically your Info Lynch play style has minimal upside with a lot of downside.
We can't discuss theory about "good" (or I would say "optimal") scum Guardman. Good scum would never scumslip and would never be caught. In a game where all of the scum were good, the town would have 0% chance to win except by randomizing the lynch and their night abilities.
Well put up a viable target, following your reasoning, who we should be going after, or stop spinning wheels on theory which is creating animosity within players and setting us up divided and not united.
We can't discuss theory about "good" (or I would say "optimal") scum Guardman. Good scum would never scumslip and would never be caught. In a game where all of the scum were good, the town would have 0% chance to win except by randomizing the lynch and their night abilities.
If we can only talk about bad scum then either method is acceptable as both can catch bad scum.
Like I said both have the opportunity to catch bad scum, but yours has a lot more downside.
Also your way gives more power to good scum and makes any good action they do be more powerful.
Um, it's not? It certainly looked like you were telling me to stop voting for Seppel and to switch my vote to Meg because Meg is Scum and we should lynch Scum over Self.
If that's NOT what you were telling me, then please clarify what you actually meant, because apparently it got lost in translation.
If that IS what you meant, then I stand by my response. You don't KNOW that Meg is Scum. You may be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt, but you don't know it for a fact. Or do you?
Or do I?
Maybe you should vote Megiddo and find out for yourself.
Quote from Ahlyis »
At any rate, whether you are convinced or not, I am not convinced. A smiley and an exclamation point are far from enough "proof" for me. Just because in one other game someone posted a smiley under similar circumstances and turned out to be Scum doesn't make for a convincing Scumtell. It takes more than a single example of something, especially something as esoteric as this is, before I'll start to accept that it just might really be a Scumtell.
That's not my side of the case on Megiddo. Are you reading the game?
Quote from Ahylis »
Seppel though is non-Town by his own admission. And while I think it likely he is Self aligned, that's not a certainty. But even with him being Self aligned, he's still a threat to Town by his own admission. He has said multiple times that he'll work in his own best interests regardless of whether those are also Town's best interests.
And in the meantime, why aren't you looking for players who are mafia-aligned instead of taking the easy way out? I think this is another issue I have with your stance so far.
Quote from Ahylis »
But most Day 1 cases are built on crap and end in a Townie lynch. Yes, Day 1 Scum lynches do occur, but they are far from the norm in my experience. I'd rather lynch a guaranteed non-Town than an unknown who has a shaky at best case against them.
Then you need to play here more often - we have a Day 1 scum lynch rate of over 50% here last time I checked. This is a really weak reason not to scumhunt on Day 1, so consider yourself in my "don't listen to this person's reads unless they align with your own" list.
We'll see if there's more to it than that, though.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Seppel: I'm making an assumption based on the fact that this is a specialty. For my example, high powered just has to mean that the scum have at least one power role amongst them.
1. This definition means that every basic game ever run on this site is "high powered."
2. When you think about "high-powered," your thoughts immediately go to what power roles the scum have??
@Guardman: I know I think oppositely of everyone else here. I'm going to continue doing so. Thinking differently opens new avenues of information. Even if I'm wrong 90% of the time, the 10% that I'm right about will be things you guys didn't see.
Awesome idea.
Here's my new way to play, I'm going to consult the Oracle (also known as random.org) for who Scum is, then pursue their lynch remorselessly. I mean, what the hell, why not? Your percentage only gives you 10% of the time to rub it in Town's face, I'm expecting at least a 25% success rate!
Again, we're going to have to agree to disagree. If you KNOW someone is Scum, the proper thing to do is to milk them for whatever you can that Day, but to LYNCH THEM!
Then why are you arguing theory instead of scumhunting?
Post #312: Hey Gricky, remember the last time you tried to get me lynched for my gut reads?
Are we arguing theory here or am I not just reading between the lines? Is there someone Dragonheart wants to go after that Ahylis does not? I know Ahylis has her vote on Seppel; is this what is upsetting you Dragonheart?
It seems like you two are going back and forth with the theory hammer but not singling out anyone in particular to argue a lynch for.
In addition, I'm not very good at Day 1. I will openly admit that while I have scum reads at the moment, I am not prepared to lynch anyone based on them. (I mean, for the sake of information, I would probably be willing to lynch Iso, Audinho, AsianInvasion, or Guardman.) Which is part of why my gathering information plan is so important to me.
I'm with Guardman on this one - information lynch is a weak lynch on Day 1. So instead, why don't you paint us a nice pretty diagram of what associations you have seen that make you think lynching me, Aud, AI, or GMan would be beneficial? Go into detail. Quote posts. Because it looks to me like you want to lynch 4 town.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
When you think about "high-powered," your thoughts immediately go to what power roles the scum have??
You are not a townie.
Unvote, vote Dragon.
I'm going to agree with Seppel here.
Furthermore, what is the purpose of Dragon pushing his argument so hard? He admits nobody really agrees with him, but keeps pushing it and trying to convince us it is good.
And what is the underlying premise of his argument?... let Scum live until LyLo.
I'm sorry, but that is NOT a Townie thing to push.
I am amused. Yes Ahlyis, let's listen to the claimed Neutral about why we should lynch the person who disagrees with you. Oh, and OMGUS!
@Iso: In order:
-Iso has interacted with a large number of the players, currently has a strong stance on Megiddo, and has actively buddied Audinho. His flip would help confirm or hunt Megiddo and Audinho, as well as set-up more interactions from multiple other people Iso has dealt with.
-Audinho I thought I had a decent meta read on, but I've become uncertain. He has barned people and voted for little reason. Most importantly though, if he is scum, Iso is likely also scum. (Not necessarily the other way around.)
-AsianInvasion claims to be a partner of a claimed Neutral. This makes him more likely to be a safe lynch. His partner has also claimed that he would be removed from the game if AI were to die today. The easiest way to check whether Seppel is Neutral or Scum is to lynch AI. Based on what they have both said, I would call that a nearly 100% chance of determining Seppel's true alignment.
-Guardman is on this list purely because he has been one of the more active players and I feel like there is much to be gained from re-reading him with his alignment confirmed. I feel that he has the most significant interactions to be examined amongst the remaining players.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
I am amused. Yes Ahlyis, let's listen to the claimed Neutral about why we should lynch the person who disagrees with you. Oh, and OMGUS!
@Iso: In order:
-Iso has interacted with a large number of the players, currently has a strong stance on Megiddo, and has actively buddied Audinho. His flip would help confirm or hunt Megiddo and Audinho, as well as set-up more interactions from multiple other people Iso has dealt with.
-Audinho I thought I had a decent meta read on, but I've become uncertain. He has barned people and voted for little reason. Most importantly though, if he is scum, Iso is likely also scum. (Not necessarily the other way around.)
-AsianInvasion claims to be a partner of a claimed Neutral. This makes him more likely to be a safe lynch. His partner has also claimed that he would be removed from the game if AI were to die today. The easiest way to check whether Seppel is Neutral or Scum is to lynch AI. Based on what they have both said, I would call that a nearly 100% chance of determining Seppel's true alignment.
-Guardman is on this list purely because he has been one of the more active players and I feel like there is much to be gained from re-reading him with his alignment confirmed. I feel that he has the most significant interactions to be examined amongst the remaining players.
1. Iso flipping Scum would mean not much as if Meg is scum he is a great bussing candidate because of his FoS slip. If Meg is town then he just plain screwed up really badly, though this is unlikely as his actions don't have a town mindset. As for Aud I think there is almost nothing to correlate between alignments. Aud is a great buddying target whether he is scum or town as he always plays poorly and nobody knows how he plays as scum. So overall there is no real useful info to gain via his lynch.
2. Aud is playing like Aud. Nobody knows how he plays as scum so any info we gleam from lynching him if he does turn up scum is moot at best. If turns up as town, we get no info whatsoever due the fact he is a great buddying target.
3. Trying to determine a claimed neutrals alignment on day 1 by info lynching is a waste of an info lynch if we did decide to go this route. Info lynching to gain info on a neutral is a waste of an info lynch and really helps no one except the scum.
4. I've been killed in games for many things (I once got vigged because I had the lowest post total of the remaining people in the game), but being lynched because it might provide info regardless of my alignment is wrong. I might be biased, but randomly lynching people because they might provide useful info is almost as bad as lynching people at random.
Also I don't like the fact you don't want to lynch anyone because you think they are scummy. You have shown zero disposition to scum hunt and you are actively trying to get non-scummy people lynched in preference to scummy ones in the name of info. This is despite the fact that you've been explained to many a time why your line of thinking has almost no upside and a lot of downside. I see nothing from you that says I am trying to help the town, all I see from you is trying to distract the town and convincing them to lynch people in the name of possible info that could lead to ccatching scum.
I support either a dragon or Meg lynch at this point.
So you choose to ignore where I am calling out Ahylis on a scumslip + OMGUS vote? Because I kind of call that scumhunting and it IS where my vote is. I'm discussing alternate theory and why it's useful... In addition to normal scum hunting.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
P.S. Congratulations on 5k posts Guardman. Also, you are scum. Your last sentence reads: "I support either of these two townies who seem like low hanging fruit."
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
Because when Void starts a game as scum, he's cautious and tries not to tread on any toes too soon. Here, he plunged headfist into scumhunting, and appears way off-base with his reasoning. Plus his tone when he plays as scum is waaay different. This is town Void.
Well, if you're scum, at least you've learned from Cyberpunk.
Does a perfect scum victory and a successful reviver gambit count? I convinced the town that my scumbuddy was a reviver in order to mislynch another townie and put them into LyLo where we won.
Because seriously, I'm pretty proud of myself. I demolished that game. I do need to work on my town game, although I feel like I did well in ST:V mafia as well. I'm not asking for fear, I'm asking for respect. In either case though, you are still a Neutral who doesn't help us at all.
That game was a bunch of town shooting themselves in the feet over and over. When I can provide a paragraph of stupid things the town did, you can't claim credit for it.
No, it's the wording of the first sentence. You posted that as though you were scum, and only changed the point of view in the second half. Who thinks like scum? Scum do.
And interestingly enough, you just got out of Avatar Mafia, where Wheat (town) was the one who did that.
Actually, this forum has an above-average Day 1 scum lynching rate. But more importantly, it's OK to lynch town on Day 1. The first few game days need to be devoted to finding information.
Honestly, until LyLo, our only objective is to find the scum - killing them can wait. If that means lynching townies so we get information from associations and seeing their flip, then that is what we should do. Lynching neutrals doesn't give us any information about the scum, and especially not nearly as much as lynching a townie would.
And yes, I just said it's a good idea to lynch townies. Come at me bros.
If I had a daykill, I would have just used it. I don't know if we should waste the lynch like that, but I am very interested in 2-for-1ing your team and/or finding out the truth. Then again, if you are the Neutral you claim, then we are still wasting our time dealing with you.
Explain this "2-for-1", when you're talking to a claimed Neutral. One who, may I note
The average lynching order all other things be equal:
loran > Cult > Scum > SK > Anti-Town Neutral > Info Lynch > Neutral > Shot in the Dark
As we can see by my list Info Lynches are way down there.
I'd put pure info lynches (the kind that Dragonheart references) only just above Shot in the Dark. At least Neutrals might decide to side with scum. That's not true with Dragonheart's info lynches.
Scum are the ones who you need to get information from. I would rather have a living scum talk to me and incriminate themselves and/or their buddies than a living townie who will scumhunt. (And be wrong the majority of the time.)
If they're outed scum, then they won't talk to you. They'll just clam up and sit around the whole time being a roadblock. That's if they're halfway intelligent.
I usually ask everyone's pronoun preferences at the start of the game, but for some reason this one started so fast I didn't think anyone would see it.
I apologize for any mistakes I made and/or future mistakes I'll make. It's a real touchy topic for me and I feel bad for doing it.
Assume male until corrected otherwise in some shape or form.
I'll give you a prime example. In Avatar, which just finished, this situation came up. The town wanted to lynch Zionite because they knew he was scum. By letting him live another day, they determined that Wheat_Grinder was his buddy and noticed all kinds of connections between him and myself.
If we hadn't pulled a surprise LyLo situation on them, we would have probably all been found in rapid succession and lost there.
I want to create situations like that earlier in the game when we still have time to use that information to our advantage.
That's because Wheat_Grinder was revived by Zionite. And you were already blatantly trying to save Zionite, and if the town had actually lynched Zionite like they should have done, a snowball in hell would have stood a better chance than you.
Seriously, who believes that a redirector could redirect to a dead person?
What would you do as scum if one of your buddies was discovered... and then left alone? You can't buddy them because they are scum. You can't bus them, because the town determined they should be let live. You end up in an incredibly awkward situation where any interactions with that player are very dangerous. Then the townsfolk get to watch the scum interact with people and see what turns up. Obviously 100% of people wouldn't be in agreement about whether that player was scum, let alone whether they should have been let live. You also put the scum in a position where they need their ally dead.
IMO, the only correct play for the scum player at that point would be to clam up and not speak again. (Which then confirms they are scum.)
I'm laughing so hard at you right now. If you're scum, you simply treat your buddy as what he is - outed scum - and play on. It's not terribly hard.
Another example of this comes from Cyberpunk where a scum claimed in LyLo. The town couldn't touch him for a variety of reasons though. He tried to just be quiet, but the town still found his ally based on interactions. He also couldn't help trying to prod the town a bit, which was able to be analyzed for more information gain.
Scum are leaking buckets of information that the town desperately need. The only reason to kill them is if you need to stop their abilities, or if you need to keep them from controlling the vote. The rest of the time living scum are beneficial to the town.
Did you seriously actually play in Cyberpunk?
Ged was not discovered due to zindabad's actions in any way. They were completely separate.
Here's my new way to play, I'm going to consult the Oracle (also known as random.org) for who Scum is, then pursue their lynch remorselessly. I mean, what the hell, why not? Your percentage only gives you 10% of the time to rub it in Town's face, I'm expecting at least a 25% success rate!
/sarcasm
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Pretty much, information lynches on town are absolutely stupid due to the fact that they're not necessarily right. They may believe they're right, but that's merely a belief. Their interactions have no hope of being analyzed as town, because that's merely them interacting with who they believe to be town.
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Random first time of doing a PBPA in like forever on Audinho in next post.
So you choose to ignore where I am calling out Ahylis on a scumslip + OMGUS vote? Because I kind of call that scumhunting and it IS where my vote is. I'm discussing alternate theory and why it's useful... In addition to normal scum hunting.
The problem is you haven't been discussing. You have been campaigning. You have been more dedicated to info lynching and have been pushing more for info lynching then actual scum hunting.
Your scum hunting consists of a player having a change of tone in a post where he is clearly parodying scum. You then for the most part drop hunting him and instead engage on trying to convince people we should be info lynching day 1. In fact the only real scumhunting towards Ahylis I've seen from you since you voted for him was berating and attacking his persons not his words/actions for agreeing with Seppel and for having a legitimate and good reason for voting you. Plus you called his vote OMGUS when it clearly wasn't.
1. Point granted, I normally take Iso's presence in a game very seriously, but this game also has Kpaca and Seppel and a whole bunch of peeps. Mostly I wanted a reaction from this point.
2. Why stomp it hard? Because you are riding it equally hard and I think it's totes scum motivation for pushing a lynch. That was the only analysis on the Void wagon, and it's justified by "IT HAPPENED BEFORE!". Newsflash: Lot's of things have happened before. I don't like the justification, I don't like the weak lynchpoint on void. Excuse me if I don't relent when I'm scumhunting.
3. It's not patronizing, it's a fair point.You posted barn post with multiple barns on it. Like "someone write up this case" and "Meg is apparently scum because Iso and Kpaca think so". Why don't you reread the thread and reach your own conclusions, post your own case? Iso comes by, tells you to read the quote of Meg in his last post and see how forced they are. You know what Iso quoted? This:
This is what Iso said about it:
And this is what he tells you:
And your respond with "Ahh yes, I've seen the light, you must be right /barnvote".
Iso's reasoning here is weak and it makes yours doubly weak by extension. You are looking for a case, a player quotes a post and votes, barely touching the reasoning behind it, and suddenly all your questions are answered. I'm not buying it and I think the wagon is scum-driven.
4a. You are nitpicking at words here, the important information is that you were anti-Iso and very wary of him and suddenly you are not, all because he basically tells you "FOLLOW ME!" Dragon's meta analysis of you being more confidant and buddying when scum leads me to believe you may be scum, if DH's meta analysis is correct. Again, not leaning on the meta argument, it's just another point against.
4b. Again, picky word issues, but you understand my point and are avoiding it. You had plenty of paranoia surrounding Iso coming into the game, and you deferred to Seppel to get a read. Seppel isn't being cooperative, not enough to give your the read on Iso, yet you are suddenly happy with following him around? If you are truly paranoid about a single player in a 23 player game, you wouldn't just forget about it the moment that player brings up a suspect. It's a flip-flop on your logic, it reads off and inconsistant and leads me to believe you are scum.
5. Kpaca's a neutral. AI is more than likely neutral too, and my theory regarding him and Seppel pretty much covers my opinions there. I'm thinking Iso's scum, but I've got more evidence against you, and your supposed "scumbuddy confidence meta" will tell more about Iso than Iso's play will about you. You are the best option and have had more than enough scummy actions to justify my vote on you.
1. You can't say "point granted, I just wanted a reaction" when you got a reaction and is still pressing the subject. That's like saying to the officer that just pulled you over for speeding that your wife is about to give birth in the back seat, then drop your wife off and continue speeding. (Weird analogy is weird, was the first thing to enter my mind)
2. My "riding it hard" was putting down a vote and defending why I did so. I stated several times that it was not a strong case, but a point that I felt needed to be put into the light.
3. I reread the thread. I read all of Megiddos posts. I'm not good at tells, so when someone says "oh yeah Hitler is scum, vote" I usually don't understand why. Both of kpacas and Isos votes were like that. I do however know that kpaca and Iso are strong players, that's why I wanted an explanation to what they found scummy. Iso pointed me to a specific post, which I reread several times, then realized the language was nothing like Rick Santorums. So my reasons to vote are not "Iso said so" as you are trying to make it seem, but a metacall as well as "kpaca and Iso said so". You see the case as weak because he was a gimmick then, I don't think that applies to changes in language.
4a. I'm not nitpicking on words. I'm calling you out on misrepresenting me. You are obviously trying to put me in a bad light since you think I'm scum, I'm defending myself by countering your arguments.
4b. No, I understand your point and your point is wrong. Take a step back and read it again, now knowing that my mistrust for Iso does not apply to alignment. Do you now see what I meant?
5. Please stop using Dragonhearts meta on me. It's not correct. As I said before, I've only played one scumgame and I were a wreck. I doubt Dragonheart even read it. I got no idea where he is getting this meta from.
Quote from Grickytimmick »
Wow really? If you plan on saying things like this, you had better plan on justifying your statements.
I had. Didn't have time to go over it point by point, was planning on going deeper into it when you replied. Now that you have, I'll do just that.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
First, the no-look barn onto Meg was totally that. You were all like "I don't see the case, just Iso and Kpaca's votes. What for?" Iso was all like "Hey, check this one quote out and the three or so words I posted about it!" and you were all like "That changes EVERYTHING! Vote". How is that not a no-look barnpost? And when I say no-look, I don't literally mean that you didn't look at anything before you voted, I mean that it was so casual and simple, it was like a no-look bounce pass, like planned teamwork, like scum would have. It was totally barny.
Second, the active lurking bit comes from you posting the "post the case for me" bit instead of doing your own work. You came in, gave a play-by-play of the gamestate and asked for work to be done, like my boss or something. It read as active lurking to me, like "here I am, not providing content or anything, but it's a post with lines and words and stuff, isn't that neat?"
Third, see the second point above, it plays back to your "post the case for me" post.
Fourth, isn't Dragon's meta analysis a fluid thing, open to interpretation? Or are you going to argue your own meta now? I'm seeing what Dragon said about your meta in this thread. I pretty sure that's my own opinion, if you'd like to correct me or the meta read, go ahead and do so, but calling me a liar? That's not about to change my opinion, no sir.
No-look barn: I've explained why it wasn't.
Active lurking: I'm never lurking, and I take great offence from beeing called a lurker. If I don't add proper content in my posts it's probably because I'm overwhelmed by the scale of the game, or simply can't think of anything to add. I utterly despise players coasting through games without playing in them, and I'm far from one of them. I post several times a day and try my best to add content with each post. Take now for an example. I'm dead tired, but I just spent the better part of an hour reading catching up with the thread and writing this post. I value paying attention highly.
Third: You should have quoted the post here, I'm to tired to go looking for it again. But since you are referring to the same point as the "No-look barn" I'll refer to my answer to that again.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
His wording is important in the post, mostly because it's clear that he's not going to go looking for the case himself. If he really wants to see it, he'll look at Meg's post and his play himself and make his own decisions. Instead, Iso pops in with weak analysis on a single post and Aud buys it for full face value, thus boiling all of Megs posts down to that single one, instead of seeing the entirety of Meg's play. Aud's bad here. I've explained how Aud is active lurking in my above points here, it's a somewhat extreme argument, I'll give it that, but it does apply to that post. The argument is more of a "Aud's being lazy" point than Active Lurking, I was just tired this morning and couldn't think of anything better to call it at the moment.
Bolded1:
Quote from Audinho »
Could someone put together the Megiddo-case for me, in plain text? I understood Isos reasons (weak and weird FoS and some grasping RVS-analysis), but I didn't understand kpacas at all.
It's pretty clear that I allready did but failed to grasp it.
Bolded2: I'm always bad. It's my meta
Bolded3: So to Wessel it's an extreme argument, but to me you are sticking with it full force? Trying not to step on toes, are we?
Bolded4: Then call me lazy, ffs. It's a world of difference. Still incorrect, but that doesn't provoke me as much. I think you are also aware that you can't really vote me for beeing lazy, so you are using the known scumtell Active Lurking to make your case look legit.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Uh, what in the hell makes you think it's a gambit and if you think it is, then why aren't you voting him?
Fishyfishyfissshh
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Like I said, Tordeck covered that point nicely. Must have stole some logics from Ahl.
It's a pretty well known fact that scum will try to divert town into neutral-hunting, is it not?
Well put up a viable target, following your reasoning, who we should be going after, or stop spinning wheels on theory which is creating animosity within players and setting us up divided and not united.
Furthermore, what is the purpose of Dragon pushing his argument so hard? He admits nobody really agrees with him, but keeps pushing it and trying to convince us it is good.
And what is the underlying premise of his argument?... let Scum live until LyLo.
I'm sorry, but that is NOT a Townie thing to push.
Unvote. Vote: Dragon
I don't agree with this. While I'm not agreeing with DH's theory, it seems well thought out and I can understand why he thinks it's the best way to do it. DH feels town. If the both of you now could go try catch scum instead of arguing theory, you would actually be contributing to the case.
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
"Explain this "2-for-1", when you're talking to a claimed Neutral. One who, may I note" should have the added-on part of ", you have not expressed any thoughts of him being scum so far."
Just a quick note before I get to that PBPA. (I feel sad saying it.)
Honestly, until LyLo, our only objective is to find the scum - killing them can wait. If that means lynching townies so we get information from associations and seeing their flip, then that is what we should do. Lynching neutrals doesn't give us any information about the scum, and especially not nearly as much as lynching a townie would.
And yes, I just said it's a good idea to lynch townies. Come at me bros.
I'll give you a prime example. In Avatar, which just finished, this situation came up. The town wanted to lynch Zionite because they knew he was scum. By letting him live another day, they determined that Wheat_Grinder was his buddy and noticed all kinds of connections between him and myself.
Qu[B]od est pauper exemplum. Ego erat non spumae. quom lynched.
P.S. Congratulations on 5k posts Guardman. Also, you are scum. Your last sentence reads: "I support either of these two townies who seem like low hanging fruit."
Dragon, are you totally oblivious to how scummy you're acting?
My vote is on Seppel until I get confirmation from AI. But you're advocating an information lynch on four players who have been ACTIVELY scumhunting. Sure there's a barn here, and a meta call there, but I'm going to say this again: this game hasn't even gone 72 hours and you're dreadfully worried about a scum victory that you're willing to string up Town?
This is my first Specialty, but can someone elucidate Dragon and myself on how many days a Day One usually takes in a specialty?
Ease back on the throttle, Dragon. Because I'm at the point where I'm more concerned with you kamikazing town than getting rid of a neutral who said he would play anti-town.
P.S. Congratulations on 5k posts Guardman. Also, you are scum. Your last sentence reads: "I support either of these two townies who seem like low hanging fruit."
Thank you for the 5K post compliment. I am expecting my name to appear in gold soon.
Also this right here is the definition of OMGUS. I attack you and you come back and attack me with no reason other than you are attacking easy targets despite the fact I've clearly explained my reasoning for my actions and votes.
I am pretty sure both Meg and Drag are scum. All things considered given this I would rather lynch Drag since it is better for my sanity.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
All of you are hopeless. I'm done with this discussion. How about you guys decide who to lynch today. I'll let you know if I see any serious logical errors or notice any scumslips. No one is listening to my rational and I don't scumhunt the same way you guys do. With so few interactions on Day 1, I don't see as much to attack yet. (And I definitely don't agree with the case on Megiddo.)
Let me know if you need me. I'll be reading along.
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In response to me defeating the town in a Perfect Scum Victory in Avatar Mafia:
All of you are hopeless. I'm done with this discussion. How about you guys decide who to lynch today. I'll let you know if I see any serious logical errors or notice any scumslips. No one is listening to my rational and I don't scumhunt the same way you guys do. With so few interactions on Day 1, I don't see as much to attack yet. (And I definitely don't agree with the case on Megiddo.)
Let me know if you need me. I'll be reading along.
This is the scummiest post I've ever seen. I retract all I said about Dragonhearts logic in my latest large post.
unvote, vote DragonHeart
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
All of you are hopeless. I'm done with this discussion. How about you guys decide who to lynch today. I'll let you know if I see any serious logical errors or notice any scumslips. No one is listening to my rational and I don't scumhunt the same way you guys do. With so few interactions on Day 1, I don't see as much to attack yet. (And I definitely don't agree with the case on Megiddo.)
Let me know if you need me. I'll be reading along.
Are we positive there are no Jesters in this setup?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
1. Point granted, I normally take Iso's presence in a game very seriously, but this game also has Kpaca and Seppel and a whole bunch of peeps. Mostly I wanted a reaction from this point.
2. Why stomp it hard? Because you are riding it equally hard and I think it's totes scum motivation for pushing a lynch. That was the only analysis on the Void wagon, and it's justified by "IT HAPPENED BEFORE!". Newsflash: Lot's of things have happened before. I don't like the justification, I don't like the weak lynchpoint on void. Excuse me if I don't relent when I'm scumhunting.
3. It's not patronizing, it's a fair point.You posted barn post with multiple barns on it. Like "someone write up this case" and "Meg is apparently scum because Iso and Kpaca think so". Why don't you reread the thread and reach your own conclusions, post your own case? Iso comes by, tells you to read the quote of Meg in his last post and see how forced they are. You know what Iso quoted? This:
This is what Iso said about it:
And this is what he tells you:
And your respond with "Ahh yes, I've seen the light, you must be right /barnvote".
Iso's reasoning here is weak and it makes yours doubly weak by extension. You are looking for a case, a player quotes a post and votes, barely touching the reasoning behind it, and suddenly all your questions are answered. I'm not buying it and I think the wagon is scum-driven.
4a. You are nitpicking at words here, the important information is that you were anti-Iso and very wary of him and suddenly you are not, all because he basically tells you "FOLLOW ME!" Dragon's meta analysis of you being more confidant and buddying when scum leads me to believe you may be scum, if DH's meta analysis is correct. Again, not leaning on the meta argument, it's just another point against.
4b. Again, picky word issues, but you understand my point and are avoiding it. You had plenty of paranoia surrounding Iso coming into the game, and you deferred to Seppel to get a read. Seppel isn't being cooperative, not enough to give your the read on Iso, yet you are suddenly happy with following him around? If you are truly paranoid about a single player in a 23 player game, you wouldn't just forget about it the moment that player brings up a suspect. It's a flip-flop on your logic, it reads off and inconsistant and leads me to believe you are scum.
5. Kpaca's a neutral. AI is more than likely neutral too, and my theory regarding him and Seppel pretty much covers my opinions there. I'm thinking Iso's scum, but I've got more evidence against you, and your supposed "scumbuddy confidence meta" will tell more about Iso than Iso's play will about you. You are the best option and have had more than enough scummy actions to justify my vote on you.
Wow really? If you plan on saying things like this, you had better plan on justifying your statements.
First, the no-look barn onto Meg was totally that. You were all like "I don't see the case, just Iso and Kpaca's votes. What for?" Iso was all like "Hey, check this one quote out and the three or so words I posted about it!" and you were all like "That changes EVERYTHING! Vote". How is that not a no-look barnpost? And when I say no-look, I don't literally mean that you didn't look at anything before you voted, I mean that it was so casual and simple, it was like a no-look bounce pass, like planned teamwork, like scum would have. It was totally barny.
Second, the active lurking bit comes from you posting the "post the case for me" bit instead of doing your own work. You came in, gave a play-by-play of the gamestate and asked for work to be done, like my boss or something. It read as active lurking to me, like "here I am, not providing content or anything, but it's a post with lines and words and stuff, isn't that neat?"
Third, see the second point above, it plays back to your "post the case for me" post.
Fourth, isn't Dragon's meta analysis a fluid thing, open to interpretation? Or are you going to argue your own meta now? I'm seeing what Dragon said about your meta in this thread. I pretty sure that's my own opinion, if you'd like to correct me or the meta read, go ahead and do so, but calling me a liar? That's not about to change my opinion, no sir.
Since a long time. It makes them seem helpful and act townie when they really aren't doing anything at all. Tordeck answered this nicely.
QUOTE=Wessel;8600325]I've had Megiddo (together with Void and Proph) as a target before I put my vote on it. I just made my mind up between those three in that specific post. Your subversion of the "town's" (as you so rightly say) focus on Proph and Megiddo just makes me think you might be trying to help them out. It makes me think you're in the same team as they are.[/QUOTE]
So, you are tunneling me then? Like, "Hey here's my reads. And there's this guy who has other reads, some of them contrary to mine. He must be scum too then."
Ok, well, in a 23 player game, people are going to have other reads than you. This point reads as either inexperience or scummy tunneling. You don't seem to be inexperienced either. Also, for not even the 300th post in the game, you sure do have the scumteam pinned down quick don't ya? Also, I wasn't aware that Proph was a point of focus for the town, I guess I'll reread that, or is he somehow tied to Meg?
QUOTE=Wessel;8600325]Who would you prefer to lynch first, kpaca or Seppel? Or in other words, what do you think is more likely, that kpaca is lying and he's actually a cult leader (or a scum pulling a gambit), or that Seppel is lying and he's actually trying to recruit 'the lost scum'.[/QUOTE]
Good question. Probably Seppel. There's an off chance that Kpaca is not what he says he is, but he's actually providing some content to this game and tends to have excellent reads. If my theory about Seppel is right, we catch two scum, with AI more than likely being scum too. If things are hairy late in the game and Kpaca's still around, he's a lynch target, but otherwise I think he's pretty straightforward.
QUOTE=Wessel;8600325]I think Audinho's vote for Void was not indicative of being scum but rather indicative of him being eager. Also, what makes you think Audinho is active lurking? That post in which he asks for someone to explain kpaca's case on Megiddo? I don't agree with your stance that Audinho was asking others to 'play this game for him'. Your argument basically boils down to his choice of wording, not the meaning behind them. I agree that semantics can be of importance, but in this case I'm not seeing it.[/QUOTE]
His wording is important in the post, mostly because it's clear that he's not going to go looking for the case himself. If he really wants to see it, he'll look at Meg's post and his play himself and make his own decisions. Instead, Iso pops in with weak analysis on a single post and Aud buys it for full face value, thus boiling all of Megs posts down to that single one, instead of seeing the entirety of Meg's play. Aud's bad here. I've explained how Aud is active lurking in my above points here, it's a somewhat extreme argument, I'll give it that, but it does apply to that post. The argument is more of a "Aud's being lazy" point than Active Lurking, I was just tired this morning and couldn't think of anything better to call it at the moment.
QUOTE=Wessel;8600325]Is it just OMGUS, or do you have actually anything to back it up? I'm not following Iso, I just have the same view on the game atm as he does. That I am surprised by that is mostly because I tend to disagree with him at first. Just look at Osteria mafia for example.
Anyway, do you think Iso is scum?[/QUOTE]
Yes, I think Iso is scum. Mostly because his play on the Meg wagon really really reminds me of his scum game in Trisk Mafia, a Seppel modded game I might add. He "trapped" a new player on D1 who made a slip and let the town, me specifically, write the case and carry the newb town away, the whole time not really adding anything to the case other than "dude's scum", but claiming to be a major part of the case anyway.
This isn't the exact same situations, but it's giving me reminders. Like the incredibly minor point that Iso latched onto to cause both situations. It also feels like he's just setting it up for townies to carry away the train for him, like possibly you. The scummy vibes I have from you come from your trust in Iso pushing a single weak point as far as he can and the trust in the Meg case in general. Adding me to your scumlist because of the "protection" theory seems like a large leap in logic and scummy tunnelvisioning on your current reads. So no, it's not OMGUS.
That being said, I'll admit that you are the weakest link in my theory and have a much better presence on the Meg wagon than both Iso and Aud. I makes me think maybe you will be the townie that ends up pushing the wagon for them. My scum vibes from you are more of a IGMEOY than a vote or anything more serious. I'm just suspicious of people following that case in general.
Once again, reminds me of Trisk when I asked you to show me where you added to the Vitek case and you couldn't produce. Small general statements like this is your scum MO, so you'd better explain yourself. I've got no problem voting you anyway, I'd just rather lynch Aud because I've got a lot more to go off of.
This guy. This guy's got the logics. All of it.
Uh, what in the hell makes you think it's a gambit and if you think it is, then why aren't you voting him?
Like I said, Tordeck covered that point nicely. Must have stole some logics from Ahl.
Well, one way gives us a lot more information about the other scum. Making the town more informed about players and interactions, then watching a potential scum interact and try to influence us for another day, puts us in a much better spot to find the rest of that scum's team.
It's good to lynch some scum earlier, especially considering that information lynches and scum lynches are not mutually exclusive. Often the best way to gather information is to lynch scum.
Because of the high powered nature of this game, that will likely be true here in almost all cases. Lynching someone who is very likely to be scum and denying them another night of using their ability will probably outweigh the additional information we could gain by letting them live. In a lower powered set-up, I would argue that there is no hurry to lynch them once they have been found.
Neutrals are good to lynch when you are getting close to LyLo and/or are afraid to lynch town power roles. They are also good to lynch when they have actually provided useful interactions with other players and you doubt their neutrality. (E.G. If you think they are scum.)
It seems like you two are going back and forth with the theory hammer but not singling out anyone in particular to argue a lynch for.
That should read "his vote". Damn. I hate it when I do that.
Ahlyis is a dude, dude. Pretty sure.
Yeah I messed up and corrected it EBWODP.
I usually ask everyone's pronoun preferences at the start of the game, but for some reason this one started so fast I didn't think anyone would see it.
I apologize for any mistakes I made and/or future mistakes I'll make. It's a real touchy topic for me and I feel bad for doing it.
Tl;Dr- Sorry
I'm confused. How does all this work.
We find Scum.
All (or at least a majority) of the Town knows he is Scum.
We leave him alive to watch his interactions.
We lynch him later and then lynch all his buddies we found by leaving him alive.
Is that the general idea here? If so, I've got a question... Why do you assume Scum will be so stupid that they don't know they've been caught even though at least half the rest of the players know it? Because, without that, why do you assume their interactions are natural and not designed to lead you astray?
No worries. I don't really care either way. I know a lot of people end up assuming my name is Alice. It's not. I am a guy. But whether people refer to me as male or female doesn't really matter, does it?
Even more people get confused when I use that avatar.
If we hadn't pulled a surprise LyLo situation on them, we would have probably all been found in rapid succession and lost there.
I want to create situations like that earlier in the game when we still have time to use that information to our advantage.
In addition, I'm not very good at Day 1. I will openly admit that while I have scum reads at the moment, I am not prepared to lynch anyone based on them. (I mean, for the sake of information, I would probably be willing to lynch Iso, Audinho, AsianInvasion, or Guardman.) Which is part of why my gathering information plan is so important to me.
At the start of the game the town has breathing room. I want to use it as a resource to gather the maximum amount of information. If you guys can actually catch scum, which I've seen happen surprisingly often around here, then feel free. Otherwise I'm preparing for LyLo starting right now and I intend to find the scum.
Were all these connections only in posts made during that extra day he was granted? Or were they already there for the most part?
If the connections only happened during that extra day, then I don't know what to say except to suggest that perhaps Zionite and Wheat_Grinder should've played better.
I mean, if Scum know they've been caught and they go ahead and provide links to each other anyway, well, I can't believe that is the norm.
Just because it happened once doesn't mean it will always happen.
Ahlyis has made approximately 100% of his posts debating theory and pushing a fearmongering lynch onto me, and approximately 0% doing anything else.
Inside information!
Also look at this way. Scum are strongest when all together as they are open to many different scenarios of who performs the kill and open to using any powers they may have. With each scum we lynch it takes away a kill performer, gives us an extra day, and a good chance we would be taking away a role with power since this is a specialty.
Info lynches give us info which may or may not prove useful later.
The smart thing is to take the 2-point lay up and lynch scum then go for the three pointer and try to get two scum for the price of one when it could end up shooting us in the foot.
IMO, the only correct play for the scum player at that point would be to clam up and not speak again. (Which then confirms they are scum.)
Another example of this comes from Cyberpunk where a scum claimed in LyLo. The town couldn't touch him for a variety of reasons though. He tried to just be quiet, but the town still found his ally based on interactions. He also couldn't help trying to prod the town a bit, which was able to be analyzed for more information gain.
Scum are leaking buckets of information that the town desperately need. The only reason to kill them is if you need to stop their abilities, or if you need to keep them from controlling the vote. The rest of the time living scum are beneficial to the town.
@Guardman: I know I think oppositely of everyone else here. I'm going to continue doing so. Thinking differently opens new avenues of information. Even if I'm wrong 90% of the time, the 10% that I'm right about will be things you guys didn't see.
If I thought they were a guaranteed liability to get me caught I would shoot them during the night.
But since that is rare, and I only came close to killing my scumbuddy once I don't think that is an accurate answer most of the time.
Also your scenario only is able to catch bad scum. Good scum are able to perfectly balance bussing and barning. In those situations letting the scum live an extra day is a liability as they have more power for an extra day.
It's one thing to think differently. But it's another to think differently when faced with well thought out reasons why your wrong.
The entire problem with your Info lynches is that it requires the scum to be bad. If they aren't then the town shoots themselves in the foot. We can't gamble on the scum being bad. Also if they are bad then we should be able to catch them the normal method.
Basically your Info Lynch play style has minimal upside with a lot of downside.
Well put up a viable target, following your reasoning, who we should be going after, or stop spinning wheels on theory which is creating animosity within players and setting us up divided and not united.
If we can only talk about bad scum then either method is acceptable as both can catch bad scum.
Like I said both have the opportunity to catch bad scum, but yours has a lot more downside.
Also your way gives more power to good scum and makes any good action they do be more powerful.
Or do I?
Maybe you should vote Megiddo and find out for yourself.
That's not my side of the case on Megiddo. Are you reading the game?
And in the meantime, why aren't you looking for players who are mafia-aligned instead of taking the easy way out? I think this is another issue I have with your stance so far.
Then you need to play here more often - we have a Day 1 scum lynch rate of over 50% here last time I checked. This is a really weak reason not to scumhunt on Day 1, so consider yourself in my "don't listen to this person's reads unless they align with your own" list.
We'll see if there's more to it than that, though.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Second I have realized as sad as it is that this is DH's town play.
Third I have also realized that this game so far is Iso's scum play.
unvote, vote Iso
Strictly a meta call. Iso posts more as town then he has here.
The Family
1. This definition means that every basic game ever run on this site is "high powered."
2. When you think about "high-powered," your thoughts immediately go to what power roles the scum have??
You are not a townie.
Unvote, vote Dragon.
Awesome idea.
Here's my new way to play, I'm going to consult the Oracle (also known as random.org) for who Scum is, then pursue their lynch remorselessly. I mean, what the hell, why not? Your percentage only gives you 10% of the time to rub it in Town's face, I'm expecting at least a 25% success rate!
/sarcasm
Okay. But why isn't it beneficial to lynch scum before we take down Neutrals?
Play the damn game.
Then don't do it the way Dragonheart suggested it. Your posts are making me angry. Stop it.
Buy a new one on eBay!
Yeh. Kind of what I'm getting at with Ahylis, but I don't necessarily believe he's scum at this point - just not to the standards we expect.
Then why are you arguing theory instead of scumhunting?
Post #312: Hey Gricky, remember the last time you tried to get me lynched for my gut reads?
Same page as me. Good thing.
I'm with Guardman on this one - information lynch is a weak lynch on Day 1. So instead, why don't you paint us a nice pretty diagram of what associations you have seen that make you think lynching me, Aud, AI, or GMan would be beneficial? Go into detail. Quote posts. Because it looks to me like you want to lynch 4 town.
Seems likely!
I can't post when I'm not at my computer, dufus. My friend from the Army is here this week. He just got back from Hawaii.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm going to agree with Seppel here.
Furthermore, what is the purpose of Dragon pushing his argument so hard? He admits nobody really agrees with him, but keeps pushing it and trying to convince us it is good.
And what is the underlying premise of his argument?... let Scum live until LyLo.
I'm sorry, but that is NOT a Townie thing to push.
Unvote. Vote: Dragon
@Iso: In order:
-Iso has interacted with a large number of the players, currently has a strong stance on Megiddo, and has actively buddied Audinho. His flip would help confirm or hunt Megiddo and Audinho, as well as set-up more interactions from multiple other people Iso has dealt with.
-Audinho I thought I had a decent meta read on, but I've become uncertain. He has barned people and voted for little reason. Most importantly though, if he is scum, Iso is likely also scum. (Not necessarily the other way around.)
-AsianInvasion claims to be a partner of a claimed Neutral. This makes him more likely to be a safe lynch. His partner has also claimed that he would be removed from the game if AI were to die today. The easiest way to check whether Seppel is Neutral or Scum is to lynch AI. Based on what they have both said, I would call that a nearly 100% chance of determining Seppel's true alignment.
-Guardman is on this list purely because he has been one of the more active players and I feel like there is much to be gained from re-reading him with his alignment confirmed. I feel that he has the most significant interactions to be examined amongst the remaining players.
#1 It's stupid
#2 He's a Neutral
1. Iso flipping Scum would mean not much as if Meg is scum he is a great bussing candidate because of his FoS slip. If Meg is town then he just plain screwed up really badly, though this is unlikely as his actions don't have a town mindset. As for Aud I think there is almost nothing to correlate between alignments. Aud is a great buddying target whether he is scum or town as he always plays poorly and nobody knows how he plays as scum. So overall there is no real useful info to gain via his lynch.
2. Aud is playing like Aud. Nobody knows how he plays as scum so any info we gleam from lynching him if he does turn up scum is moot at best. If turns up as town, we get no info whatsoever due the fact he is a great buddying target.
3. Trying to determine a claimed neutrals alignment on day 1 by info lynching is a waste of an info lynch if we did decide to go this route. Info lynching to gain info on a neutral is a waste of an info lynch and really helps no one except the scum.
4. I've been killed in games for many things (I once got vigged because I had the lowest post total of the remaining people in the game), but being lynched because it might provide info regardless of my alignment is wrong. I might be biased, but randomly lynching people because they might provide useful info is almost as bad as lynching people at random.
Also I don't like the fact you don't want to lynch anyone because you think they are scummy. You have shown zero disposition to scum hunt and you are actively trying to get non-scummy people lynched in preference to scummy ones in the name of info. This is despite the fact that you've been explained to many a time why your line of thinking has almost no upside and a lot of downside. I see nothing from you that says I am trying to help the town, all I see from you is trying to distract the town and convincing them to lynch people in the name of possible info that could lead to ccatching scum.
I support either a dragon or Meg lynch at this point.
How so?
I'd like it.
Now explain the reason for this statement.
That game was a bunch of town shooting themselves in the feet over and over. When I can provide a paragraph of stupid things the town did, you can't claim credit for it.
And interestingly enough, you just got out of Avatar Mafia, where Wheat (town) was the one who did that.
This doesn't ring right.
Please hold while I laugh. Long and hard.
Curious: does your "finding" take precedence over a kill?
Explain this "2-for-1", when you're talking to a claimed Neutral. One who, may I note
Just be glad Artifice isn't in here as well...
If he were, I'd just sit back until one of them died because I can't bother to sift through the insanity.
I'd put pure info lynches (the kind that Dragonheart references) only just above Shot in the Dark. At least Neutrals might decide to side with scum. That's not true with Dragonheart's info lynches.
If they're outed scum, then they won't talk to you. They'll just clam up and sit around the whole time being a roadblock. That's if they're halfway intelligent.
Assume male until corrected otherwise in some shape or form.
Works for me.
That's because Wheat_Grinder was revived by Zionite. And you were already blatantly trying to save Zionite, and if the town had actually lynched Zionite like they should have done, a snowball in hell would have stood a better chance than you.
Seriously, who believes that a redirector could redirect to a dead person?
I'm laughing so hard at you right now. If you're scum, you simply treat your buddy as what he is - outed scum - and play on. It's not terribly hard.
Did you seriously actually play in Cyberpunk?
Ged was not discovered due to zindabad's actions in any way. They were completely separate.
I'm just going to call it sad in general.
How so? Do you have any reason outside post count, and if so, what?
---
Pretty much, information lynches on town are absolutely stupid due to the fact that they're not necessarily right. They may believe they're right, but that's merely a belief. Their interactions have no hope of being analyzed as town, because that's merely them interacting with who they believe to be town.
---
Random first time of doing a PBPA in like forever on Audinho in next post.
The problem is you haven't been discussing. You have been campaigning. You have been more dedicated to info lynching and have been pushing more for info lynching then actual scum hunting.
Your scum hunting consists of a player having a change of tone in a post where he is clearly parodying scum. You then for the most part drop hunting him and instead engage on trying to convince people we should be info lynching day 1. In fact the only real scumhunting towards Ahylis I've seen from you since you voted for him was berating and attacking his persons not his words/actions for agreeing with Seppel and for having a legitimate and good reason for voting you. Plus you called his vote OMGUS when it clearly wasn't.
1. You can't say "point granted, I just wanted a reaction" when you got a reaction and is still pressing the subject. That's like saying to the officer that just pulled you over for speeding that your wife is about to give birth in the back seat, then drop your wife off and continue speeding. (Weird analogy is weird, was the first thing to enter my mind)
2. My "riding it hard" was putting down a vote and defending why I did so. I stated several times that it was not a strong case, but a point that I felt needed to be put into the light.
3. I reread the thread. I read all of Megiddos posts. I'm not good at tells, so when someone says "oh yeah Hitler is scum, vote" I usually don't understand why. Both of kpacas and Isos votes were like that. I do however know that kpaca and Iso are strong players, that's why I wanted an explanation to what they found scummy. Iso pointed me to a specific post, which I reread several times, then realized the language was nothing like Rick Santorums. So my reasons to vote are not "Iso said so" as you are trying to make it seem, but a metacall as well as "kpaca and Iso said so". You see the case as weak because he was a gimmick then, I don't think that applies to changes in language.
4a. I'm not nitpicking on words. I'm calling you out on misrepresenting me. You are obviously trying to put me in a bad light since you think I'm scum, I'm defending myself by countering your arguments.
4b. No, I understand your point and your point is wrong. Take a step back and read it again, now knowing that my mistrust for Iso does not apply to alignment. Do you now see what I meant?
5. Please stop using Dragonhearts meta on me. It's not correct. As I said before, I've only played one scumgame and I were a wreck. I doubt Dragonheart even read it. I got no idea where he is getting this meta from.
I had. Didn't have time to go over it point by point, was planning on going deeper into it when you replied. Now that you have, I'll do just that.
No-look barn: I've explained why it wasn't.
Active lurking: I'm never lurking, and I take great offence from beeing called a lurker. If I don't add proper content in my posts it's probably because I'm overwhelmed by the scale of the game, or simply can't think of anything to add. I utterly despise players coasting through games without playing in them, and I'm far from one of them. I post several times a day and try my best to add content with each post. Take now for an example. I'm dead tired, but I just spent the better part of an hour reading catching up with the thread and writing this post. I value paying attention highly.
Third: You should have quoted the post here, I'm to tired to go looking for it again. But since you are referring to the same point as the "No-look barn" I'll refer to my answer to that again.
Bolded1:
It's pretty clear that I allready did but failed to grasp it.
Bolded2: I'm always bad. It's my meta
Bolded3: So to Wessel it's an extreme argument, but to me you are sticking with it full force? Trying not to step on toes, are we?
Bolded4: Then call me lazy, ffs. It's a world of difference. Still incorrect, but that doesn't provoke me as much. I think you are also aware that you can't really vote me for beeing lazy, so you are using the known scumtell Active Lurking to make your case look legit.
Fishyfishyfissshh
It's a pretty well known fact that scum will try to divert town into neutral-hunting, is it not?
+1
I don't agree with this. While I'm not agreeing with DH's theory, it seems well thought out and I can understand why he thinks it's the best way to do it. DH feels town. If the both of you now could go try catch scum instead of arguing theory, you would actually be contributing to the case.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
Just a quick note before I get to that PBPA. (I feel sad saying it.)
Omnes qui curare. Ego lynch eos.
~Dissentio in canentium stilo~
Qu[B]od est pauper exemplum. Ego erat non spumae. quom lynched.
Quod est terribilis ratiocinatio.
---
Invenio ipse convenientia apud Wessel saepe.
Guardman et Iso. habere bonum Ratiocinatio super Megiddo. Ego sum non certus in kpaca scripsit Ratiocinatio. Megiddo est adhuc mafia licet.
[/B]Unvote, Vote: Megiddo[/b]
Non similis quam Audinho. ludit. eatenus
Non similis. quomodo "Infinis" est piscandi. ~est fabricatio sumpserit~
Non est mihi. bonum affectus de Tordeck
Puto nos relinquere. Seppel et Kpaca. solus enim nunc. moueat nos de. Mafia pro nunc
Oppidum: Wessel, Ahlyis, fluffyn00b
Forte Oppidum: Void, Arnnaria, Guardman, GrickyTimmick
Forte Mafia: Audinho, Tordeck, Infinis
Mafia: Megiddo
Dragon, are you totally oblivious to how scummy you're acting?
My vote is on Seppel until I get confirmation from AI. But you're advocating an information lynch on four players who have been ACTIVELY scumhunting. Sure there's a barn here, and a meta call there, but I'm going to say this again: this game hasn't even gone 72 hours and you're dreadfully worried about a scum victory that you're willing to string up Town?
This is my first Specialty, but can someone elucidate Dragon and myself on how many days a Day One usually takes in a specialty?
Ease back on the throttle, Dragon. Because I'm at the point where I'm more concerned with you kamikazing town than getting rid of a neutral who said he would play anti-town.
Unvote, Vote: Megiddo
Thank you for the 5K post compliment. I am expecting my name to appear in gold soon.
Also this right here is the definition of OMGUS. I attack you and you come back and attack me with no reason other than you are attacking easy targets despite the fact I've clearly explained my reasoning for my actions and votes.
I am pretty sure both Meg and Drag are scum. All things considered given this I would rather lynch Drag since it is better for my sanity.
Unvote
Vote Dragon
Gods. Please read through my latest posts for answers to questions you may have from the earlier ones. I hate repeating myself several times.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
Catching up on what I just missed.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Do what I do: Work from home.
I got to work in my PJs all day today. It would've been in my robe but it was to hot today.
Let me know if you need me. I'll be reading along.
This is the scummiest post I've ever seen. I retract all I said about Dragonhearts logic in my latest large post.
unvote, vote DragonHeart
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
Are we positive there are no Jesters in this setup?
Unvote Seppel
Vote Dragonheart
Cyouni: What did you mean by "If you're scum you've learned since Cyberpunk"?
RE: Wheat: I am unable to access the translator at this moment. Can someone please repost his big post in English?
Love Aud's big post.
Guardman, I can't do security from home.
Dragonheart, we're lynching Megiddo. Since you asked.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
[QUOTE = Wheat_Grinder; 8602882] All who care about this. I Lynch them.
I disagree with those who play in the style ~ ~
That is a poor example. I was not scum. When lynched.
That is terrible logic.
---
I often find myself agreeing with Wessel.
Guardman and iso. have a good reasoning on Megiddo. I am not sure kpaca he wrote in the reasoning. Megiddo is still Mafia though.
Unvote, Votes: of Megiddo [/ b]
I do not like how Audinho. plays. so far
I do not like. How is "infinitesimal" is fishing. building is assumed to ~ ~
I do not have. good feelings of Tordeck
I think we should leave. Seppel and Kpaca. alone for now. we should be worried about. Mafia for now
Town, Wessel, Ahlyis, fluffyn00b
Perhaps the town, Void, Arnnaria, Guardman, GrickyTimmick
Perhaps Mafia: Audinho, Tordeck, it extends
Mafia: Megiddo [/ QUOTE]
Currently rereading the thread.