Megiddo is scum if I remember correctly. Be back with the reason (it's original, I promise!) tomorrow.
It could be that I'm misremembering ånd it wasn't Megiddos statement, I'll look into it as slik as I can.
I did not remember correctly. I've gone over Megiddos posts and theres nothing there like what I remembered. Since Void has been away, it's not in his posts either, and since this was highly tied to Ghost Story it means whoever said it didn't have the backstory, ie probably didn't do it on purpose.
It's been a while since Megiddo has provided anything other than translations of Wheatposts and fluff. Hasn't been adding anything to the thread since his wagon was at it's peak (give or take). I'll go read over Ahlyis PBPA again and see if I agree with it.
Terrible long catch-up post from Void, going in with one opinion and coming out with another. Seems very voidy. Town points.
Zajnet provided a good reason for not posting, back to null.
Tordeck feels very, very townie.
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
I like that Meg acknowledged the "case" against him, but dismissed it as ridiculous and never got into a fight over it, just ignored it after that. That is a Townie reaction in my book.
I'm really finding Meg to be Townie at this point. Iso on the other hand looked worse and worse as things progressed.
Unvote (if I was voting anyone). Vote: Iso
First of all, I don't agree with half of your pbpa. You go into the PBPA looking for a smiley-case on Megs, and analyses half of his posts with this in mind. Then you realize the case isn't even on Megs (not paying attention much?), but you still leave it in. The boss is coming, look busy.
Your reason for voting here: Iso looked bad. No more, no less. I can understand that you are implying that Isos case on Megs was bad, ergo Iso is scum. I can understand that, but:
Might I suggest you do a PbPA of Iso's posts? I know that I for one would be VERY interested in seeing one.
Nobody else has done one yet. It's something you could do which would both compile all of Iso's posts into one location as well as give all of us your personal analysis of someone rather than simply what you barn off of everyone else.
Why did you make a pbpa of Megiddo when Iso was the one you were suspecting? Why didn't you make it of Iso?
I also have the feeling that you are trying to buddy me around theese posts, but I might be confusing that with you just beeing helpful.
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
I did go hunting. I even quoted all of the pieces I found... which were exactly 2 posts covering exactly 1 topic.
You claim there is more, but any time someone asks you what more there is, you either ignore them completely, or as you just did with me, you simply claim it's there somewhere and try to make it our responsibility to find it. It's YOUR case. If you've really got something more, then it is YOUR responsibility to post it!
Nope. You're accusing me of not substantiating my case. Burden of proof is on you to find it. I promise it's there. And as for why I haven't bothered looking for it to find it for you to show you yet, it's because one of my biggest peeves is repeating myself, ESPECIALLY in Mafia when my posts are all there for you to look at.
(Fun fact: This is similar to how Gricky mentioned getting information out of me was like pulling teeth in Homestuck because I also refused to repeat myself, then. :D)
That was also a great game to read! Here’s to hoping that Ged makes another Normal.
He has. I reviewed it.
Quote from Void »
Seppel nailed it here. Dragon is scum and tordeck is a good buddy of his. I’m still liking Audinho, Meggido and Infinis (Infinis to much much lesser extent at this point) as scum.
When and why did you start liking Megiddo as scum? I have not seen you express this yet - on the contrary, your initial read of him was town.
Quote from Void »
He absolutely did.
Did you miss the part where Gricky showed us that Dragon is town? And that Gricky is scum?
Why the sudden 180 on DH? Why do you think Gricky is scum?
@meta proof - its based of number of posts and and how many games ive been /in, /spectate or /mod recently with Iso. His posting style here is more in line with his scum games than his town ones. (claims RL but who knows and only mentioned RL after I voted him for it)
So that must mean I was scum in Avatar and Gotham, right?
Are you really going to Mafia-teabag me for having a social life for 3 days? I can show you a picture of my friend and me together from the other day. Hell, I can tell you all the stuff we did together. Just say the word and I will paint you a picture of a day in the life of Iso.
Quote from tordeck »
good post though, - you go in the leaning town pile while proph goes to the leaning scum pile
What about Proph don't you like?
Got off of work an hour ago. Mafia Secretary stuff (since I'm way behind), sleep, then Gricky's post.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Void: I always try to announce the reasoning behind my vote and/or unvote in the thread. Charm had just said that he was ready to do a votecount (or people were clamoring for one), so I wanted to make sure the vote was off you by the time it happened. Nothing more, nothing less.
Seppel nailed it here. Dragon is scum and tordeck is a good buddy of his. I’m still liking Audinho, Meggido and Infinis (Infinis to much much lesser extent at this point) as scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
First of all, I don't agree with half of your pbpa. You go into the PBPA looking for a smiley-case on Megs, and analyses half of his posts with this in mind. Then you realize the case isn't even on Megs (not paying attention much?), but you still leave it in. The boss is coming, look busy.
I thought about changing parts of it, but felt it was better to leave it as it occurred. Although I went in thinking the smiley case was against Meg, I still analysed each post individually and reported anything I saw, whether it was smiley related or not.
Your reason for voting here: Iso looked bad. No more, no less. I can understand that you are implying that Isos case on Megs was bad, ergo Iso is scum.
I agree that my Iso vote needs more support. I'll do a PbPA of Iso if I have to, but was hoping you might do it for me since I'd already spent a ton of time doing the PbPA on Meg. And before anyone says it, I wasn't planning to simply barn whatever you found, but would have used it as a quick guide to finding all of Iso's posts for my own analysis.
Why did you make a pbpa of Megiddo when Iso was the one you were suspecting? Why didn't you make it of Iso?
I didn't go in suspecting Iso over Meg. I didn't know which of them, if either, I was going to find scummy. But the case was against Meg, so I analyzed Meg's posts to see what, if anything, there was to the case. When I found nothing there, I started looking at who was pushing the phantom case... Iso.
I also have the feeling that you are trying to buddy me around theese posts, but I might be confusing that with you just beeing helpful.
I'll be helpful any time I can, but suggesting the PbPA served 2 purposes. It would help you find a way to post your own thoughts, regardless of what others had already posted, and it would compile Iso's posts into one convenient location for me.
Nope. You're accusing me of not substantiating my case. Burden of proof is on you to find it. I promise it's there.
No, it's not.
It is YOUR case, not mine. The burden is on YOU to ensure everyone knows what your case is.
I could understand your sentiment if you had already posted your case multiple times and others were simply refusing to look back a few posts to find it and just wanted the easy way out of having you repeat yourself, again. But that's NOT what is going on here. I HAVE gone back looking for your case, and I CANNOT FIND IT.
Given I've looked for it, cannot find it and you refuse to do anything other than insist it is hidden back there somewhere, I can only conclude that you don't want anyone to know what your case really is. That is scummy as hell!
I don't think I need to do any PbPA on you, the stuff you're giving right now is scummy enough to warrant a vote!
And as for why I haven't bothered looking for it to find it for you to show you yet, it's because one of my biggest peeves is repeating myself, ESPECIALLY in Mafia when my posts are all there for you to look at.
Townies generally want to be helpful. They generally WANT people to know why they think someone is Scum. Yes, they can get frustrated and fed up with having to repeat the same thing over and over, but when another player honestly tries and fails to understand and then asks for help in understanding, a good Townie WILL try to help.
Yet you continually refuse. Why? Are you just not a good Townie? Or are you not a Townie at all? Given my vote, I think it clear where I stand on that.
(Fun fact: This is similar to how Gricky mentioned getting information out of me was like pulling teeth in Homestuck because I also refused to repeat myself, then. :D)
A history of anti-Town behavior isn't going to win you any Townie points in my book!
Megiddo currently has a random stage vote on Prophy, meaning he still has his vote. The fact he just FoSed Aud is bad and seems like he doesn't want to be connected with an attack on aud.
I am voting you for FoSing Aud. Basically FoSing is scummy because it is designed to put pressure on without commitment. Town have no need of FoSing unless their vote is tied up somewhere else. Yours was tied up in the RVS so it was technically free. Scum on the other are much more likely to FoS as it applies pressure, has no commitment, and does not show up in a vote count. Therefore they are usually the only people to ever FoS in a game and are almost always the one's to FoS in a situation where one's vote is free.
Also adding this as it explains why what he did was scummy.
A weird response in response to me explaining why what he did was scummy. Don't know what to make of it, so I am putting it down as null.
I've learned that Meg makes very questionable sentence choices and gameplay choices. You're going to have to give me more than than that to convince me of Meg.
I've learned that Meg makes very questionable sentence choices and gameplay choices. You're going to have to give me more than than that to convince me of Meg.
Please don't purposefully misquote me, that does nothing to help the town.
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I've learned that Meg makes very questionable sentence choices and gameplay choices. You're going to have to give me more than than that to convince me of Meg.
There really isn't much more to add. He hasn't done a whole lot so far.
So that must mean I was scum in Avatar and Gotham, right?
I used all recent games(including ongoing in which you are dead) we have been in together to map out your posting frequency. In games that your confirmed to have been scum, your posting quantity was less than that of your town games. That pattern fit here.
Are you really going to Mafia-teabag me for having a social life for 3 days? I can show you a picture of my friend and me together from the other day. Hell, I can tell you all the stuff we did together. Just say the word and I will paint you a picture of a day in the life of Iso.
You have always been a busy person but it has never affected your game play before.
The purpose of this PbPA is to try to determine Iso's Town/Scum status.
Some of Iso's posts are just generic where he asks or responds to something, but which I don't see any significance to as far as identifying Iso's alignment. Things like post 173 asking Wessel why he thought AI was non-Town. It's not a bad post, but it doesn't really need to be analyzed either.
I'll provide the link so you can follow it and decide for yourself whether there's anything relevant there, but I'm just going to mark the post as "Generic post".
Post 45: First post. Asks who is translating for Wheat and says it won't be him.
Votes and then unvotes Seppel.
Declares Void likely Town.
Quite a lot there for the first post of the game.
Post 88: Waves hi to Tordeck and declares himself Town. That's a major scumtell at Px2, but given I don't recall anyone jumping on him for it, perhaps it's a null tell here.
Asks how Void knows Meg is Town.
Fishes for more about Seppel's role. Fishing is normally scummy, but with Seppel being claimed Self, fishing may be acceptable.
Votes Proph over a post where Proph declared that Doc's cannot self protect. A bit weak, but it is early Day 1 and weak is still better than nothing.
Calls out Audi for fishing against AI. Funny given he literally JUST got through fishing for info from Seppel and Audi was only fishing to see if AI had the same wincon as Seppel. Not complete hypocrisy, but skirting the edges pretty hard.
Affirms his belief that Void is Town. Apparently Void is a b/w read for him and he knows 100% that Void is Town.
Gets caught misquoting/misrepping by Wessel. Congratulates Wessel and passes it off as if it were inconsequential or intentional (can't tell which). Either way though, this is scummy as hell. He got caught misrepping and he brushed it off! He didn't say it was a mistake or even acknowledge that he had done anything wrong. He just brushed it off.
Post 171: Explanation of his Town read on Void. (Keep this in mind, he EXPANDED on his meta-case for Town Void here despite already having said it was a meta read earlier.)
Calls Meg's post where Meg FoS'd Audi scummy and votes for Meg. No other explanation provided.
Responds to Guardman with a lot of speculation and conjecture about Meg. I really hope THIS isn't the extra info for his case against Meg that Iso claims is hidden in his posts, because there's nothing with any substance here!
Continues to push the idea he can read Void like an open book.
Post 237: Says Gricky may be Scum and provides 4 post numbers to be examined.
Tells Arn to vote for Meg.
Brags about how awesome he is.
I dislike that he now has a suspect in Gricky where multiple posts have pinged his scumdar and yet he continues to push for the Meg lynch which is based on virtually nothing.
Post 270: Accuses Meg of strawmanning and blatantly misrepping the case against him.
I agree there's some blatant misrepping going on here, but Meg isn't the guilty party! This post seems to indicate that Iso believes he's made his case against Meg. I've gone through EVERY post of Iso's to this point in the game. There is no case against Meg beyond the FoS. That's it. That's the entire case.
PRE-POST EDIT - Post 270 is the post that contains the "explosive laugh" Iso later tries to retcon into several points against Meg.
I'm going to stop the PbPA at this point. I'll read through the rest of Iso's posts to make sure I'm not missing anything later, but this post indicates that whatever case Iso has has been made already. I'll also post anything significantly Townie or Scummy that I find, but I won't be commenting on every post of Iso's from this point on...
Post 333: Says he doesn't like that I prefer a confirmed non-Town over a weak Scum case. Accuses me of refusing to scumhunt, which is NOT AT ALL what I said. Literally posts "don't listen to this person's reads unless they align with your own".
Blatant misrep of what I said along with a promise to simply ignore me unless I'm saying what he already believes. Wow. Talk about scummy!
Post 337: Another blatant attempt to discredit me by calling me incompetent compared to the regulars here. I wouldn't have bothered to mention this if it didn't directly tie to the previous point.
It feels like Iso is trying to set himself up as infallible by discrediting everyone else that he can so that people will believe whatever he spews because, obvobvobv he is so much better than the rest of us.
Post 413:I was about to pass this post by, but it kept nagging at me. The more I reread it, the scummier it looks.
Tries to direct DH's use of his role. Claims he has a role that will interact with DH's. Claims he's the most likely NK target because of his awesome reads.
Wow, how much Scummy can you pack into a single, small post? Apparently, quite a lot!
Think about it. If Iso is Town, what benefit has Town gained from that post? None. But if Iso is Scum, there's a whole bunch of wifom and misdirecting he's just introduced.
Post 499: Buried in this monster of a quote tower is the following response to Gricky:
I found Megiddo's response laughable and classic scum behavior of deflect+vote low-hanging fruit a la Dragonheart with no actual analysis attached to his vote - simply a "massclaim and talking about Neutrals". Firstly, D_V was talking about the massclaim - not Dragonheart (unless I'm mistaken). Secondly, we were already discussing the Neutrals - and then he votes the completely easy target of Dragonheart, whose wagon is gaining momentum. In short, Megiddo's vote on to Dragonheart was opportunistic, weak, and deflection from his own wagon, which was gaining momentum. Just because you don't understand my explosive laugh in response to Megiddo's jump to DH doesn't mean it should be dismissed.
Well, at least I'll give him credit for FINALLY coming up with something more than just an FoS in one of the first posts of the game to use against Meg.
I think he's grossly misrepping what happened. But what I really love is the comment at the end. Apparently "HAHAHSKGLJEFWROIUSDKLFNVCX:JSF" is something that smarter people would have understood represented everything he just said. I must really be dumb then, because I certainly didn't get anything of the sort from it. In fact, in context it doesn't come across as anything of the sort. This looks an awful lot like an attempt to retcon his "explosive laugh" into something more now that he's had time to come up with extra reasoning for it.
He then says later in the same post:
It's certainly not the only point I've made on Megiddo. You have refused to acknowledge this. Why?
Up until this point the ONLY point he has made clear was the FoS (which is the one point Gricky mentioned and Iso says isn't the only one). There hasn't been any other points brought against Meg...
Oh, I'm sorry. That's right. We were all supposed to have interpreted his "explosive laugh" for the multiple points against Meg that he finally deigned to clarify for us earlier in THIS POST.
Another gem from later in the same wall-o-text post:
The other issue here is that now that I have substantiated my Megiddo read beyond "gut", Gricky is still harping on the fact that my initial reason was my gut reaction to Megiddo's post.
This is the scummiest thing in this post so far. I can only assume that he hoped everyone would forget that his clarification of his Meg case CAME IN THIS VERY POST! So how Gricky was supposed to have understood and stopped harping already is quite beyond my simpleton brain to understand.
Post 537: Holy crap! Are you serious? Anyone up for lynching blatant liars?
The FoS was absolutely the one and only point Iso presented against Meg all through the thread until he finally retconned in some additional reasons in less than 40 posts prior (499)!
That's it. There are plenty of neutral posts by Iso, but nothing that comes across as strong Townie. There are plenty of strong Scum points though.
Summary:
Iso starts with nothing but an FoS case against Meg. He pushes that case for all it's worth while refusing to expand on it at all. Finally, in post 499 he gives another reason and tries to claim he had that reason MUCH earlier and smart people would have seen it in his "explosive laugh".
He sprinkles in plenty of misrepping, insulting other's intelligence and even a case of outright lying (post 537).
It's not. Fortunately for me, unfortunately for you, that's NOT what Meg did!
My interpretation was more of...
Oh look, there's a wagon forming on me. What's the case against me?...
I FoS'd someone instead of voting them. Um, okay, and...
Nothing?
That's it?
THAT is the entire case against me?
Um, yeah. Whatever. Get back to me when you actually have a case because this is silly.
Also...
WHAT points about it? You only have 1!
Literally the ONLY point you've presented against Meg is that he posted an FoS instead of a Vote. That's it.
And you've repeatedly refused to present anything else.
I really don't blame Meg at all for ignoring you.
This one is thanked because it's basically a summary of some of my points against Iso. It also helps support Ahylis being town, as it indicates that he's taking the time to both read the wallposts me and Iso make and go back and do his own research.
Despite having just finished rereading much of the thread, I went back into the thread AGAIN. Your first accusation of Meg comes in post #171...
In the next 100+ posts there are several places where you call for Meg's head, but the posts above are all I could find detailing YOUR case against Meg.
If you have more, please Quote it!
I thanked this one for generally the same reasons I thanked the first one.
I also thanked another Ahl post not too long ago, for the same reasons. I'm thanking them because he's summarizing my long fightposts into smaller, bite-sized accurate posts explaining my points. Plus, he's keeping up with the fight, something I don't think scum would do.
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MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
Nope. You're accusing me of not substantiating my case. Burden of proof is on you to find it. I promise it's there. And as for why I haven't bothered looking for it to find it for you to show you yet, it's because one of my biggest peeves is repeating myself, ESPECIALLY in Mafia when my posts are all there for you to look at.
So wait a minute. You are accusing both Ahl and Me of not reading/looking through your posts? That's not even possible for me, I've quoted everything you have regarding Meg. Everything. So has Ahl now, and two out of two players claiming to look at your posts for evidence can't find any. So, the burden of proof is on YOU Iso. YOU have to prove that your case exists beyond your gut read in the beginning. If you can't then you've lied again. If you somehow can and we missed it somewhere, then you are just being difficult on purpose. We've both asked you, multiple times, if you have something more than what we've been posting so much about, you need to bring it up. Not doing so is completely anti-town, I don't much care for how you like repeating yourself.
This whole "Burden of Proof" thing feels weak, like stalling and avoiding the question all in one. We've both looked for your extended mysterious case multiple times, and in between all the childish arguments and vague responses you present to me, I can't find your extended Meg argument anywhere. Neither can Ahl.
(Fun fact: This is similar to how Gricky mentioned getting information out of me was like pulling teeth in Homestuck because I also refused to repeat myself, then. :D)
IIRC, you also refused to repeat yourself in Trisk. You play the same style of game as town and scum, so you using meta to try and free yourself here doesn't work well.
Got off of work an hour ago. Mafia Secretary stuff (since I'm way behind), sleep, then Gricky's post.
I'll check it later, I'm off to my FNM. I gotta build a modern deck and test it in 3 hours time. Gonna run my old Seismic Swans combo. Might check back later tonight, but don't hold your breath.
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MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
I'm sorry guys, but I can't follow these walls with a migraine.
I know you didn't ask me, but I have a nice summary of the Iso case in post #593, just 5 posts up. You don't have to expand the spoiler block for the whole case if you don't want it, I provided the summary outside the spoiler block.
And I stand by that point to, for as I explained it's a good point that stems from Meggido having a scummy sort of mind.
I'm willing to accept it as a point in a case. I don't see it as a super strong point, but I understand that you do. But do you really see it as so strong of a scumtell that by itself, without a single other piece of support, it is enough to convict someone of being Scum?
And yes, there are things that are that strong. PK once got caught in a lie concerning his role claim. That was enough to convict him pretty much by itself. A Cop Scum result from a dead Cop would be enough by itself to convict someone.
I have a favorite scumtell that I keep a look out for which has proved to be extremely good at pinpointing Scum whenever it appears. But by itself, I'd be hesitant to call for someone's head. Spotting it would certainly prompt me to investigate the person further and would likely lead to me voting for them after a review, but by itself is probably not enough. And that's for a scumtell which I have yet to see be wrong.
So when you want to hang Meg on a single scumtell, one which I don't even think is that strong to begin with, I have to wonder just what history you have with it to back up such a rabid adherence to it's infallibility. Do you really think it is that infallible of a scumtell?
I know you didn't ask me, but I have a nice summary of the Iso case in post #593, just 5 posts up. You don't have to expand the spoiler block for the whole case if you don't want it, I provided the summary outside the spoiler block.
Yeah, I was actually able to digest that. But I want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth.
I'm willing to accept it as a point in a case. I don't see it as a super strong point, but I understand that you do. But do you really see it as so strong of a scumtell that by itself, without a single other piece of support, it is enough to convict someone of being Scum?
Not infallible, but its strong enough that I'll lynch him for it.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
Placeholder post, are you posting in Norwegian and then having it translated to English?
No, but my phone autocorrects to words I use frequently in texting (which phones does), ergo my phoneposts will contain a few non-fitting norwegian words when I'm to tired to notice that I make the mistakes. (Case in point: "Påstår" should have been "Post").
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Damnation studios!
P9 - VT - Win
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
It is YOUR case, not mine. The burden is on YOU to ensure everyone knows what your case is.
I could understand your sentiment if you had already posted your case multiple times and others were simply refusing to look back a few posts to find it and just wanted the easy way out of having you repeat yourself, again. But that's NOT what is going on here. I HAVE gone back looking for your case, and I CANNOT FIND IT.
Given I've looked for it, cannot find it and you refuse to do anything other than insist it is hidden back there somewhere, I can only conclude that you don't want anyone to know what your case really is. That is scummy as hell!
I don't think I need to do any PbPA on you, the stuff you're giving right now is scummy enough to warrant a vote!
Townies generally want to be helpful. They generally WANT people to know why they think someone is Scum. Yes, they can get frustrated and fed up with having to repeat the same thing over and over, but when another player honestly tries and fails to understand and then asks for help in understanding, a good Townie WILL try to help.
Yet you continually refuse. Why? Are you just not a good Townie? Or are you not a Townie at all? Given my vote, I think it clear where I stand on that.
I found Megiddo's response laughable and classic scum behavior of deflect+vote low-hanging fruit a la Dragonheart with no actual analysis attached to his vote - simply a "massclaim and talking about Neutrals". Firstly, D_V was talking about the massclaim - not Dragonheart (unless I'm mistaken). Secondly, we were already discussing the Neutrals - and then he votes the completely easy target of Dragonheart, whose wagon is gaining momentum. In short, Megiddo's vote on to Dragonheart was opportunistic, weak, and deflection from his own wagon, which was gaining momentum. Just because you don't understand my explosive laugh in response to Megiddo's jump to DH doesn't mean it should be dismissed.
I used all recent games(including ongoing in which you are dead) we have been in together to map out your posting frequency. In games that your confirmed to have been scum, your posting quantity was less than that of your town games. That pattern fit here.
Seems anecdotal to me. Show me numbers, compared to when I died in the game, etc.
Quote from tordeck »
You have always been a busy person but it has never affected your game play before.
That was because I used to be able to post at work.
Votes Proph over a post where Proph declared that Doc's cannot self protect. A bit weak, but it is early Day 1 and weak is still better than nothing.
That's not why I voted Prophylaxis. And Ahlyis continues to misrep me!
Quote from Ahlyis »
Calls out Audi for fishing against AI. Funny given he literally JUST got through fishing for info from Seppel and Audi was only fishing to see if AI had the same wincon as Seppel. Not complete hypocrisy, but skirting the edges pretty hard.
Seppel was a claimed Neutral and I was trying to prevent potential "avoid killing these people because they may not be a threat" information from leaking out to the scum.
Quote from Ahylis »
Post 185: Promises to go after kpaca if kpaca is caught lying and points out we should lynch Seppel or kpaca if both are alive Day 3.
Again, that's not what I said.
Quote from Ahlyis »
I dislike that he now has a suspect in Gricky where multiple posts have pinged his scumdar and yet he continues to push for the Meg lynch which is based on virtually nothing.
Do you understand how to play Mafia, dude? Serious question.
Quote from Ahlyis »
I agree there's some blatant misrepping going on here, but Meg isn't the guilty party! This post seems to indicate that Iso believes he's made his case against Meg. I've gone through EVERY post of Iso's to this point in the game. There is no case against Meg beyond the FoS. That's it. That's the entire case.
PRE-POST EDIT - Post 270 is the post that contains the "explosive laugh" Iso later tries to retcon into several points against Meg.
I'm going to stop the PbPA at this point. I'll read through the rest of Iso's posts to make sure I'm not missing anything later, but this post indicates that whatever case Iso has has been made already. I'll also post anything significantly Townie or Scummy that I find, but I won't be commenting on every post of Iso's from this point on...
OH GEE LOOK AT THAT YOU FOUND EXACTLY WHAT I SAID I SAID. JFC. I'm done responding to you.
Oh, wait, one more:
Quote from Ahylis »
Post 537: Holy crap! Are you serious? Anyone up for lynching blatant liars?
And you have just contradicted yourself. Good day, sir.
This one is thanked because it's basically a summary of some of my points against Iso. It also helps support Ahylis being town, as it indicates that he's taking the time to both read the wallposts me and Iso make and go back and do his own research.
But obviously he didn't read my posts because it took him this long to find what I was talking about. After I found it in 2 minutes.
So wait a minute. You are accusing both Ahl and Me of not reading/looking through your posts? That's not even possible for me, I've quoted everything you have regarding Meg. Everything. So has Ahl now, and two out of two players claiming to look at your posts for evidence can't find any.
But Ahylis FINALLY found it. Just now. So you're not reading his posts, either.
In addition, that means that you've just admitted to misrepresenting my posts on purpose.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
So, the burden of proof is on YOU Iso. YOU have to prove that your case exists beyond your gut read in the beginning. If you can't then you've lied again. If you somehow can and we missed it somewhere, then you are just being difficult on purpose. We've both asked you, multiple times, if you have something more than what we've been posting so much about, you need to bring it up. Not doing so is completely anti-town, I don't much care for how you like repeating yourself.
READ.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
IIRC, you also refused to repeat yourself in Trisk. You play the same style of game as town and scum, so you using meta to try and free yourself here doesn't work well.
@Iso: do you really think Gricky is scum? If you do, explain your case without a wall of text.
Yes.
He is continually misrepping my posts, lying through his teeth, slipped that he knew Dragonheart was town before DH was modkilled, tied himself heavily to my first scumspect, and is pulling the exact same song and dance that he did in Homestuck against me when he was scum. I'm sure there's more, but that's the tl;dr version that I can recall at this point.
I'm willing to accept it as a point in a case. I don't see it as a super strong point, but I understand that you do. But do you really see it as so strong of a scumtell that by itself, without a single other piece of support, it is enough to convict someone of being Scum?
And yes, there are things that are that strong. PK once got caught in a lie concerning his role claim. That was enough to convict him pretty much by itself. A Cop Scum result from a dead Cop would be enough by itself to convict someone.
So you think lying and Cop results are the only thing strong enough to base a lynch on? Why do you continually ignore the fact that there is more evidence against Megiddo after you have acknowledged such?
Quote from Ahlyis »
I have a favorite scumtell that I keep a look out for which has proved to be extremely good at pinpointing Scum whenever it appears. But by itself, I'd be hesitant to call for someone's head. Spotting it would certainly prompt me to investigate the person further and would likely lead to me voting for them after a review, but by itself is probably not enough. And that's for a scumtell which I have yet to see be wrong.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I love my job. It helps me take a break from mafia and clear my head, thinking about the happenings in the game for much longer than I would if I could just post my response. The reason I bring this up is because after thinking about some of his points, I think Iso may be flailing a bit. I'll explain throughout.
Can't wait to see!
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Am I to understand that your case on me is as goes: Megcase/Grickydefense + meta call = Grickyscum? Because you really can't apply the Megcase until you know Meg's alignment. Unless, that is, you know Meg's scum and you are trying to set me up instead of me setting you up like in the meta call you are suddenly clinging to.
Nope. Try reading again. Maybe you'll see it this time.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but you are still Vote Mongering, now for an even weaker case.
And? And weaker by whose standards?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
And you have just contradicted yourself. Remember earlier when I said you were doing nothing but saying "lynch please" about the meg case? Well, your response was "Liar, I am not!". With this "And?" point, which I assume is supposed to mean "So what if I am Vote Mongering?", you are admitting that you are Vote Mongering and that you calling me a liar is nothing more than an ad hom attack. You contradict yourself, Sir!
Wrong! Again! Just because I was votemongering doesn't mean that's ALL I was doing. As you've seen, I've presented many pieces of evidence against you.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Moreover, it's also scummy too. Vote Mongering when you have worked your ass off on a case, laying out multiple reasons why a person is scummy, is perfectly fine. But as we've seen, you only have one point of analysis on Meg before you skip straight to mongering. You don't even care to elaborate when someone asks you to clarify your point, you just tell them to look harder. This is partly why Aud looks as bad as he does, because you don't reveal anything to him and suddenly he gets it and jumps aboard the Megtrain. If you really believe Meg's scum, why wouldn't you explain yourself more? I mean, tell them to do their own work sure, but also expand your viewpoint too, let people know what you are thinking and why you are so sure of yourself. Trust me, if Aud is going to mindlessly barn anyway, someone is still going to call him on it whether you explain yourself or not. I just see no townie reasons for you to not post your thoughts. Anyway, your case was not credibly enough to go vote hunting as much as you did, or even at all. That's why your mongering is terribad.
I'm not going to acknowledge anything else saying I've only presented one point because I've certainly done more than that.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
1. Obviously, it's based on feelings you get, not fact, regardless of how often you use feelings and how accurate they may or may not be.
Prove it.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I would like to remind you that permanently playing a "gut read" game in every game is a good way to simplify your scum games. So the fact that you pinned void as scum in another game doesn't mean you have free reign to get away with it in every game. At least, in that game, you kept following up with Void's responses, giving other reasons that were scummy and legit. If you expect to catch scum based on the gut from one post in every game you play, you are seriously delusional. I happen to think that you are just smart and choose the easiest way to play the same style of game as scum and town, just going with gut. It's what you did in Trisk, as scum. It's what you did in Homestuck as town. It's what you are doing here. The defense of "I did this as town once and totally succeeded" doesn't work.
It's succeeded more than once and the fact that you refuse to acknowledge this is telling. I'm not strictly saying "my case is gut", which you are seeming to imply it is. I have presented many points against the offending parties and you are attempting to discredit me but the point is that if you were actually reading my posts (and I mean READING, not just LOOKING AT) like you claim, then you wouldn't still be attempting to present this as fact.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Alright, would you care to define the phrases "one thing" and "something else". You are calling it a strawman, but I'm not seeing it, so if you are right, you should be able to tell me what the argument actually is and what Meg is strawmanning it to be. Also, I'm not arguing that it's {not} a strawman, I'm saying the strawman is justifiable.
I have done this. Read. My. Posts. And how is strawmanning a town action in any way?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Then why didn't you say that? Seriously, when you have analysis like this, say it instead of a bunch of jarbled all-caps letters that I'm supposed to assume is an intelligent response. I'm not your interpreter, although reading you would be much easier if I were apparently.
Because I expected people in this game to know how to read into posts - after all, it's a Specialty. Also, please explain that last sentence.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Ok, I said it in my precursor to my response, and I'll say it again, my defense here isn't so much about any reads I have on Meg, it's about not liking the case and the momentum it gained. I saw what it was based on, saw that Aud had a terrible barn vote, which got me paying attention, saw that Kpaca, Seppel and AI, Sep's buddy, had hopped on the wagon, something sketchy, and then saw that your reasoning was incredibly shallow. It was a pretty strong wagon lead by a singular, malnourished donkey. So, I've been attacking the wagoner's and their motives for being on the wagon. So far, I don't like what I see.
So what is your read on Meg and why? What do you define a strong case as? Why can't what we've presented be a reasonable case? (Ignoring the part about 1 point because, again, untrue.)
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I haven't seen any other points that aren't tied to the gut call you made in the first place. Why don't you quote them and bring the other points to our attention if what you are saying is true. Cause I posted every post of yours that had something Meg related in it.
Then you should have seen it. And now you definitely have.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Are you joking here? First, I've argued countless times how my alignment doesn't affect the legitimacy of the arguments I make, just how I use them. I know I'm referencing a scum game where I made these points, but it's because I argued there (postgame) and here that the argument was a valid one.
"The argument I made as scum still holds water, even though I was trying to get you mislynched when I made it!"
ARE YOU LISTENING TO YOURSELF? Motive is everything.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Gut is inherently scummy. Instead of focusing on the general meta argument like you are doing, why don't you go into detail? That fact that you are doing nothing but screaming "META!" as your defense doesn't do anything for you, you need to explain how the use of the argument is actually scummy. I see nothing wrong with it, other than I was using that line of logic to trap you on D3 after you successfully pushed through the scum-void lynch.
I explained it quite thoroughly in Homestuck. I quoted all of the nice little segments for your convenience here. Go on, read it. I'll wait.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Moreover, you attack me for not attacking the other wagoners? But I have. I've written several walls-o-text on how Aud is scummy and pointed out the the other members of the wagon were claimed neutral, something I don't wish to waste time on at the moment.
Ah, but Aud is also attacking you. So, OMGUS.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I've even pointed out that Seppel could be lying, as per my recruitment theory, and that his and AI's activity on the wagon is lamentable as well.
Here's an idea: Why don't you do a PBPA on AI instead of just saying "I don't like the fact that he was on the Megiddo wagon"?
Do you really think that half or more of the scumteam would pile on to the same Day 1 wagon? Do you understand how preposterous it is that you are proposing this?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I have attacked other people sir. I made generally the same arguments when Aud brought this up too, and called it scummy for him as well. Now you are added to that list.
You are attacking all of the low-hanging fruit in addition to myself.
Seppel, claimed Neutral.
Audinho, who, from what I've seen, has never been able to defend himself very well.
AI, who you are claiming is recruitable into the mafia through Seppel, who you continue to fearmonger about.
So again, why are you sosure that Megiddo is town?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Talk to me about this when you can point me to why, SUFFICIENTLY, you think Megiddo is scum. Because in all this banter, the only person who's tried to explain your vote reasoning is me. You haven't bothered, I'm still just assuming that I got your reasoning right.
I did. Now talk to me.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Want my reasoning? Here it is. You're read is wrong because 1. It strawman's all of Meg's other posts, because you only refer to one and have completely ignore the others, save for one post Meg makes in defense where your arguments are tied back to the same original post.
Okay, so, this has already been proven false.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
2. Your use of Vote Mongering is not substantiated and does not match the level of effort you have actually put into the case.
And this has already been proven false.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
3. You continually use the word "case" and seem to try and make your analysis seem broader than it is, all while never explaining the other points you claim to have and being overly obtuse about your reasoning in the first place.
And this has already been proven false.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
4. Your tie into me from the Meg case dilutes the reasoning even further, and subsequent ties based off of me onto other players are extremely diluted by extension. You're reasoning for me being scum is "Defended Meg, who I think is scum" so it's supposedly guilt by association to a player that we don't know the alignment of, and then your Tordeck and Archaic attacks based off of me is "agreed with Gricky, who defended Meg, who I think is scum". Did you ever see the episode of Futurama "My Three Sons" where fry drinks a planet's emperor and has to recite a very lengthy diatribe of all the former kings drinking each other? Your reasoning is beginning to look like that Diatribe.
And this has already been proven false.
So what do you have?
Nothing.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Now you are right, it is exactly the same argument, and I haven't denied that. What I have denied is that it makes me scum in any way.
Then you'll have to pardon me for not accepting that at face value.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
The argument doesn't suddenly become wrong and unusable because I flipped scum.
The argument is, and has always been, bad. This is proven simply by the facts that A. my CASE IS NOT CONTINGENT ON MY GUT READ, and B. I have flipped town many, MANY times while relying on my gut. The fact that you are CONTINUING TO ARGUE THIS baffles me.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Scum can have logic too, you know, and the argument held it's ground.
No. It was an awful argument in Homestuck and it's exactly why you got lynched. You were using it to setup mislynches and that's exactly what you're doing here.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
On top of that, you keep forgetting that this isn't my only argument here, I gave a pretty good list of a few of the arguments above. If I were solely relying on the gut argument from Homestuck, I would put more stock into this point of yours, but the fact is there are other damning things about your play.
You are contradicting yourself. Yet again. And being a hypocrite. JFC.
Also, do you understand what a strawman is?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Stop here.
Now, I'm seeing a running theme in your big post so far, and that's that you are relying on this meta argument to really get you out of here and completely void everything I say. You are really putting a lot of stock into the Meta argument, like it's your last hope and prayer, one of the things that makes me think you are flailing. Also, your caps preference here is unlike anything I've seen from you before. I've seen you joke in caps, but I've never seen you seriously use caps in a back and forth debate. Not that you haven't, just saying I've never seen it from you and it feels flaily.
Not really. I've presented mindset analysis on you explaining why your case is bunk and simply choose to reference the instance that you and I have shared where this happened and you were scum. I use caps when people aren't reading my posts because IT MAKES THE WORDS BIGGER AND EASIER TO SEE. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's flailing, so this is, once again, an incredibly weak point from you.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
The argument wasn't scummy, the way I used it was. This meta argument does nothing to affect the legitimacy of the argument and doesn't make me scum for using it.
The argument was bad, still is, and you're still using it in a scummy way. End of story. And you're scum for other reasons as well, but you seem to conveniently ignore that.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Where have you substantiated your read further than gut? Also, how does my analysis that "Gut is scummy" from the last game not hold any water? It's an easy in and out of a wagon and allows scum to put the cruise control on a game, and also allows them to Vote Monger. If everyone ran around using gut as their reasoning, mafia would be a crapshoot rather than the calculating procedure we have now.
READ. And you're once again ignoring the fact that my gut is not the only thing I have presented. You KEEP CONTRADICTING YOURSELF and I find it completely unbelievable that more people haven't realized you're scum for it.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
For a newer player in a speciality, I can see that he's doing his best to try and keep up, posting a few multi-responses to the town, which I know is something scum are capable of, but for a newer player it's a sign of towniness. He's not getting flustered over pressure of your crap case, something which a newer player might easily get flustered by esp. in a specialty. Also, your crap case you are trying to push makes me think he's town too.
HE'S NOT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGING MY CASE.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Behavioral and motive analysis? Ok, sure. Remember Trisk? You were the first person to really get things started by calling out Vitek from that gambit. You have a history of being cavalier about your scum play, so as far as behavior goes, its believable to think you would try and start a wagon out of thin air and push hard for it as scum. Conviction sells and I think you know this. Motive analysis? All you needed was a slip, the fact that you are scum and want to win by subverting the town is enough motive. You saw your in on a questionable post by Meg and made your move. Your experience tells you to stick with your guns, once again conviction sells. You get a bit of support for your efforts and it's done deal, you are the scumhero D1 for getting the first mislynch of the game. I think your motives are just that you get a kick out of hiding in plane sight and you thought you had the opportunity to do so.
Really? Have you read ANY of my scum games except Triskelion? Basically, what you've just presented against me is, "I think you might do this as scum." That's ALL you just said. Try again.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
What? Read my quote there again bro, cause I think you are misreading it based on your bolds. You have bolded "Gut is mostly a scumtool" and "my Gut analysis", but "my Gut analysis" is referring to my analysis of why Gut is scummy, not analysis that's based on my gut.
That is not what you said.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Also, there's more caps words. Flail evidence. Flevidence.
GUYS HEY I'M FLAILING LOOK AT ME no.
Also, you have completely avoided responding to the quote that you addressed this towards. Good job.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
How do you get people lynched? By declaring your case and letting people see for themselves. If they think there's something there, they'll join you. You can post things like "still think player x is scum", but whoring your vote around to specific people and asking "why don't you vote player x?" is something only reserved when you've actually caught scum and are looking to get some reactions to catch future scum, like when you cop a scum but haven't revealed it to the town, you want to ask players to see what their reaction would be. Since there's a 99.9% chance that didn't happen in a no N0 game, then I have a problem with your Mongering.
Except I've caught scum. And I did ask people why they weren't voting for him, and you called it votemongering. Or did you forget that so soon?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Um, flustered much? I am arguing in the quote that you must be skimming my posts. You are arguing in your response that you always skim those that you think are town or will get to later. But you think I'm scum and you're on me now.
Yes, ergo, I must be reading your posts. You, however, are not reading mine.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Yes, I have, you just really seem to like saying "No you haven't" and trying to make it a proper defense. I've thoroughly explained why your case and your actions surrounding it are scummy. I've also explained why Meg is town. You may not like the answers, but that doesn't mean I didn't give them.
No you haven't. There's nothing more I can say on that except quote every post you've made and point out all the different ways that you HAVEN'T substantiated (which I'm pretty much doing, anyway).
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Granted he's not posting much, but incredibly good lynch candidate is a stretch. I believe he would be worth more pressure, but I'm not comfortable labling him a lynch just yet, there are better options to explore if I had to choose a lynch right now. Also, stop calling things a case when it's a single point in one of your posts. That's not a case. Finally, what do you mean pretending to tunnel me? Isn't tunneling a bad thing, so if I'm not tunneling, then I'm doing good right? I don't get this at all.
Do you want me to keep responding to your posts? If so, start reading mine.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
1. Covered several times, you are trying to paint this meta argument as White and Black, but there is a grey area that you just refuse to see, because it's your only real defense against any of the points I make. You must really be hoping this completely discredits me, because you repeat it more than anything.
No. There is no grey. I've explained why this makes you scum. You're not acknowledging it. I don't need to defend myself beyond what I'm doing - your case is terrible.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
2. You are forcing the issue. The fact that I disagree with this case and the fact that I think Meg is town are two totally independent thought processes. You are clearly tunneling with "He disagrees with my scumread! He must be scum too then!".
No. I've illustrated my points as to why you're scum - the fact that you are disagreeing with my read on Meg is just another point against you. You are misrepresenting my argument. All you have done so far is lie, misrep, strawman, and rehash arguments you've used as scum.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
3. I don't think I'm lying. Hell, your list actually makes me a better candidate for you trying to get rid of me than my own argument did. I'm a dissenter and a veteran, and since there aren't any PR's revealed so far, you could easily throw that consideration out the window, or assume that I have a power role, in which case you would get a three-for-one on your list. You very clearly have possible scummy motivations for dropping Meg and going after me on weaksauce.
What's my motivation for going after weaker players than getting rid of a threat in a veteran? And "because you think you can" isn't a valid reason, because you don't know a damn thing about what I think aside from what I've expressed here.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
4. Now you are. Took long enough after all the hate you've thrown my way. Also, DIAF? That's not very nice. It is a sign of flail though.
No, it's a sign of aggravated.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Yeah, I caught that, you went straight from "DH must hang" to "DH you should target me with that ability!". Nothing scummy about that at all. Not the fact that you didn't question the ability after being in a game with a scum-reviver in Avatar. Not the fact that you were practically begging to be targeted.
If I wanted DH to hang instead of one of my other scumspects, I would have voted for him. As it was, I didn't feel the case on DH was very strong and I felt the momentum shifted away from a scum player. (Speaking of, thanks, you reminded me that I wanted to look at the players who were voting Meg and switched to DH/led the charge against DH compared to my scum reads.) Why would I question the ability? Do you understand motive interpretation at all? (This post reeks like fish, but I'm going to answer it anyway.) Simply put, if I put myself forward as an option for DH's ability target, then I could push my reads from the previous Day (in conjunction with its use with my role) and if DH didn't target me, then obviously he would have been lying and since that ability would be no good on scum (and he seemed to think it was a weak ability for town) he would have been caught scum and lynched - especially since I think I'm in serious danger of being Nightkilled.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Well then sir, correct me. I feel like I've kept up pretty well, and I'll read your posts again for clarity's sake, but why don't you give me your version of your Tordeck suspicion now, so I have something to compare to.
I have.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Wrong. I think you are a pretty good vig target. Also, as dead scum coming back, even though people would ignore your posts for the sake of WIFOM, you can still be very very disruptive to the process. You could also coach your buddies, kinda like psuedo daytalk. You could point out who you think the PR's are, although thinking about that, you would be confirming town, so nevermind that would be a silly play as scum. Still though, there are plenty of things you could do as revived scum, I think you are looking at this too narrowly and trying to make an argument out of it.
No, because anything I said could potentially lead back to my scumbuddies, could be perceived as WIFOM, and would generally be ignored. There is no way that with some players of the caliber that they are in this game, I would be acknowledged. My best play as scum in that situation would be to simply not speak.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Glad you asked actually. Seppel makes more sense because if my recruiting theory is correct and Seppel is scum, it likely makes AI scum too, netting us 2 scum for the price of 1. Aud is clearly scummy, and if the Seppel situation didn't exist, I would say shoot him. If we can take care of Seppel though, and it turns out he's scum, the situation becomes way more advantageous for the town.
I would like to thank you for assuaging any suspicion I may have had of Seppel being scum at this point.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
You get DH's claim and don't question it at all, asking to be targeted in fact. I'm basing my attack off of the fact that you totally believe DH and also that I think you are scum who should be killed today/tonight. So, when you attack me for slipping that I know DH is town, and my 'slip' is in the sarcasm where I copy/paste your logic, you really end up calling your own logic a slip. Also the fact that you attacked me for supposedly know DH was town, and then watching him flip town, looks like a setup.
See my above rationale for this. Also, I like your evasive defense of "oh it was just sarcasm". I don't think anybody took it as that - and the fact that you choose to defend it in that matter is particularly damning.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Are you playing the sympathy card here? "Most of the players in this game don't have enough respect for my analysis"? WTF?
No, I'm trying to do my faction a favor.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Also, why didn't you go back to Meg when the DH case died? I mean, it did die, your excuse for not going Meg was the DH distraction, and since most of your reads on me and a few other players are based in the Meg case, it would make much more sense to switch back there. This is where I think the "attack dissenters" argument comes into play.
Because you pretty much begged me to vote for you. I wouldn't turn down a personal request if I felt it was beneficial enough for me to pursue it.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
1. Yes.
Then use the phrase correctly.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
2. I don't have to die to know you are wrong.
No, but you do so everyone else knows I'm right.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
3. Semantics.
People who argue semantics with me are usually scum. Look at Flame Warriors. You just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I minored in English with a major in communications. Tell me prof. Iso, what did I miss? I think I'm doing a lot of things right here.
* Iso opens arms
How about everything I've presented in this post? That's a start.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Dude, that's really all it takes for it to be possible. Just one time. This isn't like the lottery, and even if it were, there are tons of people who end up with multiple jackpots in their lifetime.
"When we filled the balloon with a lot of air once, it popped, therefore the fact that if we don't put too much air into a balloon under ideal circumstances for it to retain its shape is completely invalid now."
That's what you just said.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Best play according to the town. It's not about stepping on toes, you are both tied for most scummy so far in the game, so I have no preference which one of you we lynch, as long as it's one of you. Oh, and I'm not looking for approval like a Mongerer, people had already started posting their suspicion of Aud on their own.
Riiight. Because "put your vote on this person" is obviously seeking approval instead of telling the person to put their vote on that person. And damn, I'm not the scummiest person alive yet? I'll have to try harder.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Whoa. Flail much? I've already explained how you said you didn't want to go on with Meg because the town was distracted by DH, why not go back to it after the DH died down. You didn't though, you went to me, mostly because I was the loudest on calling you out, maybe the only one, but you brought the baggage of the Meg wagon with you as evidence of my scuminess, which makes no sense. Point is, you had the opportunity to go back to Meg and didn't, even if you are still thinking mostly along the same lines, I still say you are stepping away.
Misrep misrep misrep misrep MISREP.
Anyway, you are presenting a situation where "hey Iso if you don't vote for me you're scum" and "hey Iso if you don't vote for Megiddo you're scum". Can you explain how that makes sense from a town perspective?
Also, remind me again how caps = flailing instead of calling out your misrepresentation with frustration since you refuse to read my posts?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I do mean Modkill and I don't think they have Daytalk. My argument depends on the fact that they don't have Daytalk, so I have to make an exception for the rare case that they DO have Daytalk, which is what I did there.
Okay.
So, this is a Specialty.
Dragonheart (now confirmed town) seemed to think that this was a high-powered game.
So why don't you think scum have Daytalk?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I take it this has changed, or are you just going to switch it to "You must be scum because you knew he was town!"?
I'm not switching it. You slipped that you knew DH was town and then you called him scum. You are presenting contradictory reads. You keep slipping.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Are you even paying attention to your own posts? You did this already. I think I remember reading somewhere how this can be evidence of inattentive scum.
ROFL.
The votes were reset after the modkill.
And I'm inattentive scum? Foot in mouth, much?
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
In that game, that was my only attack on you, in this game I've got multiple arguments to support my attack on you.
You haven't presented a single non-meta reason that isn't a misrep, lie, or strawman.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
In that game, I was scum setting you up for D3, in this game I'm outright attacking you on D1.
And you're attempting to setup more mislynches based on my flip as town. I'm not sure what's so difficult to grasp about my push on you.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
In that game, You eventually explained the specifics of your gut read, the hows and whys. In this game, you haven't and only I've analyzed it.
Yes I have.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
I'd like to leave this quotewall by asking you kindly to read it through. I feel like I made some good points, and I've been typing since 3:30, so I really don't want my effort to be wasted. If you read just one wallpost this year, make it this Gricky wallpost! For more reasons than one too...
Appeal to sympathy.
Quote from GrickyTimmick »
Also, I apologize in advance. I've always wanted to write a novel. I think I could one day, this gives me hope.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So. For those who don't like quote walls, another point against Gricky:
Gricky slipped that he knew DH was town, and then called him scum with me shortly thereafter, then presented a theory that would require DH to be town while calling him scum at the same time.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso - If I have missed something directed to me, then point it out. Otherwise I think I've made my case on you well enough. Get lynched. Love ya, buh bye.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
23 other players wanting to make cases, basically. As I said, usually when I spot something it's allready been covered, and when it's not it's because it's not something to make a case out of and I'm a laughing stock.
What makes something that hasn't been covered something that can't be questioned?
So, Void, why did you comment that Seppel was correct in calling out Dragonheart as scum halfway through your post only to later note the modkill (and subsequent revelation that DH was town)?
Additionally, you started off saying that you were leaning town on GrickyTimmick, so I'd like to know how he became vote-worthy after one comment from Iso that doesn't actually prove anything.
Lastly, why did you make a point to declare multiple times that your suspicions of Infinis are less prominent than those of your other suspects?
I used all recent games(including ongoing in which you are dead) we have been in together to map out your posting frequency. In games that your confirmed to have been scum, your posting quantity was less than that of your town games. That pattern fit here.
You have always been a busy person but it has never affected your game play before.
Is your "solid" case on Iso seriously just pure post frequency?
So. For those who don't like quote walls, another point against Gricky:
Gricky slipped that he knew DH was town, and then called him scum with me shortly thereafter, then presented a theory that would require DH to be town while calling him scum at the same time.
Zajnet has mentioned his inability to keep up. If I can find a replacment before his return, I will replace him, without prejudice.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
1. If I flip scum, NO ONE IS GOING TO LISTEN TO ME.
2. Unless I get Vigged (unlikely at this point), I wouldn't be dying toNight short of an SK or Hitman kind of role. And given that we already have 2 claimed Neutrals, that is equally unlikely.
3. You just slipped that you know Dragonheart is town.
Who is GT's vote currently on? If it's on me and he just posted a premise requiring me to be town, then I'm willing to move my vote. You don't vote for someone then then assume they are town without taking your vote off. (I'm assuming he is voting for me, but there hasn't been a vote count in a while, so I'm not certain.)
If I wasn't town, my ability wouldn't make sense. If he believes my ability, he believes I'm town. In addition, that premise requires that you be scum who somehow have something to gain from an extra day of talking. (Which as we just discussed earlier, is usually bad for the scum.) Beyond that, you would also have to get night killed, which tends to imply that he thinks you are town.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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I did not remember correctly. I've gone over Megiddos posts and theres nothing there like what I remembered. Since Void has been away, it's not in his posts either, and since this was highly tied to Ghost Story it means whoever said it didn't have the backstory, ie probably didn't do it on purpose.
It's been a while since Megiddo has provided anything other than translations of Wheatposts and fluff. Hasn't been adding anything to the thread since his wagon was at it's peak (give or take). I'll go read over Ahlyis PBPA again and see if I agree with it.
Terrible long catch-up post from Void, going in with one opinion and coming out with another. Seems very voidy. Town points.
Zajnet provided a good reason for not posting, back to null.
Tordeck feels very, very townie.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
First of all, I don't agree with half of your pbpa. You go into the PBPA looking for a smiley-case on Megs, and analyses half of his posts with this in mind. Then you realize the case isn't even on Megs (not paying attention much?), but you still leave it in. The boss is coming, look busy.
Your reason for voting here: Iso looked bad. No more, no less. I can understand that you are implying that Isos case on Megs was bad, ergo Iso is scum. I can understand that, but:
Why did you make a pbpa of Megiddo when Iso was the one you were suspecting? Why didn't you make it of Iso?
I also have the feeling that you are trying to buddy me around theese posts, but I might be confusing that with you just beeing helpful.
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
Nope. You're accusing me of not substantiating my case. Burden of proof is on you to find it. I promise it's there. And as for why I haven't bothered looking for it to find it for you to show you yet, it's because one of my biggest peeves is repeating myself, ESPECIALLY in Mafia when my posts are all there for you to look at.
(Fun fact: This is similar to how Gricky mentioned getting information out of me was like pulling teeth in Homestuck because I also refused to repeat myself, then. :D)
And why is that?
He has. I reviewed it.
When and why did you start liking Megiddo as scum? I have not seen you express this yet - on the contrary, your initial read of him was town.
Why the sudden 180 on DH? Why do you think Gricky is scum?
So that must mean I was scum in Avatar
and Gotham, right?Are you really going to Mafia-teabag me for having a social life for 3 days? I can show you a picture of my friend and me together from the other day. Hell, I can tell you all the stuff we did together. Just say the word and I will paint you a picture of a day in the life of Iso.
What about Proph don't you like?
Got off of work an hour ago. Mafia Secretary stuff (since I'm way behind), sleep, then Gricky's post.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
LOL WHAT
Unvote, vote Void.
One more thing before sleep:
@Mod: I asked you a question via PM a couple of days ago. Please answer it. Thank you.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I thought about changing parts of it, but felt it was better to leave it as it occurred. Although I went in thinking the smiley case was against Meg, I still analysed each post individually and reported anything I saw, whether it was smiley related or not.
I agree that my Iso vote needs more support. I'll do a PbPA of Iso if I have to, but was hoping you might do it for me since I'd already spent a ton of time doing the PbPA on Meg. And before anyone says it, I wasn't planning to simply barn whatever you found, but would have used it as a quick guide to finding all of Iso's posts for my own analysis.
I didn't go in suspecting Iso over Meg. I didn't know which of them, if either, I was going to find scummy. But the case was against Meg, so I analyzed Meg's posts to see what, if anything, there was to the case. When I found nothing there, I started looking at who was pushing the phantom case... Iso.
I'll be helpful any time I can, but suggesting the PbPA served 2 purposes. It would help you find a way to post your own thoughts, regardless of what others had already posted, and it would compile Iso's posts into one convenient location for me.
It is YOUR case, not mine. The burden is on YOU to ensure everyone knows what your case is.
I could understand your sentiment if you had already posted your case multiple times and others were simply refusing to look back a few posts to find it and just wanted the easy way out of having you repeat yourself, again. But that's NOT what is going on here. I HAVE gone back looking for your case, and I CANNOT FIND IT.
Given I've looked for it, cannot find it and you refuse to do anything other than insist it is hidden back there somewhere, I can only conclude that you don't want anyone to know what your case really is. That is scummy as hell!
I don't think I need to do any PbPA on you, the stuff you're giving right now is scummy enough to warrant a vote!
Townies generally want to be helpful. They generally WANT people to know why they think someone is Scum. Yes, they can get frustrated and fed up with having to repeat the same thing over and over, but when another player honestly tries and fails to understand and then asks for help in understanding, a good Townie WILL try to help.
Yet you continually refuse. Why? Are you just not a good Townie? Or are you not a Townie at all? Given my vote, I think it clear where I stand on that.
A history of anti-Town behavior isn't going to win you any Townie points in my book!
@Ahlyis: Iso is always right and nothing you say to him will change that.
Maybe not, but enough of us voting him will at least get rid of an anti-Town player. I think it'll actually get rid of Scum as well.
Great, now vote Void.
But I want to lynch Meg.
Okay, but can YOU give us a case against Meg? Or is it nothing more than barning Iso and his single point case?
Of course I already did.
Also adding this as it explains why what he did was scummy.
You're not trying to read anyone.
A weird response in response to me explaining why what he did was scummy. Don't know what to make of it, so I am putting it down as null.
Ok.
I've learned that Meg makes very questionable sentence choices and gameplay choices. You're going to have to give me more than than that to convince me of Meg.
Please don't purposefully misquote me, that does nothing to help the town.
There really isn't much more to add. He hasn't done a whole lot so far.
God, why do I feel a repeat of Cyberpunk coming?
I used all recent games(including ongoing in which you are dead) we have been in together to map out your posting frequency. In games that your confirmed to have been scum, your posting quantity was less than that of your town games. That pattern fit here.
You have always been a busy person but it has never affected your game play before.
His last post.
Ditto the question.
All posts I and Void thanked were for OoG reasons.
The Family
Ok.
Some of Iso's posts are just generic where he asks or responds to something, but which I don't see any significance to as far as identifying Iso's alignment. Things like post 173 asking Wessel why he thought AI was non-Town. It's not a bad post, but it doesn't really need to be analyzed either.
I'll provide the link so you can follow it and decide for yourself whether there's anything relevant there, but I'm just going to mark the post as "Generic post".
Post 45: First post. Asks who is translating for Wheat and says it won't be him.
Votes and then unvotes Seppel.
Declares Void likely Town.
Quite a lot there for the first post of the game.
Post 88: Waves hi to Tordeck and declares himself Town. That's a major scumtell at Px2, but given I don't recall anyone jumping on him for it, perhaps it's a null tell here.
Asks how Void knows Meg is Town.
Fishes for more about Seppel's role. Fishing is normally scummy, but with Seppel being claimed Self, fishing may be acceptable.
Votes Proph over a post where Proph declared that Doc's cannot self protect. A bit weak, but it is early Day 1 and weak is still better than nothing.
Calls out Audi for fishing against AI. Funny given he literally JUST got through fishing for info from Seppel and Audi was only fishing to see if AI had the same wincon as Seppel. Not complete hypocrisy, but skirting the edges pretty hard.
Affirms his belief that Void is Town. Apparently Void is a b/w read for him and he knows 100% that Void is Town.
Gets caught misquoting/misrepping by Wessel. Congratulates Wessel and passes it off as if it were inconsequential or intentional (can't tell which). Either way though, this is scummy as hell. He got caught misrepping and he brushed it off! He didn't say it was a mistake or even acknowledge that he had done anything wrong. He just brushed it off.
Post 171: Explanation of his Town read on Void. (Keep this in mind, he EXPANDED on his meta-case for Town Void here despite already having said it was a meta read earlier.)
Calls Meg's post where Meg FoS'd Audi scummy and votes for Meg. No other explanation provided.
Responds to Guardman with a lot of speculation and conjecture about Meg. I really hope THIS isn't the extra info for his case against Meg that Iso claims is hidden in his posts, because there's nothing with any substance here!
Continues to push the idea he can read Void like an open book.
Post 173: Generic post.
Post 175: Generic post.
Post 180: Asks why I don't vote for Meg at this point.
Post 185: Promises to go after kpaca if kpaca is caught lying and points out we should lynch Seppel or kpaca if both are alive Day 3.
Tells Audi to look at the single post of Meg's for the reasons why Meg is Scum. Provides no other reasoning.
Post 188: Generic post.
Post 237: Says Gricky may be Scum and provides 4 post numbers to be examined.
Tells Arn to vote for Meg.
Brags about how awesome he is.
I dislike that he now has a suspect in Gricky where multiple posts have pinged his scumdar and yet he continues to push for the Meg lynch which is based on virtually nothing.
Post 240: Generic post.
Post 270: Accuses Meg of strawmanning and blatantly misrepping the case against him.
I agree there's some blatant misrepping going on here, but Meg isn't the guilty party! This post seems to indicate that Iso believes he's made his case against Meg. I've gone through EVERY post of Iso's to this point in the game. There is no case against Meg beyond the FoS. That's it. That's the entire case.
PRE-POST EDIT - Post 270 is the post that contains the "explosive laugh" Iso later tries to retcon into several points against Meg.
I'm going to stop the PbPA at this point. I'll read through the rest of Iso's posts to make sure I'm not missing anything later, but this post indicates that whatever case Iso has has been made already. I'll also post anything significantly Townie or Scummy that I find, but I won't be commenting on every post of Iso's from this point on...
Post 333: Says he doesn't like that I prefer a confirmed non-Town over a weak Scum case. Accuses me of refusing to scumhunt, which is NOT AT ALL what I said. Literally posts "don't listen to this person's reads unless they align with your own".
Blatant misrep of what I said along with a promise to simply ignore me unless I'm saying what he already believes. Wow. Talk about scummy!
Post 337: Another blatant attempt to discredit me by calling me incompetent compared to the regulars here. I wouldn't have bothered to mention this if it didn't directly tie to the previous point.
It feels like Iso is trying to set himself up as infallible by discrediting everyone else that he can so that people will believe whatever he spews because, obvobvobv he is so much better than the rest of us.
Post 413:I was about to pass this post by, but it kept nagging at me. The more I reread it, the scummier it looks.
Tries to direct DH's use of his role. Claims he has a role that will interact with DH's. Claims he's the most likely NK target because of his awesome reads.
Wow, how much Scummy can you pack into a single, small post? Apparently, quite a lot!
Think about it. If Iso is Town, what benefit has Town gained from that post? None. But if Iso is Scum, there's a whole bunch of wifom and misdirecting he's just introduced.
Post 499: Buried in this monster of a quote tower is the following response to Gricky:
Well, at least I'll give him credit for FINALLY coming up with something more than just an FoS in one of the first posts of the game to use against Meg.
I think he's grossly misrepping what happened. But what I really love is the comment at the end. Apparently "HAHAHSKGLJEFWROIUSDKLFNVCX:JSF" is something that smarter people would have understood represented everything he just said. I must really be dumb then, because I certainly didn't get anything of the sort from it. In fact, in context it doesn't come across as anything of the sort. This looks an awful lot like an attempt to retcon his "explosive laugh" into something more now that he's had time to come up with extra reasoning for it.
He then says later in the same post:
Up until this point the ONLY point he has made clear was the FoS (which is the one point Gricky mentioned and Iso says isn't the only one). There hasn't been any other points brought against Meg...
Oh, I'm sorry. That's right. We were all supposed to have interpreted his "explosive laugh" for the multiple points against Meg that he finally deigned to clarify for us earlier in THIS POST.
Another gem from later in the same wall-o-text post:
This is the scummiest thing in this post so far. I can only assume that he hoped everyone would forget that his clarification of his Meg case CAME IN THIS VERY POST! So how Gricky was supposed to have understood and stopped harping already is quite beyond my simpleton brain to understand.
Post 537: Holy crap! Are you serious? Anyone up for lynching blatant liars?
The FoS was absolutely the one and only point Iso presented against Meg all through the thread until he finally retconned in some additional reasons in less than 40 posts prior (499)!
That's it. There are plenty of neutral posts by Iso, but nothing that comes across as strong Townie. There are plenty of strong Scum points though.
Iso starts with nothing but an FoS case against Meg. He pushes that case for all it's worth while refusing to expand on it at all. Finally, in post 499 he gives another reason and tries to claim he had that reason MUCH earlier and smart people would have seen it in his "explosive laugh".
He sprinkles in plenty of misrepping, insulting other's intelligence and even a case of outright lying (post 537).
Iso is solidly scummy. Confirm vote: Iso
This one is thanked because it's basically a summary of some of my points against Iso. It also helps support Ahylis being town, as it indicates that he's taking the time to both read the wallposts me and Iso make and go back and do his own research.
I thanked this one for generally the same reasons I thanked the first one.
I also thanked another Ahl post not too long ago, for the same reasons. I'm thanking them because he's summarizing my long fightposts into smaller, bite-sized accurate posts explaining my points. Plus, he's keeping up with the fight, something I don't think scum would do.
So wait a minute. You are accusing both Ahl and Me of not reading/looking through your posts? That's not even possible for me, I've quoted everything you have regarding Meg. Everything. So has Ahl now, and two out of two players claiming to look at your posts for evidence can't find any. So, the burden of proof is on YOU Iso. YOU have to prove that your case exists beyond your gut read in the beginning. If you can't then you've lied again. If you somehow can and we missed it somewhere, then you are just being difficult on purpose. We've both asked you, multiple times, if you have something more than what we've been posting so much about, you need to bring it up. Not doing so is completely anti-town, I don't much care for how you like repeating yourself.
This whole "Burden of Proof" thing feels weak, like stalling and avoiding the question all in one. We've both looked for your extended mysterious case multiple times, and in between all the childish arguments and vague responses you present to me, I can't find your extended Meg argument anywhere. Neither can Ahl.
IIRC, you also refused to repeat yourself in Trisk. You play the same style of game as town and scum, so you using meta to try and free yourself here doesn't work well.
I'll check it later, I'm off to my FNM. I gotta build a modern deck and test it in 3 hours time. Gonna run my old Seismic Swans combo. Might check back later tonight, but don't hold your breath.
@Gricky: do you really think Iso is scum? If you do, explain your case without a wall of text.
I'm sorry guys, but I can't follow these walls with a migraine.
I know you didn't ask me, but I have a nice summary of the Iso case in post #593, just 5 posts up. You don't have to expand the spoiler block for the whole case if you don't want it, I provided the summary outside the spoiler block.
Okay, I'll grant that you aren't simply barning Iso, but you ARE using the same single point case.
I see that Seppel is Thanking EVERY post... except his own.
Are you not allowed to Thank your own posts? Guess I'll find out in a sec as I try to thank this post...
And I stand by that point to, for as I explained it's a good point that stems from Meggido having a scummy sort of mind.
I'm willing to accept it as a point in a case. I don't see it as a super strong point, but I understand that you do. But do you really see it as so strong of a scumtell that by itself, without a single other piece of support, it is enough to convict someone of being Scum?
And yes, there are things that are that strong. PK once got caught in a lie concerning his role claim. That was enough to convict him pretty much by itself. A Cop Scum result from a dead Cop would be enough by itself to convict someone.
I have a favorite scumtell that I keep a look out for which has proved to be extremely good at pinpointing Scum whenever it appears. But by itself, I'd be hesitant to call for someone's head. Spotting it would certainly prompt me to investigate the person further and would likely lead to me voting for them after a review, but by itself is probably not enough. And that's for a scumtell which I have yet to see be wrong.
So when you want to hang Meg on a single scumtell, one which I don't even think is that strong to begin with, I have to wonder just what history you have with it to back up such a rabid adherence to it's infallibility. Do you really think it is that infallible of a scumtell?
Yeah, I was actually able to digest that. But I want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth.
Not infallible, but its strong enough that I'll lynch him for it.
Placeholder post, are you posting in Norwegian and then having it translated to English?
12-11? I'm losing track
Well Guard you've been dropping the card hard logic on people, so Vote: Meggido
Walls of text still being parsed...
12-11? I'm losing track
12-11? I'm losing track
No, but my phone autocorrects to words I use frequently in texting (which phones does), ergo my phoneposts will contain a few non-fitting norwegian words when I'm to tired to notice that I make the mistakes. (Case in point: "Påstår" should have been "Post").
Damnation studios!
Zodiac - Doublevoter - Loss
Starcraft - VT - Loss
The Office - Mafia Rolecop - Win
1984 - VT - Vigged - Loss
Quantum - Lynched D1 Alpha Mafia - Win
Mean Girls - Town Masonizer Replaced into lynch - Loss
Startrek Voyager - Backup JOAT - Loss
Boardgame - VT- Loss
Ghost Story - VT - (replaced in)
Smalltown Animaniacs - Delay Doc - Loss
Kill Bill - One-shot Vig - Loss
Magical Girls -
Mr Potato Head -
Work hard, play casually
I think it's hilarious that people are ignoring me because they only do that when I'm town.
That took me about 2 minutes to find.
kpaca understands me.
Misrep!
You're seriously not reading this game at all.
Seems anecdotal to me. Show me numbers, compared to when I died in the game, etc.
That was because I used to be able to post at work.
Thanks for the casual analysis, buddy.
That's not why I voted Prophylaxis. And Ahlyis continues to misrep me!
Seppel was a claimed Neutral and I was trying to prevent potential "avoid killing these people because they may not be a threat" information from leaking out to the scum.
Again, that's not what I said.
Do you understand how to play Mafia, dude? Serious question.
OH GEE LOOK AT THAT YOU FOUND EXACTLY WHAT I SAID I SAID. JFC. I'm done responding to you.
Oh, wait, one more:
And you have just contradicted yourself. Good day, sir.
But obviously he didn't read my posts because it took him this long to find what I was talking about. After I found it in 2 minutes.
But Ahylis FINALLY found it. Just now. So you're not reading his posts, either.
In addition, that means that you've just admitted to misrepresenting my posts on purpose.
READ.
Then don't try to use it as a point against me.
Yes.
He is continually misrepping my posts, lying through his teeth, slipped that he knew Dragonheart was town before DH was modkilled, tied himself heavily to my first scumspect, and is pulling the exact same song and dance that he did in Homestuck against me when he was scum. I'm sure there's more, but that's the tl;dr version that I can recall at this point.
You have already admitted that you found my multiple points against Megi-whoops, forgot I'm not responding to you.
Dammit Ahlyis, I can't stay away from you. ;o;
So you think lying and Cop results are the only thing strong enough to base a lynch on? Why do you continually ignore the fact that there is more evidence against Megiddo after you have acknowledged such?
Ooh, tell me: Am I exhibiting that "scumtell"?
And now I respond to Gricky.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
if there's anything that anybody would directly like me to address, please let me know so I can give it special consideration.
Can't wait to see!
Nope. Try reading again. Maybe you'll see it this time.
And? And weaker by whose standards?
Wrong! Again! Just because I was votemongering doesn't mean that's ALL I was doing. As you've seen, I've presented many pieces of evidence against you.
I'm not going to acknowledge anything else saying I've only presented one point because I've certainly done more than that.
Prove it.
It's succeeded more than once and the fact that you refuse to acknowledge this is telling. I'm not strictly saying "my case is gut", which you are seeming to imply it is. I have presented many points against the offending parties and you are attempting to discredit me but the point is that if you were actually reading my posts (and I mean READING, not just LOOKING AT) like you claim, then you wouldn't still be attempting to present this as fact.
I have done this. Read. My. Posts. And how is strawmanning a town action in any way?
Because I expected people in this game to know how to read into posts - after all, it's a Specialty. Also, please explain that last sentence.
So what is your read on Meg and why? What do you define a strong case as? Why can't what we've presented be a reasonable case? (Ignoring the part about 1 point because, again, untrue.)
Then you should have seen it. And now you definitely have.
"The argument I made as scum still holds water, even though I was trying to get you mislynched when I made it!"
ARE YOU LISTENING TO YOURSELF? Motive is everything.
I explained it quite thoroughly in Homestuck. I quoted all of the nice little segments for your convenience here. Go on, read it. I'll wait.
Ah, but Aud is also attacking you. So, OMGUS.
Here's an idea: Why don't you do a PBPA on AI instead of just saying "I don't like the fact that he was on the Megiddo wagon"?
Do you really think that half or more of the scumteam would pile on to the same Day 1 wagon? Do you understand how preposterous it is that you are proposing this?
You are attacking all of the low-hanging fruit in addition to myself.
Seppel, claimed Neutral.
Audinho, who, from what I've seen, has never been able to defend himself very well.
AI, who you are claiming is recruitable into the mafia through Seppel, who you continue to fearmonger about.
So again, why are you so sure that Megiddo is town?
I did. Now talk to me.
Okay, so, this has already been proven false.
And this has already been proven false.
And this has already been proven false.
And this has already been proven false.
So what do you have?
Nothing.
Then you'll have to pardon me for not accepting that at face value.
The argument is, and has always been, bad. This is proven simply by the facts that A. my CASE IS NOT CONTINGENT ON MY GUT READ, and B. I have flipped town many, MANY times while relying on my gut. The fact that you are CONTINUING TO ARGUE THIS baffles me.
No. It was an awful argument in Homestuck and it's exactly why you got lynched. You were using it to setup mislynches and that's exactly what you're doing here.
You are contradicting yourself. Yet again. And being a hypocrite. JFC.
Also, do you understand what a strawman is?
Not really. I've presented mindset analysis on you explaining why your case is bunk and simply choose to reference the instance that you and I have shared where this happened and you were scum. I use caps when people aren't reading my posts because IT MAKES THE WORDS BIGGER AND EASIER TO SEE. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it's flailing, so this is, once again, an incredibly weak point from you.
The argument was bad, still is, and you're still using it in a scummy way. End of story. And you're scum for other reasons as well, but you seem to conveniently ignore that.
READ. And you're once again ignoring the fact that my gut is not the only thing I have presented. You KEEP CONTRADICTING YOURSELF and I find it completely unbelievable that more people haven't realized you're scum for it.
HE'S NOT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGING MY CASE.
Really? Have you read ANY of my scum games except Triskelion? Basically, what you've just presented against me is, "I think you might do this as scum." That's ALL you just said. Try again.
That is not what you said.
GUYS HEY I'M FLAILING LOOK AT ME no.
Also, you have completely avoided responding to the quote that you addressed this towards. Good job.
Except I've caught scum. And I did ask people why they weren't voting for him, and you called it votemongering. Or did you forget that so soon?
Yes, ergo, I must be reading your posts. You, however, are not reading mine.
No you haven't. There's nothing more I can say on that except quote every post you've made and point out all the different ways that you HAVEN'T substantiated (which I'm pretty much doing, anyway).
Do you want me to keep responding to your posts? If so, start reading mine.
No. There is no grey. I've explained why this makes you scum. You're not acknowledging it. I don't need to defend myself beyond what I'm doing - your case is terrible.
No. I've illustrated my points as to why you're scum - the fact that you are disagreeing with my read on Meg is just another point against you. You are misrepresenting my argument. All you have done so far is lie, misrep, strawman, and rehash arguments you've used as scum.
What's my motivation for going after weaker players than getting rid of a threat in a veteran? And "because you think you can" isn't a valid reason, because you don't know a damn thing about what I think aside from what I've expressed here.
No, it's a sign of aggravated.
If I wanted DH to hang instead of one of my other scumspects, I would have voted for him. As it was, I didn't feel the case on DH was very strong and I felt the momentum shifted away from a scum player. (Speaking of, thanks, you reminded me that I wanted to look at the players who were voting Meg and switched to DH/led the charge against DH compared to my scum reads.) Why would I question the ability? Do you understand motive interpretation at all? (This post reeks like fish, but I'm going to answer it anyway.) Simply put, if I put myself forward as an option for DH's ability target, then I could push my reads from the previous Day (in conjunction with its use with my role) and if DH didn't target me, then obviously he would have been lying and since that ability would be no good on scum (and he seemed to think it was a weak ability for town) he would have been caught scum and lynched - especially since I think I'm in serious danger of being Nightkilled.
I have.
No, because anything I said could potentially lead back to my scumbuddies, could be perceived as WIFOM, and would generally be ignored. There is no way that with some players of the caliber that they are in this game, I would be acknowledged. My best play as scum in that situation would be to simply not speak.
I would like to thank you for assuaging any suspicion I may have had of Seppel being scum at this point.
See my above rationale for this. Also, I like your evasive defense of "oh it was just sarcasm". I don't think anybody took it as that - and the fact that you choose to defend it in that matter is particularly damning.
No, I'm trying to do my faction a favor.
Because you pretty much begged me to vote for you. I wouldn't turn down a personal request if I felt it was beneficial enough for me to pursue it.
Then use the phrase correctly.
No, but you do so everyone else knows I'm right.
People who argue semantics with me are usually scum. Look at Flame Warriors. You just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper.
* Iso opens arms
How about everything I've presented in this post? That's a start.
"When we filled the balloon with a lot of air once, it popped, therefore the fact that if we don't put too much air into a balloon under ideal circumstances for it to retain its shape is completely invalid now."
That's what you just said.
Riiight. Because "put your vote on this person" is obviously seeking approval instead of telling the person to put their vote on that person. And damn, I'm not the scummiest person alive yet? I'll have to try harder.
Misrep misrep misrep misrep MISREP.
Anyway, you are presenting a situation where "hey Iso if you don't vote for me you're scum" and "hey Iso if you don't vote for Megiddo you're scum". Can you explain how that makes sense from a town perspective?
Also, remind me again how caps = flailing instead of calling out your misrepresentation with frustration since you refuse to read my posts?
Okay.
So, this is a Specialty.
Dragonheart (now confirmed town) seemed to think that this was a high-powered game.
So why don't you think scum have Daytalk?
I'm not switching it. You slipped that you knew DH was town and then you called him scum. You are presenting contradictory reads. You keep slipping.
ROFL.
The votes were reset after the modkill.
And I'm inattentive scum? Foot in mouth, much?
You haven't presented a single non-meta reason that isn't a misrep, lie, or strawman.
And you're attempting to setup more mislynches based on my flip as town. I'm not sure what's so difficult to grasp about my push on you.
Yes I have.
Appeal to sympathy.
You're welcome.
Love,
Iso
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Gricky slipped that he knew DH was town, and then called him scum with me shortly thereafter, then presented a theory that would require DH to be town while calling him scum at the same time.
Is there a reason people still think he's town?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The Family
no u
Love,
Iso
Hey kpaca, what say you to giving me one of those baubles toNight?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Explain why.
Why does at least one of the lurkers have to be scum?
Pretty much everything here.
Explain?
Is your "solid" case on Iso seriously just pure post frequency?
Explain the reason you're voting Megiddo.
I need to think on this statement. It feels really off to me.
Show where.
GrickyTimmick (2) - Iso, Void
Megiddo (2) - Guardman, Infins
Iso (2) - Arcadic, Ahlyis
Zajnet (2) - AsianInvasion, Wheat_Grinder
Void (2) - Wessel, Seppel
With 22 Alive, it's still 12 to lynch.
Zajnet has mentioned his inability to keep up. If I can find a replacment before his return, I will replace him, without prejudice.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
So, again, here we have:
^
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player