The fact that you support Arcadic's blatant misrep is very indicative of your alignment.
Care to explain how my attack on AI is a misrep, or are you just gonna slander me?
@Gricky: The horde of scummy people all simultaneously trying to divert from a Void lynch at every opportunity makes a good point for why Void should die before any of them. They're too desperate to keep him alive, even at the cost of themselves. Void's merely been complying with what's been asked of him because it's the only shot, however minor, of him staying alive.
I fail to see how any observation made here is anything but a strawman. People are suggesting Void is town, yet your case for him being scum is that the people defending him are scum? OF course Void is complying, because if he didn't he'd been lynched long ago.
What exactly again is the reason you find void scummy?
I fail to see how any observation made here is anything but a strawman. People are suggesting Void is town, yet your case for him being scum is that the people defending him are scum? OF course Void is complying, because if he didn't he'd been lynched long ago.
What exactly again is the reason you find void scummy?
See, I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree that they are buddying in an attempt to save Void. More often than not, scum will bus/completely ignore a wagon on a fellow scum. When scummy players are actively speaking out against a lynch, especially with appeals to emotion and no real reason for defense like DRey has, it's more telling of their inside info. Bussing fellow scum is almost always the optimal play. I believe that if Void were scum, he would either already be dead or scummy players wouldn't be clamoring to his side without rhyme or reason.
I was about to type something about how I can't imagine a player being so important to a team that everyone did whatever it took to protect them, but then I remembered Aang in the recent airbender mafia. So nevermind, I guess it happens.
I could accept a Void lynch, I've just got a sneaky suspicion that this isn't the case of scummy players trying to save their scumbuddy. DRey's involvement with the wagon makes me wary.
Alright, I see where you're coming from here, but I'd like to point out that something similar happened in that same Legend of Aang Mafia - DH was so focused on saving Zionite due to the massive amount of power his role held. I believe this is more of the same. There's no other reason why all the scummy people would leap to defend Void. It's just irrational.
Care to explain how my attack on AI is a misrep, or are you just gonna slander me?
It's only slander if it's not true. In that post, you constantly exclude select parts of the sentences in order to make them appear other than they are.
For example, let's compare each of the "translations" to the original post.
If Void is indeed the lynch, I don't think we need an extension on the deadline; any replacements, etc. can catch up during Night. Of course, this presumes that we can find them in a quick manner.
Void's role is very strange and would seem to be obvtown upon cursory examination; there is definitely a similarity to Ged's role in Return to Amistaria. However, his behavior is still very squirrelly.
No, it's not "Void's role is town". It's "Void's role would seem to be obvtown upon cursory examination". Upon closer examination, it doesn't hold up.
AI wants to lynch Void because he's untrustworthy. Why is Void untrustworthy? Is this meta or based of the game? Or is this just a way to push for a lynch AI knows is bad? AI wants to lynch Void despite the mod interaction to confirm his role as trustworthy.
AI wants to lynch Void anyway, because he doesn't trust him. NOT because he believes he's scum, because he doesn't trust him.
I think getting the full use out of his questions, then lynching him is the best way to proceed. This way, we eliminate an untrustworthy player as well as verify how truthful his claim and subsequent information were.
Now, if you look at the previous quotation (the one before this one), then it becomes more obvious. "Why is Void untrustworthy?" Looking at the previous quote, then it's obvious the answer is that "his behaviour is still very squirrelly". With the proximity of the lline answering that question, it's obvious that the quote was cherry-picked in order to make AI's statements appear scummy.
I fail to see how any observation made here is anything but a strawman. People are suggesting Void is town, yet your case for him being scum is that the people defending him are scum? OF course Void is complying, because if he didn't he'd been lynched long ago.
What exactly again is the reason you find void scummy?
Speaking of strawmen, here's one.
You misrepresent my argument to be about "people defending him are scum", when I've made no secret of the fact that his behaviour is scummy, and over a significant period of time.
Now I know why Al was killed... Notice the bolded? Scum killed Al to put the blame on someone else: me. The funniest part is that Seppel don't want to come in the open and say "Hey guys, DRey was protecting Void to give time to the scum to shot Al, let's lynch DRey now", he want someone else to make the connection, so he comes with this crap. I expected much more from you Seppel, this is so blatant is not even funny. This is enough for a case. Let's do it.
The interesting thing is that when Seppel makes a blanket statement about who to look at, DRey's mind immediately jumps to himself - that's not a town perspective on things. He's feeling guilty and scared about something, and flailing ensues as soon as it's tested.
[QUOTE]No, it's not "Void's role is town". It's "Void's role would seem to be obvtown upon cursory examination". Upon closer examination, it doesn't hold up.
That's not at all what AI says. He leaves it open to interpretation, but leads with its a town role. He never explains why, or presents any argument why it could be a non-town role. He's pandering without explaination.
Now, if you look at the previous quotation (the one before this one), then it becomes more obvious. "Why is Void untrustworthy?" Looking at the previous quote, then it's obvious the answer is that "his behaviour is still very squirrelly". With the proximity of the lline answering that question, it's obvious that the quote was cherry-picked in order to make AI's statements appear scummy.
Again, AI should explain WHY Void's behavior is squirrley, not just assume everyone agrees with him. It still doesn't justify bemoaning his lynch, then calling him town, then wanting to lynch him for reasons OTHER THAN BEING SCUMMY. It'd be completely different if the tone of his previous sentences was that of a good lynch, not a bad lynch waiting to happen. It be completely different if he supported the claim of untrustorthy both with facts and evidence that the player he wants lynch is actually scum.
Speaking of strawmen, here's one.
You misrepresent my argument to be about "people defending him are scum", when I've made no secret of the fact that his behaviour is scummy, and over a significant period of time.
I'm misrepping you, because you are making a blanket statement about how the people who are defending Void are scum. Your stance doesn't matter in this statement, the fact you want to paint anyone against Void's lynch as scum is the issue. It's a bad thing to assume that because something doesn't make sense it is therefore scum. Just like its bad to assume that a misinformation role is scum in a specialty.
Seppel's pandering about Void possibly having another ability is also illogical without basis. Void was l-2 claimed, to assume he's lying about everything needs a case behind it, or its just pandering for a lynch without real evidence.
Also, not noticing kpaca in the op is not a scum tell, it is white text which is invisible with the default skin of the forums. Until Alysis died, nothing looked out of place because of the invisi text. Not explaining that it is white text isn't really a tell ether, because other people use different skins.
Seppel's pandering about Void possibly having another ability is also illogical without basis. Void was l-2 claimed, to assume he's lying about everything needs a case behind it, or its just pandering for a lynch without real evidence.
Firstly, what kind of a defence is this? Secondly, I had my eye on you ever since you autocleared Void, + when I was surprised that we were in agreement, which for me is a reason to suspect you.
- And now you're rallying against Void. Imagine that. I'm not defending myself, I'm pointing out the inconsistency in your mindset.
@Cyouni: What doesn't hold up about Void's ability?
I think I've just realized something. In games with more experienced players when I'm wrong, people are willing to follow me, and in games with more experienced players when I'm right, nobody listens to me.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
- And now you're rallying against Void. Imagine that. I'm not defending myself, I'm pointing out the inconsistency in your mindset.
@Cyouni: What doesn't hold up about Void's ability?
I think I've just realized something. In games with more experienced players when I'm wrong, people are willing to follow me, and in games with more experienced players when I'm right, nobody listens to me.
Nobody is listening to me.
This is a thing. Just watch.
There's a difference between listening and agreeing.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I still think he's going to be the lynch tonight and I'm not one to fight windmills. Especially when half the player base wants to see him hang.
This post is terrible. So terrible I find it unlikely you are scum, because you can't possible be this bad. Let me educate you son.
WHEN YOU THINK SOMEONE IS TOWN, AND YOU ARE TOWN, YOU FIGHT AGAINST THEIR LYNCH, YOU DON'T SIT IDDLE AND LET SCUM PROCEED WITH THEIR MISLYNCH NO MATTER HOW INEVITABLE THAT SEENS LIKE.
Is it the SK statement that everyone is looking at?
NO, DON'T ASK THIS STUPID QUESTION. We will discover if there's a SK very soon after one or two nights at most. And even after we discover if there's an SK or not, it won't change our play in any way, it will change how the scum play, but not the town.
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Void's role is exclusively from town, no matter how good your case may be, it's wrong. Stop trying to mislynch a town, you won't succeed scum. :mad1:
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
This post is terrible. So terrible I find it unlikely you are scum, because you can't possible be this bad. Let me educate you son.
WHEN YOU THINK SOMEONE IS TOWN, AND YOU ARE TOWN, YOU FIGHT AGAINST THEIR LYNCH, YOU DON'T SIT IDDLE AND LET SCUM PROCEED WITH THEIR MISLYNCH NO MATTER HOW INEVITABLE THAT SEENS LIKE.
Point taken. But what can I say that hasn't been said before by more eloquent/powerful speakers?
That his role makes no sense on scum? That argument has been shot down time and time again.
Void won't even come to HIS DEFENSE by addressing the case against him. I'm not going to put my neck on the line to defend someone who won't even defend himself.
If it is indeed a mislynch, we get the information of everyone on is wagon plus the people pushing his case.
See, I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree that they are buddying in an attempt to save Void. More often than not, scum will bus/completely ignore a wagon on a fellow scum. When scummy players are actively speaking out against a lynch, especially with appeals to emotion and no real reason for defense like DRey has, it's more telling of their inside info. Bussing fellow scum is almost always the optimal play. I believe that if Void were scum, he would either already be dead or scummy players wouldn't be clamoring to his side without rhyme or reason.
I was about to type something about how I can't imagine a player being so important to a team that everyone did whatever it took to protect them, but then I remembered Aang in the recent airbender mafia. So nevermind, I guess it happens.
I could accept a Void lynch, I've just got a sneaky suspicion that this isn't the case of scummy players trying to save their scumbuddy. DRey's involvement with the wagon makes me wary.
THIS THIS THIS. If I were scum I would never in hell defend Void like that, plus his role is mod-confirmed because of red text. No sane scum would do this trash.
The funniest part is that just because we've seen a game where scum vigorously defended their strong buddy recently, you guys use this example to say "DRey is void buddy" yet you misteriously forget ALL OTHER GAMES YOU HAVE EVER PLAYED WHERE SCUM NEVER DEFEND THEIR BUDDIES LIKE THAT, the vast majority of the games. In fact excluding Avatar I've never seen scum defend their buddies like that. Gimmick just nailed it and is added to my town pile.
In fact I'm so sure Void is town I'm ready to throw my life away to prove my point if you all promise to lynch AI or Seppel next.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
That his role makes no sense on scum? That argument has been shot down time and time again.
This point was mine and so far no one has shot it down. This is not a bastard game (at least I hope so) so scum could not use Void's role in any effective way without being instantly lynched. The role is exclusively town. FACT.
Void won't even come to HIS DEFENSE by addressing the case against him. I'm not going to put my neck on the line to defend someone who won't even defend himself.
This is null, if the mod came and said "DRey is confirmed town" and I ignored cases against me, would you want to lynch me because I'm lazy? Laziness is not a scumtell. In fact I think you know that considering how many times you disappeared in games after some pressure.
If it is indeed a mislynch, we get the information of everyone on is wagon plus the people pushing his case.
This is true, but we can get more info lynching people that have an actual chance of being scum, isn't that a better plan no?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
See, I understand where you're coming from, but I disagree that they are buddying in an attempt to save Void. More often than not, scum will bus/completely ignore a wagon on a fellow scum. When scummy players are actively speaking out against a lynch, especially with appeals to emotion and no real reason for defense like DRey has, it's more telling of their inside info. Bussing fellow scum is almost always the optimal play. I believe that if Void were scum, he would either already be dead or scummy players wouldn't be clamoring to his side without rhyme or reason.
So what does that tell you about me?
Hey DRey, when are you going to finish reading the thread?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hey DRey, when are you going to finish reading the thread?
No, I'm trying to die as fast as possible.
Just lynch me today guys, I just came here to help a bit, and I think I've already acomplished that.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
This is null, if the mod came and said "DRey is confirmed town" and I ignored cases against me, would you want to lynch me because I'm lazy? Laziness is not a scumtell. In fact I think you know that considering how many times you disappeared in games after some pressure.
I take offense to this. I have played many games under extreme pressure. Avatar, Cirque, Ghost Story. The only times I've ever replaced out were due to medical emergencies. I've V/LA before when my dog passed but I didn't replace out. DRey, please don't make assumptions that you have no right making.
@Cyouni: What doesn't hold up about Void's ability?
One, if he's scum, why would he tell the full truth about it? For example, using AI's reference to Ged's role in Return to Amistaria (yeah, I looked up the game when I needed to know what he was referring to), Ged could ask a question about the setup each night, as long as it wasn't specifically about a player. He also had an ability that would make him vanilla after it was used, but we'll leave that aside for comparison's sake.
Comparatively, Void must do it all in-thread, has three shots, must be a yes/no question, and cannot ask anything that would confirm alignment, abilities, or pretty much anything. It's more likely that Void's simply hiding part of it, especially given the fact that now he's just collapsed behind his claim hoping to live.
Second, even if it's solely what Void claimed (unlikely), there's the simple possibility that roles were randomized.
That's not at all what AI says. He leaves it open to interpretation, but leads with its a town role. He never explains why, or presents any argument why it could be a non-town role. He's pandering without explaination.
Behaviour? You know, the thing he wanted to lynch Void for?
Again, AI should explain WHY Void's behavior is squirrley, not just assume everyone agrees with him. It still doesn't justify bemoaning his lynch, then calling him town, then wanting to lynch him for reasons OTHER THAN BEING SCUMMY. It'd be completely different if the tone of his previous sentences was that of a good lynch, not a bad lynch waiting to happen. It be completely different if he supported the claim of untrustorthy both with facts and evidence that the player he wants lynch is actually scum.
I swear you read posts in a vacuum without taking into consideration a player's previous posts.
I'm misrepping you, because you are making a blanket statement about how the people who are defending Void are scum. Your stance doesn't matter in this statement, the fact you want to paint anyone against Void's lynch as scum is the issue. It's a bad thing to assume that because something doesn't make sense it is therefore scum. Just like its bad to assume that a misinformation role is scum in a specialty.
First of all, good for you to admit you're misrepping me.
Second, you're misrepping me again - I stated that scummy people happen to be completely against Void's lynch, I never stated anything about "Anyone against Void's lynch is scummy".
But feel free to keep misrepping me and making yourself look worse by the post.
Seppel's pandering about Void possibly having another ability is also illogical without basis. Void was l-2 claimed, to assume he's lying about everything needs a case behind it, or its just pandering for a lynch without real evidence.
Once again. Do you seriously read posts in a vacuum?
The interesting thing is that when Seppel makes a blanket statement about who to look at, DRey's mind immediately jumps to himself - that's not a town perspective on things. He's feeling guilty and scared about something, and flailing ensues as soon as it's tested.
THIS THIS THIS. If I were scum I would never in hell defend Void like that, plus his role is mod-confirmed because of red text. No sane scum would do this trash.
The funniest part is that just because we've seen a game where scum vigorously defended their strong buddy recently, you guys use this example to say "DRey is void buddy" yet you misteriously forget ALL OTHER GAMES YOU HAVE EVER PLAYED WHERE SCUM NEVER DEFEND THEIR BUDDIES LIKE THAT, the vast majority of the games. In fact excluding Avatar I've never seen scum defend their buddies like that. Gimmick just nailed it and is added to my town pile.
In fact I'm so sure Void is town I'm ready to throw my life away to prove my point if you all promise to lynch AI or Seppel next.
Ok, funny story, DRey is barning a post of mine where I explain how he's scum because he's defending void so badly. He thinks I'm saying he can't be scum because scum would never defend a buddy so badly and give themselves away. This isn't what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that DRey is more than likely scum who knows that Void is town and wants to gain townie points for staying off Voids wagon.
The only analysis that DRey has given for why Void is town is "Because his role doesn't make sense for scum" which I and several others have explained is totally possible for Void's role to be scum. Furthermore, DRey doesn't explain how voids role can only be town, he just states his "fact" over and over again.
So yeah, DRey is barning a post that's calling him scum and he doesn't know it. Does this confirm DRey for not reading? I think it does.
This point was mine and so far no one has shot it down. This is not a bastard game (at least I hope so) so scum could not use Void's role in any effective way without being instantly lynched. The role is exclusively town. FACT.
Actually several people have. In fact, I became so paranoid about whether or not Void's role could actually be scum misinformation that I asked for the test question to be made, in order to determine if the town was receiving false information from the ability or not. I like how you make totally unexplained statements about voids role and proceed to call it a fact though. Cause it's really not.
This is null, if the mod came and said "DRey is confirmed town" and I ignored cases against me, would you want to lynch me because I'm lazy? Laziness is not a scumtell. In fact I think you know that considering how many times you disappeared in games after some pressure.
Given this exact circumstance, I would certainly still want to lynch you, but being Mod confirmed literally trumps any scummy action you could do, unless it's a bastard game of course. Your logic is flawed here, because if you didn't have the mod confirmation I would still want to lynch you for being lazy, or at least pressure you and get some reactions. Seeing as how you aren't mod confirmed in this game, I'm more than willing to lynch you for more than a couple reasons.
That you are scummier for your Void defense. I can't remember you saying anything lengthy or substantial about why Void is a bad lynch, but I do remember you constantly say that we shouldn't lynch void. I rang just as many bells as DRey's posts do, but just subtler, mostly because you aren't screaming it into the thread every chance you get.
Just lynch me today guys, I just came here to help a bit, and I think I've already acomplished that.
Uh, ok, really weird defeatist reaction to very very little pressure.
Why, if you think you are helping, would you want to die? If you truly think you are doing a valuable service to the town, what would dying accomplish.
This reads more of a dare post, like a defeatist version of "lynch me, I dare you!"
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
I think I've just realized something. In games with more experienced players when I'm wrong, people are willing to follow me, and in games with more experienced players when I'm right, nobody listens to me.
Nobody is listening to me.
This is a thing. Just watch.
Remind me about what happened between you, me, and Artyface in Avatar Mafia. I have "magically" forgotten. (Not really.)
Point taken. But what can I say that hasn't been said before by more eloquent/powerful speakers?
That his role makes no sense on scum? That argument has been shot down time and time again.
Void won't even come to HIS DEFENSE by addressing the case against him. I'm not going to put my neck on the line to defend someone who won't even defend himself.
If it is indeed a mislynch, we get the information of everyone on is wagon plus the people pushing his case.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I. Void is a cat trapped in a corner and he lashes out at any criticism that is received. If I were in his position, and I were scum, I would be buddying up to two to three people so that when I was "taken out" the buddies would have suspicion cast upon them.
II. Void has been very receptive and careful about the statements he's made. He's asked time and time again for input into his game. Now, at first I saw this as stalling because we had a deadline. But, now that we don't have a deadline he's moving at the same pace. He's trying to get the most bang for his buck to give us the most information he can before he's lynched.
III. Both of Void's statements (and possibly his third) have come from OTHER players. If Void was indeed caught scum, it wouldn't make any sense to drag this out as long as it is. The longer he drags this out, if he were scum, the more associations he makes and the more information the town gets. If he were scum I think he'd make three inane statements so the town doesn't get ANY facts and then have the town string him up. Instead, he's going down with the ship and trying to give us the most information he can.
I. Void is a cat trapped in a corner and he lashes out at any criticism that is received. If I were in his position, and I were scum, I would be buddying up to two to three people so that when I was "taken out" the buddies would have suspicion cast upon them.
II. Void has been very receptive and careful about the statements he's made. He's asked time and time again for input into his game. Now, at first I saw this as stalling because we had a deadline. But, now that we don't have a deadline he's moving at the same pace. He's trying to get the most bang for his buck to give us the most information he can before he's lynched.
III. Both of Void's statements (and possibly his third) have come from OTHER players. If Void was indeed caught scum, it wouldn't make any sense to drag this out as long as it is. The longer he drags this out, if he were scum, the more associations he makes and the more information the town gets. If he were scum I think he'd make three inane statements so the town doesn't get ANY facts and then have the town string him up. Instead, he's going down with the ship and trying to give us the most information he can.
Not everyone plays the same way as scum. Don't project your rationale onto another player who is very likely of a different alignment. (You are, like in Avatar, obvtown.)
So...is DRey Shalako (protecting scumbuddies) from Magic 2011 or is DRey me (protecting townie AlphaInsidious) from Seasons?
In the first case, we should be lynching Void first, but in the second, Void is town, so we should be hanging DRey. After all, he did ask really nicely.
Void's role is exclusively from town, no matter how good your case may be, it's wrong. Stop trying to mislynch a town, you won't succeed scum. :mad1:
I keep hearing this, so I sat down and thought about it. Why would scum have this role? What benefit would it give them?
And it was pretty easy to come up with an answer. It allows them to SK/neutral hunt. Look at the question Void asked: How many non-town are there? Scum know the number of scum, and so it helps them figure out the number of neutrals. The likely third question would be asking if there's an SK. That helps scum just as much.
In short, modgaming the ability is even more useless than usual because it makes sense for scum too.
THIS THIS THIS. If I were scum I would never in hell defend Void like that, plus his role is mod-confirmed because of red text. No sane scum would do this trash.
Except that it has happened; that's the point. Heck, it's probably easier in a specialty because you might convince a few town to rally behind as well if you have enough people championing it.
That you are scummier for your Void defense. I can't remember you saying anything lengthy or substantial about why Void is a bad lynch, but I do remember you constantly say that we shouldn't lynch void. I rang just as many bells as DRey's posts do, but just subtler, mostly because you aren't screaming it into the thread every chance you get.
So you went from "everyone doing this is town" to "everyone but Iso doing this is town. Because it makes him scummier." Cool.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So you went from "everyone doing this is town" to "everyone but Iso doing this is town. Because it makes him scummier." Cool.
@AI: It varies, really.
Clearly, just like DRey, you are not understanding the argument. I'm not saying that you guys are defending Void because he's a powerful scum role and you are trying to protect him, I'm saying that you both defending Void is suspicious because you call him town without solid reasoning, making it look like you know he will flip town and you are trying to stay off the lynch to gain town cred.
Never did I say that anyone defending Void is town. In fact, quite the opposite, everyone defending Void is scum, but I'm thinking Void is town because of it. DRey can't come up with a good reason for not lynching Void except for "Guys, he's town, let's not do this". On top of that, he's acting really scummy in general, plus you kick in a "Void town don't!" post or two, and we all know what my read on you is. Two scummy players telling me not to lynch a player and I know that at least you aren't about to go buddying with players on the lynch, you are a bus man true and true. Plus, bussing happens way more often than actual protection, using Avatar as an example is a poor comparison due to the inherent differences between the games.
So add it all up: The scum wouldn't buddy when a lynch is a sure thing, two scummy players are advocating the stoppage of the lynch without really saying why and it looks as if said scummy players are carefully avoiding the lynch because they know it's a mislynch. That's what I'm getting at.
You aren't being singled out Iso. I thought what I was saying was pretty clear, yet DRey and Iso both have misinterpreted it pretty badly. Cyouni got it right away, right? What's so hard to understand?
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
Ok, funny story, DRey is barning a post of mine where I explain how he's scum because he's defending void so badly. He thinks I'm saying he can't be scum because scum would never defend a buddy so badly and give themselves away. This isn't what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that DRey is more than likely scum and knows that Void is town and wants to gain townie points for staying off Voids wagon.
Oh dear lord I think I just realized something I missed.
THIS THIS THIS. If I were scum I would never in hell defend Void like that, plus his role is mod-confirmed because of red text. No sane scum would do this trash.
Alright. So now, everyone, tell me what massive assumption this makes?
DRey makes an argument predicated on Void being scum. Look at it. "If I were scum, I wouldn't defend Void like that". DRey's arguing that if he were scum, he wouldn't protect his scumbuddy.
His scumbuddy.
I'll leave that there for a second.
Alright, good. It's "if DRey was scum" in the argument, yet Void being scum is immediately assumed. It's not even "if we were both scum". Void is never assumed as anything except scum.
Ergo, Void is scum and DRey is his scumbuddy.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I'll be here all Day.
I. Void is a cat trapped in a corner and he lashes out at any criticism that is received. If I were in his position, and I were scum, I would be buddying up to two to three people so that when I was "taken out" the buddies would have suspicion cast upon them.
II. Void has been very receptive and careful about the statements he's made. He's asked time and time again for input into his game. Now, at first I saw this as stalling because we had a deadline. But, now that we don't have a deadline he's moving at the same pace. He's trying to get the most bang for his buck to give us the most information he can before he's lynched.
III. Both of Void's statements (and possibly his third) have come from OTHER players. If Void was indeed caught scum, it wouldn't make any sense to drag this out as long as it is. The longer he drags this out, if he were scum, the more associations he makes and the more information the town gets. If he were scum I think he'd make three inane statements so the town doesn't get ANY facts and then have the town string him up. Instead, he's going down with the ship and trying to give us the most information he can.
I can't agree with your argument, but I can respect it.
You aren't being singled out Iso. I thought what I was saying was pretty clear, yet DRey and Iso both have misinterpreted it pretty badly. Cyouni got it right away, right? What's so hard to understand?
Void is town. Void need to ask questions. No one who is town should be voting him. Do not fear Void, if you are quickhammered we will have caught scum in our hands. Also do not rush for your questions let's continue discussion about it, everyone post a suggestion for a good question.
my idea: "there's a cult on this game?"
In fact we have already got one.
This is a scum post. unvote, vote Infinis.
Ah there's you're response to Seppel's case.
Also @Drey "This post is all wrong. This man needs to die sooner than later. The "first to mention SK" only work on players that don't know this tell, Void certainly knows it, plus his role is confirmed town, why do you want to lynch confirmed town so much?"
How is Void mod-confirmed town? Is void the first to mention an SK, because I haven't looked it up, did you? I've never played with VOid, that I can remember, so how can I assume he knows that tell?
How about this theory, since we're playing shot in the dark: You (Drey) have played with me. You know I'm a good target since I make "strange" posts. You want your buddy to live, so go from: 1) I'm not reading 2) I'll sheep 3) What's the best wagon that is out there to: Clearing Void completely to the point of martyrdom and creating a new wagon. Which is more likely you are town or scum protecting a buddy?
...
As to my indecision about Void. He was initially town in my mind. Then a few iffy posts, nothing to write home about. Then Seppel's case. It's strong. Void practically ignores the case. Void L-2. Void claims and I think the ability is town. So now I don't know. Based on a case and avoidance of said case, Void is scum. Based on claim and recent play, Void is town. Can you see my dilemna?
@AI Seppel is town, neutral or scum. He is looking for his friend/lover/whatnot. First he claims that he and his friend both need to live for him to win, second he claims to just have to find said friend. This flip/flop eliminates Town as Seppel's alignment.
Seppel being scum is redundant. Why? Because he finds you and wins, why help his team win?
Seppel claims to have no information about his friend's alignment. You claim to be Seppel's friend. You haven't mentioned any mod confirmed information about Seppel so I assume the reverse applies to Seppel.
Therefore Seppel is neutral. As to your (AI's) alignment, Seppel has to play to the alignment he thinks you are. He needs your side to win if you aren't a neutral. (Amusingly, you could be the SK)
Now to his claim. He just has to find you, then he wins, is ridiculously broken. Seppel demonstrated just this with his play. If you have to survive, Seppel is gambling big. Gambling against SK, mafia, vig, et al. killing roles.
...
Finally, I've semi-retired from making big cases. I addressed this in thread. You slave away to be ignored and/or insulted, I'm not having it unless we're down to a manageable amount of players. I'll do what you guys do, read a bit and then go with gut.
As to my last cryptic line, maybe someone telegraphed kpaca kill, that person should be cleared for now, since I thought kpaca was cult leader too. Best case we've caught the SK, worst case we semi-clear scum. That's my thinking.
I'm amused that [Shalako], of all people, are talking about terrible reasoning. "Hey, PF's RVS daykill must be serious, therefore I should shoot him to prove that I have a daykill!"
On second thought, despite how annoying he is, I want to leave DRey alive as long as possible (read: not lynching Day 2) so that he'll spew his inside information all over the thread.
He's done it twice already, with Seppel and Void. I want more.
Oh dear lord I think I just realized something I missed.
Alright. So now, everyone, tell me what massive assumption this makes?
DRey makes an argument predicated on Void being scum. Look at it. "If I were scum, I wouldn't defend Void like that". DRey's arguing that if he were scum, he wouldn't protect his scumbuddy.
His scumbuddy.
I'll leave that there for a second.
Alright, good. It's "if DRey was scum" in the argument, yet Void being scum is immediately assumed. It's not even "if we were both scum". Void is never assumed as anything except scum.
Ergo, Void is scum and DRey is his scumbuddy.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I'll be here all Day.
Garbage. DRey is predicating his statement with the qualifier "if Void and I were scum" because that is the accusation he was defending himself from. If DRey is scum, Void still isn't.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Garbage. DRey is predicating his statement with the qualifier "if Void and I were scum" because that is the accusation he was defending himself from. If DRey is scum, Void still isn't.
Mhm.
That's if, of course, DRey were actually predicating his statement with that. He, instead, predicates it solely with the qualifier "if I were scum" when the sentence requires "if Void and I were scum".
DRey makes an argument predicated on Void being scum. Look at it. "If I were scum, I wouldn't defend Void like that". DRey's arguing that if he were scum, he wouldn't protect his scumbuddy.
His scumbuddy.
I'll leave that there for a second.
Alright, good. It's "if DRey was scum" in the argument, yet Void being scum is immediately assumed. It's not even "if we were both scum". Void is never assumed as anything except scum.
Ergo, Void is scum and DRey is his scumbuddy.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I'll be here all Day.
If I ever get annoyed with you in the future, remind me of this game. Absolutely brilliant.
On second thought, despite how annoying he is, I want to leave DRey alive as long as possible (read: not lynching Day 2) so that he'll spew his inside information all over the thread.
He's done it twice already, with Seppel and Void. I want more.
Now that he knows you're watching for it, he could lay false inside info, so I don't think it would help to leave him alive; it would just make things WIFOMy.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Now that he knows you're watching for it, he could lay false inside info, so I don't think it would help to leave him alive; it would just make things WIFOMy.
Mm, perhaps you're right with that. It's a lot harder to spot fake inside information than other things.
Except it was implied because he was defending himself against that accusation.
You're slipping. Neither this nor the previous point is taking any effort to shred.
He quoted a post of Gricky's that was rejecting the possibility of both of them being scum, in order to barn the sentiment. That's obvious given the quoted post. To wit, it's where he says "THIS THIS THIS". Yet DRey's assumption never even remotely considers the possibility of Void being town. He even makes the line "if I were scum" explicit, but specifically excludes Void from that statement.
Come, dig a bigger hole for yourself and leap in. I don't think I'll be waiting long.
---
So let's see what we've got. Void, Iso, Arcadic, and DRey have all linked themselves together. Each of the four proclaims Void as town, so much so that they're willing to ignore any consequences to themselves. DRey in particular has been trying to get anyone, including himself, lynched in order to save Void.
I really want to know what importance Void holds to the scum that they're willing to go so far.
Oh also also I really am a neutral so Seppel is probably lying, considering I'm neutral survivor I highly doubt there are two of us having alternate extra win cons. Mine involves handing out baubles that do nothing other than signify I gave it to you, and I have to reach end game with all end gamed players having one. It seems unlikely that Seppel would be a survivor who has to find one person. Not only is that swingy as hell, as he loses if that person dies, but yeah. Just seems unlikely to me. So if we don't lynch Megiddo for self urination we should lynch Seppel for probably lying/we don't have to keep asking questions about his role.
I'm seeing a CC (not a full on CC, but still a CC nonetheless) and Kpaca calling him scum. I am aware this does not confirm Seppel as scum, but I am willing to trust Kpaca (since his claim is what he said it was) fully. I don't have my vote on Seppel since you said Seppel was a non issue.
I'd just go with the SK statement. "There is a Serial Killer in this game". That seems to be a pretty popular choice among the town. I'm trying to think of anything else that would be useful, but alas, I'm drawing a blank based on your restrictions.
Also, give us some reads before you die.
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Who was that masked man anyway?
MTGSalvation: Now with more Drama than Season 5 of Supernatural!
You forgot Cyouni.
You know what it doesn't confirm?
* His alignment
* Whether or not he has other abilities
I fail to see how any observation made here is anything but a strawman. People are suggesting Void is town, yet your case for him being scum is that the people defending him are scum? OF course Void is complying, because if he didn't he'd been lynched long ago.
What exactly again is the reason you find void scummy?
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
The two bolded parts feel incongruous.
When are you going to respond to my case on Void?
It's only slander if it's not true. In that post, you constantly exclude select parts of the sentences in order to make them appear other than they are.
For example, let's compare each of the "translations" to the original post.
Speaking of strawmen, here's one.
You misrepresent my argument to be about "people defending him are scum", when I've made no secret of the fact that his behaviour is scummy, and over a significant period of time.
Seppel also makes a good point here.
The interesting thing is that when Seppel makes a blanket statement about who to look at, DRey's mind immediately jumps to himself - that's not a town perspective on things. He's feeling guilty and scared about something, and flailing ensues as soon as it's tested.
That's not at all what AI says. He leaves it open to interpretation, but leads with its a town role. He never explains why, or presents any argument why it could be a non-town role. He's pandering without explaination.
Again, AI should explain WHY Void's behavior is squirrley, not just assume everyone agrees with him. It still doesn't justify bemoaning his lynch, then calling him town, then wanting to lynch him for reasons OTHER THAN BEING SCUMMY. It'd be completely different if the tone of his previous sentences was that of a good lynch, not a bad lynch waiting to happen. It be completely different if he supported the claim of untrustorthy both with facts and evidence that the player he wants lynch is actually scum.
I'm misrepping you, because you are making a blanket statement about how the people who are defending Void are scum. Your stance doesn't matter in this statement, the fact you want to paint anyone against Void's lynch as scum is the issue. It's a bad thing to assume that because something doesn't make sense it is therefore scum. Just like its bad to assume that a misinformation role is scum in a specialty.
Seppel's pandering about Void possibly having another ability is also illogical without basis. Void was l-2 claimed, to assume he's lying about everything needs a case behind it, or its just pandering for a lynch without real evidence.
Also, not noticing kpaca in the op is not a scum tell, it is white text which is invisible with the default skin of the forums. Until Alysis died, nothing looked out of place because of the invisi text. Not explaining that it is white text isn't really a tell ether, because other people use different skins.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU
ALSO THIS IS MY 10,000th POST
- And now you're rallying against Void. Imagine that. I'm not defending myself, I'm pointing out the inconsistency in your mindset.
@Cyouni: What doesn't hold up about Void's ability?
I think I've just realized something. In games with more experienced players when I'm wrong, people are willing to follow me, and in games with more experienced players when I'm right, nobody listens to me.
Nobody is listening to me.
This is a thing. Just watch.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
There's a difference between listening and agreeing.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
FWIW, Kpaca did counter claim Seppel as the EXACT role the Kpaca said he was. Seppel is scum. Don't let him live past tomorrow.
Yeah, I do.
I don't think Void is scum.
I still think he's going to be the lynch tonight and I'm not one to fight windmills. Especially when half the player base wants to see him hang.
That's not what kpaca said.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
To confirm the answers are not misleading.
So now you try smearing me?
We get conformation either way. We know the answer. Ask it either way you like. How the heck am I scummy for trying to validate Charms answers?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
WHEN YOU THINK SOMEONE IS TOWN, AND YOU ARE TOWN, YOU FIGHT AGAINST THEIR LYNCH, YOU DON'T SIT IDDLE AND LET SCUM PROCEED WITH THEIR MISLYNCH NO MATTER HOW INEVITABLE THAT SEENS LIKE.
NO, DON'T ASK THIS STUPID QUESTION. We will discover if there's a SK very soon after one or two nights at most. And even after we discover if there's an SK or not, it won't change our play in any way, it will change how the scum play, but not the town.
What Kpaca said?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Point taken. But what can I say that hasn't been said before by more eloquent/powerful speakers?
That his role makes no sense on scum? That argument has been shot down time and time again.
Void won't even come to HIS DEFENSE by addressing the case against him. I'm not going to put my neck on the line to defend someone who won't even defend himself.
If it is indeed a mislynch, we get the information of everyone on is wagon plus the people pushing his case.
The funniest part is that just because we've seen a game where scum vigorously defended their strong buddy recently, you guys use this example to say "DRey is void buddy" yet you misteriously forget ALL OTHER GAMES YOU HAVE EVER PLAYED WHERE SCUM NEVER DEFEND THEIR BUDDIES LIKE THAT, the vast majority of the games. In fact excluding Avatar I've never seen scum defend their buddies like that. Gimmick just nailed it and is added to my town pile.
In fact I'm so sure Void is town I'm ready to throw my life away to prove my point if you all promise to lynch AI or Seppel next.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
This is null, if the mod came and said "DRey is confirmed town" and I ignored cases against me, would you want to lynch me because I'm lazy? Laziness is not a scumtell. In fact I think you know that considering how many times you disappeared in games after some pressure.
This is true, but we can get more info lynching people that have an actual chance of being scum, isn't that a better plan no?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
So what does that tell you about me?
Hey DRey, when are you going to finish reading the thread?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Just lynch me today guys, I just came here to help a bit, and I think I've already acomplished that.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I take offense to this. I have played many games under extreme pressure. Avatar, Cirque, Ghost Story. The only times I've ever replaced out were due to medical emergencies. I've V/LA before when my dog passed but I didn't replace out. DRey, please don't make assumptions that you have no right making.
And it's also quite amusing that he's ignoring any attempt to post the meta case on me because he knows he'll be ripped to shreds.
One, if he's scum, why would he tell the full truth about it? For example, using AI's reference to Ged's role in Return to Amistaria (yeah, I looked up the game when I needed to know what he was referring to), Ged could ask a question about the setup each night, as long as it wasn't specifically about a player. He also had an ability that would make him vanilla after it was used, but we'll leave that aside for comparison's sake.
Comparatively, Void must do it all in-thread, has three shots, must be a yes/no question, and cannot ask anything that would confirm alignment, abilities, or pretty much anything. It's more likely that Void's simply hiding part of it, especially given the fact that now he's just collapsed behind his claim hoping to live.
Second, even if it's solely what Void claimed (unlikely), there's the simple possibility that roles were randomized.
Really. Except for the fact kpaca wasn't even counterclaiming.
Why not?
Seppel is scum. And he's wrong. You know, not scum trying to mislynch town, wrong.
It's patently obvious DRey knows Seppel's not mafia.
Behaviour? You know, the thing he wanted to lynch Void for?
I swear you read posts in a vacuum without taking into consideration a player's previous posts.
First of all, good for you to admit you're misrepping me.
Second, you're misrepping me again - I stated that scummy people happen to be completely against Void's lynch, I never stated anything about "Anyone against Void's lynch is scummy".
But feel free to keep misrepping me and making yourself look worse by the post.
Once again. Do you seriously read posts in a vacuum?
This. Spot on. Nice catch sir, I overlooked this.
Ok, funny story, DRey is barning a post of mine where I explain how he's scum because he's defending void so badly. He thinks I'm saying he can't be scum because scum would never defend a buddy so badly and give themselves away. This isn't what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that DRey is more than likely scum who knows that Void is town and wants to gain townie points for staying off Voids wagon.
The only analysis that DRey has given for why Void is town is "Because his role doesn't make sense for scum" which I and several others have explained is totally possible for Void's role to be scum. Furthermore, DRey doesn't explain how voids role can only be town, he just states his "fact" over and over again.
So yeah, DRey is barning a post that's calling him scum and he doesn't know it. Does this confirm DRey for not reading? I think it does.
Actually several people have. In fact, I became so paranoid about whether or not Void's role could actually be scum misinformation that I asked for the test question to be made, in order to determine if the town was receiving false information from the ability or not. I like how you make totally unexplained statements about voids role and proceed to call it a fact though. Cause it's really not.
Given this exact circumstance, I would certainly still want to lynch you, but being Mod confirmed literally trumps any scummy action you could do, unless it's a bastard game of course. Your logic is flawed here, because if you didn't have the mod confirmation I would still want to lynch you for being lazy, or at least pressure you and get some reactions. Seeing as how you aren't mod confirmed in this game, I'm more than willing to lynch you for more than a couple reasons.
That you are scummier for your Void defense. I can't remember you saying anything lengthy or substantial about why Void is a bad lynch, but I do remember you constantly say that we shouldn't lynch void. I rang just as many bells as DRey's posts do, but just subtler, mostly because you aren't screaming it into the thread every chance you get.
Uh, ok, really weird defeatist reaction to very very little pressure.
Why, if you think you are helping, would you want to die? If you truly think you are doing a valuable service to the town, what would dying accomplish.
This reads more of a dare post, like a defeatist version of "lynch me, I dare you!"
He's scum.
Remind me about what happened between you, me, and Artyface in Avatar Mafia. I have "magically" forgotten. (Not really.)
This man understands the situation.
Before you go all in, make sure you understand how to play the game.
I asked WHEN, not if you were.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
People were willing to run you up, and then follow my lead when I turned momentum away from the Zionite wagon. And I was wrong in both of those moves.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll give you three points:
I. Void is a cat trapped in a corner and he lashes out at any criticism that is received. If I were in his position, and I were scum, I would be buddying up to two to three people so that when I was "taken out" the buddies would have suspicion cast upon them.
II. Void has been very receptive and careful about the statements he's made. He's asked time and time again for input into his game. Now, at first I saw this as stalling because we had a deadline. But, now that we don't have a deadline he's moving at the same pace. He's trying to get the most bang for his buck to give us the most information he can before he's lynched.
III. Both of Void's statements (and possibly his third) have come from OTHER players. If Void was indeed caught scum, it wouldn't make any sense to drag this out as long as it is. The longer he drags this out, if he were scum, the more associations he makes and the more information the town gets. If he were scum I think he'd make three inane statements so the town doesn't get ANY facts and then have the town string him up. Instead, he's going down with the ship and trying to give us the most information he can.
So when you talk about "people" in these games, you're not talking about "experienced players." Gotcha.
Not everyone plays the same way as scum. Don't project your rationale onto another player who is very likely of a different alignment. (You are, like in Avatar, obvtown.)
So...is DRey Shalako (protecting scumbuddies) from Magic 2011 or is DRey me (protecting townie AlphaInsidious) from Seasons?
In the first case, we should be lynching Void first, but in the second, Void is town, so we should be hanging DRey. After all, he did ask really nicely.
I keep hearing this, so I sat down and thought about it. Why would scum have this role? What benefit would it give them?
And it was pretty easy to come up with an answer. It allows them to SK/neutral hunt. Look at the question Void asked: How many non-town are there? Scum know the number of scum, and so it helps them figure out the number of neutrals. The likely third question would be asking if there's an SK. That helps scum just as much.
In short, modgaming the ability is even more useless than usual because it makes sense for scum too.
Except that it has happened; that's the point. Heck, it's probably easier in a specialty because you might convince a few town to rally behind as well if you have enough people championing it.
So you went from "everyone doing this is town" to "everyone but Iso doing this is town. Because it makes him scummier." Cool.
@AI: It varies, really.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Clearly, just like DRey, you are not understanding the argument. I'm not saying that you guys are defending Void because he's a powerful scum role and you are trying to protect him, I'm saying that you both defending Void is suspicious because you call him town without solid reasoning, making it look like you know he will flip town and you are trying to stay off the lynch to gain town cred.
Never did I say that anyone defending Void is town. In fact, quite the opposite, everyone defending Void is scum, but I'm thinking Void is town because of it. DRey can't come up with a good reason for not lynching Void except for "Guys, he's town, let's not do this". On top of that, he's acting really scummy in general, plus you kick in a "Void town don't!" post or two, and we all know what my read on you is. Two scummy players telling me not to lynch a player and I know that at least you aren't about to go buddying with players on the lynch, you are a bus man true and true. Plus, bussing happens way more often than actual protection, using Avatar as an example is a poor comparison due to the inherent differences between the games.
So add it all up: The scum wouldn't buddy when a lynch is a sure thing, two scummy players are advocating the stoppage of the lynch without really saying why and it looks as if said scummy players are carefully avoiding the lynch because they know it's a mislynch. That's what I'm getting at.
You aren't being singled out Iso. I thought what I was saying was pretty clear, yet DRey and Iso both have misinterpreted it pretty badly. Cyouni got it right away, right? What's so hard to understand?
Alright. So now, everyone, tell me what massive assumption this makes?
DRey makes an argument predicated on Void being scum. Look at it. "If I were scum, I wouldn't defend Void like that". DRey's arguing that if he were scum, he wouldn't protect his scumbuddy.
His scumbuddy.
I'll leave that there for a second.
Alright, good. It's "if DRey was scum" in the argument, yet Void being scum is immediately assumed. It's not even "if we were both scum". Void is never assumed as anything except scum.
Ergo, Void is scum and DRey is his scumbuddy.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. I'll be here all Day.
I can't agree with your argument, but I can respect it.
Backhanded compliment!
Ah there's you're response to Seppel's case.
Also @Drey "This post is all wrong. This man needs to die sooner than later. The "first to mention SK" only work on players that don't know this tell, Void certainly knows it, plus his role is confirmed town, why do you want to lynch confirmed town so much?"
How is Void mod-confirmed town? Is void the first to mention an SK, because I haven't looked it up, did you? I've never played with VOid, that I can remember, so how can I assume he knows that tell?
How about this theory, since we're playing shot in the dark: You (Drey) have played with me. You know I'm a good target since I make "strange" posts. You want your buddy to live, so go from: 1) I'm not reading 2) I'll sheep 3) What's the best wagon that is out there to: Clearing Void completely to the point of martyrdom and creating a new wagon. Which is more likely you are town or scum protecting a buddy?
...
As to my indecision about Void. He was initially town in my mind. Then a few iffy posts, nothing to write home about. Then Seppel's case. It's strong. Void practically ignores the case. Void L-2. Void claims and I think the ability is town. So now I don't know. Based on a case and avoidance of said case, Void is scum. Based on claim and recent play, Void is town. Can you see my dilemna?
@AI Seppel is town, neutral or scum. He is looking for his friend/lover/whatnot. First he claims that he and his friend both need to live for him to win, second he claims to just have to find said friend. This flip/flop eliminates Town as Seppel's alignment.
Seppel being scum is redundant. Why? Because he finds you and wins, why help his team win?
Seppel claims to have no information about his friend's alignment. You claim to be Seppel's friend. You haven't mentioned any mod confirmed information about Seppel so I assume the reverse applies to Seppel.
Therefore Seppel is neutral. As to your (AI's) alignment, Seppel has to play to the alignment he thinks you are. He needs your side to win if you aren't a neutral. (Amusingly, you could be the SK)
Now to his claim. He just has to find you, then he wins, is ridiculously broken. Seppel demonstrated just this with his play. If you have to survive, Seppel is gambling big. Gambling against SK, mafia, vig, et al. killing roles.
...
Finally, I've semi-retired from making big cases. I addressed this in thread. You slave away to be ignored and/or insulted, I'm not having it unless we're down to a manageable amount of players. I'll do what you guys do, read a bit and then go with gut.
As to my last cryptic line, maybe someone telegraphed kpaca kill, that person should be cleared for now, since I thought kpaca was cult leader too. Best case we've caught the SK, worst case we semi-clear scum. That's my thinking.
12-11? I'm losing track
He's done it twice already, with Seppel and Void. I want more.
Garbage. DRey is predicating his statement with the qualifier "if Void and I were scum" because that is the accusation he was defending himself from. If DRey is scum, Void still isn't.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That's if, of course, DRey were actually predicating his statement with that. He, instead, predicates it solely with the qualifier "if I were scum" when the sentence requires "if Void and I were scum".
If I ever get annoyed with you in the future, remind me of this game. Absolutely brilliant.
Now that he knows you're watching for it, he could lay false inside info, so I don't think it would help to leave him alive; it would just make things WIFOMy.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Mm, perhaps you're right with that. It's a lot harder to spot fake inside information than other things.
You're slipping. Neither this nor the previous point is taking any effort to shred.
He quoted a post of Gricky's that was rejecting the possibility of both of them being scum, in order to barn the sentiment. That's obvious given the quoted post. To wit, it's where he says "THIS THIS THIS". Yet DRey's assumption never even remotely considers the possibility of Void being town. He even makes the line "if I were scum" explicit, but specifically excludes Void from that statement.
Come, dig a bigger hole for yourself and leap in. I don't think I'll be waiting long.
---
So let's see what we've got. Void, Iso, Arcadic, and DRey have all linked themselves together. Each of the four proclaims Void as town, so much so that they're willing to ignore any consequences to themselves. DRey in particular has been trying to get anyone, including himself, lynched in order to save Void.
I really want to know what importance Void holds to the scum that they're willing to go so far.
I see no discussion about statements and others now confused on whether to vote me or not.
Infinis:
Your convicion towards me was much more believable than why you believe I am town.
DRey:
If you are indeed town, then please slow down and read the game. (Not that you will see this post right away :P)
Iso:
What did Kpaca say then?
Here is his post:
I'm seeing a CC (not a full on CC, but still a CC nonetheless) and Kpaca calling him scum. I am aware this does not confirm Seppel as scum, but I am willing to trust Kpaca (since his claim is what he said it was) fully. I don't have my vote on Seppel since you said Seppel was a non issue.
I have no reason to believe this is a fake.
What statement am I using and quick.
Wow, for serious?
I'd just go with the SK statement. "There is a Serial Killer in this game". That seems to be a pretty popular choice among the town. I'm trying to think of anything else that would be useful, but alas, I'm drawing a blank based on your restrictions.
Also, give us some reads before you die.
We've spun our wheels for long enough. How we can finally move on with the game.
So, does this end the day, or do you know? I figure it would just kill Void and we'd still have to lynch someone.
We still get to lynch toDay.
My vote is on asking about the SK.
Could you warn a guy next time, please?
There is a SK in this game
I hinted pretty strongly that I wanted you dead because I am convinced that you are scum. You haven't done anything to dissuade that opinion.
Not sure if the question will count; depends on how Charm resolves Day actions.
Scum team:
Seppel (You cased another townie good job!)
Audinho
Megiddo
Infinis
Wessel